[uf-discuss] adr in Operator
One more change I'm considering for Operator. Removing support for an adr by itself in the UI. Basically the problem is that unlike just about other microformat (except geo), there's really nothing good to display for adr in the UI (the address just looks silly). And because I try so hard to figure out an address to display, It causes performance problems. The reason I originally added adr support was a hack for hCards that had multiple addresses, but I have since fixed that so an hCard can have Google Maps as a nested menu that contains both addresses. So the question is this: Should I remove it completely since 99.% of adrs are in hCards? Or should I just make it not on the toolbar by default? Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Operator's support for Include-pattern in hcards ?
If you could out a testcase up, that would be great. Thanks Mike On 10/9/07, LucaP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Dimitry your suggestion fixed it! I still see problems with multiple-words family-names given-names in Operator. ciao ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Microformats and accessibility (again)
See: http://kidachi.kazuhi.to/blog/archives/002343.html I was disappointed with his comment - he means that Operator won't catch title attribute of span element in hCalendar as far as the community doesn't get one concrete conclusion. (BTW Tails and Tails Export can find my hCalendar as I expected.) Is this true? Tails and Tails export find title on non abbr elements? If this is the case, it would mean an old version of X2V does this since that's what they use Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Microformats and Firefox 3
I think some folks here are missing the point in the Microformats/Firefox 3 discussion. We are trying to foster a discussion about what to do with microformats in Firefox 3, we are not trying to tell you what we are going to do. This is a very difficult problem to solve and we need input on it. At this point, the microformats community has primarily been focused on marking up microformats. We want people to start thinking about how to communicate microformats to the user. So here are a few discussion points to get people focused: 1. Microformats UI in the browser needs to be a transient UI. That is, dedicating permanent space in the browser to a technology that is not available on most sites probably doesn't make much sense (at least at first). What does transient UI in a browser look like? 2. Microformats are in page, and there needs to be some way to indicate the microformats are available on the page that doesn't offend page authors. How can we accomplish this? Discuss. Incidentally, Operator was always intended to be a UI experiment in microformats. I'm finding that most people use the toolbar (probably because it's the default). But there are six different ways to interact with microformats in Operator (http://www.kaply.com/weblog/operator). Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Firefox 3
On 9/4/07, David Mead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would love to see a new button in the URL bar, like Flock has for when there is RSS, media streams or a SE plugin on the page. That is one feature of the new Flock I find I'm using a lot now. Note that Operator does have a URL button option in 0.8 I also think there should be something to check in the options panel so I can choose to have any action based on a microformat in the page, open a new tab or window, if it doesn't involve an external application. Maybe that's on a new tab within options where I can set the default handlers for different microformats? Actually, we honor the Firefox keystrokes for this. Try holding down the Ctrl button when you click on an action or using the middle mouse button. See: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/mouse Thank you for your comments! Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Firefox 3
On 9/4/07, Alex Faaborg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really like this idea, I just forward the post and mockups to the rest of our UX team and our lead engineer. I agree with Alex. This is a really great idea. Thanks for posting. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Nested Microformats and Operator
I wanted Jason to bring this up on the list because it is an interesting discussion. We display lots of stop in Operator (especially in hResume) that can't actually be used. hCalendars for experience are interesting, but unuseful as hCalendars. And hCards for my employment at a past employer aren't terribly interesting either. Should there be a way for people to have this information but not make it available as a vcard or vevent? Mike On 8/27/07, Jason Calabrese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've recently started to look into using some microformats on one of my projects and have been playing with Operator to get an idea of how they are being used elsewhere. Operator is a great way to see what microformats are contained on a page, but I think it might confuse the average user when a page contains a lot of nested data using core microformats such as hCard, adr, hCalendar, etc. For example on a LinkedIn public profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/steveganz You see 1 hResume, 1 adr, 10 hCard's, and 7 hCalendar's. In this case all the hCalendar events are from the experience part of the resume. I don't see any use for adding these to Google Calendar or exporting them. Also 9 of the hCard's wouldn't make sense to export or add to Yahoo Contacts since they contain only very basic information. An other example is a Google Maps search. In this case each result produces a hCard and contains an adr. Ideally these would be combined and shown as Contacts with addresses. Then each contact could be exported or viewed in Google or Yahoo maps. Have these types of issues been discussed before? Is there a way that a user script can hide nested data? I understand the value of reusing the core microformats and creating composite microformats. I think that in many cases users will want to interact with the primary composite format while still preforming actions based on the nested content. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] CalConnect vCard Workshop - September 18, 2007 - Cambridge, Massachusetts
And types on URLs! Mike On 7/10/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI; note on-line questionnaire. I would suggest that the microformat community is a key player, and that this is our opportunity to lobby for the inclusion of date-of-death, gender and perhaps place-of-birth/death (also useful in genealogy biography). In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Thewlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes CalConnect invites you to a a one-day open workshop on vCard and what should be done about it on Tuesday, September 18, 2007, at M.I.T. in Cambridge, Massachusetts. This event is _open_ to vendors, customers, CalConnect members and non-members alike. There is no fee, but you _must_ register in advance and numbers are limited. Please see http://www.calconnect.org/vcardworkshop.shtml for more information and links to the registration http://www.calconnect.org/vcardreg.shtml and logistics http://www.calconnect.org/vcardworkshoplogistics.shtml pages, a general discussion list http://www.calconnect.org/vcardworkshoplist.shtml about the workshop, and a questionnaire http://www.calconnect.org/vcardquestionnaire.shtml to give us more guidance to make the workshop as productive as possible. From the workshop introduction page: vCard is a well established standard for representing and transferring contact information on computer systems and mobile devices. Having been in use for a while, a number of areas of the specification have been noted as problematic and in need of revision for fixes or enhancements. To that end, CalConnect (the Calendaring Scheduling Consortium) is hosting a one day vCard-focused workshop event at M.I.T. in Cambridge, Massachusetts in September with the goal of bringing together the key players to help move forward vCard revision efforts. Note that an effort is already under way at the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) to develop a personal address book access protocol based on the CardDAV specification, and since that is based on vCard, a revision of the vCard specification will be taking place within the IETF. However, bringing together interested parties in a focused discussion at a workshop can help drive that effort and provide supporting input to it to ensure the specific needs of the key players is covered. The goal of the workshop is two-fold. First to determine the real interest in revising the vCard specification, and second to determine what needs to be revised and how to go about doing that. If you are not a CalConnect member, this is also an opportunity to stay on for Roundtable X http://www.calconnect.org/roundtable10.shtml as an observer, and we'd be delighted to have you; you will have to register separately for the Roundtable. Regardless of whether or not you are interested in attending the workshop, we would appreciate it very much if you would take a few minutes to fill out the questionnaire http://www.calconnect.org/vcardquestionnaire.shtml, as this will help provide the workshop participants with guidance as to the directions any progression on vCard should take. -- *Dave Thewlis, Executive Director Calconnect - The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium* +1 707 840 9391 (voice) · +1 707 498 2238 (mobile) http://www.calconnect.org · [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Confused about telephone numbers in hCard
On 7/1/07, Paul Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The trouble you're facing is that Tails is at version 0.3. The author says Thanks all for the feedback. I'm trying to construct a list . . . At this stage, Tails is incomplete and you will either need to be paitent until it works more properly, or for the interim, find some other solution than Tails. Just to be clear. This is not really a bug in Tails, it's a bug in the XSLT engine in Firefox. Since Tails uses XSLT, it has this problem. The problem has to do with case sensitivity in nodenames if I remember correctly Operator uses JavaScript to parse the DOM, so we don't have the problem. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Phone numbers not exported
Each tel needs to be unique. div class=tel span class=typeVoice/span: span class=value1-800-123-4567/span /div div class=tel span class=typeFax/span: span class=value1-800-123-7890/span /div That should fix it Mike Kaply On 6/26/07, Rickards, Julian (NDM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to put together an hCard and I thought that I had the format correct but when I parse it through X2V, the voice and fax numbers are not coming through. The code is: div class=vcard divspan class=fnJames Brown/span,/div div class=adr divspan class=street-address123 Any Street/span,/div divspan class=localitySudbury/span, abbr title=Ontario class=regionON/abbr, span class=country-nameCanada/span/div div class=postal-codeP3E 4A6/div /div div class=tel divspan class=typeVoice/span: span class=value1-800-123-4567/span/div divspan class=typeFax/span: span class=value1-800-123-7890/span/div /div div class=x2vlinka href=http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hcard/get-contact.php?uri= http://www.mndm.gov.on.ca/mndm/mines/lands/hcard.html;Download contact to Outlook/a/div /div and the page is located at http://www.mndm.gov.on.ca/mndm/mines/lands/hcard.html. Help would be appreciated. TIA, Jules -- Julian Rickards Geoscience Data Conversion Technician Provincial Recording Office, Level B3 Sudbury, ON P3E 6B5 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (705) 670-5861, Fax: (705) 670-5881 ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] geo in Firefox 3 (as: Microformats gets strong showing in Firefox 3 UI)
The problem with geo is that it is horrible to show in a UI. The microformat only specifies a lat/long (no title) and there is no guarantee there is anything interesting to show in the UI. For a typical end user, geo just doesn't make a lot of sense. It's a geek feature. You will be able to add geo support similar to how Operator works, with a user script. Mike On 6/7/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Kaply [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes One last thing, are there any thoughts on which microformats would be supported by the Firefox UI? Would it be all of them? Maybe it would only be those that are specs and not drafts? Yes. At this point it will probably be hCard, hCalendar, Address and maybe geo. Why only maybe geo? I think there is a strong case for including geo, especially once KML and GPX export are available. Where is this being discussed, and how is it best to make one's views known, or to vote? -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Microformats gets strong showing in Firefox 3 UI
On 6/6/07, Toby A Inkster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Kaply wrote: I'm the one to talk to. And yeah, I think the cursor isn't so good for that reason. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with the perfect microformats UI. My vote would be (at slight risk of littering) an address bar icon with a drop-down menu to access each microformat item on a page. I just got the address bar icon in Operator just for fun, and I have to say that based on everything I've done, I personally like it the best. You'll be able to experiment with it in Operator 0.8b. My primary goal with Firefox 3 is to get a core microformats backend available so that UI experimentation with microformats will be much easier. It's obvious from the discussions here that everyone has great ideas, and it would be nice to see the microformats internals done by the browser so that people can focus on interesting ways to use the information. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Problems parsing ufs
Interesting. That's tricky. Basically what I do in Operator is look for any DOM node with the class URL that is a child of the review. Obviously I'm getting the one in the hcard/hcalendar. I'll have to think about that. Mike On 6/6/07, Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two problems I'm having at the moment (very related): - If I use a hReview uf where the review doesn't have a url of its own but does include a hCard which does have a url both tails and operator seem to suggest that the url for the review is that for the hCard - If I use an event uf and the event doesn't have a url of it's own but the contact does, again both tails and operator seem to suggest that the url of the event is that of the person Seems that the url of the event or the review is taken to be the first descendent a element with a class of url rather than the first descendent a element with a class of url which is not a descendent of an hCard which is a descendent of the review/event Does this make sense? What am I doing wrong? http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats gets strong showing in Firefox 3 UI
On 6/5/07, Montgomery, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the idea of an icon that is activated when microformat content is available as mentioned by Paul. It would provide an immediate visual cue that information is available without direct user interaction such as having to hover of content or right-clicking. It would also provide a way to indicate information that may be hidden on the page. I picture it being similar to the RSS feed icon. Maybe it is something that also appears in the address bar. I'm considering experimenting with putting a microformats icon on the URL bar similar to the RSS icon, but that would be Operator only. The Firefox folks specifically don't want to clutter up that bar. The basic problem with Firefox is that they don't want to clutter the UI with something that might not be used a lot (this is a statement about all microformats in the UI) For the record, I actually like the way the Operator add-on works in Firefox. It provides the mircoformat information broken down in different categories (contacts, calendar, maps, etc.) in the tool bar and the Options menu, it provides the ability to Highlight microformats on the page when you mouseover them (similar to the cursor concept). I also like the fact I can turn off this feature. However, I know that an entire tool bar takes up a lot of browser real estate and something more compact would be better. That was really my goal to provide as many UI paradigms as possible in Operator so that people could decide which they liked the best. If people don't like the toolbar, they can use the Operator toolbar button or the Operator status bar icon. One of the ideas I have which isn't done yet is to provide certain microformats as standalone toolbar buttons (like a Contacts toolbar button). One last thing, are there any thoughts on which microformats would be supported by the Firefox UI? Would it be all of them? Maybe it would only be those that are specs and not drafts? Yes. At this point it will probably be hCard, hCalendar, Address and maybe geo. There will be no rel based microformats. The reason for no rel based microformats is because if you think about it, they are difficult to detect efficiently. For instance, detecting XFN requires seeing if the rel attribute contains one or more of 18 different things. Not very efficient. Detecting classes is much more straightforward. The reason I'm doing Address is the same reason I put it in Operator - it doesn't make sense to do things like search google maps on an hCard, since the hCard is not the address, and the hCard can contain more than one address. Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats gets strong showing in Firefox 3 UI
On 6/3/07, John Beales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Things can still change, but after talking a bit with the Firefox 3 folks - Microformats are starting to look more and more like they're going to be supported in a big way in the next major release of the browser. http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/06/01/the-user-interface-of-firefox-3-features/ That looks great, it'll greatly improve the marketability of microformats. One thing though - and if you could tell me the correct place to let the Mozilla folks know about this - they should be careful about changing the cursor for a microformat - sometimes an hCard, for example, will be the whole page, or at least a large portion of it, so no matter where the cursor is it'll be in the microformat state. I'm the one to talk to. And yeah, I think the cursor isn't so good for that reason. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with the perfect microformats UI. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Tails Export: new version
Does anyone have Robert De Bruin's email address that they can give me offline? I'd really like to talk to him about microformats in Firefox. Mike On 5/22/07, David Mead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've downloaded and tried it on a couple of sites and it works great. Thanks Andy. On 5/22/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a new version of Tails Export: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2240?id=2240 which is - at last! - compatible with the version 2 of FireFox. -- Andy Mabbett * Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/ * Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk * Are you using Microformats, yet: http://microformats.org/ ? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] User Interface for Firefox/Operator
If someone creates a web page that takes hcalendars and generates a timeline, I'll be more than happy to write an action for it... On 5/10/07, Costello, Roger L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Mike, I'd like to add another item to my wish list for Operator: Mashup a web page containing events (hCalendar) with the Timeline widget[1]. [1] http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/ /Roger -Original Message- From: Costello, Roger L. Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:12 AM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: RE: [uf-discuss] User Interface for Firefox/Operator Hey Mike, Here's my wish list for Operator: 1. Suppose a web page has multiple geo Microformats. The Operator Find a Google Map currently allows only a mashup of one geo Microformat at a time with Google Maps. I would like an option that would display all the geo Microformats simultaneously. For example, a web page that shows the route of an airplane may have a geo Microformat for each waypoint. I would like to be able to view on Google Maps all the waypoints simultaneously. 2. Suppose the geo Microformat is part of an hCard. The Find a Google Map currently only shows the lat/lon values on the Google Map. It would be nice if Operator would scoop up some of the other information in the hCard, such as name and address, and display it on the Google Map. 3. An XHTML document is an XML document. Operator recognizes Microformats in XHTML XML documents, but not other XML documents. For example, here is an XML document that has an embedded hCard: ?xml version=1.0? hotel class=vcard name class=fn orgWaldorf-Astoria/name location class=adr street class=street-address301 Park Ave./street city class=localityNew York/city state class=regionNY/state zipcode class=postal-code10022/zipcode /location /hotel I would like to see Operator able to recognize Microformats in any XML document, not just XHTML XML documents. /Roger ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] uF Tools for Internet Explorer?
On 5/8/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this was the page mentioned a while back http://spaces.live.com/editorial/rayozzie/demo/liveclip/liveclipsample/clipboardexample.html btw ... I have Firebug (useful DOM-Inspector-like tool) installed in Firefox and on that page noticed it is showing some parsing errors generated by Operator (such as No fn specified) as javascript errors Those to blank microformats for pasting are technically invalid. Personally I think the live clipboard is a red herring. What we need to investigate is something like operator that works in page for microformats. I have thought about this, but it's not high on my list. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] User Interface for Firefox/Operator
Thanks Roger, I really want feedback like this! On 5/1/07, Costello, Roger L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Mike, Here's my wish list for Operator: 1. Suppose a web page has multiple geo Microformats. The Operator Find a Google Map currently allows only a mashup of one geo Microformat at a time with Google Maps. I would like an option that would display all the geo Microformats simultaneously. For example, a web page that shows the route of an airplane may have a geo Microformat for each waypoint. I would like to be able to view on Google Maps all the waypoints simultaneously. I'm pretty sure to do this, I'd have to have a website somewhere that accepted the points and displayed the page. Google Maps right now has no way to display multiple points at the same time from just a URL. Suggestions welcome. 2. Suppose the geo Microformat is part of an hCard. The Find a Google Map currently only shows the lat/lon values on the Google Map. It would be nice if Operator would scoop up some of the other information in the hCard, such as name and address, and display it on the Google Map. The hCard also has a Find with google maps. So you could use the address as well. Honestly, this is one of the things that always confused my about geo. How often to you need a geo vs an address? I understand if you are in the middle of the desert... 3. An XHTML document is an XML document. Operator recognizes Microformats in XHTML XML documents, but not other XML documents. For example, here is an XML document that has an embedded hCard: ?xml version=1.0? hotel class=vcard name class=fn orgWaldorf-Astoria/name location class=adr street class=street-address301 Park Ave./street city class=localityNew York/city state class=regionNY/state zipcode class=postal-code10022/zipcode /location /hotel I would like to see Operator able to recognize Microformats in any XML document, not just XHTML XML documents. I think this one should be straightforward to fix Thanks! Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] User Interface for Firefox/Operator
On 4/27/07, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mike, Is this going to be replacing XUL, XBL, etc etc? Actually, we're looking more for discussion just around how you would interact with microformats in the browser. For instance, do people like the Siderbar interface for Tails Export? Or do they prefer Tails? Or the Operator toolbar? should there be a button on the toolbar for Contacts/hCards? Or should microformat interaction be limited to buttons that perform actions (like add to Google Calendar). I'd really like to try to have a discussion with folks on this subject. Again, the forum is: https://labs.mozilla.com/forum/index.php/topic,77.0.html Thanks! Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Best practice for the abbr pattern
Both upcoming and eventful do not have dashes in their dates. They will need to be evangelized. Mike ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] User Interface for Firefox/Operator
If anyone is interested in helping define the user interface for microformat in Firefox 3 and Operator, we're trying to have a discussion at: https://labs.mozilla.com/forum/index.php/topic,77.0.html I'm open to any and all opinions/suggestions. Thanks Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] URLs in hrefs
On 4/20/07, Nic James Ferrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The reason that there has been little discussion is that the rules for dealing with this are well understood and settled. This document [1] will give you everything you need -- written in 1995. Regards, etc... [1] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1808.txt I disagree. I think Mikey raises a good point. When you're parsing bits of data from a page with xslt or javascript you sometimes have to do the url resolution yourself and that is not as simple as it should be. Actually for the record, in Javascript you never have to do it yourself. var bar = foo.getAttribute(href) foo is not resolved. var bar = foo.href foo IS resolved. Same with .src for images. Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Operator/hresume question
There is a bug in Operator here that I am not handling a vcard IN an experience. But we discussed this on the IRC, and I'm not sure you experience/vevent/vcard is correct. The spec says that the vcard is embedded in the experience, so the vcard should be a child of the experience. Mike Kaply On 4/10/07, Erin Caton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have recently put up my personal resume site and tried to microformat the hell out of it. More can be done, but I needed a break. :) http://erincaton.ca/resume.html When I check the hResume formatting with Operator using the debug mode in the structure tab, it doesn't include the experience information that is formatted with hCard such as the my job title, company name or url. These are shown as separate items under the hCard drop down though. Under hCalendar, the summary is shown in the drop down rather than the title of the position, which I would imagine to be how people would want to see it listed for a resume specifically. My affiliations are also not listed in the structure tab for hResume, but all of the appropriate information is listed in the source tab. Have I just marked it up incorrectly, or is this how it's supposed to work? Thanks, Erin. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Operator/hresume question
I've updated the hresume.js at: http://www.kaply.com/weblog/operator-user-scripts/ To fix this problem. It also handles your vevent/vcard as the same node, since I liked that syntax :) Mike Kaply On 4/11/07, Erin Caton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I just re-marked up the last of my experiences (object 5) to have the vcard as a child of the experience and it gives me the same display in the hResume debug mode (no title or org, or org url). complain I realize a lot of this is set in stone already, but from a XHTML design perspective, having to embed so many child attributes is really disheartening. It bulks up the code significantly and turns normally pretty and clean markup into a mass of divs and spans. If you're within the parent class of hResume, shouldn't you be able to combine some of these elements to increase the ease of markup? It seems reasonable to me to imagine that all experiences in a resume would contain a date and contact of some sort. Why make it harder to accomplish? Having shown a lot of this markup to various designer friends, the response has generally been Ugh - it looks like that? I'm not doing *that* to my code. I understand the ideals behind it, but having to embed the core building blocks as such pains me. /complain That said, I want it to be correct. Now object 5 looks like this, how would I fix it to display properly? div class=experience vevent div class=vcard object data=#erin class=include/object div id=p6 class=positionh3span class=titleAssistant to the Producer/span, span class=orgArctic Jungle Films/span/h3/div div id=exp_6 class=more expa href=http:// www.arcticjungle.com class=urlimg src=/images/job/arcticjungle/ lgo_exho.gif alt=Exploring Horizons television show. title=Click to see the Arctic Jungle Films and Exploring Horizons web site. border=0 class=right width=110 height=97 //a pEntertainment industry, span class=locationToronto, Ontario/spanbr / span class=dtstartJuly 1998/span #8211; span class=dtendAugust 1999/span/p p class=summaryRan mobile office (12 locations) for two seasons of #x201c;Exploring Horizons#x201d; traveling documentary, broadcast on Outdoor Life Network and Travel Channel. Researched locations and shooting events as well as organized promotional event filming. Logged tapes and translated English to French tape logs. On camera appearances./p/div /div /div Also, thank you for taking the time to look at this! Erin. On 11-Apr-07, at 9:46 AM, Mike Kaply wrote: There is a bug in Operator here that I am not handling a vcard IN an experience. But we discussed this on the IRC, and I'm not sure you experience/vevent/vcard is correct. The spec says that the vcard is embedded in the experience, so the vcard should be a child of the experience. Mike Kaply On 4/10/07, Erin Caton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have recently put up my personal resume site and tried to microformat the hell out of it. More can be done, but I needed a break. :) http://erincaton.ca/resume.html When I check the hResume formatting with Operator using the debug mode in the structure tab, it doesn't include the experience information that is formatted with hCard such as the my job title, company name or url. These are shown as separate items under the hCard drop down though. Under hCalendar, the summary is shown in the drop down rather than the title of the position, which I would imagine to be how people would want to see it listed for a resume specifically. My affiliations are also not listed in the structure tab for hResume, but all of the appropriate information is listed in the source tab. Have I just marked it up incorrectly, or is this how it's supposed to work? Thanks, Erin. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCard email type properties
On 3/11/07, Kim Franch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a href=FooBarRedirect abbr class=email title=[EMAIL PROTECTED] span class=type title=internet prefEmail FooBar/span /abbr /a This markup is incorrect. title can only be used with an abbr - the title on a span wont work. Why aren't you just using a mailto? a href=FooBarRedirect abbr class=url title=www.foo.comFooBar Webpage/abbr /a This works for me in the the current operator. I don't understand why you are using this pattern though? Why not just have a anchor that points to the web page? Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel-tag title as tag value
On 2/26/07, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could create a directory for each tag. For example... http://dogear.example.com/html/tag/collaboration/ http://dogear.example.com/html/tag/programming/ http://dogear.example.com/html/tag/linguistics/ Again server changes Incidentally, has anyone that worked on rel-tag ever read this: http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#uri-opacity Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel-tag title as tag value
On 2/27/07, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say if you're restricted to using a single tag space, and you don't have enough control over that tag space to create directories (a functionality available on any server), you have an exceptional case not covered by rel-tag. But there's no reason you need to restrict your markup to what's covered by rel-tag. If there's some alternative format to the URLs in your mandatory tag space, just adapt the tools you want to look for your format. Almost all of them are open source. This all points back to the original problem which I still haven't got a good explanation for. Microformats that require no custom changes to servers or web page: XFN hCard hCalendar hAtom hReview Address hResume xFolk Microformats that require specific settings on your web server, and access by the user to configure that web server if necessary and a very specific syntax that you might not be able to accomplish with your configuration: rel-tag Does anyone see the disconnect or just me? Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel-tag title as tag value (Was: Should microformat features (like rel-tag) have explicit scope?)
Let me post a concrete example in this arena, and maybe someone can come up with some suggestions. Let's say your company has an internal version of delicious. The URLs look like this: http://dogear.example.com/html?tag=collaboration How do you tag this using rel tag? If one of the fundamental principles of microformats is the ability to add microformats to existing web pages, how does it work with existing tagspaces that don't conform? And please don't say harass the developer of the application. That's being done. The fact remains that the website is already out, and that's not an easy thing to do. And also, please don't say use an external tagspace The tag might be an internal only product or a codename, so the tagspace belongs inside the company. Suggestions? Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel-tag title as tag value
On 2/26/07, Derrick Lyndon Pallas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, you're the only one that can evaluate your situation; if you want to make your application work with rel-tag, you need a conforming tag-space. The easiest thing to do would be to set up a redirect that takes URLs of the form http://dogear.example.com/html/tag/collaboration and maps them to existing URLs of the form http://dogear.example.com/html?tag=collaboration. Then link to the former when using rel-tag. This should be very simple to set up in most web servers and will help you transition to using the new, nicely named tagspace. ~D So in order to support the rel-tag microformat I have to do server redirects? Is anyone seeing the problem here? The answer is, while on apache servers, using mod_rewrite or redirects is fairly easy, there are app server configurations where redirects are not as simple as this. So redirects are not a solution. I want a solution that involves the web page, NOT the server. Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [advocacy] Contacting Blogger (was Re: [uf-discuss] Rel-tag issues...)
On 2/12/07, James Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott Reynen wrote: This may not solve 100% of issues, but I think Blogger could make over 90% of plain-old web hosts work with the current rel-tag spec by simply uploading tagname/index.html instead of tagname.html and then point links to tagname/ (which resolves to index.html on most plain-old web hosts). The simplest solution is usually the best, eh? Good idea. *slaps forehead* For the record though, I still think there should be markup-only fallback, such as putting the tagName in a title attribute. either a rel=tag href=/search/tag/fooAll uses of FOO/a or a rel=tag title=foo href=/search?tag=fooAll uses of FOO/a Is there a reason that the use of the title attribute wasn't considered for specifying the tag when it couldn't be specified in the URL? Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] OpenID
The problem here is that there is concept of types in URLS All parsers see is multiple URLS. We don't know which is the openid URL... Mike Kaply On 2/20/07, John Panzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thom Shannon wrote: Hi, Forgive me if this is going over old ground, I just joined this list and couldn't find what I was looking for on the wiki. Are there any particular conventions emerging for embedding an OpenID into a hCard? The openid-brainstorming page mentions using hCard on providers profile pages etc, but I was thinking there should be a way to have your OpenID on other profiles that can easily be consumed, allowing someone to see you on social network A and add you on their social network B based on you using the same OpenID. I'm guessing it would be as simple as a class=url fn openid href=http://ts0.com;? Just wanted to know what others are doing. I actually have the same question. At the moment we're doing this: span class=vcarda class=fn urlhref=http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn; target=_blankpanzerjohn/a/span where http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn is an OpenID URL (or will be shortly). A live example is at http://beta.journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer. I had been thinking it might be useful to be explicit about the fact that the target is not just a url, but also an openid. If people think that's a good idea I can add it in to our code. -John ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [advocacy] Contacting Blogger (was Re: [uf-discuss] Rel-tag issues...)
On 2/11/07, Kevin Marks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 11, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Ben Buchanan wrote: It contains a rel='tag' href=http://itn278.200ok.com.au/labels/testing.html;testing/a which is what the new Blogger was producing on Jan 31st (page template is one of the standard Blogger templates, I think one or two modifications but nothing which would effect the output of tags). Try making a fresh post, or republishing that one. This may be a blogger issue with publishing via ftp? When I debugged this problem, that is exactly what I discovered. It is only broke when you publish via FTP. It is not broke when you are hosted by blogger. I switched to WordPress because of this problem. Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] More than one value for tel, fax, email?
On 1/20/07, Webadmin - Tenbus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brilliant! Thanks Tim! I've removed the voice and it's now picking both 'phone number up and filing them (in Outlook 2002 SP3) as Business and Business2. Now - let's see if I make it see two fax numbers and two e-mail addresses ;-) I don't think you'll be able to get two fax numbers working. Although Outlook has a second place for a fax number (Other fax), there doesn't appear to be a way to indicate this in the vCard file. If I give other fax a value and then export the vcard, the number is lost. If there is a way to mark this up so it will work, I would be more than happy to change Operator to do so... Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Operator Usability Question
I apologize for asking an Operator question to the microformats group, but this functionality will probably be most used by you all, so you are the right people to ask. Currently, holding down the Ctrl Key when clicking on an entry in Operator displays the HTML and holding down the shift key when clicking displays the content as I store it in an internal structure. Unfortunately, my choice of the Ctrl key was a bad one, since the Ctrl key is used to affect tabbed browser behavior. I'd like to change Operator so that when the Ctrl key is held down when clicking, it opens the web page specific to the operator action in a background tab. The only keyboard action I'm left with using is Ctrl+Shift at the same time (alt isn't available). So, here's the question. Of the two actions I provide, which is the most useful to microformat developers, seeing the source of the microformat or how I interpret it? Should I assign the Shift key to displaying the microformat and Ctrl+Shift to displaying my internal representation (since I may be the only one that uses it) Alternatively, should I simply add menu items that correspond to these two actions when Operator is in debug mode and get rid of the keystrokes completely. Or perhaps a menuitem to display the HTML, and the hidden action (Ctrl key) displays the internal representation. Thanks for any input you can provide. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hCalendar include: check, please (inc. possible but in Operator extension)
Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have used two includes, for location and summary, in the hCalendar of the first event on: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/kidderminster/indoor.htm (styles are in-line, only during development) but it's not recognised by neither Tails or Operator; the latter says its invalid, but gives a blank dialogue box when selected. Nor does the Almost Universal parser find the summary or location of that event. The includes were something I just learned about and at the moment they only work for vcards. I will make a note that I need to generalize object usage for all vcards. Thanks Mike Kaply ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
