[neonixie-l] re warantee on unproven products

[Kevin A.]

I would be dubious about the 15 year warranty, but we'll see how responsive he 
is as far as customer support. I'd like to be optimistic and think that most 
people who are into nixies are because they like nixie tubes and not because 
they are out to scam people in a boutique market. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MPSA42 troubles

[gregebert]

This is where a curve-tracer really comes in-handy. Sadly, even old used 
ones are a bit expensive compared to scopes from the same era.
I've been tempted many times over the years to design my own, but like most 
projects I dream-up I never get time to build them.

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[neonixie-l] re warantee on unproven products

[alb.001 alb.001]

 
  I have a set of a ratchet driver and sockets that were sold by the largest department store in Canada - Eaton's  which offered a lifetime warrantee on this product.  I still use it but store is long gone - just like Sears    there is no warrantee service available any more.  Giving a 15 year guarantee on an untested product is just smoke and of no value. What if the seller changes their company name and they no longer exit ?  They might still use the same address and contact information but they no longer "exist"   I have this very issue with the company that built my house  - they changed their name and when I called about poor quality they answered the phone but said they were now a "different company" and did not do warrantee service under their first name, and then they blocked me from calling them any more.
  
   -- Original Message --
   From: gregebert 
   Date: February 9, 2019 at 12:40 PM
   
   
   
Considering only 3 USD has been pledged so far, they have a long way to go and there isn't a lot of confidence from investors.

 


 They should have several batches of tubes running thru burn-in, and I did not see that in the video; I dont know how they can backup a 15 year warranty if tube lifetime is unknown.


 I would be running several tubes at elevated current & temperature.

   
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MPSA42 troubles

[Thomas Kummer]

When I plug it into a multimeter’s hFE slot for E-B-C I get a reading of 140 
hFE, when I plug it into the B-C-E slot I get a quick 1600 hFE, and then just a 
1 in the far left digit of the screen almost like a processing/measuring 
reading, like what the multimeter does when you measure V and you first put it 
on the V source. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2019, at 13:10, GastonP  wrote:
> 
> Did you verify that you verified that the layout is E-B-C? Or is it B-C-E?
> 
>> On Friday, February 8, 2019 at 9:35:14 PM UTC-3, Thomas Kummer wrote:
>> My understanding is that a MPSA42 is an NPN transistor and the MPSA92 is a 
>> PNP. My understanding of how an NPN transistor works is that when the base 
>> “P” is turned on the circuit from collector to emitter is shorted. When the 
>> base is off the circuit is open. I’m trying to use the decimal point on a 
>> Nixie tube rather than an LED for the alarm. So, I have the collector hooked 
>> to the tube the emitter hooked to the ground, and the base hooked to 5V 
>> signal, I also have a 10K resistor between base and 5V. However, no matter 
>> what the decimal point stays lit!! Even when the signal is off. The only 
>> time it isn’t lit is if the base is open, if I even touch the base the 
>> decimal point lights up!! The transistor has the the imprint A42 B331. It 
>> appears to be a knock off and that could be where my problems are coming 
>> from. I’ve tried looking for a datasheet, but to no avail. Any help would be 
>> appreciated.
> 
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Re: [neonixie-l]

[Kevin A.]

I just pledged for 1 tube.

Interested to see where this goes, and if he delivers or not.

When/if I get it I'll be sure to share the details with everyone!

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 2:10 PM Alic  Dalibor’s tube is the cheapest in that digit size category.
> Millclock’s tube is expensive compared to todays price of the IN-18 but I
> think that back when it was made the price was higher than that and the
> IN-18 was produced in huge quantities.
>
> Also, the Millclcok nixie has electronics in the base if I have read the
> campaign correctly.
>
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Re: [neonixie-l]

[Alic]

Dalibor’s tube is the cheapest in that digit size category.
Millclock’s tube is expensive compared to todays price of the IN-18 but I think 
that back when it was made the price was higher than that and the IN-18 was 
produced in huge quantities.

Also, the Millclcok nixie has electronics in the base if I have read the 
campaign correctly.

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[neonixie-l] Re:

[Paul Andrews]

Yesterday there was around $390 pledged. I wasn't aware that an investor 
could back out? If Millclock decide not to go ahead with this particular 
tube, I hope they *do* go ahead with something.

On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 12:40:29 PM UTC-5, gregebert wrote:
>
> Considering only 3 USD has been pledged so far, they have a long way to go 
> and there isn't a lot of confidence from investors.
>
> They should have several batches of tubes running thru burn-in, and I did 
> not see that in the video; I dont know how they can backup a 15 year 
> warranty if tube lifetime is unknown.
> I would be running several tubes at elevated current & temperature.
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MPSA42 troubles

[David Forbes]

That's a good point. I was a bit surprised that the transistor said "A42"
and not "MPSA42", as it should. Perhaps it's a 2SA42!

The MPS series was started by Motorola, which is no longer in the component
business.


On Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 11:10 AM GastonP  Did you verify that you verified that the layout is E-B-C? Or is it B-C-E?
>
> On Friday, February 8, 2019 at 9:35:14 PM UTC-3, Thomas Kummer wrote:
>>
>> My understanding is that a MPSA42 is an NPN transistor and the MPSA92 is
>> a PNP. My understanding of how an NPN transistor works is that when the
>> base “P” is turned on the circuit from collector to emitter is shorted.
>> When the base is off the circuit is open. I’m trying to use the decimal
>> point on a Nixie tube rather than an LED for the alarm. So, I have the
>> collector hooked to the tube the emitter hooked to the ground, and the base
>> hooked to 5V signal, I also have a 10K resistor between base and 5V.
>> However, no matter what the decimal point stays lit!! Even when the signal
>> is off. The only time it isn’t lit is if the base is open, if I even touch
>> the base the decimal point lights up!! The transistor has the the imprint
>> A42 B331. It appears to be a knock off and that could be where my problems
>> are coming from. I’ve tried looking for a datasheet, but to no avail. Any
>> help would be appreciated.
>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Grain-of-wheat light-pipe displays

[blkadder]

  Mike,
  I love the look of this clock.  Where did you find a case like this?
 
  Ron

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[neonixie-l] Re: MPSA42 troubles

[GastonP]

Did you verify that you verified that the layout is E-B-C? Or is it B-C-E?

On Friday, February 8, 2019 at 9:35:14 PM UTC-3, Thomas Kummer wrote:
>
> My understanding is that a MPSA42 is an NPN transistor and the MPSA92 is a 
> PNP. My understanding of how an NPN transistor works is that when the base 
> “P” is turned on the circuit from collector to emitter is shorted. When the 
> base is off the circuit is open. I’m trying to use the decimal point on a 
> Nixie tube rather than an LED for the alarm. So, I have the collector 
> hooked to the tube the emitter hooked to the ground, and the base hooked to 
> 5V signal, I also have a 10K resistor between base and 5V. However, no 
> matter what the decimal point stays lit!! Even when the signal is off. The 
> only time it isn’t lit is if the base is open, if I even touch the base the 
> decimal point lights up!! The transistor has the the imprint A42 B331. It 
> appears to be a knock off and that could be where my problems are coming 
> from. I’ve tried looking for a datasheet, but to no avail. Any help would 
> be appreciated. 

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[neonixie-l] Re:

[gregebert]

Considering only 3 USD has been pledged so far, they have a long way to go 
and there isn't a lot of confidence from investors.

They should have several batches of tubes running thru burn-in, and I did 
not see that in the video; I dont know how they can backup a 15 year 
warranty if tube lifetime is unknown.
I would be running several tubes at elevated current & temperature.

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Re: [neonixie-l] MPSA42 troubles

[David Forbes]

Sounds like you have some transistor-shaped objects. I only buy parts from
Digikey and Mouser, and the occasional Adafruit purchase.

This is why.


On Fri, Feb 8, 2019, 10:00 PM Thomas Kummer  No, but I just did, and it dropped 4.7V
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 8, 2019, at 23:12, David Forbes  wrote:
>
> An NPN transistor has about a 0.5V diode drop from base to emitter when
> turned on with a few milliamps of base current. Do you measure this?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019, 7:08 PM Thomas Kummer 
>> I tried a 10K and I tried a 2.2K, and a 1K, and then would ground the
>> base, and still the decimal point lit up!! I took the resistor off the base
>> and touched it with my finger, and the DP lit up!!! I’m 100% convinced that
>> these are just cheap knockoff Chinese counterfeits as I tried through about
>> 3 more transistors, and same thing happened, from now on I’m strictly
>> sticking with Digi-Key for my components, no more eBay gambles I’ll just
>> shell out the extra ~$10-$20.
>>
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[neonixie-l] Re:

[Jon]

PS... Perhaps a mod could give this thread a meaningful title?

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Re: [neonixie-l] ZIN18

[Paul Andrews]

I agree with Jeff about the size of the base, and it does seem odd that they 
are priced at more than the IN-18. Do Millclok know something we don’t?

However, it is still good to see new tubes being made.

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[neonixie-l] Re:

[Jon]

Impressed with the technical achievement, and great to see the 
manufacturing video. We should salute these guys just as we do Dalibor.

I actually think the price point of $100 for any new manufactured nixie is 
very fair taking into account the labour involved in producing each tube 
and the equipment investment/R required to get to the point of being able 
to make and sell the first tube. The question in my mind on this one is 
more about *what* that new nixie is for the money, and how it fits with the 
competition - not sure it's smart to pretty much go head to head with NOS 
IN-18 which are readily available at half the price with a well established 
performance / reliability profile. Doesn't seem the most impactful use of 
all of the admirable expertise and capability. This is where Dalibor has 
got it absolutely right - there simply aren't very many Z5680 around at any 
price to effectively compete with him.

If I were these guys, I'd turn the attention to producing a more 
differentiated tube - maybe a 60mm digit height. Assuming of course that 
there isn't a fundamental availability / price problem with the raw 
materials for that.

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] ZIN18

[Dan Hollis]

Yep, these IN-18 are way too expenive, especially since they are still 
widely available.


For only a couple hundred more you can get giant dalibor 568 tubes.

-Dan

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019, Jeff Walton wrote:


Interesting to look at the Millclock videos.?? Very strikingly similar to 
Dalibor's process and techniques.There may be room for an IN-18 type tube 
to come to market but the pin configuration is very different and the base is 
excessively tall.Dalibor matched the Z568 pinout so that existing designs 
could use either.?? His price is more in line with what a Z568 should sell 
for.?? The ZIN18 is almost twice the going rate for an IN-18.It's taken 
Dalibor about 5 years to master the QC issues and he is very transparent about 
the obstacles that he has overcome.?? I wonder how the Millclock startup will 
deal with the same physics.Having said that, I hope that we can see new 
nixie production at a good price point.??Jeff??
 Original message From: jb-electronics  Date: 2/8/19  10:52 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] I honestly think that the pricing on Dalibor's Nixie tubes is more than fair. Six hours of manual labour per tube, on average. JensOn 
2019-02-08 9:50 p.m., Thomas Kummer wrote:> It???d be nice to see some healthy competition on new nixies. While Dalibors are nice the price tag is what has 
kept me from buying them.>> Sent from my iPhone>>> On Feb 8, 2019, at 22:36, Nicholas Stock  wrote: 
ZIN18 - the new Nixie Tube & clocks https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1989465642/zin18-the-new-nixie-tube-and-clocks Saw 
this.hmm... Sent from my iPhone

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