[MOPO] 539 Lobby Cards 1920-1980 at just .99 Cents each
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Title: MoviePosterBid.com Auction Notice MoviePosterBid Home Page| Poster Search | Register To BidSpecial Event Auctions | Info Links | Contact MPB MoviePosterBid.com Auction Notice Many New Auctions This Week Hiya Members of MoviePosterBid.com the internet's only Movie Posters Only auction website. This week we have all kinds of cool things to tell you.*comic-art.com*s second week of .99 Cent NO RESERVE AUCTIONS is underway with 539 Lobby Cards from 1920-1980. It is a fabulous way to add great or cool things to your collection at just .99 cents. each !! There are no reserves on any lobby card in the auction and every card will sell regardless of bid price. As of this writing, 75% of these lobby cards have no bids 90% of the lobby cards with bids are still at only .99 cents each. Among the *GREAT* Lobby Cards listed this week are: House on Haunted Hill -- Classic Vincent Price Attack of the Crab Monsters -- classic 50's horror House of Usher -- Roger Corman + Vincent Price the Gauntlet 1920 -- Harry Morey Elvis Presley lobby cards the Godfather with James Caan the Monkees in the 1966 "Hold On" Born For Glory -- 1935 John Mills 1984 -- the classic SF flick All That Heaven Allows -- Rock Hudson Bambi -- Walt Disney Blondie For Victory -- Penny Singleton the Blob -- 1958 Steve McQueen Star Trek, the Movie AND OVER 500 MORE ALL AT JUST .99 CENTS Back to Top Announcing ComicBidZ For those of you who collect comic books, original art and pulp magazines... ComicBidZ.com We have only just started, but we hope to have a great selection of Comic Books from 1930 to the present, classic Pulps, Original Comic Art Original Pulp Art as well. Toys, Games, Big Little Books, Famous Monsters magazines much much more.. Keep an eye out for all the great items that get listed every day!!! Currently ComicBidZ is signing on sellers and planning a Special Event Auction forJuly and more news will be coming soon concerning that. Meanwhile please sign up join our growing membership. Back to Top PosterSnipe, the Bid Sniper for MoviePosterBid.com The bid sniper for MoviePosterBid is now ready You can find it at PosterSnipe.com. The program, which is available through Paragon Software will cost $10.00 with FREE LIFETIME UPGRADES. . Now you can go out to see a movie have your computer place your bids for you while you enjoy an after movie dinner with friends and know that your bid is secure maybe save a few bucks!!! Back to Top Contact Us Richard Halegua of MoviePosterBid.com ComicBidZ.com Contact Page at MoviePosterBid.com Contact Page at ComicBidZ.com By Mail: MoviePosterBid.com POBox 46454 Las Vegas NV 89114 Some Items Listed : copyright 2006 MoviePosterBid.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely
[MOPO] OFF TOPIC AND UTTERLY FASCINATING PICASSO, BRAQUE AND THE MOVIES
Art When Picasso and Braque Went to the Movies * _RANDY KENNEDY_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/randy_kennedy/index.html?inline=nyt-per) Published: April 15, 2007 IT was _Picasso_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/pablo_picasso/index.html?inline=nyt-per) doing the noninterview interview, decades before Warhol came along to elevate it to an art form. In 1911 a writer for Paris-Journal was asking Picasso about the radically new kind of painting people were calling Cubism, the lightning bolt that had shot forth from his studio and that of his friend Georges Braque. Picasso claimed never to have heard of such a thing. “Il n’y a pas de Cubisme,” he said blithely, and then excused himself to go feed his pet monkey. In part because its creators said so little about it during their lifetime, guarding it like a kind of state secret, Cubism has generated a library’s worth of scholarship, probably more than any other artistic innovation in the last century. The general picture that has emerged is one of Cubism bubbling up out of a thick Parisian stew of symbolist poetry, Cézanne, cafe society, African masks, absinthe and a fascination with all things mechanical and modern, mostly airplanes and automatons. But while almost every aspect of these two artists’ live has been scrutinized — their friends, lovers, favorite drugs, hangouts, hat sizes and nicknames (Picasso called Braque Wilbourg, after Wilbur Wright) — one mutual fascination has been largely overlooked: Both men were crazy about the movies. They were also coming of age artistically in the city of the Lumière brothers, where the modern moviegoing experience had just been born, starting in cafes and cabarets and then moving into theaters, packed with people still in disbelief as they watched a two-dimensional picture plane leap to life. “The cinema was not simply in its earliest infancy,” wrote the critic André Salmon, one of Picasso’s friends and fellow moviegoers. “It was wailing.” For more than 20 years the New York art dealer Arne Glimcher had carried around a theory, more gut feeling than scholarly conjecture, that Picasso and Braque had been seduced by that siren song of the early cinema, and that Cubism, with its fractured surfaces and multiple perspectives, owed much more to the movies than anyone had noticed. Five years ago Mr. Glimcher finally decided to do something about his hunch. He enlisted Bernice Rose, a longtime curator at the Museum of Modern Art and now director of Mr. Glimcher’s gallery, PaceWildenstein, to undertake the daunting academic work of trying to find traces of the silver screen hiding among the endless histories, archives, criticism and art of the early Cubist years. The result of that work, which opens Friday at the gallery’s East 57th Street location, is “Picasso, Braque and Early Film in Cubism,” an exhibition that Mr. Glimcher calls one of the most ambitious in the gallery’s 47-year history. The gallery has gathered more than 40 paintings, collages and other works — none for sale, Mr. Glimcher said — from private collections and from museums around the world, including the Georges Pompidou Center, the Museum of Modern Art, the _Art Institute of Chicago_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/art_institute_of_chicago/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and the Moderna Museet in Stockholm. (To get one Picasso he wanted from a museum in Prague, Mr. Glimcher even parted temporarily with a 1951 _Jackson Pollock_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/jackson_pollock/index.html?inline=nyt-per) he owns, swapping the paintings for the length of the show.) Besides paintings, the exhibition has rounded up rare examples of early cinema’s deus ex machina, the cinematograph: a whirring hand-cranked camera and projector of the kind that Picasso and Braque would have seen, not yet ensconced in a booth but out among the seats, acting as a powerful mechanized metaphor for the artist, absorbing the world through its eye and beaming it back out again. A part of the exhibition space will also be transformed into a simulacrum of an old Belle Époque movie house, where dozens of short movies from the medium’s first years will flicker again, this time through the magic of digital projection. For Mr. Glimcher the show is about personal obsessions in more ways than one. Beginning in the early 1980s — after he had a small film role in his friend _Robert Benton_ (http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=212225inline=nyt-per) ’s “Still of the Night” as an auction bidder (bidding on paintings he himself had lent for the scene) — Mr. Glimcher became, as he said in a recent interview, “completely bitten by the movie thing.” He began producing movies, including “Legal Eagles”
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
when the number of lobby card collectors grows to that of comic book, coin, sports card, and stamp collectorsonly then will we see slabbing of lobby cards. The hobby right now just doesn't have enough collectors to support a company that would slab them. maybe one day, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. but, if I'm wrong and a company DOES start slabbing them soon, I would bet that just a very small percentage would be slabbed and it would be a money losing venture for the slabbing company. personally, I think slabbed cards would be great, I just don't see it happening. David A. Lieberman CineMasterpieces.com 602 309 0500 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
Not enough investors in the hobby for a company to invest in slabbing lobby cards. Slabbing will increase prices and add incremental grading categories that are irrelevant to the hobby. Personally I'm against slabbing. Jim Unshredded Nostalgia Unshredded Nostalgia Jim Episale [EMAIL PROTECTED] 323 south main st Route 9 Barnegat nj 08005 tel: 800 872 9990 tel2:609-660-2626 www.unshreddednostalgia.com -Original Message- From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Hershenson Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway? I notice MoPo is mahty slow as of late (mostly FA or FS posts from people like myself) so I thought maybe I could get a conversation going with this question: Considering that slabbing has taking over just about every other collectible other than ours, and considering that the main proponents of slabbing are major sellers of movie paper, then why HAVEN'T they started slabbing lobby cards (obviously, posters would be much more complicated to do, but lobby cards could easily be slabbed in such a way that the front and back can be completely seen, with just a small strip on the side or bottom or top with the slabbing info, and there could easily be frames that show the card but hide the slabbing info, so they could be displayed great)? Of course, only that company can explain why or when they will start pushing slabbing, but in the meantime, I would like top dealers and collectors here to weigh in with their thoughts on slabbing of lobby cards. 1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un-slabbed ones? Etc. If this happens, it will be the biggest thing to happen to this hobby since my first Christie's auction. If there are any significant number of follow-ups to this post, I will explain why I say this and how I personally feel about slabbing of lobby cards. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 4/14/2007 9:36 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 4/14/2007 9:36 PM Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Come on, Freeman you know you want to slab one of those wonderful 24 sheets you have :-) Rick www.ilovefilms.com - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:09:44 AM Subject: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 See what's free at AOL.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
Good Morning Folks, When I first started collecting and, of course, starting selling, Linen Backing was done by folks that belonged to the country clubFor those that do not understand that analogy, I'm talking about folks that only had the money to do so and the only people that linen backed were those that had expensive item to linen back and of course linen backing was super expensive. Today everyone belongs to the country club and every one linen backs, even the lesser expensive pieces. The cost has gone down considerably. My experience has been that for the most part, many, perhaps not all, buyers would rather have a good, very fine or whatever piece of motion picture history rather than something that has been fixed and, to them, no longer authentic. That, in a nutshell, expresses my feeling about slabbing. I, personally, would rather hold that gorgeous 11 x 14 Laura lobby card in my hands, frayed border and all, then something that certainly appears to be a card, but I can't get at it..and have no idea what has been done to it to fix it. No offence to those of you on the listserv that do Linen Backing. If I had a mint (unused) 1sht of My Darling Clementine a gorgeous 1946 litho; wanted to Keep it, I would have one of you people linen back for me. However, if I were to sell it or buy one.wouldn't consider a Linen Back! Thus, slab away, but I personally would never buy one.My personal thoughts, of course! Take care; stay happy all..Vaughn At 09:41 AM 4/15/2007 -0500, Bruce Hershenson wrote: I notice MoPo is mahty slow as of late (mostly FA or FS posts from people like myself) so I thought maybe I could get a conversation going with this question: Considering that slabbing has taking over just about every other collectible other than ours, and considering that the main proponents of slabbing are major sellers of movie paper, then why HAVEN'T they started slabbing lobby cards (obviously, posters would be much more complicated to do, but lobby cards could easily be slabbed in such a way that the front and back can be completely seen, with just a small strip on the side or bottom or top with the slabbing info, and there could easily be frames that show the card but hide the slabbing info, so they could be displayed great)? Of course, only that company can explain why or when they will start pushing slabbing, but in the meantime, I would like top dealers and collectors here to weigh in with their thoughts on slabbing of lobby cards. 1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un-slabbed ones? Etc. If this happens, it will be the biggest thing to happen to this hobby since my first Christie's auction. If there are any significant number of follow-ups to this post, I will explain why I say this and how I personally feel about slabbing of lobby cards. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Freeman, Thank you for explaining the purpose of comic book slabbing. I could never understand why people would encapsulate their comics, thus rendering them unreadable. It defeats the purpose of having the comic book in the first place. Maybe they will start slabbing 78 RPM records next. I don't want to see slabbed lobby cards, and I don't expect it to happen. I consider poster collecting to be sort of a sickness to begin with. Why make it worse by having people obsess over the exact grading of their items? -rk From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:09:44 -0400 (EDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 . Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
I was surprised to see the slabbing of personal signed check's of famous people. I collect some of these and I don't know how long that has been going on. Mine are all unslabbed. --Tom Pennock ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] A shift in thinking re: linen-backing???
Afternoon everyone, I am getting the impression that some dealers are finding that leaving a poster in it's original state is becoming more preferable to the average poster collector vs. linen-backing. Is this correct? Has there been a noticable shift in thinking and preferences regarding backing? It was my understanding that certainly with folded posters, linen-backing added to the value and marketability of a poster. Thanks! Mike _ Add the Windows Live Messenger NHL Stats Agent to your buddy list and get your stats fix instantly http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/NHL/NHL_Stats_Agent Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking re: linen-backing???
I think there has been a shift in thinking to keeping posters folded. When I started collecting there seemed to be a premium on LB'd posters. I've always had all mine backed. If they are NM, I'd have no restoration done. I think they present better and are simply a nicer product. Hopefully, my the value of my collection hasn't gone down because I've had almost all single-sided posters backed. DBT |-Original Message- |From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike |Davis |Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 12:17 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: [MOPO] A shift in thinking re: linen-backing??? | |Afternoon everyone, | |I am getting the impression that some dealers are finding that leaving a |poster in it's original state is becoming more preferable to the average |poster collector vs. linen-backing. | |Is this correct? Has there been a noticable shift in thinking and |preferences regarding backing? | |It was my understanding that certainly with folded posters, linen-backing |added to the value and marketability of a poster. | |Thanks! |Mike | |_ |Add the Windows Live Messenger NHL Stats Agent to your buddy list and get |your stats fix instantly http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/NHL/NHL_Stats_Agent | | Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com | |___ | How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List | | Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L | |The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
I agree completely with Freeman. Slabbing ruined sports card collecting as far as I'm concerned. What originated as a response to buyer anxiety about the true condition of mail- and internet-ordered items became a wave of speculation and price inflation powered by a symbiotic relationship between Greed and Fear. And the slabbing companies were the biggest winners. They started springing up like weeds, and nobody seemed to question their authority, experience, or exactly who was doing all of this expert unbiased grading. (Some reports: at least in the cards racket it's a bunch of indifferent minimum wage-earning 20 year olds with magnifying glasses, and quotas to fill) Half those companies lost all credibility before long when people started realizing that their qualifications included not much more than knowing where to buy stacks of lucite cases. Slabbing of lobbies doesn't make any sense anyway, except to people who might stand to profit from it. If a baseball card has a tiny ding on one corner, or a comic has some light corner creasing and writing on the back cover, the value can drop by 25-50%. In the case of a lobby card that flaw has almost no bearing on the value. I've bought a few slabbed stills--and I have no confidence that they are necessarily authentic, or that the people grading them know anything about stills. Slabbing is great for lazy sellers, ignorant sellers, and greedy sellers, and for baiting mint only speculators into feeding frenzy, but I would welcome it like I would welcome the plague. --Tom On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Stills before Lobby cards. Dario. Tom Johnson wrote: I agree completely with Freeman. Slabbing ruined sports card collecting as far as I'm concerned. What originated as a response to buyer anxiety about the true condition of mail- and internet-ordered items became a wave of speculation and price inflation powered by a symbiotic relationship between Greed and Fear. And the slabbing companies were the biggest winners. They started springing up like weeds, and nobody seemed to question their authority, experience, or exactly who was doing all of this expert unbiased grading. (Some reports: at least in the cards racket it's a bunch of indifferent minimum wage-earning 20 year olds with magnifying glasses, and quotas to fill) Half those companies lost all credibility before long when people started realizing that their qualifications included not much more than knowing where to buy stacks of lucite cases. Slabbing of lobbies doesn't make any sense anyway, except to people who might stand to profit from it. If a baseball card has a tiny ding on one corner, or a comic has some light corner creasing and writing on the back cover, the value can drop by 25-50%. In the case of a lobby card that flaw has almost no bearing on the value. I've bought a few slabbed stills--and I have no confidence that they are necessarily authentic, or that the people grading them know anything about stills. Slabbing is great for lazy sellers, ignorant sellers, and greedy sellers, and for baiting mint only speculators into feeding frenzy, but I would welcome it like I would welcome the plague. --Tom On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] FA CLOSING! ManW/X-RayEyes3Sht,Donovan'sBrain,Chinatown,LongestDayOS 40 AUCTIONS
Hi, Everyone, I have about 40 auctions closing WITHIN 6 TO 7 HOURS!!!, including some really GREAT, One-Of-A-Kind Vintage Posters and Lobby Cards. Link to all auctions and partial EXPANDED list is below: Thanks for looking! Rick _http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrixposterzQQhtZ-1_ (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrixposterzQQhtZ-1) PLEASE SCROLL DOWN!! MAN WITH THE X-RAY EYES (Horror, 1963) Orig US 3 Sheet NEAR MINT! MAGNIFICENT!! NO HIGHWAY IN THE SKY (James Stewart, Film Noir,1951) Orig US One Sheet REDUCED!! LOOK!! TORMENTED (Supernatural HORROR,1960) Orig US 3 Sheet GREAT HORROR ART! REDUCED!! FIRST MEN IN THE MOON (Harryhausen,1964) Orig US Insert DONOVAN'S BRAIN (Vintage 50's Horror,1953) Orig US One Sheet THE LONGEST DAY (WWII. All-Star Cast,1962) orig US One Sheet FANTASIA (Disney Animation Classic) GREAT STYLE Poster!! MINT!!! OUTLAW JOSEY WALES (Eastwood Western, 1976) 3 Orig US Lobby Cards MONTY PYTHON--- 2 Original Vinage Posters AT PRICE OF ONE!! LOOK!! CORRIDORS OF BLOOD (Horror, Karloff, 1963) 5 Orig US Lobby Cards MESSAGE FROM SPACE (Sci-Fi, Vic Morrow,1978) Orig US Lobby Set GREAT SPACE SCENES NM HUSH, HUSH, SWEET CHARLOTTE (Horror, Bette Davis, 1965) Orig US Lobby Card NM BEST SCENE CHINATOWN (Film Noir, Polanski, Nicholson,1974) Orig Spanish One Sheet GREAT ART!!! TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN (Woody Allen, 1969) Orig Poster RARE STYLE NM!!! LOOK!!! TESS OF THE D'URBERVILLES (Blanche Sweet, 1924) Original VINTAGE SILENT US Pressbook!! DESK SET (Tracy Hepburn,1957) 3 Orig US Lobby Cards REDUCED!!! THE BUCCANEER (Heston, Brynner, 1958 ) Orig STYLE B US 1/2 Sheet REDUCED!!! THE VIRGIN SPRING (Ingmar Bergman Classic, 1959) Orig US Pressbook LOOK!! And I also have about 20 MORE AUCTIONS closing VERY SOON as well! Something for everybody! Thanks again for taking a look! _http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrixposterzQQhtZ-1_ (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrixposterzQQhtZ-1) ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
it is illogical to own a linen mounted poster that looks better in 2007 than it did in the theatre's fingerprint-stained glass showcase in 1944. i have always been willing to pay more for unbacked items. since bruce started this post, i will give him credit for selling tons of one sheets that were backed WITHOUT resoration. i have one sheets from him that were backed, but no restoration so they are NOT offensive last week bruce had all unrestored one sheets, of which they got premium prices because of that condition. i was outbid!!! the week before, some of his restored pieces seem to have sold low. the trend is for unrestored. most of bruce's consignors are probably from the old days, with those collectors backing everything. bruce is one of the few that explain pre-restoration condition, but that seems to be demanded now. of course, i have a few linen pieces, and sell them when i find their unrestored cousin. want a perfect CASABLANCA? buy the repro for ten dollars!!! ALWAYS, UNRESTORED!!! leave the damn stain, its okay, its character. (missing pieces are offensive, but that defect is NEVER cured with added paper.) .and, linen isn't great either how many people complain about their linen having crimps, wrinkles, becoming brittle, yellow, etc. and then, some compalin if there isnt 2 inches of extra linen on each side. ALWAYS..UNRESTORED michael AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?, etc.
Folks.. a little history of slabbing comic books is in order first of all, the true reason for slabbing comic books is a financial reason Slabbing comic began as a response in part to investors definition of investor: a person who has no historical interest in a comic. The item is only regarded as a monetary unit and frequently, the investor has never even read the comics he collects. These investors first started coming into comics from the baseball card business and then the coin business back in the 1970's and we saw a huge exodus of them in the 1980's . naturally because those businesses both have had slabbing for many years, it was only a matter of time before the demand for slabbed comics for a uniform grade came about. Myself, I have never like slabbed comics. I call them coffin books they are dead, you can no longer study them But the main impetus was this.. Investor A goes to the New York Comicon and buys a copy of Superman # 1 in what that particular dealer called Very Fine. The investor pays $50,000 for it, puts it in his briefcase then goes looking for more buys around the room. Then he spies another Supe #1. This dealer, who is a very tight grader has a nicer copy for sale that he calls Fine and is asking $30,000. The investor shows him the book he bought, the dealer says it is Very Good and the investor just lost over $30,000 walking 100 feet from the other dealer's table. The investor promptly tells every dealer to f*ck off, they're all thieves.. and his money never comes into the room again. Obviously this is a serious issue and at first a uniform grading system was put forth, but there was no way to implement this uniform system unless each book was vetted by one person or entity. Enter CGC (Comics Guarantee Company) Now an investor can walk into a convention and if a book is slabbed, graded Very Fine... every dealer in the room will honor that grade and now the unscrupulous seller can no longer sell that VG as VF That part was a good thing. However, the other side is that now, these books have skyrocketed in some areas due to collectors who want (at first) only books that grade 8.5 or better. During that time, books over 9.0 were deemed incredibly rare and worth a premium. Then due to the population report that is easily checked at CGC's website, buyers began to see that 8.5-9.0 were fairly common on some titles/issue and now they began to want only 9.2 and above the prices on 9.0 began to stagnate then drop now the cream is 9.6 and where a 9.2 may demand a premium over price guide value of 1.5X, a 9.6 may demand a premium of 5X and a 9.8 10X. There is a sale of for instance Spawn #1 that is mind boggling.. a 10.0 sold for $5000 while guide mint is only $30, because it was the only copy graded at 10.0 at that time (there are more since, and the price has dropped) Now slabbing is used for issues of all grades as low as 1.5 (good plus) another aspect of slabbing was that Restored comics have tumbled in value (as rightly they should). Nobody wants restored comics anymore. Myself, as a historian I abhor slabbing. Some comics there are only a few copies, no reprints. So how do you research that book if all 3 known copies are slabbed?? It is a conundrum I think if lobby cards get slabbed, it works against the real collector, however where I think slabbing hurts comic historians, there is no such caveat for lobby cards. Like baseball cards and coins, they only have 2 sides and no interiors. Also, there is no argument that a slab prevents an item from incurring new damage due to improper handling. One thing to keep in mind, as a dealer.. a box of unslabbed comics holds 150 books (small size comic box) the same box holds only 35 slabbed comics and weighs more ultimately I do not care for slabbing and I think it is un;likely in posters because as has been said, too few investors and a smaller hobby than comics by a factor of at least 100. I also do not see coin baseball card sellers coming in to posters because of the size of the market the enormous learning curve. Everyone wants to sell Frankenstein, King Kong , Casablanca.. but there aren't enough copies of these posters for them to trade as often as some coins or comics. Superman #1 must be about 1000 copies extant. If we stacked up every 1931 Frankenstein lobby card found it may not be 200 cards. It is a different market Rich== Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
i'm on the other side of this issue. restoration obviously is not unique to posters. great works of art, oil paintings of the masters for example have restoration done form time to time. As to posters i agree smudges and minor tears should be left alone but if i owned an expensive king kong poster missing kongs head i would have it restored rather than try to convince my freinds that this is a great piece because that's how it left the theater. As to linen or paper backing, if you are the type of collector that wants to display and admire ypur posters, which i think most do, backing is the way to go. If most of your posters are in drawers or bags and your thinking about selling them, then let the next owner do what they want. i also think a lobby card is a different animal than a one 1 sheet. Most can be handled without worry of further dammage, but take an old tightly folded one sheet and open it and i'm sure most of you have experienced the frusteration of unfolding it and adding a new tear or extending a tear on a fold line.-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Michael B [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 04/15/2007 04:06PMSubject: Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be "slabbed" anyway? it is illogical to own a linen mounted poster that looks better in 2007 than it did in the theatre's fingerprint-stained glass showcase in 1944. i have always been willing to pay more for unbacked items. since bruce started this post, i will give him credit forselling tons of one sheets that were backed WITHOUT resoration. i have one sheets from him that were backed, but no restoration so they are NOT offensive last week bruce had all unrestored one sheets, of which they got premium prices because of that condition. i was outbid!!! the week before, some of his "restored" pieces seem to have sold low. the trend is for unrestored. most of bruce's consignors are probably from the old days, with those collectors backing everything. bruce is one of the few that explain pre-restoration condition, but that seems to be demanded now. of course, i have a few linen pieces, and sell them when i find their unrestored cousin. want a perfect CASABLANCA? buy the repro for ten dollars!!! ALWAYS, UNRESTORED!!! leave the damn stain, its okay, its character. (missing pieces are offensive, but that defect is NEVER cured with added paper.) .and, linen isn't great either how many people complain about their linen having crimps, wrinkles, becoming brittle, yellow, etc. and then, some compalin if there isnt 2 inches of extra linen on each side. ALWAYS..UNRESTORED michael AOL.com . Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un-slabbed ones? Awful idea, won't have any of mine slabbed, won't buy any already slabbed. RKP Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They insist flaws ADD character. ADD what? Flaws can underline how old a poster is, and in some cases, they may add charm, whatever that subjective word means. But the type of flaws on a poster -- and how many -- will determine whether anything can be ADDED and PUSHED into the plus side of the column while judging the sum total of a poster's sentimental or $$$ value. ** Yet I know people who will die on the hill -- declaring tears, folds, stains, creases aren't really defects -- IF a poster is at least (fill in the blank) years old. Well, I won't display an unrestored insert on paper or linen that's crinkled and looks like it was sprayed with rust water. Rust and about 30 tape stains and crinkle chunks may ADD character -- but at what point do they transform a poster into a large and brittle newspaper with colored inks -- held together by linen with zero touch-ups? The reason I think collecting newspapers and pulp magazines is mostly inexpensive is because the acid has turned 'em into yellowed crap and few exist, defect-free, despite being printed by the thousands. I collect 'em for historical reasons, but I won't display 'em. ** I agree bad restoration of an old poster is more horrific than leaving that same poster untouched. But in my view, there will ALWAYS be a need for great poster restorers. So any effort to start a tidal wave against restoration of movie posters -- will always be a non-starter for me. -koose. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] OFF TOPIC AND UTTERLY FASCINATING PICASSO, BRAQUE AND THE MOVIES
Thank you Freeman. I wish I could get to NYC to see this showing. How wonderful. Toochis - Original Message From: lobby card invasion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:34:05 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] OFF TOPIC AND UTTERLY FASCINATING PICASSO, BRAQUE AND THE MOVIES Thank you Freeman. What a deliciously fantastic story. Truly amazing stuff!! Zeev - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:44 AM Subject: [MOPO] OFF TOPIC AND UTTERLY FASCINATING PICASSO, BRAQUE AND THE MOVIES Art When Picasso and Braque Went to the Movies RANDY KENNEDY Published: April 15, 2007 IT was Picasso doing the noninterview interview, decades before Warhol came along to elevate it to an art form. In 1911 a writer for Paris-Journal was asking Picasso about the radically new kind of painting people were calling Cubism, the lightning bolt that had shot forth from his studio and that of his friend Georges Braque. Picasso claimed never to have heard of such a thing. “Il n’y a pas de Cubisme,” he said blithely, and then excused himself to go feed his pet monkey. In part because its creators said so little about it during their lifetime, guarding it like a kind of state secret, Cubism has generated a library’s worth of scholarship, probably more than any other artistic innovation in the last century. The general picture that has emerged is one of Cubism bubbling up out of a thick Parisian stew of symbolist poetry, Cézanne, cafe society, African masks, absinthe and a fascination with all things mechanical and modern, mostly airplanes and automatons. But while almost every aspect of these two artists’ live has been scrutinized — their friends, lovers, favorite drugs, hangouts, hat sizes and nicknames (Picasso called Braque Wilbourg, after Wilbur Wright) — one mutual fascination has been largely overlooked: Both men were crazy about the movies. They were also coming of age artistically in the city of the Lumière brothers, where the modern moviegoing experience had just been born, starting in cafes and cabarets and then moving into theaters, packed with people still in disbelief as they watched a two-dimensional picture plane leap to life. “The cinema was not simply in its earliest infancy,” wrote the critic André Salmon, one of Picasso’s friends and fellow moviegoers. “It was wailing.” For more than 20 years the New York art dealer Arne Glimcher had carried around a theory, more gut feeling than scholarly conjecture, that Picasso and Braque had been seduced by that siren song of the early cinema, and that Cubism, with its fractured surfaces and multiple perspectives, owed much more to the movies than anyone had noticed. Five years ago Mr. Glimcher finally decided to do something about his hunch. He enlisted Bernice Rose, a longtime curator at the Museum of Modern Art and now director of Mr. Glimcher’s gallery, PaceWildenstein, to undertake the daunting academic work of trying to find traces of the silver screen hiding among the endless histories, archives, criticism and art of the early Cubist years. The result of that work, which opens Friday at the gallery’s East 57th Street location, is “Picasso, Braque and Early Film in Cubism,” an exhibition that Mr. Glimcher calls one of the most ambitious in the gallery’s 47-year history. The gallery has gathered more than 40 paintings, collages and other works — none for sale, Mr. Glimcher said — from private collections and from museums around the world, including the Georges Pompidou Center, the Museum of Modern Art, the Art Institute of Chicago and the Moderna Museet in Stockholm. (To get one Picasso he wanted from a museum in Prague, Mr. Glimcher even parted temporarily with a 1951 Jackson Pollock he owns, swapping the paintings for the length of the show.) Besides paintings, the exhibition has rounded up rare examples of early cinema’s deus ex machina, the cinematograph: a whirring hand-cranked camera and projector of the kind that Picasso and Braque would have seen, not yet ensconced in a booth but out among the seats, acting as a powerful mechanized metaphor for the artist, absorbing the world through its eye and beaming it back out again. A part of the exhibition space will also be transformed into a simulacrum of an old Belle Époque movie house, where dozens of short movies from the medium’s first years will flicker again, this time through the magic of digital projection. For Mr. Glimcher the show is about personal obsessions in more ways than one. Beginning in the early 1980s — after he had a small film role in his friend Robert Benton’s “Still of the Night” as an
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I work in the Rare Coin and Banknote industry (again) and while US coins are slabbed, the rest of the world frowns upon it. In Australia, or at least where I work if we get a slabbed coin we grab a screw driver and smash the slab and card it. I personally wouldnt buy a slabbed card, unless the price was the same as an unslabbed card, then receiveing it id smash the slab and TOUCH the card and smell it and enjoy the PAPER. I dont collect plastic. Investoprs might like slabbed but collectors (I HOPE) want to feel what they love. Ari Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I am totally with David on this.. as an art dealer of many years, restoration for a work of art is imperative to it's survival a movie poster of which there may be very few ( lik ethe Mummy) may have restoration necessitated by the ravages of time Personally I prefer to get unbacked posters, so if I want it, I probably want a nice copy. But 3 sheets. 6 sheets.. absolutely need backing to exhibit them even if they are mint copies. There is a difference between restoration and recreation (as Andrea K pointed out many moons ago when we debated the same issue) But in the case of the Mummy 1 sheet that was majorly damaged, would you advocate leaving it as it was when it was pulled from the sandwich display board that it had been pasted to along with the posters that were pasted over it? I find it hard to believe anyone would say yes as long as restoration is done with the same care that you would like to have your antique car restored, it is a very worthwhile endeavor. When it is done by some hack -of which there are too many- then it is a crime. Rich=== At 04:25 PM 4/15/2007, David Kusumoto wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They insist flaws ADD character. ADD what? Flaws can underline how old a poster is, and in some cases, they may add charm, whatever that subjective word means. But the type of flaws on a poster -- and how many -- will determine whether anything can be ADDED and PUSHED into the plus side of the column while judging the sum total of a poster's sentimental or $$$ value. ** Yet I know people who will die on the hill -- declaring tears, folds, stains, creases aren't really defects -- IF a poster is at least (fill in the blank) years old. Well, I won't display an unrestored insert on paper or linen that's crinkled and looks like it was sprayed with rust water. Rust and about 30 tape stains and crinkle chunks may ADD character -- but at what point do they transform a poster into a large and brittle newspaper with colored inks -- held together by linen with zero touch-ups? The reason I think collecting newspapers and pulp magazines is mostly inexpensive is because the acid has turned 'em into yellowed crap and few exist, defect-free, despite being printed by the thousands. I collect 'em for historical reasons, but I won't display 'em. ** I
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? THUNDERBIRD
i already gave my thoughts today on restoration. why do people seem that they have to compare other artifacts? posters are unique. but, since people compare other hobbies, think about this.. i have a neighbor who has the brightest white 1954 or 55 TBIRD convertible with red leather. he's had it for 3 years. then, last summer, he told meit is a KIT CAR. that means, nothing on it is older than 3 years!!! what's the point? my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? michael AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I agree with Ari I cant see even the remotest possibility that lobby cards will ever be slabbed. Sign up for my regular newsletter on movie memorabilia: http://www.moviemem.com/pages/page.php?mod=accountgo=register Visit my Website: www.moviemem.com All About Australian posters: http://search.reviews.ebay.com/members/johnwr_W0QQuqtZg My eBay Store and Lisitngs: http://myworld.ebay.com/johnwr/ Exhibitions: http://www.moviemem.com/pages/page.php?page=15 JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA PO Box 92 Palm Beach Qld 4221 Australia - Original Message - From: Ari Richards To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? I work in the Rare Coin and Banknote industry (again) and while US coins are slabbed, the rest of the world frowns upon it. In Australia, or at least where I work if we get a slabbed coin we grab a screw driver and smash the slab and card it. I personally wouldnt buy a slabbed card, unless the price was the same as an unslabbed card, then receiveing it id smash the slab and TOUCH the card and smell it and enjoy the PAPER. I dont collect plastic. Investoprs might like slabbed but collectors (I HOPE) want to feel what they love. Ari Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? THUNDERBIRD
I have handled many very fragile posters over the years including large Italian two and four foglio posters. Sometimes they are so fragile that every time you handle them it is almost inevitable that they will be further damaged. I have some Italian posters locked away in a drawer because if I try to open them up they will almost certainly separate more. I will untimately end up linen backing them. It makes perfect sense to me to have these posters linen backed so that they can be easily handled and displayed. I really dont have a problem with linen backing at all providing it is a professional job. I generally prefer as little restoration as possible and I am very happy with all of my linen backed posters. An added bonus is that I am able to use magnets to display them and change them around very easily whenever I feel like it. So, no, I dont get it. Sign up for my regular newsletter on movie memorabilia: http://www.moviemem.com/pages/page.php?mod=accountgo=register Visit my Website: www.moviemem.com All About Australian posters: http://search.reviews.ebay.com/members/johnwr_W0QQuqtZg My eBay Store and Lisitngs: http://myworld.ebay.com/johnwr/ Exhibitions: http://www.moviemem.com/pages/page.php?page=15 JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA PO Box 92 Palm Beach Qld 4221 Australia - Original Message - From: Michael B To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? THUNDERBIRD i already gave my thoughts today on restoration. why do people seem that they have to compare other artifacts? posters are unique. but, since people compare other hobbies, think about this.. i have a neighbor who has the brightest white 1954 or 55 TBIRD convertible with red leather. he's had it for 3 years. then, last summer, he told meit is a KIT CAR. that means, nothing on it is older than 3 years!!! what's the point? my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? michael -- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
Aloha MoPo, David, I could not agree with you more Best, Mark --- David Kusumoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They insist flaws ADD character. ADD what? Flaws can underline how old a poster is, and in some cases, they may add charm, whatever that subjective word means. But the type of flaws on a poster -- and how many -- will determine whether anything can be ADDED and PUSHED into the plus side of the column while judging the sum total of a poster's sentimental or $$$ value. ** Yet I know people who will die on the hill -- declaring tears, folds, stains, creases aren't really defects -- IF a poster is at least (fill in the blank) years old. Well, I won't display an unrestored insert on paper or linen that's crinkled and looks like it was sprayed with rust water. Rust and about 30 tape stains and crinkle chunks may ADD character -- but at what point do they transform a poster into a large and brittle newspaper with colored inks -- held together by linen with zero touch-ups? The reason I think collecting newspapers and pulp magazines is mostly inexpensive is because the acid has turned 'em into yellowed crap and few exist, defect-free, despite being printed by the thousands. I collect 'em for historical reasons, but I won't display 'em. ** I agree bad restoration of an old poster is more horrific than leaving that same poster untouched. But in my view, there will ALWAYS be a need for great poster restorers. So any effort to start a tidal wave against restoration of movie posters -- will always be a non-starter for me. -koose. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
[MOPO] Fwd: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
Answers: 1. Yes 2. No (I don't collect lobby cards ... yet) 3. Yes Reasoning: It is noted that after acceptance of slabbing of other collectibles was generally accepted, the respective hobbies were strengthened / stabilized, and values increased gradually (or dramatically in some cases) for obvious reasons: Independent grading eliminated subjective descriptions Top grades were able to establish rarity After time, certain examples were realizing escalating prices that were publicized in trade publications. In turn, major / national media picked up some stories, which drew interest from otherwise uninterested parties, i.e., Joe Six-pack ... and it played out from there. We all know that movie paper is much rarer than comics for several reasons (as stated before in other discussions), but does not seem to attract as many collectors. Will slabbing be a saving grace and bring 'em in? I dunno. If so ... hold on, cuz it will be 1 helluva ride. BTW ... should it happen, title cards will be THE commodity. ad --- Bruce Hershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:41:18 -0500 From: Bruce Hershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway? To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I notice MoPo is mahty slow as of late (mostly FA or FS posts from people like myself) so I thought maybe I could get a conversation going with this question: Considering that slabbing has taking over just about every other collectible other than ours, and considering that the main proponents of slabbing are major sellers of movie paper, then why HAVEN'T they started slabbing lobby cards (obviously, posters would be much more complicated to do, but lobby cards could easily be slabbed in such a way that the front and back can be completely seen, with just a small strip on the side or bottom or top with the slabbing info, and there could easily be frames that show the card but hide the slabbing info, so they could be displayed great)? Of course, only that company can explain why or when they will start pushing slabbing, but in the meantime, I would like top dealers and collectors here to weigh in with their thoughts on slabbing of lobby cards. 1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un-slabbed ones? Etc. If this happens, it will be the biggest thing to happen to this hobby since my first Christie's auction. If there are any significant number of follow-ups to this post, I will explain why I say this and how I personally feel about slabbing of lobby cards. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] Slabbing is an insult
I am probably the youngest of the collectors on this site (just turned 26) and have collected for the past 10 years since I started going to shows at 16. As a torch carrer in a way I pay close attention to everyone's opinion without speaking much as I'm still learning daily. Now that I work around antique maps and engravings, on both sides of the fence, selling and restoring, my view on restoration is broader than just film paper. I have to agree with rich and david that film art paper is the most unstable, volatile, fragile and imperative paper that needs restoration in any paper collecting I've seen bar none. The obvious nature of film paper deserves the best restoration possible including touch ups and paper/linenbacking to preserve integrity. That being said there is no immediate or growing need for slabbing other than investment sake. Certainly collector's should approach slabbing as an insult. I find that anyone supporting slabbing is either from another hobby (and has made money slabbing) or is only collecting for investment.I haven't seen slabbing in lobby cards...yet I have seen slabbing in baseball cards and talked to dealers who seemed to act above the hobby and didn't care about the paper one bit. that was a big tip off as to WHO and What kind of person would slab.My guess is that the first slabbing we'll see is going to be universal horror lobbies for obvious reasons. I have nothing else to say except that I don't want the prices for unslabbed mint posters to skyrocket when slabbing takes in effect. We should boycott any seller who tries to do this or at least throw their tea in the water... Richard Halegua Comic Art [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am totally with David on this.. as an art dealer of many years, restoration for a work of art is imperative to it's survival a movie poster of which there may be very few ( lik ethe Mummy) may have restoration necessitated by the ravages of time Personally I prefer to get unbacked posters, so if I want it, I probably want a nice copy. But 3 sheets. 6 sheets.. absolutely need backing to exhibit them even if they are mint copies. There is a difference between restoration and recreation (as Andrea K pointed out many moons ago when we debated the same issue) But in the case of the Mummy 1 sheet that was majorly damaged, would you advocate leaving it as it was when it was pulled from the sandwich display board that it had been pasted to along with the posters that were pasted over it? I find it hard to believe anyone would say yes as long as restoration is done with the same care that you would like to have your antique car restored, it is a very worthwhile endeavor. When it is done by some hack -of which there are too many- then it is a crime. Rich=== At 04:25 PM 4/15/2007, David Kusumoto wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
David, I agree as well. I think that linen backing is a real plus for rare posters and even not so rare. Time is not going to help any poster. If you linen back a rare poster it is some what locked into the condition of the time and if restoration is needed it will be less than at a future date would require if not linen backed. When I sold the Grand Hotel through Grey at Heritage, there was no discussion of what would be best to do as far as linen backing. It was just assumed it was a must to linen back even though the original wasn't that bad (a couple of chips and sight damage in one corner). I really don't see what the problem is when a piece meant to be thrown away after a few weeks on display is preserved to last as long as possible. I am a relatively a new small time collector/dealer, but prefer linen backing and it seems that high end collectors do as well. If someone like Doug pipes in and says he wants all natural then I might think differently. I will linen back posters as I can afford and make economic sense and to market them through Bruce, Grey, MPB or my eBay account. Cheers, Brek -Original Message- From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Stewart Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:57 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? Aloha MoPo, David, I could not agree with you more Best, Mark --- David Kusumoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They insist flaws ADD character. ADD what? Flaws can underline how old a poster is, and in some cases, they may add charm, whatever that subjective word means. But the type of flaws on a poster -- and how many -- will determine whether anything can be ADDED and PUSHED into the plus side of the column while judging the sum total of a poster's sentimental or $$$ value. ** Yet I know people who will die on the hill -- declaring tears, folds, stains, creases aren't really defects -- IF a poster is at least (fill in the blank) years old. Well, I won't display an unrestored insert on paper or linen that's crinkled and looks like it was sprayed with rust water. Rust and about 30 tape stains and crinkle chunks may ADD character -- but at
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I would believe. A $100.00 poster in NM state, linen backed wouuld not be worth MORE if backed. So you lose the $$ of the restoration. I believe backing should be only for pieces that need it, ie, they are brittle, fragile, torn, too dirty, etc. same goes for a $1,000 poster, and to back a NM $10 poster is madness, it wont be worth $50 just cos it has some linen glued on. recent auctions have shown that nice condition examples in unrestored state are more desirable than similar backed. My motto: back it if it needs it, but leave the folds alone. Ari - Original Message From: Brek Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Monday, 16 April, 2007 1:33:45 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? David, I agree as well. I think that linen backing is a real plus for rare posters and even not so rare. Time is not going to help any poster. If you linen back a rare poster it is some what locked into the condition of the time and if restoration is needed it will be less than at a future date would require if not linen backed. When I sold the Grand Hotel through Grey at Heritage, there was no discussion of what would be best to do as far as linen backing. It was just assumed it was a must to linen back even though the original wasn't that bad (a couple of chips and sight damage in one corner). I really don't see what the problem is when a piece meant to be thrown away after a few weeks on display is preserved to last as long as possible. I am a relatively a new small time collector/dealer, but prefer linen backing and it seems that high end collectors do as well. If someone like Doug pipes in and says he wants all natural then I might think differently. I will linen back posters as I can afford and make economic sense and to market them through Bruce, Grey, MPB or my eBay account. Cheers, Brek -Original Message- From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Stewart Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:57 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? Aloha MoPo, David, I could not agree with you more Best, Mark --- David Kusumoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? Nope, I don't get it. If I owned your poster, maybe I wouldn't linen-back it either. But if I took your line of reasoning a few steps further -- it sounds like you believe your Indemnity poster on linen with its fold separation touched up would plunge its value below $3,000. Moreover, when you drag into your argument: i could get a mint repro for ten bucks -- this sounds like you think backing and restoring would make your poster look too perfect, like a repro, raising questions about its authenticity. When you ask, what's the point? -- it sounds like you believe that backing and rstoring would undercut the rationale to spend a lot of money for -- and to preserve the value of -- an original poster w/defects that you're proud to own. For you, preserving value and authenticity means this -- don't touch anything. But to me, it also means -- let the natural effects of aging run their course on paper more than 60 years old that you have chosen to DISPLAY. Well, I don't think sophisticated collectors with several thousand dollars to spend -- are unable to spot the differences between a folded, conservatively restored, 1944 Double Indemnity 27x41 poster on linen -- with a $10 glossy 26x39 rolled repro with no fold lines. I know you're passionate with your anti-backing and anti-restoration beliefs, but I think you're too optimistic about the life span of old paper decorated with colored inks. I might be wrong, but this is my view. -koose. Original Message Follows From: Michael B [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? THUNDERBIRD Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:17:52 -0400 i already gave my thoughts today on restoration. why do people seem that they have to compare other artifacts? posters are unique. but, since people compare other hobbies, think about this.. i have a neighbor who has the brightest white 1954 or 55 TBIRD convertible with red leather. he's had it for 3 years. then, last summer, he told meit is a KIT CAR. that means, nothing on it is older than 3 years!!! what's the point? my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? michael Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I am a relatively a new small time collector/dealer, but prefer linen backing and it seems that high end collectors do as well. If someone like Doug pipes in and says he wants all natural then I might think differently. I believe you're correct, Brek. If the high-end market shifts away from backing for one-of-a-kind posters like Grand Hotel, others might follow. I like that you refer to Doug, as in Doug Taylor, our MoPo guy who collects Best Picture posters. Yes, he's a good benchmark, like the Feiertags and Fischlers of our world. We'd all prefer near mint and folded but otherwise pristine. But for some titles, that's like waiting for another Hope Diamond to turn up. Your Grand Hotel was made better and more presentable for display when it was cleaned up and backed. The carping about its condition and graphics became secondary after we saw its hammer price display it's value at that snapshot in time. Original Message Follows From: Brek Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Brek Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:33:45 -0600 David, I agree as well. I think that linen backing is a real plus for rare posters and even not so rare. Time is not going to help any poster. If you linen back a rare poster it is some what locked into the condition of the time and if restoration is needed it will be less than at a future date would require if not linen backed. When I sold the Grand Hotel through Grey at Heritage, there was no discussion of what would be best to do as far as linen backing. It was just assumed it was a must to linen back even though the original wasn't that bad (a couple of chips and sight damage in one corner). I really don't see what the problem is when a piece meant to be thrown away after a few weeks on display is preserved to last as long as possible. I am a relatively a new small time collector/dealer, but prefer linen backing and it seems that high end collectors do as well. If someone like Doug pipes in and says he wants all natural then I might think differently. I will linen back posters as I can afford and make economic sense and to market them through Bruce, Grey, MPB or my eBay account. Cheers, Brek Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
I always find it amusing when someone asks about the preference of linenbacking vs. not and people then immediately jump to the (il-)logical conclusion that because a collector would prefer to buy a poster un-restored if he/she can find it that said collector has zero-tolerance towards backing and restoration. I don't know of a single collector that has zero-tolerance for linenbacked one-sheets. I know many who (all things being equal) prefer non-linenbacked ones though. If linenbacking is so great and necessary, why hasn't a very visible and top collector like Todd Feiertag linenbacked his Freaks 1-sheet or his Bride of Frankenstein 1-sheet? Because for many items it just isn't necessary. Yes, there are a great many posters that would benefit from cleaning, restoration, and linenbacking and doing so would in most cases increase or possibly even greatly increase their value, but it does not mean they would attain the same value as a totally un-restored poster that is already in the same condition the restored one now appears to be in. I prefer unbacked posters myself if/when they are available and yet my favorite poster in my collection is linenbacked, hanging on the wall and I admire it every day. This doesn't make me a hypocrite, just a realist that I wanted to own this poster and was happy to get it any way I could. If the opportunity ever presents itself and I can find a nice condition un-backed one I will happily upgrade. Sean Linkenback Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
yep 100% with Sean. Although his tastes are champaigne and mine are beer. Ari - Original Message From: Sean Linkenback [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Monday, 16 April, 2007 3:15:30 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? I always find it amusing when someone asks about the preference of linenbacking vs. not and people then immediately jump to the (il-)logical conclusion that because a collector would prefer to buy a poster un-restored if he/she can find it that said collector has zero-tolerance towards backing and restoration. I don't know of a single collector that has zero-tolerance for linenbacked one-sheets. I know many who (all things being equal) prefer non-linenbacked ones though. If linenbacking is so great and necessary, why hasn't a very visible and top collector like Todd Feiertag linenbacked his Freaks 1-sheet or his Bride of Frankenstein 1-sheet? Because for many items it just isn't necessary. Yes, there are a great many posters that would benefit from cleaning, restoration, and linenbacking and doing so would in most cases increase or possibly even greatly increase their value, but it does not mean they would attain the same value as a totally un-restored poster that is already in the same condition the restored one now appears to be in. I prefer unbacked posters myself if/when they are available and yet my favorite poster in my collection is linenbacked, hanging on the wall and I admire it every day. This doesn't make me a hypocrite, just a realist that I wanted to own this poster and was happy to get it any way I could. If the opportunity ever presents itself and I can find a nice condition un-backed one I will happily upgrade. Sean Linkenback Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] Fwd: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
hey all, in this major question of linen backing , restoring, etc, i wanted to present and ask a question. i recently acquired the poster, for THE UNHOLY THREE (silent, 1925 version), starring lon chaney, sr. it has fold browning (it is large, French panel, 47x63). there is some fold separation..on 2 fold areas... what is the consensus on linen backing, bleaching out (or leaving) the brown fold lines, and doing minor repair on folio holes, etc? i can send a jpeg, to anyone who might have some info..i just realized i cant attach a jpeg to an email to the list. thanks al!! jeff On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:36 PM, David Kusumoto wrote: my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? Nope, I don't get it. If I owned your poster, maybe I wouldn't linen-back it either. But if I took your line of reasoning a few steps further -- it sounds like you believe your Indemnity poster on linen with its fold separation touched up would plunge its value below $3,000. Moreover, when you drag into your argument: i could get a mint repro for ten bucks -- this sounds like you think backing and restoring would make your poster look too perfect, like a repro, raising questions about its authenticity. When you ask, what's the point? -- it sounds like you believe that backing and rstoring would undercut the rationale to spend a lot of money for -- and to preserve the value of -- an original poster w/defects that you're proud to own. For you, preserving value and authenticity means this -- don't touch anything. But to me, it also means -- let the natural effects of aging run their course on paper more than 60 years old that you have chosen to DISPLAY. Well, I don't think sophisticated collectors with several thousand dollars to spend -- are unable to spot the differences between a folded, conservatively restored, 1944 Double Indemnity 27x41 poster on linen -- with a $10 glossy 26x39 rolled repro with no fold lines. I know you're passionate with your anti-backing and anti- restoration beliefs, but I think you're too optimistic about the life span of old paper decorated with colored inks. I might be wrong, but this is my view. -koose. Original Message Follows From: Michael B [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing? THUNDERBIRD Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:17:52 -0400 i already gave my thoughts today on restoration. why do people seem that they have to compare other artifacts? posters are unique. but, since people compare other hobbies, think about this.. i have a neighbor who has the brightest white 1954 or 55 TBIRD convertible with red leather. he's had it for 3 years. then, last summer, he told meit is a KIT CAR. that means, nothing on it is older than 3 years!!! what's the point? my DOUBLE INDEMNITY one sheet has no missing pieces anywhere, but does have seam separation. colors are vibrant. it has been framed for 20 years. you can see the imperfections. fair to value it at 3000 plus? i could get a mint repro for ten bucks. get it? michael Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] Fwd: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
Jeff, absolutely linenback that vintage French poster.The acids in the inks on foreign paper can lay waste to the poorly milled paper stock, coupled with the numerous intersecting fold lines all weakend again by age , wear, and acids. So not backing I fear the next to you check on your French treasure...its going to be down to an UHOLY TWO and starring On Chan freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
great read Vaughn! I really wouldn't want my lobbies looking like Dinner table placemats, I am a paper freak, I love the different colors, smells and textures of the years, and do prefer older paper because of its beautiful quality inks and matte finishes. I have bought newer paper because I love the movies or images but after a few days on my display board I just cant handle the glare. Slabbed comics do not appeal to me because if I cant puruse them occassionally then they bring no joy, its not just about the cover art Art or back, or the piece as an investment. I collect many pulp mags and I love thumbing through them, slabbing would make more pieces unattainable for me as a collector and would be a turn off. I received a wonderful Japenese program from a friend of Todd Brownings Freaks and I just couldn't imagine not being able to open it up. Linen Backing, I love a deacidified linen backed poster, with the colors just tits up and popping! and if one is done correctly, I don't hesitate to buy! But you know that really depends on whats available, if there are plenty of them, Ill pass on a backed one, Ha but I am like the Mercedez mechanic who drives a pinto, unless they come that way to me many of mine remain untouched. Susan - Original Message - From: Vaughn K. Mannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUmailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway? Good Morning Folks, When I first started collecting and, of course, starting selling, Linen Backing was done by folks that belonged to the country clubFor those that do not understand that analogy, I'm talking about folks that only had the money to do so and the only people that linen backed were those that had expensive item to linen back and of course linen backing was super expensive. Today everyone belongs to the country club and every one linen backs, even the lesser expensive pieces. The cost has gone down considerably. My experience has been that for the most part, many, perhaps not all, buyers would rather have a good, very fine or whatever piece of motion picture history rather than something that has been fixed and, to them, no longer authentic. That, in a nutshell, expresses my feeling about slabbing. I, personally, would rather hold that gorgeous 11 x 14 Laura lobby card in my hands, frayed border and all, then something that certainly appears to be a card, but I can't get at it..and have no idea what has been done to it to fix it. No offence to those of you on the listserv that do Linen Backing. If I had a mint (unused) 1sht of My Darling Clementine a gorgeous 1946 litho; wanted to Keep it, I would have one of you people linen back for me. However, if I were to sell it or buy onewouldn't consider a Linen Back! Thus, slab away, but I personally would never buy one.My personal thoughts, of course! Take care; stay happy all..Vaughn At 09:41 AM 4/15/2007 -0500, Bruce Hershenson wrote: I notice MoPo is mahty slow as of late (mostly FA or FS posts from people like myself) so I thought maybe I could get a conversation going with this question: Considering that slabbing has taking over just about every other collectible other than ours, and considering that the main proponents of slabbing are major sellers of movie paper, then why HAVEN'T they started slabbing lobby cards (obviously, posters would be much more complicated to do, but lobby cards could easily be slabbed in such a way that the front and back can be completely seen, with just a small strip on the side or bottom or top with the slabbing info, and there could easily be frames that show the card but hide the slabbing info, so they could be displayed great)? Of course, only that company can explain why or when they will start pushing slabbing, but in the meantime, I would like top dealers and collectors here to weigh in with their thoughts on slabbing of lobby cards. 1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un-slabbed ones? Etc. If this happens, it will be the biggest thing to happen to this hobby since my first Christie's auction. If there are any significant number of follow-ups to this post, I will explain why I say this and how I personally feel about slabbing of lobby cards. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.comhttp://www.filmfan.com/ ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL
Re: [MOPO] A shift in thinking, linen-backing slabbing?
Amen, David. Dario. David Kusumoto wrote: ** I grow tired of pupils from the no linen-backing, no restoration school applying their rules to larger art items like movie paper filled with acid. This is a zero-tolerance attitude that feels TOO absolute. If you collect antiquarian hardbacks, comic books or magazines, you can't restore without hurting value. But what good is owning larger movie paper that will crack or crumble to dust even if handled with latex gloves? ** We're not talking about furniture or a Tiffany lamp whose value plunges after its patina is cleaned off or restored. Parchment lasts longer, but it isn't paper. The life span of paper decorated with colored inks is near zero by comparison. As I've said before, for some people, presentation is everything. To me, there's nothing wrong about linen- or paper-backing items that will extend its life and make 'em look better with a few minor touch-ups. Slabbing would drive me out of the hobby because you can't display slabbed posters and it opens up a can of worms about UV and fading and other crap. Besides, Rich is correct. Poster collectors are a tiny bunch that wouldn't fill a nice-sized yacht. It'd take an ocean liner to accommodate the number of comic and coin collectors who live in the USA alone. ** Look at how museum curators in NY or SFO treat their paintings and drawings and even movie paper. In some cases, they're looking at preservation AND restoration. Without restoration, Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl Earring, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Rembrandt's Night Watch would be non-existent today or display with many flakes of pigment missing. There's controversy about restoring frescoes like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel, but less debate about restoring framed art. So when I hear people declare that movie paper restoration is illogical -- I respond with this: IF restoring art on canvas, a material MORE more durable than an acid-filled poster -- is embraced by museum curators, than WHY NOT framed paper as well, so long as it's NOT over done? For ex., at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, there are several three-sheets on display. They're linen-backed and not over painted. At the Academy Awards' corporate offices on Wilshire Blvd., there are a mix of linen-backed/restored and unrestored posters also on display. Some I've seen even look dry mounted on foam core. ** I prefer unrestored paper, but I've got NO problems buying vintage posters backed and touched up so long I know what was done, as now practiced by Bruce and Heritage. Yet some declare sacrilegious -- the practice of de-acidifying, cleaning, backing and conservatively restoring old movie paper. They insist flaws ADD character. ADD what? Flaws can underline how old a poster is, and in some cases, they may add charm, whatever that subjective word means. But the type of flaws on a poster -- and how many -- will determine whether anything can be ADDED and PUSHED into the plus side of the column while judging the sum total of a poster's sentimental or $$$ value. ** Yet I know people who will die on the hill -- declaring tears, folds, stains, creases aren't really defects -- IF a poster is at least (fill in the blank) years old. Well, I won't display an unrestored insert on paper or linen that's crinkled and looks like it was sprayed with rust water. Rust and about 30 tape stains and crinkle chunks may ADD character -- but at what point do they transform a poster into a large and brittle newspaper with colored inks -- held together by linen with zero touch-ups? The reason I think collecting newspapers and pulp magazines is mostly inexpensive is because the acid has turned 'em into yellowed crap and few exist, defect-free, despite being printed by the thousands. I collect 'em for historical reasons, but I won't display 'em. ** I agree bad restoration of an old poster is more horrific than leaving that same poster untouched. But in my view, there will ALWAYS be a need for great poster restorers. So any effort to start a tidal wave against restoration of movie posters -- will always be a non-starter for me. -koose. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway?
you are talking both sides...what is your real position? i am confused by your email.. jeff On Apr 15, 2007, at 10:46 PM, susan olson wrote: great read Vaughn! I really wouldn’t want my lobbies looking like Dinner table placemats, I am a paper freak, I love the different colors, smells and textures of the years, and do prefer older paper because of its beautiful quality inks and matte finishes. I have bought newer paper because I love the movies or images but after a few days on my display board I just cant handle the glare. Slabbed comics do not appeal to me because if I cant puruse them occassionally then they bring no joy, its not just about the cover art Art or back, or the piece as an investment. I collect many pulp mags and I love thumbing through them, slabbing would make more pieces unattainable for me as a collector and would be a turn off. I received a wonderful Japenese program from a friend of Todd Brownings Freaks and I just couldn’t imagine not being able to open it up. Linen Backing, I love a deacidified linen backed poster, with the colors just tits up and popping! and if one is done correctly, I don’t hesitate to buy! But you know that really depends on whats available, if there are plenty of them, Ill pass on a backed one, Ha but I am like the Mercedez mechanic who drives a pinto, unless they come that way to me many of mine remain untouched. Susan - Original Message - From: Vaughn K. Mann To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards going to be slabbed anyway? Good Morning Folks, When I first started collecting and, of course, starting selling, Linen Backing was done by folks that belonged to the country clubFor those that do not understand that analogy, I'm talking about folks that only had the money to do so and the only people that linen backed were those that had expensive item to linen back and of course linen backing was super expensive. Today everyone belongs to the country club and every one linen backs, even the lesser expensive pieces. The cost has gone down considerably. My experience has been that for the most part, many, perhaps not all, buyers would rather have a good, very fine or whatever piece of motion picture history rather than something that has been fixed and, to them, no longer authentic. That, in a nutshell, expresses my feeling about slabbing. I, personally, would rather hold that gorgeous 11 x 14 Laura lobby card in my hands, frayed border and all, then something that certainly appears to be a card, but I can't get at it..and have no idea what has been done to it to fix it. No offence to those of you on the listserv that do Linen Backing. If I had a mint (unused) 1sht of My Darling Clementine a gorgeous 1946 litho; wanted to Keep it, I would have one of you people linen back for me. However, if I were to sell it or buy one.wouldn't consider a Linen Back! Thus, slab away, but I personally would never buy oneMy personal thoughts, of course! Take care; stay happy all..Vaughn At 09:41 AM 4/15/2007 -0500, Bruce Hershenson wrote: I notice MoPo is mahty slow as of late (mostly FA or FS posts from people like myself) so I thought maybe I could get a conversation going with this question: Considering that slabbing has taking over just about every other collectible other than ours, and considering that the main proponents of slabbing are major sellers of movie paper, then why HAVEN'T they started slabbing lobby cards (obviously, posters would be much more complicated to do, but lobby cards could easily be slabbed in such a way that the front and back can be completely seen, with just a small strip on the side or bottom or top with the slabbing info, and there could easily be frames that show the card but hide the slabbing info, so they could be displayed great)? Of course, only that company can explain why or when they will start pushing slabbing, but in the meantime, I would like top dealers and collectors here to weigh in with their thoughts on slabbing of lobby cards. 1) Would you like to see it happen? 2) If it does, do you anticipate you would have some or all of your collection/inventory slabbed? 3) Would it make you more likely to buy slabbed items over un- slabbed ones? Etc. If this happens, it will be the biggest thing to happen to this hobby since my first Christie's auction. If there are any significant number of follow-ups to this post, I will explain why I say this and how I personally feel about slabbing of lobby cards. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In
