[NSP] pipapelli
That's bonkers!! It's great fun, though - I found a MySpace page for them. RJ Grady is the piper, he looks a bit like Lemmy from Motorhead, and likes to wear the kilt. http://www.myspace.com/pipapelli I'll be sending them a 'friend' request to be sure. He's rewritten the book of wrong bagpiping, and he obviously doesn't give a toss - I'm enjoying listening to it, and I don't know why... The singer is crap, too, which is perfect! The guitarist sounds like he can actually play a wee bit though - what's he doing? Can't he get a gig with anyone else? I've listenend to all the tunes on their site now - how often does that happen?! Donald http://www.myspace.com/donaldlindsay -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: mp3of pipapapella "ouch"
Hmmm pipapella - the positive side of this is that the group probably have a following of young people and one of their following may just explore a bit more of bagpipe music simply because they saw the instrument and were intrigued. Let's not underestimate the inquisitiveness of the young. The other positive side is that the group are out there and performing and good on them for that too - they no doubt entertain some people so let's not lose sight of that. Cheers Ian Bartlett Auckland, New Zealand To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] mp3of pipapapella "ouch"
Did I hear the "Peter Gunn" theme in the background? It was the only thing that was intelligible. Regards, Larry -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] The Colarado ouch
Hi Ian, it has just turned midnight and a banshee with an E guitar has just gone wailing through my office. Now I am going to have a sleepless night with Banquo`s Ghost. The hairs are still standing upon the back of my neck. On the other hand, I know some kids from the Gothic Revival Scene who would absolutely love this stuff. Cheers now Ina -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
Ian Lawther wrote: > Just to take this discussion outside our immediate sphere I htough I would > share a sound clip with you. In amongst the dozens of emails from the NSP > list this morning I got one from a Colarado based group that mixes "bagpipes > with rocking blues". I went to their site to have a listen and think what I > heard is relevant to this discussion. I enjoy the "broad church" that is now > Scottish pipe music and listen to people like the late Martyn Bennett, Mark > Saul, Rare Air and others who combine well ground highland piping with all > sorts of other stuff. However the group from Colarado is using poor playing > with a rock background just to be different. Listen here: > http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/pipapelli-01.m3u > > Translating this back to NSP we can have a wide range of music played but > what has to be at the base of it is good technique otherwise we get an > equivalent of what you have just heard... > > Ian > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > They've missed on all counts ... It's poor piping, poor rock and poor blues. In their defence, it is one hell of a good racket ...!! I must be getting old - Jim -- Jim Stewart musician/composer http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/stewart/
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
At last, the voice of reason in this discussion. Well said Colin! Richard Colin wrote: > There is no 'official' NPS policy on telling folk how to play the closed > end > smallpipes as far as I am aware in my position as Chairman and Vice > President of the NPS. I beleive that Julia - NPS Secretary - has said this > already. > Therefore 'competition' style or any other style does not exist except > that > the fingering should be 'closed'. What any listener wants to hear is a > musical > performance which can involve anything that is possible on the closed end > chanter whether it be detached,slurred, overblown or anything else the > player > can get out of the chanter to express what he or she wants to convey in > performance. > I sometimes think that piping has become almost a religion to some players > and the spectre of fundimentalism then rears its ugly head so that the > closed > style of playing is declared to be the the only 'correct' way to play the > chanter with the risk of having your fingers severed as a punishment if > you dare > to deviate from the true way. > Ours is a broad church so keep the faith and enjoy all the various ways we > can express ourselves on the pipes. > The rev. Colin Ross > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
Just to take this discussion outside our immediate sphere I htough I would share a sound clip with you. In amongst the dozens of emails from the NSP list this morning I got one from a Colarado based group that mixes "bagpipes with rocking blues". I went to their site to have a listen and think what I heard is relevant to this discussion. I enjoy the "broad church" that is now Scottish pipe music and listen to people like the late Martyn Bennett, Mark Saul, Rare Air and others who combine well ground highland piping with all sorts of other stuff. However the group from Colarado is using poor playing with a rock background just to be different. Listen here: http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/pipapelli-01.m3u Translating this back to NSP we can have a wide range of music played but what has to be at the base of it is good technique otherwise we get an equivalent of what you have just heard... Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
Colin, 'Right reverend' for the Chairman and VP, surely?? I would absolutely agree that the music comes first, and a rigorous prescriptive style could kill the music. My feeling is this is what happened to Highland pipe music. Advisory guidelines, though, might serve to remind people, especially beginners, that sloppiness and artistic freedom are not the same thing, though. The justification for Pauline or Kathryn playing slurred notes or open graces is that they have enough technique to make a choice. The choice isn't open to some with less technique and there is a risk of them citing these as role models. Hope all's well, John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2006 18:02 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: nps detatched There is no 'official' NPS policy on telling folk how to play the closed end smallpipes as far as I am aware in my position as Chairman and Vice President of the NPS. I beleive that Julia - NPS Secretary - has said this already. Therefore 'competition' style or any other style does not exist except that the fingering should be 'closed'. What any listener wants to hear is a musical performance which can involve anything that is possible on the closed end chanter whether it be detached,slurred, overblown or anything else the player can get out of the chanter to express what he or she wants to convey in performance. I sometimes think that piping has become almost a religion to some players and the spectre of fundimentalism then rears its ugly head so that the closed style of playing is declared to be the the only 'correct' way to play the chanter with the risk of having your fingers severed as a punishment if you dare to deviate from the true way. Ours is a broad church so keep the faith and enjoy all the various ways we can express ourselves on the pipes. The rev. Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
There is no 'official' NPS policy on telling folk how to play the closed end smallpipes as far as I am aware in my position as Chairman and Vice President of the NPS. I beleive that Julia - NPS Secretary - has said this already. Therefore 'competition' style or any other style does not exist except that the fingering should be 'closed'. What any listener wants to hear is a musical performance which can involve anything that is possible on the closed end chanter whether it be detached,slurred, overblown or anything else the player can get out of the chanter to express what he or she wants to convey in performance. I sometimes think that piping has become almost a religion to some players and the spectre of fundimentalism then rears its ugly head so that the closed style of playing is declared to be the the only 'correct' way to play the chanter with the risk of having your fingers severed as a punishment if you dare to deviate from the true way. Ours is a broad church so keep the faith and enjoy all the various ways we can express ourselves on the pipes. The rev. Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detached
On 17 May 2006, Gibbons, John wrote: > This topic is certainly worth a detailed and wide discussion, As we are doing. I have a running edit going on this thread (ie I'm saving the mesages in order, and editing off the excess headers, that's all), a digest of which will probably end up in committee members' inboxes for discussion. > it would ultimately be worth the Committee issuing //advisory// > guidelines. I'll bring this suggestion to folks' attention. > any defined 'house style'.. would be > over-restrictive. We would turn into Highland pipers, only with a > different style. It is my personal opinion that this would not be a desirable outcome. > Perhaps it's time for an up-to-date NPS tutor. Compare the LBPS's More > Power to your Elbow, with CD-rom attached This is something which is already on the 'serious consideration' list for future publications. I hope this helps -- Julia Say, Hon Sec. NPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 01670 860215 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
I would certainly urge the other 50% to join the NPS. As the "recognised" voice for the NSP and by the very nature of their existence it would seem that those who contribute to the list could make their views more "official" by joining. "One voice" and all that. The more members, the louder their voice and the more likely they are to be heard (and asked) about things. It's the pipes not their location that is important (I don't mean anything odd here, just that it doesn't matter where you live - lest that be thought of as an insult to the NE or thereabouts or the people living there. Phew, nearly started something there). No, I'm not connected with it other than as a member and I probably cost them a fortune as I joined as a life member back in '72. I do think they are very important though. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Gibbons, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "nsp" ; "what.me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: nps detatched > Julia, > > This topic is certainly worth a detailed and wide discussion, and it > would ultimately be worth the Committee issuing //advisory// guidelines. > But //prescriptive// guidelines - eg > any 2 notes should have a gap between them; > grace notes should also be separated, both from their melody note and > one another; > ... > > or any defined 'house style', even if it is a style I like, would be > over-restrictive. We would turn into Highland pipers, only with a > different style. > > Perhaps it's time for an up-to-date NPS tutor. Compare the LBPS's More > Power to your Elbow, with CD-rom attached - pity the title's gone > really. > > John > > > > -Original Message- > From: Julia Say [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 17 May 2006 15:20 > To: nsp; what.me > Subject: [NSP] Re: nps detatched > > > On 17 May 2006, what.me wrote: > > > This is what I'm trying to get at - I would like to know: does the NPS > > > accept that legato is a correct way of playing the pipes? > > Adrian and all: > > Please note change of email address, and hence change of mental hat. > > As far as I am aware, the NPS does not have, and has never had, a > formally agreed policy on appropriate style for playing the > Northumbrian smallpipes. > > Whether it should have one, and if so, what that should be, would be > a matter for the NPS committee to decide. Such a process would > hopefully include discussions with the commonly recognized > authorities on the subject - our top-flight players. > > If you wish this matter to be taken up by the committee I will gladly > draw it to their attention and initiate such a discussion. > > For the record, only a minority of the NPS committee read this list. > I believe about 50% of the list's subscribers are NPS members. > > I hope this helps > > -- > Julia Say, Hon Sec. NPS > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tel 01670 860215 > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
Julia, This topic is certainly worth a detailed and wide discussion, and it would ultimately be worth the Committee issuing //advisory// guidelines. But //prescriptive// guidelines - eg any 2 notes should have a gap between them; grace notes should also be separated, both from their melody note and one another; ... or any defined 'house style', even if it is a style I like, would be over-restrictive. We would turn into Highland pipers, only with a different style. Perhaps it's time for an up-to-date NPS tutor. Compare the LBPS's More Power to your Elbow, with CD-rom attached - pity the title's gone really. John -Original Message- From: Julia Say [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2006 15:20 To: nsp; what.me Subject: [NSP] Re: nps detatched On 17 May 2006, what.me wrote: > This is what I'm trying to get at - I would like to know: does the NPS > accept that legato is a correct way of playing the pipes? Adrian and all: Please note change of email address, and hence change of mental hat. As far as I am aware, the NPS does not have, and has never had, a formally agreed policy on appropriate style for playing the Northumbrian smallpipes. Whether it should have one, and if so, what that should be, would be a matter for the NPS committee to decide. Such a process would hopefully include discussions with the commonly recognized authorities on the subject - our top-flight players. If you wish this matter to be taken up by the committee I will gladly draw it to their attention and initiate such a discussion. For the record, only a minority of the NPS committee read this list. I believe about 50% of the list's subscribers are NPS members. I hope this helps -- Julia Say, Hon Sec. NPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 01670 860215 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
On 17 May 2006, what.me wrote: > This is what I'm trying to get at - I would like to know: does the NPS > accept that legato is a correct way of playing the pipes? Adrian and all: Please note change of email address, and hence change of mental hat. As far as I am aware, the NPS does not have, and has never had, a formally agreed policy on appropriate style for playing the Northumbrian smallpipes. Whether it should have one, and if so, what that should be, would be a matter for the NPS committee to decide. Such a process would hopefully include discussions with the commonly recognized authorities on the subject - our top-flight players. If you wish this matter to be taken up by the committee I will gladly draw it to their attention and initiate such a discussion. For the record, only a minority of the NPS committee read this list. I believe about 50% of the list's subscribers are NPS members. I hope this helps -- Julia Say, Hon Sec. NPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 01670 860215 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Drone reeds: natural verus composite
Thanks Miguel, I concur that all metal reeds sound well... metallic. One set of mouthblown Scottish parlor pipes I own came with elegantly made all brass reeds --tongue and body. They are very stable, easy to adjust, but unacceptable because they have a high pitched ringing harmonic that plastic bodied, plastic tongues do not produce. They were swapped out with the all plastic reeds. The plugging device on the all plastic reeds you describe sounds like the functional equivalent of "Ash Plugs" that are applied to GHPs for crisp strike-ins and instant stops. I have Ash plugs in my GHP for that reason, because the moisture control system (Ross canister) makes striking in and stopping difficult. Regards, Sam Edwards -Original Message- From: Miguel Costa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 3:36 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone reeds: natural verus composite I'm divided on this issue. I really like the sound of all-cane reeds, and I'm a bit conservative on that matter, but I'd rather have the reliability of plastic reeds. Metal reeds, for what I tried so far, have this obnoxious robotic sound (I call them "Spectrum reeds", although they could also be called Amiga or whatever brand of early domestic computers you like). Right now I'm testing a new model of all-plastic reeds a friend offered me. They sound somewhat similar to cane, but last longer and seem immune to moisture or temperature changes. Also, they come with a handy "plugging" device, which requires a certain amount of air pressure to make them sound - makes it easy to stop or start the drones when I want to. Miguel 2006/5/16, Colin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > When Colin Ross refurbished my Hedworth set some years back, he replaced the > original cane reeds with metal body/cane tongue ones and, to be honest, I > have found them far more stable and (I didn't think I would like them as > they were not the "traditional" ones), I actually prefer the sound they > make. > I have had no reason to try anything plastic as these are still playing fine > so I can't comment on those variations > Oh, I don't think they should be making noises like that - or at least mine > never did. I sound as if they are open too much (maybe with the tongues too > thin as well?) but as I am not techie I may be in error. I found no > difference to the amount of air used when they were changed. > Colin Hill > - Original Message - > From: "Sam Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:11 PM > Subject: *** SPAM *** [NSP] Drone reeds: natural verus composite > > > > No doubt this topic has been discussed often in prior threads. > > > > My NSP set has natural cane reeds. The drone reed diameters for the > shorter > > drones is not much more than 1/8". It is pretty amazing that these reeds > > could be made from some narrow, delicate, pieces of cane. Can't argue with > > the result. The drones sound fine. One thing though, is they seem to > consume > > alot of air, or make a very noticable hissing noise while filling the bag > > prior to striking in. I have experimented with moving the bridles up, ever > > so slightly to reduce air consumption, but have found that these reeds > will > > more often shut down before getting the desired reduction in hissing. > Having > > some experience with composite reeds on SSP and GHPs, I observe that > shorter > > bodies, broader blades are easier to adjust for minimal air consumption > > while not shutting as readily. > > > > I am not planning to replace the natural cane drone reeds on my NSP at > this > > point, but am curious what the experiences and preferences are of the > > veteran NSP players are on the possible permutations: > > 1.All natural cane > > 2.Cane blade on metal or wood or plastic bodies > > 3.Plastic blades on metal or wood or plastic bodies > > 4.Metal blades on metal or wood or plastic bodies. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > >
[NSP] Re: nps detatched
Adrian, You asked This is what I'm trying to get at - I would like to know: does the NPS accept that legato is a correct way of playing the pipes? I hope true legato is an absolute no-no; slurring/sliding only permitted as a deliberate and rare effect - eg in Border Spirit. As for how to play grace notes - I prefer them separated form the note they precede, but Billy Pigg made great use of open trills - Tom Clough regarded these as a gross error. Some better pipers than me (Pauline etc) use legato as a contrast to staccato in eg The Cow's Corrant (on New Tyne Bridge) - there in a beat of a jig the first 2 quavers are slurred and the 3rd detached. But I don't like the effect. It would be a brave judge to disqualify that otherwise excellent performance though. Perhaps we need a few John In competitions where I've played I've certainly heard competitors criticised for playing open - even for open fingered gracing, when the melody notes were clearly detached. Depends who the judge is to some extent. But we don't want to go down the route of saying 'competition style' is one thing, and real life is something different. The point is twofold: (a) it is untraditional/inauthentic to play the NSP open, (b) that's because they sound worse that way. The only 'argument in favour' of playing open is that it's easier - so is playing out of tune and out of time. The proponents of these styles are less vocal, but not less numerous... If you want to play open, get a set of border pipes, SSP or something. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: staccato
Adrian, John, Matt and all -- thanks for the help on the infinitely adaptable detached playing styles, I can separate this quite clearly now from Bassoon -- Matt sorry about the manuscript bit - I have been deep into middle english manuscript stuff and it just stuck -- should really be Peacock collection shouldn't it. Again special thanks to Adrian for tenacity of purpose -- great to read you again -- ciao Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Questions on aspects of the pipes: range, playing in sessions
Hi Folks!
Well, inspired by the many and varied comments after 'outing' myself,
here are a few questions for which I am sure your learned selves can
supply a few answers.
My background, as I said, is that of the flute -- technically-speaking,
the classical flute, although I have been playing the Irish flute
nearly three years. What I'd like to do is start with the pipes in the
near future ('near' means in the next two years) and I am considering
NSPs for the following reasons:
- Not mouth-blown, I already have to stick too much near or in that ;-)
- Decent scale. I've got nothing against other pipes like GHB but I
want to be able to play session tunes on them, so having only one
octave or so is going to be pretty limiting. As I understand it, NSPs
can run to nearly two octaves -- correct?
- In a useful key. Actually, this isn't really the case, since I have
learnt that NSPs are commonly in "F+", but maybe someone call tell me
what kind of NSPs would be best for playing in a folk session, i.e.
with fiddles, mandolins, flutes, etc.
- They just sound great, from what little I've heard!! And they're
not the giant monsters that Irish pipes are :=)
What I really need to do though is to get more recordings, so I can
find out what everyone does with the NSPs. That's partly why I was a
bit surprised/annoyed at the disagreements over 'traditional' NSP
playing -- I appreciate that keeping a tradition alive is a positive
thing, but pillorying anyone doing anything else doesn't really make
NSPs sound like an attractive option. I myself regularly take my
classical flute to sessions to play all those tricksy tunes in C, F,
etc. -- and also since it commands respect from fiddle players when you
can play at the same volume :=) So far, no complaints ;-)
So what CDs can people recommend? My favorite piping so far is from a
sampler, and by a long way -- the playing of Billy Pigg (Wild Hills
O'Wannie, Skye Crofters, etc.). That would be what I would want to
halfway sound like if I got NSPs. I've also heard playing by Kathryn
Tickell and Peter Dyson (on the Liestman website), plus bits here and
there.
Hoping to at some point join the piping community .. any replies
welcome to what is a lot of questions without much structure :=)
Cheers,
Ed
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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nps detatched
This is what I'm trying to get at - I would like to know: does the NPS accept that legato is a correct way of playing the pipes? In competitions where I've played I've certainly heard competitors criticised for playing open - even for open fingered gracing, when the melody notes were clearly detached. Depends who the judge is to some extent. But we don't want to go down the route of saying 'competition style' is one thing, and real life is something different. The point is twofold: (a) it is untraditional/inauthentic to play the NSP open, (b) that's because they sound worse that way. The only 'argument in favour' of playing open is that it's easier - so is playing out of tune and out of time. The proponents of these styles are less vocal, but not less numerous... If you want to play open, get a set of border pipes, SSP or something. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: nps detached
Adriam and everybody, In competitions where I've played I've certainly heard competitors criticised for playing open - even for open fingered gracing, when the melody notes were clearly detached. Depends who the judge is to some extent. But we don't want to go down the route of saying 'competition style' is one thing, and real life is something different. The point is twofold: (a) it is untraditional/inauthentic to play the NSP open, (b) that's because they sound worse that way. The only 'argument in favour' of playing open is that it's easier - so is playing out of tune and out of time. The proponents of these styles are less vocal, but not less numerous... If you want to play open, get a set of border pipes, SSP or something. John -Original Message- From: what.me [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2006 12:08 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] nps detached A question, or two: I take it that most of those on this list are members of the NPS too? And if you are members, then, is not one of the qualifications of being a member to promote the pipes and accept that the NPS have some say as to what are the small-pipes and how the Small-pipes should be played? Then please could I have a definative answer from the NSP as to what method of fingering the chanter is acceptable when playing in the NSP competitions. In other words, does one have to play 'detached' or can one play by 'running in the notes together without a gap? Would one get marked down/disqualified/encouraged to play 'detached'? What about the Judges who may accept non-detached fingering? As Mr Fenwick was a representitive of the NSP then I would guess that what he wrote in the tutor was and is still correct today, as I've not seen any other publication by the NSP as to contradict this. Adrian. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nps detached
A question, or two: I take it that most of those on this list are members of the NPS too? And if you are members, then, is not one of the qualifications of being a member to promote the pipes and accept that the NPS have some say as to what are the small-pipes and how the Small-pipes should be played? Then please could I have a definative answer from the NSP as to what method of fingering the chanter is acceptable when playing in the NSP competitions. In other words, does one have to play 'detached' or can one play by 'running in the notes together without a gap? Would one get marked down/disqualified/encouraged to play 'detached'? What about the Judges who may accept non-detached fingering? As Mr Fenwick was a representitive of the NSP then I would guess that what he wrote in the tutor was and is still correct today, as I've not seen any other publication by the NSP as to contradict this. Adrian. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
Slurred = muddy would be an alternative to the one I just gave. Don't confuse with sliding from one note to the next, which can be very effective. In 'Miss Hannah Ormston' I don't recall any slurs, and a slide (e->f) in only one place - it's a lovely, and probably effective, lullaby. John -Original Message- From: what.me [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2006 10:44 To: Dave Singleton Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: staccato - Original Message - From: "Dave Singleton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "what.me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] staccato > Hi Adrian, >We will never know, but don't miss the point, when the > chanter got closed, BOTH legato and staccato could be played with ease, > and to good effect. > And as we all know if you have the possibility, and you don't have to, > it's a challenge not to. > I agree that staccato should come first, otherwise the musculature never > gets trained for staccato playing, after you can play staccato, why would > one play a lullaby that sounds like machine gun fire ? --- oh yea --- keep > the little b*gger awake until midnight then it'll sleep right through --- > must tell my brother in law about that one !! > I would love to be able to play "Ã les pois qui tombent" and at the > requisite speed of the melodies, but it ain't gonna happen, I don't have > the dedication to practise every day or the capability to memorize tunes, > I need the dots. But I agree with the primitive urges, all for them in > fact -- but keep off my end -- it is staying firmly on the end of my > whatsit, along with all those metally thingies up and down the black > doodah, > > Dave Hello Dave, if you notice, when playing legato, there is an unpleasant sound of wafting air. I dare say that there is a lot of turbulance as one finger is placed on a hole and the next finger is lifted, especially if it is the hole adjacent to it. I can't condone this, as it sounds like a slow punture from an inner tube. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
Working definitions, perhaps more precise than pip, pop, etc? Staccatissimo < 1/2 of written length Staccato~1/2 written length Poco staccato ~3/4 written length Tenuto minimal gap at end of note Slurred no gap In 'I saw my love' Chris uses most of these except the last. Different players will use the words differently, and the styles in different proportions, but the distinction should be clear, whatever choices you make. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2006 10:47 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; what.me Subject: [NSP] Re: staccato On 16 May 2006, what.me wrote: > ' There is no qualification more important to the learner than that of >correct fingering .. > Therefore, it would seem that playing legato is not a style, but an > incorrect way of playing the chanter. Thank you, Adrian. And also to John for pointing out that within the correct "detached" fingering there is a wide gradation of articulation possible and available. Staccato is only one of these. The use of the word legato is possibly confusing to many folk (particularly those who like me have crossed over from other, orchestral, instruments?). I have heard it used by pipers both as above - to mean "one note joined to the next" (= slurred in classical music [I believe], and therefore incorrect in Fenwick's definition which Adrian quoted); and in a piping context only, to mean as smoothly as possible, but still detached (= John G's "tenuto", I think). Perhaps we all need to tighten up on our use of language on this one. I know I am responsible for some printed occurrences of "staccato" where "detached fingering" would have been more appropriate. We live and learn (hopefully). I think I can feel a magazine article coming on Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] staccato
Hi all, I dare say they were legato and staccato; who knows whether they had closed end or for some players, open ended chanters in those days? And remember, it was music 'adapted' for the small-pipes. There are tunes that should have c# 's in the book, but c's are played instead 'cause they didn't have c# keys or any other keys. Perhaps the small-pipes were played open fingered and then closed fingered or both. It would seem that, until recently, they were played staccato, exept for those who couldn't do it. But now the trend seems to be, maybe, going backwards. Perhaps the stopped end can be taken off again and the keys too. Lets get back to the primitive urges. Oh dear, we'll just have Scottish small-pipes in the key of E. Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
On 16 May 2006, what.me wrote: > ' There is no qualification more important to the learner than that of >correct fingering .. > Therefore, it would seem that playing legato is not a style, but an incorrect > way of playing the chanter. Thank you, Adrian. And also to John for pointing out that within the correct "detached" fingering there is a wide gradation of articulation possible and available. Staccato is only one of these. The use of the word legato is possibly confusing to many folk (particularly those who like me have crossed over from other, orchestral, instruments?). I have heard it used by pipers both as above - to mean "one note joined to the next" (= slurred in classical music [I believe], and therefore incorrect in Fenwick's definition which Adrian quoted); and in a piping context only, to mean as smoothly as possible, but still detached (= John G's "tenuto", I think). Perhaps we all need to tighten up on our use of language on this one. I know I am responsible for some printed occurrences of "staccato" where "detached fingering" would have been more appropriate. We live and learn (hopefully). I think I can feel a magazine article coming on Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
- Original Message - From: "Dave Singleton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "what.me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] staccato > Hi Adrian, >We will never know, but don't miss the point, when the > chanter got closed, BOTH legato and staccato could be played with ease, > and to good effect. > And as we all know if you have the possibility, and you don't have to, > it's a challenge not to. > I agree that staccato should come first, otherwise the musculature never > gets trained for staccato playing, after you can play staccato, why would > one play a lullaby that sounds like machine gun fire ? --- oh yea --- keep > the little b*gger awake until midnight then it'll sleep right through --- > must tell my brother in law about that one !! > I would love to be able to play "Ã les pois qui tombent" and at the > requisite speed of the melodies, but it ain't gonna happen, I don't have > the dedication to practise every day or the capability to memorize tunes, > I need the dots. But I agree with the primitive urges, all for them in > fact -- but keep off my end -- it is staying firmly on the end of my > whatsit, along with all those metally thingies up and down the black > doodah, > > Dave Hello Dave, if you notice, when playing legato, there is an unpleasant sound of wafting air. I dare say that there is a lot of turbulance as one finger is placed on a hole and the next finger is lifted, especially if it is the hole adjacent to it. I can't condone this, as it sounds like a slow punture from an inner tube. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
Dave, I'm not a smallpiper but I do play the fiddle and those look like fiddle articulations to me. Please don't call Peacock a manuscript, people are confused enough already. As for O'er the Dyke it's a bit of a mystery tune, there's a similar but earlier version in Aird's collection and a very different version, arguably a totally different tune with the same title, in Dixon. There's a mistake in Peacock which is uncorrected in later copyings, bar 5 last note should be E not D. I believe that's corroborated by Aird (can't find it just now) as well as the tune's internal logic. The Peacock version of Ain Kind Dearie is a gem, dare I say better in every way than Tom Clough's version. >Hi Adrian, Matt Chris, and all others too numerous to mention > >I would like a bit of help here. I look quite often at the Peacock >manuscript, /*tunes transcribed for smallpipes*/, if we look at o'er the >dyke you can clearly see legato marking over some notes, in others you >see legato followed by a clear staccato sign, this being repreated >through the tune. In My ain Kind Dearie it is even more pronounced the >the staccato notes be extra strongly staccato but are legato'ed as well >(5 bars from the end and the penultimate bar, but not legato in bar >15)-- how should we play this ? I would appreciate any help because I >cannot get local expertise on trad style for NSP, musically I can fully >understand what was intended, it being very close to a Bassoon style --- > >Thanks in advance > >Dave Singleton > > >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: staccato
Thank you, John, for clearing up a widespread misapprehension. As you point out, "staccato" does not mean "short"; it means "separated". The separation need only be a hair's breadth. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: staccato Dave, A lot of these markings (not all) appear in the extended range tunes - presumably transcribed/adapted fiddle tunes, and may be copieded from fiddle articulations. Any known sources, Matt? In the obvious pipe tunes, say Meggy's Foot, it is still possible to get a gradation between staccatissimo/staccato/ poco staccato/tenuto, (explained to me once as respectively 'pip', 'pop', 'pom', and 'pah' ) and play the notes without actually slurring anything. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Drone reeds: natural verus composite
I've got metal bodies plus cane tongues in my G set, and metal bodies with plastic tongues in my F set and they both sound fine. Not sure if I could tell the difference without looking. c -Original Message- From: Colin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:04 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone reeds: natural verus composite When Colin Ross refurbished my Hedworth set some years back, he replaced the original cane reeds with metal body/cane tongue ones and, to be honest, I have found them far more stable and (I didn't think I would like them as they were not the "traditional" ones), I actually prefer the sound they make. I have had no reason to try anything plastic as these are still playing fine so I can't comment on those variations Oh, I don't think they should be making noises like that - or at least mine never did. I sound as if they are open too much (maybe with the tongues too thin as well?) but as I am not techie I may be in error. I found no difference to the amount of air used when they were changed. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Sam Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [NSP] Drone reeds: natural verus composite > No doubt this topic has been discussed often in prior threads. > > My NSP set has natural cane reeds. The drone reed diameters for the shorter > drones is not much more than 1/8". It is pretty amazing that these reeds > could be made from some narrow, delicate, pieces of cane. Can't argue with > the result. The drones sound fine. One thing though, is they seem to consume > alot of air, or make a very noticable hissing noise while filling the bag > prior to striking in. I have experimented with moving the bridles up, ever > so slightly to reduce air consumption, but have found that these reeds will > more often shut down before getting the desired reduction in hissing. Having > some experience with composite reeds on SSP and GHPs, I observe that shorter > bodies, broader blades are easier to adjust for minimal air consumption > while not shutting as readily. > > I am not planning to replace the natural cane drone reeds on my NSP at this > point, but am curious what the experiences and preferences are of the > veteran NSP players are on the possible permutations: > 1.All natural cane > 2.Cane blade on metal or wood or plastic bodies > 3.Plastic blades on metal or wood or plastic bodies > 4.Metal blades on metal or wood or plastic bodies. > > Thanks, > > Sam > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
