[Mpls] What is your school up to?/If not teaching kids the 3 R's / List Archiive 3/03
Keith says now: I really didn't care for the last MPS super; far from. In a message dated 3/20/03 8:47:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Why not just go ahead and complete the process that has been taking place > for the past 20 years. Make the schools nothing but a training ground to > mold students into corporate commodities Keith says; I wish that were closer to the truth, and the actual outcome. I will presume you are on point, this time, and thus referring to Mpls. Public Schools. The last twenty years, and the ten before them, have shown: Too high a percentage of the kids cannot read, write, or solve a math problem at appropriate skill levels. I will not blame a teacher; or teachers. I will blame the Kumbayah Clique that in the past (remember Green?) ripped down our public school stock, and stopped having a curriculum of education and student success, by measurable standards. If this institution does "mold students into corporate commodities", it is into the shape of the burgers they will be flippin'. Nothin' corporate about, "Would you like fries with that happy deal?" I thank a teacher I can write this, Keith Reitman NearNorth REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to? -- Correction
In a message dated 3/21/2003 1:01:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > For example, data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress > (federal testing program) showed that the gap in reading and math test > scores > was closing, and that efforts to close the gap were adversely effecting > outcomes for the high achievers (as A Nation At Risk claimed) Should read "...efforts to close the gap were *not* adversely affecting outcomes for the high achievers..." TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
"A Generation ago, 68% of the African Americans in Minneapolis were high school graduates compared with 76% of whites..." Clarence Hightower, President, CEO Mpls Urban League [Insight News, page 2, Wed 29 May 2002] In recent years the graduation rate for all students in the Minneapolis Public Schools has been under 50%. The graduation rate for African-American students in Minneapolis is somewhere in the neighborhood of 20%. I was a custodial parent of a couple of Minneapolis School students on the South Side and SE in the mid to late 1980s. I got the impression that the Minneapolis Public Schools were doing a fairly good job of preparing kids for college, jobs and life outside of the K-12 school system. Mark Snyder, a North High School student in the late 1980s also has a fairly high opinion of the school system based on his experience as a student. However, I changed my opinion about the schools based on further experience as a parent in the late 1990s. During the 1970s and 1980s a huge amount of progress was being made toward the goals of improving the quality of education for all and closing the academic achievement gap in Minneapolis and throughout the US. However, since the mid-1980s educational policy in Minneapolis has been driven by the agenda of a neo-conservative school reform movement that was launched with a 1983 report called "A Nation at Risk," which has given us more homework (parental involvement), more inequality (race / class segregation, part-to-full time tracking beginning in Kindergarten or grade one), and worse educational outcomes (dumbed-down curriculum for most students). A Nation at Risk was telling us that the school system was bad and getting worse. However, test score data from the 1970s and 80s tell a different story. For example, data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress (federal testing program) showed that the gap in reading and math test scores was closing, and that efforts to close the gap were adversely effecting outcomes for the high achievers (as A Nation At Risk claimed). The difference in reading test scores between white and black 13 year olds declined by about 50% between 1971 and 1988. From its low point in 1988 that gap has increased by about 75%. -- "Evidence That School Policies Matter" http://educationright.tripod.com/id173.htm Many of the public school districts in the suburbs and outstate are still doing a pretty good job of educating all students because they haven't gone as far in abandoning the policies that were put in place by nearly all school districts during the 1970s. In a message dated 3/21/2003 7:58:26 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "When Dukakis ran in 1988, I was attending Minneapolis North High School. We never talked about who we should tell our parents to support for president...[snip] I also felt quite prepared for college two years later when I graduated and went on to the U of MN as my lowly MPS education helped me score a 30 on my ACT and a 1320 on my SATs" -Doug Mann, King Field http://educationright.tripod.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
On 3/21/03 7:24 AM, "Michael Atherton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem with teaching "critical thinking" in the schools > is that it is not about helping students to think independently, > but more about helping them understand the importance of "correct > thinking." And, although Mr. Kushner seems to think that the schools > are molding students into corporate robots, the reality is much > different. As Ms. Nompelis points out, schools and the teachers in > them, are far more likely to have a liberal bias than a conservative one. I won't argue Ms. Nompelis' story about the school she attended, but I'd like to respectfully point out that it represents one case at one time, or a "snapshot" if you will. Just as correlation does not mean causation, a snapshot does not make a trend. When Dukakis ran in 1988, I was attending Minneapolis North High School. We never talked about who we should tell our parents to support for president. We did talk about the importance of voting and being engaged in the political process. I remember getting my state senator, Larry Pogemiller, to visit my civics class to talk to us about how state government works. I also felt quite prepared for college two years later when I graduated and went on to the U of MN as my lowly MPS education helped me score a 30 on my ACT and a 1320 on my SATs, both among the top percentiles in the nation. And I had a number of classmates who were right up there with me, if not higher. There's my snapshot for you. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
Jordan Kushner wrote: > Why not just go ahead and complete the process that has been > taking placefor the past 20 years. Make the schools nothing but a > training ground to mold students into corporate commodities. Forget > about independent and critical thinking. Forget about training > students to become politically aware and even active citizens who > can come to their own conclusions about social and political issues, > and even, god-forbid, exercise their prerogative to dissent. In fact, > don't just forget about teaching students about freedom and democracy. > Fire any teachers and administrators who dare to encourage such development. The problem with teaching "critical thinking" in the schools is that it is not about helping students to think independently, but more about helping them understand the importance of "correct thinking." And, although Mr. Kushner seems to think that the schools are molding students into corporate robots, the reality is much different. As Ms. Nompelis points out, schools and the teachers in them, are far more likely to have a liberal bias than a conservative one. Eric Oines wrote: > Because of the excellent peace and justice curriculum at my daughter's > pre-school, the Mpls. YWCA, she understands more about non-violent > conflict resolution and the importance of respect for herself and others > than most of our national leadership (IMHO). This type of peace and justice curriculum is not limited to Christian instructions, but can also be found in non-sectarian ones such as the University's preschool. If you want students to think critically, then allow them to consider the role of the United States as a country that is willing to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers to protect democracy, human rights, and the lives of innocent civilians. Or even more radically, to protect American economic interests, our standard of living, and our position as the most powerful country in the world. There are valid arguments on both sides of the war debate, students should be able to articulate both. Only then will they be able to make a "choice." Michael Atherton Prospect Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
--- "Jordan S. Kushner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (snip): Forget > about independent and > critical thinking. Forget about training students > to become politically > aware and even active citizens who can come to their > own conclusions about > social and political issues, and even, god-forbid, > exercise their > prerogative to dissent. I agree that this is already happening, but would argue that it's not going in quite the political direction you think. I attended Northrop Montessori (not so very long ago either) and recall quite clearly how we were encouraged to support (through posters and discussion with our parents) Michael Dukakis in his presidential bid because he was "nicer" and of course, a democrat. This while my fourth grade teacher there, one Ms. Cheryl Bradford, was teaching multiplication incorrectly. (I swear to God, you can ask my mother and former classmates, many of whom are still angry about that!) The direction that public schools have taken merely during my educational career, (especially montessori) is appalling. We spent more time discussing global warming and protecting the trees in 5th and 6th grade than we did preparing for the academic demands that middle school would bring. Sadly, many of my classmates had to take remedial math and reading classes as we moved on to Anthony or Anwatin, or wherever. This is real, and it's a problem, and I remember it very clearly. My children will not be subjected to the kind of "education" that I was - they will go to private or charter school - at least as long as we live in Mpls. Connie Nompelis Ventura Village __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?/If not teaching kids the 3 R's
In a message dated 3/20/03 8:47:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Why not just go ahead and complete the process that has been taking place > for the past 20 years. Make the schools nothing but a training ground to > mold students into corporate commodities Keith says; I wish that were closer to the truth, and the actual outcome. I will presume you are on point, this time, and thus referring to Mpls. Public Schools. The last twenty years, and the ten before them, have shown: Too high a percentage of the kids cannot read, write, or solve a math problem at appropriate skill levels. I will not blame a teacher; or teachers. I will blame the Kumbayah Clique that in the past (remember Green?) ripped down our public school stock, and stopped having a curriculum of education and student success, by measurable standards. If this institution does "mold students into corporate commodities", it is into the shape of the burgers they will be flippin'. Nothin' corporate about, "Would you like fries with that happy deal?" I thank a teacher I can write this, Keith Reitman NearNorth TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
Why not just go ahead and complete the process that has been taking place for the past 20 years. Make the schools nothing but a training ground to mold students into corporate commodities. Forget about independent and critical thinking. Forget about training students to become politically aware and even active citizens who can come to their own conclusions about social and political issues, and even, god-forbid, exercise their prerogative to dissent. In fact, don't just forget about teaching students about freedom and democracy. Fire any teachers and administrators who dare to encourage such development. And to enforce the corporate oligarchy and emerging dictatorship, systematically deny economic opportunities to anyone who anyone with the gall to have even been placed in a school district that shows any sign of tolerating political diversity. Sounds like Craig, et al. have the program for destroying any liberty for future generations. Jordan Kushner downtown lawyer - Original Message - From: "Craig Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 7:57 AM Subject: [Mpls] What is your school up to? > I believe that the schools that organize and allow kids to take class time > off to go out and protest are > using taxpayer money for political purposes and bordering on brainwashing > the kids. > > It has been many years since I was on the frontline of management in the > private sector. You know the position, hiring firing, and being the one who > shows up early and stays late. > > Well, if I ever have to be in that thankless position again, I've got news > for the Mpls School Board. > > All things being equal between two job applicants.I'm going to remember > which school district thought it was ok to stop teaching math, reading, and > writing. > > Tough decisions made easy by the Minneapolis School Board. To those parents > who fail to prevent this nonsense. Shame on you. Your doing your children > such a disservice. > > Craig Miller > Rogers MN > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > TEMPORARY REMINDER: > 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. > 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. > > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your school up to?
--Original Message Follows From: "Craig Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I believe that the schools that organize and allow kids to take class time ff to go out and protest are using taxpayer money for political purposes and bordering on brainwashing the kids. I take it that this is brainwashing, where as having them stand to say the Pledge of Allegiance would be ok? I may be reading between the lines in your message, but I'm extrapolating from your bias. I would argue that, perhaps, protesting is a lesson in civics. The schools shouldn't condone it, but neither should they condemn it. The rest of your message showed your intention to discriminate against any future hirees based on their political beliefs. Seems rather counter-productive. Jim McGuire Como _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] What is your school up to?
I believe that the schools that organize and allow kids to take class time off to go out and protest are using taxpayer money for political purposes and bordering on brainwashing the kids. It has been many years since I was on the frontline of management in the private sector. You know the position, hiring firing, and being the one who shows up early and stays late. Well, if I ever have to be in that thankless position again, I've got news for the Mpls School Board. All things being equal between two job applicants.I'm going to remember which school district thought it was ok to stop teaching math, reading, and writing. Tough decisions made easy by the Minneapolis School Board. To those parents who fail to prevent this nonsense. Shame on you. Your doing your children such a disservice. Craig Miller Rogers MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
