[Mpls] re; Library budget cuts

[Doug and Emily Wright]

Hello all,> I am a new list member living 
in Northeast Minneapolis.  I am concerned> about the library board's 
idea of shutting down "community" libraries to> solve the budget problems 
they are facing.  We are all part of a community,> and I think we 
should all share in the burden of reduced library services.> I am in 
favor of a system wide reduction of hours and reducing the> "technology" 
budget at all libraries.  I think taking away a library in any> 
given community is depressing and I'm sure that whoever screams the 
loudest> will get to keep their library and whoever stays silent will 
lose theirs.> Everybody deserves  to keep their community library 
and we should all  be> able to live with fewer computers, shorter 
hours and think of this as> hopefully temporary.> Emily 
Wright> 




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[Mpls] Hennepin Co bonding for I-35W Access Project

[Dave Piehl]

Ken Avidor wrote:

"The (35W Access) project has a current price tag of
$150 million (snip) "MN/DOT has committed to paying
for the largest share of the cost, but has no money.
It has said that it will only fund the project if new
transportation dollars are provided by the legislature
(e.g., gas tax increase), meaning that project funding
is far from a sure thing.  Hennepin County
may,however,
bond to provide up-front funding."

David Piehl writes:

I posted about this a while back - and I think it's
very bizarre that Hennepin county perceives such a
dire need for the Access Project that they are willing
to incurr the expense of nearly $100 million in
bonding, only to be reimbursed later by the
legislature.  Does anyone have a dollar amount that
this bonding will cost?  I believe the cost is a
percentage of the value of the bonds, isn't it?  Since
the development at Nicollet/Lake, and the development
at Chicago/Lake have both said their projects do not
depend on the Access Project, why the hurry?  Is it
because after spending so much money on a parking
ramp, Wells Fargo still doesn't have their "flyover
ramp"?  Or, is it because project organizers do not
believe the legislature will fund the project on it's
own merits, and prefer to proceed and ask forgiveness
later?  This really doesn't pass the smell test!!

David Piehl
Central

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[Mpls] Money and the drug debate

[heather martens]

Congratulations to Ed Felien for bringing the drug discussion into the
Minneapolis Issues forum. Ed, I suggest you strengthen your platform by
abandoning the “marijuana is good for you” tack and go to the heart of the
issue. It’s about MONEY.

Minneapolis is going to have to raise taxes and cut services because of
projected shortfalls. Pension funds are going broke, but our spending
commitments remain the same. We can resign ourselves to cutbacks in social
services, schools, libraries and parks, or we can stop wasteful spending and
find new sources of revenue.

One big-ticket, wasteful spending item is the police, court and jail/prison
funding dedicated to the incarceration of non-violent drug offenders (and to
the necessary prosecution of avoidable drug-related crime), plus the
spending required to mop up the destruction of families caused by both. One
big untapped revenue source is taxation of the multi-billion dollar illegal
drug industry.

It is totally appropriate for a county commissioner to push for a 10-year
drug regulation program, under which currently illegal drugs would be sold
in government stores, vetted by the FDA to ensure uniform strength/purity.
No advertising of these drugs would be permitted, and the drugs would be
sold in ugly gray paper packages with the phone number of the nearest (fully
funded!) treatment facility prominently displayed. (These ideas are from
Judge James P. Gray’s book, Why Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do
About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs. The author is an Orange
County, CA, Republican.)

If after 10 years we don’t see the results we want – it’s ALWAYS possible to
outlaw the drugs again. I hope Ed can get such a program going in as wide an
area as possible, even though people may think Minneapolis and other urban
areas would stand to gain the most. Police would, after all, be freed up to
deal with property crimes and quality-of-life crimes in our neighborhoods.
If it can be shown that the suburbs also would benefit from the elimination
of state deficits, then that’s the basis of a statewide coalition.

Heather Martens
Kingfield



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Re: [Mpls] An Additional Library Board Budget Meeting

[WizardMarks]

If the library cuts one day of service (they suggested Monday) then 
staff would drop. There are tons of "floaters" and "subs" who fill in 
for vacations, illness, etc. Losing one day means their work hours would 
go. Subs and floaters are not only pages and library aides, but include 
librarians. On this particular point it might be better to run the 
community libraries Monday through Friday and the district libraries 
Tuesday through Saturdays.
WizardMarks, Central

michael libby wrote:

>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Thursday 10 October 2002 17:29, Gibson, Kristi wrote:
>
>[regarding a possible $1.5MM budget shortfall in the MPL]
>
>>Therefore, the Library Board will need to enact one or more of the
>>following service reductions for 2003:
>>
>
>[dire acts deleted for brevity]
>
>Could someone from the Library please detail what technology spending looks 
>like for the Library? I've seen a lot of (new) fancy automated checkout 
>machines that certainly cost more than the expense of a checkout clerk's 
>annual salary (I also rarely see them used, which is the real problem). 
>I've also noticed that the library seems to be running fairly recent 
>releases of Microsoft software... so I have to ask if the collection 
>management software the library uses is dependent on Windows, or if the 
>book database isn't on some serious hardware and most of those windows 
>machines are simply clients.
>
>If the latter is true, there is almost no justification for the expense of 
>licensing Windows for any new client machines (for instance, the 
>ubiquitous "internet terminals"), if you ask me. In my home I run only 
>Free Software  (that's free as in freedom, see http://www.gnu.org/ for 
>more information), and I am able to run a lot of pretty fancy software, 
>all of which cost me nothing but download time to acquire and all of which 
>I am allowed to reprogram (as I am given the source code) and all of which 
>I am free to share with my neighbor. It don't get any better than that!
>
>Obviously existing seat licenses and hardware are paid for and no effort 
>should be exerted to replace them until necessary, but hopefully the 
>replacement cost of technology is considered carefully in the ongoing tech 
>strategy. A partial migration to Free Software should be strongly 
>considered at least as a pilot test, so that a real world study of the 
>costs and other factors can be compared somewhere besides a financial 
>planners spreadsheet.
>
>Looking at the 2001 Annual Report I do not see a single line item that 
>would appear to contain this sort of technology expense, so maybe you've 
>got $1.5MM hiding in there somewhere. But it appears as if the only real 
>place you're going to find a cushion the size of $1.5 million is in staff 
>expense, so whatever solution you settle on pretty much has to have its 
>largest impact in that area. Too bad, librarians are people I'd like to 
>see stay employed, it's one of the professions I respect the most.
>
>I'd suggest no libraries open on Sunday as first step. Why should just a 
>handful be open on that day? Doesn't make sense to me... I don't think one 
>of my nearby libraries is even open on Saturday!
>
>Next, is there a community library that is significantly less visited than 
>the rest, or could be somehow folded into a nearby facility? As I've never 
>managed to make use of it myself, I'd suggest Webber Park (although maybe 
>if it were open on Saturdays I'd find it more useful). North Regional 
>isn't far away, and isn't a library going in at the Grain Belt brewery 
>site? That's not too far away either.
>
>The collection itself seems like a bad place to cut spending, unless there 
>are creative ideas that could lower spending without reducing overall 
>effectiveness. Perhaps certain popular books could have shorter loan 
>spans? No renewals on videos? Less duplication of the collection across 
>branches, especially in the periodicals department (so many periodicals 
>have web versions these days... and there's plenty of internet access to 
>be had at the library)? I'm just throwing out ideas here.
>
> -michael libby (cleveland neighborhood/north mpls)
>
>++
>Michael C. Libby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>public key: http://www.ichimunki.com/public_key.txt
>web site: http://www.ichimunki.com
>++
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>=0+iy
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>
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Re: [Mpls] Drug discussion reconsidered

[WizardMarks]

Legalizing marijuana would make sense to me and might improve the 
farming economy of several states. What I find difficult to imagine 
though, is how to undo the enormous infrastructure created to "fight the 
war on drugs" which was lost on about day 1. As a junkie myself 
(cigarettes) I have often been grateful that they are legal--that could 
change--because I don't know what I might have gotten involved in were 
they illegal. When I see the old junkies on the streets (cocaine, 
heroin) it's so sad. But how do we dismantle all that has become the 
thriving drug industry, like the DEA, the FBI, and the intense 
involvement of city police, county sheriff, state police? I'm not sure 
whether the big drug importer people import just one of the drugs or all 
of them. How do we separate the marijuana from the other stuff?
WizardMarks, Central

Barbara Lickness wrote:

> That is a good thing. My stand is Legalize Marijuana. I have 
> always said the drug problem in Minneapolis was really a zoning issue 
> anyway.  People are operating a retail business in a residential 
> neighborhood. Straight and simple.
>
> Legalize marijuana and it will boost the economy of the Phillips and 
> Whittier neighborhoods tenfold. Then all the enforcement money could 
> be spent on the really dangerous drugs like crack.
>
> Think of the coffee shops that could pop up. "The coffee pot" etc.  It 
> seems to work just fine in Amsterdam. Why not try it here. We 
> certainly aren't keeping it off the streets by keeping it illegal.  
> From what I hear, if we legalized it at least to some degree, we could 
> stop making paper from trees. It really is something to think about. 
>
> I feel the same way about prostitution.  The profession has been 
> around for 2,500 years. Do we really think we can stop it?  If we 
> legalize it at least we give those women or men who are in the 
> profession a chance to run a business in a dignified and regulated manner.
>
> Think of the tax dollars. We could pay off the debt or..fund the 
> NRP!. (I'm not really lobbying for the NRP here. Just havin' some old 
> Minnesota fun)
>
> Barb Lickness/Whittier
>
>  
>
>
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can 
> change the world. Indeed,
> it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
>
>
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[Mpls] City Budget Woes - Retirement Worries are Real for Everyone

[Victoria Heller]

Brandon Lacy asks:
 Does anyone here know exactly how hard it is to get welfare in this
town?

Vicky Heller asks:
 Does anyone here know exactly how hard it is to earn an honest dollar
in this town?

Dyna Sluyer states:
 We do need to maintain enough of a tax base to fund pension benefits
already committed.

Vicky Heller comments:
 Most of the private sector people who are expected to PAY these
pension benefits, don't have any benefits for themselves.

The Ponzi Scheme - An Important Concept to Understand

All of the noble efforts to give people what they want fail ultimately
because there is an unlimited demand for free money.  When the people who
are "expected" to pay, refuse to pay, or are unable to pay, the whole
fantasy crumbles under its own weight.

This is happening in the stock market.
This will happen with Social Security (see note below.)
This will happen with Medicare/Medicaid.
This will happen with pension plans.

Vicky Heller
North Oaks and Cedar-Riverside

Note about Social Security Payments:
Statistically speaking - The average black American man dies at the age of
67, and during the course of his life earns an average of $35,000 per year.
He pays approximately $180,000 into the SS fund (which doesn't really
exist) and receives NOTHING.  One could argue that social security actually
transfers wealth from black men to white women.

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[Mpls] I'm scared of your police force

[Renee Jenson]

From: "Russell Sasaoka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> It's not just the police that has to worry, but the mental institutes that
let these people >out because either there is no room for them or because
there is not enough funding to >insure that those people are cured.

I have never been in a mental institute and I will never be "cured".  I will
always have bipolar.  Most of the time I act pretty "normal" (some people
might argue that point with me) .But there may come a time that I will have
a medical crisis and my mind will be telling my body to do things that are
irrational.  Then I will need help. Depending on how quickly the crisis
comes on, when it comes on, etc., that determines whether medical, police,
or whatever are involved.  I don't know.  It may never happen.  It could
happen tomorrow.

> Just looking at an issue from one end doesn't mean that there is just one
end, like a >spectrum, there are several ends.  People need to look at all
of ends of the problem >before taking a hardcore stand and placing the blame
on one group of people.  Keep in >mind that the Police's main function is to
enforce the law and not be psychiatrists or >case workers...


I am not placing the "blame" on the Police.  I am asking why the Police
chief and Mayor are not arming the Police correctly to deal with the
mentally ill that they have to deal with everyday.  They send the police out
with bullet proof vests, guns, and limited knowledge.  I think that stinks.
The knowledge is out there.  I'm not asking that every officer have a
college degree in psychology.  Puhleeze. I'm just asking that they at least
get the same training that Melissa Schmidt had.

And don't tell me that they "can't afford" to pay for the training.  They
can't afford to NOT pay for the training.  They are losing officers.  Dead.
Start a fund.  Call it the Mellisa Schmidt fund.  Raise money for training.
Get grants.  Do whatever.  But don't let any more officers or mentally ill
people die because the police chief doesn't care how many people he loses or
how many mentally ill people get taken out.  All he's worried about is if
he's staying in budget.  Does somebody know how to motivate that man?

The police are frustrated because they need more options on how to deal with
the mentally ill.  The public is frustrated because they need an educated
police force.  We're not stupid.  We know there will still be casualties -
on both sides- the public and law enforcement - even after we have a fully
trained police force.  But I'm hoping there would less of each.  Just one
less death each year would be nice. More would be fantastic.

Renee Jenson
WI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [Mpls] Conditions in North Minneapolis/Help me understand

[Brandon Lacy]

List:

I think in Dyna's last post, she nailed one of the issues on the head: lack 
of police. But, where are we going to get the money to expand the police 
department, when the city has folks like the Target Center and Gaviidae 
bailing on their bills? It's all cyclical...and the Mayor is going to have 
to be one heck of a creative Cirque du Soleil type to figure out the 
solutions.

I grew up on the North side. I lived on 42nd and Thomas for several years 
before moving to NE Minneapolis. I went to Patrick Henry High School. There 
seems to be an invisible divind line between the Near North Side and the 
Camden area. North Minneapolis has some of the roughest neighborhoods and 
some of the most beautiful neighborhoods in the city. I believe that much of 
the reason for the concentration of poverty in the near Northside (and in 
the Phillips community on the Southside) has to do with the urban renewal 
and gentrification process we went through in the 90's. For example, the 
North Loop just outside of downtown experienced a surge in building 
beautiful lofts and apartment buildings for middle to upper class folks. 
This, of course, excluded any low income folks from the area (although I 
don't know how many were there in the first place). The Camden area 
revitalized and began pushing down on poor folks, pushing them into the Near 
North side area, which has been a low income/rough area for years.

The same thing has happened in South Minneapolis. The Powderhorn area 
revitalized and pushed many low income folks across into Phillips, the 
Lyn-Lake area revitalized and began pushing poor folks east down Lake Street 
(with Powderhorn and Corocoran pushing North and West). The area in between 
has been a low-income area of the city for the past twenty years and our 
neighborhood revitalization only increased the concentrations of poverty in 
those areas.

The question then becomes how do we build a culture of community ownership 
in those traditionally depressed (and now more highly concentrated) areas? 
How do we bring the urban revitalization that has positively impacted so 
much of the rest of the city to the Near North Side, Phillips, etc. If we 
can't figure out the answers to these questions (and I expect our City 
Council and Mayor to do so), then we will have what I call the Washington DC 
effect. We will have beautiful historic neighborhoods and then one will 
cross the street (literally) and be in bombed out blocks full of crime, 
drugs, and the homeless.

-Brandon Lacy Campos
-Powderhorn Park


>From: "Shawn Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Mpls] Conditions in North Minneapolis/Help me understand
>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 07:03:04 -0500
>
>Although I live on the southside of Minneapolis
>and a life long resident of the city, I don't want
>to see the northside of the city to fall apart,
>Dyna, please keep reminding us not to forget about you and your neighbors 
>who want to stay there.
>
>First, what are the assets that exist on the
>northside? Clearly, there must be some! Secondly,
>who are the key people that can effect change in the
>conditions in North Minneapolis? As citizens, what
>can other neighbors do to help northside residents?
>Next, what has been the role of mass media about this
>area of Minneapolis? Finally, I do believe that the
>conditions in North Minneapolis can get better. Why?
>we have no other choice.
>
>Shawn Lewis, Field Neighorhood
>
>P.S. cc to Mayor RT Rybak
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Re: [Mpls] City budget woes- a microeconomic view from Crack Street North

[Bob Velez]

Remember that a lot of the pension problems that are being raised are due to 
the downturn in the economy/stock market; NOT because they are OVERLY generous.

It is very frustrating to constantly defend those working in the public sector 
and their compensation.  With the increase in cost of health care, inflation, 
the cost of living, etc. wages have all but stagnated in real dollars.

The PERA (Public Employees Retirement Association; City/County/State employees 
pension fund & management) has filed suit against AOL/Time Warner charging that 
the devaluation of their stock (which PERA has a chunk of) is due in part to 
their corporate malfeasance.  We need to see more pension managers doing this 
type of thing to penalize companies in which pension money is invested.  Not 
across the board, but penalizing the companies that are found guilty of 
wrongdoing.

Why doesn't the income gap get brought up more?  Instead, the easy targets are 
the folks who work.  Maybe unions HAVE inflated wages "beyond skill sets" 
required.  If they hadn't, what would wages look like across the board now?  
The would be lower overall.  Could you imagine MORE jobs at the minimum wage?

Corporations have done a much more grievous evil by inflating CEO and upper 
management compensation beyond what any individual could ever need.  The 
corporate media has done a great job, however, of directing the frustration of 
the upper middle class at the middle and lower classes rather than at the 
stratospheric class who are running away with the store.
 
Bob Velez
Shingle Creek
Ward 4-1

-- 
Citizen Bob Velez
Green Party endorsed candidate for Hennepin County Commissioner, District 1
AFSCME (Local 34) ENDORSED
http://www.webspawner.com/users/citizenbobvelez/


> >This is a great union perspective on this problem.  We should ignore
> >the fact that the city has been unwise in granting pensions that are
> >a major liability.  We should ignore the fact that work force reductions
> >are often a necessary and wise business practice.  And, we should
> >believe that "growth" (unions can always use new members) is always
> >beneficial.
> >
> >We need to recognize that unions in some professions have
> >inflated wages beyond the skill sets held by their workers.
> >And, we need to recognize that, in the long run, this is not good thing
> >for our country.
> >
> >Michael Atherton
> >Prospect Park


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RE: [Mpls] City budget woes- a microeconomic view from Crack Street North

[Brandon Lacy]

Michael et al,

I agree that there has to be a willingness to learn. But, I've also watched 
that willingness to learn be stamped out  by tracking, racial profiling, and 
concentrated poverty. I've seen this first hand. If all you know and see in 
your life is failure, drugs, crime, and poverty then all you will know is 
the same. It takes a heroic someone to break out of that cycle, and we are a 
tad short on heroes.  There has to be a concentrated effort by those inside 
the cycle and those outside the cycle to break it.

Does anyone here know exactly how hard it is to get welfare in this town? 
Let me give you an example. There was I time when I left my job due to an 
unhealthy work environment and a boss who was meglomaniacal and had a 
problem with both the truth and confidentiality. I had about a months worth 
of savings in my bank account. I was sure that I would be able to find a job 
before my savings ran out, or I would be able to register for unemployment 
as a stop-gap measure until I could finish the resume/interview/hiring 
process. I had a couple of pretty decent prospects. Well, it turned out that 
my two decent prospects hired other candidates. But, I still had my savings 
to go on. So, I registered for unemployment. I received all the paper work, 
and then I received a letter with the information to call in and order my 
first unemployment check. The designated day to call in came, and I called. 
The lovely voice on the machine told me that the order had been processed, 
and my check would be mailed the next day. So, I went ahead and paid out a 
couple of remaining bills, and I expected to pay for rent and some other 
bills with my first unemployment check. But, instead of getting the check, I 
received a letter saying my case was still pending! The first I'd heard of 
it. After talking to the Department of Economic Security (which administers 
unemployment) I fould that my employer was contesting, and it would take 
another 2-4 weeks before I could possibly access money.

So, there I was a college educated professional, out of money, with rent to 
pay. So, I swallowed my pride, and I went down to the Office of Financial 
Assistance, and I attempted to register for emergency assistance. Once 
there, I was told that I did not qualify for emergency assistance for rent 
because the state requires that you prove that your rent is affordable. The 
equation for determining affordable rent is 50% of your gross monthly 
income. Since I had no income at the time, affordable rent for me was 0. In 
addition, if I were to find a job, I would then have to provide a letter of 
eviction from my landlord to get any help. Thusly, I was turned away without 
any support. Luckily, I have friends I could turn to in a time of crisis, 
but I thought to access services I had been paying taxes to support before I 
turned to friends and burden them. I also thought about the fifty other 
people in that office who most likely did not have college educated 
professional friends and family to whom they could turn for support in a 
crisis.

The myth that the welfare system is just handing out checks is just that a 
myth. While I was there, I listened to a man who was asking for cash 
assistance. Only to find that the only way one can qualify for cash 
assistance (without children) is to be completely disabled for the past 30 
days (with doctor proof), and the maximum benefit one can qualify for is 203 
dollars. After that experience, I vowed realized that the often times 
ignorant individuals who are harping about the welfare system haven't clue 
number one as to the reality of the system. If welfare is reformed further, 
we won't have it!

We need to find ways to break cycles of poverty and crime. And, as I said 
before, we need to stop giving the City Council and our elected leaders 
break after break while continuing to scape goat poor folks trying to 
survive. You can lead a horse to water, but I guarentee if the thing doesn't 
drink it's because it isn't thirsty. Have you ever seen a horse that is 
starving for water? At the smell of it, they go semi-beserk trying to get to 
it. And that is what is happening in the poor/depressed/oppressed 
neighborhoods in Minneapolis. The people are starting to break down anyone 
and everyone's door to get to the water inside.

-Brandon Lacy Campos
-Powderhorn Park


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RE: [Mpls] I'm scared of your police force

[Pamela Taylor]

Sorry.  I forget to make the distinction between my responses and Russell's
comments.  There goes my second post for the day.

Pamela

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Pamela Taylor
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Mpls] I'm scared of your police force

A few things to ponder this morning...

RS- It's not just the police that has to worry, but the mental institutes
that
let these people out because either there is no room for them or because
there is not enough funding to insure that those people are cured.

PT- You could be a millionaire and that will not ensure that you get cured.
We
in this society seem to think that throwing money into everything can work
miracles.  We need to put money into the perspective that it belongs.  It
can aid in the progression toward cures and/or treatments (in health
situations as well as educational processes), but a defined set of actions
also need to be part of that.

RS- Just looking at an issue from one end doesn't mean that there is just
one
end, like a spectrum, there are several ends.  People need to look at all of
ends of the problem before taking a hardcore stand and placing the blame on
one group of people.  Keep in mind that the Police's main function is to
enforce the law and not be psychiatrists or case workers...

PT- Enforcing the law IS the MAIN function, but to be critical thinkers and
to
utilize every available avenue to save lives while doing so comes as part of
the job.  I would say that applies to everyone no matter what profession you
choose to be in.  In this day and age when we have the everyday citizens
taking on roles that our government could and should be doing, I have no
qualms about expecting officers to do the same.  I have a sister who has a
mental illness, and at one time many years ago, we had the MPD looking for
her.  Thank goodness they were not the force of today.  They treated her
with the dignity she deserved.

RS- I'm not saying that every cop is good nor every cop is bad, just that
they
are faced with a new job description because the public safty is in danger
and no matter what they do it's a catch 22.  For example: they get called to
a disturbance.  The person could be mentally ill, they are able to resolve
the situation through non-violent means and are in the process of taking the
person into custody, however along the way, somehow the person overcomes the
officer(s) and ends up killing them or seriously hurting them or ends up
seriously hurting others or killing them.

Now the public would say "Why didn't the police do something to prevent this
situation or why didn't they do something to prevent the taking of a life?
In the end there is no right or wrong answer, just that they did something
to prevent something further from happening or they lose their lives.

Maybe it doesn't matter that it was a officer's life was lost because that
is the job that they chose or it's just a cop and who cares at least it
wasn't me or the neighbor next door... but then again it probably doesn't
matter that it's the police that are looking for that missing child, the sex
offender that assaulted the person that you know or the police that are
looking for the killer of 8 people.

It's easy to suggest that the police department change from a lethal weapon
to a non-leathal weapon, but at $500.00 a taser or $2.00 per bean bag shot
and about $300.00 for a non-lethal shotgun and training that goes with that
times the amount of officers that are on staff, the police department would
go broke, then there would be no officers.

PT- Think of the money it will cost a family if the breadwinner of that
family
is shot and killed because their illness was not handled in a manner in
which their life could be preserved.  A family could be thrust into poverty,
the burial costs may be a hardship (especially if they had not insurance).
The emotional cost to the family may be hard to overcome as well.  A
taser...$500.  A human life...priceless.

RS- Shooting for a leg or arm is not feasible either, because with
adrenaline
levels rising in a panic situation, you get tunnel vision and no matter how
much training you have, the basic survival instinct will take over.  This is
why you have more than 4 shots per incident that a officer has to shoot.

PT- If officers can be trained to "shoot to kill" they can be trained to
"shoot
to save."  It has been done before.

RS- I understand the public's frustration, but unless you're on the job, you
don't know the situation.  Sure it's easy to say all this and there will be
people that will say that they don't want to or because they don't have to
and that's why it's the way that they say it is, but I feel that it's an
easy way out and closed minded to think this way.

PT- And unless you have a family member with a mental illness and/or have
lost a
loved one, you may also be taking a close-min

RE: [Mpls] I'm scared of your police force

[Pamela Taylor]

A few things to ponder this morning...

-Original Message- Russell Sasaoka
It's not just the police that has to worry, but the mental institutes that
let these people out because either there is no room for them or because
there is not enough funding to insure that those people are cured.

You could be a millionaire and that will not ensure that you get cured.  We
in this society seem to think that throwing money into everything can work
miracles.  We need to put money into the perspective that it belongs.  It
can aid in the progression toward cures and/or treatments (in health
situations as well as educational processes), but a defined set of actions
also need to be part of that.

Just looking at an issue from one end doesn't mean that there is just one
end, like a spectrum, there are several ends.  People need to look at all of
ends of the problem before taking a hardcore stand and placing the blame on
one group of people.  Keep in mind that the Police's main function is to
enforce the law and not be psychiatrists or case workers...

Enforcing the law IS the MAIN function, but to be critical thinkers and to
utilize every available avenue to save lives while doing so comes as part of
the job.  I would say that applies to everyone no matter what profession you
choose to be in.  In this day and age when we have the everyday citizens
taking on roles that our government could and should be doing, I have no
qualms about expecting officers to do the same.  I have a sister who has a
mental illness, and at one time many years ago, we had the MPD looking for
her.  Thank goodness they were not the force of today.  They treated her
with the dignity she deserved.

I'm not saying that every cop is good nor every cop is bad, just that they
are faced with a new job description because the public safty is in danger
and no matter what they do it's a catch 22.  For example: they get called to
a disturbance.  The person could be mentally ill, they are able to resolve
the situation through non-violent means and are in the process of taking the
person into custody, however along the way, somehow the person overcomes the
officer(s) and ends up killing them or seriously hurting them or ends up
seriously hurting others or killing them.

Now the public would say "Why didn't the police do something to prevent this
situation or why didn't they do something to prevent the taking of a life?
In the end there is no right or wrong answer, just that they did something
to prevent something further from happening or they lose their lives.

Maybe it doesn't matter that it was a officer's life was lost because that
is the job that they chose or it's just a cop and who cares at least it
wasn't me or the neighbor next door... but then again it probably doesn't
matter that it's the police that are looking for that missing child, the sex
offender that assaulted the person that you know or the police that are
looking for the killer of 8 people.

It's easy to suggest that the police department change from a lethal weapon
to a non-leathal weapon, but at $500.00 a taser or $2.00 per bean bag shot
and about $300.00 for a non-lethal shotgun and training that goes with that
times the amount of officers that are on staff, the police department would
go broke, then there would be no officers.

Think of the money it will cost a family if the breadwinner of that family
is shot and killed because their illness was not handled in a manner in
which their life could be preserved.  A family could be thrust into poverty,
the burial costs may be a hardship (especially if they had not insurance).
The emotional cost to the family may be hard to overcome as well.  A
taser...$500.  A human life...priceless.

Shooting for a leg or arm is not feasible either, because with adrenaline
levels rising in a panic situation, you get tunnel vision and no matter how
much training you have, the basic survival instinct will take over.  This is
why you have more than 4 shots per incident that a officer has to shoot.

If officers can be trained to "shoot to kill" they can be trained to "shoot
to save."  It has been done before.

I understand the public's frustration, but unless you're on the job, you
don't know the situation.  Sure it's easy to say all this and there will be
people that will say that they don't want to or because they don't have to
and that's why it's the way that they say it is, but I feel that it's an
easy way out and closed minded to think this way.

And unless you have a family member with a mental illness and/or have lost a
loved one, you may also be taking a close-minded approach.

I get frustrated with easy answers without looking into the whole situation,
the police are frustrated, the public is frustrated, but you have to admit,
it takes money to do this and it's money that the police department doesn't
have to keep it's officers trained as much as the public would like.

...and the constituents are frustrated.  Like it or not, a police officers
j

[Mpls] Conditions in North Minneapolis/Help me understand

[Shawn Lewis]

Although I live on the southside of Minneapolis 
and a life long resident of the city, I don't want
to see the northside of the city to fall apart,
Dyna, please keep reminding us not to forget about you and your neighbors who want to 
stay there.

First, what are the assets that exist on the
northside? Clearly, there must be some! Secondly,
who are the key people that can effect change in the
conditions in North Minneapolis? As citizens, what
can other neighbors do to help northside residents?
Next, what has been the role of mass media about this
area of Minneapolis? Finally, I do believe that the
conditions in North Minneapolis can get better. Why?
we have no other choice.

Shawn Lewis, Field Neighorhood

P.S. cc to Mayor RT Rybak
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[Mpls] Why we're losing the Northside

[dyna]

It's after 3 am, and I'd planned to be asleep by now. The 
party in front of my house is just breaking up. For the last hour 
several carloads of drunken young men have been smoking dope, blaring 
"music", and racing engines in front of my home.

Meanwhile, next door to the recently busted 
crack/prostitution house a house size whole has appeared in the 
ground. Into it will be plopped a quick and dirty structure, to be 
sold to unsuspecting new arrivals for an exorbitant price. Within a 
few months a fence will go up and bars and burglar alarms will appear 
on the windows. The new owners will bail as soon as possible, and 
after a decade or so and a lot of subsidies the property will go tax 
forfeit again.

3:35 am... MPD channel 2 reports 2 vehicles looking like some 
of the "partyers" involved in an incident. No surprise, the new 
Mustang raced away, clearly never stopped for the signs up the 
street. The other vehicle is a new Tahoe. So much for another 
listmembers blaming crime solely on poverty...

About now someone will chime in "why didn't I call 911?". 
This is all misdemeanor stuff, as I didn't see any of the telltale 
pyrotechnics of crack ignition. I wish our police force could crack 
down on livability crimes like New York City did... they have twice 
the per capita police force we have though. We at least need to get 
the most out of the tiny force we have. Tallying the unit numbers 
heard on MPD radio, It appears that even on the a weekend evening 
there are only aboout 15 patrol cars working in the 4th (Northside) 
precinct. Most of these are one person cars, so we have maybe 20 
officers on the street. Multiply that by 5 precincts and we have 
maybe 100 officers of an 800 some officer force on the street at most.

Then their are the "details". Last weekend fire and ambulance 
responded to a "difficulty breathing" call up the street. They then 
waited for a good part of an hour for a squad to arrive so they could 
safely tend to the injured. That same weekend I noted several squads 
parked behind the convention center, "protecting" the chiefs of 
police who weren't even their at the time from some "threat" that 
never materialized.

The prognosis: Anybody here been to the burnt out inner city 
neighborhoods of Gary, Detroit, Philly, etc.? That's where we're 
headed. We have a narrow window of opportunity to save this city... 
and we're missing it.

trying to sleep in Hawthorne,

Dyna Sluyter
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