Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 18.12.2017 22:49, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Web apps users have different needs and expect different behaviour to desktop applications. Not in my world :-). Same consists of embedded software that most of the time does not need any GUI at all. But usually a network connection is available. But it needs to be monitored or configured whenever necessary. Here either a) some hardware could be provided to have the maintainer do that (i.e. a local GUI using some standard library (such as mseGUI) and some standard widget set) b) a standard web server or web server interface (such as CGI or Apache API) is implemented and a standard browser is used to attach to the device. c) some propriety protocol and a dedicated software to run on a PC is implemented. The communication could be either defined by the GUI library (-> ifi) or be propriety according to the needs of the application (GUI and "Business-Code" separation). Finally: b1) part of the application runs on the remote site in the browser, the communication could be either defined by the GUI library (-> ifi) or be propriety according to the needs of the application. The application might either run on dedicated hardware or on a web server. Now in a perfect world it should be possible do to a normal (mse-)GUI application (->a) and just set a switch to compile it to work according to (->b). Of course it would be acceptable if only a subset of the full range of visual components is provided in such portable way. Obviously b) and b1) ask for pas2js (or even better for pascal to webassembly) compilation. -Michael -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 18.12.2017 16:24, Martin Schreiber wrote: Sure. Please have a look to the MSEgui sources, they are here: https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseide-msegui/tree/master/lib/common Do you really think that code is appropriate to run as Javascript? Of course this will be a decent challenge :-). And existing code itself is not the only challenge. On top of that the code would need to be enhanced to use the basic widgets (or whatever such is called) provided by the browser, instead of the basic widgets it currently use (and which supposedly are different depending on the OS/Widgetset it is compiled for). The original mail by Michael Van Canneyt suggests that something like that would be planned with Lazarus. I'm staying tuned -Michael -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 2017-12-18 12:40, Martin Schreiber wrote: If one needs a browser application one should make a browser application with the dedicated tools IMHO. Yup, our company is fighting that battle as we speak. Web apps users have different needs and expect different behaviour to desktop applications. A case in point (which our company had to implement). A basic desktop database application that uses some DB grid component - displaying some 100-500 records. Speed is good, and desktop users are happy. Web apps simply take too long to load such an amount of rows, and doesn't scale well. Instead, web users expect say 25 rows at a time and a Back/Next set of buttons to page through the data, and maybe a better data filter before data is displayed. Exactly why Google implemented that behaviour in Gmail, and thousands of others do the same thing. Desktop app vs Web app is not a 1:1 relationship. They require different UI and backend designs. Regards, Graeme -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 12/18/2017 10:08 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: > On the fpc mailing list: > > On 16.12.2017 17:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: >> >> Hello fellow Pascal enthousiasts, >> >> It is with great pleasure that I can finally announce the first publicly >> available version of pas2js. A "beta" version, version 0.8.39. ... >> pas2js is a Object Pascal to Javascript transpiler. It compiles Object >> pascal, and emits Javascript. The javascript is usable in the browser, >> and >> in Node.js. > > Maybe with that compiling the ifi "GUI" component to run in a Browser > (and have it attach to GUI-less fpc applications) is in reach... > > For me this would be a major reason to use and recommend mseGUI. > Suggestion: Do it yourself or pay for it. Most likely an investment of several 100'000 Euro. Martin -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On Monday 18 December 2017 15:43:26 Michael Schnell wrote: > On 18.12.2017 13:40, Martin Schreiber wrote: > > I doubt that it is possible to run such a complex program like MSEgui by > > a "Pascal-Javascript-transpiller" and I doubt that it is a good idea to > > run a high quality desktop application in a browser. If one needs a > > browser application one should make a browser application with the > > dedicated tools IMHO. > > I just suggest to try to run the GUI part of an "IFI" pair of > applications in the Browser. (And of course not the mse IDE.) > Sure. Please have a look to the MSEgui sources, they are here: https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mseide-msegui/tree/master/lib/common Do you really think that code is appropriate to run as Javascript? Martin -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 12/18/2017 12:39 PM, Michael Schnell wrote: > On 18.12.2017 10:29, Martin Schreiber wrote: >> AFAIK it does not support interfaces nor pointers. >> Why not use one of the many javascript frameworks instead? >> > Ifi provides the native visual components provided by mseGUI so you can > do a project and switch between local and remote GUI without writing any > additional code. > I doubt that it is possible to run such a complex program like MSEgui by a "Pascal-Javascript-transpiller" and I doubt that it is a good idea to run a high quality desktop application in a browser. If one needs a browser application one should make a browser application with the dedicated tools IMHO. Martin -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 18.12.2017 10:29, Martin Schreiber wrote: AFAIK it does not support interfaces nor pointers. Why not use one of the many javascript frameworks instead? Ifi provides the native visual components provided by mseGUI so you can do a project and switch between local and remote GUI without writing any additional code. -Michael -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On 12/18/2017 10:08 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: > On the fpc mailing list: > > On 16.12.2017 17:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: >> >> Hello fellow Pascal enthousiasts, >> >> It is with great pleasure that I can finally announce the first publicly >> available version of pas2js. A "beta" version, version 0.8.39. ... >> pas2js is a Object Pascal to Javascript transpiler. It compiles Object >> pascal, and emits Javascript. The javascript is usable in the browser, >> and >> in Node.js. > > Maybe with that compiling the ifi "GUI" component to run in a Browser > (and have it attach to GUI-less fpc applications) is in reach... > AFAIK it does not support interfaces nor pointers. Why not use one of the many javascript frameworks instead? Martin -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
On the fpc mailing list: On 16.12.2017 17:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Hello fellow Pascal enthousiasts, It is with great pleasure that I can finally announce the first publicly available version of pas2js. A "beta" version, version 0.8.39. ... pas2js is a Object Pascal to Javascript transpiler. It compiles Object pascal, and emits Javascript. The javascript is usable in the browser, and in Node.js. Maybe with that compiling the ifi "GUI" component to run in a Browser (and have it attach to GUI-less fpc applications) is in reach... For me this would be a major reason to use and recommend mseGUI. (IMHO fpc for Webassembly would be even more viable, but AFAI this is just in a very early stage right now...) -Michael -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
[MSEide-MSEgui-talk] Rich internet Application
Hi mse community, Do you monitor the thread "Re: [Lazarus] Quick Video: A Web Application" in the Lazarus mailing List, saying: "Normally, early december a RC version of pas2js will be released. pasjs currently is more or less at the level of D7 compatibility (minus interfaces and pointers) ??? IMHO using mse it should be possible to be enhanced with an easy to use framework for "rich Internet applications" by this. Making use of goodies provided by mse (but not by Lazarus): - mse-IFI for doing a fully grown server based application with a remote GUI - the IFI GUI part compiled by pasjs running in the Browser - WebSockets for communication between them The not that much "Windows inspired" GUI in mse-gui might be better suited to allow the GUI designer to create the resources for a browser-based GUI. -Michael -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
