Re: [uf-discuss] hCard question
David Janes mumbled the following on 21/09/2006 00:52: I'm seeing this: span class=emailspan class=spamprevention usernamekwilson/span@span class=spamprevention domain3color.org/span/span in a vCard [1]. Good. No good? I'm guessing the latter. while splitting the e-mail address into parts is not part of the uf as I understand it, I can understand why this has been done, as it does, IME, greatly reduce spam. I once displayed an email address webmaster@ so that the w was big and bold: span class=bigandboldW/span[EMAIL PROTECTED] When the junk mail arrived, the to: only contained [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clearly the spam harvesters were looking for the @ sign, then cropping up to the nearest HTML delimter. Following on from this, using: mespan@/spanexample.com means they would only harvest the @ sign. Using the kwilson example you've given is just 1 step further forward on from that, using the same idea, but making the markup more semantic. I have to say, I've seen this example before, and I do employ this method on some of my sites. -- Regards, Gazza ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
you should be able to derive a pie chart from the data embedded in this microformat! ;) That would be pretty cool ;) But for that, how useful is it to actually store the data in the class attributes? class is how uF finds data and names fields, but for data storage (especially numeric data like this) it seems odd... especially since you're then storing data invisibly to the user. I think tagclouds need to use class for styling to work (as has been said, for IE), but the uF needs to store in title or inside a tag (as is pretty much uF 'tradition'), to make the data easier to access both for computers AND the user. -- Singpolyma ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCard question
Either of these should work fine under the hCard spec, and are completely understandable markups. On 9/20/06, David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm seeing this: div class=urlhttp://www.3color.org/~kwilson//div Likewise: span class=emailspan class=spamprevention usernamekwilson/span@span class=spamprevention domain3color.org/span/span in a vCard [1]. Good. No good? I'm guessing the latter. Regards, etc... David [1] http://www.3color.org/%7Ekwilson/resume/kenneth-wilson.html ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
For example, with ISO 4127, Canadian Dollars has the code CAD. However, I have also seen the code CDN used for Canadian Dollars. I don't believe 'CDN' is from a standard... it's a common misnomer ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCard question
OK thanks both. So this section saying that url, email and photo get special treatment [1] should be consider as additive to the previous definitions and not replacive [2] Regards, etc... [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#More_Semantic_Equivalents [2] someday I hope to be quoted in a dictionary as the coiner of replacive On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Either of these should work fine under the hCard spec, and are completely understandable markups. On 9/20/06, David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm seeing this: div class=urlhttp://www.3color.org/~kwilson//div Likewise: span class=emailspan class=spamprevention usernamekwilson/span@span class=spamprevention domain3color.org/span/span in a vCard [1]. Good. No good? I'm guessing the latter. Regards, etc... David [1] http://www.3color.org/%7Ekwilson/resume/kenneth-wilson.html ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello, On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, with ISO 4127, Canadian Dollars has the code CAD. However, I have also seen the code CDN used for Canadian Dollars. I don't believe 'CDN' is from a standard... it's a common misnomer I agree that no organization like ISO or ANSI created a specification for that code. But that does NOT prevent from being a standard. (Think defacto standard.) You do NOT need the blessing of any organization to get a standard. You just need enough people (within a group) using it. CDN is used by ALOT of people. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Charles Iliya Krempeaux mumbled the following on 21/09/2006 17:59: Hello, On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, with ISO 4127, Canadian Dollars has the code CAD. However, I have also seen the code CDN used for Canadian Dollars. I don't believe 'CDN' is from a standard... it's a common misnomer I agree that no organization like ISO or ANSI created a specification for that code. But that does NOT prevent from being a standard. (Think defacto standard.) You do NOT need the blessing of any organization to get a standard. You just need enough people (within a group) using it. CDN is used by ALOT of people. Poor web design techniques are used by ALOT of people - doesn't mean they're right. If microformats were to become popular enough, as well the inherent benefits, it could also indirectly correct people on an issue such as this. -- Regards, Gazza ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello, On 9/21/06, Gazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Iliya Krempeaux mumbled the following on 21/09/2006 17:59: Hello, On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, with ISO 4127, Canadian Dollars has the code CAD. However, I have also seen the code CDN used for Canadian Dollars. I don't believe 'CDN' is from a standard... it's a common misnomer I agree that no organization like ISO or ANSI created a specification for that code. But that does NOT prevent from being a standard. (Think defacto standard.) You do NOT need the blessing of any organization to get a standard. You just need enough people (within a group) using it. CDN is used by ALOT of people. Poor web design techniques are used by ALOT of people - doesn't mean they're right. If microformats were to become popular enough, as well the inherent benefits, it could also indirectly correct people on an issue such as this. But aren't Microformats about just documenting what people are already doing. (I.e., the cows path thing.) Instead of trying to TELL THEM what they should or must be doing. If that's the case, then shouldn't we be documenting and allowing things like CDN in a currency Microformat too. Since CDN is very very common. And so many people use it. And not forcing them to use CAD (or else). Because honestly... until I did this last currency globalization project (for work) I ALWAYS used CDN'. And only used CAD now because we as a team choose to use ISO 4127 codes. But I don't think people are going to obey this on the organic Internet. (They'll just do what they want to a large extent... which is good.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello Joe, On 9/21/06, Joe Andrieu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: But aren't Microformats about just documenting what people are already doing. (I.e., the cows path thing.) Instead of trying to TELL THEM what they should or must be doing. If that's the case, then shouldn't we be documenting and allowing things like CDN in a currency Microformat too. Since CDN is very very common. And so many people use it. And not forcing them to use CAD (or else). Because honestly... until I did this last currency globalization project (for work) I ALWAYS used CDN'. And only used CAD now because we as a team choose to use ISO 4127 codes. But I don't think people are going to obey this on the organic Internet. (They'll just do what they want to a large extent... which is good.) I think you are missing the whole point of a public standard. Microformats exists to tell people what to do. ;) That sounds a bit funny, but I'm serious. Without clear direction from a standard, people use/do whatever seems convenient, hence CDN and 7/3/06 for July 3, 2006. And that type of convenience makes it hard for computers to understand the meaning. With a standard, people who want to be understood by more people and applications can do what the standard tells them to do. The reason for using ISO standards (or other completed specifications) instead of coming up with our own from the ground up is because we don't want to repeat the work. ISO has spent a lot of time discussing and debating the various merits of different options. We don't need to repeat those conversations and spend that time reinventing what already works. That's where the cow paths come in. Your points about CDN are precisely the type of debate we can avoid by starting with an existing standard. It isn't that your points are invalid, it's that a full discussion of the topic is a much bigger workload than collating and converging from existing standards. Plus, with uF you can put CAD in an ABBR tag and continue to use CDN in the user-visible region, if you like. So, you aren't really losing much other than ambiguity. Would you agree that adopting the ISO date format saved us work? Seems to me that adopting the ISO currency abbreviations also saves us work, for the same reasons. Yes, I agree that we should be using ISO 4127 codes. (I guess my original argumement has gotten lost in the blast of e-mails.) What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. That way we say... here, we have a currency symbol, and we are giving a machine readable code in ISO 4127 format. (Did I explain that well?) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I, too, will testify that Tantek's just-the-facts-ma'am writing style grows on one over time. I can assure you it won't grow on me; though just the facts would be an improvement on his recent messages. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Draft, plain-English intro to hCalendar.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I've created a draft, plain-English, page about hCalendar: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-intro Do I take it that there's no further dissent over this? I (or someone else, please...) just need to replace the xxx place-holders with some sensible examples; and fix the messy cludge for dtend, then. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:26 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Yes, I agree that we should be using ISO 4127 codes. (I guess my original argumement has gotten lost in the blast of e-mails.) What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. I don't think so. The currency type doesn't belong in the class name because it's content. It's published today in visible text (even when only as $), and we shouldn't be hiding information. And ISO codes don't belong in a class name simply because they are less comprehensible to publishers than something in plain English like currency. As Joe pointed out, we can do something like abbr class=currency title=CADCDN/abbr, so I don't see how this would constrain publishers at all. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Many websites have a What's New page. Here's one I maintain: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm I don't have the resources to provide that data as an RSS feed (I fudge it, and offer an RSS feed of a less-frequently-updated mailing list); yet I'm irritated to find similar page on sites I use, and not be able to get them in RSS. Would there be any mileage in a microformat for marking-up each entry, so that they could be extracted by user-agents, and so that third- party utilities could compile RSS feeds (or indeed do other things with them)? Other such pages are: http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/whatsnew (no RSS) http://www.hse.gov.uk/new/index.htm (has RSS) and most of those found at: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22what%27s+new%22+%22on+this+website+% 22 Obvious components include an hCalendar, some text, and a URL. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello, On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) As far as people inventing their own currency codes an organization like ISO or ANSI creating standards codes is really no different from any group doing it. They are just groups of people. After all... if you want to exclude one group... the W3C might say that we here at Microformats.org should not be allowed to create web standards. (We basically say f*** you. We don't need your blessing.) Why not make the standard we are creating be extensible (by making the type of currency code being used be marked explicitly... with the iso4127 class in our case)? That way it will be useful to more people. (That way it will be useful to people who aren't using ISO 4127 cods.) And thus this Microformat will have a better chance of being used. (Also, it can make it so that different groups won't have conflicting ways of marking up currency. And we won't get a big mess.) So... I'm NOT saying that we should NOT use ISO 4127 codes. (I actually think we should use them.) I'm just saying that we should mark that we are using ISO 4127 codes (via a iso4127 class) so that people can use other currency codes too (and not have a bid confused mess). See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Jeez, yes, I think this would be an ideal application for hAtom [1]. Marking up entries like an RSS feed, mutter mutter mutter... Regards, etc... David [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom On 9/21/06, Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Would there be any mileage in a microformat for marking-up each entry, so that they could be extracted by user-agents, and so that third- party utilities could compile RSS feeds (or indeed do other things with them)? Andy, Take a look at the hAtom draft. This should fit your needs. - Matthew -- Infocraft: handcrafted markup for savvy designers. http://www.infocraft.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello, On 9/21/06, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:26 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Yes, I agree that we should be using ISO 4127 codes. (I guess my original argumement has gotten lost in the blast of e-mails.) What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. I don't think so. The currency type doesn't belong in the class name because it's content. It's published today in visible text (even when only as $), and we shouldn't be hiding information. And ISO codes don't belong in a class name simply because they are less comprehensible to publishers than something in plain English like currency. As Joe pointed out, we can do something like abbr class=currency title=CADCDN/abbr, so I don't see how this would constrain publishers at all. Hmmm... that's an interesting way of doing it. But I was thinking more from the point of view of web developers who want to use other currency codes besides ISO 4127. (So, for example, they'd want to put CDN or whatever in the title attribute.) Today ISO 4127 is popular. Tomorrow, there may be some new standard that everyone wants to use. (This type of thing has happened over and over again. I'm trying to be forward looking with my proposal.) Having an iso4127 class would make it so you could GRACEFULLY migrate between the 2 standards. (Instead of having a incompatibility mess.) And could even have old and new standards being used side by side (on the same web page). (And, BTW, I still like using ¤ (or curren; or #164;) instead of currency as the class name. But that's a separate argument.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 21, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Would there be any mileage in a microformat for marking-up each entry, so that they could be extracted by user-agents, and so that third- party utilities could compile RSS feeds (or indeed do other things with them)? Take a look at the hAtom draft. This should fit your needs. Thank you, but if you look at: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm (or the other examples I provided) you can see that (unless I've misunderstood the spec) hAtom seems to be overkill. There's no author on each entry, which is a requirement for hAtom - nor can I see why there should be, since every entry on the page has the same author. There is no headline/ entry pair; just a single piece of text describing the change. All I need to include, to convey my content, is: body class=whatsnew [1] h1 class=author vcard span class=fn org[Orgasnition name]/span /h1 [...] tr class=new-item [2] th scope=row class=hcalendar abbr class=dtstart title=YYDDMM[date]/th td class=description [3] a class=url href=[URL]Blah blah/a /td /tr with multiple table rows. [1] or class=feed, or whatever; if not body, could be a div [2] or entry ? [3] or entry-content ? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) I'm not disputing that it's used; you've said ...other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used...; and I'm asking what currency code uses CDN. Seems you can't name one. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
On 21 Sep 2006, at 20:05, Andy Mabbett wrote: There're some interesting views about the use of Abbr by microformats, on the Accessify forum: ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167 also an interesting take on the non-use of object. I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT. I was under the impression that the OBJECT bugs in Safari were related to the first generation include pattern, prompting the creation of rel-include. Can someone link me to a post in the archives that concerns the OBJECT and ABBR for datetimes issue the Accessify thread raises? In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too far… maybe not. The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate problems (or otherwise). Ben___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Looks like there are many others: There are various common abbreviations to distinguish the Canadian dollar from others: while the ISO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization currency code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 *CAD* (a three-character code without monetary symbols http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_sign) is common, no single system is universally accepted. *C$* is recommended by the Canadian government (e.g., per /The Canadian Style/ guide) and is used by the International Monetary Fund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund, while /Editing Canadian English/ indicates *Can$* and *CDN$*; both guides note the ISO scheme/code. The abbreviation *CA$* is also used, e.g., in some software packages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_dollar Guillaume Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) I'm not disputing that it's used; you've said ...other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used...; and I'm asking what currency code uses CDN. Seems you can't name one. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
I'll just jump in here: I've worked in finance, treasury, risk management and banking for the last 10 years. I've only seen CAD used technically to refer to Canadian dollars and anyone, from a banking/finance _technical_ perspective, is probably mostly interested in consuming that form of currency information. Regards, etc... David On 9/21/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) As far as people inventing their own currency codes an organization like ISO or ANSI creating standards codes is really no different from any group doing it. They are just groups of people. After all... if you want to exclude one group... the W3C might say that we here at Microformats.org should not be allowed to create web standards. (We basically say f*** you. We don't need your blessing.) Why not make the standard we are creating be extensible (by making the type of currency code being used be marked explicitly... with the iso4127 class in our case)? That way it will be useful to more people. (That way it will be useful to people who aren't using ISO 4127 cods.) And thus this Microformat will have a better chance of being used. (Also, it can make it so that different groups won't have conflicting ways of marking up currency. And we won't get a big mess.) So... I'm NOT saying that we should NOT use ISO 4127 codes. (I actually think we should use them.) I'm just saying that we should mark that we are using ISO 4127 codes (via a iso4127 class) so that people can use other currency codes too (and not have a bid confused mess). See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Just specifiy an author for the page in an address block and you're set. Regards, etc... On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 21, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Would there be any mileage in a microformat for marking-up each entry, so that they could be extracted by user-agents, and so that third- party utilities could compile RSS feeds (or indeed do other things with them)? Take a look at the hAtom draft. This should fit your needs. Thank you, but if you look at: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm (or the other examples I provided) you can see that (unless I've misunderstood the spec) hAtom seems to be overkill. There's no author on each entry, which is a requirement for hAtom - nor can I see why there should be, since every entry on the page has the same author. There is no headline/ entry pair; just a single piece of text describing the change. All I need to include, to convey my content, is: body class=whatsnew [1] h1 class=author vcard span class=fn org[Orgasnition name]/span /h1 [...] tr class=new-item [2] th scope=row class=hcalendar abbr class=dtstart title=YYDDMM[date]/th td class=description [3] a class=url href=[URL]Blah blah/a /td /tr with multiple table rows. [1] or class=feed, or whatever; if not body, could be a div [2] or entry ? [3] or entry-content ? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
A little detail. Shoulnd't it be: abbr class=currency title=Canadian dollarC$/abbr ? CAD being itself an abbreviation. BTW, I think in this context currency as a class name makes sense. I proposed earlier having a currencyamount class name that would contain a value (expressed as text or numerical) and and optionally a currency (optional b/c if we imagine a table of 1000s or rows containing currency amounts, we may not want to have the currency symbol/code next to each entry, but only in the th). span class=currencyamount100abbr class=currency title=Euroeuro;/abbr/span. Guillaume Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Guillaume Lebleu [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Looks like there are many others: There are various common abbreviations to distinguish the Canadian dollar from others: while the ISO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna tional_Organization_for_Standardization currency code http://en.wikip edia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 *CAD* (a three-character code without monetary symbols http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_sign) is common, no single system is universally accepted. *C$* is recommended by the Canadian government (e.g., per /The Canadian Style/ guide) and is used by the International Monetary Fund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern ational_Monetary_Fund, while /Editing Canadian English/ indicates *Can$* and *CDN$*; both guides note the ISO scheme/code. The abbreviation *CA$* is also used, e.g., in some software packages. Any of which can be marked up thus: abbr class=currency title-CADC$/abbr [1] since any of them is a symbol representing CAD. [1] or whatever class we eventually decide on. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
On 9/21/06 3:20 PM, Ben Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 21 Sep 2006, at 20:05, Andy Mabbett wrote: There're some interesting views about the use of Abbr by microformats, on the Accessify forum: ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167 also an interesting take on the non-use of object. I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT. OBJECT has been problematic in Safari for quite some time, and still is AFAIK. In terms of bug-reporting, I'd suggest pointing the Safari team at the draft HTML 4.01 test suite to *at least* pass all the test cases there. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/current/ I was under the impression that the OBJECT bugs in Safari were related to the first generation include pattern, That was the second time the OBJECT bugs got in our way. prompting the creation of rel-include. Can someone link me to a post in the archives that concerns the OBJECT and ABBR for datetimes issue the Accessify thread raises? http://tantek.com/log/2005/01.html#d26t0100 Following the descriptions contained within that post, it is trivial to construct perhaps a half dozen or so OBJECT test cases which Safari fails. In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too far maybe not. The only objectionable examples listed in that accessify thread represent edge cases, rather than the common case. It's (I hate to say this, but typical) reasoning by edge case rather than reasoning by 80% case. The example I gave (which was then misquoted in the accessify thread) was: abbr title=20050125January 25th/abbr January 25th *is* an abbreviation in that context for *2005* January 25th. When used with times in typical use with hCalendar, the ISO8601 datetime typically includes the timezone offset in addition to the information included inline in the element, and thus again, it is proper semantic use of the abbr element to markup an abbreviation. It is a *more* specific use of the abbr element, but certainly fits within the broader abbr semantic. The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate problems (or otherwise). A very good point Ben. So far the critics have only been chicken-littling which we should all have very little patience for. Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
On 9/21/06 3:34 PM, Guillaume Lebleu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like there are many others: There are various common abbreviations to distinguish the Canadian dollar from others: while the ISO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization currency code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 *CAD* (a three-character code without monetary symbols http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_sign) is common, no single system is universally accepted. *C$* is recommended by the Canadian government (e.g., per /The Canadian Style/ guide) and is used by the International Monetary Fund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund, while /Editing Canadian English/ indicates *Can$* and *CDN$*; both guides note the ISO scheme/code. The abbreviation *CA$* is also used, e.g., in some software packages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_dollar Guillaume, This is excellent research on existing currency formats, could you add it to the currency-formats page? http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-formats Thanks! Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
On Sep 21, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Take a look at the hAtom draft. This should fit your needs. Thank you, but if you look at: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm ... hAtom seems to be overkill. There's no author on each entry, which is a requirement for hAtom - nor can I see why there should be, since every entry on the page has the same author. Andy, According to the hAtom draft [1], if you omit the author property, it'll look for the nearest-in-parent [2] address element. You only need to include this once. There is no headline/ entry pair; just a single piece of text describing the change. Just include that as the title of the entry. The entry-content property isn't required. Here's a quick stab at your page. I'm using the published property in lieu of updated (if updated is missing, it's assumed to be the published date): ol class=hfeed li class=hentry h3 class=entry-titleDetails and images of the two revised editions of a href=...Birds of the Malvern District/a added to our bibliography./h3 abbr class=published title=2006-09-21T15:00:00-01:0021 September/abbr /li li class=hentry h3 class=entry-titleOur a href=...September 2006 Bulletin/a is out now./h3 abbr class=published title=2006-09-21T12:00:00-01:0021 September/abbr /li ... /ol ... address class=vcard a class=fn org url href=http:// www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/Westmidland Bird Club/a /address You could mark this up as a table as well, but that seems to be overkill. Hope this helps! - Matthew [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom [2] http://microformats.org/wiki/algorithm-nearest-in-parent -- Infocraft: handcrafted markup for savvy designers. http://www.infocraft.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Just specifiy an author for the page in an address block and you're set. Thank you (to all who've helped). How does this look: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm I've only marked up the first two entries for 21 September. The address is in the page footer. Am I right to use rel=bookmark for the pages which are linked to by the entries? The AUMP http://tools.blogmatrix.com/extract/ gives Python errors, which, I presume are to do with it, rather than my mark-up. If not, then they're not very user friendly! -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm You could mark this up as a table as well, but that seems to be overkill. It already is - and that suits me well. (Other points noted, thanks.) -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Fixed -- I've been iterating the code quite a bit. How does it look now ? http://tinyurl.com/ntorg On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Just specifiy an author for the page in an address block and you're set. Thank you (to all who've helped). How does this look: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm I've only marked up the first two entries for 21 September. The address is in the page footer. Am I right to use rel=bookmark for the pages which are linked to by the entries? The AUMP http://tools.blogmatrix.com/extract/ gives Python errors, which, I presume are to do with it, rather than my mark-up. If not, then they're not very user friendly! -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167 also an interesting take on the non-use of object. I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT. In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too farŠ maybe not. The only objectionable examples listed in that accessify thread represent edge cases, rather than the common case. In what way are they edge cases? They're very real examples, taken from the Wiki. It's (I hate to say this, but typical) reasoning by edge case rather than reasoning by 80% case. Well, they'll certainly both be more than 80% of *my* use of those formats. It's very easy for you to dismiss such things as edge cases; but not very convincing. The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate problems (or otherwise). A very good point Ben. Indeed - which is why I've gone to the people who use them, to ask for concrete examples. So far the critics have only been chicken-littling which we should all have very little patience for. I believe that chicken-littling is an Americanism meaning scare mongering. If so, who is doing that? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
On Sep 21, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: How does this look: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm ... Am I right to use rel=bookmark for the pages which are linked to by the entries? My understanding is that the permalink (rel=bookmark) should be a stable URI for the entry itself (not pages linked from an entry). An appropriate permalink in this case would point to the tr fragment, which probably wouldn't make much sense for your page. - Matthew -- Infocraft: handcrafted markup for savvy designers. http://www.infocraft.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm The AUMP http://tools.blogmatrix.com/extract/ gives Python errors, which, I presume are to do with it, rather than my mark-up. If not, then they're not very user friendly! Fixed Thank you. That was quick! How does it look now ? http://tinyurl.com/ntorg Better. How does my markup look to you? Why are the parent classes (center t70 - legacy!) captured? Is there an on-line tool which will enable me to enter the above URL and thereby subscribe to an RSS feed? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes There should, I believe, be a microformat for the markup of plant and animal names, to include their scientific names. Work to date at: http://microformats.org/wiki/species-brainstorming Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 21, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: How does this look: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm ... Am I right to use rel=bookmark for the pages which are linked to by the entries? My understanding is that the permalink (rel=bookmark) should be a stable URI for the entry itself (not pages linked from an entry). An appropriate permalink in this case would point to the tr fragment, which probably wouldn't make much sense for your page. The microformats wiki says: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Permalink an Entry Permalink element represents the concept of an Atom link in an entry which links in turn to: http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format-spec.php#rfc.section.4.2.7 (aka http://tinyurl.com/q9d34) The atom:link element defines a reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource. This specification assigns no meaning to the content (if any) of this element. If you were right, then hAtom would be of no use for the purpose I outlines; and we'd still need a What's New microformat. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?
Back to the citation fray: I think the ROLE attribute of vcard means something different than what you guys were describing with a role. You were saying role = what this person's relationship to the cited work is I dug around for the vcard rfc, which says that the ROLE vcard attribute is based on job description, so for the hcard, role = what this person does for a living. It is also supposedly intended to draw from a list of roles described as business category or occupation, in (ANSI?) X.509, which I can't find online. I can easily imagine wanting the vcard role in addition to the citation role - for instance, on my CV page I want to have a single hcard for myself with the role graduate student, while my role on each paper I cite in my references list may be different. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for how I think we should mark up roles. I agree that having a creator,role,value structure is nice, but I can't think of a good way to mark it up. There's nothing I know of that's marking things up like that out there on the web, and unless it's a coincidence, all discussion on this topic stopped once we got onto the role idea. I stopped because I was waiting for an idea to come to me about how to write that in XHTML. The only ideas I have come up with involve hiding the span containing the role with CSS. If we just have a single creator class (and a small number of other role classes), we can do this: span class=vcard creator /*my vcard*//span with roles, we could do this: span class=vcardspan class=roleauthor/span/*my vcard info*//span but that clashes with the vcard 'role' attribute, which may be OK but may not. If we are parsing this, do we have to treat hcards that are in a citation differently from hcards elsewhere? (In order to avoid losing the 'role' element to the hcard, or to first look for a 'citerole' element or something before passing it off to an hcard parser?) I'd like to avoid that extra complexity. Does anyone have a good suggestion for marking this up? I'm not sure if I'm missing an obvious good solution here. Thanks, -mike On 9/1/06, Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/31/06, Timothy Gambell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] hCard has a role term, though I don't know if it is consistent with this? Certainly an appealing possibility. Unless the proprietors of hCard object, I think we should use it. Do you agree? Well, the problem with role to me is the semantics are unclear (a role isn't really a property of a person, but a relation between a person and some other thing). But I really have no strong opinion. It is; really more a producer. The DC group considers it a contributor, and has wanted to get rid of dc:publisher and use that instead. Dropping publisher and marking it up as a contributor with a role of publisher sounds like a good proposal to me. I'm not saying to drop it really; just giving an example of how to think about it. Bruce ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
On 9/21/06 5:07 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167 also an interesting take on the non-use of object. I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT. In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too farS maybe not. The only objectionable examples listed in that accessify thread represent edge cases, rather than the common case. In what way are they edge cases? They're very real examples, taken from the Wiki. They are not from the wiki AFAIK. The example from the accessify thread is a mutation/misquote from a blog post of mine. Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, as well in sites, search results for events etc., whereas the example given puts the date in the prose. Using the year inline every time a day and month is state is the edge case. For times, typical use in prose omit the timezone, as well in sites, search results for events etc. It's (I hate to say this, but typical) reasoning by edge case rather than reasoning by 80% case. Well, they'll certainly both be more than 80% of *my* use of those formats. Do you state the year every time you state the day and month? Do you state your timezone everytime you state the time? The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate problems (or otherwise). A very good point Ben. Indeed - which is why I've gone to the people who use them, to ask for concrete examples. So far the critics have only been chicken-littling which we should all have very little patience for. I believe that chicken-littling is an Americanism meaning scare mongering. If so, who is doing that? The accessify link you pointed to is one such example though there have been some threads in this list as well. Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] basic include pattern question
Hi, I was trying to use the include pattern to mark up some names on my publications list, and I've run into a problem. I assume I'm just missing something, since it's pretty basic. I want to have one hcard at the top and reuse the data, but I also want to reuse the actual displayed text for the browser, not just for a microformat parser. What's the done thing here? Here's what I am doing: span class=vcard id=hcardmike a class=url fn href=http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/;Michael McCracken/a ... /span /span later... span class=creatorobject data=#hcardmike class=include/object/span And of course, nothing is displayed. Am I misusing the pattern? Should I just repeat the info that I want displayed? Sorry for the newbie question, but I didn't find any examples that discussed displaying the repeated data in the 20 minutes I had to look :) Thanks, -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:30 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: The atom:link element defines a reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource. This specification assigns no meaning to the content (if any) of this element. The XMDP profile in the hAtom draft [1] goes into more detail, defining the bookmark property (hAtom:bookmark) as: The concept of atom:link (without any rel) with an atom:entry from The Atom Syndication Format, constrained and modified as per the hAtom microformat spec. The Atom specification goes on to describe five types of link relations [2], with the proviso that: If the rel attribute is not present, the link element MUST be interpreted as if the link relation type is alternate The five relation types are: 1) alternate: an alternate version of the entry. 2) related: a resource related to the entry (e.g. examples and references). 3) self: a link to the entry itself. 4) enclosure: a resource that might be large ... and require special handling. 5) via: the source of information in the entry. According to the XMDP profile, the hAtom:bookmark is atom:link without a rel, meaning it MUST be interpreted as alternate. This constrains the hAtom:bookmark to point to alternate versions of the entry, which is essentially a permalink. While there is some room for interpretation, it seems to me like there's a clear distinction between the *page* and the *announcement* that the page is being updated. The page is related to the announcement (rel=related), but it is not an alternate version of the announcement (rel=alternate). This would not allow for the use of hAtom:bookmark the way you propose. If you were right, then hAtom would be of no use for the purpose I outlines; and we'd still need a What's New microformat. Your ultimate purpose is to syndicate updates to the site, yes? hAtom is perfect for this. It might require you to tweak the format slightly. One possibility: tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleUpdated Bibliography/entry- title: span class=entry-contentDetails and images of the two revised editions of a href=biblio/worcs.htm#BirdsOfMalvernBirds of the Malvern District/a added to our bibliography/span./td /tr tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleSeptember 2006 Bulletin/span: span class=entry-contentOur a href=../bulletin/ index.htm#b434September 2006 Bulletin/a is out now./span/td /tr - Matthew [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#XMDP_Profile [2] http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format- spec.php#rfc.section.4.2.7.2 -- Infocraft: handcrafted markup for savvy designers. http://www.infocraft.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Matthew Levine mumbled the following on 22/09/2006 00:09: [What's new page] Take a look at the hAtom draft. This should fit your needs. If a What's New / Updates / changelog page can be marked up successfully with hAtom, can these examples be added to the Wiki please? I (for one) don't have a blog, but do have these types of pages scattered over a few sites. -- Regards, Gazza ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
It seems the people on that forum have a malview of an abbreviation, stating that part of a datetime is not an abbreviation for the whole datetime. This comes (often) from a misunderstanding of 'abbreviation' in a vocab-grammatical context. People think that for it to be an abbreviation it must be shortened words/phrases. This is not so, and '7:25 PM' is a perfectly legal abbreviation for 'January 5, 2006 7:25 PM', because one is part of another (assuming the time was dealing with the time on the day given, which is the assumption). The thread also follows the misunderstanding that abbr is ever used where object would be... this is (at least mostly) not the case. On 9/21/06, Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/21/06 5:07 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167 also an interesting take on the non-use of object. I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT. In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too farS maybe not. The only objectionable examples listed in that accessify thread represent edge cases, rather than the common case. In what way are they edge cases? They're very real examples, taken from the Wiki. They are not from the wiki AFAIK. The example from the accessify thread is a mutation/misquote from a blog post of mine. Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, as well in sites, search results for events etc., whereas the example given puts the date in the prose. Using the year inline every time a day and month is state is the edge case. For times, typical use in prose omit the timezone, as well in sites, search results for events etc. It's (I hate to say this, but typical) reasoning by edge case rather than reasoning by 80% case. Well, they'll certainly both be more than 80% of *my* use of those formats. Do you state the year every time you state the day and month? Do you state your timezone everytime you state the time? The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate problems (or otherwise). A very good point Ben. Indeed - which is why I've gone to the people who use them, to ask for concrete examples. So far the critics have only been chicken-littling which we should all have very little patience for. I believe that chicken-littling is an Americanism meaning scare mongering. If so, who is doing that? The accessify link you pointed to is one such example though there have been some threads in this list as well. Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Try: http://xoxotools.ning.com/hatom2rss.php (has a slight problem with your page because you have tags in your title, which isn't allowed in RSS... try putting BOTH entry-title AND entry-content on the data :) ) or http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/ (no idea how it'll work, supports both RSS and ATOM [ick] output) On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm The AUMP http://tools.blogmatrix.com/extract/ gives Python errors, which, I presume are to do with it, rather than my mark-up. If not, then they're not very user friendly! Fixed Thank you. That was quick! How does it look now ? http://tinyurl.com/ntorg Better. How does my markup look to you? Why are the parent classes (center t70 - legacy!) captured? Is there an on-line tool which will enable me to enter the above URL and thereby subscribe to an RSS feed? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 9:32 PM, Stephen Paul Weber wrote: Parsers like only having one format to work with. Let people display what they will, the machine-readable should be consolidated. I agree. Publishers also like having only one format to work with. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
