[meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering al if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we pay a good price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary meteorite: we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that look like meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and lunar come from those, but to the fact that some old fall are in sales now for more than what they were when found this is also true; most of the nomade keep there stone because we can't pay the price they are asking, take care aziz h The question is will dealers pay more if they can't make any money on specimens? Seems like you can buy old falls for as much or less than the new stuff coming out of the Sahara. Unless it is something like lunar, martain or ultra rare material specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: habibi abdelaziz To: meteorite list Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan business meteorite is suffering hello all price are high very high, , there is no more meteorite found like old time; you want to have meteorite in sahara desert you have to pay more ; and more and more so simpley and so sadly ; the field are drying , so simple aziz h __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering al if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we pay a good price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary meteorite: we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that look like meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and lunar come from those, but to the fact that some old fall are in sales now for more than what they were when found this is also true; most of the nomade keep there stone because we can't pay the price they are asking, take care aziz h The question is will dealers pay more if they can't make any money on specimens? Seems like you can buy old falls for as much or less than the new stuff coming out of the Sahara. Unless it is something like lunar, martain or ultra rare material specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: habibi abdelaziz To: meteorite list Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan business meteorite is suffering hello all price are high very high, , there is no more meteorite found like old time; you want to have meteorite in sahara desert you have to pay more ; and more and more so simpley and so sadly ; the field are drying , so simple aziz h __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering al if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we pay a good price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary meteorite: we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that look like meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and lunar come from those, but to the fact that some old fall are in sales now for more than what they were when found this is also true; most of the nomade keep there stone because we can't pay the price they are asking, take care aziz h The question is will dealers pay more if they can't make any money on specimens? Seems like you can buy old falls for as much or less than the new stuff coming out of the Sahara. Unless it is something like lunar, martain or ultra rare material specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: habibi abdelaziz To: meteorite list Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan business meteorite is suffering hello all price are high very high, , there is no more meteorite found like old time; you want to have meteorite in sahara desert you have to pay more ; and more and more so simpley and so sadly ; the field are drying , so simple aziz h
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
I've been saying it for years - buy low as possible, sell high. Go on open market, buy a $10 micromount. Cut that 1-inch square micro into 10 smaller squares and sell each square for $5. If you cannot afford a saw, whack the micro with a hammer and sell each piece for $5. Bingo, you have just quintupled your money before expenses and overhead. Do this on 50-100 micros a month and your rent is paid. Lather rinse repeat. There is so much profit potential in meteorites - even with the wholesale prices climbing. The key is adjusting one's business model. The old-school business model says to take that 1-inch square micro you bought for $10 and resell it (intact) to a single buyer for $20 or $25. That same business model also says to do it on eBay where now give almost 30% of your gross revenue to a multi-billion-dollar corporation. If people cling to that business model, they will watch their profits dwindle to the level they could make selling stamps, Pokemon cards, or anything other collectible. Embrace the Bessey Speck! ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/11, bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering al if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we pay a good price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary meteorite: we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that look like meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and lunar come from those, but to the fact
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
Hi All, Gentlemen and Ladies...I doubt that the increase in price American and European dealers are being asked to pay has anything to do with the nomads developing a heightened sense of value, or an increased skill in bargainingor a paucity of meteorites. I believe what has happened to cause the increase in price and the lack of availabilty in your dealings with North West African wholesalers is that they have discovered that they can market directly to retail buyers all over the world with a stroke of a finger.. The Internet makes it easy and cheap for them to find collectors and sell retail. The result is that they no longer need to sell material, especially choice items, at wholesale to you retail dealers. As all who know me are aware, I am a collector/buyer and have never sold a meteorite. I hadn't bought my first half dozen meteorites online before I was contacted directly by wholesale dealers out of Africa wishing to sell me specimens. I received several offers in the past couple of days.. Folks, The wholesalers have become retailers by just cutting out you, the middlemen. The nomads are, and have always been, the real wholesalers. The Moroccon's just took awhile to smarten up and learn to use the technology. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Sent: Jun 5, 2011 5:13 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
This is not entirely true. First of all retail sales from Morocco to the US or European markets do not make sense for most collectors who only look to buy one stone from a particular fall or find. Because Morocco has no paypal or easy method of funds transfer, a buyer must either wire funds from one's bank to the seller's bank or use Western Union - both incur high fees that drive the cost of the single item purchase substantially higher. Add to that the fact that Chronopost is not dependable or secure, meteorites are usually shipped by Fedex or UPS courier service, again at a premium price, which drives the up end cost of the meteorite. Its only viable if buying in bulk quantities. So, I do not believe direct marketing of meteorites from Moroccan dealers to retail buyers (collectors) are a primary cause of increased prices that we are seeing in the marketplace. gary (sorry if this gets posted more than once, third time I'm trying to get this posted) On Jun 5, 2011, at 2:55 PM, Count Deiro wrote: Hi All, Gentlemen and Ladies...I doubt that the increase in price American and European dealers are being asked to pay has anything to do with the nomads developing a heightened sense of value, or an increased skill in bargainingor a paucity of meteorites. I believe what has happened to cause the increase in price and the lack of availabilty in your dealings with North West African wholesalers is that they have discovered that they can market directly to retail buyers all over the world with a stroke of a finger.. The Internet makes it easy and cheap for them to find collectors and sell retail. The result is that they no longer need to sell material, especially choice items, at wholesale to you retail dealers. As all who know me are aware, I am a collector/buyer and have never sold a meteorite. I hadn't bought my first half dozen meteorites online before I was contacted directly by wholesale dealers out of Africa wishing to sell me specimens. I received several offers in the past couple of days.. Folks, The wholesalers have become retailers by just cutting out you, the middlemen. The nomads are, and have always been, the real wholesalers. The Moroccon's just took awhile to smarten up and learn to use the technology. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Sent: Jun 5, 2011 5:13 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
I see Bessey specks this way - almost any speck or crumb of a classified meteorite is not going to hurt science because science already has the 20/20 type sample. Depending on the size of the type sample, that can be enough to last indefinitely for study. For the larger type samples (20g or 40g for a generous main mass holder like NWA 5000), you can make a ton of thin sections with that much material. You can also run a lot of destructive analysis with 20-40g of material on deposit. On the other hand, take NWA 6696 for example. That is my little LL3.6 that was classified at UCLA. The TKW is only 10g and UCLA received 8g of that. I retained 2g. I traded one 1g slice to a friend. I kept a 1g slice which I still have. I could turn that 1g slice into 100+ Bessey specks and make a tidy sum from the sales, I would never do it because on the off chance that something unexpected is found in that meteorite, I want the available material to be of use to science. If science demanded it, I would gladly surrender my last gram of it. So, not every specimen I obtain is destined for the saw or hammer. It depends on the rarity, scientific interest, and historical value (if any) of the piece. Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Galactic-Stone-Ironworks/218849894809686 News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/5/11, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: But that there is the very dangerous and terrible downside to meteorite selling. Eventually most will be crumbs and sub gram samples that offer little to no scientific value. So many forget that while this is a hobby for some, scientists and researchers have made careers out of studying these wonderful rocks from space. Its not always about the dollar and thats the one ingredient of the Meteorite men that is so troubling. I know if there is no money values viewers may not tune in, but its more like a cash for treasures show then a science show with so much $$ flashing around after every find. (not a jab at the show, I think its great to draw in new collectors) Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 6/5/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:46 PM I've been saying it for years - buy low as possible, sell high. Go on open market, buy a $10 micromount. Cut that 1-inch square micro into 10 smaller squares and sell each square for $5. If you cannot afford a saw, whack the micro with a hammer and sell each piece for $5. Bingo, you have just quintupled your money before expenses and overhead. Do this on 50-100 micros a month and your rent is paid. Lather rinse repeat. There is so much profit potential in meteorites - even with the wholesale prices climbing. The key is adjusting one's business model. The old-school business model says to take that 1-inch square micro you bought for $10 and resell it (intact) to a single buyer for $20 or $25. That same business model also says to do it on eBay where now give almost 30% of your gross revenue to a multi-billion-dollar corporation. If people cling to that business model, they will watch their profits dwindle to the level they could make selling stamps, Pokemon cards, or anything other collectible. Embrace the Bessey Speck! ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/11, bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
But that there is the very dangerous and terrible downside to meteorite selling. Eventually most will be crumbs and sub gram samples that offer little to no scientific value. So many forget that while this is a hobby for some, scientists and researchers have made careers out of studying these wonderful rocks from space. Its not always about the dollar and thats the one ingredient of the Meteorite men that is so troubling. I know if there is no money values viewers may not tune in, but its more like a cash for treasures show then a science show with so much $$ flashing around after every find. (not a jab at the show, I think its great to draw in new collectors) Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sun, 6/5/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:46 PM I've been saying it for years - buy low as possible, sell high. Go on open market, buy a $10 micromount. Cut that 1-inch square micro into 10 smaller squares and sell each square for $5. If you cannot afford a saw, whack the micro with a hammer and sell each piece for $5. Bingo, you have just quintupled your money before expenses and overhead. Do this on 50-100 micros a month and your rent is paid. Lather rinse repeat. There is so much profit potential in meteorites - even with the wholesale prices climbing. The key is adjusting one's business model. The old-school business model says to take that 1-inch square micro you bought for $10 and resell it (intact) to a single buyer for $20 or $25. That same business model also says to do it on eBay where now give almost 30% of your gross revenue to a multi-billion-dollar corporation. If people cling to that business model, they will watch their profits dwindle to the level they could make selling stamps, Pokemon cards, or anything other collectible. Embrace the Bessey Speck! ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/11, bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an equation of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity, plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre demande , rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite, a plus aziz h - Message d'origine De : bill kies À : azizhab...@yahoo.com Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up. It's the same everywhere. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: alm...@kconline.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering al if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we pay a good price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary meteorite: we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that look like meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and lunar come from those, but to the fact that some old fall are in sales now for more than what they were when found this is also true; most of the nomade keep there stone because we can't pay the price they are asking, take care aziz h The question is will dealers pay more if they can't make any money on specimens? Seems like you can buy old falls for as much or less than the new stuff coming out of the Sahara. Unless it is something like lunar, martain or ultra rare material specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: habibi abdelaziz To: meteorite list Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan business meteorite is suffering hello all price are high very high, , there is no more meteorite found like old time; you want to have meteorite in sahara desert you have to pay more ; and more and more so simpley and so sadly ; the field are drying , so simple aziz h __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
This is not entirely true. First of all retail sales from Morocco to the US or European markets do not make sense for most collectors who only look to buy one stone from a particular fall or find. Because Morocco has no paypal or easy method of funds transfer, a buyer must either wire funds from one's bank to the seller's bank or use Western Union - both incur high fees that drive the cost of the single item purchase substantially higher. Add to that the fact that Chronopost is not dependable or secure, meteorites are usually shipped by Fedex or UPS courier service, again at a premium price, which drives the up end cost of the meteorite. Its only viable if buying in bulk quantities. So, I do not believe direct marketing of meteorites from Moroccan dealers to retail buyers (collectors) are a primary cause of increased prices that we are seeing in the marketplace. gary On Jun 5, 2011, at 2:55 PM, Count Deiro wrote: Hi All, Gentlemen and Ladies...I doubt that the increase in price American and European dealers are being asked to pay has anything to do with the nomads developing a heightened sense of value, or an increased skill in bargainingor a paucity of meteorites. I believe what has happened to cause the increase in price and the lack of availabilty in your dealings with North West African wholesalers is that they have discovered that they can market directly to retail buyers all over the world with a stroke of a finger.. The Internet makes it easy and cheap for them to find collectors and sell retail. The result is that they no longer need to sell material, especially choice items, at wholesale to you retail dealers. As all who know me are aware, I am a collector/buyer and have never sold a meteorite. I hadn't bought my first half dozen meteorites online before I was contacted directly by wholesale dealers out of Africa wishing to sell me specimens. I received several offers in the past couple of days.. Folks, The wholesalers have become retailers by just cutting out you, the middlemen. The nomads are, and have always been, the real wholesalers. The Moroccon's just took awhile to smarten up and learn to use the technology. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Sent: Jun 5, 2011 5:13 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices
[meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
This is not entirely true. First of all retail sales from Morocco to the US or European markets do not make sense for most collectors who only look to buy one stone from a particular fall or find. Because Morocco has no paypal or easy method of funds transfer, a buyer must either wire funds from one's bank to the seller's bank or use Western Union - both incur high fees that drive the cost of the single item purchase substantially higher. Add to that the fact that Chronopost is not dependable or secure, meteorites are usually shipped by Fedex or UPS courier service, again at a premium price, which drives the up end cost of the meteorite. Its only viable if buying in bulk quantities. So, I do not believe direct marketing of meteorites from Moroccan dealers to retail buyers (collectors) are a primary cause of increased prices that we are seeing in the marketplace. gary On Jun 5, 2011, at 2:55 PM, Count Deiro wrote: Hi All, Gentlemen and Ladies...I doubt that the increase in price American and European dealers are being asked to pay has anything to do with the nomads developing a heightened sense of value, or an increased skill in bargainingor a paucity of meteorites. I believe what has happened to cause the increase in price and the lack of availabilty in your dealings with North West African wholesalers is that they have discovered that they can market directly to retail buyers all over the world with a stroke of a finger.. The Internet makes it easy and cheap for them to find collectors and sell retail. The result is that they no longer need to sell material, especially choice items, at wholesale to you retail dealers. As all who know me are aware, I am a collector/buyer and have never sold a meteorite. I hadn't bought my first half dozen meteorites online before I was contacted directly by wholesale dealers out of Africa wishing to sell me specimens. I received several offers in the past couple of days.. Folks, The wholesalers have become retailers by just cutting out you, the middlemen. The nomads are, and have always been, the real wholesalers. The Moroccon's just took awhile to smarten up and learn to use the technology. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Sent: Jun 5, 2011 5:13 PM To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and capitalism Aziz. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400 From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: parkforest...@hotmail.com; azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Bill, Aziz's worries are very real here. Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But, Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in general. These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price. Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose , lose situation. Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you must adjust. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” bill kies wrote: Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay, the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't. Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose. Bill Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700 From: azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is suffering To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: parkforest...@hotmail.com bill this is not a good theories, at all, offer and demand make the rules of prices
