Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/MostGhetto kids can/must succeed/for us
In a message dated 9/4/02 10:01:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > As for "after-the-fact" corrections, we tried printing corrections > before the fact, but that didn't go over so well. > Keith says: David, You are doing a fine job. Atherton is awesome, too. He is not doing a fine job: He is not smooth, yet here is a fellow that could help at the MPS. I particularly like his point regarding the college track with default to drug and burger flipping. I can vouch for this, and yet we need skilled painters and sheet rockers, etc., every day. Even if they cannot read (though it helps a lot!). This man should have gotten support, against the establishment, from papers, and people just like you. Keith Reitman NearNorth ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Roche goes after Dibble on stadium
I would also like to hear more information about Roche's strange attempt to get the Secretary of State's office to declair that Dibble couldn't run under the DFL endorsement banner because he is a Progressive Minnesota endorsed candidate. This was touched on in the SW Journal, but didn't seem to generate any discussion on the list. Does anybody know any "inside" information about this issue? Michelle Mensing Armatage > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Roche goes after Dibble on stadium
Received an aggressive lit piece today from Rick Roche, who is running against Scott Dibble for the District 60 Senate seat in the Sept. 10 primary. While I don't have the piece nearby, so I can't quote from it, Roche basically hammers Dibble for supporting stadiums in the legislature while opposing them as a candidate. Among the many charges, the one I remember most clearly involves what Roche calls the "Dibble amendment," which tacked $45 million onto a $330 million stadium bill. My suspicion - and it is only a guess - is that Dibble was trying to tack on $$ for affordable housing or some other lefty DFL priority as way to sink the bill by making it too expensive, or at least assure if it passed that something "good" would be in it. I'm hoping someone can post more details on Roche's charges (I'll ask my wife what she did with the flier in the a.m.). I'd especially like to hear the Dibble campaign's response. I'm sure they hate responding to an attack, but I'm sure this piece was sent widely, and just six days before the primary. David Brauer King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton
I think Michael's opinion of me speaks for itself. I won't respond to that stuff. However, he makes a few professional accusations I need to briefly address. Re: our lack of inclusion of web & phone information, Michael writes of our reporter: > Contact information could have easily been recorded prior > to the interviews, after all she had to be able to reach us to arrange > them. And, if she didn't take the time to look at the candidates > websites then her background research was incomplete. I think that > we should acknowledge the obvious, the decision not to include additional > contact information was just bad journalism. The reporter of course had contact information and did look at websites. Her research should not be faulted. No errors of analysis have been cited. The decision not to include the web info was mine. > E-Democracy, for some strange reason, doesn't provide links to > local races. Michael, the snarky tone is simply unfair to those who sponsor and volunteer to maintain the very discussion list where you're making these charges. The "strange" reason is that I now have a pretty intense day job...and I'm a volunteer who gets to choose how I spend my off-hours. Of course, I'm not the only volunteer in this town. It would be nice if you see something missing, to try to help fix it. Would anyone like to volunteer to compile school board data? E-Democracy will post the page. Of our mistake on Judy Farmer's neighborhood, Michael writes: > So, you want to discuss the impact of "corrections" printed after the fact? I have > no idea if this was a simple mistake or not. I will give you the benefit > of the doubt and assume that it was. If so, it's just one of many mistakes > in your feature, which I'm not sure are due to sloppy writing or poor editing. Trust me, my incompetence is accidental. Remember, we're talking about getting Judy Farmer's neighborhood wrong - hardly an election-turner. As for "many" mistakes, we also misspelled Colleen Moriarty's last name once (sorry again, Colleen). Michael, I'm sure, would have cited material errors in his own profile by now. As for "after-the-fact" corrections, we tried printing corrections before the fact, but that didn't go over so well. Seriously...again...everyone makes mistakes. If Michael's only acceptable standard is no errors, I might vote for him for the school board just to see if he can go four years without one. You can only try to correct a mistake after it happens. If journalists *didn't* print corrections, I think readers, and certain candidates, would really scream. David Brauer Editor, Southwest Journal and Skyway News King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Michael Atherton: A Brilliant Mind Among The Addlepated
Atherton proves that "there's no OFF on the genius switch." Thanks Michael for opening our minds. Let's hope that a few of them don't revert to their original sizes. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru the colored and distorted glasses of RACE
Actually Craig, racism and in particular "Institutional Racism" is one of the most important Minneapolis "Issues". While I may not completely agree with Jonathan Palmer, the dialogue is important. If we totally agreed with each other what room would there be for discussion? Not openly discussing these issues are at the heart of the problems the City has experienced in the last few weeks. When we are all able to openly discuss such issues then we may no longer need to. Until that time it is an issue. New research into DNA has shown the ludicrous nature of ideas that separate us from those whom, from a DNA perspective, are not cousins but might as well be brothers and sisters. How we interact and get along together defines the quality of life in Minneapolis. That is a Minneapolis issue. Such dialogue may on the surface seem only tangentially related to Minneapolis issues, but I believe it may be the most important purpose of "MPLS Issues". So Jonathan, keep shooting them back to me and I will do the same. Of course we may need to bring a little more direct Minneapolis into the "Issue". Jim Graham, Ventura Village ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Honor the Naysayers!
In a message dated 9/2/2002 2:33:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ken Avidor says: Unfortunately, there are no such plaques for the naysaying public officials who voted against ,ugly and or wasteful structures such as the LSGI or the proposed stadium. I say it sometimes takes MORE courage to vote against a project than to vote for it. Ken, I agree with your assessment of civic responsibility, political courage (or the lack thereof), but it should go even farther. For too long we have listened to horror stories of outrage over the inaction, or inability of responsible politicos to decide what is obviously in the best interest of the people. And, this goes far beyond civic projects. In the every day lives of Minnesota citizens this inaction has been at the seat of great and irreparable harm to private citizens, because the powers that be are either afraid, too deeply in the pockets of, or palin old naive to the effects of allowing circumstances to follow the whims of those who benefit the most at the expense of individuals. My ire is raised every time I hear government and law officials decry how terrible it is that this company or that company has taken advantage of a citizen, and nothing is done to correct the wrong. What is the public trust if not the people relying on you in office to take care of the problem they have expereinced at the hands of unscrupulous merchants? When a widower ( or anyone for that matter) has been ripped off by a contractor/bank/merchant, our government should have more to say than "too bad". Engineers made a mess of the road project and someone dies, "too bad". Developers botch multi million dollar projects (tax money, no doubt) then walk away with the money and the project is not complete? "Too bad". Someone is not watching the store!! Or, they are watching for all the wrong reasons. Time is high for the people to make a change. Say to ineffective politicians, who only see problems and address them at election time, "Too Bad". Join the movement to bring people into the political arena and flex your muscle to get the representation you deserve, and that you want. Vote Independence and break the log jam. Robert W. Anderson IP Candidate for the House 61B Field -Regina
[Mpls] "Cain't Touch Dis"/Micheal Atherton prevails in Rebuttals
Keith says: Yeah, Read him and weep, critics of Atherton. I don't have a pit in this ring and he still knocked down all the conscientious objectors. At least, David, that is how it appears. He is right; over and over again. Keith Reitman NearNorth ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru the colored and distorted glasses of RACE
We are way off topic here. Let's stick to Mpls issues. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] > With respect to Jim's opinion and his advice, to Brandon, I think perhaps he not fully understand the problem that he delineates. > > wrt issue 1, whether White people were part of the group that enslaved Blacks or not, they do enjoy certain privileges, freedoms and advantages by virtue of the fact of skin color. Freedom from certain levels of oppression and harassment being among the top as well as access to resources and information. > > wrt issue 2, I would ask Jim why it is Black people's responsibility to elect a non-White mayor? By segmenting it out and asking "Does W. Brandon feel the rest of Minneapolis > should elect a Black Mayor just to prove it is a liberal city?" places the needs of the Black Community into a different area than all of the rest of the residents. The fact that it took as long to elect a non-White mayor speaks directly to the lack of diversity and indirectly/directly to the consciousness of the city. Were they even willing to consider a non-White mayor, and why or why not? > > If the city is truly a liberal city, then color of a candidate would not even be an issue, but it's a pretty strong indication how liberal (or lack thereof) the city is when it has never had proportional representation. > > wrt issue 4 I'm still trying to ascertain why the size of the minority population is the reason for lack of minority representation. The implication is that the only way that people of color get elected is if there is a larger population of color, which actually makes Brandon's point that the city is not liberal. If the only people voting for persons of color, then the implication is that the city is far more racist than Brandon asserted. Is this what Jim is saying? > > I'm not even going to touch how Jim was able to work in a plug about supportive housing, but he does get to a good point of the issue of institutional racism, just a wrong example. > > Irish and Scotts and even Chinese came as Indentured Servants, not Slaves. It is not the same, and to equate the experience creates perceptual differentiation that is incorrect. If all these groups came over as Slaves, why are only Blacks in the situation they are in? The next answer is of course the stereotypical laziness, criminal behavior, etc. Nor were poor Whites ever treated the same as Blacks in this country. To even raise these thoughts disregards the experience, oppression and inequality of Blacks historically and currently. > > I would reiterate some of the texts that Brandon referenced if one thinks that things weren't so bad, aren't now or ever were equal. American Slavery is the first time that one race was enslaved by another, it was different and worse than any other form that existed, and the effects still exist today, that is what institutional racism really is. Check out Howard Zinn's People's History, and James Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me, Cornell West's Race Matters and many other's I'd be happy to recommend if you email me off list. But the problem has never been as simple as "more minorities", and it has not been an equal experience. > > Jonathan Palmer > Victory > (A conscientious Scots-Irish African American, who's ancestors owned his other ancestors and who cannot trace his African American roots too far because of the systematic destruction of that group, but who is proud of all his heritages nonetheless) > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton
"Lomker, Michael" wrote: > I'm not sure if Michael is helping his cause by protesting so much. > Sometimes it is best to hold yourself above your critics > (when the bias is obvious) and stay focused on the issues. When I decided to run for school board I did so with the self-knowledge that I could not run as a politician. I am not a politician. I don't pick and chose my views based on popular opinion. I don't restrict my statements to innocuous platitudes. I will tell you what I think regardless of how it is likely to affect your opinion of me. I will not have others speak for me to remain above the fray. I believe that in elections voters should be able to evaluate the true positions of candidates and then pick who they feel would best represent them. I want you to vote for me and the issues I support, not some closely managed image of what my campaign staffers think you want to vote for. The fact that many voters are swayed by flashy marketing campaigns and negative advertising is a sad commentary on the state of American politics. I was told by a wise and savvy political advisor that the first thing I should have done in my campaign was to get off the list server, but I'm still here and I will continue to openly debate issues and defend my positions. I know of no other way to respect the intellectual integrity of voters. As a teacher I don't pick and chose students' questions. I take them as them come and I answer as honestly and completely as I can, even questions as to the relevance of the subject matter. I believe that shows respect. Ventura changed the face (or if you prefer the body) of American politics. He showed that it was possible to win being exactly who you are while saying exactly what you thought. Unfortunately, Jesse turned out to be self-centered showboat who couldn't implement the causes he espoused. But he broke ground for other candidates to be honestly who they are. I believe that R.T. is a new type of politician. He often says what he thinks regardless of the political fallout. He is as the old line says, "A man of respect." WizardMarks wrote: > >Michael Atherton wrote: > >Denny Schapiro was not and is not a critic of public education, he is a supporter > >of the status quo. Mr. Schapiro was also endorsed by the Tribune and his chances > > > >were not destroyed prior to the primary by the Tribune editorial board referring to > >him as a, "52 year old failed businessman with narrow personal concerns." I'd > >like to see someone justify the Tribune's lack of endorcement of the only two > >public school critics in a field of 12 canidates. > > > > > This, Michael, is why I can't vote for you. You're saying, on one hand, > that the Tribune's describing you as a "52 year old graduate student" > hurts your chances of election to the school board and was a hurtful > thing for them to do. Yet you turn around and in the next sentence visit > the same kind of hurtful (and inaccurate) description on Shapiro. You > may not be the Tribune, but there are some 850 people, minimum, who will > have that description of Shapiro to consider when they're cogitating > their vote. It gives me the feeling that you are not a guy I should be > voting for to work in the service of children. It's really hard for me to tell if this is a sincere misinterpretation of my message or a political attack strategy. I always hated the Republicans for what they did to Clinton, that they perpetually tried to ensnare him in conflicts, hearings, and prosecutions. At least the Democrats don't seem to use this strategy as often in national politics, or maybe it's just because Bush has kept them off balance with his emphasis on foreign threats so they'd look bad trying to ensnare him. I was simply just trying to show by analogy what it would have been like if the Tribune had done something similar to Mr. Schapiro as they did to me. Of course the description of Mr. Schapiro is inaccurate, it's intended to be to make the point. I couldn't have made the point with a positive description. If anyone is influenced by this description in the 2004 election then they'd better be careful what bridges they buy between now and then. I voted for Mr. Schapiro because he is knowledgeable and sincerely interested in education, I just think he's a little misguided. Jim Mork wrote: > Mr. Atherton: > > In your web page, you make the following claim: > > "If you take all of the research on class size as > a whole, there is little evidence that reducing > class sizes has a significant effect on > achievement for the majority of students. " > > Since you don't really try to footnote "all the > research on class size" (how could you?), how do > we know it says what you say it says. I don't > think a statement like this would fly in a class > paper. Why should you get away with it on the > website. You often make the claim "I understand > the research". But
[Mpls] Edit your posts!
Please all you supposedly intelligent people: EDIT YOUR POSTS. The garbage we poor sufferers on the digest have to wade through! Someone replies to a post and quotes the entire post he/she is replying to. Then someone replies to the reply, quoting the reply and the original message. Now I have the original message three times. The absolute worst are those who quote the entire digest that the original message appeared in. Please take pity on your fellow list members and think before you hit send! Joyce Riedesel Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru the colored and distorted glasses of RACE
With respect to Jim's opinion and his advice, to Brandon, I think perhaps he not fully understand the problem that he delineates. wrt issue 1, whether White people were part of the group that enslaved Blacks or not, they do enjoy certain privileges, freedoms and advantages by virtue of the fact of skin color. Freedom from certain levels of oppression and harassment being among the top as well as access to resources and information. wrt issue 2, I would ask Jim why it is Black people's responsibility to elect a non-White mayor? By segmenting it out and asking "Does W. Brandon feel the rest of Minneapolis should elect a Black Mayor just to prove it is a liberal city?" places the needs of the Black Community into a different area than all of the rest of the residents. The fact that it took as long to elect a non-White mayor speaks directly to the lack of diversity and indirectly/directly to the consciousness of the city. Were they even willing to consider a non-White mayor, and why or why not? If the city is truly a liberal city, then color of a candidate would not even be an issue, but it's a pretty strong indication how liberal (or lack thereof) the city is when it has never had proportional representation. wrt issue 4 I'm still trying to ascertain why the size of the minority population is the reason for lack of minority representation. The implication is that the only way that people of color get elected is if there is a larger population of color, which actually makes Brandon's point that the city is not liberal. If the only people voting for persons of color, then the implication is that the city is far more racist than Brandon asserted. Is this what Jim is saying? I'm not even going to touch how Jim was able to work in a plug about supportive housing, but he does get to a good point of the issue of institutional racism, just a wrong example. Irish and Scotts and even Chinese came as Indentured Servants, not Slaves. It is not the same, and to equate the experience creates perceptual differentiation that is incorrect. If all these groups came over as Slaves, why are only Blacks in the situation they are in? The next answer is of course the stereotypical laziness, criminal behavior, etc. Nor were poor Whites ever treated the same as Blacks in this country. To even raise these thoughts disregards the experience, oppression and inequality of Blacks historically and currently. I would reiterate some of the texts that Brandon referenced if one thinks that things weren't so bad, aren't now or ever were equal. American Slavery is the first time that one race was enslaved by another, it was different and worse than any other form that existed, and the effects still exist today, that is what institutional racism really is. Check out Howard Zinn's People's History, and James Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me, Cornell West's Race Matters and many other's I'd be happy to recommend if you email me off list. But the problem has never been as simple as "more minorities", and it has not been an equal experience. Jonathan Palmer Victory (A conscientious Scots-Irish African American, who's ancestors owned his other ancestors and who cannot trace his African American roots too far because of the systematic destruction of that group, but who is proud of all his heritages nonetheless) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] bikes on the mall
I did not know there was a time when bikes were not "allowed" on the mall. Funny Wo(men) funny laws My advice would be to sincerely help cyclists get from point A to point B safely, if we are meant to ride on buses with our bikes tagging along this seems equally silly. I do applaud the bike rack, they are nice and I have used them. Everyone should admit the bike lanes are dangerous and in my opinion do not encourage people to ride even the shortest of distances. Beyond that I would venture into the world of conflict Robert Yorga St. Anthony West ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] District 62 Candidate Forum Tomorrow, Sep. 5th
Do you feel like you never have a chance to tell your elected officials what YOU think? Do you want to meet your elected officials in person? Then, please join us in telling our candidates running for office is district 62 what YOU care about! District 62 Midtown Neighborhood When: Thursday, September 5th Forum: 7:00-9:00 p.m. Where: Midtown YWCA 2121 East Lake Street Confirmed Candidates include: Wes Skoglund, Holle Brian, Kelly Bailey, Jim Davnie, Orlando Ochoada, Laura Holzschuh, Ron Moey, and Jean Wagenius Mercy Olson Ward Public Policy Coordinator YWCA of Minneapolis 1130 Nicollet Mall Minneapolis, MN 55403 Phone: 612-215-4123 Fax: 612-332-0500 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our Mission: Empower Women & Girls & Eliminate Racism ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] With the regrets we all have for the death of a young man...and whatever mistake he made or whateve
I agree wholeheartedly with Rep. Kahn's assessment of the downtown Minneapolis bar closing situation. I have been downtown at 1:00AM Sunday morning and what I saw were large groups of belligerent young men loaded with testosterone and liquor and looking for trouble. The police really had their hands full just keeping the groups moving along so that everyone would not gather on the same street corner. I avoid downtown on Saturday evenings. Hennepin and Lake is as far as I go. Bill Dooley Kenny -Original Message- From: Phyllis Kahn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] With the regrets we all have for the death of a young man...and whatever mistake he made or whateve With the regrets we all have for the death of a young man...and whatever mistake he made or whatever he did wrong, he did not deserve to die for it; one aspect of the situation needs further attention. The police are quoted as saying that "the downtown area was out of control" and "several fights broke out between 1 and 2 a.mbut that is not uncommon after bar closing time". (STrib, 9/4). I have long urged a later bar closing time. It is only too obvious that dumping all patrons out on the street at 1:00 is a bad scene, for both drivers and pedestrians. Cities with later or no closing times do not have these problems. People trickle out as they get tired (or too drunk) and have far fewer confrontations. I have tried to change the state law and will continue to try. (I urge those who agree to contact their legislator and the gubernatorial candidates). However the Mpls city council could, all by itself change the closing hours, so that bars who wanted to let patrons nurse a drink or eat or listen to music and not rush out could mellow out for a while. The state law only covers sales after 1:00, the city ordinance covers closing. It's time Minneapolis grew up and became a serious (and safer) night city. Phyllis Kahn State Rep 59B ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] With the regrets we all have for the death of a youngman...and whatever mistake he made or whateve
With the regrets we all have for the death of a young man...and whatever mistake he made or whatever he did wrong, he did not deserve to die for it; one aspect of the situation needs further attention. The police are quoted as saying that "the downtown area was out of control" and "several fights broke out between 1 and 2 a.mbut that is not uncommon after bar closing time". (STrib, 9/4). I have long urged a later bar closing time. It is only too obvious that dumping all patrons out on the street at 1:00 is a bad scene, for both drivers and pedestrians. Cities with later or no closing times do not have these problems. People trickle out as they get tired (or too drunk) and have far fewer confrontations. I have tried to change the state law and will continue to try. (I urge those who agree to contact their legislator and the gubernatorial candidates). However the Mpls city council could, all by itself change the closing hours, so that bars who wanted to let patrons nurse a drink or eat or listen to music and not rush out could mellow out for a while. The state law only covers sales after 1:00, the city ordinance covers closing. It's time Minneapolis grew up and became a serious (and safer) night city. Phyllis Kahn State Rep 59B ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Yes, we are living in the same City. Just each looking at it thru the colored and distorted glasses of RACE
W. Brandon exhibits a problem that many in Minneapolis share. An insufficient knowledge of history and geography, both of this country and of the world. Too often people take stereotypes and myths perpetuated by media and rumor and make statements and form opinions that affect Minneapolis issues. So in this regard he should follow his own advice and, "---to perhaps come down off the mood altering substances and take a peek out into the real world the rest of us are living in." I have no problem with the things W. Brandon has personal experience with, or the racism and slavery in this country which were crimes against humanity, but here are a couple of problems with assumptions he seems to make: 1. He seems to believe the white people who are here in Minnesota were in fact part of the group participating in the slave trade. The ancestors of today's population by and large immigrated to the US at least one full generation after slavery was abolished. Though Minnesota had very little real political interest in slavery, I think if you check you will find that Minnesotans of that time, on a per-capita basis, gave their lives to end slavery at a higher rate than almost any other State. Visit Shiloh or Gettysburg and look at the memorials to Minnesota's dead. 2. W. Brandon asks, "why did it take until 1994 for > Minneapolis to elect is first non-white mayor to City Hall? The answer is that Black people until recently were a really small minority of the Minneapolis population. Does W. Brandon feel the rest of Minneapolis should elect a Black Mayor just to prove it is a liberal city? 3. W. Brandon asks, "why has our city council never been a majority of people of color or even a third people of color?" Answer: The Black and people of color population in Minneapolis has been a small minority of voters until recently. 4. W. Brandon asks, "If racism is > all it takes to get elected around these parts, then why aren't all the city > house and senate seats (outside of perhaps Southwest Minneapolis) > represented by people of color? If yelling racism is all that needs to > happen to get things done, why is the police chief still in office? The answer is still the same; the minority population was just too small until recently. As for the Police Chief, he is probably there because he does a good job and because he has a contract with the City of Minneapolis that a Black Mayor of Minneapolis gave to him, and it hasn't run out yet. 5. Mr. Campos finally has something with a truly salient point in his post when he asks, "Why are neighborhoods > like Phillips still crime laden while Linden Hills enjoys happenings and > tranquility? Now Brandon you are on the correct track. It is because of an INSTITUTIONAL PATTERN OF RACISM. The City of Minneapolis does not provide such poor neighborhoods of color with EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. Minneapolis in fact has a pattern of concentrating criminals, and those conditions that cause criminal behavior, into neighborhoods with high percentages of poor and people of color. Why do you think "Fortress Neighborhoods" are able to keep out supportive housing and have it concentrated in areas with high crime? Until very recently the Phillips area was identified as the "Black Zone" by planning department people. When I challenged someone about it he said it wasn't racist, it just meant there was no hope for that community. It is probably easy to do "Urban Renewal" if you concentrate all the problems in one area, then when it's bad enough you bulldoze the whole area and let your buddies do "Real" development. The City gets real upset when uppity poor neighborhoods make demands to be treated fairly. Make too much noise and the neighborhood gets punished with even poorer services and resources. (Of course some of us are starting to say "so what, it can't get that much worse", and of course some have decided a federal court is the only way to end the "Institutional" racism and classism that is so common in Minneapolis.) The moral of this "Lecture" is for W. Brandon to keep on fighting, but to fight the real enemy, Institutional Patterns of racism, and not the poor individual schmuck who when the "Guilt" is laid on is raising his shoulders and saying, " I don't know who you are talking about, my Grandparents came in 1932!" Having lived through the 1950's on a sharecropper farm approximately 60 miles north of Memphis, I can also agree with Brandon about what color the sky must be for anyone thinking race relations were anything but grim even before 1954. Sorry Jim Jacobs, but it just ain't true. It is a bit like saying a woman enjoyed the sex because she did not fight too much when being raped. It was not a Steven Foster song about happy ole' darkies down by the riverside". The only consolation for Black people was that "White Trash" was treated just as bad. Of course most white trash were so dumb they didn't realize it, because the powers that be made them feel superior to the
[Mpls] pulse letter
Bravo, except that a large percentage of these people -inner city- are 'new in town', -transient-lots of them are well intentioned, -Curt Carlson and millions of others through decades, including myself have been this route and made good- most of them are well intentioned but they don't really know the city. Lots of people who live in Whittier are unaware of Whittier and uninterested, -let alone of 'downtown'. They have other interests and concerns such as getting an occupation, making a living. And then some of them are drug dealers and such and they too, have no interest in local long term planning. Most people have no interest in getting access to the public trough, they just would like to get promoted at their job at Target, -typically. People in neighborhoods should of course have access and something to say and they can be helpful and in some instances they can lead the way, but the 'future of the neighborhood' just thrown in the laps of the residents isn't always going to result in a lot. The planning and long term vision thing is a necessity. James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Pulse and a point of view
First, Pulse of the Twin Cities was shocked and saddened by the assault on news people in North Minneapolis. We have many friends in the media. We don't want to see anyone get hurt, least of all our friends. Second, we don't believe there is such a thing as "fair" and "objective" reporting. Any time anyone tells you they're being fair and objective, it generally means they're defending the status quo. All reporting is done from a point of view. A good newspaper is honest and upfront about where they're coming from. Pulse is an alternative newspaper. We report events from the point of view of people who are being pushed around by the system, by the government, by the economy, by whatever. We don't trust the government, and we don't trust the police. Lydia Howell went into the street just after the riot and talked to people at ground zero. We felt they had a right to tell their story, and we felt we had a responsibility to report it. Howell went on to explain how the straight media is perceived by many in the Jordan Neighborhood as the mouthpiece of the government and the police. Does anyone seriously doubt this? We felt it was important to publish that analysis. We don't apologize for any of that. Finally, if there is to be meaningful change in the Jordan Neighborhood, or in the Central or Phillips Neighborhoods, then the powers that be are going to have to listen to the people in those neighborhoods. The people in those neighborhoods are going to have to be given the power to control their own destinies. We would ask no less for ourselves, we should demand no less for them. Ed Felien, Publisher ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Busses and Bikes on Nicollet Mall in General
RE: When was the last time you saw them ticket a bus that is driving over 10MPH or passes another bus? Has a traffic study been conducted recently that considered whether Nicollet Mall - with one driving lane in each direction - is best used as a primary transit corridor for large busses? The high volume of passengers getting on and off the bus, and the lack of a passing lane on Nicollet, seems to be creating both the slow service downtown, and bus / bike complications. As a biker, I bet it is awfully tempting to pass a crawling (likely) or stopped bus (also likely). Is downtown service less efficient as is on Nicollet with large busses and slow rides? Or is there a better way balance the convenience of having public transit on, or very near the mall, with vehicles / other modes of transportation that are better suited for the narrow roadway? Zachary Korb Stevens Square __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton
Sorry..over the post limit. But, what I meant to say was...I wouldn't go so far as to say it was injustice... -Brandon Lacy -Powderhorn Park -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of W. Brandon Lacy Campos Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:27 AM To: Michael Atherton; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton Wow! Michael Atherton has invoked my name for Good. But, I would like to point out that I recognized the statement as having a definate bias, I believe word usage is intentional and there are/were a number of ways to communicate Michael Atherton's age and occupation without making him sound like a old career student with a grudge. I would go so far as to say it was injustice, but I definately read it as a negative bias. Argue on my friends. -Brandon Lacy -Powderhorn Park -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Atherton Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton David Brauer wrote: > Michael Atherton writes: > > > That's funny, Mr. Mann and I seem to be the only candidates willing to > > engage in ongoing discussion on the list server. So is it necessary > > to discount these dialogs by characterizing us as "talking to" rather than > > not "talking with" other list members? > > I was referring to your criticism of the paper, not your discussion on > the list. Other candidates who had issues with our coverage contacted us > directly. You merely shot snarky asides and serious charges without > details...not a discussion there. If it hasn't become obvious over the years, I don't enjoy engaging in conversations with you. It's like discussing Ethics with a Sophist, neither pleasant, informative, or productive. As to contacting you with issues about the coverage: what the point? It would only reinforce your power and my impotency. How's that prayer go? "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Change the things I can, And the ability to know the difference." > None of the profiles were meant to be positive or negative...that's not > what we do. Michael is running as an outsider, and his message - try to > deny it after reading this list - is critical of the current system. > Voters can make up their own minds based on their own feeling about the > current system. Whether they were meant to be or not, the fact is that some appear to be more positive than others. Readers can judge for themselves. > This is a little like the fulminating about the "52-year-old grad > student" thing: it is what it is, neither positive nor negative - unless > you believe there's something wrong with the 52-year-old grad students. > (I don't.) Profiles commonly list age and occupation, as we and the > Strib did. It's a fact. Right. I suppose that some people, like Brandon Lacy Campos, have the vision necessary for recognizing bias and injustice when they see it and others, such as yourself, do not. I prefer to draw my friends and acquaintances from the former. > > I don't understand why, > > if the Journal's goal was to provide information to voters why they > > wouldn't include a canidate' sphone number or website address. > I was taught that if you don't understand something, ask. > To be honest, the reporter was scrambling to finish all the interviews > and 10 profiles and we were scrambling to produce the paper. I wish we > had included the information and am sorry we didn't. I can put it in the > Sept. 9 issue, which most people get but probably won't read before the > Sept. 10 election. (Readers: email me off list whether you think this is > worth the space in that issue.) We obviously will print websites and > phone numbers for the general election. This has to be the weakest excuse for incompetent journalism that I have ever heard. Contact information could have easily been recorded prior to the interviews, after all she had to be able to reach us to arrange them. And, if she didn't take the time to look at the candidates websites then her background research was incomplete. I think that we should acknowledge the obvious, the decision not to include additional contact information was just bad journalism. > I am mollified that someone can punch "Michael Atherton Minneapolis" > into Google and find your website pretty quickly. Although I noticed > your umn-dot page does not list a link to your own election site! An Google search doesn't get you to my campaign website it gets you to my personal website at the U. So if voters are trying to research positions on the issues the can find out my favorite movies, my hobbies, family pictures, and my professional vitae, but nothing about my campaign. Why would you be mollified by this point. I try to keep my personal and professional life separate from p
RE: [Mpls] rascism
Absolutely it was an improvement. You have to look at WHY race relations deteriorated. It was because African Americans, and other people of color, began demanding equal treatment and access to education, jobs, economic opportunity, housing, etc. And whites didn't like it. Therefore the conflict was good and necessary. I'll end this conversation now as it no longer resembles anything to do with the Minneapolis. But, PLEASE pick up a book and read it. I can recommend numerous titles to you, videos, documentaries, etc. Start with A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn or perhaps Lies My Teacher Told Me, by Loewenstien ( I think that is correct last name). -Brandon Lacy -Powderhorn Park -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James E Jacobsen Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] rascism Reference letter from Former Speaker of the House in which she asks, 'From whom did you hear this first hand account, everything probably did go pretty well for many of the whites. For blacks who didn't mind staying away from the voting booths, drinking from their own water fountains and suing their own washrooms standing in the back of the bus--'--in ad finitum. It is against list rules to reveal sources etc, I know I can believe the sources, have you made inquiry to disprove? Actually, I did not say the blacks had a nirvana type situation -any more than the whites did, you have to see it all in context that in the 1950s they were less than a century away from slavery, and there was a lot left to work out in terms of the race relations and etc, but after the 1954 Supreme Court decision and subsequent civil rights activities the communities went from a workable ambiance in which people talked to each other to that of two opposing armed camps. Do you think that was an improvement? James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton
Wow! Michael Atherton has invoked my name for Good. But, I would like to point out that I recognized the statement as having a definate bias, I believe word usage is intentional and there are/were a number of ways to communicate Michael Atherton's age and occupation without making him sound like a old career student with a grudge. I would go so far as to say it was injustice, but I definately read it as a negative bias. Argue on my friends. -Brandon Lacy -Powderhorn Park -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Atherton Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton David Brauer wrote: > Michael Atherton writes: > > > That's funny, Mr. Mann and I seem to be the only candidates willing to > > engage in ongoing discussion on the list server. So is it necessary > > to discount these dialogs by characterizing us as "talking to" rather than > > not "talking with" other list members? > > I was referring to your criticism of the paper, not your discussion on > the list. Other candidates who had issues with our coverage contacted us > directly. You merely shot snarky asides and serious charges without > details...not a discussion there. If it hasn't become obvious over the years, I don't enjoy engaging in conversations with you. It's like discussing Ethics with a Sophist, neither pleasant, informative, or productive. As to contacting you with issues about the coverage: what the point? It would only reinforce your power and my impotency. How's that prayer go? "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Change the things I can, And the ability to know the difference." > None of the profiles were meant to be positive or negative...that's not > what we do. Michael is running as an outsider, and his message - try to > deny it after reading this list - is critical of the current system. > Voters can make up their own minds based on their own feeling about the > current system. Whether they were meant to be or not, the fact is that some appear to be more positive than others. Readers can judge for themselves. > This is a little like the fulminating about the "52-year-old grad > student" thing: it is what it is, neither positive nor negative - unless > you believe there's something wrong with the 52-year-old grad students. > (I don't.) Profiles commonly list age and occupation, as we and the > Strib did. It's a fact. Right. I suppose that some people, like Brandon Lacy Campos, have the vision necessary for recognizing bias and injustice when they see it and others, such as yourself, do not. I prefer to draw my friends and acquaintances from the former. > > I don't understand why, > > if the Journal's goal was to provide information to voters why they > > wouldn't include a canidate' sphone number or website address. > I was taught that if you don't understand something, ask. > To be honest, the reporter was scrambling to finish all the interviews > and 10 profiles and we were scrambling to produce the paper. I wish we > had included the information and am sorry we didn't. I can put it in the > Sept. 9 issue, which most people get but probably won't read before the > Sept. 10 election. (Readers: email me off list whether you think this is > worth the space in that issue.) We obviously will print websites and > phone numbers for the general election. This has to be the weakest excuse for incompetent journalism that I have ever heard. Contact information could have easily been recorded prior to the interviews, after all she had to be able to reach us to arrange them. And, if she didn't take the time to look at the candidates websites then her background research was incomplete. I think that we should acknowledge the obvious, the decision not to include additional contact information was just bad journalism. > I am mollified that someone can punch "Michael Atherton Minneapolis" > into Google and find your website pretty quickly. Although I noticed > your umn-dot page does not list a link to your own election site! An Google search doesn't get you to my campaign website it gets you to my personal website at the U. So if voters are trying to research positions on the issues the can find out my favorite movies, my hobbies, family pictures, and my professional vitae, but nothing about my campaign. Why would you be mollified by this point. I try to keep my personal and professional life separate from politics, why is it surprising that I wouldn't include a link to my campaign website? I feel that it's rude to put social pressure on my friends and colleagues to vote for me. What is much more surprising is that a story providing voters with election information would fail to provide a link to candidates' websites. > By the way, the Strib included websites, etc. in their school board > profiles, but sti
RE: [Mpls] Minneapolis schools/response to Mike Atherton
David Brauer wrote: > Michael Atherton writes: > > > That's funny, Mr. Mann and I seem to be the only candidates willing to > > engage in ongoing discussion on the list server. So is it necessary > > to discount these dialogs by characterizing us as "talking to" rather than > > not "talking with" other list members? > > I was referring to your criticism of the paper, not your discussion on > the list. Other candidates who had issues with our coverage contacted us > directly. You merely shot snarky asides and serious charges without > details...not a discussion there. If it hasn't become obvious over the years, I don't enjoy engaging in conversations with you. It's like discussing Ethics with a Sophist, neither pleasant, informative, or productive. As to contacting you with issues about the coverage: what the point? It would only reinforce your power and my impotency. How's that prayer go? "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Change the things I can, And the ability to know the difference." > None of the profiles were meant to be positive or negative...that's not > what we do. Michael is running as an outsider, and his message - try to > deny it after reading this list - is critical of the current system. > Voters can make up their own minds based on their own feeling about the > current system. Whether they were meant to be or not, the fact is that some appear to be more positive than others. Readers can judge for themselves. > This is a little like the fulminating about the "52-year-old grad > student" thing: it is what it is, neither positive nor negative - unless > you believe there's something wrong with the 52-year-old grad students. > (I don't.) Profiles commonly list age and occupation, as we and the > Strib did. It's a fact. Right. I suppose that some people, like Brandon Lacy Campos, have the vision necessary for recognizing bias and injustice when they see it and others, such as yourself, do not. I prefer to draw my friends and acquaintances from the former. > > I don't understand why, > > if the Journal's goal was to provide information to voters why they > > wouldn't include a canidate' sphone number or website address. > I was taught that if you don't understand something, ask. > To be honest, the reporter was scrambling to finish all the interviews > and 10 profiles and we were scrambling to produce the paper. I wish we > had included the information and am sorry we didn't. I can put it in the > Sept. 9 issue, which most people get but probably won't read before the > Sept. 10 election. (Readers: email me off list whether you think this is > worth the space in that issue.) We obviously will print websites and > phone numbers for the general election. This has to be the weakest excuse for incompetent journalism that I have ever heard. Contact information could have easily been recorded prior to the interviews, after all she had to be able to reach us to arrange them. And, if she didn't take the time to look at the candidates websites then her background research was incomplete. I think that we should acknowledge the obvious, the decision not to include additional contact information was just bad journalism. > I am mollified that someone can punch "Michael Atherton Minneapolis" > into Google and find your website pretty quickly. Although I noticed > your umn-dot page does not list a link to your own election site! An Google search doesn't get you to my campaign website it gets you to my personal website at the U. So if voters are trying to research positions on the issues the can find out my favorite movies, my hobbies, family pictures, and my professional vitae, but nothing about my campaign. Why would you be mollified by this point. I try to keep my personal and professional life separate from politics, why is it surprising that I wouldn't include a link to my campaign website? I feel that it's rude to put social pressure on my friends and colleagues to vote for me. What is much more surprising is that a story providing voters with election information would fail to provide a link to candidates' websites. > By the way, the Strib included websites, etc. in their school board > profiles, but still they are part of the conspiracy to limit voters' > information? "Just because I believe in conspiracies doesn't mean that the FBI is not following me." Funny, I don't remember labeling this as a "conspiracy." I had said, "... that the media has limited access to candidates views ...", and by way of inference, placed greater emphasis on their own views. I don't think you guys get together in poorly lit smoke filled basement rooms in the furthest reaches of the warehouse district to conspire as to who gets elected in the city. But I think that it's pretty obvious to everyone that the Tribune's editorial board does try to influence elections, why else would they give endorsements? So go to the Star
[Mpls] rascism
Reference letter from Former Speaker of the House in which she asks, 'From whom did you hear this first hand account, everything probably did go pretty well for many of the whites. For blacks who didn't mind staying away from the voting booths, drinking from their own water fountains and suing their own washrooms standing in the back of the bus--'--in ad finitum. It is against list rules to reveal sources etc, I know I can believe the sources, have you made inquiry to disprove? Actually, I did not say the blacks had a nirvana type situation -any more than the whites did, you have to see it all in context that in the 1950s they were less than a century away from slavery, and there was a lot left to work out in terms of the race relations and etc, but after the 1954 Supreme Court decision and subsequent civil rights activities the communities went from a workable ambiance in which people talked to each other to that of two opposing armed camps. Do you think that was an improvement? James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] City Pages on Moss and Price
from the article: As the night's events continue to reverberate throughout Minneapolis, what many seem to find most interesting is not that a botched police raid resulted in the shooting of a child or that the event touched off a near race riot (or rebellion) in Jordan. It's that MPD leaders essentially ceded control of the situation to outspoken black activists like Spike Moss and Shane Price. In the days following the melee, various neighborhood groups in Jordan complained that Moss and the City, Inc., were grandstanding outsiders who moved in with little regard for other, longer-standing grassroots community efforts. Chief Olson was criticized for issuing Moss a batch of MPD ID cards and offering to pay $6,000 to a "citizen patrol" group organized by Moss, which walks through the neighborhood at night discouraging drug sales and other criminal activity. == EY: That was my question also. I wondered if the police pulling back to let Price and Moss handle it increased the risk to the reporters. I would also like to thank Reporters -- and list members -- who tried to cover this event -- like Judith Borger. I'm curious whether the Pulse reporter -- Howell, who wrote the article that suggested that the media had it coming (something the Committee Against Police Brutality also said publically) was there on the scene. This article also states that the reason Price and Moss were needed was because of the Police Federation: No matter their motives, or their history with Olson, it's hard not to defend the words and actions of Price and Moss since August 22. Too much time has been spent decrying Price and especially Moss as opportunist, especially when you pause to note why their involvement was necessary in the first place. Specifically, the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis has created such a racial divide in this city that it seems ridiculous to nit-pick the motivations of those who are trying to contain the violence that has stemmed from it. == EY: Most city officials, and police leaders -- such as Dolan of the 4th precinct have said publically that Moss and Price helped contain the situation. I thought the Police Federation statement was horrible and was putting gasoline on the fire. However, from what I've seen, there are some -- like that Committee Against Police Brutality that seem to have purposely tried to escalate this situation to add grist to their lawsuit. I do think it's problematic that the number of black police officers has gone down in the last five years. What is happening with that? Is the police department aggressively recruiting minority officers? They should be. At the same time, in Central, there are residents from all races who want good policing in the neighborhood to help reduce crime. The article continues: The racial overtones of the Federation's August 7 letter calling for the resignation of council member Natalie Johnson Lee were impossible to ignore in the black community if not the city at large. Johnson Lee's unforgivable transgression was to send out an e-mail noting that two people died at Horn Terrace and Tower the night Martha Donald, a 60-year old black resident of the complex, shot and killed Melissa Schmidt, a white police officer, and was in turn shot and killed by Schmidt or her white partner. The council member gave ample tribute to the heroism and honor of Schmidt. But she also asked that we grieve for Donald's family and those who had loved her. With needless hyperbole, the Federation equated Donald with notorious terrorist Timothy McVeigh. The officers union also took the stark position that Donald's family was not worthy of sympathy and that Johnson Lee was not fit to represent her constituents. That both women are black was not lost on the African-American community. Before the Federation's letter was published, the outpouring of love and support for Melissa Schmidt was a universally healing force in this city. Afterward, Price says, "it racially polarized people. All of a sudden if I am supporting Natalie it means I am not in support of that officer and her family. That is absolutely not true, but that was the perception you had to fight." === EY: The Police Federations letter was bad, but I also continue to remain skeptical about the motives of Spike Moss and the City Inc. However I'm also tired of hearing the excuses for the attacks on the media. There is no excuse for that. I hope the people who beat up the reporters and torched the media van are caught, convicted and do prison time for their actions. I also don't see how the attitude of "blame everybody else" is going to help young African American kids learn to succeed in the world. If you keep on hearing, there aren't any jobs out there, and the only choice is drug dealing, then that message in itself helps perpetuate the problem. Eva Eva Young Near North Minne
Re: [Mpls] Latest on Brandon Hall murder
Seems like the County Atty had plenty of time,reason, and ample evidence to put the shooter for other heinous acts, but didn't. It looks like 1030 Morgan( 10 affordable homes) was sacrificed so that we could avoid dealing with a murderer. For those of you new to the list. 1030 Morgan Ave N. is where Ms. Hughes was murdered. Jackie Cherryhomes and friends blamed the building. The building was given a death sentence. The good/bad residents living there were made homeless by city action. Now a young man with promising potential has been shot dead. Fighting crime isn't like it used to be. I wonder if a bar or parking lot has to be condemned now? Or is our society going to punish people when they need punishment? Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "List Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mpls list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 6:10 AM Subject: [Mpls] Latest on Brandon Hall murder > http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/3208795.html > > David Brauer > List manager > > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Nicollet Mall Bicycling/State Senate race in SD 60
> -Original Message- > From: Richard K. Anderson > Yes Terrell the Transit Police ticket > cyclists who break the rules. But think about this, when was > the last time you saw them ticket a bus that is driving over > 10MPH or passes another bus? Both are also violations on the on the Mall! [TB] Neither have I seen them tag the busses that run the red light while headed east on 12th as they cross the mall, they hardly even slow down. Going south on Marquette they _usually_ tap their horn as they run the red light at 9th after dropping of passengers. I see both of these several times a week while walking to work. I saw television ads this morning for Rich Roche running for State Senate in the DFL primary election next week. The ads, one on CNN the other on Channel 5, focused on stadiums (he's against it) and education (he's for it). I can't recall any recent state legislative television advertising here in Minneapolis probably because its expensive. According to the Campaign Finance Board web site he hasn't filed for a public subsidy so he isn't subject to a spending limit. I don't see finance reports on the web site (they have not been there in the past), anyone have any idea how much money this guy has to spend on his campaign? Terrell Brown Loring Park Terrell at terrellbrown dot org ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] City Pages on Jordan shooting
Britt Robson analyzes the relationship between Spike Moss and Shane Price and city police leaders. http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1135/article10686.asp David Brauer List manager ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Latest on Brandon Hall murder
http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/3208795.html David Brauer List manager ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Coverage of non-police voices
Susan Wrote: But examining > the question "Why do they hate us?" may lead to > solutions and a healed relationship between the media > and communities of color. Chris responds: I do tire of the banality of self-reflexive questions about media representation of issues, as if to say, the solution to the problem lies in the reconstruction / revision of the media's representation of an issue or group. Unfortunately, the question of black crime in Minneapolis can not be answered with a kinder, gentler representation of it in the media. There's no "sweetening" spin that can be sprinkled on the plague of drugs, guns, poverty and violence in black urban communities that will make it go down easier for anyone, black or white. Looking for a solution in a context of image is to miss the point entirely. But this is part of the shallowness of our age and culture. "Why do they hate us?" Please. This is nothing more than the simulation of liberal guilt, posed in a time of crisis to deflect deeper, more problematic questions. If there's true guilt, it should stem from knowing we respond superfluously when responding as if problems were a matter of image and media. The effectiveness of this is as penetrating as a crayon on steel. Maybe they hate us because we're not honest enough to admit what ineffectual baloney it is. We would do well to stop vilifying the police and / or the media every time an incident arises. It isn't that they are above criticism, but more often than not, they are merely the people who have the unenviable job of responding first when problems occur. Holding them responsible as if it were their job to provide solutions is ridiculous - it isn't their job and never can nor should be. Blaming them gets us nowhere, deflecting us from the real discussion. And what's that? The enculturation of crime in urban black communities fueled by inadequate resources, the easy availability of guns and the necessity of illicit drug economies to sustain standards of living for the poor. If we aren't responding to those issues, we aren't making a dent. The rest is mere hand wringing. Beckwith Ward 6 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
