Re: Getting envolved
Le mercredi 12 dC)cembre 2007 C 11:22 -0800, Ted Unangst a C)crit : On 12/12/07, Mathieu Stumpf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my mind software quality also depends on ease of use. So I would be happy to help improve OpenBSD by making it easier to install and use. But I don't know if you would be interesting by this kind of 'improvement'. I don't want to waste your time nor mine, so I ask first. most developers are convinced the installer is about as easy to use as possible. other parts of the system could possibly use some improvement, but keep in mind that easy to use and simple aren't the same for many people, and openbsd really values simple. I agree easy to use and sample are not the same for everyone. That's why, to my mind, a good installer should provide several methods to install. If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P Best regards.
Re: : : rouge IPs / user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 02:25:21AM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote: Otto Moerbeek wrote: I'm only talking about the tear-down. The three-way handshake happens before that, both sockets are in ESTABSLIHED state. You have to read half-close as a verb (action), and half-open as a description of the state of the connection. Check the state transition diagram, and maybe do some reading in Stevens's TCP/Illustrated Volume I (which has the state diagram on the inside cover ;-) I did a lots of reading and I cleared my miss understanding looks like and see where I confuse myself: 1) A socket gets into CLOSE_WAIT when the remote side sends a FIN and the local side sends an ACK, but has not yet sent it's FIN. 2) A socket gets into FIN_WAIT_2 when the local side closes the socket and sends a FIN (FIN_WAIT_1) and then receives an ACK for that FIN but has not yet received a FIN from the remote side. I got confuse as I can't never see any CLOSE_WAIT on my server, no complain for sure but I see a FIN_WAIT_2 and obviously confuse the two. I am puzzled as to why they would get so many CLOSE_WAIT and I guess it might be an under power server may be that when the httpd child process is done, that the master, or what not don't have time to process it and as such keep the socket open because of that. Not sure, but I guess possible. In any case, I appreciate the reply and I sure clear that part of the handshake anyway, so I will not make the same mistakes again. (; Best, Daniel It's easy to force a socket into CLOSE_WAIT On server: $ nc -l 1 On client: $ nc 1 That gets you ESTABLISHED on both sides. ^Z the server side close the client side by typing ^D The client moves to FIN_WAIT_2, and the server to CLOSE_WAIT. fg the server process The client moves to TIME_WAIT and the server socket will disappear. It's depening on the application if sockets staying in CLOSE_WAIT are a problem or not: it might be intentional (in the hulp duplex case), or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. -Otto BTW: it's volume II that has the state diagram on the inside cover. Volume I has it in chapter 18, after the discussion of half-close.
Re: Getting envolved
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:44:35AM +0100, Mathieu Stumpf wrote: Le mercredi 12 dC)cembre 2007 C 11:22 -0800, Ted Unangst a C)crit : On 12/12/07, Mathieu Stumpf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my mind software quality also depends on ease of use. So I would be happy to help improve OpenBSD by making it easier to install and use. But I don't know if you would be interesting by this kind of 'improvement'. I don't want to waste your time nor mine, so I ask first. most developers are convinced the installer is about as easy to use as possible. other parts of the system could possibly use some improvement, but keep in mind that easy to use and simple aren't the same for many people, and openbsd really values simple. I agree easy to use and sample are not the same for everyone. That's why, to my mind, a good installer should provide several methods to install. If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P Best regards. That's all fine, but your mum is probably not an OpenBSD developer. The main target audience for OpenBSD are the developers. We make what suits us. And we are not computer users with average or below average skills. That does not mean we like to make things complicated, far from that. We do however expect our users to have some knowledge and skills. Luckily there are a lot of people around that have similar views and needs as the developers. Any other person or group liking the results is free to use it for whatever thay want. Maybe to make something that's easier to install for *their* intended audience. But that installer probably won't make it into the base system. Please do not read this as a discouragement to get involved. But if you want to create something that supposed to go into the base system, it really should cater for the needs of the main body of users. -Otto
Re: login_radius possible changes.
Yes, I did test it many times.
login_radius as it is in current does not work
for me at all.
Did I test it for all cases/scenarios..?
No, I doubt it.
-Brad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:00:46 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:35:36PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:47:54AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Hi Otto,
Thank you for looking at this.
My question is now what would be the right way to do this...?
This radius server(AAA) has a 3 try lock out.
Without this patch login_radius checks 2 times with a blank password
which will allow the user only 1 chance to enter a correct password
before it locks the account.
You are comparing pointers, not strings.
I'll elaborate a bit more. Comparing to an empty string should be done
like
strcmp(password, ) != 0
or
password[0] != '\0'
Since your string compare is obviously wrong, I can only assume you
did not test your diff. At least not for all cases it should handle.
Also, I'm missing a man page addition.
-Otto
-Brad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:28:13 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:40:15AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Would it be possible to change login_radius.c actually raddauth.c so
that:
1. The admin can change what port login_radius uses, such as the
old datametrics port. It is currently hard coded to radius(1812).
2. Make it so it does not try an empty password 2 times before it
kicks
back a
prompt asking for a password.
This is the diff/changes I had in mind.
--- radius_current/raddauth.c Tue Dec 11 12:28:41 2007
+++ raddauth.cWed Dec 12 00:29:43 2007
@@ -117,6 +117,7 @@
int retries;
int sockfd;
int timeout;
+char *radius_port;
in_addr_t alt_server;
in_addr_t auth_server;
@@ -168,6 +169,10 @@
timeout = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-timeout, 2, 2);
retries = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-retries, 6, 6);
+ radius_port = login_getcapstr(lc, radius-port, NULL, NULL);
+
+ if (radius_port == NULL) radius_port = radius;
+
if (timeout 1)
timeout = 1;
if (retries 2)
@@ -209,7 +214,7 @@
}
/* get port number */
- svp = getservbyname (radius, udp);
+ svp = getservbyname (radius_port, udp);
if (svp == NULL) {
*emsg = No such service: radius/udp;
return (1);
@@ -271,7 +276,7 @@
}
}
- if (retries 0) {
+ if (retries 0 passwd != ) {
That cannot be right
rad_request(req_id, userstyle, passwd, auth_port, vector,
pwstate);
@@ -417,9 +422,9 @@
auth.length = htons(total_length);
/* get radius port number */
- rad_port = getservbyname(radius, udp);
+ rad_port = getservbyname(radius_port, udp);
if (rad_port == NULL)
- errx(1, no such service: radius/udp);
+ errx(1, no such service: %s/udp, radius_port);
memset(sin, 0, sizeof (sin));
sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
Thanks,
-Brad
Re: login_radius possible changes.
Yes, I did test it many times.
login_radius as it is in current does not work
for me at all.
Did I test it for all cases/scenarios..?
No, I doubt it.
-Brad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:00:46 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:35:36PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:47:54AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Hi Otto,
Thank you for looking at this.
My question is now what would be the right way to do this...?
This radius server(AAA) has a 3 try lock out.
Without this patch login_radius checks 2 times with a blank password
which will allow the user only 1 chance to enter a correct password
before it locks the account.
You are comparing pointers, not strings.
I'll elaborate a bit more. Comparing to an empty string should be done
like
strcmp(password, ) != 0
or
password[0] != '\0'
Since your string compare is obviously wrong, I can only assume you
did not test your diff. At least not for all cases it should handle.
Also, I'm missing a man page addition.
-Otto
-Brad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:28:13 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:40:15AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Would it be possible to change login_radius.c actually raddauth.c so
that:
1. The admin can change what port login_radius uses, such as the
old datametrics port. It is currently hard coded to radius(1812).
2. Make it so it does not try an empty password 2 times before it
kicks
back a
prompt asking for a password.
This is the diff/changes I had in mind.
--- radius_current/raddauth.c Tue Dec 11 12:28:41 2007
+++ raddauth.cWed Dec 12 00:29:43 2007
@@ -117,6 +117,7 @@
int retries;
int sockfd;
int timeout;
+char *radius_port;
in_addr_t alt_server;
in_addr_t auth_server;
@@ -168,6 +169,10 @@
timeout = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-timeout, 2, 2);
retries = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-retries, 6, 6);
+ radius_port = login_getcapstr(lc, radius-port, NULL, NULL);
+
+ if (radius_port == NULL) radius_port = radius;
+
if (timeout 1)
timeout = 1;
if (retries 2)
@@ -209,7 +214,7 @@
}
/* get port number */
- svp = getservbyname (radius, udp);
+ svp = getservbyname (radius_port, udp);
if (svp == NULL) {
*emsg = No such service: radius/udp;
return (1);
@@ -271,7 +276,7 @@
}
}
- if (retries 0) {
+ if (retries 0 passwd != ) {
That cannot be right
rad_request(req_id, userstyle, passwd, auth_port, vector,
pwstate);
@@ -417,9 +422,9 @@
auth.length = htons(total_length);
/* get radius port number */
- rad_port = getservbyname(radius, udp);
+ rad_port = getservbyname(radius_port, udp);
if (rad_port == NULL)
- errx(1, no such service: radius/udp);
+ errx(1, no such service: %s/udp, radius_port);
memset(sin, 0, sizeof (sin));
sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
Thanks,
-Brad
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
Re: login_radius possible changes.
Sorry I missed the point...
Yes, you are correct about 'passwd != ' my mistake.. I should have be using
strncmp.
This is what the diff should be:
--- raddauth.c 2007-12-13 00:38:24.0 -0800
+++ login_radius/raddauth.c 2007-12-13 00:31:35.0 -0800
@@ -117,6 +117,7 @@
int retries;
int sockfd;
int timeout;
+char *radius_port;
in_addr_t alt_server;
in_addr_t auth_server;
@@ -168,6 +169,10 @@
timeout = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-timeout, 2, 2);
retries = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-retries, 6, 6);
+ radius_port = login_getcapstr(lc, radius-port, NULL, NULL);
+
+ if (radius_port == NULL) radius_port = radius;
+
if (timeout 1)
timeout = 1;
if (retries 2)
@@ -190,7 +195,7 @@
passwd = getpass(Password:);
} else
passwd = password;
- if (passwd == NULL)
+ if (passwd == NULL)
passwd = ;
if ((v = login_getcapstr(lc, radius-server, NULL, NULL)) == NULL){
@@ -207,9 +212,9 @@
alt_retries = retries/2;
retries = 1;
}
-
+
/* get port number */
- svp = getservbyname (radius, udp);
+ svp = getservbyname (radius_port, udp);
if (svp == NULL) {
*emsg = No such service: radius/udp;
return (1);
@@ -271,7 +276,7 @@
}
}
- if (retries 0) {
+ if (retries 0 strncmp(passwd, , 1) != 0) {
rad_request(req_id, userstyle, passwd, auth_port, vector,
pwstate);
@@ -417,9 +422,9 @@
auth.length = htons(total_length);
/* get radius port number */
- rad_port = getservbyname(radius, udp);
+ rad_port = getservbyname(radius_port, udp);
if (rad_port == NULL)
- errx(1, no such service: radius/udp);
+ errx(1, no such service: %s/udp, radius_port);
memset(sin, 0, sizeof (sin));
sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:35:36 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:47:54AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Hi Otto,
Thank you for looking at this.
My question is now what would be the right way to do this...?
This radius server(AAA) has a 3 try lock out.
Without this patch login_radius checks 2 times with a blank password
which will allow the user only 1 chance to enter a correct password
before it locks the account.
You are comparing pointers, not strings.
-Otto
-Brad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:28:13 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:40:15AM -0800, Brad Arrington wrote:
Would it be possible to change login_radius.c actually raddauth.c so
that:
1. The admin can change what port login_radius uses, such as the
old datametrics port. It is currently hard coded to radius(1812).
2. Make it so it does not try an empty password 2 times before it
kicks
back a
prompt asking for a password.
This is the diff/changes I had in mind.
--- radius_current/raddauth.c Tue Dec 11 12:28:41 2007
+++ raddauth.c Wed Dec 12 00:29:43 2007
@@ -117,6 +117,7 @@
int retries;
int sockfd;
int timeout;
+char *radius_port;
in_addr_t alt_server;
in_addr_t auth_server;
@@ -168,6 +169,10 @@
timeout = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-timeout, 2, 2);
retries = login_getcapnum(lc, radius-retries, 6, 6);
+ radius_port = login_getcapstr(lc, radius-port, NULL, NULL);
+
+ if (radius_port == NULL) radius_port = radius;
+
if (timeout 1)
timeout = 1;
if (retries 2)
@@ -209,7 +214,7 @@
}
/* get port number */
- svp = getservbyname (radius, udp);
+ svp = getservbyname (radius_port, udp);
if (svp == NULL) {
*emsg = No such service: radius/udp;
return (1);
@@ -271,7 +276,7 @@
}
}
- if (retries 0) {
+ if (retries 0 passwd != ) {
That cannot be right
rad_request(req_id, userstyle, passwd, auth_port, vector,
pwstate);
@@ -417,9 +422,9 @@
auth.length = htons(total_length);
/* get radius port number */
- rad_port = getservbyname(radius, udp);
+ rad_port = getservbyname(radius_port, udp);
if (rad_port == NULL)
- errx(1, no such service: radius/udp);
+ errx(1, no such service: %s/udp, radius_port);
memset(sin, 0, sizeof (sin));
sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
Thanks,
-Brad
Re: KDE presents a distorted screen or quits in the middle of starting up
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Predrag Punosevac wrote: ever used in my life. On the another hand KDE is 200m very elaborate GUI coded for mostly with Linux in mind. I am not aware that one can use any Well, AFAIK they're actually very open to !linux systems, much more than GNOME for instance. of KDE graphical tools to configure any of the OpenBSD services.(I might be very wrong about this). OpenBSD does not have HAL. So it seems to me that kdeadmin is indeed not very usefull under OpenBSD, but the rest of KDE works really fine. running KDE is just a overkill. You do not need KDE to set a wall paper or to start applications. Moreover, My girlfriend does. That is way personally prefer to run a small WM of the system like OpenBSD. Yes, this is how *you* prefer to run things, but I can tell you, lots of other folks see a point in running KDE... (I personnaly usually run openbox). Cheers! -- Antoine
Re: no 4.2-stable package updates??
On 12.12-16:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried using pkgsrc-2007Q3 but it sucks. Updating userland in production environment with pkgsrc on a non-NetBSD platform is a nightmare. i'm working on this. will post when significant progress has been made. in my opinion having a working pkgsrc tree is better for everyone, doesn't mean we can't have an openbsd branch (so to speak) but unifying our efforts with others in this field will have benefits.
Re: login_radius possible changes.
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:20:51 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: login_radius possible changes. In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] so spake Brad Arrington (bradla): Would it be possible to change login_radius.c actually raddauth.c so that: 1. The admin can change what port login_radius uses, such as the old datametrics port. It is currently hard coded to radius(1812). I have no objection to this part, though it cam be done a bit more simply. Thank you, I would welcome a simpler solution. 2. Make it so it does not try an empty password 2 times before it kicks back a prompt asking for a password. I'm not at all sure about this. I would have to test this using challenge/response. Here is a sample of the tcpdump I get. [1] + Running tcpdump -i fxp0 dst host srv-aaa01.nojava.net 16:22:31.417176 d19216811.nojava.net.6984 srv-aaa01.nojava.net.datametrics: Axs? id:27 [41] Name = brada, Pass = [], NAS-IP = 192.168.1.1, NAS-Pt = 12393 16:22:36.418985 d19216811.nojava.net.6984 srv-aaa01.nojava.net.datametrics: Axs? id:27 [41] Name = brada, Pass = [], NAS-IP = 192.168.1.1, NAS-Pt = 12393 16:23:01.029570 d19216811.nojava.net.1594 srv-aaa01.nojava.net.datametrics: Axs? id:42 [57] Name = brada, Pass = [a91912z981a1z9c49da13ga1z1b1297], NAS-IP = 192.168.1.1, NAS-Pt = 0 The user only gets 3 tries before the account gets locked. This is why I must change the way login_radius(in this case raddauth.c) uses the variable passwd. - todd -Brad FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
Re: : no 4.2-stable package updates??
Raimo Niskanen wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:35:50AM +0100, Antoine Jacoutot wrote: This was announced on ports@ IIRC. So if there are security bugs in a package or port shipped with OpenBSD 4.2, there will be no updated package or updated port available? That is correct. Now, this will prevent me from upgrading to 4.2. This is bad. The solution is very simple though. Everyone has been told what was lacking in order to keep it up, so just make those resources available and it will spring back up again. Simple as that. Noone said we dont want stable packages.
Re: A very good OpenLDAP tutorial - Notes
Thanks a lot, it gives the opportunity to read something new. Now I know better about it. I think it's a good idea to share our current reading. On Dec 13, 2007 12:25 AM, badeguruji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.acay.com.au/~oscarp/tutor/ for all new Openldap users. thx, and sorry if you don't need this. -BG ~~Kalyan-mastu~~
Re: : no 4.2-stable package updates??
On (2007-12-13 10:28), Janne Johansson wrote: The solution is very simple though. Everyone has been told what was lacking in order to keep it up, so just make those resources available and it will spring back up again. Simple as that. Noone said we dont want stable packages. It's going to be handled, soon.
Re: Getting envolved
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:44:35 +0100 Mathieu Stumpf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I agree easy to use and sample are not the same for everyone. That's why, to my mind, a good installer should provide several methods to install. If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P MacOS may be a good choice for your mum? To put my opinion in the right perspectine, I confess that I am a newbie and have used Linux for some years relying heavily on GUI tools for configuration and administration. My profession does not require computing at all (!) and I will not even dream of writing any useful code. I simply do not have the skills. I think everyone understands your good intentions but (if you are new) try to read this list for a few months and you will understand why there is no graphical installer. OBSD is primarily a tool for developers. Obviously, any project depends on a large enough number of skillfull contributors. However, it has been made clear that OBSD does not care about me or your mum, common 'users'. I do not take offence by this attitude. I believe that we (users) are in the very fortunate position to be allowed to take advantage of the effort made by all developers. And for free, nothing is asked in return (except the the small token shown buying the CD sets)! Thank you Developers! Not only for giving me access to your software, the education that comes with it is equally appreciated. Back to your case or example, a mum with low computer skills. OBSD may newer be the right choice for her. If difficulties installing the OS is stopping her she will not likely be able to administrate her system without help. This helpfull person will install OBSD and any (well, almost any :-) application she would ever want or need. This is the least difficult part in creating a functional OBSD desktop. The installer and package management are easy for someone with basic understanding of some the concepts common in all Unix-like systems. Living with poorly documented hardware, some laptops or a box you don't put together yourself, can be a much harder experience. - Ulf
Re: no 4.2-stable package updates??
On 2007/12/12 14:54, Unix Fan wrote: Why even have a -CURRENT ports tree?... So that there are updated ports/packages for people running -current, and quite importantly, for the next release. IME it's a lot easier to run snapshots than -stable. Have you tried it, or did you just decide you might not like it, perhaps based on experience from another OS where development is structured differently?
Re: OSPF and CARP question
On 2007/12/12 16:18, Prabhu Gurumurthy wrote:
bge0: flags=8943UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
inet 172.21.171.6 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 172.21.171.255
bge1: flags=8943UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
inet 172.21.71.2 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 172.21.71.255
carp0: flags=8843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
carp: BACKUP carpdev bge0 vhid 1 advbase 1 advskew 0
inet 172.21.171.5 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 172.21.171.255
carp1: flags=8843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
carp: BACKUP carpdev bge1 vhid 2 advbase 1 advskew 0
inet 172.21.71.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 172.21.71.255
/etc/ospfd.conf:
interface carp0 {
interface carp1 {
interface bge1 {
interface bge0 {
remove bge* from ospfd.conf, your 172.21.171/24 and 172.21.71/24
are always being advertised because the bge interfaces stay up.
just list carp* in ospfd.conf and the advertisements will
track carp status, so you don't end up with states split between
firewalls.
Duplicate entries in the output of mixerctl
Hi, mixerctl output has some duplicate entries (duplicated names, but different values), which leaves me confused. Here is the output: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $] mixerctl outputs.dac.source=hdaudio outputs.line.source=dac2 outputs.line.mute=off outputs.line=124,124 outputs.line=85,85 outputs.line.dir=output outputs.line.boost=off outputs.line.eapd=off outputs.headphones.sour=dac2 outputs.headphones.mute=off outputs.headphones=124,124 outputs.headphones.boos=off outputs.speaker.mute=off outputs.speaker=124 outputs.mic=85,85 outputs.line.source=dac2 outputs.line.mute=off outputs.line=124,124 outputs.line=85,85 outputs.line.dir=output inputs.sel.source=dac2 inputs.sel2.source=beep outputs.sel2.mute=off outputs.sel2=119 outputs.sel3.mute=off outputs.sel3=120,120 outputs.sel4.mute=off outputs.sel4=120,120 outputs.sel5.mute=off outputs.sel5=120,120 outputs.pow.source=sel2 inputs.sel6.source=mix outputs.sel6.mute=off outputs.sel6=119,119 outputs.mic2.source=dac2 outputs.mic2.mute=off outputs.mic2=124,124 outputs.mic2=85,85 outputs.mic2.dir=output outputs.sel7.mute=off outputs.sel7=120,120 outputs.sel8.mute=off outputs.sel8=120,120 outputs.sel9.mute=off outputs.sel9=120,120 outputs.sel10.mute=off outputs.sel10=120,120 outputs.sel11.mute=off outputs.sel12.mute=off inputs.usingdac=03 (I have added empty lines around duplicated entries). Complete dmesg output is here: http://www.obscure.org/~amunix/dmesg.txt Can someone throw light on this? I am using azalia driver, on an ThinkPad X60 laptop. Thanks in advance. -Amarendra
Re: 4.2 i386 install fails on a HP Compaq dc7700
Greetings, Replaced the suspected CDR/DVD drive with another (known good working condition) Panasonic DVD (SATA) drive, the same result, install fails at the point of accessing the CD to install the software sets, so I swapped back the original (TSSTcorp) CDR/DVD drive. Below is the the full dmesg - after a successful ftp install: Last login: Fri Dec 14 01:47:54 2007 OpenBSD 4.2 (GENERIC) #375: Tue Aug 28 10:38:44 MDT 2007 Welcome to OpenBSD: The proactively secure Unix-like operating system. Please use the sendbug(1) utility to report bugs in the system. Before reporting a bug, please try to reproduce it with the latest version of the code. With bug reports, please try to ensure that enough information to reproduce the problem is enclosed, and if a known fix for it exists, include that as well. Terminal type? [vt100] # dmesg OpenBSD 4.2 (GENERIC) #375: Tue Aug 28 10:38:44 MDT 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6300 @ 1.86GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.87 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR real mem = 1047822336 (999MB) avail mem = 1005506560 (958MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 04/13/07, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xea0a0, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xeb960 (66 entries) bios0: vendor Hewlett-Packard version 786E1 v01.10 date 04/13/2007 bios0: Hewlett-Packard HP Compaq dc7700 Small Form Factor pcibios0 at bios0: rev 3.0 @ 0xea0a0/0x5de0 pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfe4c0/288 (16 entries) _pcibios0: no compatible PCI ICU found: ICU vendor 0x8086 product 0x2814_ _pcibios0: Warning, unable to fix up PCI interrupt routing_ pcibios0: PCI bus #32 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xb000! 0xcb000/0x1000 0xcc000/0x1000 0xcd000/0x800 0xe7600/0x8a00! acpi at mainbus0 not configured cpu0 at mainbus0 cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep disabled by BIOS pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82Q963 Host rev 0x02 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 82Q963 Graphics rev 0x02: aperture at 0xf040, size 0x800 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) _Intel 82Q963 HECI rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 not configured_ em0 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 Intel ICH8 IGP AMT rev 0x02: irq 5, address 00:1b:78:aa:35:32 uhci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 5 uhci1 at pci0 dev 26 function 1 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 11 ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 7 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 10 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801H PCIE rev 0x02 pci1 at ppb0 bus 32 uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 5 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 11 ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801H USB rev 0x02: irq 5 usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 ppb1 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BA AGP rev 0xf2 pci2 at ppb1 bus 7 skc0 at pci2 dev 9 function 0 3Com 3c940 rev 0x10, Yukon (0x1): irq 11 sk0 at skc0 port A: address 00:0a:5e:1a:5d:9e eephy0 at sk0 phy 0: Marvell 88E1011 Gigabit PHY, rev. 3 pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel 82801HO LPC rev 0x02 pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 82801H SATA rev 0x02: DMA, channel 0 configured to native-PCI, channel 1 configured to native-PCI pciide0: using irq 5 for native-PCI interrupt wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: ST380815AS wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 76319MB, 156301488 sectors wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5 atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0 scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: TSSTcorp, CDW/DVD TS-H493A, CD06 SCSI0 5/cdrom removable cd0(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5 usb2 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 usb3 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 usb4 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub4 at usb4: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 usb5 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub5 at usb5: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 isa0 at pcib0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0 pmsi0 at pckbc0 (aux slot) pckbc0: using irq 12 for aux slot wsmouse0 at pmsi0 mux 0 pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61 midi0 at pcppi0: PC speaker spkr0 at pcppi0 lpt0 at isa0 port 0x378/4 irq 7 npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception
Re: : : rouge IPs / user
On 2007/12/13 09:09, Otto Moerbeek wrote: It's depening on the application if sockets staying in CLOSE_WAIT are a problem or not: it might be intentional (in the hulp duplex case), or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. Does select() notify the application of FIN from the other side? If not, that would explain things, it wouldn't be reasonable for httpd to manually try and receive from all sockets in keepalive to see whether it needs to close the socket, since it will only wait KeepAliveTimeout (default 15s) before it closes them anyway.
Re: : : rouge IPs / user
Hi! On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:10:51AM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2007/12/13 09:09, Otto Moerbeek wrote: It's depening on the application if sockets staying in CLOSE_WAIT are a problem or not: it might be intentional (in the hulp duplex case), or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. Does select() notify the application of FIN from the other side? I haven't followed the rest of the thread, so answering this question out of context: Yes, FIN from the other side says that there'll be no other data from the other side, i.e. that'll lead to an EOF condition on the data stream. So after the application has read all the remaining data from the socket, the socket will be readable (in the sense of the read bit from select(), or POLLIN from poll(), or EVFILT_READ for kqueue/kevent) and if you read, it'll return 0, just the same as if you have EOF on files. [...] Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: : : rouge IPs / user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:10:51AM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2007/12/13 09:09, Otto Moerbeek wrote: It's depening on the application if sockets staying in CLOSE_WAIT are a problem or not: it might be intentional (in the hulp duplex case), Strange typo by me... that's a Dutch word, but not very relevant in this context. It should be half-duplex of course. Stupid autonomous fingers ;-) or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. Does select() notify the application of FIN from the other side? If not, that would explain things, it wouldn't be reasonable for httpd to manually try and receive from all sockets in keepalive to see whether it needs to close the socket, since it will only wait KeepAliveTimeout (default 15s) before it closes them anyway. Nice suggestion, but if you've marked the fd for read I would expect select to notify if the other side does a shutdown(SHUT_WR). Other scenarios are also thinkable: like the server socket being blocked because of outgoing data that cannot be written out. That might prevent the server from doing a close too. But in the end the close will happen, otherwise you would run out of fd's very soon. -Otto
Re: Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
Mats Erik Andersson wrote: Hello, three weeks I set up a Subversion/Apache2 on my private OpenBSD 4.2 to be publicly available. It was not migrated from an earlier system. Doing this I hade cause to restart Apache 1.3 and Apache 2.2 repeatedly until my access control worked correctly. This disclosed a shortcoming in Apache 1.3, which I verified anew some five minutes ago. The standard procedure I use is # apachectl2 configtest # apacheclt2 restart which works perfectly for Apache 2.2, but the counterpart # apachectl configtest # apachectl restart claims to restart httpd, but in fact only kills off the previous service without starting a new one. However, # apachectl configtest # apachectl stop # apachectl start is perfectly in order. When reading the log file, it is clear that of some unknown reason one shared module mod_auth_digest.so cannot be located, although it is present in the indicated directory and nowhere else: Syntax error on line 224 of /conf/httpd.conf: Cannot load /usr/lib/apache/modules/mod_auth_digest.so into server: File not found Thus apachectl start can locate a module that apachectl restart cannot find. I find the responsible maintainer ought to look into this matter, although the above workaround is perfectly viable and which used until I had my service up and running as intended. Apache is chrooted by default, making `apachectl restart' unusable for quite some time. It should be in the archives and possibly in the FAQ. /Alexander
Re: Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
On 2007/12/13 13:22, Mats Erik Andersson wrote: # apachectl configtest # apachectl restart claims to restart httpd, but in fact only kills off the previous service without starting a new one. However, # apachectl configtest # apachectl stop # apachectl start is perfectly in order. When reading the log file, it is clear that of some unknown reason one shared module mod_auth_digest.so cannot be located, although it is present in the indicated directory and nowhere else: Syntax error on line 224 of /conf/httpd.conf: Cannot load /usr/lib/apache/modules/mod_auth_digest.so into server: File not found OpenBSD httpd normally runs in a chroot; if it has to access files outside the chroot at startup (as is the case with modules in /usr/lib/apache/modules), you must stop+start rather than use 'restart'.
Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
Hello, three weeks I set up a Subversion/Apache2 on my private OpenBSD 4.2 to be publicly available. It was not migrated from an earlier system. Doing this I hade cause to restart Apache 1.3 and Apache 2.2 repeatedly until my access control worked correctly. This disclosed a shortcoming in Apache 1.3, which I verified anew some five minutes ago. The standard procedure I use is # apachectl2 configtest # apacheclt2 restart which works perfectly for Apache 2.2, but the counterpart # apachectl configtest # apachectl restart claims to restart httpd, but in fact only kills off the previous service without starting a new one. However, # apachectl configtest # apachectl stop # apachectl start is perfectly in order. When reading the log file, it is clear that of some unknown reason one shared module mod_auth_digest.so cannot be located, although it is present in the indicated directory and nowhere else: Syntax error on line 224 of /conf/httpd.conf: Cannot load /usr/lib/apache/modules/mod_auth_digest.so into server: File not found Thus apachectl start can locate a module that apachectl restart cannot find. I find the responsible maintainer ought to look into this matter, although the above workaround is perfectly viable and which used until I had my service up and running as intended. Regards M E Andersson
Re: no 4.2-stable package updates??
First, I'd like to thank those who provided useful responces to my query (which started this thread), both on- and off-list. I had missed the announcement (http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=119347390302171w=1) that -stable ports packages are no longer maintained. Because -stable ports/packages updates no longer exist, it seems to me that section 15.2.8 of the FAQ (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#PkgSecurity) is now incorrect. It currently reads: When serious bugs or security flaws are discovered in third party software, they are fixed in the -stable branch of the ports tree, and a selection of updated binary packages is made available. Please refer to the stable packages page to find out about updated packages and important updates to the -stable branch. The obvious fix is to simply delete these two paragraphs from section 15.2.8 of the FAQ. Comments? ciao, -- -- Jonathan Thornburg (remove -animal to reply) [EMAIL PROTECTED] School of Mathematics, U of Southampton, England Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. -- quote by Freire / poster by Oxfam
Re: Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
On 13/12/2007, Alexander Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache is chrooted by default, making `apachectl restart' unusable for quite some time. It should be in the archives and possibly in the FAQ. /Alexander This comes up a lot. Perhaps `apachectl restart` should display a message as a reminder... -- Best Regards Edd --- http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: KDE presents a distorted screen or quits in the middle of starting up
Rob Lytle wrote: Predrag Punosevac to me, misc Rob Lytle wrote: I searched back through the archives using KDE as a keyword and as far as I can tell I am the only OpenBSD post. This is typical for me. I end up with a unique problem that no one can solve because it never came up before. Sigh, I guess its FreeBSD or Vista on this triple boot laptop. Rob. When you use FreeBSD do you use KDE as well? Does it happen the same thing under FreeBSD or only when you use KDE on the top of OpenBSD? Did you use pkg or ports to install KDE? What is the version of KDE, Xorg and OpenBSD that you use. If you use KDE in FreeBSD did you compare the files xorg.conf? What is the version of KDE, Xorg and FreeBSD that you use? Best, Predrag P. S. And yes I will also suggest that you use something much lighter. I see no purpose in running KDE on the top of the system like OpenBSD. Personally I run Openbox, Xfce4-panel and I set the wall paper with feh my /.xsession (.xinitrc if you do not want xdm) file looks like feh --bg-scale /path to my image xfce4-panel exec openbox Default fvwm is excellent as well. Just set up wall paper with feh and you will be happy camper. OK, here is the info: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE compiled from cvsup source Xorg 7.3 KDE 3.5 compiled from ports in xorg.conf DRI and GLX are loaded OpenBSD-current compiled from cvsup today Xorg 7.2 KDE3.5 compiled from ports loading DRI or GLX crashes server so I commented them out also the mouse device is different Thanks, Rob OK I see something that I do not like at all. Rob, You are running OpenBSD 4.2 current! Do you understand that is developmental version of OpenBSD and is not really supposed to be stable.Unless you need to run current to build new ports or packages or you are kernel developer I would strongly recommend that you go back to release or if you want to build the system from the source that you go back to 4.2 stable. Is the port tree for current or for stable? Even if you were careful to grab the current port tree it is unstable. I mean you are just looking for troubles all over the place. Just try do release version 4.2 and add KDE from pre-compiled binary packages. I guarantee your troubles will go away. On the another hand FreeBSD 6.3 Pre-release is the latest version of 6.2 stable which will become legacy when 7.0 is released. I would really be surprised that you observe any troubles with it. Even 7.0 should be extremely stable at this point. I bet you my life if you try to run FreeBSD 8.0 current you will run in some kind problems with KDE. Best, Predrag - Hi Predrag, Thanks for the advice. I found that Windowmaker exhibits the same behavior. I wish I could compile Xorg from source. I know the perils of running current, but then if there weren't people like me showing the bugs, then progression of current would slow. The problem is that I don't know where the bug is. I need current for the azalia sound driver and hopefully eventually for cardbus as the wpi driver won't suport WPA-PSK. The problem with having a bleeding edge laptop like this is that you end up needing the bleeding edge of software. Now that I know that Windowmaker exhibits the same problem, I think I will just live with it. Thanks for your help. I will check out Xorg.org to see if they have source for OpenBSD. Sincerely, Rob -- Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds Bob Marley, Redemption Song
Re: : : : rouge IPs / user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 12:35:03PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:10:51AM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2007/12/13 09:09, Otto Moerbeek wrote: It's depening on the application if sockets staying in CLOSE_WAIT are a problem or not: it might be intentional (in the hulp duplex case), Strange typo by me... that's a Dutch word, but not very relevant in this context. It should be half-duplex of course. Stupid autonomous fingers ;-) or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. Does select() notify the application of FIN from the other side? If not, that would explain things, it wouldn't be reasonable for httpd to manually try and receive from all sockets in keepalive to see whether it needs to close the socket, since it will only wait KeepAliveTimeout (default 15s) before it closes them anyway. Nice suggestion, but if you've marked the fd for read I would expect select to notify if the other side does a shutdown(SHUT_WR). Other scenarios are also thinkable: like the server socket being blocked because of outgoing data that cannot be written out. That might prevent the server from doing a close too. But in the end the close will happen, otherwise you would run out of fd's very soon. I have been doing a little ktrace:ing on the httpd worker process(es) that gets stuck with a socket in CLOSE_WAIT. It appears when it finally (after e.g 8.5 minutes) continues, it: 28749 httpd1197541469.470707 EMUL native 28749 httpd53.276754 RET write -1 errno 32 Broken pipe 28749 httpd0.31 CALL close(0x4) 28749 httpd0.05 RET close 0 28749 httpd0.12 CALL gettimeofday(0xcfbd12c8,0) 28749 httpd0.02 RET gettimeofday 0 28749 httpd0.02 CALL gettimeofday(0xcfbd12c8,0) 28749 httpd0.01 RET gettimeofday 0 28749 httpd0.02 CALL stat(0x2d5a3945,0xcfbd1370) 28749 httpd0.02 NAMI /etc/resolv.conf 28749 httpd0.09 RET stat 0 28749 httpd0.12 CALL open(0x2d5a1ffb,0,0x1b6) 28749 httpd0.04 NAMI /etc/hosts 28749 httpd0.05 RET open 4 28749 httpd0.03 CALL fstat(0x4,0xcfbd16d0) 28749 httpd0.02 RET fstat 0 28749 httpd0.03 CALL mprotect(0x8111e000,0x1000,0x3) 28749 httpd0.05 RET mprotect 0 28749 httpd0.06 CALL mprotect(0x8111e000,0x1000,0x1) 28749 httpd0.03 RET mprotect 0 28749 httpd0.02 CALL read(0x4,0x8103a000,0x4000) 28749 httpd0.04 GIO fd 4 read 725 bytes that must be the start of finding my own hostname, it proceeds with looking up the remote host over DNS and then writes a log entry: 28749 httpd0.19 CALL write(0x16,0x7cc0b4ac,0x7c) 28749 httpd0.08 GIO fd 22 wrote 124 bytes : 28749 httpd0.02 RET write 124/0x7c 28749 httpd0.11 CALL close(0x3) 28749 httpd0.16 RET close 0 28749 httpd0.03 CALL sigaction(0x1e,0xcfbd1e00,0xcfbd1df0) 28749 httpd0.03 RET sigaction 0 28749 httpd0.04 CALL accept(0x12,0xcfbd1e50,0xcfbd1e3c) 28749 httpd2.751318 RET accept 3 there comes the next connection. Note the close(0x3) call. The lsof output said the HTTP connection socket had fd 3. To compare with the end of a later successful request/reply in the same log: 28749 httpd0.04 CALL write(0x3,0x85b7200c,0xb57) 28749 httpd0.42 GIO fd 3 wrote 2903 bytes : 28749 httpd0.10 RET write 2903/0xb57 28749 httpd0.06 CALL gettimeofday(0xcfbd12c8,0) 28749 httpd0.03 RET gettimeofday 0 28749 httpd0.02 CALL gettimeofday(0xcfbd12c8,0) 28749 httpd0.02 RET gettimeofday 0 28749 httpd0.01 CALL stat(0x2d5a3945,0xcfbd1370) 28749 httpd0.02 NAMI /etc/resolv.conf 28749 httpd0.09 RET stat 0 and then lookup of my name and the other name, and write log: 28749 httpd0.21 CALL write(0x16,0x7cc0b2ac,0x97) 28749 httpd0.08 GIO fd 22 wrote 151 bytes : 28749 httpd0.02 RET write 151/0x97 28749 httpd0.11 CALL shutdown(0x3,0x1) 28749 httpd0.17 RET shutdown 0 28749 httpd0.03 CALL select(0x4,0xcfbd1b70,0,0,0xcfbd1b68) 28749 httpd0.115966 RET select 1 28749 httpd0.09 CALL read(0x3,0xcfbd1bf0,0x200) 28749 httpd0.04 RET read 0 28749 httpd0.04 CALL close(0x3) 28749 httpd0.04 RET close 0 28749 httpd0.05 CALL sigaction(0x1e,0xcfbd1e00,0xcfbd1df0) 28749 httpd0.02 RET sigaction 0 28749 httpd0.02 CALL munmap(0x8b60d000,0xa2b) 28749 httpd0.18 RET munmap 0 28749 httpd0.16 CALL accept(0x12,0xcfbd1e50,0xcfbd1e3c) Note that close(0x3) follows after select() RET 1, read() RET 0. In the fail case log, close(0x3) is called without select() and read() probably because it is already known fd 3 is dead due to the failing write(). So, the conclusion closest at hand is that it is a
Xorg warnings related to GART
Now that I have established that KDE is not the source of my occasional distorted Xorg display I noticed several things in the Xorg.0.log: (Windowmaker has the problem too) (ww) xf86AcquireGART: AGPIOC ACQUIRE failed (inappropriate ioctl for device) and (ww) GARTinit: AGPIOC_INFO failed (inappropriate ioctl for device) I don't know what these warnings mean or if they are related to me problem but I just noticed them. Sincerely, Rob -- Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds Bob Marley, Redemption Song
Re: Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Edd Barrett wrote: This comes up a lot. Perhaps `apachectl restart` should display a message as a reminder... What is wrong with reading the FAQ? http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#httpdchroot -- Antoine
Re: HP LaserJet P2015 on OpenBSD -- BEWARE
On Dec 13, 2007 1:59 AM, visc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a mix of HP models depending on purchase date - 1300n, 1320n, etc. Also had about 10 HP 2015s that were working FINE... ...until they upgraded their server to the most recent Redhat/Linux kernel. Forgive me for not knowing (caring) about which version, but the basics are that a Redhat upgrade on the server end left me with 10 useless printers that were blamed on either my networking skills or HP firmware. It's nice to know that I'm not seeing things, as it was fairly obvious to me that the Redhat upgrade caused these printers to stop properly printing .ps files. I had to run out and buy 10 Lexmarks just to keep offices running and ultimately eat the hit for equipment not functioning. Not to mention that nobody will believe that the Redhat upgrade caused the problem (even though it seems HP is ultimately at fault). - visc I thought the purpose of enterprise linux was to prevent this crap from happening. Shows how well that works.
Re: Inaccurate restart of Apache 1.3
Alexander Hall wrote: ... Apache is chrooted by default, making `apachectl restart' unusable for quite some time. It should be in the archives and possibly in the FAQ. it is (and has been for quite some time)... http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#httpdchroot Nick.
openbsd 3.9 and httpd-2.2.6
Hi all, I'm trying to install httpd-2.2.6 on my openbsd 3.9 from source. I get the following error when I run make Making all in support make[1]: Entering directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make[2]: Entering directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' /usr/local/apr/build-1/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -g -O2 -pthread -o htpasswd htpasswd.lo -lm /export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/srclib/pcre/libpcre.la /usr/local/apr/lib/libaprutil-1.la -lexpat -liconv /usr/local/apr/lib/libapr-1.la -lpthread /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lexpat collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [htpasswd] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 Thanks BSD Networking, Microsoft Notworking
Re: openbsd 3.9 and httpd-2.2.6
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Monah Baki wrote: I'm trying to install httpd-2.2.6 on my openbsd 3.9 from source. I get the following error when I run make [snip] /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lexpat collect2: ld returned 1 exit status You are missing expat (or the linker can't find it). pkg_add it. But, you might want to take this opportunity to upgrade and install apache2 from ports. -- Kyle George
Re: IPSEC with Checkpoint Sonicwall ?
Yup ... apparently it is now just a Checkpoint ... Thanks for the catch .. Michael Steven Surdock wrote: Michael Gale wrote: Hey, I have been asked if we can setup an IPSEC connection with a Checkpoint Sonicwall. Currently I have NO information on the remote end except that it is a Checkpoint Sonicwall :( You're already starting with bad communication from the remote end. http://www.checkpoint.com http://www.sonicwall.com Two completely different companies, unless I missed some recent merger. -Steve S. -- Michael Gale Red Hat Certified Engineer Network Administrator Pason Systems Corp. Each person's work is a portrait of himself - Samuel Butler
Re: openbsd 3.9 and httpd-2.2.6
The ports tree is there for a reason. On 2007/12/13 08:39, Monah Baki wrote: /usr/local/apr/lib/libapr-1.la -lpthread ^ this is wrong, it should be -pthread. /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lexpat in 3.9 this was in a separate port. In 4.2 it's in xbase. In -current it's in base. I strongly advise upgrading to 4.2 and use ports/packages.
Re: no 4.2-stable package updates??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12.12-16:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I tried using pkgsrc-2007Q3 but it sucks. Updating userland in
production environment with pkgsrc on a non-NetBSD platform is a
nightmare.
i'm working on this. will post when significant progress has been
made. in my opinion having a working pkgsrc tree is better for
everyone, doesn't mean we can't have an openbsd branch (so to speak)
but unifying our efforts with others in this field will have benefits.
Agreed. I also think that pkgsrc (http://www.netbsd.org/docs/pkgsrc/)
would be a good thing to have in OpenBSD. It has over 7,300 ports, it is
being released several times per year, and *has* updates in -stable.
I installed and configured pkgsrc-2007Q3 release on OpenBSD 4.2 and then
updated to -stable. It bootstraped correctly, built some packages but I
didn't make it possible to build Perl and xxfb. It was the reason
I dropped it for now.
Here are the steps I performed configuring OpenBSD 4.2 to use
pkgsrc-2007Q3 (the majority of actions are taken from pkgsrc guide,
found in URL above, please read the guide before taking any action below)...
1) Create /root/.cvsrc with following lines:
checkout -P
update -dP
release -d
diff -upN
cvs -q -z3
rdiff -u
2) Add following lines to existing /root/.profile and export these
variables to running environment (there are also additional pkgsrc
mirrors found at http://www.netbsd.org/mirrors/#anoncvs):
CVSROOT=[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot
CVS_RSH=ssh
export CVSROOT CVS_RSH
3) Checkout pkgsrc-2007Q3 release, this creates /usr/pkgsrc directory
('#' is a root prompt):
# cd /usr
# cvs -q checkout -rpkgsrc-2007Q3 -P pkgsrc
...
... (be patient here)
4) Then, update pkgsrc to -stable (YEAH! :-)
# cd /usr/pkgsrc
# cvs -q update -dP
...
... (be patient here also)
(CVS keeps track of the initial checkout branch, i.e. pkgsrc-2007Q3)
5) Read the latest docs, changes and READMEs from these dirs:
/usr/pkgsrc/doc/
/usr/pkgsrc/mk/defaults/
6) Relocate original OpenBSD pkgtools (since pkgsrc has pkgtools with
same names):
# cd /usr/sbin
# mv pkg_add pkg_add.orig
# mv pkg_create pkg_create.orig
# mv pkg_delete pkg_delete.orig
# mv pkg_info pkg_info.orig
7) Remove PKG_PATH from environment (if set to OpenBSD repository)
since both OpenBSD pkgtools and pkgsrc use this variable:
unset PKG_PATH
(and comment it out from /root/.profile if there)
8) Bootstrap pkgsrc (FYI: bootstrap uses /var/db/pkg as default package
db, and since it is the same as OpenBSD's just use other path to avoid
problems). Bootstrapping creates initial infrastructure needed to build
packages:
# cd /usr/pkgsrc/bootstrap
# ./bootstrap --pkgdbdir /usr/pkg/db
...
... (be patient here)
After bootstrap finishes successfully, /usr/pkg is created. This is a
root path for running pkgsrc environment. Every installed package goes
to either /usr/pkg/bin or /usr/pkg/sbin.
9) Add following lines to the environment and /root/.profile:
PATH=/usr/pkg/sbin:/usr/pkg/bin:$PATH
export PATH
Issue the following commands (beware with ldconfig not to mistype or
forget to enter any additional local library paths you may have, it may
render your system unusable until next reboot!):
# echo shlib_dirs=\/usr/pkg/lib\ /etc/rc.conf/local
# ldconfig /usr/lib /usr/local/lib /usr/X11R6/lib /usr/pkg/lib
Change /etc/man.conf line:
_default/usr/{share,X11R6,local}/man/
into:
_default/usr/{pkg,share,X11R6,local}/man/
11) Issue pkg_info command (this is pkgsrc version of pkg_info) to see
packages installed after the bootstrap. On my machine this is as following:
# pkg_info
bootstrap-mk-files-20070810 *.mk files for the bootstrap bmake utility
bmake-20051105nb4 Portable (autoconf) version of NetBSD 'make' utility
tnftp-20070806 The enhanced FTP client in NetBSD
pax-20060202nb1 POSIX standard archiver with many extensions
pkg_install-20070927 Package management and administration tools for pkg
It is possible to read man pages of newly installed pkgsrc packages:
# man audit-packages
...
12) Now, edit your own main pkgsrc makefile (vi /usr/pkg/etc/mk.conf),
'#' is a comment:
###
# Example /usr/pkg/etc/mk.conf file produced by bootstrap-pkgsrc
# Wed Dec 12 10:20:21 CET 2007
.ifdef BSD_PKG_MK # begin pkgsrc settings
PKG_DBDIR= /usr/pkg/db
LOCALBASE= /usr/pkg
VARBASE=/var
PKG_TOOLS_BIN= /usr/pkg/sbin
PKGMANDIR= man
TOOLS_PLATFORM.pax?=/usr/pkg/bin/pax
TOOLS_PLATFORM.tar?=/usr/pkg/bin/tar
###
# Added by jere
###
# All applications are inet6 enabled,
# this avoids problems in some misbehaving applications.
# If possible, I want to avoid using threads. Just don't like them. :-)
# List of all options is found at
# /usr/pkgsrc/mk/defaults/options.description
PKG_DEFAULT_OPTIONS+= inet6 -threads
# I'm not sure if this is sufficient to use
# OpenBSD's native OpenSSL
OpenBSD 3.9 and Httpd-2.2.6 compile error
Hi All, I'm compiling httpd with the following: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/apache2 --enable-ssl --enable-dav --enable-dav-fs --enable-vhost-alias --enable-rewrite --enable-so When I run make I get the following error: Making all in support make[1]: Entering directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make[2]: Entering directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' /usr/local/apr/build-1/libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -g -O2 -pthread -D_POSIX_THREADS-I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/srclib/pcre -I. -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/os/unix -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/server/mpm/prefork -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/http -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/filters -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/proxy -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/include -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/generators -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/mappers -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/database -I/usr/local/apr/include/apr-1 -I/usr/local/include -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/proxy/../generators -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/ssl -I/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/modules/dav/main -prefer-non-pic -static -c htpasswd.c touch htpasswd.lo /usr/local/apr/build-1/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -g -O2 -pthread -o htpasswd htpasswd.lo -lm /export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/srclib/pcre/libpcre.la /usr/local/apr/lib/libaprutil-1.la -lexpat -liconv /usr/local/apr/lib/libapr-1.la -lpthread /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lexpat collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [htpasswd] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/export/home/mbaki/httpd-2.2.6/support' make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 Thanks
Re: Getting envolved
If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P I disagree. A complex interface implies a lot of code. a lot of code leads to unreliablity, either through bugs or detracting valuable developer time from more important things A simple interface (well designed) imples less code, which leads to reliability. Users who can no invest the effort learn enough to use a simple interface do not deserve a reliable operating system. They deserve windows, and they deserve pop up buttong in their browsers that they click ok blindly for everything. -Bob
Re: A very good OpenLDAP tutorial - Notes
I've been asked to deploy an openldap server so that we can test our software's authentication layer against it. I've never messed with LDAP before now, so I look forward to going through this tutorial. I read the first few slides last night and it looked pretty good. Thanks! Tom On Dec 12, 2007 4:25 PM, badeguruji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.acay.com.au/~oscarp/tutor/http://www.acay.com.au/%7Eoscarp/tutor/ for all new Openldap users. thx, and sorry if you don't need this. -BG ~~Kalyan-mastu~~
Re: Getting envolved
On Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM, Bob Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P I disagree. A complex interface implies a lot of code. a lot of code leads to unreliablity, either through bugs or detracting valuable developer time from more important things A simple interface (well designed) imples less code, which leads to reliability. Users who can no invest the effort learn enough to use a simple interface do not deserve a reliable operating system. They deserve windows, and they deserve pop up buttong in their browsers that they click ok blindly for everything. Agreed. and as a relatively new user.. and coming from the linux world. I found the openbsd installer to be the SIMPLEST I have ever used. Setting aside disklayout and slicing, I've yet to give OpenBSD to my fellow students and experience problems. ~J
Re: NEW: games/chocolate-doom
On Dec 13, 2007 12:41 PM, Antti Harri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Andris wrote: there's already games/prboom, so why another Doom-engine? Because someone ported it? I don't get this there's already a ported implementation of idea. Sounds like monopoly. IMHO, any quality port (as in: compiles, runs fine) should be included. With a quick glance they seemed quite the same and I can say prboom works good, so why not improve existing? I'm not saying it shouldn't be imported, I'm just wondering what makes chocolate-doom better than existing prboom. -- Antti Harri IMHO, is it not relevant the quality (as in: completeness, friendliness, or the like) of the port. I *do* find important the quality of compilation and run.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Interestingly enough, if you specified that as the reason you recommend against using OpenBSD, this thread would have been a lot shorter. Maybe it would have led to a shorter thread, but it would not have been accurate. My decision not to recommend OpenBSD was not based on personalities.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
From license.txt in the unrar source archive: - The UnRAR sources may be used in any software to handle RAR archives without limitations free of charge, but cannot be used to re-create the RAR compression algorithm, which is proprietary. - UnRAR seems to be a real problem. I will discuss it with the BLAG developers.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
If a library has a book on [insert-controversial-topic-here], does that imply endorsement of said topic by the library or by someone who reads the book? Should the library burn copies of books on such topics to protect the citizenry? Absolutely not. A system distribution is more like an anthology than like a library. We do consider the editor of the anthology book responsible for the choice of what to include.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Richard's words are the essence of the Free Software Foundation and the GNU General Public License: people _must_ use free software, people _can_ decide whether to use free software or not, but people _must not_ be free to exercise that desire. That is not what I said. See several other postings of mine today for a statement of my views. // Check whether this is good shit if (allows(project, free_software) ! allows(project, non_free_software)) add_to_list(project); If you replace allows with contains or recommends then it will accurately reflect what I said. Since The Free Software foundation mission is to preserve, protect and promote the freedom to use, study, copy, modify, and redistribute computer software (free software), please, Richard, remove Linux from the Free Software Directory (since Torvalds' version of Linux is not free software, and that is the version listed in the directory); I will ask the person who maintains the directory to remove Linux or else point to a free version of it. Thank you for pointing out this problem.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
LAME is free software, but distributing it may be dangerous. I do not criticize those who distribute it. Meanwhile, the FSF support efforts to reject MP3 format and adopt OGG formats.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
his absolutism also causes people to see BSD as a problem, a social failure. If some people think that, they did not get it from me. I do not call BSD either of those things. I say that releasing free software under a non-copyleft free software license is basically good (i.e., not evil), but that using copyleft is better. recently we saw theft of BSD to GPL, and a large part of the GPL community thinks there's no problem with that, that the BSD community is being petty to make an issue out of it. I don't think it is wrong in general to relicense code from BSD to GPL. However, in some cases I think it is more useful not to do so, in order to contribute changes back to the original BSD-licensed project. If such an issue arises for a GNU package, and people think it is not doing the most useful thing, I will look at the issue and then if necessary discuss it with the developers. However, if such an issue arises for a program which is not a GNU package, I will not get involved unless the developers ask me for advice.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
However, if distribution D includes this easier way to install in its ports system, by doing so distribution D endorses it and takes on the ethical responsibility for it. Using the same argument I can say that gcc isn't ethical because it allows compilation of non-free software. That isn't the same argument, or even the same issue. You are talking about what the user can do. I'm talking about something else: what the system distro suggests that the user do.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
gNewSense uses the Linux kernel. The Linux kernel facilitates utilization of non-free blobs. gNewSense does not include, or refer to, or tell people about the drivers that use non-free blobs. Torvalds's decision to put blobs into Linux was a bad one, but gNewSense is ok because it does not follow Torvalds' bad decision.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Users have responsability for what they do. We do not take responsability for them. We give them enough information to make their informed decision. In my opinion, that's the ethical way to do things. In my opinion, we ought to take responsibility for the recommendations and assistance we give to others. Thus, we should not steer people towards non-free software. Even though they are not forced to follow our advice, we are still responsible for having given it. In BSD land, we trust the human nature. We're not condescending to our users, we treat them as adults and we let them make *their* own ethical choice and take their own decision. You cannot claim the credit for letting them, because it is a fact that they can do so in any case. It is misleading to speak of letting or stopping the users from installing non-free software. What's really going on is that you are helping them use the non-free software, which grants it legitimacy. That is what I object to.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
So, it would seem that (barring human error) the primary philosophical difference between the packaging systems of OpenBSD and gNewSense is that gNewSense tries to prevent you from seeing any packages they consider non-Free, while OpenBSD directly provides only Free software (Packages) but gives the user a choice of installing any software (Ports). The above description of gNewSense is inaccurate. gNewSense doesn't try to prevent you from seeing anything. How could stop you? What gNewSense does is avoid suggesting non-free programs you might use. The above description of OpenBSD is not false, but it is misleading. OpenBSD can't give (or not give) users the the choice of installing non-free software, any more than I could give you (or not give you) the choice of what to eat for dinner tomorrow. It's simply a fact that non-free software can be installed on any general-purpose system. The difference between gNewSense and OpenBSD which is the cause of my different judgment of them is that OpenBSD presents non-free software in the list of programs it can install for you (through the ports system), and gNewSense doesn't.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
As far as I understand, the OpenBSD position appears to be that trying to police users by forbidding them to maintain and retrieve port metadata about unfree software via this adjunct service (that is not included in the OS) would be a restriction of the users' freedom. Obviously I disagree with that position. This isn't an issue of the users' freedom at all. It is an issue of what OpenBSD says to the public.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Users have responsability for what they do. We do not take responsability for them. We give them enough information to make their informed decision. In my opinion, that's the ethical way to do things. In my opinion, we ought to take responsibility for the recommendations and assistance we give to others. Since both emacs and gcc contain code inside them which permit them to compile and run on commercial operating systems which are non-free, you are a slimy hypocrite. Thus, we should not steer people towards non-free software. Both those software packages steer people towards being able to use emacs and gcc on commercial systems. You are a hypocritical liar, Richard.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
However, it is trivially easy to use the gNewSense apt system to install unfree software. Any general-purpose system can run non-free software, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether a distribution refers people to the non-free software or not. Since so many messages have been based on disregarding that distinction, I suggest that everyone reread the paragraph above. From https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype#head-5c18cc60f56f7f5f651ee9abeca60f0ab62545f7 Ubuntu does many things that suggest installing non-free software. I did not know about this example, but I know of others which are worse. That is why I refuse to recommend Ubuntu.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Do you believe that The Pirate Bay is guilty of copyright infringement? That is a legal question, not an ethical question. I do not know what the law of any given country would say about the Pirate Bay. You would need to ask a lawyer. Instead of that legal question, we could ask an ethical question: is The Pirate Bay's activity right or wrong? In general, I think people have a moral right to share copies of published works, so I see no reason to criticize the Pirate Bay in general. However, I would not recommend that as a place to look for software, both because some of the software might be non-free, and for security reasons. If OpenBSD could spin off the ports system (perhaps people could put it on the Pirate Bay), and break off connection with it, then it would cease to convey any message from OpenBSD to the users. Then I could recommend OpenBSD while not recommending its ports system. Currently, that option does not exist.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:52:06AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: Maybe it would have led to a shorter thread, but it would not have been accurate. My decision not to recommend OpenBSD was not based on personalities. Interesting. So have you sent these types of unrecommendations to other OS' mailing lists or just OpenBSD's? gg
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Your definition of free is replete with chains; you would deny the freedom of choice in the name of freedom. Freedom means having control of your own life; Freedom of choice is a partly accurate and partly misleading way to describe that, and taking that expression too literally leads to mistaken conclusions. Thus, I say I advocate freedom -- not freedom of choice. This always leads to the question of which freedom? In the area of software, I want a society in which users are free to run software, free study and change its source code and make their changed versions run, and free to redistribute changed and unchanged versions. In other words, a society in which non-free software more or less doesn't exist. Establishing a free society that endures generally requires not allowing people to give up freedom. In other words, it requires inalienable rights. I do not want a society in which people had those freedoms only until they gave them up. I do not say this with the expectation that you will agree with me. It sounds like you are as firmly convinced of your views as I am of mine. I hope, though, that at least you will understand better what my position is.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Richard Stallman wrote: If a library has a book on [insert-controversial-topic-here], does that imply endorsement of said topic by the library or by someone who reads the book? Should the library burn copies of books on such topics to protect the citizenry? Absolutely not. A system distribution is more like an anthology than like a library. We do consider the editor of the anthology book responsible for the choice of what to include. An anthology contains the actual licensed material of the books. The ports tree only contains urls of these pieces of software you object to. Your argument here fails. --- Marina Brown
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Yes, that's what I was told. I was also told that OpenBSD's ports system includes non-free programs. Is that accurate too? Strictly speaking, no. If you unpack ports.tar.gz you will find a bunch of makefiles, packing lists, c., all of which are free. I should more precisely have said that the OpenBSD ports system includes instructions for fetching, building and installing specific non-free programs. I usually simplify that to includes because I figured anyone who knows about the ports system understands those details, and because they don't change anything. It contains URL's to non-free software, and free Makefiles that knows how to build that non-free software. But the entire ports tree has no non-free software in it at all. Does that make it non-free? Even giving the URLs has the effect of referring people to those non-free programs. It gives those non-free programs legitimacy, and thus contradicts the idea that software should be free. Are all operating systems non-free then, because they can be used to write free Makefiles which compile non-free software? No, that's a totally different question. Q1: could your system support a port to install non-free program FOO. Q2: does your system come with a port to install FOO. The answer to Q1 is always yes. I'm concerned with Q2.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Good people of MISC land, could we please drop this thread, its lasted way longer than really needed. RMS has his viewpoint and would prefer to defend it. We have our own war cry, Shut-up and hack :-) Best, On Dec 13, 2007 10:22 PM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LAME is free software, but distributing it may be dangerous. I do not criticize those who distribute it. Meanwhile, the FSF support efforts to reject MP3 format and adopt OGG formats.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You cannot claim the credit for letting them, because it is a fact that they can do so in any case. It is misleading to speak of letting or stopping the users from installing non-free software. What's really going on is that you are helping them use the non-free software, which grants it legitimacy. That is what I object to. I don't believe anybody who has followed this thread over the last couple days could misunderstand your opinion on references to non-free software in a distribution. But I don't think I've seen a post from a single person on this mailing list who agrees with that opinion. If I'm wrong, let me know. Tom
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 12/13/07, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: recently we saw theft of BSD to GPL, and a large part of the GPL community thinks there's no problem with that, that the BSD community is being petty to make an issue out of it. I don't think it is wrong in general to relicense code from BSD to GPL. However, in some cases I think it is more useful not to do so, in order to contribute changes back to the original BSD-licensed project. What? No.. it is wrong. You can't just change the license on people! You might have meant I don't think it is wrong in general to get permission from the original authors to relicense code from BSD to GPL but it doesn't sound like that. And in *all* cases it is useful not to do so, because you should always be trying to integrate fixes upstream. -Nick
Re: Real men don't attack sign men
Not calling someone unfriendly and just focusing on the conversation/technical details at hand, would be much more friendly.. even considering friendship wasn't the subject of discussion in the first place. Someone else attacked me on this list for not discussing this with Theo. I explained the reason in the gentlest way I could think of. The same argument could be made about your unfriendliness. We could not talk to you since you have *proven* to be unfriendly: http://z505.com/images/gnu-sign.png Any programmer or philosopher worth his salt can appear critical, analytical, or unfriendly at times. Security experts especially. I doubt someone who is truly unfriendly could organize a hackathon, a friendly social event. Remember, this is just email after all, Stallman. Take some of it with a grain of salt. Any time someone brings up the fact that openbsd has unfriendly programmers, we are to call them on it. Label it as: The OpenBSD Cliche Cliche: an idea that has been overused to the point of losing its intended force or novelty, That way, when anyone regurgitates this same old tired openbsd programmers are unfriendly argument, we can redirect them to a FUQ or FAQ. An example demonstration of this: Bum Bum wrote in message: blah blah blah OpenBSD programmers are unfriendly blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Not friendly blah blah Don't use it blah blah blah Because they are unfriendly blah blah blah Hello Bum Bum, that is an invalid argument. Please see: The OpenBSD Cliche. It is in the FUQ under the beaten dead horse section. Regards, L505 A philosopher who did not hurt anyone's feelings was not doing his job. --Plato (source: Wikipedia) A programmer who did not hurt anyone's feelings was not doing his job. --L505 (source: Z505)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Dec 13, 2007 5:52 PM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gNewSense uses the Linux kernel. The Linux kernel facilitates utilization of non-free blobs. gNewSense does not include, or refer to, or tell people about the drivers that use non-free blobs. You manipulate my comments. Your point was : However, if distribution D includes this easier way to install in its ports system, by doing so distribution D endorses it and takes on the ethical responsibility for it. We all know that the linux kernel (on which gNewSense is based) has an easy way to install binary blobs, like nvidia binary drivers. I wasn't speaking about non free blobs that are in the Torvald's kernel but the nvidia one that is NOT in it. Moreover, this facility to install blobs that the linux kernel *provides* comes with the base gNewSense system... OpenBSD non-free packages are not in the base system and not even available... Torvalds's decision to put blobs into Linux was a bad one, but gNewSense is ok because it does not follow Torvalds' bad decision. This sounds to me simply wrong because your statements are full of contradictions. -- Mattieu Baptiste /earth is 102% full ... please delete anyone you can.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
However, if distribution D includes this easier way to install in its ports system, by doing so distribution D endorses it and takes on the ethical responsibility for it. Using the same argument I can say that gcc isn't ethical because it allows compilation of non-free software. That isn't the same argument, or even the same issue. You are talking about what the user can do. I'm talking about something else: what the system distro suggests that the user do. The actual real issue is that gcc has code in it to let it compile on Solaris, and even on Windows. That encourages users to continue using non-free software. Richard, you are a big hypocrite.
Re: : no 4.2-stable package updates??
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 01:07:17PM +, Jonathan Thornburg wrote: First, I'd like to thank those who provided useful responces to my query (which started this thread), both on- and off-list. I had missed the announcement (http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=119347390302171w=1) that -stable ports packages are no longer maintained. As I recall from the FAQ and installation manual, an overall philosphy for OpenBSD is that the package system is the recommended. Users are encouraged to install from binary packages. And regular users should follow the stable branch. Does this still apply. It seems not from this thread, so in what way should a regular user now follow the stable branch? And yes, it should be in the FAQ. Or is this just a temporary setback? Because -stable ports/packages updates no longer exist, it seems to me that section 15.2.8 of the FAQ (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#PkgSecurity) is now incorrect. It currently reads: When serious bugs or security flaws are discovered in third party software, they are fixed in the -stable branch of the ports tree, and a selection of updated binary packages is made available. Please refer to the stable packages page to find out about updated packages and important updates to the -stable branch. The obvious fix is to simply delete these two paragraphs from section 15.2.8 of the FAQ. Comments? ciao, -- -- Jonathan Thornburg (remove -animal to reply) [EMAIL PROTECTED] School of Mathematics, U of Southampton, England Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. -- quote by Freire / poster by Oxfam -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 2007-12-13 17:51, Richard Stallman wrote: If a library has a book on [insert-controversial-topic-here], does that imply endorsement of said topic by the library or by someone who reads the book? Should the library burn copies of books on such topics to protect the citizenry? Absolutely not. A system distribution is more like an anthology than like a library. We do consider the editor of the anthology book responsible for the choice of what to include. Yes, but we do not automatically assume that he recommend or endorse what the included text discusses. If that was so we would have to assume that anyone writing a book about the holocaust also approves. Telling a person about something is not the same thing as telling someone to do it. -- Erik WikstrC6m
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
As far as I understand, the OpenBSD position appears to be that trying to police users by forbidding them to maintain and retrieve port metadata about unfree software via this adjunct service (that is not included in the OS) would be a restriction of the users' freedom. Obviously I disagree with that position. This isn't an issue of the users' freedom at all. It is an issue of what OpenBSD says to the public. GCC contains a file called config/sol2.h: /* Operating system specific defines to be used when targeting GCC for any Solaris 2 system. Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. What does that say to the public? It says you can use gcc on a non-free operating system. How's it feel to be a hypocrite? What about gcc/config/rs6000/aix.h gcc/config/vax/vms.h Or how about gcc/config/i386/win32.h: /* Operating system specific defines to be used when targeting GCC for hosting on Windows NT 3.x, using a Unix style C library and tools, as distinct from winnt.h, which is used to build GCC for use with a windows style library and tool set and uses the Microsoft tools. Copyright (C) 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. And hordes -- thousands upon thousands -- of #ifdef's and other crap to support the Windows ABI. I note that date of 1995 on the above file. That's around the last time when you were around actually touching code, right? Richard, you are a total hypocrite. You are in here creating a fuss about our software, saying it is non-free, when you are doing exactly the same thing yourself.
Re: Getting envolved
Users who can no invest the effort learn enough to use a simple interface do not deserve a reliable operating system. They deserve windows, and they deserve pop up buttong in their browsers that they click ok blindly for everything. -Bob Do you apply this reasoning to anything in life or do you reserve this kind of eugenics only to IT? :) I don't apply it - It's just reality. A group of people participating in something will get what they deserve based on the collective effort and thought they put into things, whether it's a group of one, or 300,000,000. Examples: - Operating Systems - Applications - Democratically Elected Leadership }8- TANSTAAFL.. Your effort and education determine how good any of the above will be.. An Operating system for morons will be hmm.. moronic. A government eleceted by morons will be.. moronic. The result is a direct reflection of the process and participants. -Bob
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 13/12/2007, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If a library has a book on [insert-controversial-topic-here], does that imply endorsement of said topic by the library or by someone who reads the book? Should the library burn copies of books on such topics to protect the citizenry? Absolutely not. A system distribution is more like an anthology than like a library. We do consider the editor of the anthology book responsible for the choice of what to include. OpenBSD neither includes nor promotes any non-free software. However, like any unbiased material, it does contain a complete and detailed reference list, called 'ports'. Please note, that there is no automated process about getting ports onto your system. The only thing that the OpenBSD install process can install for you is the base system, which actually happens to have a lot of software in it as it is, from X and apache, to gcc and lynx. So unlike other BSD systems, which heavily depend on you installing both ports and packages for various components of the system, OpenBSD requires neither ports nor packages for the day to day operation. C.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:52:14AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: As far as I understand, the OpenBSD position appears to be that trying to police users by forbidding them to maintain and retrieve port metadata about unfree software via this adjunct service (that is not included in the OS) would be a restriction of the users' freedom. Obviously I disagree with that position. This isn't an issue of the users' freedom at all. It is an issue of what OpenBSD says to the public. Then there's the practical side to consider. Most computer users simply do not care about freedom. They only want their stuff to work. Even among the local Linux crowd in my town, if I bring up an issue of freedom I get a frigid response, or even outright anger. Mostly they want a blanket blessing for using Free Software (even when it's not), and they want to stick it to Microsoft. And... they don't want to think, or evaluate, and make a tough choice. So, in that sense GNU, the FSF, and your personal recommendations aren't having the effects they should. Hmm. In the past years I've been using OpenBSD I've had more education on software freedom than the previous decade of using Linux. As a community, OpenBSD users are much more aware of these issues, I believe. If you can accept that, then consider that a more educated user base is more capable of making their own decisions. The ports collection includes some licensing information about each port's Makefile. The binary packages do not contain non-free software at all. So OpenBSD has given me plenty of information to make a choice. So, in practice, OpenBSD is doing just fine to promote software freedoms. If principles are important then it's important to see those principles used in everyday life by the community at large. If you can't recommend OpenBSD from where you stand maybe you should have a fresh look from somewhere just a few feet away. Things look different from here. -- Darrin Chandler| Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation
Re: Getting envolved
On Dec 13, 2007, at 12:40 AM, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:44:35AM +0100, Mathieu Stumpf wrote: Le mercredi 12 dC)cembre 2007 C 11:22 -0800, Ted Unangst a C)crit : On 12/12/07, Mathieu Stumpf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my mind software quality also depends on ease of use. So I would be happy to help improve OpenBSD by making it easier to install and use. But I don't know if you would be interesting by this kind of 'improvement'. I don't want to waste your time nor mine, so I ask first. most developers are convinced the installer is about as easy to use as possible. other parts of the system could possibly use some improvement, but keep in mind that easy to use and simple aren't the same for many people, and openbsd really values simple. I agree easy to use and sample are not the same for everyone. That's why, to my mind, a good installer should provide several methods to install. If you like the current way it works, you should be able to continue with this system. But what if my mum, who has low computer skill, would like to install a free, functional and secure system? I think the software should help her to make the most accurate choices. Because I think my mum too deserves a reliable operating system. :P Best regards. That's all fine, but your mum is probably not an OpenBSD developer. The main target audience for OpenBSD are the developers. We make what suits us. And we are not computer users with average or below average I've always wondered what kind of other projects the OpenBSD developers are working on these days. When you read through the OpenBSD lists and docs, you can see clearly that the above is true. I'm no developer, but I've found openbsd to be a great network firewall and router. A nice side affect of developers building an OS that suits them for their needs. So, if you care to share, what kinds of projects (not OpeBSD itself) are you developing? (I understand if you can't share, due to employer placed restrictions.) skills. That does not mean we like to make things complicated, far from that. We do however expect our users to have some knowledge and skills. Luckily there are a lot of people around that have similar views and needs as the developers. Any other person or group liking the results is free to use it for whatever thay want. Maybe to make something that's easier to install for *their* intended audience. But that installer probably won't make it into the base system. Please do not read this as a discouragement to get involved. But if you want to create something that supposed to go into the base system, it really should cater for the needs of the main body of users. -Otto
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Would everyone in the room who maintain a complete, working operating system please raise their hands? would everyone who is forced to co-opt or recommend other people's operating systems... because their own is unfinished... please go away and write some code or something? thank you very much
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 2007/12/13 11:51, Richard Stallman wrote: I'm talking about something else: what the system distro suggests that the user do. OpenBSD does not suggest that people use ports. We suggest people use binary packages. With two exceptions (which look like they're marked in error since their licenses do indeed allow source code redistribution), where we provide a binary package, we also provide the source distribution files used to build them.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
If a library has a book on [insert-controversial-topic-here], does that imply endorsement of said topic by the library or by someone who reads the book? Should the library burn copies of books on such topics to protect the citizenry? Absolutely not. A system distribution is more like an anthology than like a library. We do consider the editor of the anthology book responsible for the choice of what to include. An anthology contains the actual licensed material of the books. The ports tree only contains urls of these pieces of software you object to. Yet on Richard's side of this fence, emacs and gcc _directly include_ code which lets users use those two pieces of software on commercial operating systems. The gcc and emacs developers -- led by Richard -- have decided the directly include support for commercial operating systems in their respective distributions. Hell, the OpenBSD ports tree should perhaps contain patches which REMOVE such commercial operating system support. That's a fork Richard would surely approve of. Richard, your pants are full of hypocritical poo.
Re: Xorg warnings related to GART
Even the Xorg list archives don't contain any thing like my warnings, so I guess I will just live with it. Rob -- Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds Bob Marley, Redemption Song
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Dec 13, 2007 10:30 AM, Mayuresh Kathe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good people of MISC land, could we please drop this thread, its lasted way longer than really needed. I'm enjoying watching RMS struggle and fail to make any headway with his argument.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:01 -0500, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: However, it is trivially easy to use the gNewSense apt system to install unfree software. Any general-purpose system can run non-free software, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether a distribution refers people to the non-free software or not. ##The following does *NOT* in any way express the opinions or ##goals of OBSD. They are mine alone.## So what? I couldn't care less about the FSF or any free software initiative. I don't see any problem with someone trying to sell a piece of software that they produced through their own hard labor. If people want to write software and give it away for nothing, they are *free* to do that too. I don't get this whole unethical stance. It's total BS. If you don't want to pay for software, fine don't, but don't go on some religious crusade trying to get me to believe it's unethical so I won't either. If someone painted a picture and then tried to sell it for money in an art gallery then that would be unethical too? Oh, come on! I also don't give a rats ass whether Richard Stallman recommends OBSD or not and I don't think any of the developers do either. All this crappy thread has done is make Richard Stallman more Googleable. And I'm sorry that I facilitated that.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:10 -0500, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Your definition of free is replete with chains; you would deny the freedom of choice in the name of freedom. Freedom means having control of your own life; Freedom of choice is a partly accurate and partly misleading way to describe that, and taking that expression too literally leads to mistaken conclusions. Thus, I say I advocate freedom -- not freedom of choice. This always leads to the question of which freedom? In the area of software, I want a society in which users are free to run software, free study and change its source code and make their changed versions run, and free to redistribute changed and unchanged versions. In other words, a society in which non-free software more or less doesn't exist. Establishing a free society that endures generally requires not allowing people to give up freedom. In other words, it requires inalienable rights. I do not want a society in which people had those freedoms only until they gave them up. I do not say this with the expectation that you will agree with me. It sounds like you are as firmly convinced of your views as I am of mine. I hope, though, that at least you will understand better what my position is. Many fascists have used this argument for centuries. Oh dear, the people are too stupid to make their own decisions so we need to make them for them.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: Yes, that's what I was told. I was also told that OpenBSD's ports system includes non-free programs. Is that accurate too? (William Boshuck replied:) Strictly speaking, no. If you unpack ports.tar.gz you will find a bunch of makefiles, packing lists, c., all of which are free. I should more precisely have said that the OpenBSD ports system includes instructions for fetching, building and installing specific non-free programs. Yes, that would be the truth. What you did say, however, is not the truth. I usually simplify that to includes At which point you would not be telling the truth about OpenBSD. because I figured anyone who knows about the ports system understands those details, and because they don't change anything. It does change one thing (at least). Namely, it changes a true statement about OpenBSD into a lie about OpenBSD. Don't confuse my aims with those of others with whom you are exchanging messages. I am not trying to convince you to recommend OpenBSD. I want you to tell the truth.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 13/12/2007, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you believe that The Pirate Bay is guilty of copyright infringement? That is a legal question, not an ethical question. I do not know what the law of any given country would say about the Pirate Bay. You would need to ask a lawyer. Instead of that legal question, we could ask an ethical question: is The Pirate Bay's activity right or wrong? In general, I think people have a moral right to share copies of published works, so I see no reason to criticize the Pirate Bay in general. However, I would not recommend that as a place to look for software, both because some of the software might be non-free, and for security reasons. If OpenBSD could spin off the ports system (perhaps people could put it on the Pirate Bay), and break off connection with it, then it would cease to convey any message from OpenBSD to the users. Then I could recommend OpenBSD while not recommending its ports system. Currently, that option does not exist. That option does exist. Ports tree is not installed by default. Users are not required to install the ports tree. When installing software, the ports tree is viewed as a last resort by both users and developers of OpenBSD. So if you refer someone to use OpenBSD, and tell them not to use the ports tree, they'll do just fine without using it. C.
Re: Duplicate entries in the output of mixerctl
Hi,
Amarendra Godbole writes:
mixerctl output has some duplicate entries (duplicated names, but
different values), which leaves me confused. Here is the output:
I see... this happens when an item has both input and output
levels that can be adjusted.
Could you try this diff please? It should give you something
more like:
outputs.line=124,124
inputs.line=85,85
Thanks!
Index: azalia.c
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/sys/dev/pci/azalia.c,v
retrieving revision 1.45
diff -u -p -r1.45 azalia.c
--- azalia.c25 Nov 2007 18:13:40 - 1.45
+++ azalia.c13 Dec 2007 18:37:58 -
@@ -1609,13 +1609,24 @@ azalia_widget_label_widgets(codec_t *cod
w = codec-w[i];
if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_PIN_COMPLEX) {
pins[w-d.pin.device]++;
- if (pins[w-d.pin.device] 1)
- snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name), %s%d,
- pin_devices[w-d.pin.device],
- pins[w-d.pin.device]);
- else
- snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name), %s,
- pin_devices[w-d.pin.device]);
+ if (w-d.pin.device == CORB_CD_LINEIN) {
+ pins[CORB_CD_LINEOUT]++;
+ if (pins[CORB_CD_LINEOUT] 1)
+ snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name),
%s%d,
+ pin_devices[CORB_CD_LINEOUT],
+ pins[CORB_CD_LINEOUT]);
+ else
+ snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name), %s,
+ pin_devices[CORB_CD_LINEOUT]);
+ } else {
+ if (pins[w-d.pin.device] 1)
+ snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name),
%s%d,
+ pin_devices[w-d.pin.device],
+ pins[w-d.pin.device]);
+ else
+ snprintf(w-name, sizeof(w-name), %s,
+ pin_devices[w-d.pin.device]);
+ }
} else {
types[w-type]++;
if (types[w-type] 1)
Index: azalia_codec.c
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/sys/dev/pci/azalia_codec.c,v
retrieving revision 1.45
diff -u -p -r1.45 azalia_codec.c
--- azalia_codec.c 6 Dec 2007 19:58:48 - 1.45
+++ azalia_codec.c 13 Dec 2007 18:37:33 -
@@ -529,9 +529,7 @@ azalia_generic_mixer_init(codec_t *this)
snprintf(d-label.name, sizeof(d-label.name),
%s.mute, w-name);
d-type = AUDIO_MIXER_ENUM;
- if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_PIN_COMPLEX)
- d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_OUTPUT;
- else if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
+ if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_RECORD;
else
d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_INPUT;
@@ -553,9 +551,7 @@ azalia_generic_mixer_init(codec_t *this)
%s.%s.mute, w-name,
this-w[w-connections[j]].name);
d-type = AUDIO_MIXER_ENUM;
- if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_PIN_COMPLEX)
- d-mixer_class =
AZ_CLASS_OUTPUT;
- else if (w-type ==
COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
+ if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
d-mixer_class =
AZ_CLASS_RECORD;
else
d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_INPUT;
@@ -581,9 +577,7 @@ azalia_generic_mixer_init(codec_t *this)
snprintf(d-label.name, sizeof(d-label.name),
%s, w-name);
d-type = AUDIO_MIXER_VALUE;
- if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_PIN_COMPLEX)
- d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_OUTPUT;
- else if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
+ if (w-type == COP_AWTYPE_AUDIO_INPUT)
d-mixer_class = AZ_CLASS_RECORD;
else
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Theo de Raadt wrote: ... your pants are full of hypocritical poo. There's one for usr.bin/mg/theo.c -- Jack J. Woehr Director of Development Absolute Performance, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 303-443-7000 ext. 527
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Richard, you are a total hypocrite. You are in here creating a fuss about our software, saying it is non-free, when you are doing exactly the same thing yourself. Please see http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/faq2.html And ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ What's that, there? Emacs *binaries* for *Windows* Supplied right by Richard's http and ftp mirrors. Richard, I may be unfriendly, but you are a lying hypocritical asshole.
Re: Getting envolved
Bob Beck wrote: Users who can no invest the effort learn enough to use a simple interface do not deserve a reliable operating system. They deserve windows, and they deserve pop up buttong in their browsers that they click ok blindly for everything. I love this one. May be will need a bob.c along side the theo.c soon too! (;
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Richard Hypocrite Stallmann, we, OpenBSD, are endorsing non-free software? what is that: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/faq2.html ? old man, stop trolling.
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
Richard, while we do provide a free operating system, http://www.gnu.org/software/for-windows.html makes it total clear that you are a hypocrite and a liar. (while others promise the moon, we deliver.) - Marc
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
http://xkcd.com/356/ -- Christopher Linn celinn at mtu.edu | By no means shall either the CEC System Administrator II | or MTU be held in any way liable Center for Experimental Computation | for any opinions or conjecture I Michigan Technological University | hold to or imply to hold herein.
Re: Duplicate entries in the output of mixerctl
Hi, mixerctl output has some duplicate entries (duplicated names, but different values), which leaves me confused. Here is the output: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $] mixerctl outputs.dac.source=hdaudio outputs.line.source=dac2 outputs.line.mute=off outputs.line=124,124 outputs.line=85,85 outputs.line.dir=output outputs.line.boost=off outputs.line.eapd=off outputs.headphones.sour=dac2 outputs.headphones.mute=off outputs.headphones=124,124 outputs.headphones.boos=off outputs.speaker.mute=off outputs.speaker=124 outputs.mic=85,85 outputs.line.source=dac2 outputs.line.mute=off outputs.line=124,124 outputs.line=85,85 outputs.line.dir=output inputs.sel.source=dac2 inputs.sel2.source=beep outputs.sel2.mute=off outputs.sel2=119 outputs.sel3.mute=off outputs.sel3=120,120 outputs.sel4.mute=off outputs.sel4=120,120 outputs.sel5.mute=off outputs.sel5=120,120 outputs.pow.source=sel2 inputs.sel6.source=mix outputs.sel6.mute=off outputs.sel6=119,119 outputs.mic2.source=dac2 outputs.mic2.mute=off outputs.mic2=124,124 outputs.mic2=85,85 outputs.mic2.dir=output outputs.sel7.mute=off outputs.sel7=120,120 outputs.sel8.mute=off outputs.sel8=120,120 outputs.sel9.mute=off outputs.sel9=120,120 outputs.sel10.mute=off outputs.sel10=120,120 outputs.sel11.mute=off outputs.sel12.mute=off inputs.usingdac=03 (I have added empty lines around duplicated entries). Complete dmesg output is here: http://www.obscure.org/~amunix/dmesg.txt Can someone throw light on this? I am using azalia driver, on an ThinkPad X60 laptop. Thanks in advance. -Amarendra -- I think there is much development going on with the azalia driver since computers en masse are switching to HDA. I was able to get XMMS and GQmpeg working but every other program that uses a soundcard is borked. Rob. -- Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds Bob Marley, Redemption Song
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:58:51AM -0700, Tom Rosso wrote: On Dec 13, 2007 10:30 AM, Mayuresh Kathe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good people of MISC land, could we please drop this thread, its lasted way longer than really needed. I'm enjoying watching RMS struggle and fail to make any headway with his argument. isn't it like hitler in '44 ? cu -- paranoic mickey (my employers have changed but, the name has remained)
Re: cvsweb browsing out of sync with latest src?
On 12/10/07, Mayuresh Kathe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Nick, sorry to go against you, but do take a look at; http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/usr.bin/sudo/ It's been eliminated since there's a replacement by Todd under a non-GNU license. ~Mayuresh Crazy, but correcting myself, stuff is put inside sudo/sudo not in the main directory. Which incidentally brings up that it looks like cvsweb is a bit broken in places: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/usr.bin/sudo/sudo/Attic/tgetpass.c?rev=1.15content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup Error Error: Unexpected output from cvs co pbCheck whether the directory /usr/OpenBSD/cvs/CVSROOT exists and the script has write-access to the CVSROOT/history file if it exists.brThe script needs to place lock files in the directory the file is in as well./b
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If OpenBSD could spin off the ports system (perhaps people could put it on the Pirate Bay), and break off connection with it, then it would cease to convey any message from OpenBSD to the users. Then I could recommend OpenBSD while not recommending its ports system. Currently, that option does not exist. I have OpenBSD running on my machine, but I do not use the ports tree. Therefore the option of having OpenBSD without ports exists. You could still recommend OpenBSD except for its ports tree. I realise, though, that the reason for you recommending something or not is rather subjective and discussing it usually doesn't lead to anything useful. What I oppose is to say that OpenBSD recomends nonfree software. When you say OpenBSD recommends non-free software it leads people to think that the project tries to convince people to use non-free software. That's not true at all. The project doesn't support it and it doesn't try to tell the user he should use it. OpenBSD's port system merely acknolowdges the existence of non-free software and makes it easier for the people who chose to install it. That's hardly recommendation. Moreover, and this is subjective highly subjective, I think we all should try to make people's life easier and acknowledge others efforts, even if we think differently. Letting people maintain non-free packages is giving space to people who think differently than the OpenBSD developers. And that's a positive thing.
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: : It contains URL's to non-free software, and free Makefiles that knows how to build that non-free software. But the entire ports tree has no non-free software in it at all. Does that make it non-free? Even giving the URLs has the effect of referring people to those non-free programs. It gives those non-free programs legitimacy, and thus contradicts the idea that software should be free. Are all operating systems non-free then, because they can be used to write free Makefiles which compile non-free software? No, that's a totally different question. Q1: could your system support a port to install non-free program FOO. Q2: does your system come with a port to install FOO. The answer to Q1 is always yes. I'm concerned with Q2. It now seems fairly clear where Mr. Stallman draws the line. For him to recommend a distribution as a free software distribution it should ignore non-free software. Not pretend that non-free software does not exist, but just not point where to find it. OpenBSD's port tree is stated to contain (pointers to) some non-free software but mostly free so you have been warned, but it takes an active step by the user to filter the port tree if one wants to avoid non-free software. Therefore the OpenBSD distribution is not kosher in Stallman's view. If OpenBSD's port tree would be stated to contain only (pointers to) free software, that is the current port tree would be split into a free port tree in the distribution and a non-free tree to download from some other site ready to drop into the free port tree. Then the distribution would be Stallman-kosher. With a not too huge effort. If then the installation pages would have links to and explanation about the non-free part of the port tree, I do not know if that would render the whole distribution non-Stallman-kosher. But if there is enough benefit for OpenBSD to be on Stallman's list of free operating systems, to do such a change, that is a completely different question. And if Stallman's definition of a free software distribution is a good one, that is obviously debatable. Many feel OpenBSD is already freer than most, and I also feel it is. At least in spirit. But that is not enough for Mr. Stallman, and he is free to have that opinion. -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Dec 13, 2007 12:53 PM, Tom Rosso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's really going on is that you are helping them use the non-free software, which grants it legitimacy. That is what I object to. I don't believe anybody who has followed this thread over the last couple days could misunderstand your opinion on references to non-free software in a distribution. But I don't think I've seen a post from a single person on this mailing list who agrees with that opinion. If I'm wrong, let me know. That would be because this is BSDLand, whereas Richard lives over there in GPLLand. I'm sure things would be reversed if this thread were to take place over in GPLLand (and it would look even more differently in RedmondLand). I don't actually think Richard is diss'ing OpenBSD. That has not been my impression all this while. One big problem (beyond the current discussion) is that people seem to want to throw all the Linux issues onto Richard's shoulders - and I think he clarified pretty well above - if it's a FSF/GNU sponsored program, he'll speak up about it, but otherwise, he'll only speak up if he was asked to. In the last bruhaha about firmware and relicensing - remember this, Richard and Linus don't see eye to eye on things - why would people even link Richard to that issue? And for all those people who keep trying to say that OpenBSD doesn't support ports - we do. If we put it out, that's the support already. But - seriously, as a project, do we need the validation from FSF/Richard? Now, on the other hand, the question for Richard is this - if OpenBSD includes ports (on the CD), which is not an installable option, which the FAQ discourages you from using, how different/worse is this from a linux kernel that allows blobs to be installed? This is, of course, based on the assumption that you can load modules into gnewsense's running kernel. It may be that the option has been turned off (or unable to load tainted modules). If the kernel is compiled to retain the ability to load tainted modules, isn't that just as bad? -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity. -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted. -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0feature=related
Re: Strange line in the routing table after carp failover?
yes,that is the result of games carp plays with routes (which it shouldn not, imo, but anyway). it should finally work as advertised in -current even with unnumbered carpdevs. Hi Henning, Updating to -current did the trick. Thanks very much. What was the problem here? Charlie
Re: : : : rouge IPs / user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 12:35:03PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote: : or it might be a program forgetting to do a close. Does select() notify the application of FIN from the other side? If not, that would explain things, it wouldn't be reasonable for httpd to manually try and receive from all sockets in keepalive to see whether it needs to close the socket, since it will only wait KeepAliveTimeout (default 15s) before it closes them anyway. Nice suggestion, but if you've marked the fd for read I would expect select to notify if the other side does a shutdown(SHUT_WR). Other scenarios are also thinkable: like the server socket being blocked because of outgoing data that cannot be written out. That might prevent the server from doing a close too. But in the end the close will happen, otherwise you would run out of fd's very soon. -Otto The behaviour is starting to make sense now. Scenario: * The client connects to the server, sends its request and then closes the socket, that is shutdown() aka half-close. It can still read the reply. * The server accepts the connection, reads the request, and may or may not notice that the client has done a shutdown() - it is not important. Nevertheless the server can not close the socket since it has a reply to deliver. And the server host TCP stack has noticed the shutdown() so the socket already enters CLOSE_WAIT. * The server starts sending the reply which may be large e.g a file download. In the middle of this transfer the client's ethernet cable gets plugged out, the client host gets powered off, a firewall in the path goes bananas or whatnot. * The server is now stuck in a write() call since the server host TCP stack has to wait quite a while to be sure the connection is really dead. And the state is still CLOSE_WAIT. If the client program would die, the client host TCP stack would close the socket and tell the server host TCP stack, that would fail the hanging write() call. So there must be a harder error such as network outage or power outage to induce this problem. If this scenario is correct, there is nothing to do about it, except decreasing the likelyhood of the server socket being half-closed while sending the reply, and having KeepAliveTimeout in httpd.conf at its default (15) or slightly lower seems to do the trick. But I do not know how. If there is some quirk in httpd's implementation of the KeepAliveTimeout that makes it not notice the half-close and keeps the socket open the whole KeepAliveTimeout, that would explain it. -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: Even giving the URLs has the effect of referring people to those non-free programs. It gives those non-free programs legitimacy, and thus contradicts the idea that software should be free. there are reasons for the saying about rules being meant to be broken. it's great to have morals, if you can afford them, but if you stick to rules too rigidly (for example about what you should and should not recommend), sooner or later you'll end up arguing to justify your stance, rather than because you believe it to be correct. in the case of this thread, you are arguing against recommending openbsd based on criteria you have decided need to be met. i understand that. we all need to draw a line somewhere... given what the openbsd project stand for, and do, i wonder whether your stance is furthering the cause of promoting what we all want, or harming it. jmc
Intel DQ35MP
Hello, I've just installed OpenBSD current on an Intel DQ35MP motherboard with a Quad processor, this is the dmesg log. Some devices are not recognized (PCI slot, ethernet, etc) OpenBSD 4.2-current (GENERIC) #558: Tue Nov 20 10:36:15 MST 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC RTC BIOS diagnostic error 80clock_battery cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.39 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,CX16, xTPR real mem = 2097643520 (2000MB) avail mem = 2020409344 (1926MB) RTC BIOS diagnostic error 80clock_battery mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 07/26/07, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe2460 (30 entries) bios0: vendor Intel Corp. version JOQ3510J.86A.0559.2007.0726.0425 date 07/26/2007 bios0: Intel Corporation DQ35MP apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.2 apm0: battery life expectancy 0% apm0: AC off, battery charge unknown, estimated 0:00 hours pcibios at bios0 function 0x1a not configured bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xb400! 0xcb800/0x1e00! 0xcd800/0x1000 0xce800/0x1000 cpu0 at mainbus0 pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 vendor Intel, unknown product 0x29b0 rev 0x02 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 vendor Intel, unknown product 0x29b2 rev 0x02: aperture at 0x9020, size 0x800 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) vendor Intel, unknown product 0x29b4 (class communications subclass miscellaneous, rev 0x02) at pci0 dev 3 function 0 not configured pciide0 at pci0 dev 3 function 2 vendor Intel, unknown product 0x29b6 rev 0x02: DMA (unsupported), channel 0 wired to native-PCI, channel 1 wired to native-PCI pciide0: using irq 9 for native-PCI interrupt pciide0: channel 0 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) pciide0: channel 1 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) vendor Intel, unknown product 0x29b7 (class communications subclass serial, rev 0x02) at pci0 dev 3 function 3 not configured Intel ICH9 IGP AMT rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 not configured uhci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 9 uhci1 at pci0 dev 26 function 1 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 9 uhci2 at pci0 dev 26 function 2 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 10 ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 7 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 10 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x02 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x02 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x02 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 pciide1 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 Marvell 88SE6101 IDE rev 0xb1: DMA (unsupported), channel 0 configured to native-PCI, channel 1 configured to native-PCI pciide1: using irq 9 for native-PCI interrupt pciide1: channel 0 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) pciide1: channel 1 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x02 pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 4 Intel 82801I PCIE rev 0x02 pci5 at ppb4 bus 5 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 10 uhci4 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 11 uhci5 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 9 ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: irq 10 usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb5 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BA AGP rev 0x92 pci6 at ppb5 bus 6 ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel 82801IO LPC rev 0x02: PM disabled ahci0 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 vendor Intel, unknown product 0x2922 rev 0x02: irq 9, AHCI 1.2 scsibus0 at ahci0: 32 targets sd0 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: ATA, WDC WD3200AAKS-0, 12.0 SCSI2 0/direct fixed sd0: 305245MB, 38913 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sec, 625142448 sec total ichiic0 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 Intel 82801I SMBus rev 0x02: irq 9 iic0 at ichiic0 spdmem0 at iic0 addr 0x50: 1GB DDR2 SDRAM non-parity PC2-6400CL5 spdmem1 at iic0 addr 0x52: 1GB DDR2 SDRAM non-parity PC2-5300CL5 usb2 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb3 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb4 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub4 at usb4 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb5 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub5 at usb5 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb6 at uhci4: USB revision 1.0 uhub6 at usb6 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb7 at uhci5: USB revision 1.0 uhub7 at usb7 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 isa0 at ichpcib0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On 12/13/07, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Even giving the URLs has the effect of referring people to those non-free programs. It gives those non-free programs legitimacy, and thus contradicts the idea that software should be free. Dadgummit! Now we're going to have to tell everybody to stop using emacs! I hate that, since I love using emacs! But I had no idea that the FSF was leading me into software slavery! Look! http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/! And can you believe the README? This directory contains source and precompiled distributions for GNU Emacs on Windows NT/2000/XP and Windows 95/98/Me. This port is a part of the standard GNU Emacs distribution from the Free Software Foundation; the precompiled distributions are provided here for convenience since the majority of Windows users are not accustomed to compiling programs themselves. I just can't believe it. I'm crushed - crushed, I tell you! - to discover that the great Richard M. Stallman and his FSF have been actively encouraging me all these years to imperil the very foundations of a free society - not to mention the moral purity of my immortal soul! - by using non-free software. It would be bad enough if they had only provided a url, but - a precompiled binary? O misery! O shame! O, betrayal!
Re: Real men don't attack straw men
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 11:51:37AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: his absolutism also causes people to see BSD as a problem, a social failure. If some people think that, they did not get it from me. I do not call BSD either of those things. I say that releasing free software under a non-copyleft free software license is basically good (i.e., not evil), but that using copyleft is better. recently we saw theft of BSD to GPL, and a large part of the GPL community thinks there's no problem with that, that the BSD community is being petty to make an issue out of it. I don't think it is wrong in general to relicense code from BSD to GPL. However, in some cases I think it is more useful not to do so, in order to contribute changes back to the original BSD-licensed project. It is not just wrong it is fucking illegal. So much for ethics. If such an issue arises for a GNU package, and people think it is not doing the most useful thing, I will look at the issue and then if necessary discuss it with the developers. Go talk to some of those wireless developers in Linux. You'll find plenty examples of unethical behavior and blatant breaking the law. However, if such an issue arises for a program which is not a GNU package, I will not get involved unless the developers ask me for advice. Your advice is as useful as your recommendations. Last time the wireless issue was brought up you simply declined to comment. Ethics in action again! I don't know what your agenda is but it stinks. Tell us, who pays you again?
