Fred: Possible wishy-washy answers:
If all 'they' are doing is keeping track of the total response of what 'everybody' says on the web, 'they' are just observing the totals of a spontaneous public poll. If they start keeping track of things like "Joe Doakes has made seditious remarks about topic X 15 times in the last month", Big Brother is indeed watching. But, and this is a big but: how much of Joe Doakes' privacy has been invaded or compromised by his shooting his mouth off in a PUBLIC forum. Is statement of an opinion (no matter how odious) a crime worthy of a warrant for arrest? That's not a completely black and white issue. Just remember the perfect example of a bad public statement by an individual in a crowd - - "Fire!" when there is no fire. Yes, I really don't like the idea that loopholes (or mis-interpretation of legislation) in current laws that could be indiscrimiantly used by government agencies to listening in on private phone lines - - without an independent judge's approval. Ehh, there are too many shades of gray in this multi-dimensional problem. Jim ________________________________ From: Fred B. Ellison <fbelli...@yahoo.com> To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:48:06 PM Subject: Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening Question: Isn't this a violation of 4th Amendment protection against unlawful searches and seizures and a violation of privacy rights? Law enforcement should not be allowed to monitor communications without a warrant based on reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, James Hornaday Jr. <rail...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >From: James Hornaday Jr. <rail...@sbcglobal.net> >Subject: Re: Big Brother is Watching and Listening >To: missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com >Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 2:37 PM > > > > >Fred: > >Might it be possible that: > >1) the military is listening to what the public "says", and appears to be >taking a rational approach to their perceived problems and has decided to >avoid making the same mistakes twice. > >2) Congress and the White House are listening in a similar manner, and have >decided to stonewall it - - "All the loudmouth violent disrupters at our town >hall meetings that disagree with us are Nazi fascists or Rush Limbaugh >ditto-heads, and are dangerous people that should be locked up in our new >National Guard internment camps." > >Hmmmmm? just speculating. Maybe it's a mixed blessing/danger that 'they' are >listening to what the public is saying. > >Jim Hornaday > > > > ________________________________ From: Fred B. Ellison <fbelli...@yahoo.com> >To: MLC Google Group <missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com>; Young >Conservatives <ty...@googlegroups.com> >Cc: Campaign for Liberty-SGF <springfield...@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:41:11 PM >Subject: Big Brother is Watching and Listening > > > >http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090810/D99VV4M80.html > > >Air Force used Twitter to track NY flyover fallout > > >Aug 10, 6:11 AM (ET) > >By RICHARD LARDNER > > >(AP) This undated photo released by the Defense Department shows one of the >president's official planes,... >Full Image > > > > WASHINGTON (AP) - As the Pentagon warns of the security risks posed by > social networking sites, newly released government documents show the > military also uses these Internet tools to monitor and react to coverage of > high-profile events. > >The Air Force tracked the instant messaging service Twitter, video carrier >YouTube and various blogs to assess the huge public backlash to the Air Force >One flyover of the Statue of Liberty this spring, according to the documents. > >And while the attempts at damage control failed - "No positive spin is >possible," one PowerPoint chart reads - the episode opens a window into the >tactics for operating in a boundless digital news cycle. > >This new terrain has slippery slopes, though, for the military. Facebook, >MySpace and other social media sites are very popular among service members, >including those in Iraq and Afghanistan who want to keep in touch with friends >and family. The sites are also valued by military organizations for recruiting >or communicating with other federal agencies. > >But posting information on these interactive links makes it vulnerable to >being lost or stolen by the enemy, according to Pentagon officials. On >Thursday hackers shut down Twitter for several hours, while Facebook had >intermittent access problems - an indication of the shortcomings of relying on >these services. > >The Marine Corps' computer network blocks users from accessing social media >sites, which service officials say expose "information to adversaries" and >provide "an easy conduit for information leakage." > >The Marines recently made its ban official. And that prohibition might extend >to other parts of the military pending a top-level review ordered in late July >by Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn. > >In a widely distributed memo, Lynn said the so-called "Web 2.0" sites are >important tools but more study is needed to understand their threats and >benefits. > >Air Force officials are already aware of the potential benefits. > >According to the Air Force One documents released through the Freedom of >Information Act, a unit called the Combat Information Cell at Tyndall Air >Force Base in Florida monitored the public fallout from the April 27 flight >and offered recommendations for dealing with the fast-breaking story. > >Formed two years ago, the cell is made up of as many as nine people who >analyze piles of data culled from the Internet and other sources to determine >whether the Air Force's message is being heard. > >The presidential plane took off for New York from Andrews Air Force in >Maryland accompanied by two F-16 jet fighters. The purpose of the flight, >which wasn't publicly announced, was to get new photos of the specially >modified Boeing 747 with the statue in the background. > >The mission quickly became a public relations disaster as panicked New >Yorkers, fearing another 9/11-style attack, emptied office buildings. In the >aftermath, Louis Caldera, director of the White House military office that >authorized the flight, was fired. > >The Combat Information Cell's first assessment of the event said "Web site >blog comments 'furious' at best." Local reporting of the flyover was "very >critical, highlighting scare factor," it added. > >A Twitter search revealed a rate of one "tweet" per minute about a pair of >F-16s chasing a commercial airliner. A tweet is a text message of up to 140 >characters delivered to the author's subscribers, who are known as followers. > >Media coverage over the next 24 hours "will focus on local hysteria and lack >of public notification," the cell predicted. "Blogs will continue to be >overwhelmingly negative." > >"Damage control requires timely counter-information," but the opportunity for >that had passed, the assessment said. The cell recommended acknowledging the >mistake and ensuring it didn't happen again. > >Another update on April 28 said the story was still "reverberating, >surprisingly resilient." The tweet rate had grown to three per minute and the >words "New York" had been pushed into Twitter's high-frequency topic category. >Videos of the event posted on YouTube had been viewed more than 260,000 times, >it said. > >By April 30, the story had faded, the cell reported. The blogs were still very >critical, but it was the White House, not the Air Force, that was taking the >heat, the assessment for that day said. > >The other dominant news story at the time was public concern over the spread >of swine flu. According to the documents, the same Air Force cell suggested >there may be an opportunity to turn the tide. "Government involvement in this >incident could be used to frame expected handling of H1N1 outbreak," one of >the PowerPoint charts reads. > >A Utah Air National Guard unit, the 101st Information Warfare Flight in Salt >Lake City, was also monitoring the social sites. "To say that this event is >being beaten like a dead horse is an understatement," reads an April 28 e-mail >from the unit to other Air Force offices. "Has really taken off in Web. 2.0." > >Both the 101st and the Combat Information Cell are attached to the 1st Air >Force, which is based at Tyndall and is in charge of guarding U.S. airspace. > >1st Air Force spokesman Al Eakle explained that the command had no role in >planning or coordinating the Air Force One flight. But the units tracked >social networks and blog traffic "to obtain what lessons we might learn so as >not to repeat them in the future." The assessments were sent to the command's >leadership so they'd know how the public was reacting, he added. > >John Verdi of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington said >gray zones can emerge while monitoring social networking sites because viewing >and participating is based on trust. > >"Lots of times individuals upload private or sensitive information that they >expect to share with their friends or family and not the whole Internet >world," Verdi said. "It would certainly be a major problem if the government >were accessing that information under false pretenses." > >Paul Bove, an Air Force digital media strategist, said service personnel are >instructed not to do that. Nor are they to use aliases or represent a position >that's beyond the scope of what they do. > >"We always tell people, 'Stay in your lane and don't talk about something that >you're not qualified to talk about,'" Bove said. > >The issue of aliases is at the heart of a complaint stemming for the Army >Corps of Engineers' performance in New Orleans before and after Hurricane >Katrina. > >On Tuesday, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., asked the Pentagon inspector general to >examine allegations that Corps employees posed as ordinary citizens and posted >comments on a New Orleans web site defending the organization from criticism >following the disaster. > >Jon Donley, former editor of NOLA.com, said in a June 9 affidavit that there >were as many as 20 registered users who developed a pattern of not only >defending the Corps, but at times being "overtly abusive" to any critics. He >said he was able to trace their posts to a Corps Internet address. > >Ken Holder, a spokesman for Corps' New Orleans District, said it will >cooperate with any investigation. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to >take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic >purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and >sacrifice for that freedom." - John F. Kennedy > >"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, >or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and >evidence." - John Adams > >"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of >justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachmments are confidential and >may be protected by > legal privilege. The information contained herein is for the sole use of the > intended recipient and any disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on > this message or any attachment by unintended recipients is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us > immediately by replying to this email and deleting it from your computer. > > > > >>> > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ This is a Free Speech forum. 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