[Mpls] Fwd: Park Board Ears/Property Tax Fears/Redistricting Jeers/Questions Pending
Forgot to sign: Keith Reitman NearNorth --- Begin Message --- Keith says; I asked; no answer. May I ask again to gain clarity? Subj: Re: [Mpls] City budget:another year of raising taxes/and obfuscating Date: 8/11/02 7:14:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mailto:PennBroKeith";>PennBroKeith To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/10/02 6:21:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > He did propose a tax increase, which we all knew was coming. Without an > increase they couldn't fund some of their obligated employee expenses. One > thing that you need to remember is that the City's portion of your entire > property tax bill is quite low. The greater portion (about 50%) is the > school portion. Therefore, the increase he's talking about does not mean an > > increase in your bottom line, just the amount attributed to the value of > your > home - and part of that is the natural increase due to the increase in the > value of your home. > Keith says; Pardon me, I have read this paragraph over ten times and do not understand it as yet. Though it sounds like double talk to me, I am positive that was not the intent of the writer. She knows, and cites the school portion, "about 50%". But leaves out the City portion; a relevant figure here. She acknowledges that, "He did propose a tax increase, which we all knew was coming." But hastens to suggest, "...the increase he's talking about does not mean an increase in your bottom line." OK? And I guess the natural order of creation, "...is the natural increase due to the increase in the value of your home." Increase, increase, but no increase. If there is; that is natural. Say what? I wonder if similar reason and clarity was manifest in Mpls. Redistricting meetings in which Miss Collier participated? Those outcomes are headed for a court hearing. Keith Reitman NearNorth Subj: Re: [Mpls] Park Board override/Listening Disorder common DT Date: 8/14/02 9:36:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mailto:PennBroKeith";>PennBroKeith To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/14/02 8:16:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Congratulations to Vivian and John for doing the right thing. A 7-2 vote > indicates to me that the seven certainly haven't been listening to the > citizens. Can't wait for the next election! My Commissioner was one voting > > yes. I have always had a lot of respect for Bob, but this vote means I > cannot vote for him the next time - should he decide to run. > > Karen Collier > Linden Hills > Keith says; Is this the same Karen Collier who was a member of the Redistricting Commission? Not that long ago I spoke against a gerrymandered City Ward map at the big public hearing DT, as did dozens of people crowded into that large hearing room. Hundreds more angry citizens waited for hours and left without an opportunity to speak against the plan that is now in the courts. After all the testimony against this bad plan, commission members cravenly approved there creation. I would judge that these commission members, too, "...certainly haven't been listening to the citizens" who banged on the doors at City Hall that evening. Keith Reitman NearNorth --- End Message ---
Re: [Mpls] Banning dogs by breed
"Emilie Quast" wrote: > I'd rather see a "One bite and you're out" law for animals. One bite > should result in euthanasia. > Chris responds: Ah yes, otherwise known as the "one free mauling per dog" law. Terrific. Chris Beckwith Ward 6 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Park Board Ears/Property Tax Fears/Redistricting Jeers/Questions Pending
Keith says; I asked; no answer. May I ask again to gain clarity? Subj: Re: [Mpls] City budget:another year of raising taxes/and obfuscating Date: 8/11/02 7:14:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mailto:PennBroKeith";>PennBroKeith To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/10/02 6:21:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > He did propose a tax increase, which we all knew was coming. Without an > increase they couldn't fund some of their obligated employee expenses. One > thing that you need to remember is that the City's portion of your entire > property tax bill is quite low. The greater portion (about 50%) is the > school portion. Therefore, the increase he's talking about does not mean an > > increase in your bottom line, just the amount attributed to the value of > your > home - and part of that is the natural increase due to the increase in the > value of your home. > Keith says; Pardon me, I have read this paragraph over ten times and do not understand it as yet. Though it sounds like double talk to me, I am positive that was not the intent of the writer. She knows, and cites the school portion, "about 50%". But leaves out the City portion; a relevant figure here. She acknowledges that, "He did propose a tax increase, which we all knew was coming." But hastens to suggest, "...the increase he's talking about does not mean an increase in your bottom line." OK? And I guess the natural order of creation, "...is the natural increase due to the increase in the value of your home." Increase, increase, but no increase. If there is; that is natural. Say what? I wonder if similar reason and clarity was manifest in Mpls. Redistricting meetings in which Miss Collier participated? Those outcomes are headed for a court hearing. Keith Reitman NearNorth Subj: Re: [Mpls] Park Board override/Listening Disorder common DT Date: 8/14/02 9:36:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mailto:PennBroKeith";>PennBroKeith To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/14/02 8:16:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Congratulations to Vivian and John for doing the right thing. A 7-2 vote > indicates to me that the seven certainly haven't been listening to the > citizens. Can't wait for the next election! My Commissioner was one voting > > yes. I have always had a lot of respect for Bob, but this vote means I > cannot vote for him the next time - should he decide to run. > > Karen Collier > Linden Hills > Keith says; Is this the same Karen Collier who was a member of the Redistricting Commission? Not that long ago I spoke against a gerrymandered City Ward map at the big public hearing DT, as did dozens of people crowded into that large hearing room. Hundreds more angry citizens waited for hours and left without an opportunity to speak against the plan that is now in the courts. After all the testimony against this bad plan, commission members cravenly approved there creation. I would judge that these commission members, too, "...certainly haven't been listening to the citizens" who banged on the doors at City Hall that evening. Keith Reitman NearNorth ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Residency
The incentive programs were a major bust. For those who took advantage of them, most took advantage of us: by taking the money for a house inside the city limits, then failing to maintain it as their primary residence, renting them out or selling them - all the while keeping their households in their cozy suburban conclaves. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul -- "He who knows the precepts by heart, but fails to practice them, Is like unto one who lights a lamp and then shuts his eyes." --Nagarjuna > Subject: Re: [Mpls] Residency > > Having public servants work in the municipality they serve is a good idea. > However it should be by choice not by mandate. I recall vaguely some incentive > programs that helped police officers (and/or firemen) buy houses in the city. > Agree with earlier letter that an arbitrary restriction would limit the talent > pool. Didn't we run into that problem with the 911 operator system a while > back? > > -Mike Hess, Kingfield > (disclosure: Not I nor anyone in my family would be affected by a residency > requirement) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] residency/Demagogic tool against property owners
In a message dated 8/26/02 11:54:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Many of us felt a great deal of anger and resentment when the residency idea > came up. First, it presumed that because an employee doesn't live in the city, > we therefore don't care about our jobs; don't care about the community we > work in; don't care about the residents of this city and the problems we face; > and that we are not professional enough, and don't have enough integrity to > do our jobs to the best of our abilities. Believe me, that vast majority of > us do care. Keith says; Many landlords agree; CCP/Safe demonized "absentee landlords" for so many years; some say the unfair and disingenuous treatment continues from DT. Peculiar that the residency issue that disturbed so many city employees didn't sensitize them against cheap shots at landlords who commuted in to their property/jobs. The cheap shots were not cheap. CCP/Safe was all too often unwilling to work with property owners to solve urban crime problems that washed up on urban porches. Blaming the landlord and closing the buildings speeded urban disinvestment, and housing demolition. The trail of tears to the shelter we should name SSB Boulevard. It has become a super highway for the building trades unions and small, most exclusively White, construction companies from the suburbs and beyond. Yes, I say make the Absentee Safe Department shiver; maybe then they will learn compassion and understanding beyond the impact on their narrow, petty, self interest in their jobs. (Though some now may have evolved) Maybe then they will understand our narrow, petty, self interest in our jobs; The rental property we secure, preserve, restore, and provide to the public for homes and business. Keith Reitman NearNorth ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lake Street Highway
According to the highway "experts"- a old lady in St. Paul can make it across the wide street, so a parent carring large bags, one baby and two small kids can make it too... this will be a highway not a street. P to that. Becky Olson Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Developer's use of prefab homes raises Minneapolis
On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 05:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Land is cheaper in poor neighborhoods, so more lots for housing for the > poor can be bought with the same amount of money. I think some people are missing the fact that this developer is not a charity but a business. Everyone likes to talk about affordable housing but who can afford to subsidize it? I've been researching being a landlord, and it isn't easy to make a profit on single-family housing or duplexeseven fourplexes have to be well managed to be profitable. The comments about the new housing turning into a slum property is pure speculation. If the renters decided to take care of the property then the burden of paying for costly maintenance wouldn't weigh so heavily on the property owner (remember, these are NEW homes). Turning a profit on "affordable" housing is quite difficult. This developer is taking an interesting angle by having a lot of bedrooms per unit and finding families (probably immigrants) that are large enough to support the rent. I'd call that an innovative solution to the problem of affordable housing for these families. -Michael Lomker North Loop ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MCDA and neighborhood activist opposition to manufactured housing
I forgot my socialist's handbook to urban planning at home, but I imagine Mr. Sittko's preferable alternative is to spend large sums of government money (see MCDA efficiency at producing housing units in the McKinsey report) to buy these properties and build large owner-occupied homes that wouldn't sell in that neighborhood if a private developer had to foot the bill. It does seem quite sneaky, doesn't it, for one private party to actually sell their property to another private party, who then in turn builds something that is popular with consumers, but doesn't necessarily have the blessing of everyone else in the neighborhood? And to think that apparently this is all done while adhering to all applicable state and city housing and zoning codes. What an outrage! Paul Lambie Former Lowry Hill resident Well Craig has one thing right. His 6th point is right on. See it = below. =20 I know the Harrison group is working hard on this specific issue and the = near term point of contention is that many of us don't want the newest = go-getter from the future-slum-lords-of-America throwing us a hurdle = before we can get our work done. The problem for us is that these projects are simply great financially = for those who have the overhead. Small upfront payment they can probably finance ..and cheaply=20 Inexpensive upkeep..manufactured home with no basement or garage and = renters who are not in a position to "rock the boat."=20 Goverment deposits the section 8 dollars into the landlords account = monthly Now layer in deferred maintenance...It is simply not a prescription = for prgress but blight. Think about it. If these are so great, let's put 'em in Kenwood and = Lowry Hill. What would that do to bordering property values? Point is you couldn't put one in Kenwood or Lowry Hill. Property values = are too high. Assuming you could fid a lot, the initial investment = collapses the Net Present Value. So like I've said before: These are great financial projects painted as = social progress. Moreover, the arguing against these is sometimes = tough. The social progress agrument appears compelling but these = purveyors of progress merely pose as the servant only to become the = master. Doing the right thing isn't always a quick fix. Craig's good point. 6. (Craig) Renters vs. homeowners - If Near North Willard Hay and = Harrison are worried about more rental housing vs. homeowner, they ought = to change their focus. Make the lots desirable to home builders/buyers. Clean up your = crime, streets, parks, and whatever else is stopping mortgage qualified = people from building/buying there. Blaming media coverage is not going to convince = more buyers to move in. ...Hey Harrison, we've got something people want: close in land/lots. If we don't get closer to what we want fast, we may lose them. Think about our current concerns with the Queen Care Manor; It could be = just a precursor. Jason Sittko Harrison __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Kids walking to school and a new bus route
Kids walking to school: I applaude your efforts to develop safe walking paths for children who will be going to school in their own neighborhood this year. I hope you take the crime rates along those into consideration the crime rates along those paths. The Whittier Alliance and the Phillips Neighborhood Block Club Network formed a partnership to do a "Safe Streets for Kids" program a few years ago. There were a few components to the program. 1. Identify the safest route to and from school and after school activities> Chose the marked passages based on areas with the largest concentration of children. The routes were to be identified with signs so kids would know they were on a path where people would look out for them. 2. Solicit McGruff houses along those paths to ensure children had a safe place to go should trouble occur. 3. Educate area schools, parks and agencies regarding the program. For many reasons this program failed. However, I still think it is a good idea and a necessary component if more kids will be walking to and from school. A new bus route: I think there might be another way of getting people to use the bus more often. Have a bus route that goes down 26th Street from Irving Av. or something like that to Minnehaha Av. or so in Longfellow and back down 28th st. The turn-around could be Minnehaha Mall. That way people who live in uptown can easily access Minnehaha Mall with Target, Rainbow, Cub and the other mall stores and people who live in Longfellow could access "Eat Street", Lyn-Lake and Uptown with relative ease. The people who live in Whittier and Phillips would benefit because they can get to either Uptown or Minnehaha Mall without have to go to Franklin or Lake Street. Just a thought! Barb Lickness Whittier = "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lake Street Highway
Barb, You bring up what is, to me, the most salient point related to the expansion of Lake Street as well of I35W. The projects are simply about moving more cars. No one has asked whether or not there is a limit to the number of cars one can move through neighborhoods before the neighborhood is effectively destroyed. Mature, healthy adults may find navigating many areas on bikes or as pedestrians to be unpleasant and difficult even in good weather. These healthy community-building, nonpolluting forms of transportation are being made impossible for the elderly, children, and people with a variety of disability issues. According to folks at the CDC and World Health organization, "active transportation" is vital to our individual health, as well as to community health. I will volunteer for the "Safe Routes to School" program in Minneapolis this year, which will encourage students to walk or bike to and from school. Doctors are concerned about obesity, diabetes, depression and other illnesses on the rise amoung American children, and so this program (like the CDC's "Active Community Environments") has been initiated nationwide. Urban transportation systems are making us and our children sick. Even in simple economic terms, this makes no sense. We are paying to poison ourselves and lock ourselves into "passive" forms of transportation, and then paying the medical bills to try to get well again. My point is this: active transportation (pedaling and biking) must be seen as the foundational form of transportation for people living and working anywhere in the metro area. Public transportation needs to be designed to minimize the need for car commuting within the city. Cities and neighborhoods need to take an active role to put "smart growth" design into place, so that people can walk or bike to buy groceries and such, and so that folks can use public transportation for most longer trips in town. Urban transportation design in Minneapolis currently seems to operate on a model that is about 50 years old, and which puts priority on automobiles, not people or communities or neighborhoods. Here are some foundational urban planning questions regarding the Lake Street and I35W expansion plans: ***How many cars can be moved around the city before civic life is destroyed? ***How many cars can be moved around in cities before the environment is so degraded that our children will inherit a place not worth having? ***How does our car addiction contribute to problems of global warming and pollution? ***How can we create an urban environment which enriches the lives of the people who live and work in it while at the same time enriching (as opposed to degrading) the local and global environment? We should note that the I35W expansion plans are going to cost about 150 million dollars. Why not step back and design a 150 million-dollar plan to help people move around town without driving everywhere? Sure it would take vision and creativity, but why not? We have plenty of knowledge and technology to apply; we need to change our urban design paradigm. The air, water and soil of Minneapolis are not an infinite resources to be consumed, nor are they infinite sinks into which to dump pollution. The existing people and neighborhoods of Minneapolis are not disposable, inorganic objects to be chopped and shuffled for the sake of pushing ever-increasing numbers of cars through our city. Design for tomorrow will put people, active transportation, and ecological integration of urban life first. We need more discussion of how our kids can get to school in a healthy, safe, active fashion. We need more discussion about to promote active transportation as foundational activity in urban life. We need more discussion about how to recover and create walkable, bikeable neighborhoods (which actually existed in some places) and to link them in ways which are best for our urban region as a whole. I encourage list members to check out Time magazine's issue preparatory to the Johannesburg Earth Summit for more ideas and information. Also check out the report on "The Asian Brown Cloud" there (and on CNN online) for a little taste of what our collective denial regarding the environment is bringing us. We can choose to create a better way than the outdated models rooted in "petroleum- and car-culture" offer. We humans were made to walk, run, dance and sing...old and young togethereven in the city. -Gary Hoover King Field In a message dated 8/26/02 12:06:36 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes (in part): I haven't even brought up the issue of how this impacts children. My son's bus stop is scheduled for 31st and Grand. We live at 27th and Grand. That would mean he would have to walk four blocks and cross Lake Street to get to his bus stop. Thankfully, I take him to school and my husband picks him up each day so he won't have to take the bus. But, for those kids that do, crossing Lake Street during ru
[Mpls] Why is MCDA/Activist opposed (Craig Miller) and I guess Paul L. too.
Well Craig has one thing right. His 6th point is right on. See it below. I know the Harrison group is working hard on this specific issue and the near term point of contention is that many of us don't want the newest go-getter from the future-slum-lords-of-America throwing us a hurdle before we can get our work done. The problem for us is that these projects are simply great financially for those who have the overhead. Small upfront payment they can probably finance ..and cheaply Inexpensive upkeep..manufactured home with no basement or garage and renters who are not in a position to "rock the boat." Goverment deposits the section 8 dollars into the landlords account monthly Now layer in deferred maintenance...It is simply not a prescription for prgress but blight. Think about it. If these are so great, let's put 'em in Kenwood and Lowry Hill. What would that do to bordering property values? Point is you couldn't put one in Kenwood or Lowry Hill. Property values are too high. Assuming you could fid a lot, the initial investment collapses the Net Present Value. So like I've said before: These are great financial projects painted as social progress. Moreover, the arguing against these is sometimes tough. The social progress agrument appears compelling but these purveyors of progress merely pose as the servant only to become the master. Doing the right thing isn't always a quick fix. Craig's good point. 6. (Craig) Renters vs. homeowners - If Near North Willard Hay and Harrison are worried about more rental housing vs. homeowner, they ought to change theirfocus. Make the lots desirable to home builders/buyers. Clean up your crime, streets, parks, and whatever else is stopping mortgage qualified people frombuilding/buying there. Blaming media coverage is not going to convince more buyers to move in. ...Hey Harrison, we've got something people want: close in land/lots. If we don't get closer to what we want fast, we may lose them. Think about our current concerns with the Queen Care Manor; It could be just a precursor. Jason Sittko Harrison
[Mpls] schools stuff
Not much response to either the list manager's post on the City Pages interview with Carol Johnson nor Ann Berget's comment about the lives of kids near the Jordan melee. I commend the City Pages package (including the on-line-only transcript) to anyone who wants to get a sense of issues facing Minneapolis schools and our good fortune in having as superintendent a person who looks far beyond sound bites. Britt Robson posed tough questions and Johnson answered well. Ms. Berget's comments argue for another visit to the fanciful idea of a political party for children. What would such a party be demanding in the name of those kids in harm's way? Dennis Schapiro Linden Hills (work Hawthorne, a few blocks from 26th & Knox) Minneapolis Board of Education ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] disturbance coverage inthe Pioneer Press this weekend
'I was trying to help someone,' says rescuerAmong the cascade of bottles, rocks and bricks that fell in Minneapolis' Jordan neighborhood, two men shepherded people caught up in the melee to safety.( BY MARA H. GOTTFRIED and PHILLIP PIÑA, Pioneer Press, 08/24/2002 03:01 AM CDT) Minneapolis calls for calmMinneapolis officials urged calm on Friday and planned heightened security in North Minneapolis in the aftermath of a melee that erupted after an 11-year-old boy was accidentally wounded by a police bullet the night before.( BY AMY MAYRON, JUDITH YATES BORGER, PHILLIP PIÑA and DAVID HAWLEY, Pioneer Press, 08/24/2002 03:01 AM CDT) Journalists suddenly embroiled in the storyWhen anger bubbled over in Minneapolis' Jordan neighborhood Thursday night, some journalists became part of the news. In the hours after the police shooting, at least six people were injured, including journalists. It's an uncomfortable position for journalists, whose training is to cover a story without becoming involved.( BY AMY BECKER, Pioneer Press, 08/24/2002 03:01 AM CDT) In neighborhood, emotions are mixedAngry. Scared. Emboldened to fight harder against drug dealing. The mood in Minneapolis' Jordan neighborhood Friday was a simmering stew of emotions.( BY JUDITH YATES BORGER, Pioneer Press, 08/24/2002 03:01 AM CDT) Roots of tension go deepMinneapolis is wound tight after three back-to-back police shootings involving black people this month. And police and community leaders fear a snap from any faction at any moment.( BY AMY MAYRON, Pioneer Press, 08/25/2002 03:01 AM CDT) 'Minister of peace' calls in Minneapolis neighborhoodThe Rev. Shane Price was the last minister to leave the Sunday-morning prayer service in North Minneapolis, and he was among the first people to whom city leaders turned Thursday night when violence erupted in the same neighborhood.( BY LISA DONOVAN, Pioneer Press, 08/26/2002 03:01 AM CDT) Judith Yates Borger Staff Reporter Minneapolis Bureau St. Paul Pioneer Press 612 338-8198 Cell: 651 503-0162 spacer.gif Description: GIF image
Re: [Mpls] Re: Banning Dogs by Breed.
Regarding banning pit bulls... I am quite certain there are state laws that prohibit banning dogs based on a specific breed, so the city would not be able to implement such a ban without changing state law first. That's because, as noted, not all pit bulls are viscious, not all Rottweilers are aggressive.We can't discriminate be breed. There are, however, specific criteria that will designate a "dangerous dog," and a dog of any breed can receive that designation if it has demonstrated specific behaviors. I believe this is implemented through Minneapolis Animal Control. If a dog is found to be a "dangerous dog," the owner is then expected to take precautions to protect the public from the dog, like wearing a muzzle when it is out in public, or maintaining a fence that is a certain height in the yard, for example. If these practices are not followed, the dog could ultimately be taken from the owner. This process is not an easy one, however, and must be supported by facts, witnesses, etc. The truth is, there are very few "bad dogs" and unfortunately, far too many bad owners. When dogs are neglected, abused, or trained to be aggressive, both the dogs and the general public end up paying the price. And who owns these dogs? Probably people who have been neglected, abused, and trained to be aggressive. The solution here is far more complicated than simply banning a certain breed of dog. Jean Johnson East Harriet --- phaedrus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A few days ago I knew little to nothing about pit > bulls, but a guy who lives a few houses down owns > two > of them and they're really nice dogs, so the idea of > banning the breed felt really off to me. > > I did send a private email to the original author > but > since the is still going with a fair amount of > support, I spent some time and did some research > which > ended up reinforcing my opinions. > > In > http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-August/015828.html > - - - Chris B. wrote (excerpt) - - - > First, let's blow a fallacy out of the water: > There seems to be an unspoken, rather naive faith > in the syllogism that because dogs make good pets > and pit bulls are dogs, pit bulls therefore make > good pets. > - - - end excerpt - - - > > That would be a fallacy if that were the thought > process taken. > > The reason I believe that pit bulls can make good > pets > is I know pit bulls who are good pets. The two pits > that live a few doors down from me are great dogs > and > a lot of fun to play with and watch play. They're > socialized and well behaved, the owner keeps them on > a > leash or indoors, and they are no more prone to an > unprovoked attack than any other dog. > > Am I more careful with them than I would be with a > beagle? Yes, just like I'm more careful with a dog > than with a cat - if they get nervous or angry, they > can do more damage. I'm also more careful around > cars > than around bicycles. > > That's part of the reason why pit bulls are so > focused > on - due to their strength, if they attack, they are > easily able to cause major injury or death. > Additionally, they have become popular with people > who > tend to want a dog for intimidation purposes (often > these people will also intentionally mistreat the > dog > to make them mean). Rottweilers have suffered from > similar unethical treatment. > > While doing research, I came across something called > the American Temperament Test Society which > evaluates > canine temperament and has statistics by breed. > Failure is recognized when a dog shows unprovoked > aggression, panic without recovery, or strong > avoidance. American Pit Bull Terriers and American > Staffordshire Terrier (two of the more common pit > bull > breeds) were both heavily tested and passed 82.x% of > the time beating Australian Shepherds, Beagles, > Border > Collies, Bull Dogs, Chihuahuas, Cocker Spaniels, > Dalmatians, German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, > Pomeranians, and Toy Poodles among many more. > (http://www.atts.org/stats1.html) > > - - - Chris B. wrote (excerpt) - - - > Concerning the claim that if we banned pit bulls, > we should in turn ban dobermans, rottweilers, etc, > or God help us, that we can't ban pits bulls > because we don't even really know what a pit bull > is - this is nothing but a silly rhetorical shell > game. The CDC seems to have no trouble telling us > which breed leads statistically in the number of > attacks on human beings. (No guesses there!) > - - - end excerpt - - - > > Based on my research, it's not so cut and dry. > > According to dog-bite-law-center.com, 44% of > reported > dog bites are from German Shepherds. The CDC > researched dog-bite-related fatalities. Between 1979 > and 1996, Pit Bulls did account for the highest > number > of fatalities (60 in the United States over the 17 > years), but it is interesting to note that in the > final years of the study (1993 - 1996), Rottweilers > accounted for more than Pit Bulls did (20 were from
[Mpls] Developer's use of prefab homes raises Minneapolis
It appears to me that on one side of the debate are neighborhood activists who want to improve the long term sustainability and livability of their neighborhoods. Most of these people feel that having an extremely high percentage of residents in poverty is a contributing factor holding back neighborhood revitalization. I am fairly sure that most of these people also believe that there are governmental programs and policies that contribute to the situation. On one of the other sides of the debate are advocates for the poor, who seem to want to get as many housing units up and available as soon as possible and where ever possible. These people sometimes accuse the neighborhood improvement activists as being racist or classist. Wanting to revitalize one's neighborhood is an honorable goal. Wanting to get housing for the poor is an honorable goal. This is a tough issue. Land is cheaper in poor neighborhoods, so more lots for housing for the poor can be bought with the same amount of money. Richer neighborhoods, and suburbs, are better equipped and organized to oppose housing for the poor. I would guess that property with housing for the poor may reduce property tax income for the city greater in a higher value neighborhoods. What do the studies show? Do poor kids growing up in poor neighborhoods have a higher rate of problems than poor kids growing up in richer neighborhoods? Do they suffer higher rates of academic failure, of dropping out of school, of getting into criminal activity, etc? Dave Stack Harrison - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Banning Dogs by Breed.
A few days ago I knew little to nothing about pit bulls, but a guy who lives a few houses down owns two of them and they're really nice dogs, so the idea of banning the breed felt really off to me. I did send a private email to the original author but since the is still going with a fair amount of support, I spent some time and did some research which ended up reinforcing my opinions. In http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-August/015828.html - - - Chris B. wrote (excerpt) - - - First, let's blow a fallacy out of the water: There seems to be an unspoken, rather naive faith in the syllogism that because dogs make good pets and pit bulls are dogs, pit bulls therefore make good pets. - - - end excerpt - - - That would be a fallacy if that were the thought process taken. The reason I believe that pit bulls can make good pets is I know pit bulls who are good pets. The two pits that live a few doors down from me are great dogs and a lot of fun to play with and watch play. They're socialized and well behaved, the owner keeps them on a leash or indoors, and they are no more prone to an unprovoked attack than any other dog. Am I more careful with them than I would be with a beagle? Yes, just like I'm more careful with a dog than with a cat - if they get nervous or angry, they can do more damage. I'm also more careful around cars than around bicycles. That's part of the reason why pit bulls are so focused on - due to their strength, if they attack, they are easily able to cause major injury or death. Additionally, they have become popular with people who tend to want a dog for intimidation purposes (often these people will also intentionally mistreat the dog to make them mean). Rottweilers have suffered from similar unethical treatment. While doing research, I came across something called the American Temperament Test Society which evaluates canine temperament and has statistics by breed. Failure is recognized when a dog shows unprovoked aggression, panic without recovery, or strong avoidance. American Pit Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terrier (two of the more common pit bull breeds) were both heavily tested and passed 82.x% of the time beating Australian Shepherds, Beagles, Border Collies, Bull Dogs, Chihuahuas, Cocker Spaniels, Dalmatians, German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Pomeranians, and Toy Poodles among many more. (http://www.atts.org/stats1.html) - - - Chris B. wrote (excerpt) - - - Concerning the claim that if we banned pit bulls, we should in turn ban dobermans, rottweilers, etc, or God help us, that we can't ban pits bulls because we don't even really know what a pit bull is - this is nothing but a silly rhetorical shell game. The CDC seems to have no trouble telling us which breed leads statistically in the number of attacks on human beings. (No guesses there!) - - - end excerpt - - - Based on my research, it's not so cut and dry. According to dog-bite-law-center.com, 44% of reported dog bites are from German Shepherds. The CDC researched dog-bite-related fatalities. Between 1979 and 1996, Pit Bulls did account for the highest number of fatalities (60 in the United States over the 17 years), but it is interesting to note that in the final years of the study (1993 - 1996), Rottweilers accounted for more than Pit Bulls did (20 were from Rottweilers and 8 were from pit bulls). (http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm) Incidently, I've been randomly attacked by unleashed dogs twice. Both were Shepherds. As to what a Pit Bull is, I believe there are six breeds that are commonly considered Pit Bulls. Boston Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier are the most commonly thought of Pit Bulls. - - - Chris B. wrote (excerpt) - - - So, given the odds, anybody care to wager the house payment on what kind of dog will be cited next time there's a local report about a canine attack? - - - end excerpt - - - Well, I'd guess a animal control/police report would be more factually significant than a media report. I'm not a gambling man, but for a fatal attack, I'd put 50 cents on it being a Rottweiler. For a non-fatal attack, I'd put a dollar on it being a German Shepherd. Of course, German Shepherds and Rottweilers are among the best large dogs available for pets. The breeds that the CDC considers highest risk are Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, Doberman Pinschers, Chow Chow, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. Are you going to ban all of them? Additionally, in attacks leading to fatalities, there is an 8 out of 10 chance that a biting dog is male. (Humane Society of the United States.) Maybe we should just ban males... In http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-August/015838.html - - - Emilie Q. wrote (excerpt) - - - > I'd rather see a "One bite and you're out" la
[Mpls] Rybak to hear report on green city initiatives
Mayor Rybak will receive a progress report from Minneapolis' Environmental Coordinating Team on his Green City Initiatives at Currie Maintenance Center at 3:30 p.m. on Tuesday, August 27. The public is invited to attend to hear the report, along with Mayor Rybak and available City Council Members. Currie Maintenance Center is at 1200 Currie Ave. N. It is two blocks off 1st Ave. on 11th St. N. Laura Sether Office of Mayor Rybak ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MCDA and neighborhood activist opposition to affordable housing.
I had planned to post a message about Sunday's story in the Strib on manufactured housing in North Minneapolis, but Craig Miller seems to have done a pretty good job highlighting the most appalling aspects of the story. www.startribune.com/stories/462/3186295.html I must say that I continue to be absolutely and completely puzzled by the inability of anyone in this city to solve the "affordable housing crisis." Hmmm? I'm sure some of our neghborhood activists have some solutions. Paul LambieFormer Lowry Hill residentDo You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
Re: [Mpls] residency/ Melissa Schmidt Obituary in Lavender
>Many of us felt a great deal of anger and resentment when the residency idea came up. First, it presumed that because an employee doesn't live in the city, we therefore don't care about our jobs; don't care about the community we work in; don't care about the residents of this city and the problems we face; and that we are not professional enough, and don't have enough integrity to do our jobs to the best of our abilities. Believe me, that vast majority of us do care. > >If a city employee truly doesn't give a darn about his/her job or this city, forcing them to live in the city isn't suddenly going to make them exemplary employess. If anything, it will only make their attitudes worse. If an employee of this city is not doing his or her job, it is a disciplinary concern, a management issue. === Don, I think this is a good point. At the same time, I think when the city markets their job openings, I would like to see efforts being made to encourage city residents to apply for the jobs. >At least in my opinion the issues are much larger than where someone lives. >The whole residency discussion misses the real point which is how do we find >ways to improve relations between the police and the community, how do we >reward and reinforce the many city employees - police and otherwise, who are >out there doing their jobs everyday effectively. Most importantly, how do we >get through to those few members of the Minneapolis community, who because of >their criminal behavior are making life miserable for everyone - their >families, neighbors and the police who must respond to those complaints. What >can be done to change that particular dynamic. It is not just residents of Minneapolis who are doing this. This also includes non-residents who come to the city to buy drugs or prostitutes. This bothers me also. Lavender Magazine has an obituary for Melissa Schmidt: http://www.lavendermagazine.com/189/189_news_20.html Eva Eva Young Near North Minneapolis "You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone - not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be." --Article II of the Bill of Non-Rights. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] residency
It's true that several years ago, the city passed an ordinance requiring all new staff to be Minneapolis residents or be prepared to move into the city. It's true that the legislature was lobbied and overturned that ordinance. Because I wasn't a newly hired person, I (and all other existing employees) were exempt from the residency requirement anyway. We did however, have many discussions with residents and fellow employees about the issue of residency. Many of us felt a great deal of anger and resentment when the residency idea came up. First, it presumed that because an employee doesn't live in the city, we therefore don't care about our jobs; don't care about the community we work in; don't care about the residents of this city and the problems we face; and that we are not professional enough, and don't have enough integrity to do our jobs to the best of our abilities. Believe me, that vast majority of us do care. If a city employee truly doesn't give a darn about his/her job or this city, forcing them to live in the city isn't suddenly going to make them exemplary employess. If anything, it will only make their attitudes worse. If an employee of this city is not doing his or her job, it is a disciplinary concern, a management issue. Another way to look at this is from the point of view of the many, many Mpls. residents who commute to other cities/suburbs to work. How would they be expected to react if told that in order to have or keep a job they had to move to that suburb? At least in my opinion the issues are much larger than where someone lives. The whole residency discussion misses the real point which is how do we find ways to improve relations between the police and the community, how do we reward and reinforce the many city employees - police and otherwise, who are out there doing their jobs everyday effectively. Most importantly, how do we get through to those few members of the Minneapolis community, who because of their criminal behavior are making life miserable for everyone - their families, neighbors and the police who must respond to those complaints. What can be done to change that particular dynamic. Don Greeley Crime Prevention Specialist 3rd Precinct CCP/SAFE Minneapolis Police Dept. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Fwd: [Mpls] residency rule
Russell Sasaoka wrote: >For the police department, there used to be such a requirement, but however with far >less people going into law enforcement and other things as well, it's getting harder >and harder to find officers or potential officers willing to live in the area that >they work in. > At some point during the years of police residency requirement, Charlie Stenvig was mayor. Police voting power played a big role in having that happen. Given numerous accounts of Stenvig's lackluster performance as mayor, it may not be such a good idea. >Not only that, but cost of buying a home. However I would have to agree with what >Ms. Lickness stated at the end of her email in regards to the individual and the >level of commitment that a person has. > I don't buy this argument about committment being a factor of of residency. There have been notoriously bad attitudes toward Minneapolis and neighbors on the part of a few resident cops and lovely attitudes by others. A much greater factor, IMHO, is where a person grew up who later became a cop. People from the farms and small towns have an enormous adjustment to make just by living in a city. People coming from Greater Minnesota actually do define themselves as living in the city if they live on the outstate edge of Plymouth, for example. They're going, in many cases, from 300 acres between neighbors to 15 feet or fewer. Their often going from a monoculticulture to a multiculture. (Many towns in Greater MN are all Danes, all Swedes, all Germans, etc.) This is another huge leap because it means jumping from "This is how this is done" to there being at least 60 ways to do something, all contradictory. Some towns around Mpls. have rules that, for some personnel including cops, an employee of the municipality has to live within 15 minutes driving distance of where the employee report to work (Chaska, for one). Maybe that's a clue to a resolution. WizardMarks, Central >__ >Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: >http://e-democracy.org/mpls > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Fwd: [Mpls] residency rule
For the police department, there used to be such a requirement, but however with far less people going into law enforcement and other things as well, it's getting harder and harder to find officers or potential officers willing to live in the area that they work in. Not only that, but cost of buying a home. However I would have to agree with what Ms. Lickness stated at the end of her email in regards to the individual and the level of commitment that a person has. Begin Included Message I always thought Minneapolis police should be required to live in the city as then -like elected officials- they would know and be concerned more with the area they work in. To my observation for a long time, -and as I have been told by police themselves, lots of them just want to put their time in. Not too many of them are trying to tilt at windmills. Sort of a 'Beverly Hills Cop' thing here. There is the issue also of how many miles and how much costs are there for the City in furnishing their ride to work, especially when the drive can be 20 miles or more. It would be complex to change the rule to require police to live in the city when they are as far out as Blaine and likely would have to be done on basis of making the residency rule applicable to those hired after a certain date. I think the same should go for other city employees. And such a rule would help enliven the neighborhoods, -make the stores and cafes prosper. James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls End Included Message Russell Sasaoka Coon Rapids (Formerly of Loring Park) Working in Minneapolis Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
A few points and questions in response to Mr. Rice's last post. 1. My City assessor told me that the taxable market value in Minneapolis is required to be within 95 per cent of actual market value. His name is Patrick Todd. 2. The two appraisals you refer to should be accessible to the public. Most appraisers determine a building's value based on the income that it will generate. Alternatively, they would use "comparables." Where might we find these two appraisals? 3. I called an accountant at one of the largest commercial brokers and managers in Minneapolis. I found out that operating expenses for buildings similar to the Moore building are between $5.00 and $7.50 per square foot (excluding real estate taxes.) This means that at a minimum, the Park Board would be spending $375,000 per year for operations in addition to debt service. 4. Rents are going down, not up. Vacancies abound. Did anyone try to negotiate a more favorable rent with the Park Board's current landlord? $100,000 each year could be easily be saved just by letting employees pay for their own parking - like the rest of us have to. 5. The building needs extensive upgrades. How much does the Park Board intend to spend on rehab and where will that money come from? 6. The City will lose property tax receipts of approximately $100,000 each year. If the property is really worth more than $2.3 million, we will lose MORE in tax receipts. 7. Mayor Rybak made it clear that the Park Board shares the same checkbook with the rest of our City government. No matter how you rationalize this proposed purchase, you are INCREASING DEBT, INCREASING COSTS, and REDUCING THE TAX BASE. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
I'll stand corrected on the assessed value. I wrote that response late at night and that's why I prefaced my comments with "I beieve". As most property owners know the assessor valuation may not reflect the market. And as I commented there was another buyer ready to offer more, but on different terms. The Park Board obtained two appraisals. The lowest was for $3.2 million. The aquisition price was slightly less than $3 million. I'll repeat for hopefully the last time, the financing mechanism used for the purchase can't be used for operational expenses. The Park Board has a power unique among political subdivisions in the state--the ability to mortgage property. There are no new dollars in the 2003 budget for the Park Board's office space--hence the notion that programs will be cut is simply nice sounding rhetoric, but ill-informed rhetoric nonetheless. Rent and parking for the downtown office is $430,000 per year and going up. Prinicipal and interest payments to Wells Fargo on the mortgage at the new building are $256,000 per year. For less money the taxpayers are getting three times the space as renting. The asset is quite real and tangible and easier to liquidate than say city hall. As far as Jordan goes, it will most likely be better served with a new northside service center as will other north and eastside parks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Craig Miller Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:28 AM To: Mpls Forum Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy I took a little time to confirm what Vicky posted. She's dead on in all of her facts. List Members; It's time to start scrutinizing every little thing the park board does. It troubles me that they could mishandle such a large amount. What about the minor and mid size expenditures? The board is about to make a very unwise purchase. 1-2 million in poor decisions could keep the parks open for kids in Jordan or any other neighborhood for longer hours. We could hire that many coaches for basketball and little league. Kids could be playing all day seven days a week. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you drive by the proposed "new digs" at 2117 West River Road N, you will > see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. > > Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. > > On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at > 2225. > > I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 > properties. Here they are: > > 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property > Taxes: $98,823 > 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 > 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 > 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. > > Brian Rice said that the "appraised value" of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. > Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the > real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park > Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property > at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. > > Mr. Rice also said that "he believes" the City assessor carries a value on > it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. > > As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the > loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories > and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate > frenzy) for $3.06 million. > > It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. > > If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious > competence problem. > > On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West > Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to > sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That > way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. > > One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining > market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not > at the top. > > Vicky Heller > Cedar-Riverside (Work) > North Oaks (Home) > > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages
Re: [Mpls] Lake Street Highway
The issue I have raised with respect to the widening of Lake Street has always been about how this will affect the senior population and disabled population that live in the area. The proposed section of Lake Street to be widened is only 1 block away from Horne Towers. This building has a significant number of physically challenged residents. In addition, there is a myriad of other supportive housing facilities in the area that house people with physical challenges. These people must also cross Lake Street. I watch as many of them struggle now just to make it across Lake street before the light changes. It will be horrid for them with a wider Lake Street. I haven't even brought up the issue of how this impacts children. My son's bus stop is scheduled for 31st and Grand. We live at 27th and Grand. That would mean he would have to walk four blocks and cross Lake Street to get to his bus stop. Thankfully, I take him to school and my husband picks him up each day so he won't have to take the bus. But, for those kids that do, crossing Lake Street during rush hour will not be fun. I see how horrible the underpass is for pedestrians and bikers at Lake and Hiawatha. That interchange is not friendly for cars let alone pedestrians. So, I hope people will continue to express concern over the widening of Lake Street and I thank David Piehl for his vigilence on this issue. This is not a done deal by a long shot. I hope the county will continue to work with the residents and business owners who will be affected by the decisions made about this issue. We are the ones who live with the affects of these decisions on a daily basis. Our concerns on this issue should be paramount to the concerns about making it easy for people from other places to get in and out of our neighborhoods. Barb Lickness Whittier = "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Banning dogs by breed
I'd rather see a "One bite and you're out" law for animals. One bite should result in euthanasia. Require insurance: har-de-har. I'm sure the people running a the drug house are going to call their insurance agents before they purchase an animal and train it to be dangerous. Right. I agree any animal can be trained to be dangerous if it has any intelligence at all and wants to please its owner--which it does. That's the nature of the beast. Dogs are still pack animals and the human is the leader of the pack. The dog wants to take direction. Some animals are a little easier to train than others are (whether you are training them to heel and fetch or bite and attack), but they will all come around eventually and learn what you are teaching. I'm sorry that we can't cage the owners for more than a hand slap. (Yes, I'm on the animals' side, always, including in this case. No, I don't think we can retrain all those critters and turn them into loveable pets. I wish we could. Since we can't, the logical step is to make sure people are safe.) Emilie Quast SE Como ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
> > 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: > $2,360,000 Property Does assessed value actually equate to fair market value in Minneapolis? I'm not a real estate agent, but from what I've read, the assessed value of a property is often quite a bit lower than fair market value. Perhaps someone should ask the board who they had appraising the property. Property tax assessments don't mean very much, outside of tax collection. -Michael Lomker, North Loop. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Additional Strib story on family of shot kid reaction
--- steven meldahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was wondering when someone was going to mention > anything about the infamous ... (full post: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-August/015808.html) Guilt by association? None here, please. It may be easy, it may be tempting, but it's something that has been rejected by any truly free society for very good reason. (At least by the laws of the societies.) If someone commits a crime, then they are a criminal. Even if 100 family members have become criminals, number 101 bears no guilt for their choices. You can replace family members with people from the same neighborhood or people wearing the same shoes or following the same sports team or any other common factor. To do otherwise is profiling and discrimination. To do otherwise becomes self-perpetuating. If there are people encouraging or compelling other people to do something illegal, that is a crime in its own right (whether they are related or not), but condemning someone just because they have the same last name is a REALLY bad idea. - Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Residency
Having public servants work in the municipality they serve is a good idea. However it should be by choice not by mandate. I recall vaguely some incentive programs that helped police officers (and/or firemen) buy houses in the city. Agree with earlier letter that an arbitrary restriction would limit the talent pool. Didn't we run into that problem with the 911 operator system a while back? -Mike Hess, Kingfield(disclosure: Not I nor anyone in my family would be affected by a residency requirement) >From: Barbara Lickness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Craig Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [Mpls] Residency >Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:38:37 -0700 (PDT) > >You are right Craig. Karen Collier also corrected me. >It was not an issue of constitutionality. The police >federation lobbied the state and had the state law >changed so the city could not require city residency >for employment. > >Barb Lickness >Whittier > >= >"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, >it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >http://finance.yahoo.com >___ >Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: >http://e-democracy.org/mpls Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
I took a little time to confirm what Vicky posted. She's dead on in all of her facts. List Members; It's time to start scrutinizing every little thing the park board does. It troubles me that they could mishandle such a large amount. What about the minor and mid size expenditures? The board is about to make a very unwise purchase. 1-2 million in poor decisions could keep the parks open for kids in Jordan or any other neighborhood for longer hours. We could hire that many coaches for basketball and little league. Kids could be playing all day seven days a week. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you drive by the proposed "new digs" at 2117 West River Road N, you will > see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. > > Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. > > On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at > 2225. > > I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 > properties. Here they are: > > 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property > Taxes: $98,823 > 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 > 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 > 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. > > Brian Rice said that the "appraised value" of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. > Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the > real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park > Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property > at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. > > Mr. Rice also said that "he believes" the City assessor carries a value on > it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. > > As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the > loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories > and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate > frenzy) for $3.06 million. > > It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. > > If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious > competence problem. > > On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West > Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to > sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That > way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. > > One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining > market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not > at the top. > > Vicky Heller > Cedar-Riverside (Work) > North Oaks (Home) > > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Lake Street Highway
Scott Persons wrote: 4 blocks of a widened Lake St at 35W does not a "freeway" make. David Piehl writes: Indeed, 4 blocks isn't an entire freeway, but it sets the stage for the SCHEDULED rebuilding of additional stretches of Lake Street in the near future. Once the width of Lake near I35W is doubled as planned by the Access Project (which the state legislature hasn't supported yet), it opens the door to additional widening. Personally, I think widening Lake as planned is as ridiculous as building the K Mart across Nicollet; what is trumpeted as a way to bring business to the area can sometimes actually kill the area. It's interesting that the city council is currently looking at making Hennepin Ave a two-way street again (downtown), because many on the council believe it will slow traffic and support the businesses near Hennepin Ave. In contrast, Access Project PAC & TAC seem to believe that making Lake St as wide as the current version of I35W (which will also increase significantly in width under the plan) is somehow helpful. As far as the elliptical bridge deal, I don't believe they will build it anyway; like most Access Project promo pieces, it's just a carrot to diminish opposition by neighbors that can later be cut from the budget. I'm glad to hear that Ed Felien, the Green Party candidate for Hennepin County, is opening a dialog on the Access Project - I think it will do a lot of good to what residents think about spending $150 million on this top-down project. David Piehl Central __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] NAACP and other "traditional" organizations criticized
Upon hearing that the NAACP and other "traditional" organizations would likely represent Minneapolis residents in any mediation with the city's police department, community activist Steve Wash said he felt like "getting up and walking out." http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/3932100.htm Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] PiPress story on Shane Price
Profile of former (future?) Green candidate and peacemaker during north- side assault/shooting aftermath. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/3937432.htm David Brauer King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Pit Bulls: Ban Them !
I was attacked by a dog as a kid of about 6--not a pit bull. I was attacked by a dog as an adult--not a pit bull. Should we ban German shepards? Both times, it was a shepard that bit me. So long as we keep dogs as domestic "pets" that will happen. From the point of view of the bitee I'll bet it could be a mico-poodle and it would still scare them and leave puncture wounds. Remember Buster Brown, "Hi, I'm Buster Brown, I live in a shoe. Here's my dog, Tag, he lives here too?" Tag was a pit bull. WizaardMarks, Central Chris L Beckwith wrote: >Ralph wrote: > >>Did you ever think about your inner city >> >residents that abuse these dogs > >>should possibly be banned? >> > >Chris responds: > >Having read the replies to my original post on >banning pit bulls, I'd like to respond by saying >though it is clear there are a number of strong >animal sympathizers here, I believe their >sympathies concerning pit bulls are utterly >misplaced and, frankly, as the above indicates, >somewhat out of touch with the practical realities >of the issue. > >First, let's blow a fallacy out of the water: >There seems to be an unspoken, rather naive faith >in the syllogism that because dogs make good pets >and pit bulls are dogs, pit bulls therefore make >good pets. Nonsense. I have no idea why defenders >continue to believe they can peddle the twaddle >that pit bulls are merely the victims of bad P.R, >bad owners and bad treatment. In short, that these >are good pets whom we have obviously failed when >they turn vicious. Whether the failure is natureor >nurture, I'll leave that indecisive, indulgent >debate to the dog pound Hamlets; it's a moot >concern compared with the issue of a badly mauled >child. So, to the defenders: spare us the violins >for these "misunderstood" dogs because you're >playing for the wrong victim. Ultimately, I don't >give a damn why a particular pit bull attacks a >kid; I care about the kid. And there is no >satisfactory post facto explanation that >rationalizes why any kid (or anyone) should get >ripped apart by a dog on a city street. None. >Nada. Get it? The story about the dog doesn't >matter. > >Concerning the claim that if we banned pitbulls, >we should in turn ban dobermans, rottweilers, etc, >or God help us, that we can't ban pits bulls >because we don't even really know what a pit bull >is - this is nothing but a silly rhetorical shell >game. The CDC seems to have no trouble telling us >which breed leads statistically in the number of >attacks on human beings. (No guesses there!) So, >given the odds, anybody care to wager the house >payment on what kind of dog will be cited next >time there's a local report about a canine attack? >If the issue had money riding on it, no doubt our >dog pound Hamlets would come to their common >senses quickly enough. But the point is, we >already are gambling. And I sure as hell don't >like the odds when it comes to pit bulls. >Particularly when there's an incentive to exploit >them in the underground economy. > >Until we live in the perfect world where animals >(and people) are treated humanely, we will >continue to see pit bull attacks. That's a fact. >Just hope it isn't your kid confronting an enraged >pit while on their way to school some morning. The >people of this city shouldn't have to worry just >because some idiot forgot to latch the dog gate or >briefly left their back door open. And local >politicians better be willing to do alot more than >than merely pronounce the result "tragic" and >"unfortunate," which does nothing and assures no >one of anything except to expect another "tragic" >and "unfortunate" incident. Regarding pit bull >attacks, it's no longer an "if" question, but a >"who," "when" and "where" question. I think a >strong case can be made that the "where" should >not be here. > >Chris Beckwith >Ward 6 > > > >___ >Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: >http://e-democracy.org/mpls > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
If you drive by the proposed "new digs" at 2117 West River Road N, you will see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at 2225. I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 properties. Here they are: 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property Taxes: $98,823 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. Brian Rice said that the "appraised value" of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. Mr. Rice also said that "he believes" the City assessor carries a value on it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate frenzy) for $3.06 million. It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious competence problem. On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not at the top. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Pit Bulls: Ban Them !
Ralph wrote: > > Did you ever think about your inner city residents that abuse these dogs > should possibly be banned? Chris responds: Having read the replies to my original post on banning pit bulls, I'd like to respond by saying though it is clear there are a number of strong animal sympathizers here, I believe their sympathies concerning pit bulls are utterly misplaced and, frankly, as the above indicates, somewhat out of touch with the practical realities of the issue. First, let's blow a fallacy out of the water: There seems to be an unspoken, rather naive faith in the syllogism that because dogs make good pets and pit bulls are dogs, pit bulls therefore make good pets. Nonsense. I have no idea why defenders continue to believe they can peddle the twaddle that pit bulls are merely the victims of bad P.R, bad owners and bad treatment. In short, that these are good pets whom we have obviously failed when they turn vicious. Whether the failure is natureor nurture, I'll leave that indecisive, indulgent debate to the dog pound Hamlets; it's a moot concern compared with the issue of a badly mauled child. So, to the defenders: spare us the violins for these "misunderstood" dogs because you're playing for the wrong victim. Ultimately, I don't give a damn why a particular pit bull attacks a kid; I care about the kid. And there is no satisfactory post facto explanation that rationalizes why any kid (or anyone) should get ripped apart by a dog on a city street. None. Nada. Get it? The story about the dog doesn't matter. Concerning the claim that if we banned pitbulls, we should in turn ban dobermans, rottweilers, etc, or God help us, that we can't ban pits bulls because we don't even really know what a pit bull is - this is nothing but a silly rhetorical shell game. The CDC seems to have no trouble telling us which breed leads statistically in the number of attacks on human beings. (No guesses there!) So, given the odds, anybody care to wager the house payment on what kind of dog will be cited next time there's a local report about a canine attack? If the issue had money riding on it, no doubt our dog pound Hamlets would come to their common senses quickly enough. But the point is, we already are gambling. And I sure as hell don't like the odds when it comes to pit bulls. Particularly when there's an incentive to exploit them in the underground economy. Until we live in the perfect world where animals (and people) are treated humanely, we will continue to see pit bull attacks. That's a fact. Just hope it isn't your kid confronting an enraged pit while on their way to school some morning. The people of this city shouldn't have to worry just because some idiot forgot to latch the dog gate or briefly left their back door open. And local politicians better be willing to do alot more than than merely pronounce the result "tragic" and "unfortunate," which does nothing and assures no one of anything except to expect another "tragic" and "unfortunate" incident. Regarding pit bull attacks, it's no longer an "if" question, but a "who," "when" and "where" question. I think a strong case can be made that the "where" should not be here. Chris Beckwith Ward 6 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] God called on to help ease tension in North Minneapolis
God called on to help ease tension in North Minneapolis Chris Graves Star Tribune Published Aug 26, 2002 PRAY26 Ministers and leaders in the Minneapolis black community say they can't keep the lid on boiling police-community tensions by themselves http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3188760.html Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Developer's use of prefab homes raises Minneapolis eyebrows
--- Shawn Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Developer's use of prefab homes raises > Minneapolis eyebrows > Steve Brandt > Star Tribune > > Published Aug 25, 2002 > > After years of accumulating empty lots as > boarded homes were razed, the lower North Side > of Minneapolis now has a booming housing > demand. > > Chanhassen-based Dream Home Development > has filled some of it, erecting six-bedroom, > factory-built houses that are hauled to sites > in four pieces and assembled in a matter of hours. > > http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3186295.html (TB) Reading the article, it seems that they meet code, they just don't have the extras that someone wants. Nobody is being forced to live in them, if someone finds them better than other alternatives, let them make that choice. Terrell Brown Loring Park/Paris (today) terrell at terrellbrown dot org __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
