Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote:

> Dear Jean-Pierre,
> 
> I started preparing some examples, but first a quick question: Where  
> can I find out the exact behaviour of a command option like aNote.
> 
> If you define a \cNote with \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] as in your  
> example, then the input line
> 
> Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque
> 
> prints laboribus in the text and as the lemma! I cannot see where this is
> defined (and explained).

To get an overview of linenotes, see:

https://www.contextgarden.net/Command/_linenote
https://www.contextgarden.net/Command/setuplinenote

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Re: [NTG-context] paragraph notes when located in text

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

AMHO, there is no text with dorecurse … Then the buffer is empty ! And if I 
remember the buffer setup should be placed before the starttext command. Am I 
wrong ?

> Le 4 janv. 2022 à 19:23, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context  
> a écrit :
> 
> Dear list,
> 
> I have the following sample:
> 
>\setuppapersize[A6]
>\showframe\showgrid
>\setupnote[footnote][paragraph=yes]
>%~ \setupnote[footnote][location=text, paragraph=yes]
>\setupnotation[footnote][alternative=serried, width=broad]
>\starttext
>\startbuffer
>\startlinenumbering[step=3]
>\dorecurse{25}
> {a\footnote{b} }
>\stoplinenumbering
>\stopbuffer
> 
>\getbuffer
> \placenotes[footnote]
>\stoptext
> 
> I get no paragraph notes with \setupnote[footnote][location=text,
> paragraph=yes].
> 
> What am I missing here?
> 
> Many thanks for your help,
> 
> Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

The starting point of the discussion on reledmac and other related points, has 
begun on May 13, 2016. See here about the way to get a ConTeXt equivalent to a 
LaTeX encoding : https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg81793.html 
 (I gave the 
LaTeX code).

For the question asked by Jürgen, as far as I know, you have to deal (and play) 
with setupnote, definenote AND setupline commands. Discussion is here : 
https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=ntg-context@ntg.nl=subject:%22Re%5C%3A+%5C%5BNTG%5C-context%5C%5D+TwoColumns+in+two+different+languages%2C+with+alternate+text+on+even+and+odd+page.%22=newest=1

> Le 5 janv. 2022 à 18:28, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
>  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Luigi & Pablo,
> I’ve thinking that Google translate may be provide some help. I’ll try it !
> 
>> Le 5 janv. 2022 à 17:13, luigi scarso via ntg-context > > a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
>> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote:
>> On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
>> > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
>> > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf 
>> > 
>> 
>> Luigi,
>> 
>> if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
>> that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.
>> 
>> yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now.  
>> It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib --
>> and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess.
>> But you can try with
>> $>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf 
>> and translate teitagged.txt  with google. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> luigi
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl  / 
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>> 
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>> ___
> 
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[hanneder--- via ntg-context]

Dear Jean-Pierre,

I started preparing some examples, but first a quick question: Where  
can I find out the exact behaviour of a command option like aNote.


If you define a \cNote with \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] as in your  
example, then the input line


Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque

prints laboribus in the text and as the lemma! I cannot see where this is
defined (and explained).





- Nachricht von Jean-Pierre Delange  -
  Datum: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:29:20 +0100
Von: Jean-Pierre Delange 
Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?
 An: ntg-context@ntg.nl
 Cc: hanne...@staff.uni-marburg.de



Dear Jürgen,

Would you mind to test the MWE sample I've given  
(ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.tex) whith a little bit more  
information inside - in order to test furthermore ? You can change  
the text, even the \dorecurse option, in order to see what simply  
works and what does not for your purpose. There is a difficulty I've  
tried to solve some years ago : when you get two parrallel texts  
(for example an Ancient Greek text on odd page, and its translation  
on the even page) the solution seem to be in 'stream' to get a side  
by side text on different pages. If you try to do a two columns with  
separate texts - greek and its translation in my example - on the  
same page, it is working for the first page, but doesn't work for  
the following pages, that's why the 'stream' option seems a better  
way (see here :  
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Examples_of_MkIV_streams).



Le 05/01/2022 à 12:52, hanneder--- via ntg-context a écrit :


Dear critical edition experts,

the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and  
the other posts are really
answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if  
there were a Wiki on critical
editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If  
anything else is planned by the

experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know.

As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is  
needed, but since the topic is

being discussed -

I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for  
critical editions, for the following reasons:
1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no  
sense in 2022. This is not sustainable because
no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on  
it. You have to provide a digital edition as research data.
2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is  
sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with  
various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard.


I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the  
first question is: Is a pdf more
sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will  
tell, I guess. The same applies
to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been  
edited by that method yet (in my
field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be  
finished, when the project
ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and  
XML-based say that the latter

significantly slows down the collation process.

At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone  
is talking about online
editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience  
it is not up to these
expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was  
almost lost, since there is no institutional
funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an  
online edition can be (and is in our
case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in  
the last centuries, possibly
additional online edition with a shorter life span and online  
publication of research data. This
sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the  
collation file, that is, the TeX-input
file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by  
ekdosis, and that's it. The mss
scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right  
(no Indian institution will grant

any rights).

Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new  
possibilities. I was part of an online
dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and  
everything else, but after the
threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the  
dictionary), I have to finance
occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that  
no further funding for this
project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great  
hopes for a continuation of my
post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough  
nerds who can and will do

the necessary work privately, we are safe.

3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format:  
it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in  
2 (or 5 or 50) years.


Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its 

Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Hi Luigi & Pablo,
I’ve thinking that Google translate may be provide some help. I’ll try it !

> Le 5 janv. 2022 à 17:13, luigi scarso via ntg-context  a 
> écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote:
> On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> > [...]
> > quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
> > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
> > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf 
> > 
> 
> Luigi,
> 
> if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
> that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.
> 
> yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now.  
> It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib --
> and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess.
> But you can try with
> $>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf 
> and translate teitagged.txt  with google. 
> 
> -- 
> luigi
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
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> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[luigi scarso via ntg-context]

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> > [...]
> > quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
> > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
> > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf
>
> Luigi,
>
> if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
> that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.
>

yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now.
It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib --
and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess.
But you can try with
$>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf
and translate teitagged.txt  with google.

-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Am 05.01.22 um 12:54 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:

On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:

[...]
quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf


Luigi,

if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.

I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group
Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/).


I’m happy to receive articles for the journal!

And after all these years a talk/presentation on that matter would be 
great for the upcoming ConTeXt meeting!


Hraban (who is responsible for both)
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Re: [NTG-context] STIX2 font issues with freshly installed LMTX

[Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context]

Hi there

Issue solved by deleting the context-internal fonts and recurring on the 
system-wide installed fonts … never mind ;-)

 


Happy New Year
Heinrich

> 
>> On 3 Jan 2022, at 21:46, Heinrich Paeßens > > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi there
>>> 
>>> as a newcomer in ConTeXt I installed according to 
>>> 
>>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installing_ConTeXt_LMTX_on_MacOS/ 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> and using TeXShop on macos as advised.
>>> 
>>> However, I like to use STIX2-Fonts for Text and Math and hence my MWE to 
>>> test which fonts are going to be embedded (CLI pdffonts):
>>> 
>>> -
>>> \setupbodyfont[stixtwo]
>>> \starttext
>>> 
>>> Test ß 1lIjJuQ \% § \& ?! VERSAL-ẞ- \|> --- 1234567890 --- //
>>> 
>>> \placeformula[eqn:def-m]
>>> \startformula
>>> m = \frac{m_0}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}
>>> \stopformula
>>> \stoptext
>>> -
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately the compiler throws an error — why is there a check of 
>>> STIX2-fonts versions, why is that important?
>>> 
>>> I checked and found 
>>> 
>>> /Users/hp/Library/Fonts/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf Version 2.12 b168
>>> /Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/stix2-otf/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf
>>>  Version 2.11 b159
>>> 
>>> Could you please advise for a work around?
>>> 
>>> from the log:
>>> 
>>> -
>>> fonts   > otf loading > loading 'stixtwotext-regular.otf', hash 
>>> 'stixtwotext-regular'
>>> otf reader  > unknown version '
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ' in file 'stixtwotext-regular.otf'
>>> fonts   > otf loading > loading done
>>> fonts   > otf loading > saving 'stixtwotext-regular.otf' in cache
>>> system  > lua > compiling 
>>> '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma'
>>>  into 
>>> '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd'
>>> system  > lua > dumping 
>>> '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma'
>>>  into 
>>> '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd'
>>>  stripped
>>> fonts   > otf loading > loading, optimizing, packing and caching 
>>> time 0.002
>>> lua error   > lua error on line 1 in file ./Untitled.tex:
>>> 
>>> registered function call [1129]: 
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: attempt to 
>>> index a nil value (upvalue 'descriptions')
>>> stack traceback:
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: in 
>>> local 'prepare_ligature'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:770: in 
>>> upvalue 'addfeature'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:899: in 
>>> local 'enhancer'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1269: in 
>>> upvalue 'enhance'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1291: in 
>>> field 'apply'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:263: in 
>>> field 'load'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:602: in 
>>> upvalue 'otftotfm'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:630: in 
>>> function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:629>
>>> (...tail calls...)
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:378: in 
>>> function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:366>
>>> (...tail calls...)
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:484: in 
>>> field 'read'
>>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1336: in 
>>> function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1193>
>>> (...tail calls...)
>>>  1 >>  \setupbodyfont[stixtwo]
>>> -
>>> 
>>> Many thanks for your support.
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Heinrich Paeßens 
>>> Mobile +49 1512 123 9876 
>>> Business Card 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

I've found in NTG archives a discussion on XML analysis tool, which make 
me feel like a soldier who wants to fight after the battle ! ... 5 years 
ago


See here : 
https://ntg-context.ntg.narkive.com/HAES9QLP/tei-to-context-xml-mappings


So, the question is (I don't want to start some troll, I am just 
considering the fact) : why the wiki documentation on the topic (TEI-XML 
with ConTeXt) is so thin ? I'm sure that we can feed this page ...


Le 05/01/2022 à 13:34, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context a écrit :

Pablo and Luigi,

Or simply add this paper to the bibliographical survey at the end of 
the wiki page made by Thomas ?


https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml


Le 05/01/2022 à 12:54, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit :

On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:

[...]
quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf

Luigi,

if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.

I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group
Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/).

Pablo
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--
Jean-Pierre Delange
Agrégé de philosophie
Ancients
"Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of 
ideas" - Lord Acton

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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Pablo and Luigi,

Or simply add this paper to the bibliographical survey at the end of the 
wiki page made by Thomas ?


https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml


Le 05/01/2022 à 12:54, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit :

On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:

[...]
quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf

Luigi,

if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.

I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group
Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/).

Pablo
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--
Jean-Pierre Delange
Agrégé de philosophie
Ancients
"Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of 
ideas" - Lord Acton

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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Dear Jürgen,

Would you mind to test the MWE sample I've given 
(ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.tex) whith a little bit more 
information inside - in order to test furthermore ? You can change the 
text, even the \dorecurse option, in order to see what simply works and 
what does not for your purpose. There is a difficulty I've tried to 
solve some years ago : when you get two parrallel texts (for example an 
Ancient Greek text on odd page, and its translation on the even page) 
the solution seem to be in 'stream' to get a side by side text on 
different pages. If you try to do a two columns with separate texts - 
greek and its translation in my example - on the same page, it is 
working for the first page, but doesn't work for the following pages, 
that's why the 'stream' option seems a better way (see here : 
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Examples_of_MkIV_streams).



Le 05/01/2022 à 12:52, hanneder--- via ntg-context a écrit :


Dear critical edition experts,

the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and 
the other posts are really
answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if 
there were a Wiki on critical
editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If 
anything else is planned by the

experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know.

As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is 
needed, but since the topic is

being discussed -

I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for 
critical editions, for the following reasons:
1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense 
in 2022. This is not sustainable because
no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. 
You have to provide a digital edition as research data.
2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is 
sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with 
various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard.


I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the first 
question is: Is a pdf more
sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will 
tell, I guess. The same applies
to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been 
edited by that method yet (in my
field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be 
finished, when the project
ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based 
say that the latter

significantly slows down the collation process.

At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone is 
talking about online
editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience it 
is not up to these
expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was almost 
lost, since there is no institutional
funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an online 
edition can be (and is in our
case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in the 
last centuries, possibly
additional online edition with a shorter life span and online 
publication of research data. This
sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the collation 
file, that is, the TeX-input
file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by 
ekdosis, and that's it. The mss
scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right (no 
Indian institution will grant

any rights).

Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new possibilities. 
I was part of an online
dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and 
everything else, but after the
threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the 
dictionary), I have to finance
occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that no 
further funding for this
project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes 
for a continuation of my
post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough 
nerds who can and will do

the necessary work privately, we are safe.

3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: it 
is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2 (or 
5 or 50) years.


Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its possibilities 
and have started to use it as the default.



4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml.
Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in TEI 
xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to process it.


I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let ekdosis 
do the conversion,
if necessary. But in publication practice in my field, most of this is 
just for private
entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word file, so the 
tool of choice
is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. Sorry to end on this 
depressing note.

Best
Jürgen



---

Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder
Philipps-Universitaet Marburg
FG Indologie u. 

Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> [...]
> quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
> embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
> https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf

Luigi,

if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of
that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us.

I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group
Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/).

Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[hanneder--- via ntg-context]

Dear critical edition experts,

the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and  
the other posts are really
answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if  
there were a Wiki on critical
editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If  
anything else is planned by the

experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know.

As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is  
needed, but since the topic is

being discussed -

I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for  
critical editions, for the following reasons:
1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense  
in 2022. This is not sustainable because
no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it.  
You have to provide a digital edition as research data.
2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is  
sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with  
various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard.


I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the first  
question is: Is a pdf more
sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will  
tell, I guess. The same applies
to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been  
edited by that method yet (in my
field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be  
finished, when the project
ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based  
say that the latter

significantly slows down the collation process.

At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone is  
talking about online
editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience it  
is not up to these
expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was almost  
lost, since there is no institutional
funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an online  
edition can be (and is in our
case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in the  
last centuries, possibly
additional online edition with a shorter life span and online  
publication of research data. This
sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the collation  
file, that is, the TeX-input
file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by  
ekdosis, and that's it. The mss
scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right (no  
Indian institution will grant

any rights).

Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new possibilities.  
I was part of an online
dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and  
everything else, but after the
threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the  
dictionary), I have to finance
occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that no  
further funding for this
project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes  
for a continuation of my
post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough  
nerds who can and will do

the necessary work privately, we are safe.

3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format:  
it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2  
(or 5 or 50) years.


Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its possibilities  
and have started to use it as the default.



4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml.
Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in  
TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to  
process it.


I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let ekdosis  
do the conversion,
if necessary. But in publication practice in my field, most of this is  
just for private
entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word file, so the  
tool of choice

is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. Sorry to end on this depressing note.
Best
Jürgen



---

Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder
Philipps-Universitaet Marburg
FG Indologie u. Tibetologie
Deutschhausstr.12
35032 Marburg
Germany
Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930
hanne...@staff.uni-marburg.de

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[NTG-context] Seperate footnotereference and footnotenumber if necessary

[Huseyin Özoguz via ntg-context]

Hello dear list,

I work with grids and in many cases a footnote on one of the last lines 
forces and too early page break.


See this min-example:

\setuplayout[grid=yes]
\showgrid
\starttext
\dorecurse{40}{Word.\\}
Word.\footnote{Footnote}
\stoptext % Lines 41 on page 1 is empty

It preserves the footnote and the reference on the same (next) page, but 
the not full lines because of early pagebreak are inacceptable in my cases.


What I do as a workaround: I seperate the footnote and the reference 
with \note[] and \footnotetext[]{} – but that is not ideal in a 
developing and changing document.


Is there some automatic method to allow the footnote to set on the next 
page if otherwise the pagebreak would leave one or more lines at the 
buttom empty? Maybe some penalty for empty lines or something else?


Thank you.
Huseyin

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[NTG-context] paragraph notes when located in text

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

Dear list,

I have the following sample:

\setuppapersize[A6]
\showframe\showgrid
\setupnote[footnote][paragraph=yes]
%~ \setupnote[footnote][location=text, paragraph=yes]
\setupnotation[footnote][alternative=serried, width=broad]
\starttext
\startbuffer
\startlinenumbering[step=3]
\dorecurse{25}
 {a\footnote{b} }
\stoplinenumbering
\stopbuffer

\getbuffer
 \placenotes[footnote]
\stoptext

I get no paragraph notes with \setupnote[footnote][location=text,
paragraph=yes].

What am I missing here?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] issue with \placenotes[linenote]

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 1/4/22 5:09 PM, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 1/4/2022 2:23 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>> [...]
>> I cannot compile it. ConTeXt complains about "\placenotes[linenote]"
>> being undefined.
>>
> can you check with

I’m afraid I get the following error message:

  tex error   > tex error on line 11 in file a.tex: Undefined
   control sequence \p_linenotes_compressmethod

Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Thank you Luigi !

"Quite old" doesn't matter. The date of the wiki page from Thomas is 
2010... And my own contribution to first steps with ConTeXt (in French 
and not for mathematics) through a Wikibook is no more valuable, full of 
errors and obsolete on many aspects 
(https://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/ConTeXt) !


As Garulfo made a quite good job last year with his own contribution 
(https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context/tree/main/), 
it may be useful to produce a kind of "howto" with TEI-XML and LMTX-CTX.


I propose that at first time, any volunteer gather documentation on 
TEI-XML with ConTeXt to feed the wiki page on this topic, with in mind a 
real case of their choice (which may be a real academic case or an issue 
of their choice), not too tricky - or too far away of the common use, 
even if, by itself, the issues encountered in academic edition in 
humanities (or TEI-XML edition) are ... tricky and/or not very usual 
(because not it is not everybody who try to edit the work of Romanos the 
Melodist, or sanskrit poetry !).


As I saw that Thomas A. Schmitz was time to time an editor of Second 
Sophistic authors (among other things like French Renaissance poets), 
and few others Context users use to deal with CTX in order to publish 
ancients texts/poetry (like Pablo ...), I propose in a second time a 
general discussion on the topic, with in mind : What are the needs ? and 
what it is necessary to achieve at first and how ?


Thank you to share your views.

JP

Le 05/01/2022 à 09:43, luigi scarso a écrit :



On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:00 AM Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
 wrote:


Thomas,
Even if I am an occasional user of CTX (mainly class courses for
beginners and sophomore or by trying to write samples of what it
is possible to achieve with it), and if I think I am aware about
what can do CTX or what it cannot do, I didn't know that you wrote
a  wiki page on TEI-XML with ConTeXt : even if I am interested by
clever printing and issues with multi-languages texts topics, I
ignored your precious piece of work. I was interested by the
questions of Pr. Jürgen Hanneder, because even if I don't know a
word of Sanskrit,  it is allways a true pain to begin with
technical requisits when your real job is to think about the
problematic meaning of ancients or less ancients texts. You
precise clearly what I think about University mores, and J.
Hanneder tell us his problems, which all of us know.
There are, for people who are working on Ancient Greek, Latin,
Middle Age texts or Sanskrit (or whatever) some commercial tools
which seem do the work : but technical efficiency asks allways
money. I know of a company that works for a publisher, whose
service is to code some Perl with text formatted in LaTeX and XML,
in order to produce a display on screen and a printout on paper,
until the page which presents the cover of the book and the
summary of the contents, as well as its ISBN code, its price and
the quantity of books in stock.

quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf

--
luigi


--
Jean-Pierre Delange
Agrégé de philosophie
Ancients
"Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of 
ideas" - Lord Acton
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[luigi scarso via ntg-context]

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:00 AM Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> Thomas,
> Even if I am an occasional user of CTX (mainly class courses for beginners
> and sophomore or by trying to write samples of what it is possible to
> achieve with it), and if I think I am aware about what can do CTX or what
> it cannot do, I didn't know that you wrote a  wiki page on TEI-XML with
> ConTeXt : even if I am interested by clever printing and issues with
> multi-languages texts topics, I ignored your precious piece of work. I was
> interested by the questions of Pr. Jürgen Hanneder, because even if I don't
> know a word of Sanskrit,  it is allways a true pain to begin with technical
> requisits when your real job is to think about the problematic meaning of
> ancients or less ancients texts. You precise clearly what I think about
> University mores, and J. Hanneder tell us his problems, which all of us
> know.
> There are, for people who are working on Ancient Greek, Latin, Middle Age
> texts or Sanskrit (or whatever) some commercial tools which seem do the
> work : but technical efficiency asks allways money.  I know of a company
> that works for a publisher, whose service is to code some Perl with text
> formatted in LaTeX and XML, in order to produce a display on screen and a
> printout on paper, until the page which presents the cover of the book and
> the summary of the contents, as well as its ISBN code, its price and the
> quantity of books in stock.
>
quite old (2014),  but perhaps still interesting:
embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf
https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf

-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] context manuals -- absence of \definefontfamily

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/4/2022 11:07 PM, Arthur Rosendahl wrote:

On Mon, Jan 03, 2022 at 11:16:46PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:

Because Wolfgang has to write a chapter (or a MyWay document) and we're all
mostly volunteers so ...


   Youssef has got a point, though: \definefontfamily should perhaps be
given a tiny bit better treatment on the wiki.  I agree with him that
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Use_the_fonts_you_want seems like the
best place to mention it, and even think that all of the last section
could be rewritten using \definefontfamily instead of a typescript
definition (which can be moved elsewhere, it obviously doesn’t need to
be deleted from the wiki entirely).  But I wouldn’t like to disturb the
good work that Garulfo did when he overhauled the wiki, hence if you’re
around, Garulfo, perhaps you could comment on that?

a note:

basically we have 3 ways to define a font (collection):

- selectfont: works find when fonts have 'correct' names and come in 
consistent 'sets' (which is not always the case)


- typescripts: for long term stable style usage this is best because one 
uses filenames and can even rename font files then so that updates don't 
clash (typescripts can be in styles or in separate files)


- single font: for specific usage, like special fonts or titling; 
definition by name or file or spec but probably most oiften by file 
(just to be sure); although one can use abstraction by name this methoid 
is not used for collections


mechanisms like fallbacks work for all but may need additional definitions

design siszes can complicate matters but there are no many

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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