[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
On 30 Jun 2011, at 08:15, John Dally wrote: Here are a couple of youtube items that already fit the bill for July. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHBO8CGAIeQfeature=related [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKC0ZoVqfzUNR=1 What's your take on the tune? Hi John, Two very contrasting renditions. [1] It's a lot easier to play Roxborough Castle in dotted rhythm, as is done here. I prefer it played absolutely straight, which is really very challenging. A commonly played tune which is rarely played well. I quite like this rendition here . . . seems to have been videoed during a casual session by a bystander. [2] Awful, awful, awful! This version has the tune played in a manner way beyond the performers ability or understanding of the tune, and apparently on a poorly set-up instrument. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
Might be quite good if he played it at half the speed. And got his chanter remotely in tune. Otherwise agree with Francis. Me too. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the man with the tin ear
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:22, smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: I agree with francis. Another mangalisation this time using the Uillean pipes as the weapon of choice. http://www.youtube.com/user/disinpass#p/a/u/0/dkK4_tcPaG8 And, guessing from the size of those arms, he's using the UP bag as a workout device! francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the man with the tin ear
.and would probably sound better if he didn't insist on using a corner of the Gents for recording his videos Tim On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:33, Francis Wood wrote: On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:22, smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: I agree with francis. Another mangalisation this time using the Uillean pipes as the weapon of choice. http://www.youtube.com/user/disinpass#p/a/u/0/dkK4_tcPaG8 And, guessing from the size of those arms, he's using the UP bag as a workout device! francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
Yes to both, and the acoustic doesn't help at all. And a curious choice of drone, which on my headset seemed to be the subdominant. I admire anyone, though, who can honestly say they've never played too fast when confronted with a recording device, and mangled good intentions, when nervous adrenalin cripples technique though. Or am I being too kind to him - is he just a man of tin ears indeed? Richard. On 30/06/2011 09:22, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Might be quite good if he played it at half the speed. And got his chanter remotely in tune. Otherwise agree with Francis. Me too. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11660SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
And a curious choice of drone, which on my headset seemed to be the subdominant. Yes I admire anyone, though, who can honestly say they've never played too fast when confronted with a recording device, and mangled good intentions, when nervous adrenalin cripples technique though. Or am I being too kind to him - is he just a man of tin ears indeed? Richard. Could have done another take? C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
True 'nuff! :) On 30/06/2011 10:20, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: ... Could have done another take? C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11671SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
-- On Thu, 30/6/11, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: It's a lot easier to play Roxborough Castle in dotted rhythm, as is done here. I prefer it played absolutely straight, which is really very challenging. A commonly played tune which is rarely played well. I quite like this rendition here . . . seems to have been videoed during a casual session by a bystander. Hello Francis I think that might be an oversimpification. Stewart Hardy with his years of top notch tuition experience would say that all things (especially speed) being equal dotted rhythms are harder. What we have here is a reduction of speed from the typical rant speed of 96 bpm to a hornpipe at 76 bpm. As you say it is OK but even at that speed he loses his rhythm when it comes to the top As which should be dotted quavers but come out as quick flicks. My first realisation that rants were almost as dotted as hornpipes but 25% faster came at Archie Bertram's when they all played Roxburgh and Hesleyside with almost hornpipe lilt but at a speed which left me floundering. It wasn't the normal straight reel speed of 106 bpm which isn't easy but for me certainly a bit easier that the rant rhythm at 96 bpm. I wondering if other players on the list find the rant speed rhythm a challenge? As for other comments I think you are spot on. Warmest best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
Hello Anthony, I don't think we disagree. At Stuart Hardy's musical altitude, I'm sure you're right. That's a level I can only admire but never approach. On a more basic level, playing the tune with a dotted rhythm will get you through in a far less exposed manner than playing straight, which would seem to be an ability to acquire before refining the playing to a more regionally idiomatic expertise. I was fairly OK with the present example because it was reasonably musical and enjoyable . . . and goodness knows, anyway, how long he'd been playing at that booth and under what circumstances. I was harsher on the second YouTube example which was a staged affair as well as being a musical assault. I wondering if other players on the list find the rant speed rhythm a challenge? Well, yes, it is. Good examples are always welcome! All the best, Francis On 30 Jun 2011, at 11:50, Anthony Robb wrote: -- On Thu, 30/6/11, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: It's a lot easier to play Roxborough Castle in dotted rhythm, as is done here. I prefer it played absolutely straight, which is really very challenging. A commonly played tune which is rarely played well. I quite like this rendition here . . . seems to have been videoed during a casual session by a bystander. Hello Francis I think that might be an oversimpification. Stewart Hardy with his years of top notch tuition experience would say that all things (especially speed) being equal dotted rhythms are harder. What we have here is a reduction of speed from the typical rant speed of 96 bpm to a hornpipe at 76 bpm. As you say it is OK but even at that speed he loses his rhythm when it comes to the top As which should be dotted quavers but come out as quick flicks. My first realisation that rants were almost as dotted as hornpipes but 25% faster came at Archie Bertram's when they all played Roxburgh and Hesleyside with almost hornpipe lilt but at a speed which left me floundering. It wasn't the normal straight reel speed of 106 bpm which isn't easy but for me certainly a bit easier that the rant rhythm at 96 bpm. I wondering if other players on the list find the rant speed rhythm a challenge? As for other comments I think you are spot on. Warmest best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
I'll tell you what worries me. Don't they listen/watch what they are posting for the public? If they don't, why not? If they do, why don't they notice that things are wrong? This guy can obviously play the thing - including the regulators which are tricky at the best of times. I'm guessing it's the X factor syndrome. (The total inability to hear how rubbish YOU are but able to hear exactly how bad everyone else is). I can understand someone learning an instrument in isolation and so not knowing how it should sound but there's plenty of stuff available to compare with these days. Why don't people hear oh, mine doesn't sound like that - especially on a recording. More importantly, why don't they just admit I'm not good enough to go public. Mind you,it's nice to know that there are others as bad as you around :) Colin Hill On 30/06/2011 10:25, Richard York wrote: True 'nuff! :) On 30/06/2011 10:20, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: ... Could have done another take? C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11671SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3733 - Release Date: 06/29/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3735 - Release Date: 06/30/11
[NSP] Re: tin ear man
True enough, John. I hope as many pipers as possible will be encouraged to share their performances without fear of getting the Simon Cowal treatment. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Gibbons, John [1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: One out of 2 isn't bad - led to a discussion on the right speed and rhythm for a rant. The only major quibble with the Carlisle one was the slurred snaps where everyone else would prefer the high notes staccato. Being polite about the other one is harder, though telling him to tune the drones and play slower is constructive at least - but as for praise, ' Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. ' Thumper said much the same... John From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of John Dally [[4]dir...@gmail.com] Sent: 30 June 2011 17:23 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: tin ear man Even though I think all the comments on the youtube videos that I volunteered to go over the top in the first wave are all correct and useful, I had hoped the spirit of the thing would be more encouraging. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing videos from all those who have chimed in so far. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:42 AM, [1][5]smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: on another posting to youtube he is playing the gaita(sp) and sounds better(ish) To get on or off this list see list information at [2][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[7]smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk 2. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:dir...@gmail.com 5. mailto:smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[no subject]
--- On Thu, 30/6/11, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello Anthony, I don't think we disagree. At Stuart Hardy's musical altitude, I'm sure you're right. That's a level I can only admire but never approach. On a more basic level, playing the tune with a dotted rhythm will get you through in a far less exposed manner than playing straight, which would seem to be an ability to acquire before refining the playing to a more regionally idiomatic expertise. Hello Francis I'm still not sure I can agree completely. I've taught lots now myself (more or less regularly since 1976 and mostly beginners/youngsters) - probably in the region of 3500 pupil-hours and found that (hornpipes aside - which are slowish anyway) people get get away with jigs and reels played steady and straight but as soon as we try and dot/lilt them they fall away after a bar or two.This is especially true of (even) slowish jigs. I used to take the approach you outline; get them playing evenly and steadily and then put the regional (some would say the all important) accent in afterwards but getting people to feel a good lilt and use it consistently after having spent months mastering the straight version has proved very difficult indeed. In recent years I've tried to get the lilt in from the off so that even if fingers aren't responding the brain would be taking something in and it seems to work better. Of course the old guys would never hear the straight version in the first place and they have the steadiest pace and control I've ever heard. Scottish and Irish bands were popular in Northumberland but when the old guys swiped their tunes they used their own accent to play them. Sadly that distinctive accent is all too rare these days and it would be great to see more pipers from this area taking it on. The problem is how best to achieve it - which ever way we tackle it results are a long time coming. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re:
Anthony, Francis and all, I've just tried playing Hesleyside and Roxburgh Castle at rant speed, but with hornpipey dotting, and found it very educational, and potentially very musical too. There is a rightness about playing them that way which is very convincing. But they need more work Perhaps all those years of playing them square need undoing first. Something for the Calthorpe session on Wednesday, I think! John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 30 June 2011 20:09 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello Anthony, I don't think we disagree. At Stuart Hardy's musical altitude, I'm sure you're right. That's a level I can only admire but never approach. On a more basic level, playing the tune with a dotted rhythm will get you through in a far less exposed manner than playing straight, which would seem to be an ability to acquire before refining the playing to a more regionally idiomatic expertise. Hello Francis I'm still not sure I can agree completely. I've taught lots now myself (more or less regularly since 1976 and mostly beginners/youngsters) - probably in the region of 3500 pupil-hours and found that (hornpipes aside - which are slowish anyway) people get get away with jigs and reels played steady and straight but as soon as we try and dot/lilt them they fall away after a bar or two.This is especially true of (even) slowish jigs. I used to take the approach you outline; get them playing evenly and steadily and then put the regional (some would say the all important) accent in afterwards but getting people to feel a good lilt and use it consistently after having spent months mastering the straight version has proved very difficult indeed. In recent years I've tried to get the lilt in from the off so that even if fingers aren't responding the brain would be taking something in and it seems to work better. Of course the old guys would never hear the straight version in the first place and they have the steadiest pace and control I've ever heard. Scottish and Irish bands were popular in Northumberland but when the old guys swiped their tunes they used their own accent to play them. Sadly that distinctive accent is all too rare these days and it would be great to see more pipers from this area taking it on. The problem is how best to achieve it - which ever way we tackle it results are a long time coming. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tin ear man
Fortunately I don't suffer from X Factor syndrome so won't be posting anything myself. :) Colin Hill On 30/06/2011 17:23, John Dally wrote: Even though I think all the comments on the youtube videos that I volunteered to go over the top in the first wave are all correct and useful, I had hoped the spirit of the thing would be more encouraging. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing videos from all those who have chimed in so far. On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:42 AM,[1]smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: on another posting to youtube he is playing the gaita(sp) and sounds better(ish) To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3735 - Release Date: 06/30/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3735 - Release Date: 06/30/11
