Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Blogger is changing their template format. No word on hAtom [1] Regards, etc... David [1] http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/09/02/on-open-letter-to-blogger/ On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I definately vote picking one standard and sticking to it. As with date formats, this may cause problems (ie, on blogger I still can't use proper hAtom), but this is the sort of thing that may be dealt with LATER in a MATURE uF community (or at least a mature uF). Parsers like only having one format to work with. Let people display what they will, the machine-readable should be consolidated. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes [on why the use of rel=bookmark links in : http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm might be incorrect) I'd be grateful for a consensus, or at least others' thoughts, on this, please, before I mark-up the rest of the page. Your ultimate purpose is to syndicate updates to the site, yes? Yes. hAtom is perfect for this. It might require you to tweak the format slightly. One possibility: tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleUpdated Bibliography/entry- title: span class=entry-contentDetails and images of the two revised editions of a href=biblio/worcs.htm#BirdsOfMalvernBirds of the Malvern District/a added to our bibliography/span./td /tr tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleSeptember 2006 Bulletin/span: span class=entry-contentOur a href=../bulletin/ index.htm#b434September 2006 Bulletin/a is out now./span/td /tr Thank you, but that simply isn't going top happen. I'm not going to start repeating content on the page, just o shoehorn it into an otherwise-incompatible microformat. I thought the whole point of microformats is that there should be no need to do so? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
Honestly, exactly right. hAtom works for what you're doing; don't get over caught up in the meaning of bookmark or whatever. If could potentially create an RSS/Atom feed for the page, you'll be able to put hAtom markup on it. Regards, etc... David On 9/22/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you, but that simply isn't going top happen. I'm not going to start repeating content on the page, just o shoehorn it into an otherwise-incompatible microformat. I thought the whole point of microformats is that there should be no need to do so? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
For hatom converters, see Chris Casciano's work: http://placenamehere.com/mf/ Chris On 9/22/06, David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All the '@' stuff is derived elements that are for ... other purposes ... I believe there's someone doing hAtom - feed converters; I've avoided that (even though it's a very useful service) because I don't want to push the meme that the purpose of hAtom is to compete with existing syndication formats. Regards, etc... David On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm The AUMP http://tools.blogmatrix.com/extract/ gives Python errors, which, I presume are to do with it, rather than my mark-up. If not, then they're not very user friendly! Fixed Thank you. That was quick! How does it look now ? http://tinyurl.com/ntorg Better. How does my markup look to you? Why are the parent classes (center t70 - legacy!) captured? Is there an on-line tool which will enable me to enter the above URL and thereby subscribe to an RSS feed? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] basic include pattern question
On 22 Sep 2006, at 02:26, Michael McCracken wrote: Should I just repeat the info that I want displayed? Yes. The include pattern (both the OBJECT and rel-include variants) allows you to point a microformat to some other piece of data published already in the page, for the purpose of *not* repeating information. So for example, I could fix up my website with hAtom for blog entries, and rather than repeat my hCard in every entry, just use the include pattern to point to the fulll hCard in my sidebar each time (although hAtom has handling for that anyway, so that example is slightly mute). Anyway, in situations where you want information to be included and displayed in the page it should be written directly as content. The include patterns in µf are for parsing when you *don't* want to display repeated data. Ben ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
For the sake of discussion, I started a page of demos (done offline, so I might be wrong in some of my code) for various tagcloud techniques... http://factorycity.net/demos/microformats/htagcloud/ I'll go download John's original page so that I incorporate his examples. Chris On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should be able to derive a pie chart from the data embedded in this microformat! ;) That would be pretty cool ;) But for that, how useful is it to actually store the data in the class attributes? class is how uF finds data and names fields, but for data storage (especially numeric data like this) it seems odd... especially since you're then storing data invisibly to the user. I think tagclouds need to use class for styling to work (as has been said, for IE), but the uF needs to store in title or inside a tag (as is pretty much uF 'tradition'), to make the data easier to access both for computers AND the user. -- Singpolyma ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
Just curious - but why aren't we using the uF wiki? On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the sake of discussion, I started a page of demos (done offline, so I might be wrong in some of my code) for various tagcloud techniques... http://factorycity.net/demos/microformats/htagcloud/ I'll go download John's original page so that I incorporate his examples. Chris On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should be able to derive a pie chart from the data embedded in this microformat! ;) That would be pretty cool ;) But for that, how useful is it to actually store the data in the class attributes? class is how uF finds data and names fields, but for data storage (especially numeric data like this) it seems odd... especially since you're then storing data invisibly to the user. I think tagclouds need to use class for styling to work (as has been said, for IE), but the uF needs to store in title or inside a tag (as is pretty much uF 'tradition'), to make the data easier to access both for computers AND the user. -- Singpolyma ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Frances Berriman http://www.fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
Because I wrote this up when I was on a plane. ;) Does the mF wiki support inline CSS and all the tags we need? Chris On 9/22/06, Frances Berriman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious - but why aren't we using the uF wiki? On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the sake of discussion, I started a page of demos (done offline, so I might be wrong in some of my code) for various tagcloud techniques... http://factorycity.net/demos/microformats/htagcloud/ I'll go download John's original page so that I incorporate his examples. Chris On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should be able to derive a pie chart from the data embedded in this microformat! ;) That would be pretty cool ;) But for that, how useful is it to actually store the data in the class attributes? class is how uF finds data and names fields, but for data storage (especially numeric data like this) it seems odd... especially since you're then storing data invisibly to the user. I think tagclouds need to use class for styling to work (as has been said, for IE), but the uF needs to store in title or inside a tag (as is pretty much uF 'tradition'), to make the data easier to access both for computers AND the user. -- Singpolyma ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Frances Berriman http://www.fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
Nah - I meant this whole hTagCloud progression (examples off-site makes perfect sense). It all seems off-site at the mo. And that's dedication, Chris. :) On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because I wrote this up when I was on a plane. ;) Does the mF wiki support inline CSS and all the tags we need? Chris On 9/22/06, Frances Berriman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious - but why aren't we using the uF wiki? On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the sake of discussion, I started a page of demos (done offline, so I might be wrong in some of my code) for various tagcloud techniques... http://factorycity.net/demos/microformats/htagcloud/ I'll go download John's original page so that I incorporate his examples. Chris On 9/21/06, Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should be able to derive a pie chart from the data embedded in this microformat! ;) That would be pretty cool ;) But for that, how useful is it to actually store the data in the class attributes? class is how uF finds data and names fields, but for data storage (especially numeric data like this) it seems odd... especially since you're then storing data invisibly to the user. I think tagclouds need to use class for styling to work (as has been said, for IE), but the uF needs to store in title or inside a tag (as is pretty much uF 'tradition'), to make the data easier to access both for computers AND the user. -- Singpolyma ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Frances Berriman http://www.fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable[X] ask first [ ] private ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Frances Berriman http://www.fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
Frances, Nah - I meant this whole hTagCloud progression (examples off-site makes perfect sense). It all seems off-site at the mo. It may well have reached the stage of warranting pages at the wiki. I think that the process doesn't really spell out exactly when the pages should be created, and by whom, so perhaps I've erred on the side of caution here, it's my nature not to presume that the proposal warranted the creation of the pages just yet. j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher WebPatterns :: http://webpatterns.org Web Directions Conference :: Sydney September 28-29 :: http://wd06.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Re: Re: Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True -- but as we're in the proposal stage, it's not too bad... however, we do need a tagcloud-brainstorming page on the wiki with all of John's research. True. :) imo, it's always valuable to have a page you can point to with all the current research - no matter how useless it might end up being in the end, so that new thinkers can pick it up and add to it easily. Thanks for answering my query though. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: a very early draft proposal hTagcloud
Frances and Chris, On 9/22/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True -- but as we're in the proposal stage, it's not too bad... however, we do need a tagcloud-brainstorming page on the wiki with all of John's research. True. :) imo, it's always valuable to have a page you can point to with all the current research - no matter how useless it might end up being in the end, so that new thinkers can pick it up and add to it easily. I've just set up http://microformats.org/wiki/tagcloud-brainstorming http://microformats.org/wiki/tagcloud-examples Does anyone have some tips/tools for converting HTML to Wiki? All the brainstorming, research etc I've done is in HTML. Thanks j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher WebPatterns :: http://webpatterns.org Web Directions Conference :: Sydney September 28-29 :: http://wd06.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] question about currency amounts in tables
Should the currency amount mF proposal include support for representation of currency-qualified values in a table format? If so, take a look at: http://investor.google.com/fin_data.html As you can see, it would not make sense to have the currency repeated for each piece of data. Instead, it should be provided once at the table level, and then a td may override the default value. What do you think? Guillaume ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Avoiding duplicate data on one page; and same-page URL references.
On Sep 20, 2006, at 9:28 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: I feel that there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all the events have the summary WMBC Birmingham Branch field trip and use the URL of that page - all data which is available to visitors to the latter page, albeit not once for each event. All of these events do what? -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) No. :-P -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello Andy, On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) I'm not disputing that it's used; you've said ...other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used...; and I'm asking what currency code uses CDN. Seems you can't name one. I think I understand you question now. The answer is that I do NOT think this is any body like ISO or ANSI that has CDN as a currency code. It is only a defacto standard used by Canadians. (And maybe others... but I don't have enough info to confirm or deny that.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?
On 9/22/06, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is the most straightforward way, yes. The problem I have with it is the repeated role term will be displayed for every contributor, and will likely end up being more hidden data. No, I'm saying have two main terms: creator and contributor. Only add a role when it actually needs to be displayed (which is not the case for an author). Using creator for author is fine. Bruce ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello David, Just out of curiosity, was this inside or outside of Canada? On 9/21/06, David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll just jump in here: I've worked in finance, treasury, risk management and banking for the last 10 years. I've only seen CAD used technically to refer to Canadian dollars and anyone, from a banking/finance _technical_ perspective, is probably mostly interested in consuming that form of currency information. Regards, etc... David On 9/21/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 9/21/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes What I'm arguing is that... we should throw an iso4127 class name in there too so that other currency codes (besides ISO 4127) could be used too without (potentially) breaking this or other Semantic HTML systems (that either exist now or will exist in the future) for marking up currency. What currency code uses CDN for Canadian dollars - or we going to have people inventing their own currency codes, too? Well... I use CDN. (I'm Canadian BTW.) Until I read the ISO 4127 spec, I don't think I've noticed CAD being used. But I've seen CDN all over the place. Even at the currency exchage stores (that I've been to) I believe they use CDN. It's a defacto standard. (Just because ISO doesn't give CDN its blessing and tells people to use CAD doesn't mean people will.) As far as people inventing their own currency codes an organization like ISO or ANSI creating standards codes is really no different from any group doing it. They are just groups of people. After all... if you want to exclude one group... the W3C might say that we here at Microformats.org should not be allowed to create web standards. (We basically say f*** you. We don't need your blessing.) Why not make the standard we are creating be extensible (by making the type of currency code being used be marked explicitly... with the iso4127 class in our case)? That way it will be useful to more people. (That way it will be useful to people who aren't using ISO 4127 cods.) And thus this Microformat will have a better chance of being used. (Also, it can make it so that different groups won't have conflicting ways of marking up currency. And we won't get a big mess.) So... I'm NOT saying that we should NOT use ISO 4127 codes. (I actually think we should use them.) I'm just saying that we should mark that we are using ISO 4127 codes (via a iso4127 class) so that people can use other currency codes too (and not have a bid confused mess). See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCard question
I've changed: However, for some properties there is a more semantic equivalent, and therefore they get special treatment, e.g.: to: However, some properties have a better semantic equivalent and therefore should be encoded as follows: Regards, etc... On 9/22/06, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:41 AM, David Janes wrote: OK thanks both. So this section saying that url, email and photo get special treatment [1] should be consider as additive to the previous definitions and not replacive [2] Regards, etc... [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#More_Semantic_Equivalents [2] someday I hope to be quoted in a dictionary as the coiner of replacive Right, those rules are in addition to plain text parsing. They don't replace that. If you can, please come up with some short explanatory text to add there. thanks, ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello Scott, On 9/21/06, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 9:32 PM, Stephen Paul Weber wrote: Parsers like only having one format to work with. Let people display what they will, the machine-readable should be consolidated. I agree. Publishers also like having only one format to work with. But sometimes they change their mind on what that single standard format should be. At one time, everyone wanted to use RFC 822 dates. (Like Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:01:07 +0200.) But no longer. Now everyone wants to use ISO 8601 dates. (Like 2004-02-12T15:19:21+00:00.) In the future people could change their mind yet again. For currencies... We could specify one standard currency -- ISO 4127 3 letter codes -- for now (which would make these people happy). But also think to the future about if people change out minds (and don't want to use ISO 4127 anymore) and just add the iso4127 class in there so we can gracefully migrate in the future. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes How does this look: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm I've only marked up the first two entries for 21 September. I've now done the lot, and moved the results to: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm and the continuation page: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/site/new-2006.htm -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
On Sep 22, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: For currencies... We could specify one standard currency -- ISO 4127 3 letter codes -- for now (which would make these people happy). But also think to the future about if people change out minds (and don't want to use ISO 4127 anymore) and just add the iso4127 class in there so we can gracefully migrate in the future. It sounds like you're suggesting we put a profile in the class attribute. HTML already provides a mechanism for specifying the exact meaning of the markup: http://microformats.org/wiki/profile-uris If what we mean by class=currency changes, we can indicate that by using a different profile. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Avoiding duplicate data on one page; and same-page URL references.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I feel that there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all the events have the summary WMBC Birmingham Branch field trip and use the URL of that page - all data which is available to visitors to the latter page, albeit not once for each event. All of these events do what? I don't understand your question. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) No. :-P So, are you going to tell us which bit(s) you disagree with, or is it a secret? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On Sep 22, 2006, at 12:55 PM, Ryan King wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) No. :-P Andy, if you're eager to move these discussions forward more quickly, you might find it helpful to move some of them to the IRC channel, where three emails in a day can be reduced to three messages in a minute: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc It would also be good to bring more interested people into the discussions, e.g. more people who work in finance for currency, more people who work in bioscience for species. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On Sep 22, 2006, at 2:24 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) No. :-P So, are you going to tell us which bit(s) you disagree with, or is it a secret? Neither. It's something we haven't all had the time to look at yet. If you get bored waiting, you could fill in a species-formats page, which comes before brainstorming in the process. I don't know much about biology (like Sam Cooke), but a quick Google search brought up this: http://www.uni-kl.de/FB-Biologie/AG-Hakenbeck/TGrebe/HPK/Table1.htm So I assume there's more prior work in this area. And if there's not, we should document the lack as well. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On 9/22/06 12:24 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Shall I take everyone's silence as complete agreement? ;-) No. :-P So, are you going to tell us which bit(s) you disagree with, or is it a secret? I think the point is that silence != agreement nor disagreement. Silence = disinterest, which is actually worse than disagreement. The point of any standard is to interoperate between multiple interested parties. If there is only one party, no need for a standard (i.e. microformat). Instead, just experiment with semantic XHTML and semantic class names, document your experiments and see if more interest shows up in the future. This is something we deliberately recognize with microformats, and try to solve 80/20 type problems, where there is already a lot of interest in publishing and sharing information of the particular type on the Web. There is obviously a very wide spectrum of interest in types of data, but we prioritize those at the 80/20 heavy-use side of the spectrum (hence people, companies, events, reviews, citations etc.) while allowing/encouraging research of more esoteric or less frequently used/published data types (species, moon/mars geolocations) on the Web. Thanks, Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Another hAtom check, please
I've marked-up another page with hAtom: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ladywalk/latest.htm using the format: li class=hentry abbr class=updated entry-title title=2006-09-20 20th /abbr : span class=entry-content [text] /span /li All seems well, except that the AUMP reports the entry title of such an entry as 20th, where I would have expected it to be 2006-09-20. Am I right? Is the hAtom markup correct? Any other observations will be welcome. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 'currency' microformat straw-man proposal.
Hello Scott, On 9/22/06, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: For currencies... We could specify one standard currency -- ISO 4127 3 letter codes -- for now (which would make these people happy). But also think to the future about if people change out minds (and don't want to use ISO 4127 anymore) and just add the iso4127 class in there so we can gracefully migrate in the future. It sounds like you're suggesting we put a profile in the class attribute. HTML already provides a mechanism for specifying the exact meaning of the markup: http://microformats.org/wiki/profile-uris If what we mean by class=currency changes, we can indicate that by using a different profile. Yeah That could be a solution. Although it might not solve cases where someone wants to have more than one style of currency code on the same page... but we could ignore that due to the 80/20 principle we've been going by. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Make Televisionhttp://maketelevision.com/ ___ Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks, and Racing... http://tirebiterz.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes If you get bored waiting, you could fill in a species-formats page, which comes before brainstorming in the process. Are you sure about that? I don't know much about biology (like Sam Cooke), but a quick Google search brought up this: http://www.uni-kl.de/FB-Biologie/AG-Hakenbeck/TGrebe/HPK/Table1.htm Thanks, but there's nothing relevant there. So I assume there's more prior work in this area. And if there's not, we should document the lack as well. I think there may be some. Ever heard of Linneaus? ;-) -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On Sep 22, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: If you get bored waiting, you could fill in a species-formats page, which comes before brainstorming in the process. Are you sure about that? I'm sure this is what the process page says: http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Pages_to_consider_creating A pattern has emerged from successful microformat development efforts of several specific kinds of wiki pages being created, in a particular order (though not always). [...] If you're unable to come up with material for the pages, then you should probably reconsider whether or not the problem is worth (or ready for) solving. 1. *-examples [...] 2. *-formats [...] 3. *-brainstorming [...] 2 still comes before 3, right? Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Andy, if you're eager to move these discussions forward more quickly, you might find it helpful to move some of them to the IRC channel, where three emails in a day can be reduced to three messages in a minute: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc Thank you, but I very rarely use IRC for a number of reasons. Also, is it sensible to divide debate between at least three media - mailing list, wiki and IRC? It would also be good to bring more interested people into the discussions, e.g. more people who work in finance for currency, more people who work in bioscience for species. Indeed. In don't know anyone in finance (I have some standards! ;-) ); and I have had some interest from people interested in taxonomy, but they're not likely to get involved in what they see as a geeky debate. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, Nonsense. Hardly. Few people use a year when giving a date that is close to the current date. It's assumed. Either way it doesn't affect the discussion though... It's still an abbreviation. -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
rel=bookmark translates to the link in RSS... so whatever you want in link, use rel=bookmark on On 9/22/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes [on why the use of rel=bookmark links in : http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm might be incorrect) I'd be grateful for a consensus, or at least others' thoughts, on this, please, before I mark-up the rest of the page. Your ultimate purpose is to syndicate updates to the site, yes? Yes. hAtom is perfect for this. It might require you to tweak the format slightly. One possibility: tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleUpdated Bibliography/entry- title: span class=entry-contentDetails and images of the two revised editions of a href=biblio/worcs.htm#BirdsOfMalvernBirds of the Malvern District/a added to our bibliography/span./td /tr tr class=hentry th scope=rowabbr class=updated title=2006-09-2121 September/abbr/th tdspan class=entry-titleSeptember 2006 Bulletin/span: span class=entry-contentOur a href=../bulletin/ index.htm#b434September 2006 Bulletin/a is out now./span/td /tr Thank you, but that simply isn't going top happen. I'm not going to start repeating content on the page, just o shoehorn it into an otherwise-incompatible microformat. I thought the whole point of microformats is that there should be no need to do so? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
The first http://xoxotools.ning.com/hatom2rss.php is my site, I will look into making your requested tweak to the script :) On 9/22/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Try: http://xoxotools.ning.com/hatom2rss.php Thank you. (has a slight problem with your page because you have tags in your title, which isn't allowed in RSS... try putting BOTH entry-title AND entry-content on the data :) ) That would bloat it somewhat. Perhaps it would be better if the tool simply ignored anchor tags (but not their content)? or http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/ (no idea how it'll work, supports both RSS and ATOM [ick] output) That seems to barf, on: http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/RSS/hatom/http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/newATOM.htm (aka http://tinyurl.com/keb82) I suspect that it's expecting something more like: http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/RSS/hatom/http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new/ (i.e. without .htm) Are either of those your sites, or should I contact them separately? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer http://www.awriterz.org MSN/GTalk/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ/AIM: 103332966 NSA: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOG: http://singpolyma-tech.blogspot.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes If you get bored waiting, you could fill in a species-formats page, which comes before brainstorming in the process. Are you sure about that? I'm sure this is what the process page says: http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Pages_to_consider_creating A pattern has emerged from successful microformat development efforts of several specific kinds of wiki pages being created, in a particular order (though not always). [...] If you're unable to come up with material for the pages, then you should probably reconsider whether or not the problem is worth (or ready for) solving. 1. *-examples [...] 2. *-formats [...] 3. *-brainstorming [...] So, does that mean you're not (or no longer) sure about your earlier claim? 2 still comes before 3, right? Yes. But that's not the issue. Interesting debating technique, though. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, Nonsense. Hardly. Few people use a year when giving a date that is close to the current date. Who said anything about close to the current date? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tentative proposal for What's New listings
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stephen Paul Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes The first http://xoxotools.ning.com/hatom2rss.php is my site, I will look into making your requested tweak to the script :) No charge ;-) (Seriously - thank you. Please let me/ us know when it's done.) -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Another hAtom check, please
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On 9/22/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've marked-up another page with hAtom: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ladywalk/latest.htm using the format: li class=hentry abbr class=updated entry-title title=2006-09-20 20th /abbr : span class=entry-content [text] /span /li All seems well, except that the AUMP reports the entry title of such an entry as 20th, where I would have expected it to be 2006-09-20. AUMFP is correct. It doesn't let abbr be an all purpose content hider. This trick might work to your satisfacation: span class=entry-content entry-title.../span Thank you, but no. The data in the content is not suitable for use in the title (and vice versa). -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
On Sep 22, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: If you get bored waiting, you could fill in a species-formats page, which comes before brainstorming in the process. Are you sure about that? I'm sure this is what the process page says: http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Pages_to_consider_creating A pattern has emerged from successful microformat development efforts of several specific kinds of wiki pages being created, in a particular order (though not always). [...] If you're unable to come up with material for the pages, then you should probably reconsider whether or not the problem is worth (or ready for) solving. 1. *-examples [...] 2. *-formats [...] 3. *-brainstorming [...] So, does that mean you're not (or no longer) sure about your earlier claim? I'm not really sure what you're asking. I don't know how one could read the process page in the wiki and not conclude that formats comes before brainstorming in the process. But I didn't write the process, so I'll leave it to whoever did to explain it with the certainty you apparently require. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: species
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes allowing/encouraging research of more esoteric or less frequently used/published data types (species, moon/mars geolocations) on the Web. Do you *really* think that species names are esoteric? *boggle* -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Avoiding duplicate data on one page; and same-page URL references.
On Sep 22, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I feel that there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all the events have the summary WMBC Birmingham Branch field trip and use the URL of that page - all data which is available to visitors to the latter page, albeit not once for each event. All of these events do what? I don't understand your question. I don't understand your above statement. You say ...there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all events... [matching these conditions]... What are you declaring about these events? -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Another hAtom check, please
On Sep 22, 2006, at 1:27 PM, David Janes wrote: AUMFP is correct. It doesn't let abbr be an all purpose content hider. This trick might work to your satisfacation: That's not the way other implementations work. Or other microformats, for that matter. Did you write something specific for hAtom about this? -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Another hAtom check, please
Did something change or did I misinterpret a spec? Can I do this? abbr class=entry-content title=Here's the real entry content even though it's not visible to the user but it's what I want the computer to see This text appears in the browser but when we parse the document it will disappear. /abbr Regards, etc... On 9/22/06, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2006, at 1:27 PM, David Janes wrote: AUMFP is correct. It doesn't let abbr be an all purpose content hider. This trick might work to your satisfacation: That's not the way other implementations work. Or other microformats, for that matter. Did you write something specific for hAtom about this? -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
On Sep 22, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, Nonsense. Hardly. Few people use a year when giving a date that is close to the current date. Who said anything about close to the current date? Most events on the web lack are published close to the date they occur. As a result, most published events on the web lack a year. Most events on the web are published for an audience in the immediate vicinity of the publisher. As a result, most published events on the web lack a time zone. These two combined mean the published event date is almost always less complicated than the ISO 8601 version of the same date. The less complicated version is treated as an abbreviation of the more complicated version, just as DVD is a less complicated abbreviation of Digital Video Disc. For examples, looking at the first five live examples for hCalendar in the wiki, the first four published dates (I couldn't find a date on one) are: 6 octobre 20h00 Tuesday 26th September 9.00am 9 September at 7:30pm Thursday 7th September 2006 All but one of these lack a published year. All of them lack a published time zone. So all are less complicated than the ISO 8601 version of the dates. Which of these is not an abbreviation of the equivalent ISO 8601 date? I'm not seeing the problem here. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, Nonsense. Hardly. Few people use a year when giving a date that is close to the current date. Who said anything about close to the current date? [...] That would be no-one, then. -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] New wiki page: FireFox Extensions
Does what it says on the tin: http://microformats.org/wiki/firefox-extensions -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Avoiding duplicate data on one page; and same-page URL references.
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Sep 22, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I feel that there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all the events have the summary WMBC Birmingham Branch field trip and use the URL of that page - all data which is available to visitors to the latter page, albeit not once for each event. All of these events do what? I don't understand your question. I don't understand your above statement. You say ...there should be some way to declare, at the start of the page, that all events... [matching these conditions]... What are you declaring about these events? That they are WMBC Birmingham Branch field trips; and thus that the summary for each event is WMBC Birmingham Branch field trip. Have you seen my first post in this thread? -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] [citation] Call for scope check (was Re: Citation: next steps?)
Why aren't we looking for an established format to fulfill our 80/20
requirement and become a
good 1:1 scope?
BibTex does authors like this,
@article {
Author = {Vicente, Kim J. and Rasmussen, Jens}
...
}
While EndNote does it like this:
record
contributors
authors
authorVicente, Kim J./author
authorRasmussen, Jens/author
/authors
/contributors
...
/record
BibDesk[1] also exports the following:
dd class=Pub
span class=AuthorVicente, Kim J. and Rasmussen, Jensspan
...
/dd
Perhaps instead of wheel reinvention, we should look to one of these
well-used citation formats.
Is there any reason why neither BibTex nor EndNote fields are listed
in the citation-examples
page of the wiki? They seem the closest thing to what we're looking
for, i.e. BibTex could be to
hCite what vCard is to hCard. Blithely creating our own format seems
reckless and doomed to
obscurity.
[1]: http://bibdesk.sourceforge.net/
--
Ryan Cannon
Interactive Developer
MSI Student, School of Information
University of Michigan
http://RyanCannon.com
On Sep 22, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Michael McCracken
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/22/06, Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/22/06, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That is the most straightforward way, yes. The problem I have
with it
is the repeated role term will be displayed for every
contributor, and
will likely end up being more hidden data.
No, I'm saying have two main terms: creator and contributor.
Only add a role when it actually needs to be displayed (which is not
the case for an author). Using creator for author is fine.
So you're saying that for the common case where creator is clear
enough, it'd look like this:
span class=citation
span class=creator vcardauthor1/span
span class=creator vcardauthor2/span
span class=title article title/span
...
/span
And then only use 'role' where necessary to clear things up?
I like that, and now I see where you said it earlier, but I missed
it then.
This sounds like a good solution. What does everyone else think?
Also, what's the next issue to resolve before we can put out a draft?
-mike
--
Michael McCracken
UCSD CSE PhD Candidate
research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/
misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/
___
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Re: [uf-discuss] New wiki page: FireFox Extensions
On 9/22/06 4:35 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does what it says on the tin: http://microformats.org/wiki/firefox-extensions Thanks creating this page Andy. Note also the Greasemonkey page: http://microformats.org/wiki/greasemonkey Perhaps these two can be combined or related/linked in some way? Thanks, Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] Call for scope check (was Re: Citation: next steps?)
On 9/22/06 4:48 PM, Ryan Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why aren't we looking for an established format to fulfill our 80/20 requirement and become a good 1:1 scope? We are. There is much debate about which format to re-use existing property names etc. from. Perhaps instead of wheel reinvention, we should look to one of these well-used citation formats. Is there any reason why neither BibTex nor EndNote fields are listed in the citation-examples page of the wiki? That's what the citation-formats page is for. Pre-existing formats such as BibTex and EndNote. http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats Thanks, Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Use of abbr (also object) and Accessibility
I'm replying a bit out of order here since I only just subscribed to this list. In message C138691F.7B722%tantek at cs.stanford.edu, Tantek Çelik tantek at cs.stanford.edu wrote: OBJECT has been problematic in Safari for quite some time, and still is AFAIK. I think you may be basing this on out-of-date information, as the current Safari 1.3 and Safari 2.0 have pretty good object support. In terms of bug-reporting, I'd suggest pointing the Safari team at the draft HTML 4.01 test suite to *at least* pass all the test cases there. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/current/ Many of these tests are outright wrong. For example, no browser that I tested, including Mac IE, passes the following test. And what it is testing does not appear to be at all justified by the HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/current/tests/sec13_3-BF-01.html That being said, there does appear to be a genuine bug with falling back from img objects that point to a broken image. I filed it as http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10992 http://tantek.com/log/2005/01.html#d26t0100 Following the descriptions contained within that post, it is trivial to construct perhaps a half dozen or so OBJECT test cases which Safari fails. In current Safari, object data=20050125January 25/object works just fine as expected. As to your other earlier points: * It doesn't handle object fallbacks -- Current Safari handles object fallbacks fine. * it doesn't know when not to handle object mime types that it doesn't support -- I'm not sure what this means, but you do get fallback on an unsupported MIME type. * it doesn't support display:inline on object -- It certainly does, in fact this is the default display type for object. * it doesn't do proper intrinsic sizing of object replaced elements -- It does for image types as long as you specify the content type correctly. Which I think is the only case where this is relevant. It is true that a lot of this didn't work as well in previous Safari versions. We would also be happy to fix any remaining object (or other) bugs that impede microformat design. Please let us know if you have specific ones to report. Regards, Maciej P.S. In the case of dates I think abbr is a better choice than object since object is much more heavyweight in terms of implementation. I wouldn't recommend the use of object unless you actually intend to embed content from an external resource. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] New wiki page: FireFox Extensions
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Does what it says on the tin: http://microformats.org/wiki/firefox-extensions Thanks creating this page Andy. Note also the Greasemonkey page: http://microformats.org/wiki/greasemonkey Perhaps these two can be combined or related/linked in some way? Done (under see also). -- Andy Mabbett Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] [citation] Call for scope check (was Re: Citation: next steps?)
On 9/22/06, Ryan Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They seem the closest thing to what we're looking for, i.e. BibTex could be to hCite what vCard is to hCard. Blithely creating our own format seems reckless and doomed to obscurity. I've certainly invested a lot of time and effort in BibTeX - I wrote BibDesk** - so I can sympathize with not wanting to reinvent that wheel, but it's been pointed out convincingly enough to me that BibTeX does not cover 80% of usage on the web right now. If you think it does (as I did) you just need to look outside your research area. See the list archives for examples of things BibTeX handles poorly - patents, case law, works of art, etc. You do make the important point that choosing wisely from existing property-naming schemes is critical for adoption. This week's discussion of marking up contributors is an example of the tension between that and needing to be flexible enough for actual uses on the web, as documented in citation-examples. Right now it looks like the consensus (of people who have had time to post) is that erring slightly on the side of flexibility (as opposed to copying the most familiar property names) *in the case of the people involved in a cited work*, is the way to go. -mike **- Originally.. BibDesk since about version 1.0 has been largely the work of the estimable Adam Maxwell and Christiaan Hofman... On Sep 22, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/22/06, Bruce D'Arcus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/22/06, Michael McCracken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is the most straightforward way, yes. The problem I have with it is the repeated role term will be displayed for every contributor, and will likely end up being more hidden data. No, I'm saying have two main terms: creator and contributor. Only add a role when it actually needs to be displayed (which is not the case for an author). Using creator for author is fine. So you're saying that for the common case where creator is clear enough, it'd look like this: span class=citation span class=creator vcardauthor1/span span class=creator vcardauthor2/span span class=title article title/span ... /span And then only use 'role' where necessary to clear things up? I like that, and now I see where you said it earlier, but I missed it then. This sounds like a good solution. What does everyone else think? Also, what's the next issue to resolve before we can put out a draft? -mike -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/ misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
