Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions
Tom: I would forward the opinion that Mr. Stephens has blathered some platitudes with little meaning to the current situation. I would further add that it looks like he wants to place himself in a position that will not hurt him - - - no matter how the next Council vote comes up. Real gutty stuff on his part here. Remember the song Old Man River? First line is Fish gotta swim? The next line to the song isn't Birds gotta fly.It's Stephens gotta blather. Hey, in the meantime, we gotta live with the man and his actions - - - until the next election. Jim Hornaday. From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, September 5, 2011 3:46:03 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions I guess his left leanings or should we say government leanings remain the same now much as during his selection to represent the people of Springfield. The current system doesn't work it is time to CHANGE. -- Forwarded message -- From: Framing the Questions nore...@onlinequickblog.com Date: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:37 AM Subject: New Post at Framing the Questions To: tom t.ma...@gmail.com Framing the Questions published a new post entitled Petition Musings--Part 2 on 9/5/2011 12:37:10 PM, written by R Stephens. Petition Musings--Part 2 Whether our heritage was comprised of Native Americans, Caucasians in the early days of America’s recorded history, Africans in the late 18th century and beyond, Asians during the beginning of the Industrial Age, Irish during the great Potato Famine, Italians, Germans, Cubans, or Vietnamese in the mid-70s—we are all either immigrants or descendants of immigrants.In 1630, Puritan John Winthrop preached a sermon to the Massachusetts Bay Colony entitled “A Model of Christian Charity.” In that sermon he indicated that their new community would be a “city upon a hill,” and would be watched by the world. Three hundred fifty years later, this phrase would be often echoed by the late President Ronald Reagan in his descriptions of America as “the shining city on the hill” for the rest of the world. The country will watch our actions here in Springfield. Will Springfield shine or will the tarnish spread? Permalink: framingthequestion.us/2011/09/05/petition-musings--part-2.aspx * Comment on this post. * Subscribe to future comments on this post. * Unsubscribe from this blog This is an automated message. -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion
Spfdgolf: I agree with you. Jody Adams is a unrepentant empire builder, and wants a new parks tax - - on top of what we are already paying and regardless of whether the people NEED more parks and new high price parks administrators. I find it refreshing that our new Presiding Commisioner Jim Vriebrock has squelched her - - temporarily. Vriebrock desperately needs new funds to alleviate the overcrowding in the county jail. I would say we voters are facing a new county tax proposal for law enforcement. As this issue develops, I will bombard (i.e, email) Vriebrock with the idea that any piggyback Parks tax on the law enforcement tax proposal will be a sure way for the public to turn down both requests. Jim Hornaday From: spfdgolf spfdg...@att.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, August 14, 2011 8:51:31 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion from this Friday listing, I see that Ms. Adams is full speed ahead on expanding her Parks Department. I don't believe she mentionedthree new assistantparks directors at $70,720 - $96,460 on her 2006 list of tax promises... This is an internal promotion position only... meaning if you have a son or daughter with an MBA or beyond who is not already a part of the city... They need not apply. Sort of a private club public position I would suppose one could simply vote no on any new taxes, as one never knows what they will really do with the funds... “INTERNAL JOB POSTING ONLY” http://www.springfieldmo.gov/jobs/vacancy/3340.html This announcement applies only to persons who are receiving pay as regular full-time or regular part-time City employees, who meet the minimum qualifications outlined on the attached job description. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF PARKS RECREATION 3 CURRENT VACANCIES Duties Serves in one of major program areas, with responsibility for the total supervisory operation and management of the City/County parks and recreation system. Plans, organizes, directs, controls and evaluates policies, procedures and guidelines as established by the City Council, County Commission, Springfield/Greene County Park Board, and the Director of Parks Recreation for the overall administration of quality leisure service activities, facilities, and services. Requires Graduation from an accredited college or university with a Bachelor’s Degree in Parks, Recreation, Business, Public Administration, Marketing, Architecture, Engineering, Facilities Management, Zoology, Conservation Management (depending on assignment) or related field plus at least four years of responsible work experience at a comparable supervisory level in the parks and recreation field. A Master’s Degree and/or continued/specialized education in the Parks Recreation field are preferred. Certified Park and Recreation Professional (CPRP) or other related licenses/certifications as deemed necessary. Attends evening and weekend meetings, special events, programs, etc. as required. See Job Description for Essential Duties and Qualifications. Salary $2,722.74 - $3,710.84 Bi-weekly is complete Salary Range. Application Deadline 5:00 p.m., Friday, August 19, 2011. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion
Jerry: Not having done anything but read the N-L, I would hazard the opinion that the shortage of circuit court judges is the worst long-term problem in local law enforcement. Getting the State to supply us with more judges will take an act of God and a turn-around in the State's finances. In the meantime, we are stuck with that problem. The County has wrung the last nickel out of their budget. The only thing that will alleviate their problem is a hypothetical big increase in sales taxes. The latest monthly payback from the State went down 5%. Or maybe the State will magnanimously pay the county the full per diem amount they are supposed to pay. HAH! I do agree that the lack of deputies in the jail creates an internal safety hazard, but adding more jailers is merely bandaging the wound without healing anything. Turning out the 'least' violent jail offenders on probation is not a good solution in any sense of the word. Our paying for more prosecuters will, in my opinion, do not anything significant in reducing the jail count - - as long as we are short of judges. Hey, maybe you have a better way to fix 'what is wrong with the system? The more I learn about the 'system', the worse it looks. I'm sorta stuck on any good ideas. Jim Hornaday From: Jerry Blevins jb...@mchsi.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, August 16, 2011 7:51:26 PM Subject: RE: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion If we are going to ever fix the need of overcrowding at the jail, we have to fix what is wrong with the system, it is broke!! Jerry From:missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com [mailto:missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Hornaday Jr. Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 7:48 PM To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion Spfdgolf: I agree with you. Jody Adams is a unrepentant empire builder, and wants a new parks tax - - on top of what we are already paying and regardless of whether the people NEED more parks and new high price parks administrators. I find it refreshing that our new Presiding Commisioner Jim Vriebrock has squelched her - - temporarily. Vriebrock desperately needs new funds to alleviate the overcrowding in the county jail. I would say we voters are facing a new county tax proposal for law enforcement. As this issue develops, I will bombard (i.e, email) Vriebrock with the idea that any piggyback Parks tax on the law enforcement tax proposal will be a sure way for the public to turn down both requests. Jim Hornaday From:spfdgolf spfdg...@att.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, August 14, 2011 8:51:31 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Full speed ahead on parks expansion from this Friday listing, I see that Ms. Adams is full speed ahead on expanding her Parks Department. I don't believe she mentionedthree new assistantparks directors at $70,720 - $96,460 on her 2006 list of tax promises... This is an internal promotion position only... meaning if you have a son or daughter with an MBA or beyond who is not already a part of the city... They need not apply. Sort of a private club public position I would suppose one could simply vote no on any new taxes, as one never knows what they will really do with the funds... “INTERNAL JOB POSTING ONLY” http://www.springfieldmo.gov/jobs/vacancy/3340.html This announcement applies only to persons who are receiving pay as regular full-time or regular part-time City employees, who meet the minimum qualifications outlined on the attached job description. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF PARKS RECREATION 3 CURRENT VACANCIES Duties Serves in one of major program areas, with responsibility for the total supervisory operation and management of the City/County parks and recreation system. Plans, organizes, directs, controls and evaluates policies, procedures and guidelines as established by the City Council, County Commission, Springfield/Greene County Park Board, and the Director of Parks Recreation for the overall administration of quality leisure service activities, facilities, and services. Requires Graduation from an accredited college or university with a Bachelor’s Degree in Parks, Recreation, Business, Public Administration, Marketing, Architecture, Engineering, Facilities Management, Zoology, Conservation Management (depending on assignment) or related field plus at least four years of responsible work experience at a comparable supervisory level in the parks and recreation field. A Master’s Degree and/or continued/specialized education in the Parks Recreation field are preferred. Certified Park and Recreation Professional (CPRP) or other related licenses/certifications as deemed necessary. Attends evening and weekend meetings, special events
Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions
Tom: Reading the sketchy details in today's N-L about the resolution of the budget debate, I'd say everybody lost. We are going deeper into debt, and the budget cuts (hahahahaha) won't occur for 10 years. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, August 1, 2011 8:49:18 AM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions I guess his sister and he are under the impression we are a democracy..? Sorry Bob but a representative republic of which we are is designed for the very problems we saw the past few months. GRIDLOCK is to be the norm not compromise, gridlock means the people retain their freedom. -- Forwarded message -- From: Framing the Questions nore...@onlinequickblog.com Date: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:35 AM Subject: New Post at Framing the Questions To: tom t.ma...@gmail.com Framing the Questions published a new post entitled How We Look Abroad . . . on 8/1/2011 7:35:43 AM, written by R Stephens. How We Look Abroad . . . The following comment came from my sister who lives in Spain. I liked the Warren Buffet quote (although generally I prefer Jimmy). All this mess is so embarrassing from over here. The U.S. is set up as the best example of democracy in the world, what many other countries, especially emerging democracies were trying to imitate---and look at it. It is just feeding the anti-American feelings and leaving us wide open to very harsh criticism. This debacle reaches much farther than the U.S. borders. Not much to add to that. Permalink: framingthequestion.us/2011/08/01/how-we-look-abroad---.aspx * Comment on this post. * Subscribe to future comments on this post. * Unsubscribe from this blog This is an automated message. -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions
That's why I said we lost BIG! You called it. From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, August 1, 2011 9:24:25 AM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions One congress cannot bind the hands of another congress so in 2012 a NEW congress comes to town with a higher debt ceiling and a clean slate on everything except the spending. KISS them decreases good bye one only need to look at the Reagan presidency to see what happens when you compromise and make future deals. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:53 AM, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Tom: Reading the sketchy details in today's N-L about the resolution of the budget debate, I'd say everybody lost. We are going deeper into debt, and the budget cuts (hahahahaha) won't occur for 10 years. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, August 1, 2011 8:49:18 AM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fwd: New Post at Framing the Questions I guess his sister and he are under the impression we are a democracy..? Sorry Bob but a representative republic of which we are is designed for the very problems we saw the past few months. GRIDLOCK is to be the norm not compromise, gridlock means the people retain their freedom. -- Forwarded message -- From: Framing the Questions nore...@onlinequickblog.com Date: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:35 AM Subject: New Post at Framing the Questions To: tom t.ma...@gmail.com Framing the Questions published a new post entitled How We Look Abroad . . . on 8/1/2011 7:35:43 AM, written by R Stephens. How We Look Abroad . . . The following comment came from my sister who lives in Spain. I liked the Warren Buffet quote (although generally I prefer Jimmy). All this mess is so embarrassing from over here. The U.S. is set up as the best example of democracy in the world, what many other countries, especially emerging democracies were trying to imitate---and look at it. It is just feeding the anti-American feelings and leaving us wide open to very harsh criticism. This debacle reaches much farther than the U.S. borders. Not much to add to that. Permalink: framingthequestion.us/2011/08/01/how-we-look-abroad---.aspx * Comment on this post. * Subscribe to future comments on this post. * Unsubscribe from this blog This is an automated message. -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself
Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Fw: City of Springfield News Release - January 2010 Crash Report Card
Tom: OK, there is the MoLiCo list. Who else would you recommend for distribution? I'll forward to anybody with an email address. You can forward it, as far as I'm concerned, to any list you might have. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 6:00:12 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Fw: City of Springfield News Release - January 2010 Crash Report Card This info should be circulated to everyone we know.. Gentlemen: Gentlemen: Don Quixote's lance pierces the phantom windmill's sails - - again. Prediction of who will be standing at time of next council vote on red light cameras: windmill 2, Don Quixote 0. Jim Hornaday - Forwarded Message From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net To: Nick Ibarra ibarraz...@yahoo.com Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 3:04:49 PM Subject: Fw: City of Springfield News Release - January 2010 Crash Report Card Nick: Springfield city administration has continuously promoted the idea that the red light cameras have fantastically improved the safety of citizens as they went through the sixteen installed intersections. If the city's police reports are to believed, the claim that the lights improved the safety by any significant percentage, the administration's improvement claims are statistically wrong. I sent this email message to council over a year ago. The message's appended file contains sufficient proof that there was NO improvement in the number of accidents or any improvement in the number of accidents causing injury. I have had absolutely no response from anyone in the city or from council following submission of my email. (not surprised) As far as I'm concerned, the whole camera installation fiasco is nothing but a desire to control people and to provide a new revenue stream from fines. It has nothing to do with improving life for Springfield citizens. The last contract was supposed to make money for the city. It didn't. Is the installation cost and operating cost of the next camera system going to be lower than last time? If it isn't, Springfield won't even have any justification for installation with the idea that cameras will be a revenue stream. Re-installation of the cameras is coming up for council consideration and vote. It's possible you somehow didn't get this email message a year ago. You got it now. I will be most interested in your council pronouncements when this topic comes up for discussion. Springfield has better things to do with it's money. I hope you vote NO! Jim Hornaday - Forwarded Message From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net To: c...@springfieldmo.gov; citycoun...@springfieldmo.gov Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 3:11:05 PM Subject: Fw: City of Springfield News Release - January 2010 Crash Report Card People of City of Springfield administration, members of Springfield City Council I find it interesting that you (the City) would report the comparative number of total car crashes for a month's time in Springfield, and have never reported any numbers of crashes and/or injuries that occurred specifically on the intersections monitored by the red light cameras. Let's face it. Prior council members and prior administration people sold the citizens of Springfield on the value of these monitoring cameras with the presumption that installation of these cameras would reduce accidents and reduce injuries to citizens. Being a somewhat curious person, I downloaded all the Springfield on-line police call records from June 30, 2005 to March 13, 2010, and then sifted out all the accidents that occurred on these monitored intersections. I then compared all the 'before installation' reports to 'after installation' reports for each of the intersections. The results of this analysis are appended to this report. I believe the results can properly be stated: There was a slightdecrease in the frequency of all reported accidents occurring at these intersections when the cameras were activated. i.e, cameras may have reduced the number of minor fender-benders at the subject intersections. There was a slight increase in the frequency of reported accidents resulting in injuries at these intersections when the cameras were activated. i.e, the cameras did not reduce the frequency of serious collisions at the subject intersections - - or may have actually increased then frequency of injuries. This second observation doesn't seem to validate your claim that monitoring cameras would improve citizens' safety. The current council recently approved a resolution aimed at asking the Missouri State Supreme Court to review their recent decision forcing the city to cease using the cameras as monitoring devices. I understand the City was intending to hire outside legal assistance in this effort, and there was some likelihood that money for this effort would have to be taken out of the City's emergency
Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network
Aw shucks, Miss Linda. From: Linda Herd linda.h...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 3:21:02 AM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Jim, I never get tired of what you write. I read every word of what you write and am grateful to have the opportunity to read your opinions. You have nothing but intelligence and caring for our country. I have said it before. You are the greatest and we are lucky to have you with us. Linda Herd. From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:11:32 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Linda: I believe Hitler and Stalin's national propaganda mills operated on the principle that any old lie will be completely accepted by the populace if it repeated endlessly and there was NO opposing view to distract peoples' hearing of the lie. I'm old enough to remember this very workable propaganda rule. The liberal media is certainly repeating their lies ad nauseum. The critical difference in end acceptance of any story will be how frequently and how well the conservative viewpoint on any issue is presented. We are in the midst of competing campaigns where the government and liberal media would LOVE to shut off all the conservative presentations by any means possible. Ultimately we can hope the majority of people will listen to noise and babble now, and be able to conclude who threw more mud at who, and they will decide which story is more correct or closer to the truth. Notice I did not say ALL people. They are some fractions on both sides of the fence that are so biased they refuse to listen to anything but their specific brand of mud. It's a battle for the minds of the people that listen that will ultimately be a majority that will decide the issue. Just remember, it's the same type of battle that turned over the majority control of the House of Representative in the last election. It took 2 full years for people to discover the Democrats were more actively screwing up our government than the Republicans. It'll take another 2 years to make a complete change. Geez, you asked me for a simple comment, and I go on for paragraphs. There is a diagnostic word for my problem: Loghorrea Forgive me for doing too much. Jim Hornaday From: Linda Herd linda.h...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 1:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network James, If this is just striking out at your opponent it seems that this will fail. The liberal writing these things should be fairly easily exposed shortly. I have paid close attention to the Tea Party. I've been talking out this idea for years and of course no one paid any attention. It take the right people in the right places to get this started. I have tried to find anything about violence and the Tea Party. I just cannot find any legitimate source. This sucks for now but I just cannot believe it will stick. It may be a bad move on the progressive's plan. I used to be a democrat, but never espoused what the progressives believed. They ran me off the playing field. Linda From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 10:52:50 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Linda: It's fairly easy to figure out. The liberal media (and fuzzy thinkers) can and will seize on any topic and/or issue and immediately blame their opposition for any reprehensible action carried out by some isolated psycho nut. Perfect example of dirty smear campaigning. I'm surprised they didn't add George W. to the list of perpetrators. Jim Hornaday From: Linda Herd linda.h...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 8:43:15 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Bloggers, I read this with the intention of finding correlations of these actions with the Tea Party. I can not seem to figure this one. Does any one have any ideas on this? Linda Herd - Forwarded Message From: Darla, ADMIN / National Director sh...@patriotactionnetwork.com To: linda.h...@sbcglobal.net
Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network
Linda: I believe Hitler and Stalin's national propaganda mills operated on the principle that any old lie will be completely accepted by the populace if it repeated endlessly and there was NO opposing view to distract peoples' hearing of the lie. I'm old enough to remember this very workable propaganda rule. The liberal media is certainly repeating their lies ad nauseum. The critical difference in end acceptance of any story will be how frequently and how well the conservative viewpoint on any issue is presented. We are in the midst of competing campaigns where the government and liberal media would LOVE to shut off all the conservative presentations by any means possible. Ultimately we can hope the majority of people will listen to noise and babble now, and be able to conclude who threw more mud at who, and they will decide which story is more correct or closer to the truth. Notice I did not say ALL people. They are some fractions on both sides of the fence that are so biased they refuse to listen to anything but their specific brand of mud. It's a battle for the minds of the people that listen that will ultimately be a majority that will decide the issue. Just remember, it's the same type of battle that turned over the majority control of the House of Representative in the last election. It took 2 full years for people to discover the Democrats were more actively screwing up our government than the Republicans. It'll take another 2 years to make a complete change. Geez, you asked me for a simple comment, and I go on for paragraphs. There is a diagnostic word for my problem: Loghorrea Forgive me for doing too much. Jim Hornaday From: Linda Herd linda.h...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 1:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network James, If this is just striking out at your opponent it seems that this will fail. The liberal writing these things should be fairly easily exposed shortly. I have paid close attention to the Tea Party. I've been talking out this idea for years and of course no one paid any attention. It take the right people in the right places to get this started. I have tried to find anything about violence and the Tea Party. I just cannot find any legitimate source. This sucks for now but I just cannot believe it will stick. It may be a bad move on the progressive's plan. I used to be a democrat, but never espoused what the progressives believed. They ran me off the playing field. Linda From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 10:52:50 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Linda: It's fairly easy to figure out. The liberal media (and fuzzy thinkers) can and will seize on any topic and/or issue and immediately blame their opposition for any reprehensible action carried out by some isolated psycho nut. Perfect example of dirty smear campaigning. I'm surprised they didn't add George W. to the list of perpetrators. Jim Hornaday From: Linda Herd linda.h...@sbcglobal.net To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 8:43:15 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fw: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Bloggers, I read this with the intention of finding correlations of these actions with the Tea Party. I can not seem to figure this one. Does any one have any ideas on this? Linda Herd - Forwarded Message From: Darla, ADMIN / National Director sh...@patriotactionnetwork.com To: linda.h...@sbcglobal.net linda.h...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 5:28:53 PM Subject: Check out Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics on Patriot Action Network Patriot Action Network ONE MAN WITH COURAGE IS A MAJORITY Thomas Jefferson Darla, ADMIN / National Director Check out the discussion 'Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics'Make sure and tweet and facebook the truth! DD Discussion posted by Darla, ADMIN / National Director: Despicable but typical! We must stand our ground and not retaliate or get into a sparring contest with those making these obtuse comments Discussion link:Dems, Media Blame Tea Party, Palin for Shooting; Shooter Linked to Leftwing Politics About Patriot Action Network 85123 members 36150 photos 369 songs 7018 videos 47886 discussions 1939 Events 42219 blog posts To control which emails you receive on Patriot Action Network
Re: [MoLiCo] Fw: The Citizen's Stop Sign (Paul Jacob rejoices as voters rout red-light robbery)
Fred: About the time the MO supreme court effectively cut Springfield's red light cameras out of action, I was working up a SGF police report study of the intersections w/cameras (accumulation of two years' accidents BEFORE installation of each of the red lights, versus two years' accidents AFTER camera installation.) The results indicated there was a slight (but real) increase in the total number of accidents following installation (for all 16 intersections), and there was a statistically insignificant decrease in the number of car accident personal injuries following installation. In short, installation and operation of the 16 cameras didn't do squat for improving the safety of driving through intersections in SGF. Now, do you think this is an issue that is likely to come up again for discussion and/or approval by Council? If it is, I can dig up the data and dust it off. If not, it can stay dormant. Your decision. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: City Council citycoun...@springfieldmo.gov; MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Young Conservatives ty...@googlegroups.com Cc: ACMN a...@yahoogroups.com; ACT! for America-Spfd actspg...@mchsi.com; Campaign for Liberty-SGF springfield...@yahoogroups.com; Freedom Fighters freedomfightersforamer...@yahoogroups.com; Missouri C4L mo...@googlegroups.com; Springfield Resistance springfieldresista...@yahoogroups.com; Springfield-MO-912 springfield-missouri-912ers-l...@meetup.com Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 8:34:18 AM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fw: The Citizen's Stop Sign (Paul Jacob rejoices as voters rout red-light robbery) November 29, 2010 The Citizen’s Stop Sign What an election year. It's not just the drubbing dealt to many statist incumbents that warrants a little triumphalism. We can also cheer about ballot measures whose passage means the defeat of very specific attacks on the citizenry. Several local referendums targeted all those ticket-triggering red-light cameras that have been popping up. The main purpose of the gotcha-gizmos seems to be lunging for the wallets of hapless motorists, not enhancing anybody's safety. Voters are rejecting this fancy tax on driving. In Houston, a group called Citizens Against Red Light Cameras pushed for a ballot question to chuck the cameras. Voters passed it, despite the apoplectic opposition of the city council and the company operating the cameras, American Traffic Solutions. Camera ordinances were also felled in two Ohio towns, Chillicothe and Heath, and in College Station, Texas. In Anaheim, California, 73 percent said Yes to banning red-light cameras. It was a tougher battle in Mukilteo, Washington, where ATS tried to stop voters from deciding on the cameras. Citizen activist Tim Eyman, who also has a slew of successful tax-limitation initiatives under his belt, led the effort to combat that obstructionism, and the state supreme court ordered ATS to back off. The kill-the-cameras measure went on to pass by 70 percent. It's great whenever voters call a halt to political predation. By no method can they do so more directly and effectively than via the right of initiative and referendum. This is Common Sense. I'm Paul Jacob. Comment on this episode | View/download the PDF Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge and Citizens in Charge Foundation, which sponsors both Common Sense and Paul's weekly Townhall Column. The opinions expressed in Common Sense are Paul Jacob's and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Citizens in Charge or Citizens in Charge Foundation. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] it is time
Yeah, Rah! From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 1:13:21 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] it is time to bring the topic of Muslims to a close. This group when originally formed was for such items as what is happening with city council and the workings of the state. It has been brought to my attention that the conversation currently under discussion has become more like a NASCAR race where the posters have now completed a few laps around the topic and yet were back at the same point we were when first started. If there is nothing NEW to add to this discussion the rest of the postings will see there way to the recycle bin for safe keeping. Usually I will let something go on until I hear complaints about the topic or the longevity of such and I'm now receiving those e-mails to bring this topic to a close. Anything Muslim will be deleted until the first of the year then I will start proof reading to see if it has any relevance to anything. I'm not infringing upon your free speech rights either because in a group such as this you are beholden to the creators guidelines. Let's remain civil without discriminating against anyone who has yet to do anyone any harm. tom -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] Bob Stevens
All: oh, that is so true. The only arguments that were considered in Monday night's council meeting were: 1) there are lots of poor on-the-edge people that need CU's services, and they can't afford the first bit of an increase in rates, on the other hand, 2) CU is a wonderful organization that somehow provides electricity, gas, water, and sewer service for lesser prices than any utility in the midwest for those who can pay their monthly bill, therefore whatever CU wants is totally justified. The fact that CU never proved they really honest-to-god needed a rate increase was totally ignored by the council and those that got up and spoke about the unfairness of any rate increase. Council is duplicitous. Council members and people with bitches about CU picked easily ignored reasons for their complaints. Council's bleeding hearts hoped that some undefined people and totally undefined organizations will be good Samaritans and take care of those unpaid bills. The hot-head nay-sayers said John Twitty (the arrogant head honcho) needs to have his salary halved. Small wonder the damn rate increase was passed by council. Fred Ellison's totally valid questions about the validity of any rate increase were swept out the door before the meeting, without a single consideration, and were treated as though they never were brought up for consideration. People, we got problems here in River City, and it's not 8-ball pool. Jim Hornaday From: Eric Vought evou...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 11:57:17 AM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Bob Stevens On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:13 PM, Janice wrote: Linda- If this is any indication of Stephens thoughts - I don't think he is on our side- but you all be the judge Of course, what Stevens says is true as far as it goes--- it does legitimately cost money to run a utility and good people are worth paying money for. The problem is that a municipal utility is a monopoly--- the price is not set by competition and people don't have (much) choice about how they obtain their utilities in the greater Springfield area. The flip-side of that is that the utilities must expect intense scrutiny over what they spend and why. And clearly CU has not always spent money well. It is easy to blasé about expenditures when it is someone else's money. I would expect that, with prices going up across the board, CU's rates will need to go up at some point pretty much no matter what. But that means that the baseline budget has to be as trim as possible to lessen the impact of overall-market price shifts, CU's rates in turn affect the price of every product and service made in the area (all two of them), so rate increases ripple throughout the local economy. Sincerely, Eric Vought Faith does not absolve us from trying to understand our world and make moral distinctions with the eyes and brain given us. Religion is as much responsibility as direction: Duty not Distinction. --This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] SPFD city council agenda review
Tom: Yes, I will attend. In review of the upcoming 7-12-10 meeting's agenda, I didn't see any glaring citizens' concern items that would get me upset or indications that council/administration was promoting any new economic/taxation/budget disasters. Did I miss something? Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, July 9, 2010 3:24:15 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] SPFD city council agenda review July 10 @ 8:00 AM south side Golden Corral. -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] FW: These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:
Cathy: I got this message first hand from a series of trips to Poland about 10 years ago shortly after Poland broke away from the Soviet Union. I was sent over there to audit the quality of rail being produced in the biggest mill in Katowice. In talking to the metallurgists and workers at this mill, I asked them Why did you break away from the Russians? The answer was simple We were starving. The reason they were starving was not ever part of the news. The collective farms had two types of workers. The ones that worked, and the ones that goldbricked and did nothing. Everybody got exactly the same pay - - regardless of whether they worked or not. After a decade of this foolishness, the real 'workers' got tired of doing all the work, and decided to sit back and collect their wages just like everyone else.It was probably the same in the factories and mills. The farm system fell apart. The equipment didn't get repaired, the crops weren't planted, what did get up was inefficiently harvested, and damn little got to the people. The Russians weren't going to feed the Poles. The Poles were supposed to feed the Russians. People got really hungry, and decided the had to go back to work and earn their own living - - again. It took them a long time to get up the courage to kick the Russians out. They suffered a lot. But they did what they had to do. Poland is one of the best European countries going now. We are slowly going down the road to what Poland went through. We are doing it by electing liberal/socialist Democratic leaders that sell us baloney with the label of political/environmental correctness, and are trying to repress/control us as fast as they can. I don't trust the biased media, the current Congress or any part of the current Administration. Jim Hornaday From: CathyM catr...@juno.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 11:23:42 AM Subject: [MoLiCo] FW: These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read: David Vincent Gilbert, regarding Obama’s presidency….. These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. 5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. CathyM Catren's Shar Pei Catren's Leather Show Accessories KillThe Killing Fields Bills of the HSUS www.americanssupportinganimalownership.com -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Press Release 02-02-2010
Hey Tom: If you get a response from Purgason, pass it around. I, for one, would like to see it. I am up in the air yet as to who I would like to support for this office - - or conversely, work against. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 1:26:20 PM Subject: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Press Release 02-02-2010 -- Forwarded message -- From: Senator Chuck Purgason i...@keepyourchange2010.org Date: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:23 PM Subject: Press Release 02-02-2010 To: t.ma...@gmail.com From Senator Chuck Purgason For the past several months, I have had the opportunity to travel our great state and talk to the people who live and work and struggle to provide for their families. I have found out that the concerns I have with the growth of our federal government are real and are shared by the citizens of this state. Mounting federal debt and the growth of government in general are major concerns as more and more of the debt is passed on to our children and grandchildren. Currently, our debt is reaching unsustainable levels that put our nation’s financial future at risk. This year alone our debt ceiling been raised to $14,000,000,000,000.00. At the current rate of growth, by the year 2020 this debt will be almost doubled unless we begin electing people who will deal with these problems instead of passing them on to our children and grandchildren and other future generations to pay for. As we will elect a new Senator from this state in November, I think it is very important that we elect someone who will deal with these issues and not become part of the problem as so many of our elected leaders have become. In my race to be your United States Senator, I have published a Contract with Missouri. This contract can be seen at KeepYourChange2010.org. Our country is at the crossroads, do we continue down the road to bigger and bigger deficits with the same leadership that got us into this downward spiral or do we elect a new generation of leaders that will make the hard choices and work to renew our nations promise for future generations? The terms of the Contract with Missouri include voting only for a balanced budget. Voting for a budget, wishing it was balanced, and putting off tough decisions cannot continue. We must have leaders willing to stand up and work until the budget is balanced and committed to voting for a budget only if it is balanced. With the federal government borrowing $20,000,000,000.00 a week just to pay the bills, we must swear off the passing of earmarks. We cannot allow members of Congress to continue with the credit cards running up debt on this country. The failure of Congress to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac contributed to the fall of the housing market. We must have leaders willing to stand up and fight against the special interests that want to continue business as usual in our nation’s Capitol. Congressman Blunt has taken more PAC money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than any member of Congress.* We must have leaders that swear off the taking of campaign funds from companies that have been bailed out or operate on taxpayer funds. Other campaign contract issues include pledging to serve only two terms, no campaign fundraisers outside the state of Missouri, and no members of my family will be employed as lobbyists. I truly believe that we must have leaders willing to stand up to the special interests in Washington and begin working for the long term viability of our nation. They must show leadership and tell the truth about the problems we are facing as a nation. This is my commitment to the people of the State of Missouri. * Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=44041146msgid=214365act=WHHYc=642880destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Fnews%2F2008%2F09%2Fupdate-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html ? This message was sent from Senator Chuck Purgason to t.ma...@gmail.com. It was sent from: Purgason for U.S. Senate, 2680 County Road 7360, Caulfield, MO 65626. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below. Email Marketing by Manage your subscription -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity
Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Press Release 02-02-2010
Eric; Thanks for sharing your opinions as to where Purgason stands on a bunch of very important issues. My step-son is a medium-sized beef rancher in eastern Missouri. I have hear all kinds of stuff from him on the NAIS issues, and I agree those are more than simple 'agricultural' issues that have great import to city dwellers. So far, Purgason sounds not just good, but the best for replacing Blunt. Jim Hornaday From: Eric Vought evou...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 4:39:24 PM Subject: Re: [MoLiCo] Fwd: Press Release 02-02-2010 On Feb 8, 2010, at 4:15 PM, James Hornaday Jr. wrote: Hey Tom: If you get a response from Purgason, pass it around. I, for one, would like to see it. I am up in the air yet as to who I would like to support for this office - - or conversely, work against. Jim Hornaday I tend to get responses from him when I write. Sometimes it takes a while because he tends to answer personally. So far, I am supporting him for the Senate seat. Having looked over his MO Senate record, heard him talk, and spoken to him personally a few times, I think we could do much worse. For my part, his action on small farming issues is an important factor. He is himself a small farmer and not just on paper--- he knows what he is talking about and can speak to the issues which concern us family farmers. He has been a strong opponent of NAIS, was the sponsor of a number of anti-NAIS bills, including the one which finally killed Animal ID here. Now, after the bill has passed and he has gotten his kudos from the activist community, he has not stopped pushing but has been riding the USDA and the auction system to ensure that the law is complied with. Obviously, you city folk may have different priorities than I do, but I think he is serious about curtailing spending and government overreach (he is a current cosponsor of the anti-health takeover bill and several other 10th Amendment-related bills in the MO Senate) that benefits everyone. But, he is going against strong name recognition in the primary and needs people on the street getting his information out. I would suggest that, no matter who the Libertarian and Constitutional parties are putting forward, it is to everybody's benefit to get Mr. Purgason through the Republican primary. If he wins, we may actually have to choose between several good candidates in the general election. If he loses, we would still have a 3rd party option. I will not vote for Roy Blunt, no matter what party he claims to represent. Sincerely, Eric Vought Faith does not absolve us from trying to understand our world and make moral distinctions with the eyes and brain given us. Religion is as much responsibility as direction: Duty not Distinction. --This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: it appears indeed that the city is in direct competition with the private sector with an advantage
Eric: While this business appears to be a city subsidized operation, have you actually gone out and checked the prices of trees in commercial lots around the city? What if commercial prices are lower than the city's prices? If the city prices are higher, and any citizen bought a city tree, wouldn't that be an indication that the city doesn't have any bargains ,and any citizen buying a city tree would be less than smart? If the city's tree prices are lower than the commercial prices, doesn't that suggest the commercial prices are too high? And citizens should buy city trees? Maybe I'm simplifying the situation. Tell me if I'm wrong. Jim Hornaday From: Eric Vought evou...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 3:12:36 PM Subject: Re: it appears indeed that the city is in direct competition with the private sector with an advantage On Dec 7, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Tom Martz wrote: Basically, we contracted for a limited number of Christmas trees (100) through regular bidding process guidelines as required by the City’s Purchasing Division. We then offer the program as a “break- even” type of service to interested patrons visiting the park, with tree prices starting at $35 (6 ft.) and ranging to $50 (8 ft.) and $75 (10 ft.), based upon size and condition. As you might imagine, our feedback from the public regarding this service has been extremely positive. Indeed. The specific problem is that by selling the trees at a break even cost, they are not accounting for the taxpayer subsidy of their own administrative overhead, the sales venue, advertising, etc. A business cannot simply ignore those costs and is at an unfair advantage. Why not allow vendors to pay a small fee to come in and sell their trees. Then the vendor is paying for their own overhead and can make the competitive decision of whether the venue is worth the cost. Not to mention a small amount of revenue for the park which does not need to be taken out of citizens' pockets by force. Or do this through the Springfield farmers' market which is already set up as a public produce sales venue. It is the exact same problem with accounting for government health care. There is a lot of overhead service provided to Medicare by other government agencies (e.g. IRS, GAO, HHS) which is not accounted for in the cost of Medicare service or calculated in the 'savings' over private insurance. It is dishonest bookkeeping. It is criminal when Enron does it, it should be criminal when the government does it. Sincerely, Eric Vought Faith does not absolve us from trying to understand our world and make moral distinctions with the eyes and brain given us. Religion is as much responsibility as direction: Duty not Distinction. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
Re: Tomorrow Townhall meeting
Hey, good! I too will try to meet the faithful and friendly at this Rendezvous Coffee before 9:00 am. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:03:21 PM Subject: Re: Tomorrow Townhall meeting Cathy, The place is on Park Central West catycorner from the new Theater an across the street from a parking garage On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM, CathyM catr...@juno.com wrote: Fred Where is the Rendezvous Coffee? Can we park our cars down there and leave them? What time will you be there? I don’t care what time I am in Springfield, all I know is I want to be at this townhall and it is much more fun waiting with people you have something in common with then by yourself. CathyM Catren's Shar Pei Catren's Leather Show Accessories KillThe Killing Fields Bills of the HSUS www.americanssupportinganimalownership.com From:missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com [mailto:missourilibertycoalit...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred B. Ellison Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:38 PM To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow Townhall meeting I am planning on going to RendezvousCoffee in the morning and walking to the Gillioz at 9:00am to get in line. Fred --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow Townhall meeting To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 1:38 PM Cathy, There will be people there from all kinds of different groups, sadly one of these groups has decided to align themselves with the political party they believe is going to oppose this instead of trying to stop it outright they want to garner compromise. I believe Fred and Janice will be in line and have registered, I'm leaving early in the morning so I can be back in time to at least stand out front with the rest of the Domestic Terrorist. On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:11 PM, CathyM catr...@juno.com wrote: I am planning on going to this. I am hoping to be in Springfield by 10:30 at the Gilloiz in line. I know that Jenny is going to meet me in line as she is taking time off work. Is anyone else going to be able to make it? Would you like to meet up somewhere? I did not make it to Fred's meeting so I don't know what you guys have planned out. Could you fill us in? I can bring my laptop if needed. CathyM Catren's Shar Pei Catren's Leather Show Accessories Kill The Killing Fields Bills of the HSUS www.americanssupportinganimalownership.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00 -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00 -- no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening
Fred: Might it be possible that: 1) the military is listening to what the public says, and appears to be taking a rational approach to their perceived problems and has decided to avoid making the same mistakes twice. 2) Congress and the White House are listening in a similar manner, and have decided to stonewall it - - All the loudmouth violent disrupters at our town hall meetings that disagree with us are Nazi fascists or Rush Limbaugh ditto-heads, and are dangerous people that should be locked up in our new National Guard internment camps. Hm? just speculating. Maybe it's a mixed blessing/danger that 'they' are listening to what the public is saying. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Young Conservatives ty...@googlegroups.com Cc: Campaign for Liberty-SGF springfield...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:41:11 PM Subject: Big Brother is Watching and Listening http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090810/D99VV4M80.html Air Force used Twitter to track NY flyover fallout Aug 10, 6:11 AM (ET) By RICHARD LARDNER (AP) This undated photo released by the Defense Department shows one of the president's official planes,... Full Image WASHINGTON (AP) - As the Pentagon warns of the security risks posed by social networking sites, newly released government documents show the military also uses these Internet tools to monitor and react to coverage of high-profile events. The Air Force tracked the instant messaging service Twitter, video carrier YouTube and various blogs to assess the huge public backlash to the Air Force One flyover of the Statue of Liberty this spring, according to the documents. And while the attempts at damage control failed - No positive spin is possible, one PowerPoint chart reads - the episode opens a window into the tactics for operating in a boundless digital news cycle. This new terrain has slippery slopes, though, for the military. Facebook, MySpace and other social media sites are very popular among service members, including those in Iraq and Afghanistan who want to keep in touch with friends and family. The sites are also valued by military organizations for recruiting or communicating with other federal agencies. But posting information on these interactive links makes it vulnerable to being lost or stolen by the enemy, according to Pentagon officials. On Thursday hackers shut down Twitter for several hours, while Facebook had intermittent access problems - an indication of the shortcomings of relying on these services. The Marine Corps' computer network blocks users from accessing social media sites, which service officials say expose information to adversaries and provide an easy conduit for information leakage. The Marines recently made its ban official. And that prohibition might extend to other parts of the military pending a top-level review ordered in late July by Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn. In a widely distributed memo, Lynn said the so-called Web 2.0 sites are important tools but more study is needed to understand their threats and benefits. Air Force officials are already aware of the potential benefits. According to the Air Force One documents released through the Freedom of Information Act, a unit called the Combat Information Cell at Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida monitored the public fallout from the April 27 flight and offered recommendations for dealing with the fast-breaking story. Formed two years ago, the cell is made up of as many as nine people who analyze piles of data culled from the Internet and other sources to determine whether the Air Force's message is being heard. The presidential plane took off for New York from Andrews Air Force in Maryland accompanied by two F-16 jet fighters. The purpose of the flight, which wasn't publicly announced, was to get new photos of the specially modified Boeing 747 with the statue in the background. The mission quickly became a public relations disaster as panicked New Yorkers, fearing another 9/11-style attack, emptied office buildings. In the aftermath, Louis Caldera, director of the White House military office that authorized the flight, was fired. The Combat Information Cell's first assessment of the event said Web site blog comments 'furious' at best. Local reporting of the flyover was very critical, highlighting scare factor, it added. A Twitter search revealed a rate of one tweet per minute about a pair of F-16s chasing a commercial airliner. A tweet is a text message of up to 140 characters delivered to the author's subscribers, who are known as followers. Media coverage over the next 24 hours will focus on local hysteria and lack of public notification, the cell predicted. Blogs will continue to be overwhelmingly negative. Damage control requires timely counter-information, but the
Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening
Fred: Possible wishy-washy answers: If all 'they' are doing is keeping track of the total response of what 'everybody' says on the web, 'they' are just observing the totals of a spontaneous public poll. If they start keeping track of things like Joe Doakes has made seditious remarks about topic X 15 times in the last month, Big Brother is indeed watching. But, and this is a big but: how much of Joe Doakes' privacy has been invaded or compromised by his shooting his mouth off in a PUBLIC forum. Is statement of an opinion (no matter how odious) a crime worthy of a warrant for arrest? That's not a completely black and white issue. Just remember the perfect example of a bad public statement by an individual in a crowd - - Fire! when there is no fire. Yes, I really don't like the idea that loopholes (or mis-interpretation of legislation) in current laws that could be indiscrimiantly used by government agencies to listening in on private phone lines - - without an independent judge's approval. Ehh, there are too many shades of gray in this multi-dimensional problem. Jim From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:48:06 PM Subject: Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening Question: Isn't this a violation of 4th Amendment protection against unlawful searches and seizures and a violation of privacy rights? Law enforcement should not be allowed to monitor communications without a warrant based on reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 2:37 PM Fred: Might it be possible that: 1) the military is listening to what the public says, and appears to be taking a rational approach to their perceived problems and has decided to avoid making the same mistakes twice. 2) Congress and the White House are listening in a similar manner, and have decided to stonewall it - - All the loudmouth violent disrupters at our town hall meetings that disagree with us are Nazi fascists or Rush Limbaugh ditto-heads, and are dangerous people that should be locked up in our new National Guard internment camps. Hm? just speculating. Maybe it's a mixed blessing/danger that 'they' are listening to what the public is saying. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Young Conservatives ty...@googlegroups.com Cc: Campaign for Liberty-SGF springfield...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:41:11 PM Subject: Big Brother is Watching and Listening http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090810/D99VV4M80.html Air Force used Twitter to track NY flyover fallout Aug 10, 6:11 AM (ET) By RICHARD LARDNER (AP) This undated photo released by the Defense Department shows one of the president's official planes,... Full Image WASHINGTON (AP) - As the Pentagon warns of the security risks posed by social networking sites, newly released government documents show the military also uses these Internet tools to monitor and react to coverage of high-profile events. The Air Force tracked the instant messaging service Twitter, video carrier YouTube and various blogs to assess the huge public backlash to the Air Force One flyover of the Statue of Liberty this spring, according to the documents. And while the attempts at damage control failed - No positive spin is possible, one PowerPoint chart reads - the episode opens a window into the tactics for operating in a boundless digital news cycle. This new terrain has slippery slopes, though, for the military. Facebook, MySpace and other social media sites are very popular among service members, including those in Iraq and Afghanistan who want to keep in touch with friends and family. The sites are also valued by military organizations for recruiting or communicating with other federal agencies. But posting information on these interactive links makes it vulnerable to being lost or stolen by the enemy, according to Pentagon officials. On Thursday hackers shut down Twitter for several hours, while Facebook had intermittent access problems - an indication of the shortcomings of relying on these services. The Marine Corps' computer network blocks users from accessing social media sites, which service officials say expose information to adversaries and provide an easy conduit for information leakage. The Marines recently made its ban official. And that prohibition might extend to other parts of the military pending a top-level review ordered in late July by Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn. In a widely distributed memo, Lynn said
Fw: Does the government really want to euthanize senior citizens? Is this real problem? Or, is it going to be something you didn't think about?
Dear everybody on the MoLiCo Google list: I have lived long enough that I feel I am being seriously threatened by the current legislation -- legislation that admits they will limit treatment to people on the basis of 'value' gained. I have lived in Canada, which has a medical system very much like what is being proposed by the government. The Canadian government has reached a financial limit as to how much medical treatment they can give back to their citizens from their taxes. This limit is high, because they tax the hell out of their citizens and residents to give them their free medical treatment. So, what happens when demand for service by all citizens is greater than what can be financially supported? 1) the medicare administrators 'decide' who needs medical service the most. Are these administrators necessarily doctors? No! 2) They set up priority lists for individuals as to when they CAN get the treatment they need. 3) Very often the priority is decided on the basis of age. The rationale has been explained in the following terms: A person that is 20 years old will get more benefit from a heart operation than a person 85. The end result is a gradual degradation of medical service as a citizen ages. Let me give you some personal examples. 1) While we were living in Canada, my wife (then aged about 48 or 49) developed a very bad hip/ball joint problem. It was agreed she needed a hip replacement right then. When did her place on the waiting list finally come up to the point of Let's do the hip replacement now? SIX years! Six years of pain and walking like a cripple. This is treatment? 2) My best friend in Canada (now 76) has had a kidney stone in his urinary tract for six or seven months. I had a stone a year ago while living in Springfield. I had it ultrasonically removed the day after it started up. This guy back in Canada is in intermittent agony whenever this stone shifts a little bit. His name on the treatment priority list hasn't come up yet. He doesn't know when he will get this stone removed. This is treatment? So, is the government proposed legislation really going to arbitrarily 'euthanize' anybody that is on Medicare? Probably not. Nobody is Canada has raised that point yet. Nonetheless, there are a lot of Canadian senior citizens living in unnecessary pain and unnecessary disability because their treatment is RATIONED. Maybe they are 'wishing' someone would euthanize them. I've been through it. I'm in good health for my age. I enjoy my life. I just know if I were living in Canada now, (or living in the US under the government proposed medical system), I'd be in trouble at the first sign of a new problem. Think about it. Is this new legislation proposed by Obama and Congress going to help you now? Will it help you as you grow older? Do you want your treatment to be decided by some government administrator? Should you believe EVERYTHING Congress and the Administration tell you about this new legislation? You have one vote from me for not believing the proposed legislation will be universally wonderful, and simultaneously, I believe there will be some very serious consequences for everybody if it is enacted into law. Jim Hornaday Springfield --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Ozarks Property Rights Congress
Yeah, rah and all that. Ray Cunio is Thelma's son. He turned out good, long before I ever married Thelma. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Young Conservatives ty...@googlegroups.com Cc: Campaign for Liberty-SGF springfield...@yahoogroups.com; Darin K. Chappell dkchapp...@aol.com; Vincent D. Jericho v...@ksgf.com Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:37:29 PM Subject: Fw: Ozarks Property Rights Congress --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Bob Parker b...@bakerealty.com wrote: Ozarks Property Rights Congress Let’s All Get Together Posted: 25 Jul 2009 04:15 PM PDT 9th Conference on Private Property Rights Saturday - August 1 9:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. Cinema II Theatre, S. Highway 181, Cabool, Missouri Sponsored by Ozarks Property Rights Congress The theme for this year’s Conference is How Local Citizens Can Deal With Intrusive Governmental Agencies Non-Governmental Organizations Speakers: State Senator Chuck Purgason will give his inspirational perspective on protecting ourselves from agencies. Dr. Max Thornsberry, President of R-CALF USAwill talk about the National Animal Identification System and the USDA. Ray Cunio, Citizens for Private Property Rights,will discuss The Clean Water Restoration Act, its connection with Missouri DNR’s Stream Re-Classification and how these tie in with Agenda 21. A representative from Missouri DNR has been invited to speak. Bob Parkerwill be speaking on EPA and DNR plans for Missouri watersheds. Doreen Hanneswill bring us up to speed on the regulation of normal gardening and home-grown food practices. International treaties are effecting proposed legislation to control our gardens. The afternoon schedule will culminate with a panel discussion/question and answer session. For the 6th year, The REAL Conservationist Award will be given. Previous recipients are: (2003)Sarah Steelman, (2004)The Texas County Commissioners: Joe Whetstine, Don Shellhammer, Linda Garrett, (2005)Wanda Benton, (2006) Ray Cunio and Derry Brownfield, (2007)Chuck Purgason and Russell Wood, (2008)Doreen Hannes, and Mary Rivera. DVDs of the USDA/NAIS Listening Session, June 9, 2009 in Jefferson City will be available for purchase. We will also have a videographer there to video the Conference with DVDs available about after the Conference. Admission is free, but donations are welcome! Complimentary coffee doughnuts at about 8:30 a.m. A catered lunch is available on grounds. The menu includes pulled pork, or chicken, baked beans, coleslaw, potato salad, cobbler, ice tea all for $6.50. Or you can seek lunch on your own at area restaurants. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition
Fred: Is this the new consensus of the MoLiCo organization/management for cooperation? Right now I have little or no problem with consolidation of civic effort - - - (outside of not knowing some of the listed people personally.) I am going to be 'gone out of town' for two weeks starting Sunday. I will be taking my laptop, and will be in email contact for reading what you all have to say, and can respond (maybe slowly).. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: Travis Maddox travismad...@constitutionpartymo.org Cc: Travis Maddox twayn...@hotmail.com; ACMN a...@yahoogroups.com; Campaign for Liberty - Springfield MO ronpaul...@meetup.com; Wendell Kerr wker...@yahoo.com; MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:41:17 PM Subject: Fw: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition Travis, We need more co-operation between the many groups. (This brings to mind the analogy of the single stick versus the bundle of sticks.) If we do not, they are going to pick us off one at a time. Fred In the beginning, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot. - Mark Twain --- On Thu, 4/23/09, Nicolas Lomas nlom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Nicolas Lomas nlom...@yahoo.com Subject: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition To: a...@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:43 PM Greetings to all! Here is The Plan that we have come up with. It's fairly simple and I think all groups will understand the principle behind this. The hard part is going to be getting everyone to consolidate replicated efforts. I think it can get done if groups agree to concentrate doing just one thing. Forming the Think Tank of this organization will require a little bit more doing and organizing. Let me know what you think. Many are at a loss as to how to restore our nation back to its constitutional republican form of government. We at the Constitution party have a plan. It's simple and it can work if everyone gets on board and sets aside their prides and egos. Here is the plan: 1. Get all third party leaders / patriot group leaders / any other group’s leaders to network through the Constitution Party meeting board. It is a link to a bulletin board where all third parties and all other patriot groups can post their meetings. 2. The Constitution Party will host meetings with all third party group leaders and patriot group leaders. They will discuss what all groups are doing. The groups that are duplicating effort will be asked to consolidate efforts and each group can concentrate on a particular area. This will increase numbers of groups working on projects. We will also be able support other groups working on projects. This will be the think tank of all the groups. 3. All groups will be asked to run political candidates. These candidates will be posted on the Constitution party meeting site. This way, whoever is running for office will get that much more support from all groups. They will also be able to help get all these candidates elected. They can help gather signatures, pass out flyers, put up yard signs, etc... If you have a better idea, let me know. Post it so we can all try to unite and work together. Any idea/plan is better than just sitting around and talking about what we can do. Let’s just do it! I know that we don't all agree on all issues, but one thing I do know is that we all need to restore our Constitution! Let me know what you think of this idea! If it stinks - let me know. It won't hurt my feelings one bit. Find your local Constitution Party leader and let them know of this idea. www.constitutionpar ty.com In New Mexico: www.cpnm.us P.S. Pass this information on to all other groups that you might know of. I don't have a list of all of them, and there are a lot of them. I hope that we can unite for the common good of all Americans. For God and our Republic! Nicolas Lomas 505-865-5054 505-975-0607 nlom...@yahoo. com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Members MARKETPLACE I'm happy I lost my Job. Now I make $12,000/mo online! See how I do it: WealthResource.org. Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity * 2 New MembersVisit Your Group Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Yahoo! Groups Auto Enthusiast Zone Passionate about cars? Check out the Auto Enthusiast Zone. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Community just for Moms Join the discussion . __,_._,___
Re: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition
Fred: OK. Keep me posted as to who said what in the course of consideration and discussion. Jim H. From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:36:02 PM Subject: Re: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition This was sent out for consideration and discussion. Fred In the beginning, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot. - Mark Twain --- On Thu, 4/23/09, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 4:27 PM Fred: Is this the new consensus of the MoLiCo organization/management for cooperation? Right now I have little or no problem with consolidation of civic effort - - - (outside of not knowing some of the listed people personally.) I am going to be 'gone out of town' for two weeks starting Sunday. I will be taking my laptop, and will be in email contact for reading what you all have to say, and can respond (maybe slowly).. Jim Hornaday From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com To: Travis Maddox travismad...@constitutionpartymo.org Cc: Travis Maddox twayn...@hotmail.com; ACMN a...@yahoogroups.com; Campaign for Liberty - Springfield MO ronpaul...@meetup.com; Wendell Kerr wker...@yahoo.com; MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:41:17 PM Subject: Fw: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition Travis, We need more co-operation between the many groups. (This brings to mind the analogy of the single stick versus the bundle of sticks.) If we do not, they are going to pick us off one at a time. Fred In the beginning, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot. - Mark Twain --- On Thu, 4/23/09, Nicolas Lomas nlom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Nicolas Lomas nlom...@yahoo.com Subject: [ACMN] Patriot Coalition To: a...@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:43 PM Greetings to all! Here is The Plan that we have come up with. It's fairly simple and I think all groups will understand the principle behind this. The hard part is going to be getting everyone to consolidate replicated efforts. I think it can get done if groups agree to concentrate doing just one thing. Forming the Think Tank of this organization will require a little bit more doing and organizing. Let me know what you think. Many are at a loss as to how to restore our nation back to its constitutional republican form of government. We at the Constitution party have a plan. It's simple and it can work if everyone gets on board and sets aside their prides and egos. Here is the plan: 1. Get all third party leaders / patriot group leaders / any other group’s leaders to network through the Constitution Party meeting board. It is a link to a bulletin board where all third parties and all other patriot groups can post their meetings. 2. The Constitution Party will host meetings with all third party group leaders and patriot group leaders. They will discuss what all groups are doing. The groups that are duplicating effort will be asked to consolidate efforts and each group can concentrate on a particular area. This will increase numbers of groups working on projects. We will also be able support other groups working on projects. This will be the think tank of all the groups. 3. All groups will be asked to run political candidates. These candidates will be posted on the Constitution party meeting site. This way, whoever is running for office will get that much more support from all groups. They will also be able to help get all these candidates elected. They can help gather signatures, pass out flyers, put up yard signs, etc... If you have a better idea, let me know. Post it so we can all try to unite and work together. Any idea/plan is better than just sitting around and talking about what we can do. Let’s just do it! I know that we don't all agree on all issues, but one thing I do know is that we all need to restore our Constitution! Let me know what you think of this idea! If it stinks - let me know. It won't hurt my feelings one bit. Find your local Constitution Party leader and let them know of this idea. www.constitutionpar ty.com In New Mexico: www.cpnm.us P.S. Pass this information on to all other groups that you might know of. I don't have a list of all of them, and there are a lot of them. I hope that we can unite for the common good of all Americans. For God and our Republic! Nicolas Lomas 505-865-5054 505-975-0607 nlom...@yahoo. com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post
Re: Fwd: New Entry at Framing the Questions
Tom: Stephens has more than a clue. He knows what current council has done. He wants to continue their spending spending spending habit. He knows enough to throw out octopus ink every chance he can to obscure the real picture. Keep hitting! Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Springfield Campaign For Liberty ronpaul...@meetup.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:37:28 PM Subject: Fwd: New Entry at Framing the Questions This just shows the lack of understanding of what money is ACTUALLY spent on in the city and how much these items actually cost. If my opponent were to actually be involved in the political scene he wouldn't have to ask questions which have no basis or meaning. Mr Stephens the CIP pays for just 10% of the improvements list in the CIP propsals every three years. You see Mr Stephens while the tax generates 10 million annually the city allocates approximately 140 million if not more in this same time frame on all these various projects, which by the way is how as a city we ended up with over 400 million dollars in bonded indebtiness. To think this guy thinks he is qualified to represent you on city council is a joke. He hasn't a clue. -- Forwarded message -- From: Framing the Questions nore...@onlinequickblog.com Date: Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:22 PM Subject: New Entry at Framing the Questions To: tom t.ma...@gmail.com Framing the Questions published a new entry entitled Tomfoolery on 3/12/2009 4:22:09 PM, written by R Stephens. Tomfoolery Yesterday hit an interesting low in meaningful political messages. The scene was the Candidate Forum hosted by the North Springfield Betterment Association, an excellent and dedicated organization that has been working for the development and support of commercial business in the north part of Springfield for a lot of years. In addition, they support a program that encourages elementary students in at-risk school to increase and maintain their attendance. Each candidate was allowed three minutes to introduce himself and tell a little about his candidacy and his positions on the issue. My opponent began by claiming to be the “anti-establishment” candidate. He meant this as a joke because I had referred to the issue of local media referring to certain candidates as “establishment” candidates, as if that were a horrible disease. Unfortunately, if any group in Springfield is part of the business establishment, it’s the NSBA. There were bankers in attendance; there were members of the local Chamber there; there were small business owners; there were owners of fairly sizable businesses; there were religious people there. These are simply establishment people. After the humor, he turned to his background and told everyone that he lived in the north part of Springfield, where some of the neighborhoods don’t have sidewalks and “the kids have to walk in the street or in the ditch” on their way to school. He ignored the fact, of course, that even John Q. Hammons’ neighborhood as well as other older residential areas don’t have sidewalks. He then proceeded to state that he supported the SOS plan to sunset the Capital Improvement Program tax and ask that voters re-direct that tax to the Police and Firefighters Pension Plan. Now, maybe he misspoke. Maybe he just doesn’t understand. But where in the name of civil engineering does he think that retro-fitted sidewalks in the City come from if not from capital improvements programs? Sidewalks ARE a capital improvement. They don’t just appear. They have to be built and they have to be paid for--design, materials, and labor. As a candidate, you can't have it both ways: you can't advocate the building of sidewalks and, at the same time, advocate eliminating capital improvement projects. To think that these two are compatible is simply, well, tomfoolery. ##30## Permalink: framingthequestion.us/2009/03/12/tomfoolery.aspx * Comment on this entry. * Subscribe to future comments on this entry. * Unsubscribe from this blog This is an automated message. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com
Re: SOS meeting coverage
Man O Man, I am amazed at some people's logic where they could come up with the idea that the S.O.S. organization was created by the 'good ol' boys'. Just look at current council's reactions to the S.O.S. proposals, and that ought to be sufficient to show that S.O.S. is totally ANTI-good ol' boy. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com; Springfield Campaign For Liberty ronpaul...@meetup.com Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:13:40 PM Subject: SOS meeting coverage http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090310/NEWS01/903100351/1001/RSS01 GREAT comments from at least three thinking individuals. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop
Glenn: You were either plain lucky (the damn camera wasn't working), or you were the beneficiary of the city's ill-defined grace period following installation for NOT getting a computer camera ticket, or MAYBE the camera + computer has enough smarts to recognize when a car gets stuck in the intersection because the line ahead is jammed. I wouldn't count on the last possibility. The camera monitoring the north bound lane for Kansas Expressway at Kearney was installed 1-23-09, and was activated on 2-23-09. You were prime meat. Jim Hornaday From: Glenn Gohr archives_...@hotmail.com To: Missouri Liberty Coalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:12:01 PM Subject: RE: Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop That is a super great idea. I got stuck in the middle of the intersection at Kearney and Kansas yesterday. I couldn't exit the intersection right away because the car in front of me was not out of the way. The reason for this is that there was a long line of cars single file (other lane was closed) between Kearney and I-44. They are doing road construction where Kansas meets with I-44. It scared me that I might get caught by the camera (I don't know if it is issuing tickets or not yet). Fortunately I got out of the intersection before the red light came on (but I didn't enter when it was red or even yellow). Yes, do get the dates the cameras were installed. There is one set of dates--date camera installed, and another date when the camera actually started being used to issue tickets. --Glenn Windows Live™: Life without walls. Check it out. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Fw: Billions: cool factoids -- Like, What's billion of anything?
Hey folks: Our own little Springfield City Council and administrators, if left to themselves (while listening to the Vision 20:20 spendaholics), would have one hand on the checkbook and the other hand clutching the signature stamp, intending to (according to the published 5 year Capital Improvement Project document) to spend slightly over: $1,000,000,000 Yeah, that's a BILLION! It is not necessary to go to as far as Jefferson City to find BILLIONS of tax dollars being spent by a governmental agency. We got it right here in the Queen City. Now, let's be nice to our local administrators. They told all of us it was just going to be $158 Million total. Part of that $1B total spending is covered by a bunch of State of MO grants and Federal grants. Can you hear the cry? That's FREE money! (It is until we get the tax bill from the state and/or the Federal governments in the form of higher income taxes) Another big part of that City of Springfield billion dollars is intended to be spent from sources that haven't even been identified. That small detail doesn't bother council. Sometime in the next five years, our fair city's administrators (if not blocked) will cover that temporary hindrance by either: 1) finding some sucker organization to donate the missing big bucks, 2) pay for the project by issuance of city bonds, or 3) enacting new sales taxes, use taxes, enhancement of fees, etc. We may have the temporary pleasure of watching some of our freespending council members leaving office next month. Let's not get complacent and assume things are going to automatically be better. There are 'Other' council candidates that could be just as bad for being free-spending as the outgoing council members. Jim Hornaday --- On Fri, 3/6/09, ltrushton ltrushton ltrush...@arczip.com wrote: From: ltrushton ltrushton ltrush...@arczip.com Subject: Billions: cool factoids To: Kenny ken...@acmefab.com Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 12:34 PM This is actually true and not funny. The next time you hear a politician use the word 'billion' in a casual manner, think about whether you want the 'politicians' spending YOUR tax money. A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but one advertising agency did a good job of putting that figure into some perspective in one of it's releases. A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959. B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive. C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age. D. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet. E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it. While this thought is still fresh in our brains... let's take a look at New Orleans... It's amazing what you can learn with some simple division. Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D) is presently asking Congress for 250 BILLION DOLLARS to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number... what does it mean? A. Well... if you are one of the 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man, woman, and child) you each get $516,528. B. Or... if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans ,your home gets$1,329,787. C. Or... if you are a family of four... your family gets $2,066,012. Washington, D. C. HELLO! Are all your calculators broken?? Building Permit Tax CDL License Tax Cigarette Tax Corporate Income Tax Dog License Tax Federal Income Tax (Fed) Federal Unemployment Tax(FUTA) Fishing License Tax Food License Tax Fuel Permit Tax Gasoline Tax Hunting License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax) IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Tax Marriage License Tax Medicare Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service charge taxes Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax (Truckers) Sales Taxes Recreational Vehicle Tax School Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Tax Vehicle License Registration Tax Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers Compensation Tax (And to think, we left British Rule to avoid so many taxes) STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago... and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt... We had the largest middle class in the world... and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. What happened? Can you spell 'politicians!! Poli - meaning many. Tics - blood sucking parasites And I
Re: Fw: Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop
Fred: Please tell me the specific dates each red light camera was installed and became operational. I offered this study once before, and I am offering again -- - - - - tell me those dates, and I will give you an unbiased set of accident statistics for each intersection for total accidents and injury accidents - - - before installation and after camera installation. The city's claiming they have reduced accidents with the cameras without giving anyone the numbers is an easy opportunity for lying. Maybe the best way for us to get rid of these cameras is to show everybody in the city the administration wasn't telling the truth, or they exaggerated a wee bit. Jim Hornaday --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com Subject: Fw: Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 11:21 AM --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Charity Angel darlingdavisfam...@gmail.com wrote: From: Charity Angel darlingdavisfam...@gmail.com Subject: Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop To: Charity Davis darlingdavisfam...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 11:02 AM Sent from Glenn: From today's Springfield News-Leader. Be sure to write comments after the article. And contact anyone you think might be able to help stop this process. Bill: Red-light cameras same as officer stop http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090304/NEWS06/903040465 Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out. -- Please Note: If you hit REPLY, your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list (ronpaul...@meetup.com) This message was sent by Glenn Gohr (archives_...@hotmail.com) from Campaign for Liberty Group of Springfield. To learn more about Glenn Gohr, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: supp...@meetup.com 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA -- My Blog http://www.angelauthor.blogspot.com Gal. 5: 1, 13 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. • • • 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What might be a better priority CIP than Wayfinder Signs?
Matthew: I think you and I (and most of the people communicating on this blog) must have a completely different perception of the council's actions over the past few years. Maybe you were studying at MSU, and you weren't as involved as you are now or understand what's happened since 2000. We have watched Council spend untold millions on projects that were voter approved when times were good. On the surface, it looked like the city was always balancing its income and expenditures. During these same 'good' times, the council purposely squeezed the police and fire departments' budgets and did NOT pay any of their yearly pension fund obligations for 4 years. At the same time, the city's long term debt obligation went from $200 million in 2001 to $414 million last year. This in addition to the $197 million deficit in the pension fund. This increase in long term debt meant the city was NOT paying cash for all the wonderful projects they were doing. They were doing projects with bond money. That outstanding debt is way BIGGER than any one year's income. It's something the city can't ever pay down unless they stop spending money like it's free for the using. Now that the times are rough, the council and administration's attitude for operation is We need another tax increase to cover our current spending habits. If you don't recognize this set of facts, you are just barking up the wrong tree. The city hasn't got the message that we the citizens are not going to give them any more tax money to bail them out, and that it's time to stop spending any money on any project (prior approved or not) that doesn't meet citizens' core service needs. The city administration would love the citizens to start fussing amongst themselves as to What's a better project to support compared to the Wayfinder Sign System? They won't stop trying to spend money they don't have until they see a unified citizen's resistance. Jim Hornaday --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com wrote: From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com Subject: Re: What might be a better priority CIP than Wayfinder Signs? To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 12:13 PM Why did this end up on a new thread?? I wanted to see the original argument strengthened because the original post was rather weak. A reply to the original discussion would have made much more sense. I'm not trying to take sides here, but I would like to show why the council members haven't been influenced by these arguments. Even this reply is hardly convincing. Could any of these projects listed be completed for the same price as these wayfinding signs? Are any of these projects going to bring more business to town? How important wayfinding signs are in general is something worth debating, but tough economic times make them more important rather than less. This argument that the timing is wrong is completely misguided. If you don't want to try to pull people in when times are tight, why would you bother when things are already going well. If we're going to do this, now would be the best time. Like I said though, whether or not we want to do this is worth debating. On Feb 24, 2:07 pm, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com What on the list of capital improvements should be moved ahead of the Wayfinding signs in priority? You talked about prioritizing, but didn't name any projects that should be a higher priority. Unless there is something this money could be used for that is a higher priority, why wouldn't we move ahead with the signs? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Good question Mathew. For starters on selecting another 'better' priority for spending taxpayers' capital money, how about: 1) any road project that would make it easier for people to drive around town? We can pick from 28 council approved CIP projects. 2) any storm sewer project that would keep a neighborhood or street from flooding the next time we have a 3 inch rain? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 3) any sanitary sewer system improvement that would keep the nasty stuff flowing down hill and being treated properly before release, so that it meets DNR and the EPA regulations? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 4) any side walk improvement program that would allow school kids to stay OUT of streets as they are walking to and from school. # council approved projects = 4. Pick one. 5) any capital improvement project that might help the Springfield Police Department run more efficiently ? Ooops! There isn't a single one. Police activities don't seem to rate too high on Council's and Administration's priority list
Re: Debate on the value and/or priority of installing Wayfinder Signs in Springfield
state or local tax law provisions. -Original Message- From: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com [mailto:missourilibertycoalit...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Matthew Block Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:05 PM To: missourilibertycoalition Subject: Re: Debate on the value and/or priority of installing Wayfinder Signs in Springfield My point is that saying Don't do this! is not nearly as convincing as saying Do this instead. If you want to convince council that their priorities are wrong, you have to provide alternatives. Otherwise they'll just look at you like a whiner (whether or not your protest is justified). The naming of more important CIP projects IS NOT USELESS. The CIP money exists and has been collected and should be applied to something; otherwise we've been taxed for nothing. If you intend to convince council (or anyone) to not spend the money on signs, you need to be able to point at something else to spend it on. I completely understand and am also frustrated by the irresponsible pension decisions, but CIP money cannot be mingled with anything else. So the pension troubles have nothing to do with this issue. On Feb 26, 12:52 pm, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Matthew: I think you have little understanding of the frustration OTHER citizens feel when they see the City run the police/fireman's pension into the ground, and then watch the same council people authorize starting a $683,000 capital improvement project that does NOTHING for addressing the city's core needs. I don't think anyone has violent objections to installing these signs. It's just that the administration and council have warped priorities, and spending money now when they don't have it is something they just have to do. Do you have any idea as to how many Council approved projects are intended to be funded by sale of bonds? That's the same as you and I putting a big purchase on a credit card. Hey, there are 70 street, sanitary sewer, and stormwater projects in the Council approved 2009-2014 CIP listing. If you are so all fired eager to name a better priority project out of those projects compared to the Wayfinder Signs, do it! I don't want to imagine what specific project you think might be more important. The naming of or debate over what might be a 'better' CIP project is kind of useless. We just had a demonstration of the city's thinking Monday night that shows us Council's priorities - - and we think their priorities stink! The city hasn't learned the meaning of the word NO! yet. They think they can continue spending spending spending. The council members that voted FOR the Wayfinding Signs will ultimately regret their votes. Jim Hornaday Re: What might be a better priority CIP than Wayfinder Signs? Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:13 PM From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Why did this end up on a new thread?? I wanted to see the original argument strengthened because the original post was rather weak. A reply to the original discussion would have made much more sense. I'm not trying to take sides here, but I would like to show why the council members haven't been influenced by these arguments. Even this reply is hardly convincing. Could any of these projects listed be completed for the same price as these wayfinding signs? Are any of these projects going to bring more business to town? How important wayfinding signs are in general is something worth debating, but tough economic times make them more important rather than less. This argument that the timing is wrong is completely misguided. If you don't want to try to pull people in when times are tight, why would you bother when things are already going well. If we're going to do this, now would be the best time. Like I said though, whether or not we want to do this is worth debating. On Feb 24, 2:07 pm, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com What on the list of capital improvements should be moved ahead of the Wayfinding signs in priority? You talked about prioritizing, but didn't name any projects that should be a higher priority. Unless there is something this money could be used for that is a higher priority, why wouldn't we move ahead with the signs? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Good question Mathew. For starters on selecting another 'better' priority for spending taxpayers' capital money, how about: 1) any road project that would make
Debate on the value and/or priority of installing Wayfinder Signs in Springfield
Matthew: I think you have little understanding of the frustration OTHER citizens feel when they see the City run the police/fireman's pension into the ground, and then watch the same council people authorize starting a $683,000 capital improvement project that does NOTHING for addressing the city's core needs. I don't think anyone has violent objections to installing these signs. It's just that the administration and council have warped priorities, and spending money now when they don't have it is something they just have to do. Do you have any idea as to how many Council approved projects are intended to be funded by sale of bonds? That's the same as you and I putting a big purchase on a credit card. Hey, there are 70 street, sanitary sewer, and stormwater projects in the Council approved 2009-2014 CIP listing. If you are so all fired eager to name a better priority project out of those projects compared to the Wayfinder Signs, do it! I don't want to imagine what specific project you think might be more important. The naming of or debate over what might be a 'better' CIP project is kind of useless. We just had a demonstration of the city's thinking Monday night that shows us Council's priorities - - and we think their priorities stink! The city hasn't learned the meaning of the word NO! yet. They think they can continue spending spending spending. The council members that voted FOR the Wayfinding Signs will ultimately regret their votes. Jim Hornaday Re: What might be a better priority CIP than Wayfinder Signs? Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:13 PM From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Why did this end up on a new thread?? I wanted to see the original argument strengthened because the original post was rather weak. A reply to the original discussion would have made much more sense. I'm not trying to take sides here, but I would like to show why the council members haven't been influenced by these arguments. Even this reply is hardly convincing. Could any of these projects listed be completed for the same price as these wayfinding signs? Are any of these projects going to bring more business to town? How important wayfinding signs are in general is something worth debating, but tough economic times make them more important rather than less. This argument that the timing is wrong is completely misguided. If you don't want to try to pull people in when times are tight, why would you bother when things are already going well. If we're going to do this, now would be the best time. Like I said though, whether or not we want to do this is worth debating. On Feb 24, 2:07 pm, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com What on the list of capital improvements should be moved ahead of the Wayfinding signs in priority? You talked about prioritizing, but didn't name any projects that should be a higher priority. Unless there is something this money could be used for that is a higher priority, why wouldn't we move ahead with the signs? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Good question Mathew. For starters on selecting another 'better' priority for spending taxpayers' capital money, how about: 1) any road project that would make it easier for people to drive around town? We can pick from 28 council approved CIP projects. 2) any storm sewer project that would keep a neighborhood or street from flooding the next time we have a 3 inch rain? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 3) any sanitary sewer system improvement that would keep the nasty stuff flowing down hill and being treated properly before release, so that it meets DNR and the EPA regulations? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 4) any side walk improvement program that would allow school kids to stay OUT of streets as they are walking to and from school. # council approved projects = 4. Pick one. 5) any capital improvement project that might help the Springfield Police Department run more efficiently ? Ooops! There isn't a single one. Police activities don't seem to rate too high on Council's and Administration's priority list. Excuse me, but Wayfinder Signs in the city don't rate too high in my personal opinion book, compared to the priority Springfield obviously puts on installing these signs. If you
What might be a better priority CIP than Wayfinder Signs?
From: Matthew Block matthewpbl...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com What on the list of capital improvements should be moved ahead of the Wayfinding signs in priority? You talked about prioritizing, but didn't name any projects that should be a higher priority. Unless there is something this money could be used for that is a higher priority, why wouldn't we move ahead with the signs? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Good question Mathew. For starters on selecting another 'better' priority for spending taxpayers' capital money, how about: 1) any road project that would make it easier for people to drive around town? We can pick from 28 council approved CIP projects. 2) any storm sewer project that would keep a neighborhood or street from flooding the next time we have a 3 inch rain? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 3) any sanitary sewer system improvement that would keep the nasty stuff flowing down hill and being treated properly before release, so that it meets DNR and the EPA regulations? # council approved CIP projects = 23. Pick one. 4) any side walk improvement program that would allow school kids to stay OUT of streets as they are walking to and from school. # council approved projects = 4. Pick one. 5) any capital improvement project that might help the Springfield Police Department run more efficiently ? Ooops! There isn't a single one. Police activities don't seem to rate too high on Council's and Administration's priority list. Excuse me, but Wayfinder Signs in the city don't rate too high in my personal opinion book, compared to the priority Springfield obviously puts on installing these signs. If you have any idea the projects the City wants to spend our tax money on, it's very easy to conclude their spending priorities are NOT our priorities. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
editorial submitted to the SGF N-L for publication
People: Tonight's council meeting riled me up, and I just had to write this 'editorial' for hopeful paper publication. It may be stuck in (and die) their blog section. Anyway, I wanted this group to know what I did write. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- inline: editorial 2-23-09.doc
Re: Illegal Immigrants Sue Arizona Property Owner
I was called for Greene County jury duty last week. Nothing came of it; they didn't need me. If I were an Arizona resident, I'd be pounding on the circuit court clerk's office door, yelling I'm volunteering for jury duty. Jim Hornaday --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Fred B. Ellison fbelli...@yahoo.com Subject: Illegal Immigrants Sue Arizona Property Owner To: MLC Google Group missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 7:28 AM Monday, February 9, 2009 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher An Arizona man who has waged a 10-year campaign to stop a flood of illegal immigrants from crossing his property is being sued by 16 Mexican nationals who accuse him of conspiring to violate their civil rights when he stopped them at gunpoint on his ranch on the U.S.-Mexico border. Roger Barnett, 64, began rounding up illegal immigrants in 1998 and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol, he said, after they destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his home. His Cross Rail Ranch near Douglas, Ariz., is known by federal and county law enforcement authorities as the avenue of choice for immigrants seeking to enter the United States illegally. Trial continues Monday in the federal lawsuit, which seeks $32 million in actual and punitive damages for civil rights violations, the infliction of emotional distress and other crimes. Also named are Mr. Barnett's wife, Barbara, his brother, Donald, and Larry Dever, sheriff in Cochise County, Ariz., where the Barnetts live. The civil trial is expected to continue until Friday. The lawsuit is based on a March 7, 2004, incident in a dry wash on the 22,000-acre ranch, when he approached a group of illegal immigrants while carrying a gun and accompanied by a large dog. Attorneys for the immigrants - five women and 11 men who were trying to cross illegally into the United States - have accused Mr. Barnett of holding the group captive at gunpoint, threatening to turn his dog loose on them and saying he would shoot anyone who tried to escape. The immigrants are represented at trial by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), which also charged that Sheriff Dever did nothing to prevent Mr. Barnett from holding their clients at gunpoint, yelling obscenities at them and kicking one of the women. In the lawsuit, MALDEF said Mr. Barnett approached the group as the immigrants moved through his property, and that he was carrying a pistol and threatening them in English and Spanish. At one point, it said, Mr. Barnett's dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, My dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks. The lawsuit said he then called his wife and two Border Patrol agents arrived at the site. It also said Mr. Barnett acknowledged that he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998. In March, U.S. District Judge John Roll rejected a motion by Mr. Barnett to have the charges dropped, ruling there was sufficient evidence to allow the matter to be presented to a jury. Mr. Barnett's attorney, David Hardy, had argued that illegal immigrants did not have the same rights as U.S. citizens. Mr. Barnett told The Washington Times in a 2002 interview that he began rounding up illegal immigrants after they started to vandalize his property, northeast of Douglas along Arizona Highway 80. He said the immigrants tore up water pumps, killed calves, destroyed fences and gates, stole trucks and broke into his home. Some of his cattle died from ingesting the plastic bottles left behind by the immigrants, he said, adding that he installed a faucet on an 8,000-gallon water tank so the immigrants would stop damaging the tank to get water. Mr. Barnett said some of the ranch´s established immigrant trails were littered with trash 10 inches deep, including human waste, used toilet paper, soiled diapers, cigarette packs, clothes, backpacks, empty 1-gallon water bottles, chewing-gum wrappers and aluminum foil - which supposedly is used to pack the drugs the immigrant smugglers give their clients to keep them running. He said he carried a pistol during his searches for the immigrants and had a rifle in his truck for protection against immigrant and drug smugglers, who often are armed. A former Cochise County sheriff´s deputy who later was successful in the towing and propane business, Mr. Barnett spent $30,000 on electronic sensors, which he has hidden along established trails on his ranch. He searches the ranch for illegal immigrants in a pickup truck, dressed in a green shirt and camouflage hat, with his handgun and rifle, high-powered binoculars and a walkie-talkie. His sprawling ranch became an illegal-immigration highway when the Border Patrol diverted its attention to several border towns in an effort to take control of the established ports of entry. That effort moved the
Time to VOTE! Time to make a positive change in the way Springfield is run!
People: We have bitched and moaned a long time about the poor situation we are in. Inadequate police protection, a council and administration that love to frivolously spend our money for parks and money-losing developments. Things won't change as long as the people running Springfield think we are willing to pay for any damn thing they want. They have a mind-set for continuing their spend-thrift habits. This is our chance to tell them a 1% sales tax is the wrong solution to our police/fire pension deficit, and our opportunity to get some better people on the council. It won't happen unless we get out today and VOTE! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Fwd: Fw: Re: My questions for those of you wanting my vote
Mr. Stephens' long association with the Park Board says lots about his priorities as to what he considers important for running Springfield. If I may paraphrase them, they would sound something like We need more Greenways for people to run cycle, and they can all look at the beautiful fountain we're going to build in the filled-in quarry at the end of Jordan Park. Everyone will be so happy, we won't need a police department. So, I'm putting words in his mouth. I bet he believes them. cynic - Jim Hornaday --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re: My questions for those of you wanting my vote To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com, Springfield Campaign For Liberty ronpaul...@meetup.com Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 3:03 PM This was forwarded to me by a resident who asked all the council candidates the same questions(yes I answered them as well) and this is the one that he found rather interesting, so much so that he believes that Mr. Stephens might suffer from paranoia episodes. The questions were quite general in nature and are listed below the e-mail, however upon reading this quoted part is what makes me wonder if this person can truly represent everyone in this town. If you will let me know how you will be using these answers and how you plan to distribute them, then we will probably have a starting point. The man is running for a general seat and being asked questions by a Springfield resident, homeowner and business owner(even though the business is just outside Springfield)and yet he wants to know how his replies are going to be used and distributed. I ask you all can we really trust any individual which does not show trust in a voter --- On Tue, 12/23/08, Robert Stephens stephens4coun...@gmail.com wrote: From: Robert Stephens Subject: Re: My questions for those of you wanting my vote To: Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 4:26 AM Brian-- Thanks for your email and your concerns about the City of Springfield. I think you'll find most of the answers to your questions in general terms on my website under Positions. The website is www.stephensforcouncil.com I generally don't answer an entire shopping list of questions from folks who start out, I'm currently very dissatisfied with the way . . . . With that kind of start, there's rarely any room for a rational discussion of the issues. If you will let me know how you will be using these answers and how you plan to distribute them, then we will probably have a starting point. You and I share an interest in improving City government and in bringing new and better jobs to Springfield. Thanks very much for your inquiry. (I used to work with and bowl with a man named Junior Rushing. Any relation?) Bob Stephens On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Brian Rushing wrote: Dear sir or ma'am, I am currently very dissatisfied with the way the city has been run and I would like some information about you and your views on a few issues. Thank you for your time and your responses. I am asking these very same questions to everyone running for City Council/Mayor. 1) I have a pitbull that's very loveable. Do you or will you support a repeal of the pitbull ordinance as there is already a vicious dog ordinance that I feel does the job but is not enforced. 2) I think CU is out of control. What will you do to reign them in? Will you support allowing those who get their power from CU but live outside of the city limits vote on issues that deal with the utility? It's my understanding that we will need to change the city charter to do so. How do you plan to accomplish this? 3) The city manager is being paid a huge sum of money while the city is hemoraging money. Do you think his pay is justified? I know we can't reduce his pay but your thoughts are important if I'm to vote for you. 4) I own a business outside of the city limits, but my friends who operate business' inside the city feel the city is very unfriendly to business'. Do you agree, if so how will you change that? 5) What do you plan to do to bring business' that have good wages to our city? What kind of business' do you think will help grow our economy? 6) Do you support closing the square at 11p.m. If so, why? 7) How long have you been involved in local governmental issues ? 8) How many city council meetings have you been to in the past year ? 9) During the past year name one city ordinance you would change and why ? 10) If given the opportunity, which part of the city charter would you change and why? 11) What would you consider to be city councils best achievement over the last year and what was their biggest mistake? Please be as detailed as possible. 12) What programs will you cut to balance our budget and fix the pension problem? Brian Rushing A Touch of Sun Tanning Hair Salon 3761 N. Glenstone Springfield, MO 65803 833-6999
Proposed 'letter-to-the-editor' about the City's spending habits
Dear All: Today's N-L articles about Mr. Burris' concerns about the City's bond rating and his projections of the positions they would cut from city employment by a NO vote come Tuesday inspired this appended letter. This letter may or may not be published. At least YOU will know how I feel. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- N-L editorial 1-31-09.doc Description: MS-Word document
Things YOU can DO, and something you can to listen to
1) From 9 AM to 11 AM, a group of people will standing out in front of the Greene County Courthouse. They will be passing out Vote NO to the 1% tax increase proposal on February 3rd literature. How about joining the crowd? 2) Tom Martz's interview on the Vince Jericho program will be broadcast live at 6:30 am Friday morning. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Things YOU can DO, and something you can to listen to
TOMORROW! (sorry about that) Jim H. --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Charity Angel darlingdavisfam...@gmail.com wrote: From: Charity Angel darlingdavisfam...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Things YOU can DO, and something you can to listen to To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 2:56 PM Which day will #1 be happening? On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:39 PM, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1) From 9 AM to 11 AM, a group of people will standing out in front of the Greene County Courthouse. They will be passing out Vote NO to the 1% tax increase proposal on February 3rd literature. How about joining the crowd? 2) Tom Martz's interview on the Vince Jericho program will be broadcast live at 6:30 am Friday morning. -- My Blog http://www.angelauthor.blogspot.com Remember that the mantle of leadership is not the cloak of comfort, but the robe of responsibility. Accountability is not for the intention but for the deed. You must continue to refuse to compromise with expediency. You must maintain the courage to defy the consensus. You must continue to choose the harder right, instead of the easier wrong. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Computer Tech Support
Let me add one more to your list. A customer call tech support because they could not print out anything yellow with their color inkjet printer. After the techie ran through all the 'normal' glitches that might prevent someone being able to print all colors BUT yellow, he had an inspirational question. What kind of paper are you using now? Yellow construction paper. They walk amongst us, and further, most of them VOTE! Jim --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: Computer Tech Support To: Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 6:33 PM - Computer Tech Support This ought to make some of us feel better about our computer skills! = Tech support: What kind of computer do you have? Female customer: A white one... === Customer: Hi, this is Celine . I can't get my diskette out. Tech support: Have you tried pushing the Button? Customer: Yes, sure, it's really stuck. Tech support: That doesn't sound good; I'll make a note. Customer: No , wait a minute.. I hadn't inserted it yet... it's still on my desk... sorry === Tech support: Click on the 'my computer' icon on to the left of the screen. Customer: Your left or my left? === Tech support: Good day. How may I help you? Male customer: Hello... I can't print. Tech support: Would you click on 'start' for me and Customer: Listen pal; don't start getting technical on me! I'm not Bill Gates. === Customer: Hi, good afternoon, this is Martha, I can't print. Every time I try, it says 'Can't find printer'. I've even lifted the printer and placed it in front of the monitor, but the computer still says he can't find it... == = Customer: I have problems printing in red.. Tech support: Do you have a color printer? Customer: Aaaahthank you. === Tech support: What's on your monitor now, ma'am? Customer: A teddy bear my boyfriend bought for me at the 7-11. === Customer: My keyboard is not working anymore. Tech support: Are you sure it's plugged into the computer? Customer: No. I can't get behind the computer. Tech support: Pick up your keyboard and walk 10 paces back. Customer: ! OK Tech support: Did the keyboard come with you? Customer: Yes Tech support: That means the keyboard is not plugged in.. Is there another keyboard? Customer: Yes, there's another one here. Ah..that one does work... === Tech support: Your password is the small letter 'a' as in apple, a capital letter V as in Victor, the number 7. Customer: Is that 7 in capital letters ? == = Customer: I can't get on the Internet. Tech support: Are you sure you used the right password? Customer: Yes, I'm sure. I saw my colleague do it. Tech support: Can you tell me what the password was? Customer: Five stars. === Tech support: What anti-virus program do you use? Customer: Netscape. Tech support: That's not an anti-virus program. Customer: Oh, sorry...Internet Explorer. === Customer: I have a huge problem. A friend has placed a screen saver on my computer, but every time I move the mouse, it disappears. === Tech support: How may I help you? Customer: I'm writing my first e-mail. Tech support: OK, and what seems to be the problem? Customer: Well, I have the letter 'a' in the address, but how do I get the circle around it? === A woman customer called the Canon help desk with a problem with her printer. Tech support: Are you running it under windows? Customer: 'No, my desk is next to the door, but that is a good point. The man sitting in the cubicle next to me is under a window, and his printer is working fine.' === And last but not least... Tech support: 'Okay Bob, let's press the control and escape keys at the same time. That brings up a task list in the middle of the screen. Now type the letter 'P' to bring up the Program Manager.' Customer: I don't have a P. Tech support: On your keyboard, Bob. Customer: What do you mean? Tech support: 'P'.on your keyboard, Bob. Customer: I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT! Free information - Learn about Real Estate Investments. Click now! Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.10/1906 - Release Date: 1/21/2009 7:07 AM -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't
Re: huh ??
Well, I would say Mr. Stephens has qualified himself to sit on the OLD council, where arrogance and unwillingness to listen to citizens were premier qualifications. Jim H. --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: huh ?? To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:42 PM Quoting my opponent Mr. Stephens My professional background is unmatched by either of my opponents for this seat. I like his enthusiasm however he knows nothing of my professional background, management experience, or business experience. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Fw: reminder
--- On Fri, 1/9/09, mozark moz...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: mozark moz...@sbcglobal.net Subject: reminder To: James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 9:51 AM Please send out an e-mail reminder of our meeting tomorrow at the Carnegie Midtown Library in the upstair meeting room. Candidate for Mayor Jim O'Neal will be present so anyone wanting to learn of the positions of this man are welcome to attend and ask questions of the person wanting your vote to lead the direction of this city. Meeting starts at 1:00 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Budget cuts discussed today
My opinion as to what lengths a bunch of politicians will go to when pressed (defined as their being threatened to have their money source cut off) is as good as as those politicians' integrities. I expect the absolute worst in all uncertain situations, and I then can be pleasantly surprised when those expectations are not met. Is it possible to simultaneously be a cynic and a realist when dealing with Springfield area politics? Jim Hornaday --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Budget cuts discussed today To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:02 PM You value your opinion don't ya ?? On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:20 AM, James Hornaday Jr. rail...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If it is permissible to speculate a bit here, there are two general directions Greg Burris can take on presenting each of his four 'balanced' budget scenarios. 1) He cuts deeper into 'basic' or 'core' services, and leaves more of the 'fat' or 'fun to spend' stuff IN the budget. or 2) He cuts as much 'fat' as possible, with a minimum of 'basic' cutting. I have been looking at the capital spending budget. Believe me, there is fat. Furthering my speculation, I would guess he will go for option 1. Council will like the idea of making public budget proposals that HURT the people if the tax proposal goes down in February. Take that, you stupid voters, for not giving us what we wanted! Ehh, this opinion and $1 will buy a cup of coffee everywhere but Starbucks. Jim Hornaday --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Glenn Gohr archives_...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Glenn Gohr archives_...@hotmail.com Subject: Budget cuts discussed today To: Springfield Campaign For Liberty ronpaul...@meetup.com, Missouri Liberty Coalition missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 9:20 AM This may be of interest. Greg Burris is making a presentation to the City Council today at their noon meeting to talk about the budget cuts in case the pension tax does not pass. This was also on the front page of today's print version of the paper. Springfield News-Leader online, Jan. 6, 2009: http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090106/NEWS01/901060365 Budget cuts discussed today Burris mum on details of scenarios he'll present The news today could be a bitter pill for the Springfield City Council to swallow. City Manager Greg Burris plans to detail deep cuts that could be pursued in the next city budget if voters fail to pass a one-cent sales tax for the police/fire pension fund on Feb. 3. He'll present two scenarios tied to a failed sales tax vote. - One, based on a slight 0.75 percent increase in sales tax revenue, would require more than $3.9 million in budget cuts. - If sales tax revenue decreases by 1.5 percent -- a number some council members believe is more likely -- the city faces more than $5.7 million in cuts. Burris declined to reveal what cuts he plans to recommend until he makes his presentation to the City Council at today's noon meeting. Those cuts would be on top of $5.2 million in budget reductions the city made this year, and a city hiring freeze Burris put in place on Dec. 19 because of declining sales tax revenue. Along with worst-case scenarios, Burris will have two other budget plans for the council to consider, based on voters approving the sales tax. If sales tax revenue grows 0.75 percent, Burris projects a balanced budget in 2009-2010. But if sales tax revenue decreases 1.5 percent, the city will have to cut $125,000 from the new budget, according to Burris. All four budget plans are based on the city making a full payment into the police/fire pension fund, which the council has the option of doing. In 2004-2007, the council chose not to make full payments, decisions that added $10 million to the fund's current $194 million financial shortfall. Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Group stumping for sales tax
Oh, I would imagine Brad Boy has money problems of his own. Just think of the expenses of traveling all over the world with the deprived children adoption machine. It's sort of like him being a living symbol of the spirit of Springfield -- lots of glitz and paparazzi attention as he chink-chinks his VISA/MasterCard/AmericanExpress card here, there, and everywhere. Jim Hornaday --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Group stumping for sales tax To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Cc: Springfield Campaign For Liberty ronpaul...@meetup.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:00 PM If your going to form a committee it is always GOOD to start with the deep pockets people first. I wonder why Doug hasn't approached Brad for a donation into the pension fund, better yet why hasn't Dougie boy just dropped in a couple hundred G's to make it easier on the rest of us. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Glenn Gohr archives_...@hotmail.com wrote: Probably most of you saw this notice earlier in the paper on December 30th. Quite a few related stories in the News-Leader include these: Related stories Pay attention to city meeting (01/06/2009) Budget cuts discussed today (01/06/2009) Council to Burris: No on budgets (12/17/2008) Council supports plan to save police/fire pension (12/16/2008) Shortfall in city pension fund grows (12/12/2008) Council members support Burris' plan; public skeptical (12/11/2008) Binding city resolution sought on pension plan (12/10/2008) City's pension choices made sense, fire official says (12/09/2008) City sees pension fund tax proposal as vital (12/07/2008) Council sends tax plan to voters (11/25/2008) Council to tackle sales tax issue (11/24/2008) Burlison: Cut deferred 'bonuses' (11/20/2008) City pension fund losses grow (11/18/2008) Firefighters endorse sales tax (11/11/2008) LAGERS gets city's pension nod (10/31/2008) Repeal of existing city taxes suggested (10/30/2008) Burris seeks 1-cent tax to bolster pension fund (10/24/2008) Police/fire pension loses over $20 million (10/22/2008) Burris vows swift pension plan (09/19/2008) Sales tax might be pension solution (09/10/2008) __ Springfield News-Leader online, Dec. 30, 2008: http://www.news-leader.com/article/20081230/NEWS01/812300353 Group stumping for sales tax Alleviating police/fire pension shortfall is about safety, organizer says. A group of community leaders is organizing a campaign to help pass a 1-cent sales tax in February for the city's police/fire pension fund. Calling itself Citizens Keeping Our Commitment, the group filed organization papers with the Greene County clerk on Monday. Its 16 founding members include chairman Robert Spence, president of Evangel University; Norm Ridder, superintendent of Springfield Public Schools; Springfield businessman Doug Pitt; and former library director Annie Busch. The committee also includes two police officers and four firefighters. Morey Mechlin, deputy treasurer of the group, said the committee's goal is to make sure voters of the city have the information they need to make an informed choice. The committee plans to mail literature to city residents about the pension fund's financial problem and about how a 1-cent sales tax would help alleviate the fund's $194 million shortfall. If it can raise enough money, the group also might buy newspaper, radio and television ads, Mechlin said. Nobody likes taxes, she said. I pay mine every year and I grumble. But our community made a commitment to our police and firefighters. It's about your safety, my safety, the community's safety. A pledge was made and we should keep it. Mechlin, who recently managed the successful Question 1 statewide campaign to change the way local judges are selected, said Citizens Keeping Our Commitment will use a similar strategy. The group hopes to deliver information about the complicated pension issue in a way that most city residents will be able to clearly understand, she said. Spence said the group has hired Springfield-based pollster Mark Ellickson with Opinion Research Specialists to do a phone survey of city residents this Saturday. We want to get some scientific indication of people's perception of the problem and whether they understand the magnitude of it or not, Spence said. We hope to get results back within a week. Spence said the biggest challenge facing Citizens Keeping Our Commitment is to keep clearly before us what the real issue is. It's not about whether a defined pension benefit is better, or about what was or wasn't done 10 years ago, Spence said. My concern is that if this problem is not addressed now it will eventually suck a majority of the city's revenue and will adversely affect everything the city does. Spence acknowledged the sales tax vote was coming at an inopportune time, with the economy
The News-Leader CUT the size of the Sunday comics!
Dear All: Reading the Sunday comics is the best way for me to wake up on a Sunday. Today, I found the N-L (in the name of saving paper and their presumed economic ass) combined the TV guide section and the comics into one small section -- with a nominal print font size that is near impossible to read. Woe to Mr. Wyatt! I felt it necessary to respond in a manner that would force him to strain HIS eyes as he attempted to read my 'letter to the editor'. I sent him the following WORD document -- which I printed out and scanned at high resolution, and then PhotoShop cut the message size down to 1.25 inch high by 1 inch wide -- and then printed that reduced copy out on an ordinary piece of stationary. All very legible with a really GOOD magnifying glass. If Mr. Wyatt has any integrity, he will strain HIS eyes to read my message. I am not a man to mess with on mean Sunday mornings. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- inline: January 4.doc
Re: quite interesting
DAMN! If this is at all true (or what City Hall intends to do), they (council administration) have not got the message that the citizens of this city do NOT need any more expensive projects to be started. We can't afford the ones that on-going. I have been looking at the details of their published 5 year Capital Improvement Projects. 1. The city's stand-alone commitments for '09 capital spending are way beyond what the existing capital tax revenue will support. If they start all the projects, it will mean there will be MORE long-term DEBT piled up for the city. The current debt payment (taken from the general fund) is $9.2M. That's nearly twice the $5.2M they had to struggle over this year to make the proper pension fund payment. It's like any family with a BIG credit card debt. The card hasn't maxed out yet, but the card's interest payment is getting to be the biggest item in the monthly budget. 2. All the '09 projects will require BIG $$$ infusions from the state or the federal government, or donations from anonymous contributors for completion of financing the projects. Fat chance for those $$$ coming through as expected. Small wonder Cindy Rushefsky wanted to strike the provision in the city's tax increase guarantee that prohibited council from requesting any NEW tax increases during the duration of the proposed tax's collection. They (the good ol' boys) just can't give up the idea of SPENDING everyone else's money! Jim Hornaday --- On Thu, 1/1/09, larmelt...@aol.com larmelt...@aol.com wrote: From: larmelt...@aol.com larmelt...@aol.com Subject: Re: quite interesting To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:07 PM Ok. Boys. The provisions of this new law that they are contemplating would make it harder for Hammonds to aquire land and property to finish his Dream. It would cost the Tax payer more because Hammonds don't have the money and can't get a lone form any bank in the States. So. The City Managers that are butt buddies of Hammonds will find a way to give him tax brakes and your money to build and buy your neighbors stuff so Hammonds can Finish his dream. Have you ever seen the complete plan? You can see it down at the Bush building. Up stairs in the plan room. It kind'a looks like Sanantoneo Texas River walk. I like the river walk in Sanantoneo but I don't think we need one here in Springfield. This aint Sanantoneo and Greg Burris and Hammonds aint Daniel Boon. Keep your powder dry and Get Rid Of'em Larry Fairtax Melton In a message dated 1/1/2009 9:07:38 PM Central Standard Time, cameron.ea...@gmail.com writes: The City of Springfield recognizes that eminent domain reform could drastically undercut municipalities' ability to perform basic services, and for showing restraint in that respect the General Assembly is to be commended. However, the City of Springfield is hopeful that our legislators will be willing to readdress this issue after they have had a chance to reexamine some of the more costly provisions. Many provisions of the new law are overly burdensome and serve no purpose other than imposing additional hurdles and thus expenses to the municipality and the taxpayer New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: a letter
Tom: You kind of excluded my being your anonymous message bearer. I AM someone who does not lkive here in SGF. I have been known to tell things to the people of this city, so if SOMEHOW I fit your bearer needs, send me the message. I will then decide whether I wish to spread the poisonous facts for you. ^_^ Jim Hornaday --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com Subject: a letter To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com, Springfield RonPaul ronpaul...@meetup.com, rl...@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 11:04 AM I have a letter which I have transposed which I would like to see in the CFP and the S~N~L only not with my name attached to it. Anyone who might be interested in submitting this letter send me a private e~mail and I'll send you a private copy for your review. Should after reading it you chose not to use it just let me know , no hard feelings either way. I believe what I had to say in this letter is something that the voters should know before voting, since I'm a cadidate I believe it is wrong for me to have my name on it. I don't want someone trying to promote it as an attack piece when all I have done is point out the facts. A Springfield resident would be much appreciated for this instead of someone who does not lkive here -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Fw: Happy New Year 2009
--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Mary Dunne en...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Mary Dunne en...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Fw: Happy New Year 2009 To: Mary Courtney mary.court...@sbcglobal.net Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 9:49 AM --- On Thu, 1/1/09, pt...@aol.com pt...@aol.com wrote: From: pt...@aol.com pt...@aol.com Subject: Happy New Year 2009 To: carlandfer...@showmeav.com, dcd...@charter.net, smithel...@yahoo.com, fjacksonh...@yahoo.com, en...@sbcglobal.net, jhill...@sbcglobal.net, ruth...@hughes.net, reginarow...@yahoo.com, bigbad...@aol.com, md...@precoat.com, gsand...@yahoo.com, shepbo...@aol.com, lvha...@aol.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 7:09 PM Happy New Year 2009 I want you guys to be the first of all my e-mail buddies that I wish to send Happy New Year greetings... As I reflect on 2008, I can say we had a great year: Blacks are happy; Obama was elected. Whites are happy, OJ is in jail. Democrats are happy; George Bush is leaving office. Republicans are happy: Democrats will finally quit saying George Bush stole the election. And all of us are so happy; The election is finally over! I think 2009 will be even better: Immediately after his inauguration, Obama will balance the budget, revive the economy, solve the real estate problem, solve the auto industry problem, solve our gas/alternative energy problem, stop the fires and mudslides in California, ban hurricanes and tornadoes, stop identity theft, reverse global warming, find Osama, solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, get rid of corruption in government and achieve world peace . Then on the 7th day, He will rest. My best wishes for 2009 The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else. New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Fw: THE LAW IS THE LAW!
- Forwarded Message From: bob koeper bko...@yahoo.com To: Cliff Koeper koepe...@gmail.com Cc: Connie Dunn con...@topeinsurance.com; Irene Dunne en...@sbcglobal.net; Robert Guy robertg...@gmail.com; Jim Hornaday rail...@sbcglobal.net; Juli Koeper jko...@yahoo.com; Dave Rupp dave_r...@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:25:27 PM Subject: FW: THE LAW IS THE LAW! --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Mary Bickett mbick...@centurytel.net wrote: From: Mary Bickett mbick...@centurytel.net Subject: FW: THE LAW IS THE LAW! To: Ed Price limenos...@hotmail.com, Lorrie Price laprice...@msn.com, Dayle and Gin Johnson mont...@huskeraccess.com, Sandy Cornell shoel...@hotmail.com, Sue and Jim McGray mcgrayj...@msn.com, Sandy Danieley sampow...@comcast.net, Marilyn and Glen Wages henm...@yahoo.com, Karen Epidendio nonnieofth...@gmail.com, Stuart Gaber soxfan...@hotmail.com, Mike and Nancy Muehl m.mu...@cebridge.net, Bob Koeper bko...@yahoo.com, Dave and Nancy Murray brcrkmur...@aol.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 3:07 PM -Original Message- From: DEt Farro [mailto:dd...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:07 PM To: undisclosed recipients: Subject: Fw: THE LAW IS THE LAW! --- On Mon, 12/15/08, lenard wallace leonard_wall...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: lenard wallace leonard_wall...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Fw: THE LAW IS THE LAW! To: mrsdsm...@charter.net, Brenda ca-bee...@sbcglobal.net, DEt Farro dd...@yahoo.com, James Bond puppethead...@yahoo.com, karen luis glkkl...@comcast.net, peg pet...@nemontel.net Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 2:16 PM - Forwarded Message From: maria columbus mariacolum...@hotmail.com To: leisch...@yahoo.com leisch...@yahoo.com; Leonard Sandra Wallace leonard_wall...@sbcglobal.net; norma gonsalez normamar...@yahoo.com; gerry block g.blo...@juno.com; Sharon Robleto shama...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 4:24:47 PM Subject: FW: THE LAW IS THE LAW! From: kevin_caro...@hotmail.com Subject: FW: THE LAW IS THE LAW! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:17:47 -0800 This really makes a great point! AMEN!!! THE LAW IS THE LAW! I really love this one This is one of the better e-mails I have received in a long time! I hope this makes its way around the USA severaltimes over! So Be It! THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the ! law for the words under God to be on our money, then, so be it. And if that same government decides that the Ten Commandments are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it. I say, so be it, because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen. I say, so be it, because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions. I would like to think that those people have the American public's best interests at heart. BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE? Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His Commandments in Government buildings , I don't believe the Government and its employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life. I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving Easter. After all, it's just another day. I'd like theUS Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day. I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the Christmas Break. After all it's just another day. I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices services would work on Christmas, Good Friday Easter. It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be politically correct. In fact I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshipping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day What do you all think If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the majority of ALL of the American people. SO BE IT... Please Dear Lord, Give us the help needed to keep you in our country! 'Amen' and 'Amen' Touché! These are definitely things I never thought about but from now on, I will be sure to question those in government who support these changes. At the top, it says I hope this makes its way around the USA
Re: Christmas Bonus.....
Ah, such generosity from a leader! This has more meaning than squeezed pure water. Thank you. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:10:09 PM Subject: Christmas Bonus. Members please download the attachment and please enroll in the bonus program. All of you have worked hard and deserve the recognition. tom CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: here it is
More than great! I especially like those examples of heavy handed government in the first part of the letter. ^_^ Masterful composition! Hehehehe! Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:20:49 PM Subject: here it is Attached you will find the finished product straight from the National Taxpayers Union on our introduction letter for our business memberships. Please down load read and approve or suggest a change. I would like to have some of these ready for our meeting with the restaurant owners on Jan. 19th. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Compliance Greg Burris could use this,, Matbe ??
Larry: Let's hope Greg Burris DOESN'T know about or use this software group's services. Their objective appears to be supporting organizations wishing to be more effective in collecting sales tax money and/or collecting it from NEW sources. THAT we don't need. From a negative point of view, we can hope he isn't conversant with any of this stuff, and relies on skills in collecting sales tax he generated while being a VP of a non-sales tax collecting University. I'm more afraid Evelyn Honea could already be using this type service. We know the city is legislatively pushing for collecting new taxes from local people buying all non-taxed items on the internet. Jim Hornaday From: larmelt...@aol.com larmelt...@aol.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:04:12 PM Subject: Compliance Greg Burris could use this,, Matbe ?? Sales Tax Research Compliance Manager - Home Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Obama’s Political Pork-Barrel Infrastructure
Tom: You know, the potentially critical word in your first sentence is Should. We have seven council members with a combined mixture of avarice, dumbness, and good-ol-boy cronyism guiding their actions. We have a marginal chance of developing a good 'majority' in that election. Let us be hopeful, following Burris' introduction of his guarantee ordinance, and the seven dwarfs approval of that ordinance, that they don't find some never-before-seen sneaky way of subverting the ordinance's provisions. The April election is still our best hope. Oh, I am cynical tonight. Somewhere in the vicinity of Expect the worse, and be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be anything else. Jim Hornaday From: Tom Martz t.ma...@gmail.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:13:26 PM Subject: Obama’s Political Pork-Barrel Infrastructure Something by which our own city council should read and live by even if it is only until April after then hopefully we'll have a council that will abide by the restrictions placed upon government. They are there for a GOOD reason. Obama's Political Pork-Barrel Infrastructure by Thomas J. DiLorenzo In 1929 [President Herbert] Hoover devoted . . . 13 percent of the total budget to public works spending [and] pressured state and local governments to increase their own public works spending. -- How Capitalism Saved America, p. 168 One of the most enduring and menacing myths about the New Deal is that the billions of dollars that FDR spent on infrastructure spending and public works reduced unemployment. It is a menacing myth because it ignores the famous broken window fallacy in economics and essentially claims that the law of opportunity cost has been repealed. Government spending on anything – bridge repair, bridges to nowhere, museums that no one visits (such as the Public Works Museum in Baltimore), etc. – can only at best divert resources from the private sector to the political sphere. The taxes, government debt, and inflationary central bank money creation that is used to finance all such schemes creates unemployment in the private sector so that politicians can buy votes with taxpayer dollars by doling out government make-work jobs. What is seen are the government make-work jobs; what is unseen by the average citizen is all the private-sector jobs that are destroyed or which never materialize because they've been crowded out by government. Despite employing over 10 million people in various government make-work jobs from 1933 to 1940, the unemployment rate remained at 14.6 percent that year, almost five times higher than the rate of unemployment in 1929, the year of the stock market crash. The biggest beneficiary of this Mother of All Rube Goldberg Machines was FDR himself, for New Deal spending was used masterfully as a means of buying votes where he needed them the most – in states where he had the smallest electoral margins in 1932. It had nothing to do with stimulating the economy and everything to do with consolidating the political power base of FDR and the Democratic Party. This is also what President-elect Obama's promised stimulus package is designed to accomplish. The FDR Public Works Myth In The Roosevelt Myth John T. Flynn cited a 1938 Official Report of the U.S. Senate on Campaign Expenditures that documented how, in a number of states, Works Progress Administration (WPA) employees were told that they could only keep their government jobs if they re-registered to vote as Democrats; scores of them were fired for not re-registering as Democrats; they were required to take a pledge to vote for congressional Democrats as a condition of employment; and were instructed to donate 2 percent of their salaries to the Roosevelt re-election campaign if they wanted to keep their government jobs. Government employment increased tremendously right before the 1936 election; and in some states government employees were instructed to canvass for Democratic votes just prior to the 1936 election. In a February 1974 article in the Review of Economics and Statistics entitled The Political Economy of New Deal Spending: An Econometric Analysis, economist Gavin Wright showed that WPA employment reached peaks in the fall of election years, and the pattern is most pronounced when employment is measured relative to indices of need. More recently, Jim Couch and William Shughart showed in their book, The Political Economy of the New Deal, that the lion's share of New Deal spending did not go to the most economically-depressed states, such as the lower South, but in California and other Western states where the depression was less severe but FDR's 1932 electoral victory margins were slimmest (or where key Democratic members of Congress were facing tough competition). Among the conclusions that Couch and Shughart reached after an exhaustive econometric study of New Deal spending are: *
Re: T Bone Pickens Wind Generator
I've seen pictures of the inside of the GE generator housing (with generator). A man is working on (maintaining) the generator. He is very small compared to the generator. The inside of the housing looks the inside of a double-wide trailer, but with a height comparableto the width. Those suckers are so high up the air one doesn't get any idea as to how big they really are while standing on the ground. From: larmelt...@aol.com larmelt...@aol.com To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Cc: ronpaul...@meetup.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:55:18 AM Subject: T Bone Pickens Wind Generator O,O,O. I wanted to tell you all this I saw T Bone Pickens wind Generator going East on a truck on I 44 Monday. It is huge!!! I mean it is Big. The Truck was a long load with escort if front and one in back. The trailer was about 65 to 70 ft long and it only had two blades on it. They were pointy on the one end and looked like airplane props. At the end where they bolt to the rotor they are about 6 to 7 ft in Diameter. The GENERATOR must be huge. Larry The Fairtax Guy Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Your Sunday letter to the editor in the News-Leader
Dear Representative Viebrock: I am one or your constituents. My wife and I are aware of your good efforts in Jefferson City. I totally agree with what you said in today's editorial page concerning the as-yet unresolved issue of Springfield's pension deficit. I have been following this issue for some time, and appreciate your prior legislative efforts, resulting in the State of Missouri FORCING the City to properly pay its pension obligation this year. I am convinced the City would not done this without the State's statute that would have withheld a BIG portion of its sales tax revenue. The group I have been working with, the Missouri Liberty Coalition, (an independent non-profit association) has seen the pension deficit grow with the mismanagement of the City's tax revenue by the current council. We firmly believe the current city council members will NOT voluntarily or prudently use any new tax revenue, and will continue to waste revenue on non-essentials and questionable capital projects. I have been communicating with Mr. Burris, as the new City Manager. I believe, as a new administrator, he has potential to be a positive change for the city's actions. He has, with our urging, agreed to draft a resolution for council approval that would formally bind the current council to abide by the promises he made in public promotions of his 1% sales tax increase proposal. We hope this resolution is brought before council as quickly as possible, and that council will approve that resolution. Without council approval of a binding resolution for administration of any new tax money, it leaves many citizens with a totally unnecessary uncertainty as to whether the pension fund will be administered any better than it has been than in the past. We certainly appreciate your past efforts in this area, and hope you can continue your interest in the City's actions. James R. Hornaday, Jr. 4470 S. Park Ave. Springfield, MO 65810 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: City Council etc need to understand this
Ah, this is much closer to home. All governmental bodies are contemplating new
taxes to cover their collective past budgetary sins. Springfield is the first
to actually bring the problem to their voters and say Pay now, or we will
screw you in a manner you have never anticipated. The Feds and the States are
still talking nicey-nice change, and will send us the bill later.
From: Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 1:40:51 PM
Subject: Re: City Council etc need to understand this
It has to be the water since MoLiCo members drink my own personal brew at
meetings and it is know to have smaller government oxygenation principles where
as government types are drinking government approved municipal water LOL
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Jerry Blevins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is unbelievble is that the
people of this city is giving thought to passing a sales tax to bailout the
pension plan without taking a close look at what the plan is and how it can be
changed to keep us from having to do a bailout. I guess all bureaucrats,
city, county, state, and federal, have drank the same water and come down with
the same disease called bailout.
-Original Message-
From: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of James
Hornaday Jr.
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:55
AM
To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: City Council
etc need to understand this
People:
As a matter of adding
to some quick internal discussion, I would suggest the city administration has
started a serious campaign. It is absolutely intended to scare voters that core
services will go totally to pot if they don't vote Yes on February 3rd. This
is merely the first shot of serial salvos of impending doom that will come from
the city, regardless of what we do. Scare is their key word.
I would
further suggest we USE this city tactic to their disadvantage in our responses.
We need to show how mean and wasteful the administration is, and point out that
their biggest hangup to passing any tax increase is the fact that they want
plenty of new unencumbered tax revenue to pay off their pension debt WITHOUT
the
city changing their wasteful spending habits. We need to remind people it will
be a short period between a NO vote on February 3rd and the April election
where
a new council can be elected.
Jim Hornaday
- Original
Message
From: Matthew Block [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
missourilibertycoalition
missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 5,
2008 8:59:19 AM
Subject: Re: City Council etc need to understand
this
Actually, you might do best to not make a big deal of the
hiring
freeze unless the city is being very visible about it. They
obviously
want to use it to scare people into voting in a tax increase.
That
will only work if a lot of people hear about it and get scared.
If
the city doesn't do a good job of getting people scared, we don't
want
to help them out. Of course, if they do a good job then we're
better
off making sure people recognize it as a scare tactic. I just
think
you don't want to be too quick on the exposee.
Matt
On Dec 4,
7:50 pm, Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps one of you
would like to write a piece on the first salvo being
fired on passing
the tax increase and submit it to CFP or send it to me and
I'll forward
it to Mert.
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Charity
Davis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
That almost sounds like blackmail or getting cornered nice
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I received the Community Free Press yesterday
and saw that the threats to
our safety has already
started.
A complete freeze of any hiring of police and
firemen has been put into
place unless the tax increase passes
in February.
Original Message
Subject: City Council etc need to understand
this
From: Charity Davis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, December 04,
2008 6:37 am
To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com
http://www.mobudget.org/MO%20Structural%20Deficit%20Report%20final%20...
The people cannot afford increased taxes. I really think that
they will
be paying less then expected, and if they are taxed
higher, then the revenue
will disappear because people will cut
back more and more. From the state
down to the city level
there needs to be cutting not more spending, or we
could bring
on the collapse of our state and local governments.
If
people want more, they are going to need to give of their time and
talents. There is going to need to be more creativity in getting
things
done with less money being spent. I know that it
is probably going to be
something that no one really listens
to, but at least I said it anyway.
--
While you Were Sleeping
http
More thoughts about your 1% tax increase proposal -- for your consideration
Mr. Burris: Since you have chosen to respond (in part) to the email I sent to you by an opinion posting on the News-Leader, I shall again address my concerns about the future directions that you (as City Manager), and the current City Council members might take with any voter passage of a 1% sales tax increase. Your public statements, or promises, stand alone. We have nothing but your word that those promises will be carried out. You and the City Attorney tell us whatever a current council decides cannot be bound onto future council decisions. It is obvious that you and the current council believe this negative opinion. As a new City Manager, we recognize you were not responsible for the current pension fund deficit. You were hired to fix the mess. You have crafted a well meaning set of proposals intended to lead voters to an erroneous conclusion that City Council has made a complete set of promises for Council’s future action. You tell us these promises cannot be formalized or even written as a simple City Council statement of intentions that would bind even the current Council to follow your verbal proposals. At this point, I am reminded of Louis B. Mayer's comment on the value of a verbal contract: It's not worth the paper it's written on. Maybe you do not recognize the full fact yet that a great number of voters in Springfield do not trust this Council to change their spending habits, and that Council has great potential for wasting new tax revenue. We realize you must work at the direction of this Council. We would like to believe you intend to administer the city in an honorable and proper manner. From our observations, City Council members are ready to approve your simple promise-everything-but-guarantee-nothing tax proposal. If the tax proposal is approved as publicized, you and Council will be asking citizen voters in February to approve a very one sided obligation to pay off the City’s debt. We see no intention on the part of the City to honor your promises for better fiscal administration of all the City’s money. You haven’t even asked to the current Council to honor your promises for the duration of their remaining term, ending in April. We have no assurance this current Council would not propose and enact new spending actions contrary to your promises the day after any February election. If you have half your reputed leadership skills, I would suggest you use part of those skills to lead members of this City Council towards the recognition that the voters by February will be fully aware of their total lack of commitment to your promises. Further that we will be aware of all those incumbent Council members’ actions when the April primary elections come around. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: a weird question
Tom: SRC is reconditioning a series of GMC Diesel (and maybe gasoline) truck engines. They get these from all over, and may a few directly from GM. SRC has traditionally been a buyer of junk engines from scrap yards and from truck dealers who have customers with worn out engines that can't afford the OEM price of a new engine. Generally speaking, when tough times come, truck operators cut their costs by reconditioning worn out engines rather than buying new trucks or new engines. So, going by that rule-of-thumb, this won't be as bad for SRC as it is for GM. Of course, there are four other fingers on the hand, and who knows where those fingers are pointing. Jim Hornaday --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: a weird question To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 9:12 PM While watching KSFX this evening they interviewed Jack Stack of SRChttp://www.srcreman.com/homepage.htmand he said because of the problems of General Motors SRC is going to start laying people off. Yet if you look on SRC's website GM is not even listed as a consumer of there goods. I also thought SRC was in the business of reconditioning engines and unless rebuilt motors are going into new cars then how is the auto industry bailout going to affect this company ? tom -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ www.moliberty.org lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: rough draft
Right on , Man! I would say that we are getting close to the point where we lay down an ultimatum to Burris and Council. They either put in the proper binding terms in their tax proposal, or they are going to have the fight of their lives getting a gutless (meaning, the taxpayer continues to get screwed) proposal passed come next April. Jim Hornaday --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: rough draft To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 9:47 PM Much has been made lately of the 45 minute presentation to solve the police and fire pension system given by City Manager Greg Burris. I have had the opportunity to sit through a couple of these presentations, along with viewing the one on the internet and I believe there is much room for improvement. After passage of this tax increase the plan will generate up to 40 million dollars in revenue for the pension system*, *depending on shopping habits and tourism. Based on the current verbiage of the bill this tax increase will sunset in five years, or when the pension is 100% funded. Milliman, the company tasked with finding the solution to the funding shortfall, is one of the country's largest investment consulting firms in terms of assets under advisement. Included in the initial findings of Milliman was a statement that it would require six or more years to fund the pension plan 100%. In his presentation, City Manager Greg Burris has PROMISED that the city will contribute 29.88% funding into the pension plan* *during the five year timeframe. This means that approximately 40 to 50 million dollars will be placed in the pension system by the end of the first year of this tax increase. The reason for all this was so every player on the field had skin in the game. Now you are thinking this is good, this will put us well on the way to solvency; NOT so fast!! Here in lies the problem with this bailout plan of our city manager. Once We The People have voted YES to increase our taxes, absolutely NOTHING prevents the city council from spending the 29.88% else where in the confines of the city; just as occurred earlier when the city failed to fund the plan for four straight years. The skin that the city has in the game can be overlooked because the sales tax will be generating the required actuarial amount, thus allowing the city to meet the guidelines of state statute. There have been numerous requests that an ordinance be passed forcing city council to fund this 29.88%*;* however* *road blocks keep getting thrown in the way under the heading of*,* *binding future city councils*. According to City Attorney, Dan Wichmer*,* *binding future city councils* is defined as:** *Budget is year to year. It is only good for 1 year. That is why we can't bind future councils. We cannot make fiscal commitments beyond 1 year. Even bonds are subject to annual appropriation. * In short one council cannot oblige another council with commitments, which in hindsight is exactly what has been done with the short funding. Past city councils obligated future city council for this debt. A cursory research project was started to define what binding a future city council meant and how it pertains to our situation, and the response we found came directly out of the California constitution. The following is a basic rule for municipal law; *The Power and Limitations of a City * *Binding** Future Councils.** One city council cannot forever tie the hands of future city council with respect to legislative enactments; no ordinance passed by one city council may remain beyond the repeal or amendment of a future city council. Each council is elected by the people to serve the needs and desires of the people at that time, and cannot be restricted, from a legislative standpoint, by prior council action. A council may, however, enter into certain long-term contracts such as leases, cable television franchises, or rubbish contracts, provided there are not antitrust (anti competitiveness) problems.* By the definition of binding future city councils anyone can see nothing prevents city council from passing an ordinance requiring that the guaranteed amount promised by City Manager Greg Burris of 29.88% gets funded. The argument being used by our city attorney is disingenuous and has people asking*, *why won't our elected leaders put skin in the game an pass an ordinance requiring the city to fund the portion *for* which they are responsible*?* The city leadership has a trust issue with the taxpayers and by leaving this loophole the gap widens the distrust. City council do what is right and show the people that our elected officials are going to do what is best by the police, firefighters, and the taxpayers. --
RE: LOOK at what I found
What or whose law or statute is under consideration? Is this language taken from Missouri law, City Charter law, or (gasp) California law? Let's identify what we're looking at. If this is binding Missouri or Springfield charter stuff, Burris legally CAN'T write any definitive The City will do this and not that promises on the tax proposal. Weaseling wins! This cuts our arguments against the tax increase off at the knees. So, what's going on? and where are we? --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Jerry Blevins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jerry Blevins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: LOOK at what I found To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 9:09 PM How does it line up with Missouri Statutes??? -Original Message- From: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Martz Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:21 PM To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Subject: LOOK at what I found The Power and Limitations of a City Binding Future Councils. A basic rule of municipal law is one city council cannot forever tie the hands of future city council with respect to legislative enactments; no ordinance passed by one city council may remain beyond the repeal or amendment of a future city council. Each council is elected by the people to serve the needs and desires of the people at that time, and cannot be restricted, from a legislative standpoint, by prior council action. A council may, however, enter into certain long-term contracts such as leases, cable television franchises, or rubbish contracts, provided there are not antitrust (anticompetitiveness) problems. I wonder how Dan Wichmer is going to explain this to his new boss, and I wonder if the new boss Mr. Burris is going to grab this issue and run with it. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ www.moliberty.org lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: riff raff sit in
You already got my vote. --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Perrie Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Perrie Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: riff raff sit in To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 5:22 AM I'm just a riff raff kind of gal. Count me in. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At a recent council meeting the idea was floated to close the park central square after 11:00 PM. Now this is just the center section and does not include the street and sidewalk area. I had this brain fart that if this ordinance passes we should have a riff raff sit in from say 11:15 PM until around !:00 AM some Friday night after the Christmas Tree is placed in the center of town. One of the business owners downtown has chosen to consider people who go downtown and mingle in the square as riff raff. I personally do not believe the city should close the square for Urban District Alliance or any other organization in this town. The square just like the city belongs to the occupants of the town. I don't see any reason why I should be barred from going downtown having a cup of coffee and sitting on the park bench enjoying the ambience of the square and the surroundings. I have gotten some favorable feed back from others what do you all think ?? We wouldn't be vandalizing the place just having a casual meeting, drinking coffee and enjoying the decorations on the Christmas Tree. tom -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ www.moliberty.org lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) You don't pay taxes - they take taxes. ~ Chris Rock~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Fw: Re: Proposal for 1 % sales tax increase -- to be voted on by Council Monday
Hello Group: We have received a response from Mr. Chiles, following an email sent to all current city council members. Jim Hornaday --- On Mon, 11/10/08, James Hornaday Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: James Hornaday Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Proposal for 1 % sales tax increase -- to be voted on by Council Monday To: Dan Chiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:40 AM Mr. Chiles: I am sorry you believe the ballot proposal cannot be written in such a manner than taxpayers would have any assurance that the city council will conduct their future business in a better way than they have in the past. If the tax increase is approved, we taxpayers will have the total obligation to pay for the whole mess. We will continue to be at the mercy of council to act sensibly and not spend our tax dollars like they were free for the asking. Let me ask you this. Why is council hesitant to commit more than 10 million dollars from the telephone settlement to fund the pension deficit? Is there another financial crisis facing the city, and 'you' (plural) think anything more than a $10M settlement will be needed to get the city of a second jam? You personally have not been a long term party to the development of this pension fund mess. However, as a relative newcomer to Council and one with some term to serve out, I appreciate your intended claim to serve the taxpayers (and voters) well and in a more prudent manner. Jim Hornaday --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dan Chiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dan Chiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Proposal for 1 % sales tax increase -- to be voted on by Council Monday To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:22 AM Hi Jim, My undersanding is that ballot language has to be clear, concise and short enough to fit on a ballot. Some people have offered pages of amendments they would like to see glued on, but I don't think that's practical. State law applies to the question of what we can ask for and how we can phrase an issue when we ask for money related to law enforcement. So, the language has to focus on the immediate issue on the ballot. One City Council cannot bind a future city council in many regards including passing ordinances. So, we could make the ballot 5 pages long, but it wouldn't prevent future councils from acting in the City's interest, as they might perceive it. Just like this present city council did not create the pension mess, we should be prevented from offering a solution to clean it up now. I don't know what future city councils will do, but given the terrible financial mess we are in, I think we will be acting carefully with the taxpayer's dollars. I work in a factory and I'm raising a family and I always balance my budget. So should the city. thanks! dan On Saturday, November 08, 2008, at 07:06PM, James Hornaday Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Chiles: I attended the Nov. 6th open meeting at Big Momma's Cafe, featuring Greg Burris as the spokesman for the city. I listened to everything Mr. Burris had to say about the city's forthcoming 1% sales tax increase proposal. In that meeting, he promised there would be a shadow limitation against council proposing any new taxes until the pension deficit was paid up. He also promised that UP TO 10 million dollars from any telephone tax settlement would be put into the pension fund deficit. Today, I read the very brief language of the tax proposal that will be presented to Council for approval on Monday, the 10th of this month. There were NO mention of a shadow tax limitation on new taxes, or mention of any telephone tax settlement money being used to pay towards the pension fund. Mr. Burris made a very persuasive pitch to the group. If the proposal does not contain his promised limitations and restriction, I have serious doubts as to this city government's integrity. Is it possible he and Council are pretending to put some needed restrictions on what the citizens of Springfield are being asked to approve for a tax increase? Will the REAL tax proposal Monday night you are considering Monday contain the items promised by Mr. Burris? If the proposal is lacking its promised restrictions, we, the taxpayers, must suspect that Mr. Burris you, and the other members of City Council have intentions of continuing their profligate ways, and will continue to waste taxpayers money on non-essential items. Jim Hornaday --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do
Fw: Re: Proposal for 1 % sales tax increase -- to be voted on by Council M onday
Hello members: So, we have heard from another council person. We are asked to believe council will limit themselves to no more than $10M from any phone tax settlement, and that Mr. Burlison's proposal for a shadow limitation on new taxes is NOT the will of the rest of council. The good things Mr. Burris mentioned will NOT be on the ballot. Those promises just can't be put in the ballot language, and it will be the will of the current council to honor those promises. (Look up in the sky! That's a pig flying with the geese!) These statements and promises could be things for us to remember -- come the April election. Jim Hornaday --- On Sun, 11/9/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Proposal for 1 % sales tax increase -- to be voted on by Council M onday To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:21 PM Jim, Thank you for your email outlining your concerns which I understand completely. I want you to hear from me that any conditions promised by the City Manager are coming directly from a majority of council members expressing their wishes. We are limited in what can be included in the actual ballot language. It's like when a person is running for office. No matter what campaign promises he or she makes, only his or her name appears on the ballot. Our intention is exactly as Mr. Burris stated. There is no desire on the part of council to do anything short of fulfilling our promise to our police and firefighters. While I cannot do anything about your overall opinion of council, I can tell you that we will keep all promises we make, including those you heard from Mr. Burris, connected with this sales tax proposal. Mary Collette _ Click here and choose from thousands of high quality used cars. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vAOvN5t7JSRmzuIRThrWbp4blLZnxMmJkfNj5ngGRddssb0/?count=1234567890 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I FOUND IT !!!!
Tom: So, is it 'better' to use this Hancock proviso as a council candidate's campaign issue, or to sue the socks off the city, or maybe both? Jim Hornaday - Original Message From: Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:13:02 AM Subject: I FOUND IT Thanks to Mark Wright for pointing me in the right direction. With the assessment of restaurant health inspection fees being my pet peeve since it was asked for I have been doing mountains of research to prove these fees cannot be voted on. This portion came from page 4 of the Hancock Amendment. I have highlighted the section which pertains to my contention. http://www.truman.missouri.edu/uploads/Publications/MLA%2049-2004.pdf Local government tax limit/voter approval Sections 16 and 22 impose the tax limit and voter-approval requirement on local governments. The general rule is that voter approval is required before any political subdivision can levy any tax, license or fees not authorized when the Amendment was adopted or increase the current levy above the level at the time of adoption. In addition, if the existing base of a tax, license or fee is broadened (such as by repealing a deduction or exemption), then the tax rate has to be reduced to yield the same amount as would have been received on the prior base. The Missouri Supreme Court, in Keller v. Marion County Ambulance District, 820 S.W.2d 301 (Mo. banc 1991), enunciated a five-part test to be used in determining what constitutes a tax, license or fee: the time of the fee payment, the identity of the payer, whether the amount of the fee is affected by the level of goods or services provided to the payer; whether the government is providing the goods or services; and whether the activity has historically and exclusively been provided by the government. Id. at 304, fn 10. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ www.moliberty.org lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) In fact, there is a direct correlation between loyalty to one's spouse and the trustworthiness, sincerity, honesty and strength of leadership required to lead a nation. ~John Edwards~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: city council website
Tom: I like your this is the way I'd have voted web page. However, I have some questions in my mind that I hope you can resolve. I remember the big concern (as expressed by you) was that the wording of the road improvement tzx proposal was slippery, and that council could do damn near anything for distribution of those collected highway improvement taxes. Now we have two passed proposals from council that put those highway improvement taxes into some capital improvement projects that were actually highway needs projects. Does these to proposals 'prove' the wording of the highway tax proposal was indeed slippery? and simultaneously suggest current council used this ambiguity to actually do something right - - for a change? Or do I just don't understand the situation with sufficiency to know what is? and what was intended? and what could still happen?. Excuse me, this sounds like Bill Clinton explaining the meaning of the word is. Jim Hornaday - Original Message From: Tom Martz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:01:07 PM Subject: city council website For those of you that have taken the time to visit my city council website I have added a new feature called how I would've voted I have posted the bills up for approval on the next city council agenda and have posted it to the web page and have given a brief detail of the ordinance and why I would have either voted YES or NO on it. I even explain why it is that allowed me to come to the conclusion of the answer. I hope I will be able to have the time to continue this up through the election so people can track what my voting record is before even casting their vote. -- http://votetom4council.webs.com/ http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com/ www.moliberty.org lite a fire for a man he'll be warm for a day, lite the man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) In fact, there is a direct correlation between loyalty to one's spouse and the trustworthiness, sincerity, honesty and strength of leadership required to lead a nation. ~John Edwards~ no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ Save your property rights www.mo-cpr.org http://www.radiofreeliberty.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever. -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
