Re: Going GUI...er
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 00:26:43 +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Ben Boeckel wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > >> Please remember that Google reads your mail. > > https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours Yeah, that's the post I was remembering. Thanks. > > I have been migrating to fastmail for my stuff (though mailing lists > > have not all been migrated yet). I'm happy with it at least. > > Fastmail is clearly preferable to Gmail, but that isn't saying much. > > Unlike both of those two: > > - Posteo's HQ and data center are both in the same, *relatively* > privacy-friendly, jurisdiction as each other (Germany), which reduces > its legal attack surface; Unfortunately, I learned of them after I had gotten moved to fastmail. However, looking, they do not support custom domains, so I'd have likely chosen fastmail anyways for my needs. --Ben
Re: Going GUI...er
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Ben Boeckel wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: >> On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote: >> >>> Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done >>> with it. >> >> Please remember that Google reads your mail. https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours > I have been migrating to fastmail for my stuff (though mailing lists > have not all been migrated yet). I'm happy with it at least. Fastmail is clearly preferable to Gmail, but that isn't saying much. Unlike both of those two: - Posteo's HQ and data center are both in the same, *relatively* privacy-friendly, jurisdiction as each other (Germany), which reduces its legal attack surface; - Posteo's web front end is free software; and - Posteo's servers run on renewable energy. So Derek, if you really are shopping around for webmail, please try Posteo in addition to (or instead of) Gmail or Fastmail. (I don't work for Posteo or have any other affiliation with them. I'm just a customer.) -- A: When it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: When is top-posting a bad thing? () ASCII ribbon campaign. Please avoid HTML emails & proprietary /\ file formats. (Why? See e.g. https://v.gd/jrmGbS ). Thank you.
Re: Going GUI...er
Mark H. Wood wrote: > If I were condemned to use only one of those gooey-fied MUAs, I would > be working on a plugin to configure-off all of the formatting, gather > the attachments into a menu to be viewed or ignored as I choose, pop > up an "are you sure?" dialog before following links, and generally > make it more like Mutt. There is a brilliant "are you sure?" addon for Thunderbird. It's called Torpedo by secuso.org. Not only does it make you wait 3 seconds and confirm before following any link to a domain that you haven't already gone to a few times before, it shows the URL in a way that makes it clear where you're going (e.g. https://paypal.com.evil.com/blah would show evil.com in bold), and if the URL is something like a tinyurl, it'll fetch the real URL and display that instead. It's a fantastic solution to phishing that all GUI MUAs should be doing by default but aren't. cheers, raf
Re: Going GUI...er
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote: > > > Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done > > with it. > > Please remember that Google reads your mail. I have been migrating to fastmail for my stuff (though mailing lists have not all been migrated yet). I'm happy with it at least. As for gmail reading your mail, with gmail getting some large percentage of email anyways, it's something that if I wanted to make sure, I'd use GPG or some other encryption mechanism. --Ben
Re: Going GUI...er
On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote: Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done with it. Please remember that Google reads your mail.
Re: Going GUI...er
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:18:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote: > I've said it before--I too would love a mutt-based (or mutt-similar) > GUI mail client. Frankly, no matter how much I love Mutt (and you > know I do), trying to make the case that Mutt's handling of modern, > every-day common e-mail messages is anything but clunky and backward > is insane. If I could find a GUI mailer that had half the power of > Mutt without the crashing/corruption of Claws and similar, I'd marry > that software. =8^) I haven't used it myself so can't personally recommend it, and don't entirely agree with your views above, but mu4e might more closely match your desires: https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Viewing-images-inline.html https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Displaying-rich_002dtext-messages.html -- A: When it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: When is top-posting a bad thing? () ASCII ribbon campaign. Please avoid HTML emails & proprietary /\ file formats. (Why? See e.g. https://v.gd/jrmGbS ). Thank you.
Re: Going GUI...er
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote: > On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:09:55AM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: >> I'll assume you mean that the email has multiple parts or >> attachments, one (or more) of which is an HTML file and one (or more) >> of which is an image file, and that the HTML file has an "img" >> element with a "src" attribute whose value is the name of the image >> file (at some path). >> >> (That is an inconsiderate way to send "email", but some people do >> it.) > > Sorry, but this is an archaic way of looking at the problem. People > have been doing this for decades now, has become the norm, common > practice, and really it is therefore WE who are being inconsiderate by > not accepting de facto standards that have been widely adopted for a > very long time. I disagree. You have made a "roads were built for cars" argument*: it assumes that today's "de facto standard" trumps historical precedent and considerate behaviour. I've nothing against people sending emails with multiple attachments. But expecting the recipient's MUA to parse multiple attachments into some kind of combined document is presumptuous, because clearly not everyone's MUA does this. And even if yours does: should it? As several people in this thread have pointed out (and as is also illustrated in the "Efail" paper by Poddebniak et al, linked in my footer), using such an MUA massively increases your attack surface. Making an MUA that works the way you are calling for and that is also secure might be possible, but I don't know of anyone who has achieved it yet. In the meantime, don't rue the functionality you feel you are missing. Please be thankful for the security and control that you have, and help others to achieve and be thankful for the same. * Historically, roads were *not* built for cars. See: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/23/roads-were-not-built-for-cars-carlton-reid-review https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/apr/16/roads-not-built-for-cars-book -- A: When it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: When is top-posting a bad thing? () ASCII ribbon campaign. Please avoid HTML emails & proprietary /\ file formats. (Why? See e.g. https://v.gd/jrmGbS ). Thank you.
Re: Going GUI...er
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:18:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote: > I've said it before--I too would love a mutt-based (or mutt-similar) > GUI mail client. Frankly, no matter how much I love Mutt (and you > know I do), trying to make the case that Mutt's handling of modern, > every-day common e-mail messages is anything but clunky and backward > is insane. Go ahead and call me crazy, then. For me, Mutt's handling of modern, every-day common e-mail messages is a feature. It strips away all of the distracting, intelligence-free clutter and lets me *read the message*. Compared to the competition, I find that use of Mutt is much more relaxing and pleasant. If I were condemned to use only one of those gooey-fied MUAs, I would be working on a plugin to configure-off all of the formatting, gather the attachments into a menu to be viewed or ignored as I choose, pop up an "are you sure?" dialog before following links, and generally make it more like Mutt. -- Mark H. Wood Lead Technology Analyst University Library Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis 755 W. Michigan Street Indianapolis, IN 46202 317-274-0749 www.ulib.iupui.edu signature.asc Description: PGP signature
