Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Patrick Useldinger wrote: I am currently experimenting with ccd(4) and although it appears to work, I am uncomfortable with one point. I have configured 2 partitions as a JBOD (interleave 0). However, the first of these partitions is partition 'a' of one disk. So the first effect I had was that ccd0 appeared to have the same disklabel as the first disk. I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. I think you misread. It's enough to make sure the a partitions starts after the first track. Just run fdisk -i on a new (ccd) disk. It takes care of that. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#disklabel True, the FAQ is not 'offcial documentation' 2) that the size and position of the disklabel of partition 'a' is not clearly stated anywhere so that I can be certain that it doesn't get overwritten and that I am not wasting too much space. See above. Can anybody please shed some light on this? -Otto
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sunday 28 January 2007 11:02, Patrick Useldinger wrote: I am currently experimenting with ccd(4) and although it appears to work, I am uncomfortable with one point. I have configured 2 partitions as a JBOD (interleave 0). However, the first of these partitions is partition 'a' of one disk. So the first effect I had was that ccd0 appeared to have the same disklabel as the first disk. man ccd: Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the beginning of the component disk. see also thread on misc: CCD: started on 17 jan 2007 by Chris Mika how much one cylinder is, can be calculated with the numbers given by disklabel. ight about the following point but: i would not use partition 'a' for anything else then my boot partition. thus i never used 'a' as a member of a ccd, nor did i create an 'a' on a ccd. unfortunatly disklabel -E ccd0 did not work for me after 'fdisk -i ccd0', since 'ccd0c' had type '4.2BSD' not 'unused' as for raw devices. since the FAQ sais: Just use disklabel on it like you normally would to make the partition or partitions you want to use. Again, don't use the 'c' partition as an actual partition that you put stuff on. i used 'disklabel -e ccd0' to change the type to 'unused'. after that i created one big partition 'd' on the ccd0 drive. //llx I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere 2) that the size and position of the disklabel of partition 'a' is not clearly stated anywhere so that I can be certain that it doesn't get overwritten and that I am not wasting too much space. Can anybody please shed some light on this? Regards, -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:14:00PM +0100, christian widmer wrote: On Sunday 28 January 2007 11:02, Patrick Useldinger wrote: I am currently experimenting with ccd(4) and although it appears to work, I am uncomfortable with one point. I have configured 2 partitions as a JBOD (interleave 0). However, the first of these partitions is partition 'a' of one disk. So the first effect I had was that ccd0 appeared to have the same disklabel as the first disk. man ccd: Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the beginning of the component disk. see also thread on misc: CCD: started on 17 jan 2007 by Chris Mika how much one cylinder is, can be calculated with the numbers given by disklabel. ight about the following point but: i would not use partition 'a' for anything else then my boot partition. thus i never used 'a' as a member of a ccd, nor did i create an 'a' on a ccd. unfortunatly disklabel -E ccd0 did not work for me after 'fdisk -i ccd0', since 'ccd0c' had type '4.2BSD' not 'unused' as for raw devices. since the What version of OpenBSD are you using? On -current ccd0c should no longer appear as 4.2BSD. Ken FAQ sais: Just use disklabel on it like you normally would to make the partition or partitions you want to use. Again, don't use the 'c' partition as an actual partition that you put stuff on. i used 'disklabel -e ccd0' to change the type to 'unused'. after that i created one big partition 'd' on the ccd0 drive. //llx I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere 2) that the size and position of the disklabel of partition 'a' is not clearly stated anywhere so that I can be certain that it doesn't get overwritten and that I am not wasting too much space. Can anybody please shed some light on this? Regards, -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sunday 28 January 2007 15:19, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:14:00PM +0100, christian widmer wrote: On Sunday 28 January 2007 11:02, Patrick Useldinger wrote: I am currently experimenting with ccd(4) and although it appears to work, I am uncomfortable with one point. I have configured 2 partitions as a JBOD (interleave 0). However, the first of these partitions is partition 'a' of one disk. So the first effect I had was that ccd0 appeared to have the same disklabel as the first disk. man ccd: Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the beginning of the component disk. see also thread on misc: CCD: started on 17 jan 2007 by Chris Mika how much one cylinder is, can be calculated with the numbers given by disklabel. ight about the following point but: i would not use partition 'a' for anything else then my boot partition. thus i never used 'a' as a member of a ccd, nor did i create an 'a' on a ccd. unfortunatly disklabel -E ccd0 did not work for me after 'fdisk -i ccd0', since 'ccd0c' had type '4.2BSD' not 'unused' as for raw devices. since the What version of OpenBSD are you using? On -current ccd0c should no longer appear as 4.2BSD. 4.0 Ken FAQ sais: Just use disklabel on it like you normally would to make the partition or partitions you want to use. Again, don't use the 'c' partition as an actual partition that you put stuff on. i used 'disklabel -e ccd0' to change the type to 'unused'. after that i created one big partition 'd' on the ccd0 drive. //llx I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere 2) that the size and position of the disklabel of partition 'a' is not clearly stated anywhere so that I can be certain that it doesn't get overwritten and that I am not wasting too much space. Can anybody please shed some light on this? Regards, -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
Otto Moerbeek wrote: I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. I think you misread. It's enough to make sure the a partitions starts after the first track. Just run fdisk -i on a new (ccd) disk. It takes care of that. I am talking about the physical disk, not the ccd disk. In this case, the physical disk is wd1, which has been initialized by fdisk -i. I then created wd1a and wd1b. wd1's disklabel gets put into the beginning of wd1a if I understood correctly. Because when I create ccd0 with wd1a and wd1b as members, ccd0 has the same disklabel as wd1. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#disklabel True, the FAQ is not 'offcial documentation' To me it is. But the information isn't there. What comes close is disklabel(5) which states: The label is located in sector number LABELSECTOR of the drive, usually sector 0 where it may be found without any information about the disk ge ometry. Usually sector 0 is a little vague. Still confused, -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Patrick Useldinger wrote: Otto Moerbeek wrote: I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. I think you misread. It's enough to make sure the a partitions starts after the first track. Just run fdisk -i on a new (ccd) disk. It takes care of that. I am talking about the physical disk, not the ccd disk. In this case, the physical disk is wd1, which has been initialized by fdisk -i. I then created wd1a and wd1b. wd1's disklabel gets put into the beginning of wd1a if I understood correctly. Because when I create ccd0 with wd1a and wd1b as members, ccd0 has the same disklabel as wd1. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#disklabel True, the FAQ is not 'offcial documentation' To me it is. But the information isn't there. What comes close is disklabel(5) which states: The label is located in sector number LABELSECTOR of the drive, usually sector 0 where it may be found without any information about the disk ge ometry. Usually sector 0 is a little vague. Still confused, How are we supposed to help if you omit all relevant info? dmesg, disklabels, fdisk info... -Otto
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
Otto Moerbeek wrote: How are we supposed to help if you omit all relevant info? dmesg, disklabels, fdisk info... A good start would be to read my post, all the information is there. Except for dmesg, which is not useful in this case. -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
christian widmer wrote: man ccd: Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the beginning of the component disk. What is a raw partition in that case? In the examples I found, the members of the ccd disk were always wdxy such as wd1a, wd1b, which is exactly what I did. see also thread on misc: CCD: started on 17 jan 2007 by Chris Mika I did. But in that thread it doesn't become clear how much space to skip. i used 'disklabel -e ccd0' to change the type to 'unused'. after that i created one big partition 'd' on the ccd0 drive. Does the name really matter? Whether your partition is called 'a' or 'd', doesn't the disklabel get stored into the beginning of the first partition anyway? -pu
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
Patrick Useldinger wrote: Does the name really matter? Yes. Whether your partition is called 'a' or 'd', doesn't the disklabel get stored into the beginning of the first partition anyway? No. Actually, you have 16 partitions stored in the disklabel. This is OpenBSD not DOS.
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
Patrick Useldinger wrote: Otto Moerbeek wrote: I read through the mailing list archives and found a thread explaining that the disklabel is stored around the beginning of partition 'a' and that one should allocate a small partition 'a' which should not be made part of the JBOD. I think you misread. It's enough to make sure the a partitions starts after the first track. Just run fdisk -i on a new (ccd) disk. It takes care of that. I am talking about the physical disk, not the ccd disk. In this case, the physical disk is wd1, which has been initialized by fdisk -i. I then created wd1a and wd1b. wd1's disklabel gets put into the beginning of wd1a if I understood correctly. Because when I create ccd0 with wd1a and wd1b as members, ccd0 has the same disklabel as wd1. What I am uncomfortable with is that 1) this does not appear to be documented in the man pages anywhere http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#disklabel True, the FAQ is not 'offcial documentation' To me it is. But the information isn't there. What comes close is disklabel(5) which states: The label is located in sector number LABELSECTOR of the drive, usually sector 0 where it may be found without any information about the disk ge ometry. Usually sector 0 is a little vague. Still confused, -pu I'm far from an expert, but seems like OpenBSD manages to run on more than one architecture. Some of these even do something intelligent like having more than one way to bootstrap from disk, which has to be equivalent to having some means of chosing which hardware sector to boot from. Easiest way to test (assuming i386) is to do a DOS FORMAT /MBR
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Patrick Useldinger wrote: Otto Moerbeek wrote: How are we supposed to help if you omit all relevant info? dmesg, disklabels, fdisk info... A good start would be to read my post, all the information is there. Except for dmesg, which is not useful in this case. 1. I browsed through your posts and I did not see any post containing the requested info. Now I may have deleted it by accident, but for now I assume you did not post the requested info. If I'm wrong I apologize in advance for the two point below. 2. You are asking for help. I offered to help, but to be able to do that I need extra info. Hard info. Not some vague description. I think the one offering the help is the one deciding which info is relevant and in which form he wants it. 3. I think I just lost any motivation to help you furter. So long. -Otto
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
Patrick Useldinger wrote: Otto Moerbeek wrote: How are we supposed to help if you omit all relevant info? dmesg, disklabels, fdisk info... A good start would be to read my post, all the information is there. Except for dmesg, which is not useful in this case. -pu Bullshit. You ask for help. One of the most qualified people to assist you AND a very skilled developer attempted to help you and says you you did not provide enough info. Guess what? That means you either didn't provide it, or it is organized too poorly to be worth a busy person's time. In your case, both. The value of the dmesg was already demonstrated (see KRW's post). CCD works great as you are trying to use it. BTW: This message is coming to you from a computer with a ccd stripped /usr partition. It works. I used the man page documentation to implement it. It works. Your attitude is completely and totally rude and arrogant. I'll now give you all the assistance you so deserve:
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On 1/28/07 11:09 PM, Patrick Useldinger wrote: Guys, this is all turning to complete bullshit, and it's not only my fault. If anyone actually cared reading my post, my question was simple: == where is the disklabel stored, and what is its size? == If you don't know the answer you don't know if the questions is simple. If you really want to know, read the published code, obviously you don't want to do so. No problem that's why people offered their help. The question was generic, and I wanted a generic answer. Not the answer to the question where is MY disklabel stored in MY specific case. Now asking for a dmesg, fdisk or disklabel output makes no sense. Nor do the answers from your RTFM-bots. What's next - my social security number? If I would be you I would post what's asked. No problem if you repeat your question above it but if you want help and at least 3 very skillful people try to help you just do what they ask. +++chefren
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 11:09:17PM +0100, Patrick Useldinger wrote: Guys, this is all turning to complete bullshit, and it's not only my fault. If anyone actually cared reading my post, my question was simple: == where is the disklabel stored, and what is its size? == Being that I'm a ccd newbie, not an OpenBSD developer, etc., take the following with a grain of salt... In ccd(4)... Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the be- ginning of the component disk. This avoids potential conflicts between the component disk's disklabel(8) and the concatenated disk's disklabel. which, along with other things, leads me to believe that the underlying real partitions are combined and then accessed through a pseudo-device. Seems from there that disklabel would operate as normal, but on the pseudo-device. Unless there's some odd reason why that can't be done, it makes the most sense. If so, then the disklabel is just like any other disklabel, except that it'll be striped across real partitions, etc. People who actually know what they're talking about can tell us how off base I am. The question was generic, and I wanted a generic answer. Not the answer to the question where is MY disklabel stored in MY specific case. Now asking for a dmesg, fdisk or disklabel output makes no sense. Nor do the answers from your RTFM-bots. What's next - my social security number? Yes, that can be frustrating. It happens in mailing lists all over, and in real life, too. It used to happen to me *much* more often, but I've learned over the years to be careful how I ask things. Not that there was anything exceptionally wrong with how you asked, but it did NOT get the results you wanted. So... You expect me to read through all the documentation and the mailing list archives before posting. I did. Now I expect you to read my post before giving me unhelpful, rude and standard answers. Makes sense, no? Do you think you are helping OpenBSD in any way? Do you think that this kind of behaviour is going to make me respond another time when Theo asks for funding? Of course not. Go empty your own purse. Being arrogant is probably bearable if you are really really skilled. But if you are unable to read a post properly, then you should by all means stay humble. Think about it. I am used to the Slackware Linux community which is both skilled and helpful. Boy what a difference that makes. I do this for fun and I am not willing to take your bullshit just because you feel like it. I am sorry for this project, and I am sorry for Theo. I do respect him and the work he coordinates. But the moron index on this mailing list is just too high for me. So sad for a good idea. Sounds like you've donated money in the past, and that you've read this list before. So you know the terrain. Funny, I've gotten a lot of help here, and it's been damned good help. There's a lot of crap and nastiness on this list, but somehow I stay out of it without too much thought or effort. I've hardly ever drawn much heat on here, except for a couple of deserved corrections from Theo. How do I manage that? I don't care, because I'm not having a problem. You might want to think about it, though. As for donations, *I* donate because I get more back from this project than any other I've ever dealth with, not because people are nice to me. I like the code, and the direction the code has gone and is headed. That's exactly what I'm donating for. If you want to stop donating because people were mean to you - that's fine. The code will still be here if you want to use it. You can always use OpenBSD and hang out with the slack guys. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Patrick Useldinger wrote: Guys, this is all turning to complete bullshit, and it's not only my fault. If anyone actually cared reading my post, my question was simple: == where is the disklabel stored, and what is its size? == Strange that nobody distilled that form your original post... I interpreted your questions as being why do the disklabels overlap. The question was generic, and I wanted a generic answer. Not the answer to the question where is MY disklabel stored in MY specific case. Now asking for a dmesg, fdisk or disklabel output makes no sense. Nor do the answers from your RTFM-bots. What's next - my social security number? There is no generic answer, this is dependent on platform, disk geomtry, existence of (extended) DOS partitions and who knows what more. Note your original post does not mention even which platform you are running. For i386, check sys/arch/i386/i386/disksubr.c for the gory details. But for all practical purposes, the advise from the FAQ for i386 is sound: skip the first track. As for the rest of your post. So your question got misinterpreted. Big deal, instead of just refusing to give extra info and annoying the people trying to help you, you could have reformulated or elaborated on your question to clear things up. -Otto
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On 2007/01/28 23:09, Patrick Useldinger wrote: == where is the disklabel stored, and what is its size? == The question was generic, and I wanted a generic answer. There isn't a generic answer, this OS runs on 17 supported platforms and it varies. On some of them, disklabel -v -r disk will tell you.
Re: ccd, disklabel and partition 'a'
On Sunday 28 January 2007 17:47, Patrick Useldinger wrote: christian widmer wrote: man ccd: Note that the `raw' partitions of the disks should not be combined. Each component partition should be offset at least one cylinder from the beginning of the component disk. What is a raw partition in that case? In the examples I found, the members of the ccd disk were always wdxy such as wd1a, wd1b, which is exactly what I did. the 'raw' partition of /dev/wd1d is /dev/rwd1d see also thread on misc: CCD: started on 17 jan 2007 by Chris Mika I did. But in that thread it doesn't become clear how much space to skip. but i did mention it in my first reply. 1. man page sais 'one cylinder' 2. you need to look at the output of disklabel o calculate how much this is. i used 'disklabel -e ccd0' to change the type to 'unused'. after that i created one big partition 'd' on the ccd0 drive. Does the name really matter? Whether your partition is called 'a' or 'd', doesn't the disklabel get stored into the beginning of the first partition anyway? the name at least matters sometimes. as a said i'm not sure if it matters in your case - i did not read the code. but the `a' partition of the boot disk is the root partition, and the `b' partition of the boot disk is the swap partition and the 'c' partition is the whole drive. this does not say it is not possible to use 'a' on wd1 as long a it is not your boot disk. never the less i never play with the a, b, c's where not explicitly required. //llx -pu
