Re: Low cost WDM gear
Does anyone have a English speaking rep for FiberStore? I have a client with a difficult time ordering some custom stuff. Language barrier is a big issue. Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange On Feb 7, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-) Thanks for the feedback.. On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Michelle speaks English. On Apr 16, 2015, at 09:04 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN li...@mtin.net wrote: Does anyone have a English speaking rep for FiberStore? I have a client with a difficult time ordering some custom stuff. Language barrier is a big issue. Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange On Feb 7, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-) Thanks for the feedback.. On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework
RE: Low cost WDM gear
Hi Mike, You should try CYAN inc and the Z series. (US based) Very solid platform and very strong warranty. David Boisseleau -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+dboisseleau=fonex@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Colin Johnston Sent: February-07-15 6:29 PM To: Tim Durack Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Yes can do long distances without need to amplifier site (train tracks for example) but you need to make sure ground is stable and if using track bed of train track that the ballast is good and stable else ground tremors affect the signal quality. Colin On 7 Feb 2015, at 22:32, Tim Durack tdur...@gmail.com wrote: You can do ~500km without inline amplifier sites using EDFA+Raman+ROPA, but you are going to need some serious optical engineering to make that work. The more standard way to do it is amplifier sites every 80-100km for EDFA. If you are doing 10GigE you will need to allow for DCM also. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido. -- Tim:
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
For clarification, I do know that the mainstream vendors can take standard wavelengths and can do long distances, but that's where the arms and legs come in. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net To: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 11:41:40 AM Subject: Low cost WDM gear I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Are you looking for an active or passive solution? On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Well, I'm not an expert in the world of long haul optics, but I think I'd want active over passive for the ability to use standard interfaces on the equipment (routers, switches, etc.) at either end. Then again, maybe something has changed that I don't know about. I would also think active would be better able to go those 185 mile distances than passive. I assume I'd need an amplifier in the middle to even make it that far. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:17:35 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Are you looking for an active or passive solution? On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: blockquote Mike, blockquote /blockquote blockquote I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware /blockquote blockquote equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, /blockquote blockquote poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal /blockquote blockquote action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I /blockquote blockquote run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote Hi Mike /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. /blockquote blockquote Ekinops Packetlight. /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes /blockquote blockquote to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work /blockquote blockquote so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore /blockquote blockquote must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and /blockquote blockquote have a distance limitation. /blockquote blockquote What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? /blockquote blockquote - /blockquote blockquote Mike Hammett /blockquote blockquote Intelligent Computing Solutions /blockquote blockquote http://www.ics-il.com /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote -- /blockquote blockquote TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 /blockquote blockquote 656-257-1109* /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use /blockquote blockquote of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain /blockquote blockquote information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure /blockquote blockquote under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this /blockquote blockquote information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or /blockquote blockquote copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la /blockquote blockquote persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información /blockquote blockquote privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación /blockquote blockquote aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que /blockquote blockquote cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está /blockquote blockquote estrictamente prohibido. /blockquote /blockquote
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Low cost WDM gear
I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Yeah, you can get up to 80km on a passive unit using SFP+ and up to 120km using XFP. To cover the distance you are considering, you would need to insert an amplifier. Depending on the number of channels you require, a passive solution with an amplified would still be less expensive than an active solution. When I was conducting my research, I could not find an active solution under $25K. On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: Well, I'm not an expert in the world of long haul optics, but I think I'd want active over passive for the ability to use standard interfaces on the equipment (routers, switches, etc.) at either end. Then again, maybe something has changed that I don't know about. I would also think active would be better able to go those 185 mile distances than passive. I assume I'd need an amplifier in the middle to even make it that far. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:17:35 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Are you looking for an active or passive solution? On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: blockquote Mike, blockquote /blockquote blockquote I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware /blockquote blockquote equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, /blockquote blockquote poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal /blockquote blockquote action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I /blockquote blockquote run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote Hi Mike /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. /blockquote blockquote Ekinops Packetlight. /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes /blockquote blockquote to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work /blockquote blockquote so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore /blockquote blockquote must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and /blockquote blockquote have a distance limitation. /blockquote blockquote What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? /blockquote blockquote - /blockquote blockquote Mike Hammett /blockquote blockquote Intelligent Computing Solutions /blockquote blockquote http://www.ics-il.com /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote -- /blockquote blockquote TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 /blockquote blockquote 656-257-1109* /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use /blockquote blockquote of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain /blockquote blockquote information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure /blockquote blockquote under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this /blockquote blockquote information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or /blockquote blockquote copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la /blockquote blockquote persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información /blockquote blockquote privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación /blockquote blockquote aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que /blockquote blockquote cualquier uso
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Phil On 2/7/15, 18:04, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Any tips on getting other people to use colored optics or is it not the issue that I'd expect it to be? This particular application would be to connect two datacenters together over dark fiber and transport customers across as needed. I could see it being a little difficult to get someone to buy special optics (even if you can source generic ones) for your route. I wouldn't have an issue, but then again, I'm fairly easygoing... and thrifty. Another scenario before me is within a datacenter when trying to save on cross connect charges. Spending a few thousand bucks once sure beats $300/month forever. I'm working with several other ISPs, some of which don't want another entity to be between them and their upstream. [Cut rambling short.] I guess the short of it is, active solutions are expensive, so do that or don't. ;-) I did get an AlcaLu quote under $25k once, but it wasn't far under. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:12:01 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Yeah, you can get up to 80km on a passive unit using SFP+ and up to 120km using XFP. To cover the distance you are considering, you would need to insert an amplifier. Depending on the number of channels you require, a passive solution with an amplified would still be less expensive than an active solution. When I was conducting my research, I could not find an active solution under $25K. On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: Well, I'm not an expert in the world of long haul optics, but I think I'd want active over passive for the ability to use standard interfaces on the equipment (routers, switches, etc.) at either end. Then again, maybe something has changed that I don't know about. I would also think active would be better able to go those 185 mile distances than passive. I assume I'd need an amplifier in the middle to even make it that far. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:17:35 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Are you looking for an active or passive solution? On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: blockquote Mike, blockquote blockquote I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware /blockquote blockquote equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, /blockquote blockquote poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal /blockquote blockquote action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I /blockquote blockquote run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote Hi Mike /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. /blockquote blockquote Ekinops Packetlight. /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: /blockquote blockquote /blockquote blockquote I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes /blockquote blockquote to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work /blockquote blockquote so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore /blockquote blockquote must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and /blockquote blockquote have a distance limitation. /blockquote blockquote What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? /blockquote blockquote - /blockquote blockquote Mike Hammett /blockquote blockquote Intelligent Computing Solutions /blockquote blockquote http://www.ics-il.com /blockquote blockquote
Re: Low cost WDM gear
On 7/Feb/15 21:17, Phil Bedard wrote: Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Agree - US$500 (or thereabout) to cover 300km at a reasonable speed with some reliability and manageability is a stretch (no pun intended). Mark.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Multiple 10G, yes. I'll reach out to the vendors mentioned to see how they line up, but it looks like I need to look into amps for the passive gear. There's 8 huts between the two ends, so no shortage of opportunities to amplify the signal. I'll know more about that when I get the amount of loss along the route. Most people I know leasing circuits are doing so because dark isn't available or is otherwise ass expensive due to above shortage. The last quote I got for dark out of a useful facility was like $2M. 100+ miles was like $200k, the last 10 miles or whatever was the balance. Even $100k for gear (two sides and some amps) pales in comparison to $2k+ a month for the next 20 years for a single channel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Phil Bedard bedard.p...@gmail.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:17:48 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Phil On 2/7/15, 18:04, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Oh, I had no fantasies that the $500 Chinese muxes would do the distance. Actually quite the opposite in that I knew they couldn't, so looking for alternative solutions that didn't break the bank. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mark Tinka mark.ti...@seacom.mu To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:26:28 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear On 7/Feb/15 21:17, Phil Bedard wrote: Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Agree - US$500 (or thereabout) to cover 300km at a reasonable speed with some reliability and manageability is a stretch (no pun intended). Mark.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Sure, everyone has different needs and there are certainly lots of use cases for having your own fiber. You can look into passive muxes and amps, if you have enough places to amplify along the way shouldn't be a big deal. Companies like PacketLight (also mentioned) make 1RU amplifiers. Phil On 2/7/15, 19:32, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: Multiple 10G, yes. I'll reach out to the vendors mentioned to see how they line up, but it looks like I need to look into amps for the passive gear. There's 8 huts between the two ends, so no shortage of opportunities to amplify the signal. I'll know more about that when I get the amount of loss along the route. Most people I know leasing circuits are doing so because dark isn't available or is otherwise ass expensive due to above shortage. The last quote I got for dark out of a useful facility was like $2M. 100+ miles was like $200k, the last 10 miles or whatever was the balance. Even $100k for gear (two sides and some amps) pales in comparison to $2k+ a month for the next 20 years for a single channel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Phil Bedard bedard.p...@gmail.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:17:48 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Phil On 2/7/15, 18:04, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Kenneth, I am sorry, but it sounds like you made a mistake in not calculating loss of the devices in the path, and are blaming a Mfg for the mistake... They clearly list the insertion loss for the different muxes in the specs on their website. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:04:10 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Mike, Lighting up dark fiber is very similar to doing fixed wireless links (which you are familiar with). There are different components involved in making a solutions work for each of the problems you have stated there is solution, and yes you have to calculate the loss and match power / optics to make it work. FYI.. all CWDM/DWDM Muxes are passive ... :) Active components (can be external or integrated). If you want to do a direct run, from DC to DC using the Dark Fiber, you will need to have signal regeneration (or you may be able to get away with amps). It is commonly expected for the transport provider to hand off the live circuit using standard SFP/SFP+, which means that they have to use a 'media converter' of some sorts to covert from Colorized Light to Standard 1330 or 880nm hand off. If you want more info, hit me off list. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net To: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:32:14 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Multiple 10G, yes. I'll reach out to the vendors mentioned to see how they line up, but it looks like I need to look into amps for the passive gear. There's 8 huts between the two ends, so no shortage of opportunities to amplify the signal. I'll know more about that when I get the amount of loss along the route. Most people I know leasing circuits are doing so because dark isn't available or is otherwise ass expensive due to above shortage. The last quote I got for dark out of a useful facility was like $2M. 100+ miles was like $200k, the last 10 miles or whatever was the balance. Even $100k for gear (two sides and some amps) pales in comparison to $2k+ a month for the next 20 years for a single channel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Phil Bedard bedard.p...@gmail.com To: Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:17:48 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Is this for 10G? I'm kind of assuming 10G. What kind of equipment is being plugged into these? 300km is way beyond what you'll get with a passive solution, it's definitely in the long-haul terrtory. If you are launching out of a router the best pluggable optic you can generally get is rated at 80km, 10GBase-ZR, but even a passive mux at each end shaves some of that distance off. 300km is going to require amplifiers at intervals across the span. Who is providing the fiber? I'd start talking to traditional transport vendors. Ekinops as mentioned is probably decent at a lower price, Adva works well and isn't all that expensive, even Cisco has gear reasonably priced. If you want to cover 300km on a fiber span though cheap isn't really a word I would describe. It's why people lease circuits. :) Phil On 2/7/15, 18:04, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use
Re: Low cost WDM gear
If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Low cost WDM gear
Faisal, I worked directly with FiberStore's engineers to determine the optics and mux needed for my use case. They recommended the mux and the optics for the 3km distance. You can always buy stronger optics, but that is not point I am making. I provided the scale and scope of the project and they provided the BOM to deliver the required service. When the equipment failed, FiberStore refused to honor their return policy and issue an RMA until we threatened legal action. Same sales scenario with OSI Hardware.. They provide the BOM with passive muxes and 10km optics and it works with no problem. In this scenario, I can definitely blame the manufacturer. No to mention the terrible technical support that they offer. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: Kenneth, I am sorry, but it sounds like you made a mistake in not calculating loss of the devices in the path, and are blaming a Mfg for the mistake... They clearly list the insertion loss for the different muxes in the specs on their website. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:04:10 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
I'm surprised how many people (operators and vendors) in the fixed wireless space don't get down to the specs (or provide the proper info) to just figure out how it'll work before hanging the gear. I shouldn't be surprised, though. People are lazy (myself included). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net To: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:44:19 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación
Re: Low cost WDM gear
That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.
Re: Low cost WDM gear
More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes
Re: Low cost WDM gear
That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. Just for comparison sake, I should say that we've bought passive DWDM muxes and SFP+'s from FibreStore, and we've had good experiences. At the lower end of the market, production quality can definitely vary, which means significant variances in optical losses. When we ordered from FibreStore, we specified the Optical Loss values that we were able to accept. They tested the muxes before shipping, and selected the ones which fitted our requirements. Out of all the SFP's we bought, there were one or two DoA. FibreStore replaced this without issue. I think the important thing to remember (particularly when buying cheap) is that you need to know what you're buying, and what the risks are. With this in mind, it's possible to save money and get a decent product with some careful specification and management of the purchasing process. If you're not too sure what you're after, then I'd suggest spending more money and buying from a supplier who's more set up to hand-hold you through the process. Simon
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Yes can do long distances without need to amplifier site (train tracks for example) but you need to make sure ground is stable and if using track bed of train track that the ballast is good and stable else ground tremors affect the signal quality. Colin On 7 Feb 2015, at 22:32, Tim Durack tdur...@gmail.com wrote: You can do ~500km without inline amplifier sites using EDFA+Raman+ROPA, but you are going to need some serious optical engineering to make that work. The more standard way to do it is amplifier sites every 80-100km for EDFA. If you are doing 10GigE you will need to allow for DCM also. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido. -- Tim:
Re: Low cost WDM gear
That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework
Re: Low cost WDM gear
All the more reason to bring in engineering with accurate data when engaging with customers. I kinda figured that FiberStore was a broker when I was told that all technical support issues had to be directed through the sale rep. On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:26 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: BTW, I hope you realize that FiberStore is not a mfg. but a Seller/broker. they have to rely on the specs provided to them from the MFG. In the Far East, mfg, distribution, sales is organized is a slightly different manner than the West. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you
Re: Low cost WDM gear
My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw
Re: Low cost WDM gear
I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-) Thanks for the feedback.. On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have
RE: Low cost WDM gear
Mike, Look into SolidOptics. www.Solidoptics.com Great Mux and Add-drops, plus fantastic optics. We are not optical engineers so when we have had questions about new links their team has always been open about what will and what won't work based on what we are trying to accomplish. We are only using their CWDM passive mux and various optics, been extremely happy on price and performance. No issues. Sincerely, Nick Ellermann – CTO VP Cloud Services BroadAspect E: nellerm...@broadaspect.com P: 703-297-4639 F: 703-996-4443 THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 12:42 PM To: NANOG Subject: Low cost WDM gear I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Agreed, and to add one more little point.. Now they have DWDM CWDM Muxes which have an even lower insertion loss .. (new products, currently not listed on the website). Like they say This is not your Father's Oldsmobile... Nothing hardly stands stills or remains the same in this business... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Simon Lockhart si...@slimey.org To: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:06:46 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. Just for comparison sake, I should say that we've bought passive DWDM muxes and SFP+'s from FibreStore, and we've had good experiences. At the lower end of the market, production quality can definitely vary, which means significant variances in optical losses. When we ordered from FibreStore, we specified the Optical Loss values that we were able to accept. They tested the muxes before shipping, and selected the ones which fitted our requirements. Out of all the SFP's we bought, there were one or two DoA. FibreStore replaced this without issue. I think the important thing to remember (particularly when buying cheap) is that you need to know what you're buying, and what the risks are. With this in mind, it's possible to save money and get a decent product with some careful specification and management of the purchasing process. If you're not too sure what you're after, then I'd suggest spending more money and buying from a supplier who's more set up to hand-hold you through the process. Simon
Re: Low cost WDM gear
You can do ~500km without inline amplifier sites using EDFA+Raman+ROPA, but you are going to need some serious optical engineering to make that work. The more standard way to do it is amplifier sites every 80-100km for EDFA. If you are doing 10GigE you will need to allow for DCM also. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: One particular route I'm looking at is 185 miles, so of the options presented 300 km is closest. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 12:02:11 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear would be good for mike to define 'long distances' here, is it: 2km 30km 300km 3000km Probably the 30-60k range is what you mean by 'long distances' but... clarity might help. On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com wrote: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín m...@transtelco.net wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett na...@ics-il.net wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido. -- Tim:
Re: Low cost WDM gear
Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company. Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-) On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: My point is.. ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me and people can make mistakes... Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our
Re: Low cost WDM gear
BTW, I hope you realize that FiberStore is not a mfg. but a Seller/broker. they have to rely on the specs provided to them from the MFG. In the Far East, mfg, distribution, sales is organized is a slightly different manner than the West. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect. That is pretty basic. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: More power to you I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... Compared FiberStore to another Vendor... It was pointed out to me long time ago when someone said.. My Chevy is better than a Ford Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ? Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved... One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com To: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net Cc: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br, NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs. If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Rodrigo 1telecom rodr...@1telecom.com.br To: Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex solution... Is a active solution... We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux... Enviado via iPhone Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae kenneth.mc...@me.com escreveu: Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover 60km. I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power
