Re: [Mono-list] Paths to temporary files
Charles Martin a écrit : Well guys, I'm still struggling with that permission issue and I wish to permanently resolve this error : System.UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path /root/tmp/nobody-temp-aspnet/e828334c is denied. I guess you launch apache manually from user root (on Mandrake, as you stated), so before launching apache, do : export TMP=/tmp export TMPDIR=/tmp I think your problem is not related to mono, but only to your apache setup. However, Gonzalo's tip may be a good one too: compilation tempDirectory=/blah/blah / -- Arnaud Bienvenu Makina Corpus ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] mod_mono
Hi Darren, Gonz, Joseph, everyone, While we're on the topic, I figured I'd query Gonzalo on an issue the br-mono.org guys have been having recently. I'm hosting them with the #50049 workaround, as I am a few people, but their development is pretty heavy. It seems that when they update assemblies on the server their socket needs a kick (delete re-create) before the server will recognize a new assembly was uploaded. No one else has really noticed this since the sockets get recreated on a pretty regular basis anyway. :) I've recently noticed this myself when doing some small ASP.net work for gotmono.net. I've got all my ASP.net folks set up with a web interface now to restart their own socket, but this isn't terribly convenient. [Aside: I'll be releasing the code for this little web script, amongst others, very soon. I'd like to get everything cleaned up first. Just in case anyone else is interested.] I'm wondering - where should I start looking to resolve this problem? Is it mod_mono's job or XSP's to recognize an assembly has changed? If we can come to an agreement about how to implement Darren's suggestions this seems like something that would work right alongside. Unless I'm way off track. Thanks! -- Steve Deobald cityhost.ca On Wed, 2004-24-11 at 22:13 -0800, Darren Martz wrote: There's other alternative that works for other apache models than prefork: running mod-mono-server by yourself. This way you only have to tell the module not to fork (MonoRunXSP false) and you can set its own user, .wapi dir, etc. You'll want to start/stop this 'daemon' when apache starts/stops (the --terminate option was added recently to mod-mono-server so that you can shutdown gracefully a running mod-mono-server). Other advantages of this way of managing applications is that you don't need to restart mod-mono-server if you've changed unrelated stuff in the apache configuration. Having a balance between an easy to use configuration and a super-flexible configuration is certainly ideal. What you describe certainly allows a fair amount of control over the server process. Bringing the more advanced features such as multiple processes to the easy to use side could only advance mod_mono's reputation. Right now the admin is required to manually create a directory per application and add supporting MonoUnixSocket/MonoWapiDir entries to the config file. The config entries are basic to write, but the manual creation of unique directories requires manual intervention. If mod_mono were to auto-create the unique sub-folders on demand, it would be far simpler to configure multiple applications. Take the following for a lengthy example: Location /TestA MonoGroup MyAppOne MonoApplication /TestA:/var/www/TestA/ /Location Location /TestB MonoGroup MyAppOne MonoApplication /TestB:/var/www/TestB/ /Location Location /TestC MonoGroup MyAppTwo MonoApplication /TestC:/var/www/TestC/ /Location Location /TestD MonoApplication /TestD:/var/www/TestD/ /Location Location /TestE MonoUseXSP False MonoUnixSocket /tmp/mycustom/mod_mono_server MonoWapiDir /tmp/mycustom/ MonoApplication /TestE:/var/www/TestE/ /Location Given the above five mono applications, on Linux the following directories would be created: # apps TestA and TestB would use the following /tmp/mod_mono/MyAppOne/.wapi /tmp/mod_mono/MyAppOne/mod_mono_server # app TestC would use the following /tmp/mod_mono/MyAppTwo/.wapi /tmp/mod_mono/MyAppTwo/mod_mono_server # app TestD would use the following /tmp/mod_mono/Default/.wapi /tmp/mod_mono/Default/mod_mono_server The user would be responsible to create the /tmp/mod_mono/ directory, but the remaining sub-directories would be generated by the module. Powerful and easy to use. The TestE example would be completely controlled externally as you described. On Windows that would instead create the following named pipes (same config file): //./mod_mono/MyAppOne //./mod_mono/MyAppTwo //./mod_mono/Default The TestE example on Windows would not work cause the MonoUnixSocket would not likely be ported. Angel Marin is working on it and is using the TCP socket, not the unix socket which, btw, is available from certain version of the windows API, but not likely to be used in Angel's port. Due to the large performance differences between named-pipes and sockets in Windows, I strongly suggest investigating a different approach. In my experience, when the client and the server reside on the same box, pipes have a huge performance gain over sockets any day. Take SQL Server for instance, do a test between pipes and sockets and witness the results for yourself. I still like more the setup I said above. Have you tried running apache using the MPM worker thread model? You'll see it failing miserably to spawn mod-mono-server because of how apache
Re: [Mono-list] mod_mono
On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 10:13:52PM -0800, Darren Martz wrote: Angel Marin is working on it and is using the TCP socket, not the unix socket which, btw, is available from certain version of the windows API, but not likely to be used in Angel's port. Due to the large performance differences between named-pipes and sockets in Windows, I strongly suggest investigating a different approach. In my experience, when the client and the server reside on the same box, pipes have a huge performance gain over sockets any day. Take SQL Server for instance, do a test between pipes and sockets and witness the results for yourself. Well, it uses tcp socket, as is the straightforward port from current code. And the first thing I wanted to have was mod_mono compiling and working under windows. Using named-pipes is a non-trivial implementation as all the code in mod_mono expects apr_socket to be used. Then in order to uses pipes, a mayor rewrite would be needed. And of course mod-mono-server should implement the same logic. Of course in the long term is the way to go, but by now I'm focused on having a functional tcp version [1]. Which is better than nothing? :). APR provides all the necessary portable funcions, so that part won't be too hard. [1] http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/mono-devel-list/2004-November/008776.html -- Angel Marin http://anmar.eu.org/ ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
RE: [Mono-list] mod_mono
Well, it uses tcp socket, as is the straightforward port from current code. And the first thing I wanted to have was mod_mono compiling and working under windows. Using named-pipes is a non-trivial implementation as all the code in mod_mono expects apr_socket to be used. Then in order to uses pipes, a mayor rewrite would be needed. And of course mod-mono-server should implement the same logic. Of course in the long term is the way to go, but by now I'm focused on having a functional tcp version [1]. Which is better than nothing? :). APR provides all the necessary portable funcions, so that part won't be too hard. Many people will appreciate the work your doing!! I believe this mod_mono module will help the long time Windows folks (like myself) transition to Apache for Windows and later Linux. Some of the companies I have delt with in the past few years had strong desires to switch to Apache for Windows to avoid IIS, but it has not been possible. One particilar company was a VERY large international operation wanting to avoid IIS security issues by moving to Apache. As you stated, the ability to use to the module always comes before tweeking performance. I completely agree it's a non-trivial task. If there is interest from this or another discussion, perhaps there is a more efficient long term solution that will work for both Windows and Linux... Perhaps pipes, perhaps shared memory... But later, once the Windows port has time to seed with people :-) ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Npgsql 0.7beta3 updated to svn.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I just commited 0.7beta3 local changes to svn. Please, give it a try and let me know if you have any problems with it. I will update soon website info about Npgsql to reflect new features and status. - -- Regards, Francisco Figueiredo Jr. Membro Fundador do Projeto MonoBrasil - MonoBrasil Project Founder Member http://monobrasil.softwarelivre.org - - Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind. ~ ~ Albert Einstein -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBQaYS/f7iFmsNzeXfAQIl2gf8CYXg3CFZJI7mxxBya/wldf5zgpYbu/2z GcDgJfuX3kaxITRHBd+CTjNyIvopVMrenXHXCN2DqvTsX63oZYnZuR9ci/ccLOs5 XyCw3Kit8sKPVja5wT93VyeLBpmCzfkRdQxrcjOjaFVotfMGK6xMn7ygVfxNMOMy hv+chx0p9b1w5iWGZMjmul8Oa/y/0KmFoLt2ro0YOYYpRh6KnFUDiRNoweOE1eMJ Gl5aJXCbpTm2HsYkM9LV0yIJxFBzEXOf5UiDaqODr5j3QT+e+D7AOIP/7v7JufLM V49ux6HRzcTeq6jNj4c9gRAinXB0sX5u+WkGnDZjesFYjpPDXFN9kg== =l6Lu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Mono on OpenBSD - again
Hi all, I've been able to get Mono successfully compiled and installed on OpenBSD with a minimal amount of work. I can even compile and run most C# apps. However, when using the -pkg option things don't go so well: I get a mono in free(): error: modified (chunk-) pointer error. Also, when serving aspx pages xsp simply locks up and mon_mono does too, but at least mod_mono leaves this little tidbit in the error log: mono in free(): error: pointer to wrong page. So, does this look familiar at all? I've had to compile Mono with --with-gc=none because with any garbage collection it just freezes. Thanks for any help, tips, pointers. Marc ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Events using Remoting
Hello, I have a problem using events with MarshalByRefObject classes. I explain it: I have two programs server and client and one lib to share something classes. At lib I have the abstract class A : MarshalByRefObject. The server register at http channel this class and implement it. The client get this class from server. This class A has a method to get a second class B, this is public abstract at common lib and MarshalByRefObject. Well at client I have a delegate, that is declared type at lib, that link with a method at client. To this point all works. B has a event and when the client execute: b.event += delegate; I get a exception error that say Couldn't bind to method '', where the method is the method of the client that is linked with the delegate. I hope that my problem can be understand because my english is very poor ;-). Thanks by all. -- -- | Andrés Otón Urbano | Jabber:Baxas en bulmalug.net| | Estudiante Ing. de Telecomunicación | Linux User: 297070 | | Universidad Politecnica de Cartagena | andres.oton en gmail.com | -- -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o - ¿Lastima? Sí, fue lastima lo que detuvo la mano de Bilbo. Lastima y misericordia: no matar sin necesidad. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o - Muchos de los que viven merecen morir y algunos de los que mueren merecen la vida. ¿Puedes devolver la vida?. Entonces no te apresures a dispensar la muerte, pues ni el más sabio conoce el fin de todos los caminos. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] orkut + mono ?
Hello Folks I m just curious if Orkut using Mono ? Their webpages seem to be in aspx ( asp.net ?) http://www.orkut.com/Settings.aspx while Netcraft shows they to be running on linux servers http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=orkut.com Happy Coding Harsh -- __ http://www.ebackend.com/blog ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] orkut + mono ?
Hi, I m just curious if Orkut using Mono ? Their webpages seem to be in aspx ( asp.net ?) http://www.orkut.com/Settings.aspx while Netcraft shows they to be running on linux servers http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=orkut.com Does not seem so (just a proxy?) http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=637tid=1 (need to login) Atsushi Eno ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] orkut + mono ?
Harsh Busa wrote: Hello Folks I m just curious if Orkut using Mono ? Their webpages seem to be in aspx ( asp.net ?) http://www.orkut.com/Settings.aspx while Netcraft shows they to be running on linux servers http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=orkut.com Happy Coding Harsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ telnet orkut.com 80 Trying 64.233.171.85... Connected to orkut.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET /Default.aspx HTTP/1.0 HTTP/1.0 302 Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0 X-Powered-By: ASP.NET I think they bought an IIS server... Matt ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Re: Compiling dotLucene with mono (thanks Arnaud)
Thanks Arnaud, I will try with Monodevelop. Regards! p.d Sorry by my late response, i was out for a while ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mono-list digest, Vol 1 #2178 - 7 msgs Sent: 19 Nov 2004 11:30:29 Send Mono-list mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list[1] or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Mono-list digest... Today's Topics: 1. RE: Apache 1.3 Configuration (Darren Martz) 2. Re: rpm spec files (Gregory Junker) 3. Mono / C# JXTA port (Gregory Bowyer) 4. Re: rpm spec files (Gregory Junker) 5. RE: mon_mono howto guide? (Simon J) 6. Re: Compiling dotLucene with mono (Arnaud Bienvenu) 7. Re: Re: DotNetNuke on Mono (Windows) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Darren Martz To: 'Gary Mack' , , Subject: RE: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:09:06 -0800 Try adding permission settings first. Also check if the apache user belongs to the aspnet group. I am not 100% sure if that matters, but I *think* it does. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Mack Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 5:47 PM To: Darren Martz; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration Well, here are the values within my httpd.conf (Apache 1.3) related to mod_mono: LoadModule mono_module libexec/apache/libmod_mono.so AddModule mod_mono.c Alias /demo /usr/local/share/doc/xsp/test MonoApplications /demo:/usr/local/share/doc/xsp/test SetHandler mono DirectoryIndex index.aspx Is it possible I need to add a mime type or set permissions on the demo directory? And what would those settings need to be if that is the case? Thanks for your responses. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Martz Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 5:03 PM To: Gary Mack; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration Well, that wasn't it. It's a bunch of temp files for emulating windows file access or something like that, so it gets recreated each time it runs. I would post clips of your config file (only mono related stuff). Hmm... If its creating the /tmp/.wapi folder after you delete it, that seems like mod-mono-server.exe is at least starting. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Mack Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:40 PM To: Darren Martz; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration I tried the command, but it seems that folder doesn't get deleted. It deletes but then when I hit the demo page again, I get the same error and the .wapi folder is back. Any ideas? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Martz Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration Just ran into the same issue. Try the following... # rm -Rf /tmp/.wapi FYI: A how-to/faq is being written that will cover topics like this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon-Eirik Pettersen Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mono-list] Apache 1.3 Configuration Gary Mack wrote: Apache 1.3 Configuration Hi all, I am excited to learn about the Mono Project and develop cross-platform ASP.Net applications. I have installed mono successfully, XSP, Apache 1.3 and mod_mono. All the files are in their default locations. And I have edited the httpd.conf file, but /tmp/mod-mono-server.exe does not get launched when Apache starts. Apache is started successfully and I get an error when hitting the demo page: *Service Temporarily Unavailable* *The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. * ** *Apache/1.3.33 Server at hellmouth.toythieves.com Port 80* I must have missed some configuration lines or not putting something in the correct place within Apache's configuration. I also took a look and no processes relating to mono seem to be starting. Please help. I really want to see this in action. If anyone wants, I can post my httpd.conf. Thanks in
RE: [Mono-list] orkut + mono ?
Hm. They are running IIS 6.0 probably on Windows. Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0 X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Cheers, Patrik -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harsh Busa Sent: den 25 november 2004 19:00 To: mono Subject: [Mono-list] orkut + mono ? Hello Folks I m just curious if Orkut using Mono ? Their webpages seem to be in aspx ( asp.net ?) http://www.orkut.com/Settings.aspx while Netcraft shows they to be running on linux servers http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=orkut.com Happy Coding Harsh -- __ http://www.ebackend.com/blog ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] re: mod_mono
So why consider changing the syntax? The entries are completely unique to Linux requiring a new set of commands for a Win32 port. The outcome of using these commands is to control unique processes of mod-mono-server regardless of the host platform. This is our way of controlling groups of MonoApplications/mod-mono-server processes, what I'll refer to as application pools. A common syntax that supports application pools across multiple platforms seems logical/ideal. I still like more the setup I said above. Have you tried running apache using the MPM worker thread model? You'll see it failing miserably to spawn mod-mono-server because of how apache manages processes. Yes, this is an issue when spawning CGIs as well. Apache 2 includes a module mod_cgid that deals with that by spawning a external process which in turn spawns others in demand. In that case it is better to run XSP on your own, as you mentioned. un saludo Daniel ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Problem with XSLTTranfsorm
I have problems using XSLTTransform. I have the following code. I expect to be able to use the var modoAccion inside the xslt but it is null. The code works correctly under .net. modoAccion=INICIAL; System.Console.WriteLine (estoy aca + modoAccion); XsltArgumentList xslArg = new XsltArgumentList(); xslArg.AddParam(modoAccion, , modoAccion); xslt.Transform(doc1, xslArg,Response.OutputStream , null); thanks ariel ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Problem with XSLTTranfsorm
Hi, Ariel. Do you have an xsl:param node for modoAccion at the top-level of your transform? (i.e. xsl:param name=modoAccion/) Also, what do you mean it is null? If you're not getting the string value, you should be seeing a message about the variable not being defined. Happy thanksgiving everyone. Double thanks to all of the Mono developers. - Josh Tauberer On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Ariel Rios wrote: I have problems using XSLTTransform. I have the following code. I expect to be able to use the var modoAccion inside the xslt but it is null. The code works correctly under .net. modoAccion=INICIAL; System.Console.WriteLine (estoy aca + modoAccion); XsltArgumentList xslArg = new XsltArgumentList(); xslArg.AddParam(modoAccion, , modoAccion); xslt.Transform(doc1, xslArg,Response.OutputStream , null); thanks ariel ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Problem with XSLTTranfsorm
Hi,
(B
(BCan you please provide reproducible stylesheet and input document
(Bas well? If possible, entering a new bug to bugzilla would be nice.
(B
(BAtsushi Eno
(B
(BAriel Rios wrote:
(B I have problems using XSLTTransform. I have the following
(B code. I expect to be able to use the var modoAccion inside the
(B xslt but it is null. The code works correctly under .net.
(B
(B modoAccion="INICIAL";
(B System.Console.WriteLine ("estoy aca" + modoAccion);
(B XsltArgumentList xslArg = new XsltArgumentList();
(B xslArg.AddParam("modoAccion", "", modoAccion);
(B xslt.Transform(doc1, xslArg,Response.OutputStream , null);
(B
(B thanks
(B ariel
(B ___
(B Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(B http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
(B
(B
(B___
(BMono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bhttp://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] StringDictionary Class
I'm trying to use the System.Collections.Specialized.StringDictionary class but when I try to use the Item property it say it doesn't contain a definition for it. The documentation doesn't mark it as incomplete though. The same goes for ListDictionary.Item Are these incomplete or and I doing something wrong? I know I'm not mistyping it. RT ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] StringDictionary Class
Short version: The Item property is really an indexer, which permits array-like access to the data structure. For example, code fragment below should print ``Apple'': StringDictionary dict = new StringDictionary(); dict.Add(a, Apple); Console.WriteLine(dict[a]); Longer version: This is one of the cases where the C# representation differs from that of the underlying metadata. From C#'s perspective, properties do not have parameters, and they only have code associated with getting and setting. The metadata that the CLI seems actually permits properties with zero or many parameters, even though C# does not directly support declaring them. In the case of StringDictionary, there is a property names Item, which takes a parameter. From C#'s perspective, this is an indexer. On Thursday 25 November 2004 10:33 pm, Ryan wrote: I'm trying to use the System.Collections.Specialized.StringDictionary class but when I try to use the Item property it say it doesn't contain a definition for it. The documentation doesn't mark it as incomplete though. The same goes for ListDictionary.Item Are these incomplete or and I doing something wrong? I know I'm not mistyping it. ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] mod_mono not recompiling when I edit files
Suddenly mod-mono-server stopped recompiling files when I edit them. I have to killall -TERM mono after every edit to recompile them. Anything may cause this? ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
