[NetBehaviour] Stuff's been pissing me off

[Pall Thayer]

This one's called "Dark Dawn" but the true title is "Shit's Pissing me Off"

https://soundcloud.com/pall-thayer/dark-dawn
-- 
P Thayer, Artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Patrick Lichty]

I'm sorry I have not been more active. Zayed University has had me 
running hard as I try to build a VR lab and work on a new gallery 
progresses.


From what I gather from the conversation, there seems to be a bit of 
despair over the role of networked art in the cultural noosphere.  In 
some ways, i feel like an actor with the coming of cinema.  This is 
perhaps a bad metaphor, but there are a number of things that 
interrelate; the cultural scene, socioeconomic ecologies, technology, 
politics, etc.


The 90's for me were a time of collectivism, at least until the 
recognition of forms around 2000, when some money arrived, and 
individuals went off to follow the Randian Dream.  I believe there is a 
wide spectrum of practitioners in our field, from the highly 
professional (i.e. Rozendaal) to the communal (Ruth/Marc), and the 
iconoclasts (Alan).  What is clear is that:

1: Times change, presenting new challenges.
2: Players change
3: Politics change
4: Some become more or less materially successful
5: People love artists below 35, because they're still cheap and easy to 
speculate on


To me, frustration of born of wanting others to adhere to your 
worldview, and of course, the necessity for action derives from the 
degree of oppression or suffering or injustice the other inflicts.  I 
sense a lot of resentment, especially here, for the stratum that, over 
the last ten years, has become more accepted in the Contemporary 
discourse, and I get that. Honestly I agree in the criticisms of 
ahistoricity, complicity with neoliberalism, etc.


But saying that one ideology has more attention at one time than another 
means little to me as I see more time in front of me. It's just where 
you are at the moment.  Trust me, I'd love to be running around with 
some of my younger friends that I see on NYC or London, or Whatnot.  But 
I have academic responsibilities at the moment.


What I do agree with is that with the rise of the current wave of 
artistt, fame/money seem to be the overriding goal. I get that. Warhol 
was big into business; Marinetti was big into ahistoricity. And in the 
States especially, art school has become outrageous, so you either have 
to be rich or find a way to monetize.  Art in the Neoliberal.


And Turbulence.org is an early player in the ephemerality of our 
culture. Archive.org, openculture.org, etc. will have this problem at 
one point or another.  This is why I support people like Henry Warwick's 
offline repositories of cultural material, which is becoming more 
widespread.


And in so doing, I also agree with plodding on with extra-corporate 
communities, listservs like this, and so on. While they might seem 
anachronistic to some, they serve a great purpose.  They lend continuity 
to a culture that fragments and bubbles so often.


And this is where I see net art, it's relational, emphemeral, like 
performance, and as long as "we" as a heterogenous community do not just 
hold onto old models, and experiment with new forms, we're fine.



On 12/12/16 12:55 PM, Gretta Louw wrote:
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the 
revolutionary, meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in creating 
structures and platforms for ideas and people to engage. What comes 
out at the end - the video/prints etc that funders want to see or that 
gets posted to instagram - is not really the important part, at that 
point the art itself has already happened. And this making of 
structures and platforms is still greatly assisted by networked 
technologies.


g.


On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow 
mailto:ruth.cat...@furtherfield.org>> 
wrote:









--
Co-founder Co-director
Furtherfield

www.furtherfield.org

+44 (0) 77370 02879

Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i

Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & 
debates

around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997

Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand 
Arcade, Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Rob Myers]

On 12/12/16 01:24 AM, Annie Abrahams wrote:


let's continue the spirit


+ a Google. Err googol.

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Alan Sondheim]

Is there a mainstream art world? "The mainstream art world waited to utter 
the term "Internet art" until they could safely add the prefix "post-" to 
it" Jon Ippolito I think these reifications might be too simple, as are 
internet art, net art, post digital, digital, and so forth. I'm not 
interested in art about art in any sort of self-reflexive way, but I 
haven't anything against artists who explore that; for me while I agree 
completely with " We need to make work about things that matter more and 
are more grounded in the body, the land, in depth and real experience." - 
I worry about the underlying imperative here. There's depth in art about 
art, there's real experience there as well. All of these categories limit 
and limit ourselves, I think - for me, issues of communality, exploration, 
philosophy, the commons, diwo, diy, all of these are interrelated. I keep 
thinking of how Amerikkka at this point is all about drawing boundaries, 
and art history itself is one of those boundaries - canons, genera, media, 
new media, etc., etc. Just expressing a worry here, too many categories, 
maybe too many dismissals by virtue of the categories - Also, again where 
Marc says "- as in, take full control of its once grass roots identity, 
and own its history and future; and turn it all into its own pliable set 
of products." - as it was pointed out to me last night, a great deal of 
media-oriented art never was grass-roots for example. I can use myself 
here - I began in a terak mini-computer in the 70s creating drawing 
program w/ pascal etc. I had help - not course-wise, but academic help on 
the side; I used equipment that at that time would have cost tens and tens 
of thousands of USD - and a whole world opened up - in dialog with the 
institution that gave me freedom to work with the equipment. And I think 
there's a problem also with " but only so that all the typical top-down 
defaults of the mainstream can take it apart and force it to reflect its 
own intentions and belief systems" - I do understand what is meant by 
"mainstream," but after looking again at Atlanta art for example - ranging 
from the Printed Matter zinefest to an auction where artist exchange work 
among themselves to the current highly charged Atlanta Biennale at the 
Atlanta Contemporary, to Agnes Scott showing work dealing with southern 
identity and narrative, including an intense piece by Bessie Harvey etc. - 
I'm not sure where the "mainstream" actually is, or whether it serves any 
purpose to personify it. I'd like to see all these categories exploded so 
that we might proceed w/ looking and listening to everyone and anyone, 
finding our own paths through the creative debris ranging from monetary 
systems to zines to vr to the future of perception itself etc.


We just got in to Washington DC, discussing policy with one of the heads 
of a critical ngo, my head is reeling more than realing here. I bring this 
up because I feel more than ever the need for concrete politics and a 
breakdown of any barriers, aesthetic and otherise, at this point. Too many 
walls...


Hope this makes some sense - Alan
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[NetBehaviour] song in four parts, raleigh n.c.

[Alan Sondheim]

song in four parts, raleigh n.c.

http://www.alansondheim.org/atl380.jpg
http://www.alansondheim.org/atl381.jpg

the liana of the electoral college

the catastrophe of the electoral college
the debunking of the natural order of things
the ordering by way of broken markov chaining
the chance interventions subtending the news
the denouement of denouement
the prohibitive cost of biological gerrymandering
the construct of theological creation as classroom exercise
the liana as a way of life
the region halfway down the chthonic chain of command
the transformation of codes into restrain-release
the transformation of the environment as classroom exercise
the simultaneous rising and falling of the liana
the motion, stasis, and ipseity of the liana
the world of thusness
the extinction of thusness and ancestral biomes
the tending of biomes towards temporal transgression
the fraying of the edges of the curtain
the incoherency
the electoral election and its liana and demographic construct
and the liana of the electoral college

catastrophe of electoral college
debunking of natural order of things
ordering by way of broken markov chaining
chance interventions subtending news
denouement of denouement
prohibitive cost of biological gerrymandering
construct of theological creation as classroom exercise
liana as a way of life
region halfway down chthonic chain of command
transformation of codes into restrain-release
transformation of environment as classroom exercise
simultaneous rising and falling of liana
motion, stasis, and ipseity of liana
world of thusness
extinction of thusness and ancestral biomes
tending of biomes towards temporal transgression
fraying of edges of curtain
incoherency
electoral election and its liana and demographic construct
and the liana of the electoral college

and the catastrophe of the electoral college
and the debunking of the natural order of things
and the ordering by way of broken markov chaining
and the chance interventions subtending the news
and the denouement of denouement
and the prohibitive cost of biological gerrymandering
and the construct of theological creation as classroom
  exercise
and the liana as a way of life
and the region halfway down the chthonic chain of command
and the transformation of codes into restrain-release
and the transformation of the environment as
  classroom exercise
and the simultaneous rising and falling of the liana
and the motion, stasis, and ipseity of the liana
and the world of thusness
and the extinction of thusness and ancestral biomes
and the tending of biomes towards temporal transgression
and the fraying of the edges of the curtain
and the incoherency
and the electoral election and its liana and
  demographic construct
and the liana of the electoral college

and catastrophe of electoral college
and debunking of natural order of things
and ordering by way of broken markov chaining
and chance interventions subtending news
and denouement of denouement
and prohibitive cost of biological gerrymandering
and construct of theological creation as classroom exercise
and liana as a way of life
and region halfway down chthonic chain of command
and transformation of codes into restrain-release
and transformation of environment as classroom exercise
and simultaneous rising and falling of liana
and motion, stasis, and ipseity of liana
and world of thusness
and extinction of thusness and ancestral biomes
and tending of biomes towards temporal transgression
and fraying of edges of curtain
and incoherency
and electoral election and its liana and demographic
  construct
and the liana of the electoral college

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Furthernoise.org

[marc garrett]

Hi Mark,

No.

Ever since Roger Mills and Neil Jenkins left the UK, and started their new
(excellent) adventures in Australia. We have not had the time or the money
to keep Furthernoise going :-(

wishing you well.

marc

On 12 December 2016 at 14:04, Mark Hancock  wrote:

> Hi Marc/Ruth et al,
>
> I'm probably being a bit dense and have missed something. Is Furthernoise
> still active in any form or presence?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
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-- 
-- 

Marc Garrett
Co-Founder, Co-Director and main editor of Furtherfield.

Furtherfield - A living, breathing, thriving network
http://www.furtherfield.org - for art, technology and social change since
1996

Furtherfield Gallery & Commons,
Finsbury Park, London N4 2NQ
T +44(0)208 802 1301/+44(0)208 802 2827
M +44(0)7533676047
www.furtherfield.org
Academic Work for PhD At Birkbeck
https://birkbeck.academia.edu/MarcGarrett 
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[NetBehaviour] Furthernoise.org

[Mark Hancock]

Hi Marc/Ruth et al,

I'm probably being a bit dense and have missed something. Is Furthernoise
still active in any form or presence?

Thanks

Mark
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[NetBehaviour] Parsimoney

[{ brad brace }]

torn strand of earth?


fog watered ,calzado de

estrellas the thinning sleep

thuds and th uds uh pic

kle rolls in ddust bbe

neath yr bbed's dehiscent

cloud reveals a ddog in

spandex green as ww

ater radio's sta tic

war and bar king be

hind a chair yr moon gr

unts a sl eeve fills with

rain was curdled milk yr

arm fog yr bluish musk

runs down the s ink's

distant morning will be a

sea walking in yr zapatazo

izcuintle verde que te dice

??rbol arbre cuahuitl treee

John Bennett

Muffled after Ivan Arg??elles' ?^?^?Morgenstern?^?^?


Adoption of the simplest explanation for an observation. Also stinginess or
frugality in regards to dress and economics. Sheer spandex. Ripe moonlit flesh.
Ready-to-peal. Massacre crushes. Tiananmen square. Features a commissioned 
fluxist
poem from John M. Bennett.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ADWOQAE
https://www.amazon.com/author/bradbrace


/:b




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Re: [NetBehaviour] Turbulence.org Archive Lives On

[helen varley jamieson]

yes, great to hear :)


On 6/12/16 7:35 11PM, Paul Hertz wrote:
> Great news, ELO and Turbulence were critical early on to the
> development of digital media art. More than that, they include the
> "other histories" that don't make it into the books and lists and
> (impossible) canons. 
>
> -- Paul
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Alan Sondheim  > wrote:
>
>
> This is absolutely excellent; I'm associated with ELO, and they're
> excellent with archiving, conferences, and so forth. My nephew's
> associated with UVic digital media, and is probably involved in this.
> Congratulations!
>
> - Alan
>
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, marc garrett wrote:
>
> Just saw this in myu inbox, which cheered me up...
>
> marc
>
> Dear Turbulence.org Community,
>
> We are thrilled to announce that Turbulence.org will stay
> online for the
> foreseeable future.
>
> Thanks to the Electronic Literature Organization (ELO), the
> Turbulence.org
> Archive (http://turbulence.org and
> http://archive.turbulence.org) will be
> supported and hosted by the ELO (financial) and the Electronic
> Textual
> Cultures Lab (ETCL) at the University of Victoria, Canada
> (servers).
>
> The ELO was founded in 1999 to foster and promote the reading,
> writing,
> teaching, and understanding of literature (e-lit) as it
> develops and
> persists in a changing digital environment. A 501c(3) non-profit
> organization, the ELO includes writers, artists, teachers,
> scholars, and
> developers. Turbulence.org commissioned numerous e-lit works and
> co-organized many public events with ELO members. Both of us
> served as ELO
> board members for several years. http://eliterature.org/
>
> The Electronic Textual Cultures Lab (ETCL) engages in
> cross-disciplinary
> study of the past, present, and future of textual
> communication, and is a
> hub for digital humanities activities across the University of
> Victoria
> campus and beyond. http://etcl.uvic.ca/
>
> We want to thank the ELO?s Board, especially its President,
> Dene Grigar, whose
> swift action and unwavering support brought us to this new
> ?lifesaving?
> partnership. Dene is Professor and Director of The Creative
> Media & Digital
> Culture Program at Washington State University Vancouver,
> whose research
> focuses on the creation, curation, preservation, and criticism
> of Electronic
> Literature.
>
> Future access to the Turbulence.org Archive will be limited,
> as we will no
> longer have direct access to the servers. If any of you would
> like to update
> your work, please contact us as soon as possible.
>
> Finally, we will no longer need the services of long-time
> Turbulence.org
> System Administrator Jesse Gilbert. We would not have survived
> to-date
> without Jesse?s skill and dedication. Please join us in
> thanking him.
>
>
> Warmly,
>
> Helen Thorington and Jo-Anne Green
>
> --
> --
>
> Marc Garrett
> Co-Founder, Co-Director and main editor of Furtherfield.
>
> Furtherfield - A living, breathing, thriving network
> http://www.furtherfield.org - for art, technology and social
> change since
> 1996
>
> Furtherfield Gallery & Commons,
> Finsbury Park, London N4 2NQ
> T +44(0)208 802 1301
> /+44(0)208 802 2827
> 
> M +44(0)7533676047 
> www.furtherfield.org 
> Academic Work for PhD At Birkbeck
> https://birkbeck.academia.edu/MarcGarrett
> 
>
>
>
> ==
> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/
> 
> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 
> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/
> 
> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ui.txt
> 
> ==
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> 
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> -   |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)|   ---
> http://paulhertz.net/
>
>
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-- 
helen varley jamieson
he...@creative-

Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[helen varley jamieson]

+1 :)


On 12/12/16 11:51 42AM, Gretta Louw wrote:
> I like that quote, Marc, and I think you’re right about a lot of those
> points. The only thing I would point out is that for me Net Art and
> Post-Internet Art have almost nothing to do with one another. They are
> as similar as Body Art/Performance Art and an oil painting of a nude. 
> But I do think that Net Art needs to consider not only exploring the
> technology itself but (as Annie’s work often does, but not so many
> others) get into the bodily, human, societal, and environmental
> aspects of the net. We are not in a period where we can afford to make
> formal, conceptual, self-reflexive artworks about the material and
> about art itself. We need to make work about things that matter more
> and are more grounded in the body, the land, in depth and real experience.
>
> In solidarity,
> Gretta
>
>
>> On 12 Dec 2016, at 11:17 AM, marc garrett > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Annie & Gretta,
>>
>> yes, you're both bringing up something that has been at the forefront
>> of mine & Ruth's, discussions, intentions, and actions -- for a while
>> now. Hence, why Furtherfield exists in the first place...
>>
>> I found this a really interestinig comment, recently, by Jon Ippolito.
>>
>> "The mainstream art world waited to utter the term "Internet art"
>> until they could safely add the prefix "post-" to it" Jon Ippolito
>>
>> What Ippolito said is rather poignant, because it demonstrates a
>> shift where ownership of an artistic practice has 'officially' been
>> acknowledged as part of the mainstream, but only so that all the
>> typical top-down defaults of the mainstream can take it apart and
>> force it to reflect its own intentions and belief systems -- as in,
>> take full control of its once grass roots identity, and own its
>> history and future; and turn it all into its own pliable set of products.
>>
>> Wishing you well.
>>
>> marc
>>
>> On 12 December 2016 at 09:24, Annie Abrahams > > wrote:
>>
>> yes Gretta, that's it
>>
>> when reading Ruth's reaction I immediately became aware that my
>> phrase wasn't ok. of course we can continue the spirit, there is
>> no impossibility. I wanted to point to
>> 
>> http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/2016/12/06/role-play-your-way-to-budgetary-blockchain-bliss/
>> 
>> 
>> where you can read about Ruth's workshop for Moneylab, as an
>> example and of course I thought about my own work where learning
>> what it means to "be with" is more important than what is
>> actually happening, where the process is more important than the
>> result. I think the same is true for for instance Helen Varley
>> Jamieson's "we have a situation", and of course there is more.
>>
>> netart : we discussed possibilities and impossibilities - as
>> usual we complained, were nostalgic - net art is changing, the
>> internet is not what it was etc. but I also learned that
>> Ubermorgen (Hans and Liz) became professors in netart at a German
>> artschool
>> netart became a construct, starts to become historical
>> so what to complain?
>> let's continue the spirit
>>
>> xxx Annie
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Gretta Louw
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the
>> revolutionary, meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in
>> creating structures and platforms for ideas and people to
>> engage. What comes out at the end - the video/prints etc that
>> funders want to see or that gets posted to instagram - is not
>> really the important part, at that point the art itself has
>> already happened. And this making of structures and platforms
>> is still greatly assisted by networked technologies.
>>
>> g.
>>
>>
>>> On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow
>>> >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Co-founder Co-director
>>> Furtherfield
>>>
>>> www.furtherfield.org 
>>>
>>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>>
>>> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>>>
>>> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows,
>>> labs, & debates
>>> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>>>
>>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
>>> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
>>> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House,
>>> Grand Arcade, Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
>>> ___
>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>

Re: [NetBehaviour] chapter on "We have a situation!" in book on global civic engagement

[helen varley jamieson]

thank you ruth!! :)

i hope you managed to get in while it was free. the price for even a
single chapter is prohibitively expensive, it makes me very sad that the
publishing industry choose to make our work so inaccessible (especially
when we authors are not paid a penny by the publisher). it's surely not
a sustainable model.

h : /

On 5/12/16 6:58 26PM, ruth catlow wrote:
> Thanks Helen,
>
> I've got this queued up and am ready to pounce on this link :)
>
> In my view "We have a Situation" is a very important project. It goes
> deep, and involves people creatively with the work of co-constructing
> and performing rhetoric on political topics that directly impact their
> lives. It's at the other end of the continuum of online activism from
> social media clicktivism.
>
> best
> Ruth
>
>
> On 05/12/16 17:39, helen varley jamieson wrote:
>>
>> hi everyone,
>>
>> my chapter "We have a Situation! Cyberformance and Civic
>> Engagement in Post-Democracy" is about to be published in the book
>> "Convergence of Contemporary Art, Visual Culture, and Global Civic
>> Engagement", edited by Ryan Shin.
>>
>> the chapter documents the political cyberformance project "We have a
>> situation!", specifically focusing on the "situation" in Rio de
>> Janeiro last year (which looked at the water pollution crisis in the
>> context of the build-up to the olympics), & examines how
>> cyberformance can promote proto-political engagement and
>> post-democratic citizen activism (with a look at how mainstream
>> social media is NOT doing this).
>>
>> the publishers are offering a 3-day free access period to promote the
>> book, from tuesday 6 december. if you are interested, you can find it
>> at the following link:
>> http://services.igi-global.com/resolvedoi/resolve.aspx?doi=10.4018/978-1-5225-1665-1
>>
>> the official info is this:
>>
>>> IGI Global is allowing the research community to access the
>>> publication I contributed to, /Convergence of Contemporary Art,
>>> Visual Culture, and Global Civic Engagement, / for the next three
>>> days!//Starting Tuesday, December 6th, 2016, the entire publication
>>> will be open and free to access through IGI Global’s InfoSci®
>>> Platform. Electronic access will close on Thursday, December 8th,
>>> 2016, at 11:59 pm EST. Please follow the link below to take
>>> advantage of this unique opportunity. Upon entering the platform,
>>> please simply create an account and log in, or log in with a
>>> preexisting account.
>>>
>>> *Access the content at the following link:
>>> http://services.igi-global.com/resolvedoi/resolve.aspx?doi=10.4018/978-1-5225-1665-1*
>>>
>>> After reviewing this content, please consider recommending the title
>>> to your library. If you have any questions or concerns, you may
>>> contact the IGI Global Marketing Department at
>>> market...@igi-global.com .  
>> enjoy!
>> helen : )
>> -- 
>> helen varley jamieson
>> he...@creative-catalyst.com 
>> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
>> http://www.upstage.org.nz
>>
>> *We have a situation, Coventry!
>> *
>> 24 November 2016
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Co-founder Co-director
> Furtherfield
>
> www.furtherfield.org
>
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>
> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>
> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, &
> debates
> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
>
>
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-- 
helen varley jamieson
he...@creative-catalyst.com 
http://www.creative-catalyst.com
http://www.upstage.org.nz

*We have a situation, Coventry! *
24 November 2016

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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Gretta Louw]

I like that quote, Marc, and I think you’re right about a lot of those points. 
The only thing I would point out is that for me Net Art and Post-Internet Art 
have almost nothing to do with one another. They are as similar as Body 
Art/Performance Art and an oil painting of a nude. 
But I do think that Net Art needs to consider not only exploring the technology 
itself but (as Annie’s work often does, but not so many others) get into the 
bodily, human, societal, and environmental aspects of the net. We are not in a 
period where we can afford to make formal, conceptual, self-reflexive artworks 
about the material and about art itself. We need to make work about things that 
matter more and are more grounded in the body, the land, in depth and real 
experience.

In solidarity,
Gretta


> On 12 Dec 2016, at 11:17 AM, marc garrett  wrote:
> 
> Hi Annie & Gretta,
> 
> yes, you're both bringing up something that has been at the forefront of mine 
> & Ruth's, discussions, intentions, and actions -- for a while now. Hence, why 
> Furtherfield exists in the first place...
> 
> I found this a really interestinig comment, recently, by Jon Ippolito.
> 
> "The mainstream art world waited to utter the term "Internet art" until they 
> could safely add the prefix "post-" to it" Jon Ippolito
> 
> What Ippolito said is rather poignant, because it demonstrates a shift where 
> ownership of an artistic practice has 'officially' been acknowledged as part 
> of the mainstream, but only so that all the typical top-down defaults of the 
> mainstream can take it apart and force it to reflect its own intentions and 
> belief systems -- as in, take full control of its once grass roots identity, 
> and own its history and future; and turn it all into its own pliable set of 
> products.
> 
> Wishing you well.
> 
> marc
> 
> On 12 December 2016 at 09:24, Annie Abrahams  > wrote:
> yes Gretta, that's it
> 
> when reading Ruth's reaction I immediately became aware that my phrase wasn't 
> ok. of course we can continue the spirit, there is no impossibility. I wanted 
> to point to 
> http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/2016/12/06/role-play-your-way-to-budgetary-blockchain-bliss/
>  
> 
>  where you can read about Ruth's workshop for Moneylab, as an example and of 
> course I thought about my own work where learning what it means to "be with" 
> is more important than what is actually happening, where the process is more 
> important than the result. I think the same is true for for instance Helen 
> Varley Jamieson's "we have a situation", and of course there is more.
> 
> netart : we discussed possibilities and impossibilities - as usual we 
> complained, were nostalgic - net art is changing, the internet is not what it 
> was etc. but I also learned that Ubermorgen (Hans and Liz) became professors 
> in netart at a German artschool
> netart became a construct, starts to become historical
> so what to complain?
> let's continue the spirit
> 
> xxx Annie
> 
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Gretta Louw  > wrote:
> I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the revolutionary, 
> meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in creating structures and platforms 
> for ideas and people to engage. What comes out at the end - the video/prints 
> etc that funders want to see or that gets posted to instagram - is not really 
> the important part, at that point the art itself has already happened. And 
> this making of structures and platforms is still greatly assisted by 
> networked technologies.
> 
> g.
> 
> 
>> On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Co-founder Co-director
>> Furtherfield
>> 
>> www.furtherfield.org 
>> 
>> +44 (0) 77370 02879 
>> 
>> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i 
>> 
>> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & debates 
>> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>> 
>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee 
>> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205. 
>> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, Tally 
>> Ho Corner, London N12 0EH. 
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org 
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour 
>> 
> 
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org 
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> D

Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[marc garrett]

Hi Annie & Gretta,

yes, you're both bringing up something that has been at the forefront of
mine & Ruth's, discussions, intentions, and actions -- for a while now.
Hence, why Furtherfield exists in the first place...

I found this a really interestinig comment, recently, by Jon Ippolito.

"The mainstream art world waited to utter the term "Internet art" until
they could safely add the prefix "post-" to it" Jon Ippolito

What Ippolito said is rather poignant, because it demonstrates a shift
where ownership of an artistic practice has 'officially' been acknowledged
as part of the mainstream, but only so that all the typical top-down
defaults of the mainstream can take it apart and force it to reflect its
own intentions and belief systems -- as in, take full control of its once
grass roots identity, and own its history and future; and turn it all into
its own pliable set of products.

Wishing you well.

marc

On 12 December 2016 at 09:24, Annie Abrahams  wrote:

> yes Gretta, that's it
>
> when reading Ruth's reaction I immediately became aware that my phrase
> wasn't ok. of course we can continue the spirit, there is no impossibility.
> I wanted to point to http://networkcultures.org/
> moneylab/2016/12/06/role-play-your-way-to-budgetary-blockchain-bliss/
> where you can read about Ruth's workshop for Moneylab, as an example and of
> course I thought about my own work where learning what it means to "be
> with" is more important than what is actually happening, where the process
> is more important than the result. I think the same is true for for
> instance Helen Varley Jamieson's "we have a situation", and of course there
> is more.
>
> netart : we discussed possibilities and impossibilities - as usual we
> complained, were nostalgic - net art is changing, the internet is not what
> it was etc. but I also learned that Ubermorgen (Hans and Liz) became
> professors in netart at a German artschool
> netart became a construct, starts to become historical
> so what to complain?
> let's continue the spirit
>
> xxx Annie
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Gretta Louw 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the
>> revolutionary, meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in creating
>> structures and platforms for ideas and people to engage. What comes out at
>> the end - the video/prints etc that funders want to see or that gets posted
>> to instagram - is not really the important part, at that point the art
>> itself has already happened. And this making of structures and platforms is
>> still greatly assisted by networked technologies.
>>
>> g.
>>
>>
>> On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Co-founder Co-director
>> Furtherfield
>>
>> www.furtherfield.org
>>
>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>
>> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>>
>> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, &
>> debates
>> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>>
>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
>> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
>> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
>> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Distant FeelingS #3  Thursday 24 Nov. 6.30pm, 
> *VisionS
> in the Nunnery*, 181 Bow Road, London E3 2SJ and *online*.
> With *Lisa Parra*,* Daniel Pinheiro* and *Annie Abrahams*.
>
> *How does it feel to share an interface with eyes closed and no talking?*
> http://bram.org
> https://aabrahams.wordpress.com
> http://e-stranger.tumblr.com
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>



-- 
-- 

Marc Garrett
Co-Founder, Co-Director and main editor of Furtherfield.

Furtherfield - A living, breathing, thriving network
http://www.furtherfield.org - for art, technology and social change since
1996

Furtherfield Gallery & Commons,
Finsbury Park, London N4 2NQ
T +44(0)208 802 1301/+44(0)208 802 2827
M +44(0)7533676047
www.furtherfield.org
Academic Work for PhD At Birkbeck
https://birkbeck.academia.edu/MarcGarrett 
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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Annie Abrahams]

yes Gretta, that's it

when reading Ruth's reaction I immediately became aware that my phrase
wasn't ok. of course we can continue the spirit, there is no impossibility.
I wanted to point to
http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/2016/12/06/role-play-your-way-to-budgetary-blockchain-bliss/
where you can read about Ruth's workshop for Moneylab, as an example and of
course I thought about my own work where learning what it means to "be
with" is more important than what is actually happening, where the process
is more important than the result. I think the same is true for for
instance Helen Varley Jamieson's "we have a situation", and of course there
is more.

netart : we discussed possibilities and impossibilities - as usual we
complained, were nostalgic - net art is changing, the internet is not what
it was etc. but I also learned that Ubermorgen (Hans and Liz) became
professors in netart at a German artschool
netart became a construct, starts to become historical
so what to complain?
let's continue the spirit

xxx Annie

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Gretta Louw 
wrote:

> I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the
> revolutionary, meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in creating
> structures and platforms for ideas and people to engage. What comes out at
> the end - the video/prints etc that funders want to see or that gets posted
> to instagram - is not really the important part, at that point the art
> itself has already happened. And this making of structures and platforms is
> still greatly assisted by networked technologies.
>
> g.
>
>
> On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Co-founder Co-director
> Furtherfield
>
> www.furtherfield.org
>
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>
> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>
> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, &
> debates
> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>



-- 
Distant FeelingS #3  Thursday 24 Nov.
6.30pm, *VisionS
in the Nunnery*, 181 Bow Road, London E3 2SJ and *online*.
With *Lisa Parra*,* Daniel Pinheiro* and *Annie Abrahams*.

*How does it feel to share an interface with eyes closed and no talking?*
http://bram.org
https://aabrahams.wordpress.com
http://e-stranger.tumblr.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious

[Gretta Louw]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how often the art, the revolutionary, 
meaningful kind, at the moment is truly in creating structures and platforms 
for ideas and people to engage. What comes out at the end - the video/prints 
etc that funders want to see or that gets posted to instagram - is not really 
the important part, at that point the art itself has already happened. And this 
making of structures and platforms is still greatly assisted by networked 
technologies.

g.


> On 11 Dec 2016, at 12:26 PM, ruth catlow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Co-founder Co-director
> Furtherfield
> 
> www.furtherfield.org 
> 
> +44 (0) 77370 02879 
> 
> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i 
> 
> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & debates 
> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
> 
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee 
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205. 
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, Tally 
> Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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