Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
On 3/11/21 2:28 PM, Jared Brown wrote: Out of interest, why does it take multiple weeks to edit a GEO IP entry? I have no idea /why/. I only know that it /is/. I /assume/ -- from a place of ignorance about the innards of the process -- that there is validation and manual approval. I also /assume/ that there are enough requests that there can be a backlog, hence why there is variance. There may also be something as silly as the process that amalgamates things is run every other week. I simply do not know /why/ I only know that it is. I wonder why Google even has this problem at all. If you've so much as looked at Google maps or used any app that uses location services then Google knows with a high certainty where you are. I think that there is more to it than meats the eye. Especially when you consider how to deal with things like the 2nd hand IP market and ISPs from neighboring countries that aren't exactly friendly with each other. This is a problem Google actually *can* automate away. I assume -- from a place of ignorance -- that you are correct in that there is room for process improvement. I do trust that colleagues are adhering to and executing the process to the best of their ability. -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
Grant Taylor wrote: > The process takes multiple weeks. Out of interest, why does it take multiple weeks to edit a GEO IP entry? I wonder why Google even has this problem at all. If you've so much as looked at Google maps or used any app that uses location services then Google knows with a high certainty where you are. This is a problem Google actually *can* automate away. Jared
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
On 3/11/21 1:05 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: His email: Mar 8, 2021, 10:08 AM (3 days ago) The current date and time: 3:03 PM Thursday, March 11, 2021 (EST) The process takes multiple weeks. You do the math. My email with recommendations: 10:23 AM Thursday, March 11, 2021 (MST) The current date and time: 13:47Thursday, March 11, 2021 (MST) Again, the process takes multiple weeks. You do the math again. Well since I don't get any spam in my mailbox, I'd say it is fixed. Good for you. I suspect that there are *MANY* who would disagree with you. Not sure this thread is going anywhere besides downhill so unless there's anything productive to contribute on the topic at hand, resolving Google's geoip, I'm out. As previously stated: - Contact GGC operations - Contact Google NOC Both teams can escalate the issue to the GeoIP team to fix the problem. Let me try spelling it out this way. I have worked on the GGC operations team and we always take any GeoIP issues very seriously and we /want/ /to/ /fix/ them. So, does 1st hand knowledge from someone who has fixed multiple GeoIP issues count for anything in regards to your opinion? I can tell you for a fact that colleagues /do/ /care/ and /do/ /want/ /to/ /fix/ /things/. So, if you have a GGC node, contact the GGC operations team with GeoIP issues. They will do what they can to fix the problem. It does usually take multiple weeks to get something fixed. But I have seen multiple corrections completed through the process that starts with the GGC operations team. I can say, 1st hand, as someone that has processed multiple GeoIP corrections, that Google employees /do/ /wanna/ /improve/ GeoIP information. I can also say that the vast majority of Google employees do want to improve anything and everything they can. -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
On 3/11/21 12:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
The lack of response to the problem from Google's team is the
knowledge that we're working with.
It may be the knowledge that /you/ are working with. /I/ am working
with different knowledge.
As stated in another reply, "I know / have witnessed multiple Google
employees that have submitted and followed up on multiple GeoIP
corrections." So /I'm/ working with /1st/ /hand/ knowledge that Google
employees /do/ /wanna/ /improve/.
What more do you need to know?
For starters, any dissenting opinions or knowledge would be good to
know. Seeing as I have both 1st hand knowledge and dissenting opinions
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck,
it's probably a duck.
If it sounds like a herd of stampeding horses, moves like a herd of
stampeding horses, and looks like a herd of stampeding horses, it's
probably a herd of stampeding horses /except/ when it's a herd of
stampeding zebras.
You don't need a DNA test.
Hopefully you don't /need/ a DNA test to identify the difference between
a horse and a zebra. But hopefully you realize that your initial
assumption that it was a heard of stampeding horses was wrong, and
likely biased towards horses / away from zebras.
You're entitled to your opinion just as the rest of us are entitled to
ours. It doesn't make it wrong.
Opinions are only facts (in and of themselves) to the person that holds
them. {Your,my} opinion is fact to {you,me} but just {your,my} opinion
to everyone else.
Also, opinions often to take everything into account.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
>How do you know that the OP's problem hasn't been resolved? I asked him. He said "no". Do we have to debate the opinion of fixed or what no means? >Presuming the OP did leverage the suggestions that I provided, how can you say "no resolution" when it's been ~2 hours for a process that I indicated takes order of weeks? His email: Mar 8, 2021, 10:08 AM (3 days ago) The current date and time: 3:03 PM Thursday, March 11, 2021 (EST) You do the math. >> once again is a testament to how Google responds to this problem. >Based on your logic, the entire email industry must actually want spam because all efforts to the contrary have failed to stop it. Well since I don't get any spam in my mailbox, I'd say it is fixed. Not sure this thread is going anywhere besides downhill so unless there's anything productive to contribute on the topic at hand, resolving Google's geoip, I'm out. Josh Luthman 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:58 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote: > On 3/11/21 12:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > > Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no > > charge, I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. > > Difficult of doing something is not directly related to people's > willingness / desire to do it. > > I can guarantee you that there are Google employees who do want to have > GeoIP (and other) information as correct as possible. Said employees > are grateful for such corrections. Said employees try to process such > corrections as expediently and efficiently as possible. > > I can make this guarantee because I know / have witnessed multiple > Google employees that have submitted and followed up on multiple GeoIP > corrections. > > I'm certain that there are still errors in Google's GeoIP data. But I'm > equally certain that multiple Google employees /do/ /wanna/ /improve/ > /it/ (the GeoIP data). > > > The fact that this thread exists, the latest of multiple, and has ended > > in no resolution to the problem > > How do you know that the OP's problem hasn't been resolved? > > How do you know that the OP hasn't leveraged either of the suggestions > that I provided? > > Presuming the OP did leverage the suggestions that I provided, how can > you say "no resolution" when it's been ~2 hours for a process that I > indicated takes order of weeks? > > > once again is a testament to how Google responds to this problem. > > Based on your logic, the entire email industry must actually want spam > because all efforts to the contrary have failed to stop it. > > No, the email industry does not /want/ spam. > Yes Google has problems. > No, Google's problems do not accurately reflect the desires of the > employees. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > >
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
I think the distinction needs to be made between some number of {company}
employees and the effectiveness of the organization.
One, two, ten, or fifty dedicated employees working on the problem doesn't make
up for management that doesn't allocate appropriate resources to solve the
problem. Those resources could be number of bodies, developers to create
systems to make the process easier, etc.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "William Guo"
To: "Nate Burke"
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 3:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
Google has its internal GeoIP team.
But the data quality is not so good, but they don't wanna improve it for some
reason.
On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:00 AM Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote:
If you find out, let me know the secret sauce. I've had a ticket open
with YoutubeTV for 7 months and they can't get the GeoIP fixed for one
of my /21's that I've had for 20 years. Every reply on my ticket from
Google is that the YoutubeTV service has major GeoIP issues, and they
don't know how to fix them. It's been escalated to engineering for the
last 7 months with no ETA on a fix. That is the only service for me
that is having a location problem.
On 3/7/2021 7:19 PM, t...@nwohiobb.com wrote:
> Can anybody tell me how to fix my IP block for google websites and
> youtube/tv because I am getting customers saying they are out of the
> country and I tried to apply for the google isp portal and I have not
> gotten anything back on this.
>
> Thanks Tim
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
The lack of response to the problem from Google's team is the knowledge that we're working with. What more do you need to know? If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck. You don't need a DNA test. You're entitled to your opinion just as the rest of us are entitled to ours. It doesn't make it wrong. Josh Luthman 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:40 PM Tom Beecher wrote: > Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, >> I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. >> > > No, it's still wrong. > > Stating that Google's team 'doesn't want to improve things' , while also > having zero knowledge of the reasons why the current issues are present, is > at best uninformed , and at worst just plain ignorant. > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:29 PM Josh Luthman > wrote: > >> Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, >> I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. >> >> The fact that this thread exists, the latest of multiple, and has ended >> in no resolution to the problem once again is a testament to how Google >> responds to this problem. >> >> Josh Luthman >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG >> wrote: >> >>> On 3/11/21 2:36 AM, William Guo wrote: >>> > but they don't wanna improve it for some reason. >>> >>> That is both unfair and wrong. >>> >>> I know for a fact that they do want their internal GeoIP to be as >>> accurate as possible and that they do want to improve the inaccuracies >>> if and when possible. >>> >>> I have personally submitted a handful of GeoIP changes through channels. >>> It does take a wile O(weeks) to complete. But it /does/ complete. >>> >>> If you have a GGC node, you can reach out to the GGC operations team for >>> help resolving GeoIP issues. Ostensibly the GGC operations team focuses >>> on GGC related issues. But they should be able to document the issue >>> and send it to proper internal teams anyway. >>> >>> I would assume that Google's NOC can also re-route issues as necessary. >>> >>> I believe that saying "they don't wanna improve" as a fact, vs an >>> opinion, is disingenuous and somewhat rude. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Grant. . . . >>> unix || die >>> >>>
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
On 3/11/21 12:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. Difficult of doing something is not directly related to people's willingness / desire to do it. I can guarantee you that there are Google employees who do want to have GeoIP (and other) information as correct as possible. Said employees are grateful for such corrections. Said employees try to process such corrections as expediently and efficiently as possible. I can make this guarantee because I know / have witnessed multiple Google employees that have submitted and followed up on multiple GeoIP corrections. I'm certain that there are still errors in Google's GeoIP data. But I'm equally certain that multiple Google employees /do/ /wanna/ /improve/ /it/ (the GeoIP data). The fact that this thread exists, the latest of multiple, and has ended in no resolution to the problem How do you know that the OP's problem hasn't been resolved? How do you know that the OP hasn't leveraged either of the suggestions that I provided? Presuming the OP did leverage the suggestions that I provided, how can you say "no resolution" when it's been ~2 hours for a process that I indicated takes order of weeks? once again is a testament to how Google responds to this problem. Based on your logic, the entire email industry must actually want spam because all efforts to the contrary have failed to stop it. No, the email industry does not /want/ spam. Yes Google has problems. No, Google's problems do not accurately reflect the desires of the employees. -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
> > Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, > I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. > No, it's still wrong. Stating that Google's team 'doesn't want to improve things' , while also having zero knowledge of the reasons why the current issues are present, is at best uninformed , and at worst just plain ignorant. On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:29 PM Josh Luthman wrote: > Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, > I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. > > The fact that this thread exists, the latest of multiple, and has ended in > no resolution to the problem once again is a testament to how Google > responds to this problem. > > Josh Luthman > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG > wrote: > >> On 3/11/21 2:36 AM, William Guo wrote: >> > but they don't wanna improve it for some reason. >> >> That is both unfair and wrong. >> >> I know for a fact that they do want their internal GeoIP to be as >> accurate as possible and that they do want to improve the inaccuracies >> if and when possible. >> >> I have personally submitted a handful of GeoIP changes through channels. >> It does take a wile O(weeks) to complete. But it /does/ complete. >> >> If you have a GGC node, you can reach out to the GGC operations team for >> help resolving GeoIP issues. Ostensibly the GGC operations team focuses >> on GGC related issues. But they should be able to document the issue >> and send it to proper internal teams anyway. >> >> I would assume that Google's NOC can also re-route issues as necessary. >> >> I believe that saying "they don't wanna improve" as a fact, vs an >> opinion, is disingenuous and somewhat rude. >> >> >> >> -- >> Grant. . . . >> unix || die >> >>
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
Based on how difficult it is to correct their data for them at no charge, I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in that statement. The fact that this thread exists, the latest of multiple, and has ended in no resolution to the problem once again is a testament to how Google responds to this problem. Josh Luthman 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote: > On 3/11/21 2:36 AM, William Guo wrote: > > but they don't wanna improve it for some reason. > > That is both unfair and wrong. > > I know for a fact that they do want their internal GeoIP to be as > accurate as possible and that they do want to improve the inaccuracies > if and when possible. > > I have personally submitted a handful of GeoIP changes through channels. > It does take a wile O(weeks) to complete. But it /does/ complete. > > If you have a GGC node, you can reach out to the GGC operations team for > help resolving GeoIP issues. Ostensibly the GGC operations team focuses > on GGC related issues. But they should be able to document the issue > and send it to proper internal teams anyway. > > I would assume that Google's NOC can also re-route issues as necessary. > > I believe that saying "they don't wanna improve" as a fact, vs an > opinion, is disingenuous and somewhat rude. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > >
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
On 3/11/21 2:36 AM, William Guo wrote: but they don't wanna improve it for some reason. That is both unfair and wrong. I know for a fact that they do want their internal GeoIP to be as accurate as possible and that they do want to improve the inaccuracies if and when possible. I have personally submitted a handful of GeoIP changes through channels. It does take a wile O(weeks) to complete. But it /does/ complete. If you have a GGC node, you can reach out to the GGC operations team for help resolving GeoIP issues. Ostensibly the GGC operations team focuses on GGC related issues. But they should be able to document the issue and send it to proper internal teams anyway. I would assume that Google's NOC can also re-route issues as necessary. I believe that saying "they don't wanna improve" as a fact, vs an opinion, is disingenuous and somewhat rude. -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
Google honour https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8805 Which they also authored. A bunch of people are proposing a geofeed: RPSL marker to catalog how to find the feed. -G On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 7:38 PM William Guo wrote: > > Google has its internal GeoIP team. > > But the data quality is not so good, but they don't wanna improve it for some > reason. > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:00 AM Nate Burke wrote: >> >> If you find out, let me know the secret sauce. I've had a ticket open >> with YoutubeTV for 7 months and they can't get the GeoIP fixed for one >> of my /21's that I've had for 20 years. Every reply on my ticket from >> Google is that the YoutubeTV service has major GeoIP issues, and they >> don't know how to fix them. It's been escalated to engineering for the >> last 7 months with no ETA on a fix. That is the only service for me >> that is having a location problem. >> >> >> On 3/7/2021 7:19 PM, t...@nwohiobb.com wrote: >> > Can anybody tell me how to fix my IP block for google websites and >> > youtube/tv because I am getting customers saying they are out of the >> > country and I tried to apply for the google isp portal and I have not >> > gotten anything back on this. >> > >> > Thanks Tim >>
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
Google has its internal GeoIP team. But the data quality is not so good, but they don't wanna improve it for some reason. On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:00 AM Nate Burke wrote: > If you find out, let me know the secret sauce. I've had a ticket open > with YoutubeTV for 7 months and they can't get the GeoIP fixed for one > of my /21's that I've had for 20 years. Every reply on my ticket from > Google is that the YoutubeTV service has major GeoIP issues, and they > don't know how to fix them. It's been escalated to engineering for the > last 7 months with no ETA on a fix. That is the only service for me > that is having a location problem. > > > On 3/7/2021 7:19 PM, t...@nwohiobb.com wrote: > > Can anybody tell me how to fix my IP block for google websites and > > youtube/tv because I am getting customers saying they are out of the > > country and I tried to apply for the google isp portal and I have not > > gotten anything back on this. > > > > Thanks Tim > >
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
If you find out, let me know the secret sauce. I've had a ticket open with YoutubeTV for 7 months and they can't get the GeoIP fixed for one of my /21's that I've had for 20 years. Every reply on my ticket from Google is that the YoutubeTV service has major GeoIP issues, and they don't know how to fix them. It's been escalated to engineering for the last 7 months with no ETA on a fix. That is the only service for me that is having a location problem. On 3/7/2021 7:19 PM, t...@nwohiobb.com wrote: Can anybody tell me how to fix my IP block for google websites and youtube/tv because I am getting customers saying they are out of the country and I tried to apply for the google isp portal and I have not gotten anything back on this. Thanks Tim
Re: How to Fix IP GEO for google/youtube tv
https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/ Josh Luthman 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:08 AM wrote: > Can anybody tell me how to fix my IP block for google websites and > youtube/tv because I am getting customers saying they are out of the > country and I tried to apply for the google isp portal and I have not > gotten anything back on this. > > Thanks Tim >
