Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> The Turbo-R has a timer build in that is increased every 1 microsecond or so. > Maybe 2 or more microseconds, I don't known the exact value. And it did > have something todo with I/O ports E5 / E6, or any number near these numbers. I/O ports E5/E6... that's the timer of the MSX-MIDI. It also has another timer used by the PCM play routines. However, it is only 2-bit or so... > All I know for sure is that when writing into the FM-PAC registers the core code > for playing music uses this timer to wait between two OUT (port),register/value > instructions. If the timer isn't increased than the whole program will lock up. > > This behaviour is also implemented in my own TSR program Micro Music. Oh? What is it??? > The MSX2+ does not have this timer, by my knowledge. Nope... ~Grauw -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
RE: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
>I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM >sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it >uses. Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine with >at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the >R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can tell >it to us? I think PCM is not used. About speed, try to desactivate R800 while playing and you'll why this game is for turbo R :) Regards, Manuel MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
Alex Wulms wrote: > I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM > sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it Could it be the music? I once did a simulation and only could get a drumset similar to IC's one with a sampled kickdrum + PSG noise chan- nel. I think IC's music is rather unusual in sound resources, even for a MicroCabin's sound- track. []s, Parn MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 23:07 24/07/99 +0200, you wrote: >] >> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do >] >> without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. >] >Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. >I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM >sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it >uses. Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine with >at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the >R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can tell >it to us? As I've been told, Illusion City was developed by Microcabin specifically 4 the T-R because Panasonic needed some software which used some of the new 'features' of its new computer... Only this. Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - ICQ UIN:3635907 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]|_Sola Scriptura | http://i.am/rjp -M.Sc. Numerical Modelling (hope so!) |_ Sola Gratia | UFF - Niteroi - RJ - Brazil - [EMAIL PROTECTED]_| Sola Fide | MSX, ST, B5, X-F, Anime, Christian, Maths, CuD, Linux!_| Solo Cristi | Christian, Rock, Comics, Transformers, and hate M$! | Soli Deo Gloria | After B5... Phrase found painted in a wall in Brasilia: "Remember Biri" MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 10:51 22/07/99 +0200, you wrote: >> > So, www.xxx.cjb.net is an alias for xxx.cjb.net, which again is an alias >> for >> > another URL/computer. >> >> Well that could be, but it could also be that only www.xxx.cjb.net exists >> and that Internet Explorer automatically tries www.xxx.cjb.net if >> xxx.cjb.net is not found. So it could as well be a client-side as a >> server-side alias. > >lynx phoenix.cjb.net works. No www needed! So why would internet explorer (or >whatever) put www in front of it? Internerd Exploder is fudeba. Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - ICQ UIN:3635907 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]|_Sola Scriptura | http://i.am/rjp -M.Sc. Numerical Modelling (hope so!) |_ Sola Gratia | UFF - Niteroi - RJ - Brazil - [EMAIL PROTECTED]_| Sola Fide | MSX, ST, B5, X-F, Anime, Christian, Maths, CuD, Linux!_| Solo Cristi | Christian, Rock, Comics, Transformers, and hate M$! | Soli Deo Gloria | After B5... Phrase found painted in a wall in Brasilia: "Remember Biri" MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
The Turbo-R has a timer build in that is increased every 1 microsecond or so. Maybe 2 or more microseconds, I don't known the exact value. And it did have something todo with I/O ports E5 / E6, or any number near these numbers. All I know for sure is that when writing into the FM-PAC registers the core code for playing music uses this timer to wait between two OUT (port),register/value instructions. If the timer isn't increased than the whole program will lock up. This behaviour is also implemented in my own TSR program Micro Music. The MSX2+ does not have this timer, by my knowledge. Laurens Holst wrote: > > ] >> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City > can do > > ] >> without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little > while. > > ] >Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. > > I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any > PCM > > sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it > > uses. Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine > with > > at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the > > R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can > tell > > it to us? > > Well at least it uses some 'new' instructions in the loader, but they are > all LD IXh and IYh-alike instructions, which are also available on the Z80. > > I will proceed disassembling, to look if I can find the tricky thing why it > doesn't run on an MSX2+... > > ~Grauw > > -- > >< > email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 > visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ > MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ > >< > > > MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put > in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the > quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/) > MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
] As you point out, the only reasons are speed and -maybe- memory. The game I ] heard that is compressed, and the text is compressed and encrypted, hence ] Oasis never even attempted a translation. Sigh... The text is not compressed and not encrypted. Oasis had a look at it, but the game is just too hard to translate. There is simply not enough space to replace the compact kanji text (in which two kanjisigns can form an entire word) with the long alphabet-based text system (in which you need many characters to form a single word) that we are used too. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Alex Wulms/XelaSoft - MSX of anders NIX - Linux 4 ever See my homepage for info on the *** XSA *** format http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
RE: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
Hello Alex > I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM > sample on it. And you are right. >I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it uses. Losing reflexes? Tsk tsk... ;)) > Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine with > at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the > R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can tell > it to us? As you point out, the only reasons are speed and -maybe- memory. The game I heard that is compressed, and the text is compressed and encrypted, hence Oasis never even attempted a translation. Sigh... CYA MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> ] >> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do > ] >> without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. > ] >Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. > I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM > sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it > uses. Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine with > at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the > R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can tell > it to us? Well at least it uses some 'new' instructions in the loader, but they are all LD IXh and IYh-alike instructions, which are also available on the Z80. I will proceed disassembling, to look if I can find the tricky thing why it doesn't run on an MSX2+... ~Grauw -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
] >> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do ] >> without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. ] >Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. I have played Illusion City from the start to the end and never heard any PCM sample on it. I haven't got a clue which MSX turbo R specific feature it uses. Perhaps the fact that in Japan the MSX turbo R is the only machine with at least 256kB of main memory. Or perhaps the game needs the speed of the R800. Who knows? Perhaps the programmer of the MSX turbo R emulator can tell it to us? Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Alex Wulms/XelaSoft - MSX of anders NIX - Linux 4 ever See my homepage for info on the *** XSA *** format http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> Changing the code has to be done for every program. It would probably have > to be done partly manually. And the modified program won't run on turbo R > anymore. As if I care... They can still use the original. ~Grauw -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> > So, to come back to what you're saying: > > > However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net > > > > So, www.xxx.cjb.net is an alias for xxx.cjb.net, which again is an alias > for > > another URL/computer. > > Well that could be, but it could also be that only www.xxx.cjb.net exists > and that Internet Explorer automatically tries www.xxx.cjb.net if > xxx.cjb.net is not found. So it could as well be a client-side as a > server-side alias. lynx phoenix.cjb.net works. No www needed! So why would internet explorer (or whatever) put www in front of it? > > So this is not true, and even not logical to do. > > No, I meant something different than I said. I meant that they auto-add www > in front of it if the URL is not found. Would that make sense then? Might be. Lynx doesn't do it, although it tries to guess if the URL given doesn't exists. Netscape 3.01 (Unix) also doesn't. (It doesn't guess at all) > > So, no! No-one has to add 'www' to an URL if it doesn't start with it, > since > > then it would be a different URL! > > Yeah yeah okay. All depends on if it's aliased on server- or client-side. > > I mean, in Internet Explorer even simply typing yahoo will work! It will > first try yahoo. Won't work. Then tries www.yahoo won't work. Then tries > www.yahoo.com and yes it works! Halleluja! > That's client-side aliasing. Hmm, when I try "lynx yahoo", I get on the page of WIde Access (Host provider). When I try "lynx infoseek" it goes to infoseek.go.com... Funny. But OK, this is getting too off-topic! Grtjs, Manuel ((m)ICQ UIN 41947405) PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my homepage at http://www.sci.kun.nl/marie/home/manuelbi/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
Maarten ter Huurne wrote: > > At 08:36 PM 7/20/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >why not make some kind of mappingdevice (before the cpu) to map r800 ops > >to z380 equivalents and remap all z380 ops that are used differently by > >r800 to completely different ops. > > Won't work. > The reason is that the Z380 doesn't indicate whether it's fetching > instructions or data. Instructions sound be remapped, data shouldn't. But > there is no way you can see which is which. stupid of me... i should have known.. i do ml i guess i was totally hyped by the phoenix stuff.. hehehe greetz aka MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:37:20 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: >> So, to come back to what you're saying: >> > However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net >> So, www.xxx.cjb.net is an alias for xxx.cjb.net, which again is an alias >for another URL/computer. >Well that could be, but it could also be that only www.xxx.cjb.net exists >and that Internet Explorer automatically tries www.xxx.cjb.net if >xxx.cjb.net is not found. So it could as well be a client-side as a >server-side alias. No. In the unique case of CJB.NET, you can always use with or without the WWW, Both ways go to the same page. []'s Daniel Caetano MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 08:36 PM 7/20/99 +0200, you wrote: >why not make some kind of mappingdevice (before the cpu) to map r800 ops >to z380 equivalents and remap all z380 ops that are used differently by >r800 to completely different ops. Won't work. The reason is that the Z380 doesn't indicate whether it's fetching instructions or data. Instructions sound be remapped, data shouldn't. But there is no way you can see which is which. Even if it would work, it would be slow things down a lot. Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 08:47 PM 7/20/99 +0200, you wrote: >> Easier said than done. How can you tell apart an opcode from a sequence of >> data bytes? Example: a byte with contents #3E, does it mean "LD A,n" or >> does it mean the number 62? >> Maybe an adapted emulator could report all addresses of executed R800 >> instructions... > >No, no, in contrary. It's quite easy. First, all those instructions have >multi-byte opcode, don't they? Do the chance you get something wrong is >already minimized. Probality of a two-byte code popping up in a random stream are 2^-16. Ofcourse a game isn't random data, but I have no idea whether that will increase or decrease the probality. Anyway, disk-sized games have a lot more data than code. You can expect about 10 false hits per disk. As you said, when you examine the area around it it's usually easy to see if it's code or not. But it would have to be done manually and it would take time. It's similar to the process of cracking megaroms. >Yeah, okay, that's cool. But not the OPL4-way, because the OPL4 sampleunit >really SUCKS!!! It can play nice samples but there are three disadvantages: >1. The sample always has to loop at the end, you can't just let it stop. That's not a real problem, because you don't have to loop the entire sample. You can simply add some silence at the end and loop that. >2. Therefor, the OPL4 can't generate an interrupt if the sample is finished, >and "Therefore" is not true. The MSX-AUDIO can loop samples and generate an interrupt when the looping happens. >3. You can't play sound and access the SampleRAM at the same time. This is a real problem. >What I'm trying to say is for example in case of a >screensplit: try not to assume it arrived at a certain line after some >initializations before the real lineinterrupt, but keep track of the amount >of H_BLANKs, even if this makes you to put the screensplit a few 'lines' >higher. The amount of H_BLANKs doesn't have to be the same every interrupt. For example if the interrupts were disabled to a while, it can be longer. Or image an interrupt routine that doesn't execute the exact same code every time. Or a future MSX system with a cache. What I do is estimate a worst case, say 4 lines. I put the initial line interrupt 4 lines before the real line. When the interrupt occurs, I put the real line in the line interrupt register and start polling the line interrupt status. >1. Can this archive easily be automated? (a program which copies the >messages, eventually filters them and auto-uploads them to a server, in the >right directory, right layout?), and I think so. We could ask Sean, I bet he didn't upload all those mails manually. >2. This summary would be a hell of a job. The number of today's messages for >example was 43 (!!!). Well okay three days ago I only recieved 8 but still, >eh? Although ofcourse only the messages with [Phoenix] in the subject have >to be summarized. It would be a lot of work, but not too much. Large parts of messages do not have to be part of the summary. And someone actively following the Phoenix discussion would read all messages anyway. I think a summary is really useful, both for the people discussing and as a kind of "newsletter" to the outside world. Rotating the summary task between people sounds like a good idea to me. >By the way, why is WWW.MSX.COM still not occupied? It definately is a nice >URL, and more logic then, for example, www.msxnet.org or www.msx.org . .org is for non-profit organisations, .com for commercial ones. I'm not sure if there is a kind of law enforcing it or that it's just guidelines, but anyway that's the logic behind it. >Hey, if we think this is a good idea, and we can get some people go for it, >donating some money (I am willing to pay about 10 to 25 bucks monthly or so >for it, provided I am one of the webmasters :)). Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not willing to spend that amount of money for that purpose. But if there are enough people who do, please go ahead and centralize those useful MSX information sites. Simply give the people who already provide those services an account on the new server. And give some disk space to Arnaud, so he doesn't have to move his files around from one free web space provider to another... Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> DNS servers/entries don't have to start with www at all! There are plenty of > URL's whcih doesn't (and can't) start with www. E.g., there is a computer on > the university here, called studs. If I run a httpd (HTTP daemon) on it (thus: > a http server), you should use the URL: http://studs.sci.kun.nl/ to reach it! > With 'www' before it, it will not work. No, then it would actually access the > computer named "www", instead of "studs"! You can ofcourse make it work with > www to do some aliassing But in general it's nonsense that all URL's start > with 'www' and browsers shouldn't put 'www' in front of the URL automaticly. > The browsers I use don't do that! Lynx and Netscape 3.01 (Unix) don't. Well okay but if an URL is not found at least Internet Explorer automatically adds www in front of it. But anyways nice to know. > So, to come back to what you're saying: > > However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net > > So, www.xxx.cjb.net is an alias for xxx.cjb.net, which again is an alias for > another URL/computer. Well that could be, but it could also be that only www.xxx.cjb.net exists and that Internet Explorer automatically tries www.xxx.cjb.net if xxx.cjb.net is not found. So it could as well be a client-side as a server-side alias. > > think the DNS servers support this (have to look that up), > > Support what?? Does this make any sense? No. Sorry. I have just still not looked at the DNS-part of internet (project "i" is still using IP-adresses only) > > practically all browsers automatically add www to it > > So this is not true, and even not logical to do. No, I meant something different than I said. I meant that they auto-add www in front of it if the URL is not found. > >And the users of browsers who don't do that (I don't know one) will > >probably know they have to add www to an url if it doesn't start with > >it. > > So, no! No-one has to add 'www' to an URL if it doesn't start with it, since > then it would be a different URL! Yeah yeah okay. All depends on if it's aliased on server- or client-side. I mean, in Internet Explorer even simply typing yahoo will work! It will first try yahoo. Won't work. Then tries www.yahoo won't work. Then tries www.yahoo.com and yes it works! Halleluja! That's client-side aliasing. ~Grauw -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 07:58 PM 7/20/99 +0200, you wrote: >> It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an >> interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can >> be redirected to another single processor that only execute these >> instructions. > >Why not let the software (some small routine(s) in page 3) do that??? Nah, >if some program switches page 3 away or corrupts it it won't work anymore... If trapping would have worked, it would automatically run all R800 programs. Changing the code has to be done for every program. It would probably have to be done partly manually. And the modified program won't run on turbo R anymore. Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 08:00 PM 7/20/99 +0200, you wrote: >> That only works if the opcodes are unused (no instruction is mapped to >> them). But if a different Z380 instruction is mapped to the R800 opcode, >> it is not trapped but the (wrong) Z380 instruction is executed instead. >> I think the latter is the case: R800 opcodes speficy different >> instructions on Z380. > >Are you talking about the doubled instructions like the 'second' LD HL,(nn) >etc.??? I think thase aren't used anyway, because their counterpart is >smaller and faster. No, I'm talking about MULUB and other R800-specific instructions. If the opcode for MULUB would be unused on Z380, it could be trapped (kind-of software interrupt) and a handler could be written that emulated MULUB. But if the opcode is used for a new Z380 instruction, the trapping mechanism doesn't apply. >> Yes, the web page will serve as a reference and a log, but it won't be the >> place where the discussion is held. > >Agree. But I'm still worried. The two of us seem to agree on most points, but we're not hardware developers. Could they please give their opinion? I would even prefer a negative opinion over silence. Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> CJB is nice indeed. And it looks far more better then come.to/phoenix
> However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net I don't
> think the DNS servers support this (have to look that up), but at least
> practically all browsers automatically add www to it. And the users of
> browsers who don't do that (I don't know one) will probably know they have
> to add www to an url if it doesn't start with it.
DNS servers/entries don't have to start with www at all! There are plenty of
URL's whcih doesn't (and can't) start with www. E.g., there is a computer on
the university here, called studs. If I run a httpd (HTTP daemon) on it (thus:
a http server), you should use the URL: http://studs.sci.kun.nl/ to reach it!
With 'www' before it, it will not work. No, then it would actually access the
computer named "www", instead of "studs"! You can ofcourse make it work with
www to do some aliassing But in general it's nonsense that all URL's start
with 'www' and browsers shouldn't put 'www' in front of the URL automaticly.
The browsers I use don't do that! Lynx and Netscape 3.01 (Unix) don't.
So, to come back to what you're saying:
> However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net
So, www.xxx.cjb.net is an alias for xxx.cjb.net, which again is an alias for
another URL/computer.
> think the DNS servers support this (have to look that up),
Support what?? Does this make any sense?
> practically all browsers automatically add www to it
So this is not true, and even not logical to do.
>And the users of browsers who don't do that (I don't know one) will
>probably know they have to add www to an url if it doesn't start with
>it.
So, no! No-one has to add 'www' to an URL if it doesn't start with it, since
then it would be a different URL!
Grtjs, Manuel ((m)ICQ UIN 41947405) ("Better to talk about stuff you DO know
something about! Like the nice Toshiba info you gave me!" ;-)
PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/)
PPS: Visit my homepage at http://www.sci.kun.nl/marie/home/manuelbi/
MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put
in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the
quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
>>> I have some space left and I'm allowed to use CGI. I don't have the >>>ability to aquire my own domain name, the shortest I can offer ends in >>> "/~mth/phoenix/". But does a domain name really matter? Ofcourse it looks >>> cool, but anyone who's really interested can bookmark a more complicated >>> URL. >>It's not about bookmarking I think. you should be able to remember it, to >>tell about it to others... > > Create a redirection on http://www.cjb.net/ . I can arrange an URL like http://phoenix.msx.tni.nl/ If needed, I have a few MB's on my server and CGI. I can even provide a FTP! (like ftp://ftp.tni.nl/msx/phoenix/) Just let me know! ^_^ Patriek ,--. ,---. ,--. Homepage: \"To make a mistake is | '--.| __ \ \__/ http://www.tni.nl// human, but to really | __|| | | | ,--. E-mail: \ fuck things up, you | | | | | | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] / need a computer." | '---' | | '--' | \- Glenn Scott, \_| || The New Image -since 1991-/ Secret Agent W7 MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
[OpCodes Pre-Processor Running before Z380] >Well then I think we should be able to enable/disable this preprocessor by >software, and that it is also featured in the bootroutines. So if you keep >for instance TAB pressed then the preprocessor will be activated, and >otherwise it won't. >Because if I'm going to program for the Z380 I don't want to use remapped >instructions which don't comply with the documentation and books about it. I >don't like that at all. That's the idea! (-: >> Ya... I know that it's possible to use >> http://phoenix.cjb.net/ >Have you already signed up an account??? >I tried it and it redirects me to some sails.com-site or so... The URL >doesn't work, but www.sails.com DOES exist. If it's theirs then if we ask >kindly they might give the URL to us. They don't seem to use it... Well... It's being used. I created the http://www.msxproject.cjb.net/ http://www.phoenixproject.cjb.net/ http://www.msxphoenix.cjb.net/ http://www.phoenixmsx.cjb.net/ These are redirecting to my page (for now). Now I will allocate some Geocities space to place the page and change all these addresses to this new page. When I've done that, I'll send a new message here. []'s Daniel Caetano. MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> [z380 interrupt for unknown opcodes] > >> It would be a lot more interesting, because avoid changing programs. > >> (AFAIK, this thing can be done even on Z80, but the processor for R800 > >> instructions must be BEFORE the Z80, and this will be a bit more > >complicated > >> to build). > >Ah... nice feature! Didn't know about that. > > Unfortunately it only works for unknown opcodes. If some of the additional > R800 opcodes match to another opcode of z380, the interrupt will not > occour, and the processor will act strange... Probably will hang. > As someone said, Z380 has instructions with the opcodes of the > addtional R800 ones... This is not good and means that, if we want > TurboR compatablity, we will need to put an opcodes pre-processor > before the Z380. This is possible, but sounds a bit complex. Well then I think we should be able to enable/disable this preprocessor by software, and that it is also featured in the bootroutines. So if you keep for instance TAB pressed then the preprocessor will be activated, and otherwise it won't. Because if I'm going to program for the Z380 I don't want to use remapped instructions which don't comply with the documentation and books about it. I don't like that at all. > >The email-program in project "i" will feature filters (although probably not > >in the first versions). > > This is very nice. Well that's the idea. > Ya... I know that it's possible to use > > http://phoenix.cjb.net/ Have you already signed up an account??? I tried it and it redirects me to some sails.com-site or so... The URL doesn't work, but www.sails.com DOES exist. If it's theirs then if we ask kindly they might give the URL to us. They don't seem to use it... ~Grauw -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:47:08 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: >> >I bet the Z380 has a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... >> It has multiplication instructions, but I don't know if they're exactly >> the same. >Mwa... I think so. Only other opcode I think. I do not remember that, but Z380 have a lot of MULT instructions... And even DIV instructions... (-: >No, no, in contrary. It's quite easy. First, all those instructions have >multi-byte opcode, don't they? Do the chance you get something wrong is >already minimized. Second, you can look at the byte before it. If it's the >opcode of an LD HL,nn-like instruction the it probably won't be the >instruction you're looking for (unless the programmer used 'nested' >instructions, which is not used often though, only in BIOSses). Next, you >can show the surrounding code and if it makes sense, then it's a REAL >multiplication-instruction. If it doesn't, it's probably data. It might even >be possible to let a program automatically decide if the surrounding data is >code... >Also, I don't know what the opcode is, but I think it's not a simple one, so >it's highly inlikely that the opcode will be (referred to as) data. Believe me... It's impossible do this. (-: There is the need of a pre-processor that knows all opcodes of R800 and, when turned on, will act just like the R800, but will interpret the R800 only opcodes and pass to Z380 the common opcodes. This pre-processor would be almost a full processor. >> Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do >> without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. >Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. I'm not sure of that... (-: But I think it uses. MIDI it will not use as a need, because it is not on ST... But PCM is standard on both ST and GT. So, it's strange think in a program for TR that not uses it... It would be like an MSX2+ program that uses V9938 and doesn't make use of FM... (-: I saw Illusion City only one time, and I see it before Fray TR... I remember that FrayTR uses PCM to reproduce voices... But I'm not sure if Illusion City has voices... >Yeah, okay, that's cool. But not the OPL4-way, because the OPL4 sampleunit >really SUCKS!!! It can play nice samples but there are three disadvantages: >1. The sample always has to loop at the end, you can't just let it stop. Really? Yuck! /-: >2. Therefor, the OPL4 can't generate an interrupt if the sample is finished, This is not really bad, but would be usefull... >3. You can't play sound and access the SampleRAM at the same time. >Resulting in a maximum sample-length of 64k (using an 8-bit sample). >Therefor, the OPL4 is, although it supports high frequency, high quality >samples (16 bit, 44.1kHz), definately NOT FIT to play large samples like >.WAV-files. Look, OPL4 is not a PCM Player. OPL4 is a WaveTable... (-: And WaveTables are not made to play PCM sounds (like WAVs). It's very important to exist a WaveTable AND a PCM unit. >It would be the best if you could tell the sampling-device to generate an >interrupt at byte X, therefor enabling the program to start filling the >SampleRAM again a short while before it runs out of SampleRAM (although this >is not a nice solution, because it could result in problems on future >too-fast MSX computers... But let's not assume this). Also, the presence of >this device would make it possible for game-developers to support sampled >soundeffects for the non-MoonSound users. I think it would be nice if the interruptions of sound were interpreted into the sound board... I really don't like interruptions on the main processor. (-: >Ah, and by the way, MSX-programmers should in the future avoid to develop >speed-sensitive programs. What I'm trying to say is for example in case of a >screensplit: try not to assume it arrived at a certain line after some >initializations before the real lineinterrupt, but keep track of the amount >of H_BLANKs, even if this makes you to put the screensplit a few 'lines' >higher. Like some video games does...? []'s Daniel Caetano MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:58:11 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: [z380 interrupt for unknown opcodes] >> It would be a lot more interesting, because avoid changing programs. >> (AFAIK, this thing can be done even on Z80, but the processor for R800 >> instructions must be BEFORE the Z80, and this will be a bit more >complicated >> to build). >Ah... nice feature! Didn't know about that. Unfortunately it only works for unknown opcodes. If some of the additional R800 opcodes match to another opcode of z380, the interrupt will not occour, and the processor will act strange... Probably will hang. As someone said, Z380 has instructions with the opcodes of the addtional R800 ones... This is not good and means that, if we want TurboR compatablity, we will need to put an opcodes pre-processor before the Z380. This is possible, but sounds a bit complex. >> Who is interested on reading only this type of subject can use filters, >>present >> on almost all good message hearder (at least for PC, once I don't know any >> message reader for MSX). >The email-program in project "i" will feature filters (although probably not >in the first versions). This is very nice. >> Create a redirection on http://www.cjb.net/ . So people can acess it >> using something like: http://www.phoenix.cjb.net/ >CJB is nice indeed. And it looks far more better then come.to/phoenix >However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net I don't >think the DNS servers support this (have to look that up), but at least >practically all browsers automatically add www to it. And the users of >browsers who don't do that (I don't know one) will probably know they have >to add www to an url if it doesn't start with it. >come.to is in fact also www.come.to... Ya... I know that it's possible to use http://phoenix.cjb.net/ []'s Daniel Caetano MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> >> I'm not sure turbo R compatibility would be a good thing. You would need > >> an > >> R800-compatible processor for example, and as far as I know Z380 isn't. > > > >??? ISN'T IT ??? > > I looked up the opcodes for some of the R800 instructions and the Z380 has > different instructions mapped to those opcodes. Drat. (I like Dexter) > >Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the > >only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? > >The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). > > It was some time ago, I don't remember how much instructions are different > for Z80 and R800. > But it may be the case that Z380 doesn't supports all of the undocumented > Z80 instructions. > Anyway, those things can be looked up. Well now we know thay do. > >I bet the Z380 has a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... > > It has multiplication instructions, but I don't know if they're exactly the > same. Mwa... I think so. Only other opcode I think. > >So that shouldn't be too > >difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. > > Easier said than done. How can you tell apart an opcode from a sequence of > data bytes? Example: a byte with contents #3E, does it mean "LD A,n" or > does it mean the number 62? > Maybe an adapted emulator could report all addresses of executed R800 > instructions... No, no, in contrary. It's quite easy. First, all those instructions have multi-byte opcode, don't they? Do the chance you get something wrong is already minimized. Second, you can look at the byte before it. If it's the opcode of an LD HL,nn-like instruction the it probably won't be the instruction you're looking for (unless the programmer used 'nested' instructions, which is not used often though, only in BIOSses). Next, you can show the surrounding code and if it makes sense, then it's a REAL multiplication-instruction. If it doesn't, it's probably data. It might even be possible to let a program automatically decide if the surrounding data is code... Also, I don't know what the opcode is, but I think it's not a simple one, so it's highly inlikely that the opcode will be (referred to as) data. > >Maybe then I can finally play Illusion City! To play Illusion City, is MIDI > >nessacary? And is the PCM device nessacary??? What other points of > >incompatibility could it have??? > > Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do > without. > I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. Oh. Well, Daniel says it did. > >Well, actually I think a 'new' MSX should also have a PCM sampling device, > >so why not take the tuboR's sampleunit? > > I'm not particularly font of the way the turbo R's PCM works. Although it's > simple in hardware, it's not simple to use. I prefer a PCM device that uses > buffering. For example the way MSX-AUDIO handles ADPCM is nice, it plays > from sample RAM and can generate an interrupt when it's done playing. Yeah, okay, that's cool. But not the OPL4-way, because the OPL4 sampleunit really SUCKS!!! It can play nice samples but there are three disadvantages: 1. The sample always has to loop at the end, you can't just let it stop. 2. Therefor, the OPL4 can't generate an interrupt if the sample is finished, and 3. You can't play sound and access the SampleRAM at the same time. Resulting in a maximum sample-length of 64k (using an 8-bit sample). Therefor, the OPL4 is, although it supports high frequency, high quality samples (16 bit, 44.1kHz), definately NOT FIT to play large samples like .WAV-files. It is good for sounds and samples in games which can be done like 'I tell you to play the sound and I don't want you to bother me afterwards', though. It would be the best if you could tell the sampling-device to generate an interrupt at byte X, therefor enabling the program to start filling the SampleRAM again a short while before it runs out of SampleRAM (although this is not a nice solution, because it could result in problems on future too-fast MSX computers... But let's not assume this). Also, the presence of this device would make it possible for game-developers to support sampled soundeffects for the non-MoonSound users. Ah, and by the way, MSX-programmers should in the future avoid to develop speed-sensitive programs. What I'm trying to say is for example in case of a screensplit: try not to assume it arrived at a certain line after some initializations before the real lineinterrupt, but keep track of the amount of H_BLANKs, even if this makes you to put the screensplit a few 'lines' higher. > >> The bad thing of a new list is that many people won't subscribe to it, > >> although they may have interesting ideas. Maybe we can use this list and > >> put "[Phoenix]" in the subject? > > > >Yes, yes. They do that in the int-fiction newsgroup too!!! > >Only one thing: A lot of people are subscribed to the newsgroup but not to > >this list (I can understand that, sometimes the me
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
Daniel wrote: > >> I'm not sure turbo R compatibility would be a good thing. You would need > >> an R800-compatible processor for example, and as far as I know Z380 isn't. > >??? ISN'T IT ??? > > No, it is not. I'm sure of this. > > >Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the > >only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? > >The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). I bet the Z380 has > >a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... So that shouldn't be too > >difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. > > It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an > interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can > be redirected to another single processor that only execute these instructions. Why not let the software (some small routine(s) in page 3) do that??? Nah, if some program switches page 3 away or corrupts it it won't work anymore... > It would be a lot more interesting, because avoid changing programs. > (AFAIK, this thing can be done even on Z80, but the processor for R800 > instructions must be BEFORE the Z80, and this will be a bit more complicated > to build). Ah... nice feature! Didn't know about that. > but... it will be almost cosmetic, and will exist only for "strange" the strange > opcodes present on R800 and not on Z380. Besides, Z380 has a couple > of MULT instructions that are not present on R800. > And all "secret" Z80 opcodes are documented on Z380. Ok, I already thought so. That's good. > >> The bad thing of a new list is that many people won't subscribe to it, > >> although they may have interesting ideas. Maybe we can use this list and > >> put "[Phoenix]" in the subject? > >Yes, yes. They do that in the int-fiction newsgroup too!!! > >Only one thing: A lot of people are subscribed to the newsgroup but not to > >this list (I can understand that, sometimes the message-flow is a bit much > >here, while you can skip them in a newsgroup. Although the subjects are way > >more interesting here...). So I think we should find a solution to that... > > Who is interested on reading only this type of subject can use filters, present > on almost all good message hearder (at least for PC, once I don't know any > message reader for MSX). The email-program in project "i" will feature filters (although probably not in the first versions). > >> I have some space left and I'm allowed to use CGI. I don't have the > >>ability to aquire my own domain name, the shortest I can offer ends in > >> "/~mth/phoenix/". But does a domain name really matter? Ofcourse it looks > >> cool, but anyone who's really interested can bookmark a more complicated > >> URL. > >It's not about bookmarking I think. you should be able to remember it, to > >tell about it to others... > > Create a redirection on http://www.cjb.net/ . So people can acess it using something > like: > > http://www.phoenix.cjb.net/ CJB is nice indeed. And it looks far more better then come.to/phoenix However, did you know you can skip the www in www.phoenix.cjb.net I don't think the DNS servers support this (have to look that up), but at least practically all browsers automatically add www to it. And the users of browsers who don't do that (I don't know one) will probably know they have to add www to an url if it doesn't start with it. come.to is in fact also www.come.to... > It's free. :) I like that part of internet. ~Grauw "wants cable-modem" -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> >>Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the > >>only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? > >>The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). I bet the Z380 has > >>a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... So that shouldn't be too > >>difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. > > > > It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an > >interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can > >be redirected to another single processor that only execute these > >instructions. > > That only works if the opcodes are unused (no instruction is mapped to > them). But if a different Z380 instruction is mapped to the R800 opcode, it > is not trapped but the (wrong) Z380 instruction is executed instead. > I think the latter is the case: R800 opcodes speficy different instructions > on Z380. Are you talking about the doubled instructions like the 'second' LD HL,(nn) etc.??? I think thase aren't used anyway, because their counterpart is smaller and faster. > > I think it would be nice to make the suggestions and discussions here, and > >the need for a Web page will be only to comunicate to everyone the > >decisions (and not the suggestions or ideas). > > Yes, the web page will serve as a reference and a log, but it won't be the > place where the discussion is held. Agree. ~Grauw "to go where no-one has gone before" -- >< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit the Datax homepage at http://datax.cjb.net/ MSX fair Bussum / MSX Marathon homepage: http://msxfair.cjb.net/ >< MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
> >It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an > >interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can > >be redirected to another single processor that only execute these > >instructions. > > That only works if the opcodes are unused (no instruction is mapped to > them). But if a different Z380 instruction is mapped to the R800 opcode, it > is not trapped but the (wrong) Z380 instruction is executed instead. > I think the latter is the case: R800 opcodes speficy different instructions > on Z380. why not make some kind of mappingdevice (before the cpu) to map r800 ops to z380 equivalents and remap all z380 ops that are used differently by r800 to completely different ops. this way the z380 would become r800 compatible and still have it's unique ops greetz akai MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 04:51 PM 7/19/99 -0300, you wrote: >>Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the >>only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? >>The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). I bet the Z380 has >>a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... So that shouldn't be too >>difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. > > It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an >interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can >be redirected to another single processor that only execute these >instructions. That only works if the opcodes are unused (no instruction is mapped to them). But if a different Z380 instruction is mapped to the R800 opcode, it is not trapped but the (wrong) Z380 instruction is executed instead. I think the latter is the case: R800 opcodes speficy different instructions on Z380. > I think it would be nice to make the suggestions and discussions here, and >the need for a Web page will be only to comunicate to everyone the >decisions (and not the suggestions or ideas). Yes, the web page will serve as a reference and a log, but it won't be the place where the discussion is held. Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
At 08:44 PM 7/19/99 +0200, you wrote: >> I'm not sure turbo R compatibility would be a good thing. You would need >> an >> R800-compatible processor for example, and as far as I know Z380 isn't. > >??? ISN'T IT ??? I looked up the opcodes for some of the R800 instructions and the Z380 has different instructions mapped to those opcodes. >Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the >only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? >The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). It was some time ago, I don't remember how much instructions are different for Z80 and R800. But it may be the case that Z380 doesn't supports all of the undocumented Z80 instructions. Anyway, those things can be looked up. >I bet the Z380 has a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... It has multiplication instructions, but I don't know if they're exactly the same. >So that shouldn't be too >difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. Easier said than done. How can you tell apart an opcode from a sequence of data bytes? Example: a byte with contents #3E, does it mean "LD A,n" or does it mean the number 62? Maybe an adapted emulator could report all addresses of executed R800 instructions... >Maybe then I can finally play Illusion City! To play Illusion City, is MIDI >nessacary? And is the PCM device nessacary??? What other points of >incompatibility could it have??? Turbo R ST doesn't have MIDI, only GT has. So I guess Illusion City can do without. I'm not sure if it uses PCM, I played for only a little while. >Well, actually I think a 'new' MSX should also have a PCM sampling device, >so why not take the tuboR's sampleunit? I'm not particularly font of the way the turbo R's PCM works. Although it's simple in hardware, it's not simple to use. I prefer a PCM device that uses buffering. For example the way MSX-AUDIO handles ADPCM is nice, it plays from sample RAM and can generate an interrupt when it's done playing. >> The bad thing of a new list is that many people won't subscribe to it, >> although they may have interesting ideas. Maybe we can use this list and >> put "[Phoenix]" in the subject? > >Yes, yes. They do that in the int-fiction newsgroup too!!! >Only one thing: A lot of people are subscribed to the newsgroup but not to >this list (I can understand that, sometimes the message-flow is a bit much >here, while you can skip them in a newsgroup. Although the subjects are way >more interesting here...). So I think we should find a solution to that... It's possible with some mail programs to post on both. Manuel does it all the time. But ofcourse not everyone uses an integrated news and mail reader. Actually, do you think there are people on the newsgroup that are not on this list and want to participate in the Phoenix discussion? Most newsgroup people are either interested in emulators or in chatting. And if there are interested people, they can simply subscribe to this list. With all the web-based free e-mail sites, it should be no problem for someone with net access to aquire an e-mail address. And anyone with a little advanced mail program can filter messages, to separate this list from personal e-mail, or even separate Phoenix messages from the regular list traffic. >Will a web-based forum work??? No, I can tell from experience it doesn't work... >Although... I don't think it >will be visited really frequently, like a mailinglist, which you are forced >to pay attention to. ...And that's the reason why. >Maybe someone should put all or the important messages >concerning Phoenix (so with [Phoenix] in the subject-line) online on the >Phoenix webpage, or something like that... We could make an archive of all messages and put it on the Phoenix site. Does Sean still do this for all messages on this list? And maybe someone can regularly (once a week?) make a summary of the discussions. Those summaries would be posted on a separate section of the site. >It's not about bookmarking I think. you should be able to remember it, to >tell about it to others... OK, mailing the URL is one extra step, which might be problematic if more people have such a poor memory as I have. Bye, Maarten MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
Re: [Phoenix] Re: Phoenix project - The new MSX platform pro-standarization
On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:44:25 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: >> I'm not sure turbo R compatibility would be a good thing. You would need >> an R800-compatible processor for example, and as far as I know Z380 isn't. >??? ISN'T IT ??? No, it is not. I'm sure of this. >Well, then maybe we can disassemble and adapt turboR-programs. I mean, the >only non-Z380 compatible instructions are MULUW and MULUB, aren't they??? >The other ones also work on a Z80 (though undocumented). I bet the Z380 has >a good counterpart for MULUW and MULUB... So that shouldn't be too >difficult. Just search for the opcode and replace it. It can be made by hardware, because Z380 has a special feature, like an interrupt when an unknown command is found... So these instructions can be redirected to another single processor that only execute these instructions. It would be a lot more interesting, because avoid changing programs. (AFAIK, this thing can be done even on Z80, but the processor for R800 instructions must be BEFORE the Z80, and this will be a bit more complicated to build). but... it will be almost cosmetic, and will exist only for "strange" the strange opcodes present on R800 and not on Z380. Besides, Z380 has a couple of MULT instructions that are not present on R800. And all "secret" Z80 opcodes are documented on Z380. >Maybe then I can finally play Illusion City! To play Illusion City, is MIDI >nessacary? And is the PCM device nessacary??? What other points of >incompatibility could it have??? The MIDI is not necessary. The PCM is. BUT this can be easy copied. I'm trying to convince Ademir Carchano to made one for my CIEL 2+ Turbo. >Well, actually I think a 'new' MSX should also have a PCM sampling device, >so why not take the tuboR's sampleunit? I think it's wise to copy the TurboR one, only for compatability. Something better must be added. The PCM on TR is very primitive. >> The bad thing of a new list is that many people won't subscribe to it, >> although they may have interesting ideas. Maybe we can use this list and >> put "[Phoenix]" in the subject? >Yes, yes. They do that in the int-fiction newsgroup too!!! >Only one thing: A lot of people are subscribed to the newsgroup but not to >this list (I can understand that, sometimes the message-flow is a bit much >here, while you can skip them in a newsgroup. Although the subjects are way >more interesting here...). So I think we should find a solution to that... Who is interested on reading only this type of subject can use filters, present on almost all good message hearder (at least for PC, once I don't know any message reader for MSX). >Will a web-based forum work??? Just an idea... Although... I don't think it >will be visited really frequently, like a mailinglist, which you are forced >to pay attention to. Maybe someone should put all or the important messages >concerning Phoenix (so with [Phoenix] in the subject-line) online on the >Phoenix webpage, or something like that... I think it would be nice to make the suggestions and discussions here, and the need for a Web page will be only to comunicate to everyone the decisions (and not the suggestions or ideas). I think the need is to achieve into an MSX 3.0 (or MSX 4.0 if it will be backward compatible with TR) standard. With this on their hands, the hardware developers can easily develop their own hardware, based on the specs. And the programmers also will find easy to find the information on the Web Page. >> I have some space left and I'm allowed to use CGI. I don't have the >>ability to aquire my own domain name, the shortest I can offer ends in >> "/~mth/phoenix/". But does a domain name really matter? Ofcourse it looks >> cool, but anyone who's really interested can bookmark a more complicated >> URL. >It's not about bookmarking I think. you should be able to remember it, to >tell about it to others... Create a redirection on http://www.cjb.net/ . So people can acess it using something like: http://www.phoenix.cjb.net/ It's free. []'s Daniel Caetano MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the body (not subject) "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes :-) Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] (www.stack.nl/~wiebe/mailinglist/)
