Re: [Mpls] Study: Metro Smoking Bans Haven't Hurt Sales
On Thursday, December 8, 2005, at 08:46 AM, gemgram wrote: And one wonders when the freedoms Mr. Driscoll enjoys will also be taken? What sins of the flesh that he enjoys will be outlawed? Perhaps reading and participating in Minneapolis issues? On Thursday, December 8, 2005, at 09:46 AM, Michael Thompson wrote: Smoking ban proponents are no different in their stance than staunch pro-lifers. Both want to take choices away. Smoking is not a freedom per se, and smoking is not a choice for those who inhale second-hand smoke. Freedom is the unfettered ability to exercise choice as long as it does not harm others, (e.g. the old adage that we are not free to yell fire in a crowded theatre). I don't see any objection at all to an adult smoking as much as he or she wants in a space that is not affecting other people. Smoking bans protect the 80% majority of non-smokers from the unhealthy effects of second-hand smoke. Smoking in public places is that which takes choice away, not the other way around. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock President and CEO Wittstock Associates 913 19th Ave SE Minneapolis, MN 55414 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Study: Metro Smoking Bans Haven't Hurt Sales
On Thursday, December 8, 2005, at 06:34 PM, Michael Atherton wrote: Laura Waterman Wittstock wrote: I don't see any objection at all to an adult smoking as much as he or she wants in a space that is not affecting other people. What if all of the people in that space have agreed to accept the risk of secondhand smoke? Interesting question. I think some of the arguments in individual tobacco cases were based on insufficient warning of the harm caused by tobacco. Would personal liability pertain as well, i.e.could the non smoker, after having given consent later claim harm because he/she was not sufficiently warned about the danger? It doesn't seem acceptance of risk is a permanent thing. Best wishes, Laura Southeast Como Laura Waterman Wittstock President and CEO Wittstock Associates 913 19th Ave SE Minneapolis, MN 55414 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Apathy Wins
On Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Leurquin, Ronald wrote: What I wonder is what is the reason so many people are not voting. I hear a lot of opinions on why, and god only knows I have my own ideas and opinions. I think voters do not vote because they do not have sufficient motivation to do so. I would not call that apathy. I would not give it any sort of label. I really like the Kid Vote idea. My grandchildren voted Tuesday and got up at 6 am to get ready to be there when the polls opened. They were excited. Of course I had taken them on lit drops and they did their part in asking people to come out and vote in the primary and general election. I've spoken to perhaps hundreds of people who got sort of vague when I asked them if they planned on voting this year. I did my best to give great reasons for voting and I'm sure I succeeded with some. But with some, I could still see a hesitancy after we talked. It is not a lack of concern about who gets elected. It isn't fear, either. I'd guess that for some they live in a world of too many choices to make. Time for them is a shrinking commodity. For some reason that we do not know, voting drops down the priority list in their crowded lives. I think the challenge is to raise that civic duty on the priority list, but do so without blaming. The more we blame, the more some of these will retreat into their independence to exercise an option. I really like education. I really like letting younger people vote. Start upstream and work hard on that. If I could clone the excitement of my granddaughters who practically could not sleep because Tuesday was voting day, we would have a great future voter population. What we are up against is the great middle - those demographic numbers that tell us fewer are voting each election cycle. And as we know, motivating adults is much more challenging than motivating children and youth. In that regard, I congratulate IndianVote, that increased the American Indian vote by a million nationwide. There are models. It can be done, but it is one voter at a time. Best, Laura Southeast (Como) Laura Waterman Wittstock President and CEO Wittstock Associates 913 19th Ave SE Minneapolis, MN 55414 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Thanks
The ARTISTS FOR LIBRARIES fundraiser for Sheldon Mains and I was a wonderful success. Many thanks to the Frank Stone Gallery, Sam and Sylvia Kaplan, John See, Rosy Guthrie, Anita Duckor, Kelly Morgan, and Bev Mains. Plus thanks to the lapel sign makers Vivian Big Eagle and Alice McBride. They were a big hit and very artfully done! Many local artists dropped by to say hello and show support for our wonderful libraries. Please stop by the Frank Stone Gallery to see the two artists who have work there. Both artists stayed for the event and mingled with the guests. http://www.frankstonegallery.com/shows/2004_fall/ Best wishes to all of the candidates today! Laura Southeast (Como) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] library fines
On Friday, November 4, 2005, at 12:49 PM, wmmarks wrote: please tell us your position on library fines vis-a-vis the budget. Other library board candidates, could you weigh in on this? I'd like to de-couple the discussion from poor people for the moment. Whether or not the poor should have to pay fines for late books or materials is a separate question. Relative to the number of library cards out there for Minneapolis, how many are dormant because of fines? That's something we need to know (not that the library does not know this, but I don't have that information now). Have we moved past the time when fines are an effective way to keep the maximum number of books and materials in circulation? That's another question well worth pursuing. And, there is a relation to the first question. If the number of dormant cards due to overdue materials is large, say in the youth population, then more has to be done to get this population back in the libraries and using the materials and services.That could very well be a change in the fine structure, or its elimination. It could also be other things we have not discovered yet. There are other borrowing entities that have done away with fines or never had them to begin with. These strategies are tied to the overall marketing plans - note Netflick and now Blockbuster. The goal is maximum circulation. For the library system, we need the optimum number of items in circulation (available for borrowing) and we need the optimum number of borrowers to be actively using the system. If that can be achieved by eliminating fines, I would favor it. The cost of collecting has risen, and with tightened budgets for operating, more dollars spent serving patrons is a good thing, even if it is a sliver more. So, vis a vis the budget, if materials loss through failure to return is less than the cost of time to recover the materials, the budget is better off with no fines. But it is a big step that requires research and a pilot study period. In the end, we want more service in the front of the store than back in non-public area doing work that does not pay off in higher patron satisfaction and greater use of the library system. Thanks, Laura Southeast - Como Neighborhood Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Mains/Wittstock Fundraiser 11/5
You are most cordially invited to a fundraiser for Sheldon Mains and Laura Waterman Wittstock, two candidates for Minneapolis Library Board. Join us at the very cool Frank Stone Gallery and meet artists from all over the city that support Sheldon and Laura. Arts are vitally important to the cultural life of Minneapolis and libraries are irreplaceable resources that artists use in creating and showing their work. ARTISTS FOR LIBRARIES WHEN: Saturday, November 5, 2005 TIME: 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. LOCATION: Frank Stone Gallery 1224 Second Street NE, Minneapolis 55413 612-617-9965 SUGGESTED CONTRIBUTION: Artists: $10.00 Others $35.00 Enjoy tasty tidbits and wine provided through the generosity and support of Sam Sylvia Kaplan ARTIST SPONSORS: Rosy Simas Guthrie, Choreographer J.T. Guthrie, Painter, Photographer Michael Thomsen, Painter Marilyn Lindstrom, Public Artist, Painter Marcie Rendon, Writer Malichansouk Kouanchao, Painter, Web Designer Britta Hallin, Performance / Visual Artist Dawn Strom, Dancer Kristina Graber, Dancer Kelly Morgan, Painter Aldo Moroni, Sculptor Nathanael Flink, Painter Julie Buffalohead, Painter Jina Penn, Dancer/Sketch Artist Robert DesJarlait, Muralist Thanks! - Laura and Sheldon Como Neighborhood and Seward Neighborhood Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Police math
On Friday, October 14, 2005, at 09:03 AM, David Brauer wrote: From Rochelle Olson's story on Peter McLaughlin's Police Federation endorsement (which was nearly impossible to find on the Strib's redesigned Web site, by the way): http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5668374.html Again, just trying to get to an apples-to-apples understanding. Sincere replies only. Speaking of apples to apples. Olson quotes Candidate McLaughlin with the following: He compared the direction he would go to fixing a leaky roof on a house instead of doubling a mortgage payment, which he said Rybak has done. I understand he is saying utilization of resources but do we have a leaky roof? It seems to me the apples to apples comparison is paying down the debt or passing the payments (and more interest) on to the next group of taxpayers in line. Best wishes, Laura Como Neighborhood Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] McLaughlin's BLIMP
On Monday, October 10, 2005, at 08:09 PM, gemgram wrote: After all what's on the blimp? One side says Had it up to here? the other says, Enough is Enough! Not Surrender R.T.? Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Council races - who, and why?
On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 03:07 PM, Michael Hohmann wrote: I found property taxes to be the top issues on people's minds as I went door-to-door before the primary. Other than a somewhat surprising lack of interest, I found some people to be concerned about the vagaries of personality or the concerns of their particular neighborhood or even block. On the other hand, there were those who were very concerned that we not change leadership when the challenger has not made his case adequately. Single term mayors are not good for the city, they say. Are the Mayoral and CC candidates (and MPRB, MPL Board and BET candidates as well) going to commit to using and following a multi-year planning and budgeting process Or, will we regress back to a deficit-laden, credit card-spending mentality The library board has already committed to a multi year planning and budgeting process. People of modest means and those on fixed incomes are concerned with making ends meet. Very true. And concerned about not being heard. The increased cost of energy, post Katrina/Rita, will add millions of dollars in unexpected costs to City budgets over the next year-- and thereafter, as energy production lags demand. How much more money is expected to be spent on energy by the city (and Park/Library, etc.) over the next year, as compared with the average annual energy expenditure over the past several years? That's what multi-year budgeting is for, to make those comparisons and to know the direction of trends (and later the impact). One mitigating factor is that the new Central library is will be vastly more energy efficient and as each community library is repaired and/or remodeled, energy efficiencies will be seen there. How much more money is expected to be spent is an area of conjecture. Budget forecasts will include that but the guesses could be wrong either way. A goal would be smaller adjustments. The weakness in the system is that library equipment has been nickled and dimed for decades. It's the unexpected cost that throws the budget and that should not be. A full examination of operating needs has to addressed by the city as part of responsible debt reduction and multi-year budgeting that anticipates the needs of depreciated items needing repair or replacement at some point. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] In Ballot Box: Fifth Ward fireworks
On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 06:57 PM, Tamir Nolley wrote: Samuels has also used the terms Alpha Male ... It probably isn't worth much, but the alpha male's primary role is to be the consort of the alpha female and sire the pups. One world this term refers to is that of wolves, hyenas and wild dogs. In that world the alpha female is the leader of the pack. She directs not only the hunting but the procreation pecking order. Taking terminology from science isn't unheard of, but at least we should get the gender orientation right. And if we must have a human equivalent, think Prince Philip of England. Among apes, our cousins, alpha males are said to mate more often. However dominance hierarchies prevail in ape society, which do not in human society. (Well, unless you count polygamous Mormons and harems where humans actually live in groups, but that is accomplished under duress). And it should be remembered that among apes as among humans the selection of the mating male is done by the female, not the other way around, appearances notwithstanding. That's procreation for you. Politics in Minneapolis is another matter. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mayor Rybak and panhandling
On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 07:48 PM, Terrell Brown wrote: Under the leadership of Mayor Rybak, panhandling has become the city's leading growth industry. Now you can find downtown panhandlers at least as early as 6 in the morning, something that you would never see before Rybak assumed command at City Hall. I gave my first cash to a Minneapolis panhandler downtown shortly after moving here from Washington, D.C. in 1973. Best wishes, Laura Southeast Minneapolis (Como) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mayor Rybak and panhandling
On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 12:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There needs to be money spent to educate public policy makers about the best practices that have been successfully put into place in other cities such as Philly that have dramatically decreased street homelessness by providing outreach, liason with our Police, housing and supports to help people keep their housing. If I have cash on me, I always give some to pan handlers. I consider it a voluntary tax necessary where our system has failed some of our citizens. I think Katrina ripped off the happy face of New Orleans to reveal the deep poverty that comes of societies and systems unwilling to help. Minneapolis is far, far better to all of its citizens. But there is more to do, obviously. Best wishes, Laura Southeast Minneapolis (Como) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
On Monday, September 19, 2005, at 02:31 PM, Dorie Rae Gallagher wrote: If we were not spending huge amounts of revenue on that golden gilded library downtown we might have had more cash available for our community libraries. Referendum designated capital dollars for the new central library and renovations of the community libraries cannot be exchanged for operating dollars for the community libraries. Nearly 70% of Minneapolis voters said yes to the new central library and community library renovations. Linden Hills, Bottineau, Franklin, and Sumner have been completed. East Lake and North Regional are underway. The Walker roof (deck) replacement should be completed by the end of January, 2006. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mayoral strategy
On Thursday, September 15, 2005, at 08:36 PM, Terrell Brown wrote: Apparently the Rybak's think Minneapolis Public Schools don't provide the level of education that the kids can get out in the 'burbs. Still when part of your job is to support and promote the city, no matter what you vocalize, what is the message you are sending when you send the kids to a pricy school out in the 'burbs. It does go a ways to support the claim that Rybak is all talk. Choosing schools for one's own children is a deeply personal and individual matter. Even though my children went to public schools, except for a stint in Catholic schools when the Jacksonville, FL public schools were found to be racist and incompetent, I don't criticize others for not sending their children to public schools. This is largely a partisan charge, with some notable cases in point, such as the criticism of President Jimmy Carter for having his daughter in a private school. He capitulated and switched. It was a disaster for the child. Nothing good was done. Our family now has a mixture of grandchildren in private school (one born at one pound and in need of special schooling at a pre school), three in public school (the great Marcy Open), and we are considering private school for a fifth grader who just needs more support at this time. Would I say that as a DFLer my grandchildren must go to public school or it will seem I am not promoting the city? No, I would not. I would say whatever my grandchildren need in education is what we will try to provide to the best of our ability as a family. Without knowing the reasons the Rybak children go to private school I find it very disrespectful of them and their family to lay a charge against the mayor simply on face value. These kinds of charges do us no good and they demean our efforts to run campaigns on the issues. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
On Thursday, September 15, 2005, at 07:21 PM, Erik Riese wrote: Perhaps we should institute an election quorum. Say 60% in a primary and 85% in a general. Unless we get that level of participation the election is void and we have to have a do over. At some point we could force a rotation of the candidates. The candidates would be forced to put their efforts into real get out the vote instead of just getting out their voters. I don't believe the cause of low voter turnout is lack of candidate effort, therefore, forcing candidates to meet voter quotas will not have the result desired. Unless a society wide responsibility is undertaken, voter turnout will continue to dwindle. Long before I was a candidate I worked on get out the vote campaigns. These efforts are needed many times over for the same voters and for new voters. I'm a supporter of engaging younger people and lowering the voting age to 16. When we see low voter turnouts in these local elections it is a call to all of us to work for the civic good together. Representative government works best when it is highly representative of voter choice. Nevertheless, when 15% of the voters choose, that is still representative government, but the 85% have given away their power of choice. That's the message that needs to be broadly communicated: don't let others choose your government for you. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Protect Safe Neighborhoods
On Tuesday, September 13, 2005, at 11:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked down King's Highway on Sunday where the mayor lives and nearly every house had a Rybak campaign sign. Obviously life is good in their neighborhood. A cop or two to respond to the very occasional property crime and burglar alarm in their half-million dollar plus homes is plenty in sunny southwest. Apparently it will take more than a few murders of people engaged in high-risk lifestyles to wake us up. Lawn signs equate to low property crime and thus more murders are needed? I happened to walk last night along River Road and Cecil on the Mississippi east coast and saw many McLaughlin lawn signs. What do you think that portends for this affluent neighborhood? Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Wittstock and Associates 913 19th Avenue SE Minneapolis, MN 55414 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] A different take on Dean Z FBI investigation
On Saturday, September 10, 2005, at 01:17 PM, Barbara Lickness wrote: I would say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. He believed four years ago that some responsibility for the Brian Herron scandal should lay at the feet of Sharon Sayles Belton. I believe four years later that some responsibility for the Zimmermann scandal should also lay at R.T.'s feet. On Saturday, September 10, 2005, at 02:45 PM, Barbara Lickness wrote: I will say unequivocally that Robert Lilligren nor any of his campaign members had nothing whatsoever to do with the dilemma that Dean Zimmermann is in. The notion that any of us are somehow involved in this scandal is utterly ridiculous and completely false. It is probably best to assume (1) the Zimmermann allegations are yet to be proven and (2) implying others are involved or culpable in some way is groundless speculation. Let's wait until the jury comes in. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] From Candidates Library Board Forum
On Monday, September 5, 2005, at 05:23 PM, Anderson Turpin wrote: Pitting interests against each other is exactly what the Board is supposed to do. I went to the candidate forum to discover what the priorities were for each candidate, but you didn't answer that. You can search for new funding sources, but that function is secondary to your responsibility to spend the money responsibly. Each year the library board approves its operating budget. That includes decisions on how much is allocated for personnel, the collection, and keeping the libraries running. In that way priorities are set are annually. When revenue fell, the library board voted to keep all libraries open. There was a cost for that. Over 70 jobs were lost. Some library programs are funded by outside sources and some are funded by the operating budget. Even cutting 100% of those programs will not result in Saturday hours to all libraries. Restoring a few libraries to 40 or 50 hours a week will involve closing many others. Addressing the $3 million gap in this way is a decision the library board has thus far rejected. Private sources are not likely or reliable substitutes for tax revenue. Most funders are reluctant to replace lost government dollars or refuse to replace them. Others will give one time grants but not ongoing operating revenue. Still others will give for special programs that serve the poor, disadvantaged, or that have some other special population distinction. Those special program dollars cannot be used to restore library hours per se. Growing the tax revenue pie is the most feasible way to restore stability to the system. Sheldon and I have the priority of growing the pie. The library board is elected city wide and represents the voters city wide. Every library is included. Not paying attention to revenues will have dire consequences in 2008 when the library budget is expected to be out of balance and unable to meet current expenses. More severe cuts will come unless we act now. The way to do that is to make the case, effectively and convincingly that the entire library system must have revenue sufficient to operate as the great public knowledge and education enterprise it is. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Park Board considering selling park land (BluffStreet-Gasworks)
On Wednesday, August 31, 2005, at 09:46 PM, Michael Hohmann wrote: Perhaps our parklands should be put into a permanent, protective trust that protects and preserves, regardless of management entity or personalities involved at any point in time? A land trust for future generations. What lands should/should not be included in such a trust? Is this a concept worth considering? Pros/cons? Any thoughts on the matter from list members, MPRB candidates?? This reminds me of the great foresight Beatrix Potter had to add land to the National Trust in the UK. The land trust idea is a very good one and I think it will work here. Thanks Michael for this excellent idea. Let's try to make it work. When she died on 22 December 1943, Beatrix Potter left fourteen farms and 4000 acres of land to the National Trust, together with her flocks of Herdwick sheep. The Trust now owns 91 hill farms, many of which have a mainly Herdwick landlord's flock with a total holding of about 25000 sheep. This was her gift to the nation, her own beloved countryside for all to enjoy. http://www.visitcumbria.com/bpotter.htm Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] From Candidates Library Board Forum
On Monday, August 22, 2005, at 06:54 PM, Mark V Anderson wrote: The rest of the candidates pretty much ducked my question, but Eric came out with a viable idea. I have at least one of my votes on September 13 figured out. ( what expenses the Board could cut to bring back Saturday hours to all the Minneapolis branches.) I hope you don't think I was ducking when I said I would not cut any existing operating funds to put more money into restored library hours. I said increased revenue sources are needed to do this and this is the basis of Sheldon''s and my campaign. Taking from existing operating dollars is not feasible, not good policy, and it pits interests against each other. We need a bigger pie, not a pie sliced differently.. That takes hard work. It is not the easy answer but it is the best answer for the long run. Thanks, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: More Fundraising ideas
On Friday, August 19, 2005, at 09:42 AM, Aaron Street wrote: An off-the-cuff idea for raising more money for libraries: I recognize that the beauty of a public library is that it provides free access to information to the public. But what about exploring some sort of suggested contribution program where people checking out books are asked (verbally, or by a donation box, or on a bookmark) to contribute a suggested amount - let's say $1.00 per book. Alan Hooker's idea of a dedicated license plate is better, I think. I put forward this idea before Kit Hadley came on board and it was met with very little enthusiasm, to put it politely. Nevertheless, Alan's idea is a good one and should be given a better chance now that we have a new team on board and new ideas are being generated. I don't like a volunteer fee at the point of borrowing because free public libraries should remain free to all. There may be some room for rentals of very new media or something like that, but that is a dying market and probably not feasible. On the other hand, fees for special services is feasible. I promoted the idea of volunteers in the business and foundation center areas. I even volunteered to help set it up and work for it (for free). Customers who need special help will have fee-based access to experts who can guide them individually or in small groups to complete their research. This is not a big money maker but it will contribute to use of the collections, traffic into the new Central, and added value to what the library already offers. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: More Fundraising Ideas
On Friday, August 19, 2005, at 01:55 PM, Aaron Street wrote: Laura, did you even read my complete post? I was quite explicit that I don't want a user-fee either. But what about exploring some sort of suggested contribution program - let's say $1.00 per book. A volunteer fee is when a specific value is placed on an item. It can be called a contribution, but it is a fee. However, even if there were no value and it was a contribution, I would not support soliciting for funds at the point of check out in public libraries. Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] From Candidates Library Board Forum
Responding Part II On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, at 03:46 PM, wmmarks wrote: Fourth: not one candidate had anything to say about thinking outside the box in an atmosphere where virtually no one in management can do that. How astute does that make present board members? Zip, zero, nada clue. The Mayor has endorsed three candidates: Alan Hooker, Sheldon Mains and myself. All three of us are out of the box thinkers in that we know the current course of revenue projections, increasing need for services, and points of service all need very serious examination and emphasis if we are to deliver a library system that meets the expectations of the public. All three of us have put forward new ideas. Please see our web sites for more information. Fifth: the culture of MPL is one of backbiting pettiness. Not one candidate talked about how to change that paradigm to one which would serve the patrons better. I realize morale is low. That has been the painful outcome of the revenue cuts. And, before I was appointed, there had been a serious rift between management and trustees. We have gone through a governance training process, a strategic planning process, and we have had an employee survey to help guide us and give indicators of change readiness and expectations. The board also held a series of listening sessions in which the public was invited to comment on the loss of revenue and what to do about it. The public that came said keep the buildings open no matter how few hours they operate. I am deeply concerned about the loss of union workers. This is a very serious matter. It is not only a loss of valuable talent, it is a loss to the public that will be hard to recover from. I look at this as the truth behind closed libraries. It is more than the buildings in my mind. It is all those talented people who are not there anymore. The dignity of work is very important to me so I take it seriously when Wizard says there is backbiting pettiness. I will take steps to find out more about that. On another level, city council and the mayor are now talking about dissolving the library board and making themselves leaders of the library. The Mayor at the May 14, 2005 city DFL convention stated that he supports an independent Library Board. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] From Candidates Library Board Forum
Responding in two parts: Part I On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, at 03:46 PM, wmmarks wrote: Having librarians on the board--including Virginia Holte--is not OK with me. It skewers the issues from the needs of the patrons to the needs of the librarians. I really feel great about so many candidates - citizens all - who care and have passion about libraries. I've come to know almost all of them and they are all very fine people. The choice for voters is very diverse. The DFL has endorsed six candidates: Alan Hooker, Laura Waterman Wittstock, Sheldon Mains, Gary Thaden, Rod Krueger, and Laurie Savran. AFSCME has endorsed Alan Hooker, Laura Waterman Wittstock, Sheldon Mains, Gary Thaden, and Rod Krueger. AFL-CIO COPE has endorsed Alan Hooker, Laura Waterman Wittstock, Sheldon Mains, Gary Thaden and Rod Krueger. And there are many other endorsements for this group. These endorsements represent thousands of voters. The candidates answered questions in detail and explained their views. The endorsements are meaningful and valuable in this election process. In my opinion, we have passed careful review and tests of our suitability to be excellent library trustees. What was patently clear was that most of those asking for our vote were pretty well clueless on what libraries are all about. For example: no one seemed to understand that libraries are only about books secondarily. I really respect Wizard and her contributions to this list. On this point, I would have to say that the number of candidates (19) plus the time restraint (90 minutes) equals less than optimum time for probing questions. Therefore its really hard for me to say anyone is clueless because there isn't much chance to hear the full views. I'd urge everyone to look at the web sites of the candidates, pick up their literature and call them on the phone with questions. Second, the library wants to both take money raised by individual community libraries downtown and to have a newly installed person(s) in management choose what books the community libraries should have. I got a similar question in the forum from Wizard about book selection. Here's what I said: Under the pre-2003 decentralized collection development approach, over 65 different staff made selection decisions, resulting in inefficiencies and duplication of staff time and money, a loss of discounts, and highly inconsistent collections in terms of circulation and broad community needs. Community librarians can communicate directly with selectors about the needs of their particular branches, and on-line forms have been developed to facilitate that communication. Selectors frequently visit community libraries for review and discussion with staff, and there are cross-divisional conversations at every level of the organization about how best to develop dynamic and relevant collections system-wide. Is there room for improvement? Yes. I said I would take Wizard's concerns back for discussion and try to find the middle ground where the system continues to be more efficient and cost effective and individual community library choices are honored. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime and Punishment
We in society decided a long time ago that we were not going to pay for institutionalizing mental patients and instead moved to medication on an outpatient basis. This has not worked. We have very large numbers of people who are living in the streets or nearly living in the streets. We have large numbers of people who are uninsured and undiagnosed and they are living (if not cared for by their families) in the street or almost in the street. When these people come into contact with the rest of us, we don't want them near us. But at the same time, we don't want them institutionalized or we don't want to pay for the cost of treating them. It is a dilemma. We don't recognize that the cute little child will someday grow up to be a strawberry prostitute (I confess I don't know what that means). And we don't want to help the cute little child. We would rather incarcerate the prostitute or heroin addict. This is not a police and safety issue at root. We could help the police a great deal by changing public policy but that seems to be more than the public will can handle. When the tipping point will come is anybody's guess. Best wishes, Laura On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 05:48 AM, Guy Gambill wrote: Many chronic substance and alcohol abusers, as well as, those who are truly addicts in a physiological sense, are also impacted by other issues: They are the victims of child abuse and sexual assault; many suffer from PTSD (combat vets from Vietnam would be a prime and well-known example); those who suffer from FAS; people who cannot afford access to-or pay for-medications that would alleviate the symptomologies prevalent in sufferers of bi-polar disorder, major depression, shizophrenia and schizo- affective disorder, and a wide array of other psychiatric disorders--many with a definitive physiological component... Wizard: Anyone who has thought about it will tell you that whether you have a million issues or only one, if you are an addict, the first thing to do is deal with the addiction. You'll get that info from AA, from pricey Hazelton, or from a much humbler treatment facility. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] crime and punishment
On Sunday, August 14, 2005, at 07:52 PM, wmmarks wrote: At the camp Mr. X will have a full day every day. Mr. X will be told, at sentencing, that if he fails at Camp Ripley, he will be transferred to Stillwater (or wherever) where he will do the 8 years, plus more time for having wasted resources and the opportunity at Camp Ripley. My pals and I think that this could be a partial solution to the revolving door syndrome. Any commentary? All things being equal it would work in the way that public school works for the 60% that can mentally and emotionally tolerate the experience. In today's world (i.e. adults ages 19 to 50 or so) come in different states of ability to deal with living in the world. The biggest majority are not criminals at all. However for them and those who are criminals, there is some percentage of both that has great difficulty. This comes from birth (congenital) disorders and conditions, inherited (genetic) disorders and conditions, and illnesses, trauma, and disorders contracted while living from birth to the age when the change occurred. Just as we have a tough time diagnosing these individuals as they pass through the public school systems, we also can't generally discern a garden variety criminal from someone with a deep disorder. I suppose its because the art of medicine is focused on the population that can pay for accurate diagnoses. The rest get no attention. And, of course the bar for a judicial finding of insanity is set very, very high. It's a good idea to have a Camp Ripley sort of second chance at school for those who can succeed. But the FAS or FAE young Indian man who kills two people because he wants to belong to his gang and will follow orders no matter what the moral choice, won't be helped at Ripley and he will go right to Stillwater, live out his life and die in the system, undiagnosed. His mother will be clueless that she doomed her unborn child those many years ago before the killings. Two innocent people will have lost their lives because their paths crossed with this undiagnosed and untreated individual. Ripley yes, but preventing the criminality of those who were doomed before birth is an even bigger job and one in which we have to leave blame at the door it order to see the issue with a clearer mind. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Let Them Eat Beans, Rice and Veggies
On Saturday, August 13, 2005, at 03:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the Hennepin County Detention Center inmates are served meat at least twice a day. This costs the taxpayers a fortune. Inmates can eat mostly vegetarian meals as do billions of people around the world. This will not only cost the taxpayers less it will be better for the planet. Somehow when people become convicted criminals some of the rest of us think that means we have total control over their lives. Our Constitution does not permit that, thank goodness. Otherwise we would sink as a society to the lowest point generally acceptable. We are too fat, yes. We are getting diabetes at an alarming rate, yes. But the County Detention Center does not hold convicted criminals for years at a time. Their life eating styles were set well before they got convicted and they will resume when they get out of their (relatively) short stays. So is the meatless idea to save money or for their health? Given the short time for intervention, I would say it is to save money. Not that there isn't an opportunity for intervention. Diabetes prevention education and nutrition education can and should be taught, but I suspect the money issue would come up very quickly. After all, the convicts aren't in there for their health, are they? No, the punishers would say no education. Back to meatless meals. Are they really cheaper? To provide fresh vegetables, fresh fruits, some proteins to round out the nutritional intake recommended, and good quality carbs - that's not cheap. I am on such a diet and it is costing me about 20% more than when I was eating bad foods. Caesar salads, mock duck, ratatouille or moussaka for the inmates? Not a bad idea. But it won't save money. Best regards, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Library candidate forums/Q A's
On Thursday, August 11, 2005, at 01:02 PM, c lee wrote: Why could Gratia Countryman keep the libraries open during the Great Depression--including aux. services to union halls, schools, streetfront and business reading rooms and hospital books carts? Closings did happen then. Quote from Countryman's report to the library board: In 1932 the budget compelled us either to close some departments or branches altogether or to shorten opening hours everywhere and spread the economy equally. We chose to maintain service everywhere on shorter hours. In 1933, the problem again arose in a more acute form, and again we chose to treat all localities alike instead of closing entirely at any points. Throughout the year we have closed all evenings but Mondaya, in all departments and branches except the Central Newspaper Room and Technical Department. With another revised and diminished budget in June, necessity caused a further closing of one day per week, and since July, the library has been closed on Wednesday. In addition, the Library was closed two weeks in late summer and finally to meet the budget a further closing during Christmas week. Altogether the library haa been closed 40 days, but in this way no branch nor department has been permanently closed and no locality deprived of book service. We could not have kept open on full time and met the increasing demand without hiring extra people to do the work. But by closing we reduced the number of employees from 303 to 240, as noted on the table, and the payroll likewise decreased. It stands to reason that with fewer assistants doing a much increased work, crowded into fewer hours, the work could not be done as thoroughly. Which candidates are not opposed to CLOSING libraries (and which candidates are stepping back from this) As in Countryman's time, the library budget must balance. The library board cannot lawfully run an operating deficit. To pledge to keep every library open is extremely risky given the uncertainties of the revenue. All options should be kept open lacking prior knowledge of revenue levels. That is the responsible thing to do. It may sound good to say never close a branch, but all of the system must be served in the best possible way and that means we should not close off options in the name of making a campaign pledge. Note Countryman's connection between closings and the reduction of employees. That is the real story. Workers lost jobs. Today we have valuable union workers who are not there in the system because revenue loss forced layoffs. These workers carried out needed and skilled services that now must be done by others. Let's support the union workers and put greater effort into restoring operating revenue so these valued workers can come back into the system to provide the much needed services to Minneapolis. I was President of the library board when the layoffs occurred. I sent a letter of apology to those who lost jobs. I feel it is a deep obligation to demonstrate concern for the workforce, to develop the highest quality possible in the workforce and to honor the dignity of their work. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] R-E-S-P-E-C-T
On Tuesday, August 9, 2005, at 11:04 PM, Robert Lilligren wrote: For me, all candidates in our municipal elections are worthy of respect regardless of their viability. These are our friends and neighbors who have stepped forward and taken risks. They've put themselves out there because they feel they have something to offer. I've been distressed lately by the lack of respect shown by some candidates and their supporters to their opponents; especially in races with lots of challengers. I urge voters to pay attention to how a candidate and their campaign treat the competition. This, I believe, is a pretty good indicator of how s/he will behave in office. THANK YOU CM Lilligren for this timely and important message. And THANKS to Arthur Himmelman for his message: On Friday, August 5, 2005, at 09:22 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that this may be an unrealistic request, but I am wondering if anyone would like to try to do more of what Jon Stewart asked of CNN's Crossfire crowd: Would you analyze, discuss, and debate the substantive issues of the politics that you are discussing rather than simply attacking the political strategies and personal qualities of those that you oppose? There's not much I can add to these clear messages. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Black representation for Ward 8?
On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 08:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to disagree with Mr. Graham. American Indian people are not people of color. The term or label negates our unique dual citizenship and political/sovereign status, a status that no other people of color enjoy. Many American Indian folks dispel this homogenizing label, recognizing that our cultural and political struggles are very different then many of our relatives of color. Of course this is a complex subject, so I will end here. Beyond dispelling, the Minnesota Tribes have said emphatically, and voted on the question, that tribal members are not people of color. Rather they are politically defined populations belonging to two nations. This declaration has been recognized and confirmed in Minnesota law in the Health Disparities Act which refers to populations of color and American Indians as the descriptive term for the populations experiencing health disparities. This is not meant to cast a negative reflection on any group that wishes to label itself as people of color. However, American Indians are not included when that term is used. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Library candidates can read
On Tuesday, July 26, 2005, at 09:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope to meet and hear from all of the Library candidates about what they read and how they think we can afford to have a great Library system. Thanks, Scott Vreeland Seward I've been in Virginia Beach (VA) where my daughter is completing a certification. So I missed Washburn. Interesting comments. I usually read more than one book at a time, an old habit. I've cut back on print periodicals and read more online. Books include Thomas Friedman's The World is Flat, Osmond K. Fraenkel, The Sacco-Vencetti Case (found at the book fair, published in 1931), Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything, Dennis Banks and Richard Erdoes, Ojibwa Warrior, and Joseph Campbell, The Mythic Image, I scan a lot of stuff as I research materials, but can't claim to read them in totality. When in the car, I listen to CDs of books, too. I just heard Pete Hamill's Downtown: My Manhattan, and recently Bill Clinton's My Life. I'm also writing another book, children's fiction, involving space travel and Dakota Indians. And I continue to research along with my generous researchers (Virginia Holte, Michael Dalby, Elaine Salinas) on two works - a history of the American Indian Movement and a Dakota history project as yet without a title. Affording a great library system, as several of us said at the Franklin Library forum on the 21st, is a complex challenge that does not lend itself to sound bites and formulas. It is going to be hard, slogging work, not for the timid or those who give up easily and move on to the next cause of the day. It requires focus. We can't save the world. We have to concentrate on that group of policy makers, legislators, and friends who can carry the message effectively, deliver alternatives, and be at the table when the discussion happens. Arguments have to be rational, consistent, and free of baggage as much as possible. Wizard mentioned candidates who value the community libraries and focus less on central. The library system works well (as now) when central does not compete with the community libraries. The depth of the collection cannot be spread over the community libraries, it is too big. But it is there, to paraphrase Robert Frost, when you have to go there, they have to take you in. On the other hand, each community library is a gem of wonderful luster, a priceless asset to community life and the changing cultural milieu of the city. That was recognized in the library plans made several years ago. That made the loss of revenue blow all the harder to take. Every library is open, but at a terrible cost to the labor force. But who foresaw the perfect economic storm that hit the city? Not many. The money to build a new central and refurbish community libraries cannot be turned into operating dollars. Those decisions, made in better times, carried no provisos for today's operating realities. But here we are as a city, mired in debt, our cash locked up in bricks and mortar, waiting for the pay out to ease the burden. However, for decades, not just since the bubble burst, the city has chipped away at the library budget. Now things fall apart. The bookmobile is at the end of its life span. It cannot be fixed. Who has the funds to pay for a new one? Do we need one? Indeed, there is great need for more mobility of the collection, not less. But with no money, what is the answer? Simply wishing or demanding won't make it happen. Sheldon and I believe, along with others, that a closer relationship with the public schools and the parks will help address the mobility question. We are also committed to supporting the unions that bring such high quality to our libraries. When people speak of libraries closing, they are speaking of our great union workers losing their jobs and all of us losing those talents. Some never return. That's an asset to libraries we need to conserve. One thing is certain in my mind: we cannot as a city continue to do business as we have before. Put the credit card away. Face up to the debt. Be there at the table for the library and do that consistently and with insistence that the people of Minneapolis want the highest quality system available. The Friends of the Library are tooling up for the challenge. My job in part is to help them. In addition to making public policy, I am a citizen and a volunteer and someone who has used libraries and benefitted from libraries since I learned to read in the first grade. I'm a great admirer and supporter of all the Friends efforts, including the courageous Friends of the Franklin Library. I urge all of you out there to join the Friends and help in the effort to keep our libraries open and at full service levels. Best, Laura p.s. I will be attending the FCC/National Congress of American Indians roundtable in Albuquerque on tribal communication services, spectrum, and broadband. So I will
[Mpls] RE: Library Forums Start Thursday
Get Informed for the November Elections!  The Friends of the Minneapolis Public Library are hosting 10 Library Board Candidate Forums at our community libraries this summer. All citizens concerned about the state of our libraries are encouraged to attend.  The Minneapolis Public Library is governed by an 8-member Board of Trustees. Six trustees are elected in citywide elections and serve four-year terms. The two additional trustees are appointed by the Mayor and City Council. The Library Trustees set library policy and have discretion over the use of funds.  All forums are free and open to the public. Refreshments provided by candidates.   For more information contact The Friends at 612-630-6174 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Library Board Candidate Forums throughoutMinneapolis:  · Franklin Community Library  July 21 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  1341 E. Franklin Ave.  · Washburn Community Library  July 23 from2:00 – 3:30 pm  5244 Lyndale Ave. S.  · Northeast Community Library  July 27 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  2200 Central Ave. NE  · Nokomis Community Library  July 28 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  5100 34th Ave. S.  · Southeast Community Library   August 1 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  1222 S.E. 4th St.  · Linden Hills Library  August 4 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  2900W. 43rd St.  · Pierre Bottineau Library  August 8 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  55 Broadway St. NE  · Sumner Community Library  August 11 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  611 Van White Memorial Blvd.  · Hosmer Community Library  August 16 from6:30 – 8:00 pm  347 E. 36th St.  · Walker Community Library  August 20 from2:00 - 3:30 pm  2880 Hennepin Ave.  For more information about the Library budget and roles of different elected officials, visit http://www.friendsofmpl.org/Friends_advocacy2005.html.   Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Women on the Board of ET
Right you are. Laurie Savran, Secretary of the Library Board, serves on the Board of ET. Best, Laura On Thursday, July 14, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Loki Anderson wrote: While the public elects two at-large members of the Board, the other elected city bodies (council, school board, library board, park board) appoint representatives to serve on the Board of E T. And its very likely that some of them have been women. I'd verify that fact, but, honestly, the subject of the Board makes my eyes glaze over and I need to be sharp here at work. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] African American and Jamaican
On Saturday, July 9, 2005, at 06:15 PM, wmmarks wrote: To answer: No, it isn't at all ridiculous to make note that there is a very large cultural difference between the two, as there is between the Somalis and Af.Ams., or Ghanaians and Af.Ams, or any of a long list of African countries and western hemisphere islands under the aegis of the UK, France, or, once, Spain (Cuba, et.al.) These are different cultures, each one, and since Af.Americans are born and bred here, they are our own and live within the American (as in USofA) culture and straddle the dominant culture and the Af.Am. subculture. I'm very appreciative of Wizard's comments and observations. However on the cultural difference point, I'd like to add some dimension. Generally speaking, Americans choose their identification. That's been an unspoken social policy for many, many decades. We in the Native community know this all too well as we see droves of (undocumented) persons declare they are Native American. Some of them have enriched themselves with such self declarations. With some exceptions, we suffer these indignities in silence. In other categories, large numbers choose to say they are Americans, rather than identify a specific cultural or national background. Miscegenation, federal laws and policies on immigration and race, and social mores of prejudice have all skewed this preference selection. Who was once considered white has grown dramatically with the addition of southern Europeans and Jews. Who was once considered black has faded at the lighter end of the skin color spectrum as miscegenation has gone away (in law but not entirely in practice). It is a sad thing to see one group of people trying to tell a person what race or cultural background he is. We fought so hard in prior days to win the right to self identify what we are and have that accepted by society. I dare say no one wants to go back to those bad days of genetic labeling that resulted in such horrendous public policy. Assuredly there are differences in culture between Jamaican heritage (Gen Colin L. Powell) and African American (north or south? east or west?). However, I've not heard it said that General Powell is not African American. Both he and CM Samuels had Jamaican parents (from whence our culture comes). Nor have I heard that about Louis Farrakhan, whose cultural background is the British Caribbean (St. Kitts). So the argument seems thin to me, particularly as it is coming from others and not CM Samuels himself. Born and bred versus naturalized only has significance for running for president of the United States. Otherwise, no difference under the law. Best, Laura p.s. on Wizard's other point, I agree. I questioned the Mpls school district's lumping all African and African Americans into one category because it distorts both. However, no change was made. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School discussion
On Tuesday, June 28, 2005, at 08:36 PM, Michael Atherton wrote: Once again, the point of my argument is that the seniority system results in poorer educational opportunities for African American students and I think that the numbers clearly show that it does. Can we please stay on the same topic? If you'd like to argue that the seniority system results in equitable educational opportunities for all races please be my guest. The numbers presented so far do not show poorer educational opportunities for African American students. They only indicate a trend if everyone agrees that more than ten years seniority is the right factor. Missing are the test scores for the schools alleged to be lacking. Or put the other way the schools with teachers having more than ten years experience haven't been sufficiently associated with their presumed failure. As Tim Bonham so vividly pointed out, (teachers) avoid schools with a bad principal. All the correlates one cares to list from available data do not take into account variables such as this. It is way too simplistic to associate poor educational opportunity with a single factor such as teacher seniority. Sometime back, Dr. Sam Myers did an analysis of students of color and American Indians in the Minneapolis public system. One report that stated: There are substantial racial differences in suspension rates; there are wide racial gaps in parental involvement; and there are possible differences in access to textbooks and other materials needed for success in schools. Our goal is to determine the prevalence and effect of these factors within the Minneapolis Public Schools. (Measuring Up, 2003, Myers). The report also stated: An analysis of the 1996 Minnesota Basic Standards Test Data (Myers, 1997) found that all minorities did worse than White students on both the math and reading portions of the test. The overall math scores were below passing (70% correct) for many students except Whites and Asian Americans. Almost all non-White students scored below passing on the reading portion of the exam. Most White students passed the exam, while most minorities failed. The poorest performance came from Black students. High achieving American Indian and Black students attended schools that were ranked lower than those of high achieving Whites. Those minority students who did well did not necessarily attend the same schools or have similar backgrounds as top White students, indicating the importance of socioeconomic status in test score disparities. (emphasis added). Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Solidarity
On Tuesday, June 21, 2005, at 12:16 AM, Dyna wrote: R.T.'s contingent was about half the size of Peter McLaughlin's and you were probably the only one of R.T.'s much vaunted endorsers to make the parade. Perhaps after Peter outpolled R.T. at the city convention those endorsers are making themselves scarce? working for Peter McLaughlin and a better Minneapolis from Hawthorne, You know, I just don't believe in spitting on the other side in these campaigns. I was not worried about the size of the contingent, the shape the signs were in or whether there were more t shirts or not. This campaign to me is about doing a good job in a very bad situation. R.T. has done that and he will continue to do it for as long as it takes to bring Minneapolis up to where it belongs. It does not take a math genius to tell us all we need long term solutions to long our term revenue issues. There is no quick fix for Minneapolis' ills. Some of it is of our own making, and a lot of it is due to the malevolence showered upon us by suburban and outstate legislators, and of course our maniacally ambitious governor. I like Peter McLaughlin a lot and have worked with him since he first came to the Urban Coalition many years ago. I say hello to him every time I see him. I think mayoral campaigns benefit from debate and illustration of the issues. That's all fine. But I don't like nasty signs stuck in car windows, bad language, bad treatment, and lots of anger. That does no one any good. While we are busy creating enemies out of friends and casting slurs across a one-inch gap of difference, the Republicans are happily making all of our lives miserable. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Solidarity
On Monday, June 20, 2005, at 12:47 AM, Dyna wrote: Saturday morning at the parade lineup I found R.T.'s contingent out of signs, T-shirts, and just about everything else needed for a campaign. Whoever was sort of in charge wasn't even sure if they could use the sidecar in the parade. Sensing an opening I wandered over to the McLaughlin contingent and said hello. I was promptly welcomed aboard and my sidecar headed up the big McLaughlin contingent. standing up for my union family and Peter McLaughlin in Hawthorne, Whoa, whoa, whoa. My husband and I walked with the mayor in the Junteenth parade. We got there at about 9:30 a.m., got our signs and stickers and waited for the parade to start. We walked the entire route with the spirited group and the mayor shook hands while criss-crossing the street continuously. Our group felt very positive about the reception the mayor got along the route. My husband passed out stickers to enthusiastic takers and I waved and called out good morning to parade watchers on that glorious sunny day. Thanks, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: Dr. Peebles
On Sunday, June 19, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Michael Atherton wrote: There are many people who would prefer that the performance of the schools not be public knowledge. The major strategy of NCLB is to provide public information which will then motivate educational reform (and it is). The major strategy of NCLB is to force districts to comply with artificial standards for performance which has fueled a large remedial intervention business on schools. It is a privatization effort that has already reaped millions for Republican Bush pals in the private tutoring business. The imbalance comes from only looking at performance measures while ignoring all other local conditions, which each district must deal with. NCLB is quite cynical in its approach and it will have deleterious effects on districts until the law is changed. I think that it is the responsibility of the MPS to work with the State to try and reduce the number of required tests. It's my suspicion that the MPS use additional tests just for CYA. NCLB left the details of test design up to the States (a big mistake in my opinion), so the content and type of test is flexible. In balance, Minneapolis has adjusted quite well to the irrational demands of NCLB. There are enormous challenges facing the district in terms of ESL students, a continuing stream of new immigrants, as well as the prospect of uncertain funding for some time to come, thanks to a deeply misguided governor who puts politics before children. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Footnote on MSP Testing
On Sunday, June 19, 2005, at 02:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We had already restored the curriculum and instruction department several years before, so with the best of intentions, we put together a very focused summer school program and invited/urged low-performing students to attend. As Ross Taylor said, They stayed away in droves. After a couple of years of struggling with that we wanted to know why fewer than 4 out of 10 low-performing students were participating. This is very useful and interesting information. Thanks Ann. The older methods prompted re-mediation based on teacher recommendations. Using standardized tests to sort out students is not that old. Then of course followed teaching to the test. I think part of the deeper issue that we have to discuss and come to terms with in our district is what good we are doing with this reliance on standardized testing as a measure of performance success per school. Fast as we get with testing and reporting out results, we cannot be as fast as a teacher at identifying gaps an individual student needs to fill to be successful. One of the disconcerting Peebles things that happened in our family is that our grandchild brought home homework over the winter break. We sat down to help her with it and the examples were very poor. The instructions were missing. Neither our granddaughter nor us could figure out what was being asked. Still, she completed the work to the best of her ability, turned it in, and we heard nothing for quite a long time. However, we knew that our grandchild's teacher knew far more about where she was in her learning goals for the year and what she needed and what she excelled in. The winter break homework showed nothing and provided her with nothing. She received exactly the same homework everyone else in her grade group received, regardless of ability. In my opinion the missing link is not closing the time gap from testing to reporting. It is closing the relationship gap between parent and teacher. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Evaluating Dr. Peebles and the Minneapolis School Board
On Friday, June 17, 2005, at 07:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While there may be legitimate concerns about Dr. Peebles performance, as well as about the manner in which the Minneapolis School Board (MSB) is evaluating her, these matters suggest that there should be ways to evaluate the overall performance of the MSB beyond voting members off the board. I think annual review is part of Peebles' contract agreement. It is the legitimate role of the school board to evaluate the superintendent's performance. An annual review is a good idea. Next time there will be more to base the evaluation on. What the press did, who talked or why they talked are not matters sufficient to call either for voting the school board members off (by electing new ones) or deciding the school board has to be evaluated too. This does not mean simply getting the MSB to do what particular stakeholders want it to do; it means establishing criteria, with MSB participation, by which members of the public can periodically assess the board's policies, practices, and results. Polls of voters typically tell us how politicians are doing. Little or no polling is done on lower offices, and there is no other way to effectively evaluate elected bodies' performance that can take the place of polling. Highly performing elected officials get voted out and poorly performing elected officials get re-elected long beyond when they should leave. The voting booth is not the great leveler we sometimes imagine. Imperfect as it is, it is what we have. The public, freely choosing, makes the call. Watchdog organizations and groups sometimes rate performance, but their ratings can be challenged or as is more typical, ignored. There is no reason to believe a small group of citizens, no matter how representative, will be believed wholly in a political environment, particularly when their findings are adverse to a popular elected official. Thus a partial acceptance is the best we can hope for. In addition to the MSB, there are many other public bodies that should provide the public with evaluation criteria and ways to conduct such assessments. In order to make the best use of these evaluations, public boards also should be provided with effective and ongoing capacity-building opportunities related to evaluation findings that can assist them in improving their vital and difficult public service. The Minneapolis Library Board did engage a consultant to discuss concerns at the staff and board levels and the board went through a process to identify concerns and set standards for behavior. The staff are queried every two years on a range of areas that rates environment, conditions, issues, and other matters. This gives the Library Board vital feedback as it moves through the annual business and issues or episodes. However, without the power to remove an elected official from office, neither the staff nor members of the public have any standing to make evaluative criteria translate to action when the criteria reveals very poor performance. I wholeheartedly agree that there should be standards and regular engagement by the Library Board to look at itself in a way that helps reveal how performance can be improved. And it is worth thinking about if the various interests that endorse candidates also rated their performance later, what effect might that have? Imperfect as it is, nothing yet tried seems to work as well as the power of the voter in the booth. That is the ultimate arbiter of the untested and untried as well as barnacle-laden veterans of many a political season. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rising Crime Rates
The subject of rising crime in Minneapolis has become a part of the charges of failure in our city's mayoral race. Minnesota Public Radio had a recent guest on that discussed the temptation to pass quick judgment when city rates either rise or fall. It is too simplistic, he said, for cities to claim success on falling rates as it is to condemn city leadership for rising rates on the short term. The problem he said is like the stock market, we should not put our whole portfolio on the line for a single set of numbers that do not reveal future probability. Its a crap shoot. Neither, he said, should we jump to conclusions based on one or two years of crime figures. That is way too short a timeframe. That made sense to me. Best wishes, Laura On Monday, June 13, 2005, at 12:06 AM, Guy Gambill wrote: The decline in crime rates is not a localized phenomenon, it is a nation-wide and not clearly understood trend. In support of this lack of clarity, one can reference the Minneapolis City Attorney's 5 year Business Plan: Therein, on page 5 under Significant Trends, paragraph 2, the following passage may be found; The number of criminal cases is declining. In CY 2003 the Criminal Division handled 35,393 cases: In contrast, the Office handled 43,961 cases in CY 2002; 44,970 cases in CY 2001; 51,808 cases in CY 1999 and 63,887 in CY 1998. It is unclear why this caseload decline has occurred or whether it will continue. Similar commentary can be found in UCR data reports throughout most (not all) metropolitan areas of the US. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib on supes: Peebles' job on line, Gurban's a reform focus
The news is a little late reaching Minneapolis, but the reform trend in leadership has been coming for well over a decade. Traceable to quality circles and the Silicon Valley company explosion, the old Mr. Dithers model has long given way to cooperative leadership, authentic leadership, and leaders as learners. Rising Silcon Vally companies quickly learned that the creative edge went to those who praised and rewarded over those that scolded and punished. Intel on the one hand versus Enron on the other. Employees are very tuned in to these trends and are less and less willing to accept leadership from people who are not true to themselves. Their shortcomings become apparent very early on in their tenures and their lapses and transgressions slowly boil until there is resolution. On the one hand, the new leadership style works and results in higher production, more creativity, and makes for a happier workforce. On the other hand, the old leadership style works only in the short term but it uses fear as a tactic, and that negative reinforcement has limited power to sustain change. It will be a lesson learned for Minneapolis. Time to wake up and pay attention to authentic leadership style. Best, Laura On Monday, June 13, 2005, at 04:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A less-than-super day for superintendents in the Monday Strib: Peebles' job may be on the line: Minneapolis superintendent to meet with school board today, by Steve Brandt (top of page A1) http://startribune.com/stories/1592/5453456.html Park Bard faces electoral change: Controversial decisions and three open seats could lead to a philosophical shift in leadership, by Rochelle Olson http://www.startribune.com/stories/362/5453314.html Gurban comes up quite a bit, though nothing on the Stone flap. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Social responsibility
Well we do have the prisons for convicted persons. Perhaps we could extend the prison system to include those who do not qualify as renters. When we run out of space, failed renters could live in camps in summer and abandoned hotels in the winter, refurbished to handle down market occupants. This will provide many new jobs for matrons and guards. On second thought perhaps we have done something like this before in England and in American large scale public housing. There will always be the chance that innocents will be thrown in with the failed renters at any given point in time, so there should be some sort of appeal process -- juries of landlords perhaps? Best wishes, Laura On Monday, June 13, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Bill Cullen wrote: We are making progress here. With on-line and off-line discussions, I have come up with a list of proposed rental criteria. Below is the minimum standards this board recommends private landlords use when offering housing. Remember, I want this to be a recommendation from all of you, so please comment: 1) No occupant can have a felony or greater than one misdemeanor conviction in the past 5 years. 2) No occupant can have any conviction that would make the individual dangerous to the safety of others. Especially assaults or sexual perversions. 3) No occupant can have a successful eviction in the past 3 years or 2 evictions in the past 7 years. 4) All occupants older than 18 must have a credit score greater than 500 and at least one occupant must have a credit score greater than 600.* No bankruptcies in the past 3 years. (*for first time renters and full time students, exemptions are allowed) 5) Applicant families must not exceed 2 individuals per bedroom. 6) All applicants over the age of 18 must have finished high school (or achieved the equivalent GED) and be able to offer evidence that they are not part of any gang activity. 7) All applicants over the age of 18 must pass a drug test. 8) The household monthly income must be 3x the monthly rent. Is this strict enough? Surely, it will keep many families with historical behavioral problems out of housing, but I wonder if it will do enough? Would this rental screening make a landlord socially responsible? Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Library Board Candidates Forum
Translating delegates' interest and questions into action! I'm happy to announce that there will be a series of candidate forums in the community libraries. Many delegates at the DFL city convention were disappointed in the vote to cut the library board candidates' presentation time from five minutes to three minutes. No questions from delegates were allowed. Several delegates asked me to help bring the campaign to them in their community libraries. Now it will happen! Minneapolis voters made a tremendous investment in libraries by passing the referendum to build a new central library with updating of the community libraries. Now the library system is being starved by one after another cut in Local Government Aid. Have a point of view on this? Pick a date and come on out. The Friends of the Library will moderate the sessions. This is a great opportunity for all of you to see and hear the candidates up close. Here is what is lined up so far. There may be one or two more: (these are all for 1.5 hours). 1. Franklin Library Thursday, July 21 at 6:30 pm - Meeting Room 2. Washburn Library Saturday, July 23 at 2:00 pm - Meeting Room 3. Northeast Library Wednesday, July 27 at 6:30 pm - Homework Helper Area 4. Nokomis Library Thursday, July 28 at 6:30 pm - Meeting Room 5. Southeast Library Monday, August 1 at 6:30 pm - Meeting Room 6. Linden Hills Library Thursday, August 4 at 6:30 pm - History Area 7. Pierre Bottineau Library Monday, August 8 at 6:30 pm - Sheridan Meeting Room 8. Sumner Library Thursday, August 11 at 6:30 p.m. - Cargill Room 9. Hosmer Library Tuesday, August 16 at 6:30 pm - Meeting Room 10. Walker Library Saturday, August 20 at 2:00 pm - Meeting Room Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Kids Getting Kicked Out
On Saturday, June 4, 2005, at 08:37 AM, Diane Wiley wrote: Dennis Plante wrote: My business partner is a political refugee from El Salvador. The country from which he came from and the conditions he lived under in that country would rival what ANY minority in our country has experienced in their history... Yet, he'd still be the first to boot a child of his out the door if they were involved in gang-related activity... Diane Wiley responds: kicking your kid out. I got news for you. You can't do that legally. Not if they are under 16, and many of the gang kids are under 16. Aside from gang families, there are situations and have been for some time in Minneapolis where families have expelled children from their homes. My daughter is 38 now, but when she was in high school our family hosted three different teens who had been kicked out by their families. All were under 17 at the time. None had support or could earn income while going to school. We had two of them for over nine months each and the other for a shorter period (sequentially, not all at the same time). Our daughter brought them home and asked for our help. These were not gang kids but they had issues. All three are now educated and working adults. They were given the chance their families would not give them. It seems to me there are many, many children like this. The gang label is too easy to put on and too hard to take off. Between those with justice involvement and those just out there kicking around, there is a wide spectrum of need among young people who are seeking a way to transition to productive adulthood. I'm not much in favor of blaming the parents. With our three, we discussed only what the kids wanted to talk about, we never heard from their home families, and we never tried to call them and tell them off. Our focus was the kids, not the tension in the family. This is not to everyone's taste, I realize. It gets up close and personal with the issue, but in my opinion, more of that is needed with less focus on blaming from ten miles high. That, I think, would do us all a lot of good. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: Minneapolis Public Library Caught ThrowingBooksinDumpster
On Friday, May 27, 2005, at 02:33 PM, Dorie Rae Gallagher wrote: So those of us who complained... need to volunteer more time, give more money?? Perhaps...but I really don't think so...what we need to do is change policy...a policy that is not set by the Minneapolis Public Library. Public opinion can do just that and create a positive solution instead of foible banter from and for the unknown! Changing policy on the basis of a television story and a web page of images of books in a dumpster would result in bad policy. We don't know at this point whether the policy should be amended or not or whether the law can be changed. Both of those are being examined and will be again in the future. But this has to come from some rational starting place. I agree that creating a positive solution is what we should be seeking, but that positive direction does not necessarily mean keeping every piece of material or giving it away. It could mean keeping the policy as it is. That will not please everyone, public policy almost never does please everyone. It may seem simple to assign library staff to handle the materials in such a way that none ever wind up in the dumpsters but the cost of doing that is enormous. The library system is short of cash and short of personnel. The focus of what we have to do is serve the public coming in the front doors and through the web site. That is where the resources must be dedicated. To swerve away from that to what a television report is wagging its finger over would be a neglect of duty, in my opinion. I sincerely hope that we can begin to see that this is not about books in the dumpster. It is about serving the public with the highest quality of services the system can offer given its severely limited resources. We are in a very serious revenue crunch in the Minneapolis library system. We need every person to help us get those revenues back. Please spend your energies by calling and writing the state legislature and governor and telling them we need our Local Government Aid restored. Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Urban Legends
On Thursday, May 26, 2005, at 06:00 AM, Jeanne Massey wrote: According to state forecasts, the fastest population growth will be among people aged 50 to 64 through 2010. By 2015, this age group begins to decline rapidly as the retirement of the baby-boom generation gets underway. Boomers range from the birth years of 1946 to 1965 - 19 years (based on high birth rates that did not fall until 1965.) They may have produced children from about 1967 to 1986 (and later due to delayed pregnancies). Those children would now be teens to 38 years old. Gen Xers, the oldest of the group, are mature workers and homeowners. They are just a very small group and so they don't make much of an impact. By the 2020s, baby boomleters (kids of baby boomers) will be having kids and likely buying homes in big numbers (though not as big as in their parents' generation), filling in some (but not likely all) those homes built for their parents' generation. Agree the bigger group is the younger offspring of boomers and gen Xers. In my opinion, the biggest factor for these youngsters (and their future children) is the massive debt we are acquiring nationally and to a lesser extent in the state through the Pawlenty policies. Unlike the World War II group that passed wealth to their children, the boomers will pass debt to their children and grandchildren. And unlike World War II which produced a post-war national surplus (1948), the Iraq war and all the other little wars the U.S. is engaged in, is costing us - a lot. That seems to me to be the biggest difference. (If post-Iraq there is a surplus, it will have to come from our debt status of $7.7 trillion including (budget office forecast) a deficit of $400 billion this year. And it isn't just government that is acquiring massive debt, consumer debt is gigantic. That doesn't leave much wiggle room to exercise home ownership options for those coming to maturity in the 2020s. So the traditional investment in a home for later income will either become more out of reach as effect of the debt is passed along throughout the population, or the option of using home ownership will be less favored over other means of gaining wealth. However, that is not currently the case. According to FDIC, Currently, mortgages comprise 73.2 percent of total household debt, versus just under 69 percent as recently as 2000. Of the $3 trillion in additional consumer debt accumulated in the past four years through mid-2004, more than 80 percent was mortgage-related. And, there is the issue of homeowners liquidating their home equity to gain cash for various reasons. More debt. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DFLBooker Hodges Don Samuels
On Tuesday, May 24, 2005, at 03:00 PM, wmmarks wrote: The DFL as a party is corrupt, not because any of its members are corrupt, but because it has held hegemony for maybe fifty years. Corrupt is a strong word. Evidence for that is lacking. Change and lack of change doesn't imply corruption unless there has been some sort of evidence (or proof) that it is or was practiced. What is disappointing to me is the weak role the DFL plays in laying out the numbers and voter education so there is some better chance at comprehending the issues. Urban legends grow like mushrooms in the vacant spaces where the data should be. The DFL, having lost bunches of folks to the Greens, and bunches more to apathy, will only survive, somewhat intact, if it is remade by people of color and new Americans. They have the innate power to infuse the excitement of their diversity into politics. Voter turnout is the biggest loss. The Putnam research (Bowling Alone) points to some possible reasons for loss of voter participation. In my opinion, the DFL has played the hands it has been dealt. I'm all for diversity and more participation by American Indians and people of color but it remains to be seen what shape that will take or what shape the house will be in when assessed by those coming in. I'm willing to wait for that appraisal, a lot of which will determine future direction. Some of it I will be participating in. Meanwhile, I'm helping on voter education and participation in the American Indian and other cultural communities. Here in the 8th ward we are not yet seeing many Latinos, Somalis or other immigrants, but that change is fast upon us. WARD 08 POP 30,271 DEV 839 (deviation from 1990) % DEV 2.85% White 14,760 %White 48.76% Black 8,841 % Black 29.2% Hisp 4,307 % Hisp 14.23% http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/redistricting/20020430planstats.asp Personally, I think that the way to have the strongest city is to have a triangle of representative parties so that getting the majority always requires cooperation from at least one of the other two groups. Do you think that is how people of color and new Americans will see it? Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] BOOM-cars upset you?; Try this...?
On Sunday, May 22, 2005, at 11:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While driving east on Lowry between Penn and Lyndale, I encountered the terrible sounds of a large SUV BOOM-car next to me, on my right in traffic. Here is what I did at that red light. I leaned on my car horn in a continuous fashion; one loud, long and unabated hok. Far from perfect, It may possibly be the most effective, and only tool in our neighborhood tool box to deal with this type of goof; and grand nuisance. --- The Star Tribune reported in 1997 that a Minneapolis City Council noise ordinance targets noise from almost any source, with some exemptions such as for aircraft in flight. Fines for violating the ordinance are $200 for the first offense, $500 for the second offense, and $700 for the third. The ordinance stipulates that a noise violation occurs if someone makes a noise 10 decibels above the accepted noise level between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., or 5 decibels above the accepted noise level between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. This could indicate both the horn honking and the loud car stereo are in violation. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Tracking city debt
On Monday, May 23, 2005, at 05:09 PM, David Brauer wrote: The data is from the city's Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports. It's a bit wonky, but worth plowing through to understand the major fiscal constraints governing political promises and policy. -- And, David, it cuts through the rhetoric like a hot knife through butter. Great work. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis DFL Convention Turnout
On Tuesday, May 17, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Tim Bonham wrote: The number is calculated by a formula giving 1 delegate for every 25 DFL votes in that precinct in the most recent election. So there were 4443 delegate spots available before the precinct caucuses. Attendees there filled 3303 (not ) of them, so that became the maximum number of delegates for the city convention. This formula is a standard one, that has been used statewide for many years to allocate DFL delegate spots to precincts. At the City DFL Central Committee meeting last December, there was an attempt to change this to 1 delegate per 50 votes, and another to base this on votes for City candidates, not President, etc. Both of these would likely have resulted in a reduced number of delegate spots. (Both had some support from City DFL officers, the ones who had to actually put on these conventions.) But the central committee voted to stay with the 1 per 25 formula, and thus create the largest democratic convention in the world. Direct government, via referendum or town hall is the most representative. 25 to 1 is less so and comprises the delegate model of representation. It isn't the electorate but it is a wonderful model of caucus and convention to select political leadership and standard bearers for the parties. But then the candidates go before the voters - to the referendum. We have this model in Minnesota and I think it works quite well. The stadium issue on the other hand questions whether representative government works or should there be direct government. This is exacerbated by the state's position that it must give permission in referenda of local tax matters. That's a big issue now because local government is being squeezed badly by state behavior to cut revenues for vital local services. Thanks Tim for the explanation. I hope we can do more of this so listers can see how the system works. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Reducing the number of delegates.
On Tuesday, May 17, 2005, at 07:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just talking about the city convention. I'm not saying reduce the number of people elected to ward conventions or SD conventions. If you cap the number of delegates at 1000, each ward would send 50-100 delegates to the convention, which is a reasonable number. In addition, most subcaucuses I have been in usually send a mix of old pros and new people up to the next level. That gives a good mix of delegates to the convention. The DFL party has a priority of recruiting for diversity and newcomers. Reducing the number of delegates to the city convention works against this priority. Diversity is slowing catching up with the demographics, but we are far from being there yet. By saying only so many seats are available at the convention, we force difficult choices at the caucus and ward levels. That opens the party up for criticism (probably deserved) that elitism is at work to confound the efforts at recruiting new and diverse members. This is perhaps the last DFL city convention where diversity is still a challenge. I fully expect that the next precinct caucuses, ward conventions, and the city convention will be more representative of the demographic changes going on in the city. So I wouldn't want to restrict access just when the new groups are making advances into the political process. None of this of course changes the ability of groups to rally around tactics intended to sway the endorsement process one way or another. That part of the political process has always been with us. What will be interesting to see are the waxing and waning abilities of the various groups and affiliations to gather the steam to be influential. It is possible that more diversity will bring more independent minded individuals who are not group joiners. (National trends are in this direction). This could change tactics considerably in future conventions, but probably not anytime soon. Electronic voting by the way will encourage this independence rather than retard it as lowering the number who can participate does. As for venues, we may be facing the day of paid entry like the state conventions. That will force fundraisers for the participation of those with financial needs, but I think I would prefer that to limiting who can go to the convention because the space is expensive. Pre planning will also be essential. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Where's RT?
On Sunday, May 15, 2005, at 09:36 PM, gemgram wrote: Clearly Walter Mondale has become irrelevant to politics in Minneapolis. It is unfortunate that he has attempted to use that past political capital with the DFL to influence Minneapolis Politics. I'd say this is an unfounded statement. Opinion of one person maybe. Mondale remains highly respected and sought after as a source of great political authority. Rybak's greatest lead over Sharon was only 1.4%! The mayor won 3 to 1 over Sharon Sayles Belton with Minneapolis voters. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
As stated before, arrests are one set of data. There are other sources, perhaps harder to come by that estimate the amount of money in the trade and thus giving a glimpse at the size of the customer base. There is no possibility that the extent of the drug trade is the arrest record. When Jonathan says suburban buyers are purchasing in open air drug markets, he is referring to the entire customer base, not just arrests. Without a modicum of security the drug trade would fade quickly. Thus most buyers get away with their purchases. Looking more closely at this perspective reveals the bigger picture and takes us into those arguments of how hard it is to police the trade. Best, Laura Waterman Wittstock Southeast Mpls On Monday, May 16, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Mark Wilde wrote: No one is saying that no drug dealers or buyers live in the City or even in the neighborhoods, but the primary demand for drugs in impacted neighborhoods comes from suburban buyers who are purchasing their products in open air drug markets. Jonathan Palmer Victory Allan Knoxran a report for all people arrested on narcotics charges from May 1, 2004 through April 30, 2005 1,836, or 71%, listed Minneapolis as their home town. 745 or 28% listed a city other than Minneapolis. The majority of drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who live in Minneapolis. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Convention report
Mpls City Convention Results for Independent Boards Library Board 1st Ballot Alan Hooker 75.7% - endorsed Laura Waterman Wittstock 72.5% - endorsed Sheldon Mains 61.5% - endorsed 2nd Ballot Gary Thaden 70% - endorsed Laurie Savran 65% - endorsed Rod Krueger 61% - endorsed Park and Recreation Board 1st Ballot Mary Merrill Anderson 60.1% - endorsed 2nd Ballot No endorsed candidates 3rd Ballot Tom Nordyke 69/2% - endorsed (no third endorsement) Estimate and Taxation 1st Ballot Carol Becker 70% - endorsed Jill Schwimmer 62% - endorsed Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Project STOP
On Monday, May 9, 2005, at 11:48 AM, wmmarks wrote: Connie Beckers wrote: I can't understand why we care so much about the creature comforts of convicted criminals when they clearly don't care about the comforts of those they victimize! Who cares if they're sleeping on the floor? It's for the safety of the guards and other staff. A prison riot is not a pretty thing and guards get injured and killed in prison riots. WizardMarks, Central Good answer by Wiz, but there are the broader considerations Minneapolitans take into account, such as rehabilitation versus punishment or both in some ratio. As we swing back and forth, we have seen great rehab efforts come and go and punishment mode take hold. It is becoming clearer the criminal justice system is due for change. Building more and more jails and prisons won't work. As a society we have more prisons than other developed countries and I believe Minnesota has more prisoners than other states. Lots of reasons for that but among them is our community sense of how we are to deal with criminality, investigation, conviction and punishment (with or without rehabilitation). Over the long term this reflects who we are as much as it reflects the state of jails and prisons and how convicted criminals are treated. Crime statistics rise and fall on every watch of every elected official in every municipality. Its lucky to have a good run and its tough to get beaten over the head when the numbers go bad. But generally these statistics follow trends rather than lead them. So they are predictors of future performance by elected officials, but not an evaluation of past performance. Unfortunately, we can't seem to build too many jails. It is a popular thing to do. It is the duty of every household, through taxes, to support adequate public safety. Private funds put controls into the hands of a few, unelected persons. We will find that is not good for Minneapolis. Best wishes, Laura Como Neighborhood, Minneapolis Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Saturday Night Live joke on Minneapolis
On Monday, May 9, 2005, at 01:45 PM, Michael Atherton wrote: David Brauer wrote: Whether there are political aspects to hitting someone up for money is an interesting question, one I'll let others opine about. Well, if you're hitting someone up for political money, then it would have to be protected...right? Doesn't political speech have even greater protection? Not that that many panhandlers are collecting political donations, but they could be. :- Asking the general public for cash on the street brings to mind the idea of quid pro quo (or commercial activity as Mr. Atherton stated earlier). What does the giver get in return? Lemonade? Sexual favors? Political support? These seem like vastly different exchanges. Panhandlers don't seem to offer more than a story whether written on some cardboard or given verbally. Licensing implies that a commercial activity is taking place. Yet we don't attempt to license junior's lemonade stand (or call in the Board of Health). Its caveat emptor. Good thing too. Otherwise every summer the jails would be full of those too short to go on the big rides at the State Fair. Laura Waterman Wittstock Como Neighborhood Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stop blaming marijuana for violence (2 of 2)
On Wednesday, May 4, 2005, at 08:35 AM, Jason Samuels wrote: Jason Samuels responds: First off those layers of responsibility are already well defined in the ways we handle other legal drugs. And regulating marijuana would take away a whole host of police responsibilities now inherent with prohibition's enforcement. Second, arguing that legal marijuana would pose additional health issues to the system ignores the fact that it's already widely used. So those costs are already here, and arguably they are less mitigated than they would be in a legal market. The prime examples of this are numerous non-smokable methods of ingesting the drug which could be encouraged under a regulated market. As for whether legalizing marijuana would lead to greater use, we could argue ad infinitum about this point, but the Dutch experience would suggest that it would not in the long term. It is curious to me that my comments are taken as opposition to legalizing marijuana use. I've said nowhere that this is my position. I have tried to add observations, opinion, and comment on the pros and cons. I've not taken a position. The polarities are evident in today's Strib piece on marijuana use research. http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5383913.html Please continue discussing, but try to avoid putting me in a category for convenience. The topic is much more complex than that. Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] reaction to Jason Stone
The point of Tony Scallon's comment is not that the public boards' information is hard to get at. His point is that nothing replaces old fashioned research and dogged tracking of information. This is a good point. In this day of googling and quick searching without leaving home, it does seem very difficult to do traditional verification and research - lots of walking, calling, and talking. It can seem impossibly obtuse, but on balance, I think we should acknowledge that we are in the middle of a sea change in how information is collected, stored, and made accessible. It's pretty tough to blame the process when we are half way through the revolving door. Technology, process, and new policy will all bring us toward transparency. That is inevitable. But I certainly hope we never get to the point where no research skills are ever necessary for good citizenship. If that happens, we truly will not know what we do not know. Best wishes, Laura On Wednesday, May 4, 2005, at 09:46 AM, Jeremy Wieland wrote: The Scallon Response to Jason misses the mark to a degree. The beef that many in Minneapolis who watch government closely is that none of the necessary information is readily available. Research is sometimes impossible, and asking budgetary questions of Park Board incumbents doesn't make sense, because they're often working off executive summaries rather than actual budgets. Not too long ago I was looking at some numbers for golf courses and no actuals or variances were included. Furthermore, what do you do when the largest line items are other? There is a five person coalition running the Park Board and they're not doing a good job, they're not keeping up with technology, they're not keeping up with cultural changes. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stop blaming marijuana for violence
On Monday, May 2, 2005, at 02:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If marijuana were legal, it wouldn't place any drain on our police department. Then the police could use those drained of resources on arresting murderers, rapists, armed robbers, etc and we would have the prison space needed to hold all the people who should be held in prison to protect the rest of us. Since marijuana only effects the people who use it and some people even have to use it for medicinal purposes and users are not hurting you or anyone else, legalization seems to offer all benefits and no harm. Robert Halfhill Loring Park Whether one is for legalizing marijuana sales or not, there are issues of addiction and behavior that can put users or intoxicants into a police inter action resulting in arrests. There are also issues of driving while intoxicated that can and do involve innocent bystanders and other drivers. Unlike cigarettes, there will likely be a standard of intoxication for legal marijuana and driving or machine operation will be precluded. The spectrum of users is also likely to be broad enough to include those who are otherwise engaged in criminal activities. I think legal marijuana will add another layer to police responsibility as well as adding new laws to handle the various situations. True, use/possession will be more defined and there will be fewer arrests or none for mere use or legal possession, but when this happens will be far in the future after law passage. Adding marijuana to cigarettes will pose additional health issues to the system (and costs) which all of us will have to cover one way or another. The (post-mortem) shrunken brains of addicted marijuana users shows that this is not a harmless pastime. I've not kept up with the lung damage studies, but I am sure they are out there, too. Hot smoke from any source is damaging to lung tissue. I think the drug dealers are counting on marijuana being illegal for some time to come. What do we do in the meantime? Best wishes, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stop blaming marijuana for violence
Wizard makes a good point. Others have argued that the millions tied up in law enforcement, prison space, rehab, tons of literature, and prevention education would suffer under legal marijuana. And it is likely true that drug dealers doing exclusive business in marijuana are the rare birds of the trade. Everyone diversifies to broaden the customer and return business base. So both law enforcement and illicit sellers gain from continuing the status quo. Legal marijuana will have its own enterprises in rehab, counseling, lawyers in court over driving while high cases, and the likely billion dollar industry of growing, processing, and distributing marijuana for the market. The players change but the profits are still there. Its a win win. Best wishes, Laura On Monday, May 2, 2005, at 07:33 PM, wmmarks wrote: The trade in illegal drugs is not the trade of the 60s. It's grown up tremendously and is now a corporate enterprise. Separating out marijuana from cocaine and heroine and whatever else, from a legal and police practice paradigm will be a complex business to accomplish. Whether we agree or not, there are maybe millions of jobs tied up in the war on drugs with FBI, ATF, DEA, city police, county sheriffs, on and on, seemingly forever. What I can't see, ultimately, is how to untangle such a construction except to legalize it and tax the juice out or it. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Hood Pot Market to relocate DT; RT hopes gang violence abates; Hardcore Commute?
On Saturday, April 30, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Barbara Lickness wrote: Mark Wilde said: And I would argue against the idea that all the buyers are from the suburbs as people like to claim. The people buying live right next store to the people selling. Me: Mark you are only partly correct. According to the stats, 60% of the people buying the drugs drive in from the suburbs or other rural areas in Minnesota and Wisconsin. 40% are local. Perhaps if the dealers set up satellite operations at Ridgedale or Southdale or the Eden Prairie Center it would be more convenient for them and our incidents of violence would decrease dramatically. Barb Lickness, Whittier It is futile to speculate where the buyers come from in what percentages. We might just agree that the public is complicit in illegal sales by supplying the demand and thus the market growth. True, Target and Walmart need to know where their customer base comes from. Drug dealers and distributors probably do too. We can argue endlessly whether they are local or suburban. But it is what it is, whatever we might speculate. The market is there is sufficient depth to make this business profitable. Illegal or legal will have little effect on the under 18 market in a future legal scenario. For now, the buyer age spectrum is under 18 to no ceiling. There are just too many in the public who are buyers and thus there is a ready supply of dealers and sellers that the larger scale distributors can rely on. Bullets in the head are part of the risk category. The mayor was exhorting a reduction in public buying to decrease demand. Otherwise law abiding citizens and others should pay attention to this. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How much do some city workers earn?
Voting for me or not voting for me is strictly the choice of each voter. I've retired so my household income is not what the writer speculates. The library board voted in 2003 to reduce its own compensation until LGA is restored. The board also halted all travel by the board. So please don't attempt to assign labels because I am contributing to this discussion. I'm giving my opinion on this subject matter. The US Census median household income in Hennepin County I found is $54,019. That's for 2000. Hennepin County has been outpacing the nation in terms of income gains over the decade between 1990 and 2000. That means half the households make more than $54 thousand and half make less. There is considerable discussion about the professional requirements needed to work in various city jobs, the low ceiling imposed by the Governor's salary rule, the loss of talent, and the inability to compete with other cities of comparable size and wealth. At some point the practice of getting waivers for the salary ceiling will have to be addressed by the state legislature. We can't ask highly trained professionals to work for an artificially low salary structure and not expect them to go elsewhere for better opportunities. To point to job performance and then speculate on whether the CPED office is effective is another matter. Those are the details I was asking for, but to just list salaries and then make a statement that half the money should be given to police and the fire department leaves a gap in the discussion because the two are not connected. What's in the middle? Best wishes, Laura On Friday, April 29, 2005, at 09:45 AM, Chris Johnson wrote: They are not high salaries? Maybe in the stratospheric realm of over-compensated CEOs and perhaps Wittstock's own current job they're not. Several of the top dogs there make just slightly less than governor Pawlenty. The median household income in Minneapolis in 2003 was $42,010. I most certainly do believe those are high salaries. More importantly, are they justified? The city has received poor, corrupt service from the CPED nee MCDA for over 20 years. What do we have to show for 20-plus years of their work? I clearly will not be voting for Laura Waterman Wittstock for Library Board. Until her posting above, I was ambivalent. Why would I want a spendthrift managing my tax dollars at the Library? I am not a believer in extravagance in government. If one wants a life in a teak and rosewood board room, stick to private enterprise. Such a person does not have the proper characteristics for public service, where utilitarian should be good enough. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stop blaming marijuana for violence
On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 08:12 AM, gemgram wrote: Clearly the problem is with the criminalization of marijuana, not the herb itself. The dealers are no different from the bootleggers Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, Legs Diamond and the other Italian and Jewish Mafia, and their wars with the Irish gangsters. How did they attack that crime? They repealed prohibition and aggressively went after the criminals. A note and then a comment. The enactment of prohibition was part of a larger, anti-Catholic political movement in similar fashion as anti-abortion is a political movement wrapped in religious garb. The distance of history has a way of revealing more about why this country found prohibiting things so enticing, i.e., it was usually for reasons other than what appeared on the surface. Now we are into prohibiting access to the Internet in the guise of protecting children. That the local distribution and street sales of marijuana should result in death by violent means can't be denied. The subrosa cash economies that function when law enforcement cannot do its job because the scope of the problem is too large and the public is engaging in the subterfuge to keep it underground, are only enhanced by a refusal to see the problem. Any drug dealers who are reading this discussion must be highly amused. There are more in the seller and user group than in the law enforcement group. This is one large reason why I cannot understand the police chief's recommendation that the city license beggars. If this were Calcutta, the idea would be absurd. But we have so few beggars the idea seems feasible, or worse, reasonable. We can't control the traffic in marijuana and thus prevent the deaths, but we can hang some plastic around the necks of those few who beg in the streets. I've not heard of beggar deaths, except those who freeze to death in the winter. What the heck is our police chief thinking? All I can say is logic fails. Best, Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How much do some city workers earn?
On Wednesday, April 27, 2005, at 03:49 PM, Booker Hodges wrote: In my very first column in December, 2002, I listed the salaries of some of the executive directors of nonprofit organizations in Minneapolis. In this column, I am going to list the salaries of some of the employees of the City of Minneapolis, and of course add my editorial comments. Lybak should cut the budget of CPED in half and give it to the police and fire departments. Residents of Minneapolis are paying property taxes for platinum, but we are getting sterling silver, if you know what I mean. And the point is? These are not high salaries. Building the capacity, wealth, and quality of life of the city are long term investment strategies for a better city for everyone. Cutting CPED in half is fits the eating the seed corn analogy, which gets short term results but buys long term disaster. Ever play survival simulations? Calling the mayor names just does not advance the argument for me. Show me something. Best wishes, Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Smoking ban night 2
The smoke free ordinances respond to the 80% of the population that does not smoke and the growing evidence that tobacco smoke is harmful to those who are smoking as well as to those who are breathing in the secondhand smoke. However, when you believe that any government controls amount to Nazi nationalism, then rationality is not at work in the discussion. Differences in views just have to be that, not the judgment that a council member is ignorantly promoting oppression. The cultures of the Native peoples who were here, undiscovered, did not follow a Rousseau concept or any other Euro-inspired idea of who they were or what they did. That is the great myth: that Native people have been or could be objectively interpreted by those from alien origins. Again, opinions are one thing. Have them. But assertions about the philosophies and policies of ancient America are beyond the grasp of those who come with theory in pocket. Best, Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ On Saturday, April 2, 2005, at 09:33 AM, Michael Atherton wrote: Robert Lilligren wrote: The place was full. Many people, including two smokers, commented on how nice it was to be able to breathe cleaner air. One smoker said, This will probably help me quit smoking, which is, I believe, the objective of the ban activists. This goal, and the people who support it, are soo narrow minded that they can't tell the difference between oppression and freedom. I will lead you to Jesus and Salvation. A goal that throughout history has been the intended good used to torture, persecute, and kill millions of innocent people. A well intended goal does not justify ignoring the beliefs and desires of others. Isn't that what multiculturalism is about? Honoring the customs and desires of others? At least now that they've won, smoking opponents are being honest about their true intentions: to Save us from ourselves. I hope that everyone see the parallels between this and dunking, public humiliation in the stocks, and witch burning, all practiced by our Puritan ancestors for the good of their victims. I'm sure that they honest felt that they, just as the anti-smoking advocates do, that they are helping others. I would hope that rational people can see that ANYTHING can be justified in the name of helping purify others against their will. At least the Nazis never bothered to rationalize the Holocaust as being for the good of their victims. It's very scary to know that one of our city council members is ignorantly promoting such intended good. Jim Graham wrote: American Indian people have always been welcoming to all people, (there would not be the present immigration problem if Indian people had tightened immigration laws four hundred years ago). There is a popular mythology that follows Rousseau's concept of the natural man that assumes that Native Americans lived peacefully before they were corrupted by the evil influences of the White man. It is just a myth. Native Americans were no more peaceful than the Europeans who subjugated them. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Monneapolis Public Library
The wisdom of the money being spent on the new central library was by vote of virtually 70% of the Minneapolis electorate. We did not have a perfectly functional library. We had a very badly built library with some areas where there was no ceiling clearance and most of the books immediately unavailable to the public. The new central library will have vast improvements and the public will have access to most of the collections. This is dramatically different from the 1963 library. That central library was built after funds were slashed and it showed almost immediately. The new central will say something about just how important we Minneapolitans think libraries are to our communities and our willingness and commitment to freely educate all who live here and all who come here in the future. Cost and inconvenience are very important factors. Inaccessible books is an important issue. True we did not all vote on where to put the new central library. Some would still prefer another site for various reasons. However, I know the new central will be worth the wait. I wish we could have afforded the space to have had the entire collection accessible. With only months to go to the grand opening, I'm very excited about what the library will be able to offer the public. Best, Laura Waterman Wittstock On Wednesday, March 30, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Dan wrote (quoting Wizard): Listers, Let us pledge to ourselves that we will never, never, never build another new public library if it means we have to put any books in storage for years. I am so tired of being frustrated by books put on ice so we could build on the same spot I could kick the seeds out of a pickle! I second that. How much will it cost to replace a perfectly functional (and relatively modern) library? How many police officers wouldn't have to be cut if that money was spent more wisely? Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Doug Grow's Mythology
On Wednesday, February 16, 2005, at 08:06 AM, Michael Atherton wrote: I'm probably one of the few people that believes that link is not between poverty (as low income) and academic failure. I believe that is link is between culture and academic failure. This implies that simply raising income levels will not solve the problem and that special programs that acknowledge the cultural relationship need to be developed. Most educators are too correct to admit that the problem is dominated by culture, which in turn just perpetuates the problem. If my assumption is true, then trying to solve academic failure by eliminating poverty is doomed to fail. I believe that the solution is to reduce poverty through education. The contributing links to academic failure, whether from low income or culture do not necessarily point to solutions that originate from and/or remain with the schools. I happen to agree that culture is a large contributing factor in academic failure -- the culture of the majority class. People of all cultural backgrounds buy into this as they are educated and if they go into education, when they return to the public districts to perpetuate it. There is no reason other than culture to have a long summer hiatus from learning. And, America grinds all cultures into broken glass. The pieces glitter and show facets of what they once were, but they are broken under the great wheel of commercial enterprise. Under the guise of teaching citizenship, the public school systems have been complicit in teaching from a core set of beliefs, points of view, and the repression of critical judgment. Therefore we cannot expect the achievement failure correction to come from the schools. It must come from the cultural communities and organizations. We have simply waited too long. Best wishes, Laura Waterman Wittstock Southeast With three grandkids at Marcy REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
