Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[Youssef Cherem via ntg-context]

Is it just your example, or do you really just want those ligatures?

fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 12:33 skrev J. P. Ascher via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl>:

> Hi, all,
>
> I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank you
> all, very much, for your excellent work and superb community.
> ConTeXt has become a critical part of my academic writing and integral
> to my research.  I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed how
> I thought about texts and became a major source for my dissertation
> work.  Thank you!
>
> I'm trying to get a typescript for setting a text in Libertine with
> Junicode fallbacks for characters in MUFI, in the private use area.
> For some reason Libertine roman will not fallback no matter what
> I do. However Libertine italic will.  I can also work around it by using
> Junicode as a base and forcing fallback to Libertine.
>
> My question is: why?  What's wrong with Libertine roman?  Or my approach?
>
> My hypothesis is that there's something about `LinLibertine_R.otf`
> that's not quite right.  I looked in FontForge, but couldn't
> spot anything.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to another place to look?  Or something
> I'm overlooking?
>
> Minimal example (attached too, if it comes through):
>
> ```
> \definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn]
>
>
> % Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun
>
>
> \definefontfallback[junicodefallback][name:Junicode][privateusearea][check=yes,force=no]
>
> \starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun]
>   \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Roman] [file:linlibertiner]
>   \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Slanted]  [file:linlibertineri]  % works
> fine
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [name]
>   \definefontsynonym [Serif][Libertine-Roman]
>  [features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted] [Libertine-Slanted]
> [features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [lib-fb-jun]
>   \definetypeface [lib-fb-jun] [rm] [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [default]
> \stoptypescript
>
>
> % Junicode with Libertine as a fallback, preferring Libertine, jun-pr-lib
> % this hack does what I want the above to do
>
>
> \definefontfallback[preferlibertine][name:linlibertineo][0-F][check=yes,force=yes]
>
> \starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib]
>\definefontsynonym [JunicodeRoman] [name:Junicode]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib] [name]
>\definefontsynonym [Serif] [JunicodeRoman] [fallbacks=preferlibertine]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [jun-pr-lib]
>   \definetypeface [jun-pr-lib] [rm] [serif] [jun-pr-lib] [default]
> \stoptypescript
>
>
> % some tracking stuff
>
> \enabletrackers[fonts.missing=replace]
> \enabledirectives[logs.errors]
>
>
> % text, we use lib-fb-jun first, then jun-pr-lib
>
> \starttext
> \setupbodyfont[lib-fb-jun]
>
> {\em emph. lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three
> glyphs)}
>
> lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)  % <-
> fallback fails here
>
> \switchtobodyfont[jun-pr-lib]
>
> jun-pr-lib: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs) % <-
> works
>
> \stoptext
> ```
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Most warmly,
> -jp
>
> --
> J. P. Ascher
> Preceding: https://doi.org/10.18130/jqpe-zc65
> Current: http://www.bibsoc.org.uk/content/2020-2021-0
>
>
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[NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[J . P . Ascher via ntg-context]

Hi, all,

I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank you
all, very much, for your excellent work and superb community.
ConTeXt has become a critical part of my academic writing and integral
to my research.  I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed how
I thought about texts and became a major source for my dissertation
work.  Thank you!

I'm trying to get a typescript for setting a text in Libertine with
Junicode fallbacks for characters in MUFI, in the private use area.
For some reason Libertine roman will not fallback no matter what
I do. However Libertine italic will.  I can also work around it by using
Junicode as a base and forcing fallback to Libertine.

My question is: why?  What's wrong with Libertine roman?  Or my approach?

My hypothesis is that there's something about `LinLibertine_R.otf`
that's not quite right.  I looked in FontForge, but couldn't
spot anything.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to another place to look?  Or something
I'm overlooking?

Minimal example (attached too, if it comes through):

```
\definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn]


% Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun

\definefontfallback[junicodefallback][name:Junicode][privateusearea][check=yes,force=no]

\starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun]
  \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Roman] [file:linlibertiner]
  \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Slanted]  [file:linlibertineri]  % works fine
\stoptypescript
 
\starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [name]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif][Libertine-Roman]   
[features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted] [Libertine-Slanted] 
[features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
\stoptypescript
 
\starttypescript [lib-fb-jun]
  \definetypeface [lib-fb-jun] [rm] [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [default]
\stoptypescript


% Junicode with Libertine as a fallback, preferring Libertine, jun-pr-lib
% this hack does what I want the above to do

\definefontfallback[preferlibertine][name:linlibertineo][0-F][check=yes,force=yes]

\starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib]
   \definefontsynonym [JunicodeRoman] [name:Junicode]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib] [name]
   \definefontsynonym [Serif] [JunicodeRoman] [fallbacks=preferlibertine]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [jun-pr-lib]
  \definetypeface [jun-pr-lib] [rm] [serif] [jun-pr-lib] [default]
\stoptypescript


% some tracking stuff

\enabletrackers[fonts.missing=replace]
\enabledirectives[logs.errors]


% text, we use lib-fb-jun first, then jun-pr-lib

\starttext
\setupbodyfont[lib-fb-jun]

{\em emph. lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)}

lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)  % <- 
fallback fails here

\switchtobodyfont[jun-pr-lib]

jun-pr-lib: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs) % <- works

\stoptext
```

Any ideas?

Most warmly,
-jp

-- 
J. P. Ascher
Preceding: https://doi.org/10.18130/jqpe-zc65
Current: http://www.bibsoc.org.uk/content/2020-2021-0



min.log
Description: Binary data


min.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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Description: TeX document
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/7/2022 4:18 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:

Hi, all,

I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank you
all, very much, for your excellent work and superb community.
ConTeXt has become a critical part of my academic writing and integral
to my research.  I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed how
I thought about texts and became a major source for my dissertation
work.  Thank you!

I'm trying to get a typescript for setting a text in Libertine with
Junicode fallbacks for characters in MUFI, in the private use area.
For some reason Libertine roman will not fallback no matter what
I do. However Libertine italic will.  I can also work around it by using
Junicode as a base and forcing fallback to Libertine.

My question is: why?  What's wrong with Libertine roman?  Or my approach?

My hypothesis is that there's something about `LinLibertine_R.otf`
that's not quite right.  I looked in FontForge, but couldn't
spot anything.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to another place to look?  Or something
I'm overlooking?

Minimal example (attached too, if it comes through):

```
\definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn]


% Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun

\definefontfallback[junicodefallback][name:Junicode][privateusearea][check=yes,force=no]

\starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun]
   \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Roman] [file:linlibertiner]
   \definefontsynonym [Libertine-Slanted]  [file:linlibertineri]  % works fine
\stoptypescript
  
\starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [name]

   \definefontsynonym [Serif][Libertine-Roman]   
[features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted] [Libertine-Slanted] 
[features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
\stoptypescript
  
\starttypescript [lib-fb-jun]

   \definetypeface [lib-fb-jun] [rm] [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [default]
\stoptypescript


% Junicode with Libertine as a fallback, preferring Libertine, jun-pr-lib
% this hack does what I want the above to do

\definefontfallback[preferlibertine][name:linlibertineo][0-F][check=yes,force=yes]

\starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib]
\definefontsynonym [JunicodeRoman] [name:Junicode]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib] [name]
\definefontsynonym [Serif] [JunicodeRoman] [fallbacks=preferlibertine]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [jun-pr-lib]
   \definetypeface [jun-pr-lib] [rm] [serif] [jun-pr-lib] [default]
\stoptypescript


% some tracking stuff

\enabletrackers[fonts.missing=replace]
\enabledirectives[logs.errors]


% text, we use lib-fb-jun first, then jun-pr-lib

\starttext
\setupbodyfont[lib-fb-jun]

{\em emph. lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)}

lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)  % <- 
fallback fails here

\switchtobodyfont[jun-pr-lib]

jun-pr-lib: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs) % <- works

\stoptext
```

Any ideas?
when you use a complex font (in this case with lots of ligatures) doing 
a fallback can interfere with these features especially when they have 
been put in the private areas which are basically 'undefined'


you're accessing an st ligature directly but normally you will do that 
by enabling a font feature


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[hanneder--- via ntg-context]

Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar.
As I indicated, there are mostly no  budgets for book typesetting in  
Indology and
I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other  
words, the authors
have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc.  
Our publications
series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with  
LaTeX, as are my publications
with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in  
Germany. There is no institution
offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no  
commercial interest in it and I
think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts  
are used instead of transliteration).


Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use  
TeX internally, which is convenient,
but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation,  
frustrating in a way, but it also
gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own  
dilettantic designs).


Jürgen

I know one company in Leipzig that works for big publishers  
(www.le-tex.de). I talked to them a few years ago at a book fair and  
applied twice for their job offers (but they want people to work at  
their office).


For scientific publications they’re using a XML-to-LaTeX workflow,  
otherwise Word-based (->XML->LaTeX or ->InDesign). Of course they  
accept all kind of data; it looks like they’re really good in  
automated workflows.


But I guess there are strong competitors in the far east...

Hraban
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- Ende der Nachricht von Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context  
 -




---

Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder
Philipps-Universitaet Marburg
FG Indologie u. Tibetologie
Deutschhausstr.12
35032 Marburg
Germany
Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930
hanne...@staff.uni-marburg.de

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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/7/2022 4:18 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:


% Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun
looks like there is some beta junicode two (i tried the variable font 
but the ttf crashes (no hvar table) and the otf also has issues so 
probably a bit too beta) .. maybe that font will cover what libertine has?


- ttf variable : crash (probably due to missing hvar or invalid deltas)
- otf variable : issues
- otf normal   : crash on italic due to stem problem
- ttf normal   : seems to work

(it makes no sense to add all kind of sanity checks for fonts with issues)

the font has a fi ligature but not as feature so you need to add it:

\startluacode
fonts.handlers.otf.addfeature {
name = "xlig",
type = "ligature",
data = {
[64257] = { "f", "i" },
}
}
\stopluacode

\definefontfeature[default][default][xlig=yes,dlig=yes] % is dflt defined ?

\setupbodyfont[junicode]

\starttext

% fi ligature in \char 64257 but not in liga feature

 Ik fiets op de stoep en dat mag niet. \blank
{\it Ik fiets op de stoep en dat mag niet.}\blank
{\bf Ik fiets op de stoep en dat mag niet.}\blank
{\bi Ik fiets op de stoep en dat mag niet.}\blank
\stoptext

attached a possible typescript file (patched from ws 2011 version)

anyway ... these fonts are probably to beta to be useful now although 
one needs users like you to test them and feedback


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-%D \module
%D   [ file=type-junicode,
%D  version=2011.09.18,
%Dtitle=\CONTEXT\ Typescript Macros,
%D subtitle=Junicode Font Definitions,
%D   author=Wolfgang Schuster,
%D date=\currentdate,
%Dcopyright=Wolfgang Schuster,
%D  license=GNU General Public License]

% adapted by hh

\usetypescriptfile[texgyre]
\usetypescriptfile[dejavu]

\starttypescriptcollection [junicode]

% crash on data points / hvar inconsistency
%
% \definefontfeature[junicodebold][default]
%
% \definefontsynonym[junicoderegular][\s!file:junicodetwobetavf-roman.ttf]
% \definefontsynonym[junicodeitalic] [\s!file:junicodetwobetavf-italic.ttf]
%
% \starttypescript [\s!serif] [junicode]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Regular]
[junicoderegular][\s!features=default]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Italic] [junicodeitalic] 
[\s!features=default]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Bold]   
[junicoderegular][\s!features={default,junicodebold}]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-BoldItalic] [junicodeitalic] 
[\s!features={default,junicodebold}]
% \stoptypescript

% italic crashes on stems in cff
%
% \starttypescript [\s!serif] [junicode]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Regular]
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-regular.otf]   [\s!features=\s!default]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Italic] 
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-italic.otf][\s!features=\s!default]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-Bold]   
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-bold.otf]  [\s!features=\s!default]
% \definefontsynonym [Junicode-BoldItalic] 
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-bolditalic.otf][\s!features=\s!default]
% \stoptypescript

\starttypescript [\s!serif] [junicode]
\definefontsynonym [Junicode-Regular]
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-regular.ttf]   [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [Junicode-Italic] 
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-italic.ttf][\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [Junicode-Bold]   [\s!file:junicodetwobeta-bold.ttf] 
 [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [Junicode-BoldItalic] 
[\s!file:junicodetwobeta-bolditalic.ttf][\s!features=\s!default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [\s!serif] [junicode]
\setups[\s!font:\s!fallback:\s!serif]
\definefontsynonym [\s!Serif]   [Junicode-Regular]   
[\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [\s!SerifItalic] [Junicode-Italic]
[\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [\s!SerifBold]   [Junicode-Bold]  
[\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym [\s!SerifBoldItalic] 
[Junicode-BoldItalic][\s!features=\s!default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [junicode]
\definetypeface [junicode] [rm] [\s!serif] [junicode] [\s!default]
\definetypeface [junicode] [tt] [\s!mono]  [dejavu]   [\s!default]
\definetypeface [junicode] [mm] [\s!math]  [pagella]  [\s!default]
\quittypescriptscanning
\stoptypescript

\stoptypescriptcollection

\endinput
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/7/2022 6:25 PM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote:


Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar.
As I indicated, there are mostly no  budgets for book typesetting in 
Indology and
I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other words, 
the authors
have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. 
Our publications
series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with LaTeX, 
as are my publications
with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in 
Germany. There is no institution
offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no 
commercial interest in it and I
think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts are 
used instead of transliteration).


there was a time that publishers had some pride in offering low volume 
publications and paid for that by large volume succes stories ... but 
those were real publishers (persons, not companies)


Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use TeX 
internally, which is convenient,
but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, 
frustrating in a way, but it also
gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own 
dilettantic designs).

that brings me to the question:

  what do those who are independent from publishers really
  want in a typeseting system .. not bound by what a specific
  publisher with no real interest but profit demands

i'm often puzzled by the fact that in spite of what technology (and 
thereby tex) makes possible is not used to its full extend .. (my 
favourite exmaple: why go along the troublesome accessibility path 
instead of providing plenty variants that suit specific users and 
publish the sources so that those interested in it can do it ... 
interestingly easy audio inclusion was dropped from pdf instead of 
adding means to attach that to a stretch of text) .. i think publishers 
were never really interested in those things (no reserch lab anyway)


so ... what features would make *you* happy if you didn't have to take 
publishing (which doesn't happen) and tradition (imposed by those who 
don't publish your work anyway) into account but could produce the best 
for your reader


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions?

[luigi scarso via ntg-context]

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:25 PM hanneder--- via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

>
> Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar.
> As I indicated, there are mostly no  budgets for book typesetting in
> Indology and
> I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other
> words, the authors
> have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc.
> Our publications
> series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with
> LaTeX, as are my publications
> with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in
> Germany. There is no institution
> offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no
> commercial interest in it and I
> think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts
> are used instead of transliteration).
>
> Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use
> TeX internally, which is convenient,
> but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation,
> frustrating in a way, but it also
> gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own
> dilettantic designs).
>
> Jürgen
>

perhaps this can be interesting
https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/
(seen them at a context meeting years ago)


-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[J . P . Ascher via ntg-context]

Thanks for asking!

It's just my example.  I maintain JunicodeRX (...with Restoration
Typographical Extensions) which includes yet more non-standard code
points and which I continue to add to.  In my actual work, I also add in
Symbola for additional fallbacks.

Some fonts have better language coverage (Libertine) and others have
some custom glyphs I want (JunicodeRX and Symbola).  If I had a bit more
time, I suspect maintaining a stand-alone
Libertine+JunicodeRX+Symbola.otf would be the best approach, but that's
a bit beyond me these days.

On Fri, Jan 07 2022, 13:52:05 -03 Youssef Cherem  wrote:

> Is it just your example, or do you really just want those ligatures? 
>
> fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 12:33 skrev J. P. Ascher via ntg-context 
> :
>
>  Hi, all,
>
>  I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank you
>  all, very much, for your excellent work and superb community.
>  ConTeXt has become a critical part of my academic writing and integral
>  to my research.  I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed how
>  I thought about texts and became a major source for my dissertation
>  work.  Thank you!
>
>  I'm trying to get a typescript for setting a text in Libertine with
>  Junicode fallbacks for characters in MUFI, in the private use area.
>  For some reason Libertine roman will not fallback no matter what
>  I do. However Libertine italic will.  I can also work around it by using
>  Junicode as a base and forcing fallback to Libertine.
>
>  My question is: why?  What's wrong with Libertine roman?  Or my approach?
>
>  My hypothesis is that there's something about `LinLibertine_R.otf`
>  that's not quite right.  I looked in FontForge, but couldn't
>  spot anything.
>
>  Does anyone have a suggestion as to another place to look?  Or something
>  I'm overlooking?
>
>  Minimal example (attached too, if it comes through):
>
>  ```
>  \definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn]
>
>  % Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun
>
>  
> \definefontfallback[junicodefallback][name:Junicode][privateusearea][check=yes,force=no]
>
>  \starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun]
>\definefontsynonym [Libertine-Roman] [file:linlibertiner]
>\definefontsynonym [Libertine-Slanted]  [file:linlibertineri]  % works fine
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  \starttypescript [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [name]
>\definefontsynonym [Serif][Libertine-Roman]   
> [features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
>\definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted] [Libertine-Slanted] 
> [features=default,fallbacks=junicodefallback]
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  \starttypescript [lib-fb-jun]
>\definetypeface [lib-fb-jun] [rm] [serif] [lib-fb-jun] [default]
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  % Junicode with Libertine as a fallback, preferring Libertine, jun-pr-lib
>  % this hack does what I want the above to do
>
>  
> \definefontfallback[preferlibertine][name:linlibertineo][0-F][check=yes,force=yes]
>
>  \starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib]
> \definefontsynonym [JunicodeRoman] [name:Junicode]
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  \starttypescript[serif] [jun-pr-lib] [name]
> \definefontsynonym [Serif] [JunicodeRoman] [fallbacks=preferlibertine]
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  \starttypescript [jun-pr-lib]
>\definetypeface [jun-pr-lib] [rm] [serif] [jun-pr-lib] [default]
>  \stoptypescript
>
>  % some tracking stuff
>
>  \enabletrackers[fonts.missing=replace]
>  \enabledirectives[logs.errors]
>
>  % text, we use lib-fb-jun first, then jun-pr-lib
>
>  \starttext
>  \setupbodyfont[lib-fb-jun]
>
>  {\em emph. lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)}
>
>  lib-fb-jun: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs)  % <- 
> fallback fails here
>
>  \switchtobodyfont[jun-pr-lib]
>
>  jun-pr-lib: \Uchar61125 \char64259 \utfchar{"eec5} (three glyphs) % <- works
>
>  \stoptext
>  ```
>
>  Any ideas?
>
>  Most warmly,
>  -jp
>
>  -- 
>  J. P. Ascher
>  Preceding: https://doi.org/10.18130/jqpe-zc65
>  Current: http://www.bibsoc.org.uk/content/2020-2021-0
>
>  
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Re: [NTG-context] critical fun

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/6/2022 10:36 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:

Am 06.01.22 um 20:00 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:

Hi,

Maybe this is of interest to critical users:

\setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [color=darkblue]
% \setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [style=\tx,color=darkred]
% \setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [style=\txx,color=darkgreen]


I played a bit with it:


\mainlanguage[de]
\setupbodyfont[dejavu]
\setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [color=darkblue]

\starttext

\paralleltext{Dies}{This}\space
\paralleltext{könnte}{could}\space
\paralleltext{für}{for}\space
\paralleltext{Übersetzungen}{translations}\space
\paralleltext{interessant}{interesting}\space
\paralleltext{sein.}{be.}\space
\blank

\paralleltext{Dies}{This}\space
\paralleltext{könnte}{could}\space
\paralleltext{sein}{be}\space
\paralleltext{interessant}{interesting}\space
\paralleltext{für}{for}\space
\paralleltext{Übersetzungen.}{translations.}\space
\blank[2*line]

\paralleltext{Dies}{Это}\space
\paralleltext{könnte}{может}\space
\paralleltext{für}{для}\space
\paralleltext{Übersetzungen}{переводов}\space
\paralleltext{interessant}{интересно}\space
\paralleltext{sein.}{быть.}\space
\blank

\paralleltext{Dies}{Это}\space
\paralleltext{könnte}{может}\space
\paralleltext{sein}{быть}\space
\paralleltext{interessant}{интересно}\space
\paralleltext{für}{для}\space
\paralleltext{Übersetzungen.}{переводов.}\space
\blank[2*line]

\paralleltext{\m{E}}{Energie}\space
\paralleltext{\m{=}}{ist}\space
\paralleltext{\m{m}}{Masse}\space
\paralleltext{\m{·}}{mal}\space
\paralleltext{\m{c^2}}{Lichtgeschwindigkeit im Quadrat}\space

\stoptext


I guess it could be useful for short educational examples.
If I needed this, I might have tried the steps module.

It doesn’t work with more than two versions, and the syntax is a bit 
verbose.

in the next upload:

\startbuffer[en]
This is an english text and
this is also something english;
as is this.
Not that there is much meaning in it.
\stopbuffer

\startbuffer[nl]
Dit is een nederlandse tekst
en dit is ook wat nederlands;
net als dit.
Niet dat het veel te betekenen heeft.
\stopbuffer

\definesynchronizecontent
  [nl]
  [language=nl,
   color=darkred]

\definesynchronizecontent
  [en]
  [language=en,
   color=darkgreen]

\definesynchronize
  [parallel-en-nl]
  [list={en,nl}]

\placesynchronize
  [parallel-en-nl]
  [buffer={en,nl}]

\blank

\placesynchronize
  [parallel-en-nl]
  [split={.},
   text={
{This is an english text and this is also something english; as is 
this. Not that there is much meaning in it.},
{Dit is een nederlandse tekst en dit is ook wat nederlands; net als 
dit. Niet dat het veel te betekenen heeft.}

   }]

\blank

\placesynchronize
  [parallel-en-nl]
  [split={.},
   text={
{
{This is an english text and this is also something english;},
{as is this.},
{Not that there is much meaning in it.}
},
{
{Dit is een nederlandse tekst en dit is ook wat nederlands;},
{net als dit.},
{Niet dat het veel te betekenen heeft.}
}
   }]

\enabletrackers[synchronize]


\setupsynchronizecontent
  [nl]
  [language=nl,
   style=\tx,
   left={[},
   right={]},
   color=darkblue]

\placesynchronize
  [parallel-en-nl]
  [distance=1pt,
   buffer={en,nl}]



-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Thank you Otared and Youssef !
As you know MacOS High Sierra is the version before Catalina and works with 
Bash and the command I’ve given shows where I have installed context : echo 
'export PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH' >> 
~/.bashrc

As I am new on MacOS and since what works on Unix works nearly the same on 
MacOS, no matter if you install context where you want (in /Documents or in 
/Applications). With the command . setuptex in the folder 
/home/user/context/tex one could load context and its other commands like 
mtxrun. I don’t understand what I forget to do !
 

> Le 8 janv. 2022 à 00:00, Youssef Cherem via ntg-context  
> a écrit :
> 
> The instructions for MacOS are the same as for Unix, but note that:
> 
> MacOS versions from Catalina (10.15) and newer use Zsh by default.
> MacOS versions before Catalina use Bash by default.
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation 
> 
> fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 19:02 skrev Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>:
> Hello !
> Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS (High 
> Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other option 
> with mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found
> 
> I did that before :  echo "export 
> PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >> 
> ~/.bashrc
> 
> What I am missing ?
> JP
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[J . P . Ascher via ntg-context]

On Fri, Jan 07 2022, 18:10:39 +01 Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 1/7/2022 4:18 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:
>> Hi, all,
>> I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank

[...]

>> Any ideas?
> when you use a complex font (in this case with lots of ligatures)
> doing a fallback can interfere with these features especially when
> they have been put in the private areas which are basically
> 'undefined'
>
> you're accessing an st ligature directly but normally you will do that
> by enabling a font feature

Thank you Hans, for your response, and your years of hard work on many
great manuals and code!

I'm doing that deliberately, but for my own peculiar reason: I'm working
on transcribing 17c texts in terms of the typographical sorts available
in the physical founts of their print shop.  I.e. I usually disable all
ligatures and only manually put in a ligature when the physical type was
a ligatured one, as best I can tell.  Not every shop had the same founts
and not every compositor used every available ligature in the same shop.

My bigger technical problem is that I need to combine paragraphs of
normally typeset prose with other paragraphs where I don't want the
typesetting engine to change a single glyph, or too much of
the spacing.

I pulled it off for my dissertation with a bunch of hacks, like the
above, which proved to me that it could actually work.  From the readers
I've had, it seems that as you read more of the prose, you start
noticing that the description is different in subtle ways and
eventually--I hope--learn to see the evidence of typesetting that I'm
writing about reproduced in my work and thus now can in the historical
item itself.

But, I think that the actual solution is a real font for this.  I'm just
making hacks between appointments--I can afford the time away from the
treadmill of applications to do it correctly right now.

Sometimes, I wonder if a monospace, like DejaVu's, with the extra glyphs
would make the distinction between prose and description clearer, but
I'll have to wait until I have an occasion to try that too.

I'd be curious if anyone else has seen someone trying something similar.

yrs,
-jp
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Re: [NTG-context] critical fun

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

OK ! All is working fine and I can compile the CriticalFun files ! I’ll play 
with some . Thank you.

> Le 6 janv. 2022 à 23:03, Otared Kavian via ntg-context  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi Jean-Pierre,
> 
> You need to update your ConTeXt LMTX: the example works fine on MacOS when 
> one has the version 2022.01.06 19:51.
> 
> Best regards: Otared K.
> 
>> On 6 Jan 2022, at 22:09, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This ‘CriticalFun’ test failed, and CTX complains that \setupsynchronize was 
>> never defined (see the log, as attached 
>> file)
>> 
>>> Le 6 janv. 2022 à 20:00, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  a 
>>> écrit :
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Maybe this is of interest to critical users:
>>> 
>>> \setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [color=darkblue]
>>> % \setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [style=\tx,color=darkred]
>>> % \setupsynchronize [paralleltext] [style=\txx,color=darkgreen]
>>> 
>>> \starttext
>>> 
>>> \dorecurse{10}{%
>>>  \paralleltext
>>>  {[een allereerste zinnetje]}
>>>  {[een tweede  zinnetje]}%
>>>  \space
>>>  \paralleltext
>>>  {[een derde zin]}
>>>  {[een vierde zinnetje]}
>>>  \space
>>> } \removeunwantedspaces
>>> \par test line \page
>>> 
>>> \paralleltext
>>>  {[\ignorespaces\samplefile{tufte}\removeunwantedspaces]}
>>>  {[\samplefile{ward}\removeunwantedspaces]}%
>>> \par test line \page
>>> 
>>> \paralleltext
>>>  {[\ignorespaces\samplefile{tufte}\removeunwantedspaces]}
>>>  {[\ignorespaces\samplefile{tufte}\removeunwantedspaces]}%
>>> \par test line \page
>>> 
>>> \paralleltext
>>>  {[\ignorespaces\samplefile{ward}\removeunwantedspaces]}%
>>>  {[\ignorespaces\samplefile{tufte}\removeunwantedspaces]}
>>> \par test line \page
>>> 
>>> \stoptext
>>> 
>>> Kind of experimental and semi-automatic (triggered by question from 
>>> collegue). I want to add some larger text sync points (just mark locations 
>>> in two running texts) stuff but i have no examples.
>>> 
>>> Hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -
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>> 
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Re: [NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

I’ve founded what was wrong in my .bashrc file : it was only an error of syntax 
!

> Le 8 janv. 2022 à 00:00, Youssef Cherem via ntg-context  
> a écrit :
> 
> The instructions for MacOS are the same as for Unix, but note that:
> 
> MacOS versions from Catalina (10.15) and newer use Zsh by default.
> MacOS versions before Catalina use Bash by default.
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation 
> 
> fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 19:02 skrev Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>:
> Hello !
> Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS (High 
> Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other option 
> with mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found
> 
> I did that before :  echo "export 
> PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >> 
> ~/.bashrc
> 
> What I am missing ?
> JP
> ___
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Re: [NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

I’ve made a stupid error : I’ve passed this command echo 'export 
PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH' >> 
~/.bashrc instead of  export 
PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH >> 
~/.bashrc.

Sorry for the noise !

> Le 8 janv. 2022 à 01:42, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
>  a écrit :
> 
> Thank you Otared and Youssef !
> As you know MacOS High Sierra is the version before Catalina and works with 
> Bash and the command I’ve given shows where I have installed context : echo 
> 'export PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH' 
> >> ~/.bashrc
> 
> As I am new on MacOS and since what works on Unix works nearly the same on 
> MacOS, no matter if you install context where you want (in /Documents or in 
> /Applications). With the command . setuptex in the folder 
> /home/user/context/tex one could load context and its other commands like 
> mtxrun. I don’t understand what I forget to do !
>  
> 
>> Le 8 janv. 2022 à 00:00, Youssef Cherem via ntg-context > > a écrit :
>> 
>> The instructions for MacOS are the same as for Unix, but note that:
>> 
>> MacOS versions from Catalina (10.15) and newer use Zsh by default.
>> MacOS versions before Catalina use Bash by default.
>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation 
>> 
>> fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 19:02 skrev Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
>> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>:
>> Hello !
>> Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS 
>> (High Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other 
>> option with mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found
>> 
>> I did that before :  echo "export 
>> PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >> 
>> ~/.bashrc
>> 
>> What I am missing ?
>> JP
>> ___
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>> the Wiki!
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[J . P . Ascher via ntg-context]

On Fri, Jan 07 2022, 19:23:18 +01 Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 1/7/2022 4:18 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:
>
>> % Libertine with a Junicode fallback, lib-fb-jun
> looks like there is some beta junicode two (i tried the variable font

[...]

> anyway ... these fonts are probably to beta to be useful now although
> one needs users like you to test them and feedback
>
> Hans

Thank you very much for this approach!  Lua seems like a good way to go,
since I can be explicit about what I'm doing.

On Junicode Two, I chatted with Peter Baker the other day.  He had been
writing his first version in a raw UFO file with Emacs, but recently
switched to Glyphs, I think.  I'll reach out to him and see what's
happening.  Thank you, too, for that suggestion!
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[J . P . Ascher via ntg-context]

> in that case you can best use a rather bare font i.e. no features at
> all apart from kerning and use dynamic features grouped
>
> in lmtx there are other tricks too
>
> \noleftligaturing
> \norightligaturing
> \noligaturing
>
> and other conbtrols like
>
> \noleftkerning
> etc

This is very useful.  I'm thinking of writing an environment that
switches: I like keeping the ease of typing normal characters, rather
than getting glyphs directly, because it's easier to proof on screen in
the editor.

>> writing about reproduced in my work and thus now can in the historical
>> item itself.
>
> one aspect is how ligatures are made: some fonts have single shapes,
> others use replacements and kerning of (then) multiple shapes

I think you wrote about this somewhere else and it got me interested in
physical type from my period: it looks like some printers did some of
the same things, sometimes!  You might have a box of pre-composed
ligatures, or not; you might take a knife to some letters to tweak them
for specific uses, or not; you might even shave wrong-sized letters to
fit them in where they don't belong.  Those shaved down letters could
end up back with their siblings, now shifting around during printing, or
they could be tossed.

The pre-composed ligatures might most often be made on matrices struck
with the same punches as for the non-ligatured glyphs, but typefounders
might re-strike matries now and then, so you might end up with slightly
different pre-composed ligatures in different, or even the same, fount
of type.  It's nuts!

Fred Smeijers writes about this a little bit in *Counterpunch*, but
I had already started thinking about it because of ConTeXt.

I wouldn't have known to look if it weren't for the typographical
education you and your colleagues pass around; so, thank you again!

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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/7/2022 7:55 PM, J. P. Ascher wrote:

On Fri, Jan 07 2022, 18:10:39 +01 Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 1/7/2022 4:18 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:

Hi, all,
I'm a long time lurker (on gmane), first time poster. First, thank


[...]


Any ideas?

when you use a complex font (in this case with lots of ligatures)
doing a fallback can interfere with these features especially when
they have been put in the private areas which are basically
'undefined'

you're accessing an st ligature directly but normally you will do that
by enabling a font feature


Thank you Hans, for your response, and your years of hard work on many
great manuals and code!

I'm doing that deliberately, but for my own peculiar reason: I'm working
on transcribing 17c texts in terms of the typographical sorts available
in the physical founts of their print shop.  I.e. I usually disable all
ligatures and only manually put in a ligature when the physical type was
a ligatured one, as best I can tell.  Not every shop had the same founts
and not every compositor used every available ligature in the same shop.


in that case you can best access the shapes by name (which is possible 
in context), assuming that they have one (often they do or they  have 
standard locations like a few ligatures have)



My bigger technical problem is that I need to combine paragraphs of
normally typeset prose with other paragraphs where I don't want the
typesetting engine to change a single glyph, or too much of
the spacing.


in that case you can best use a rather bare font i.e. no features at all 
apart from kerning and use dynamic features grouped


in lmtx there are other tricks too

\noleftligaturing
\norightligaturing
\noligaturing

and other conbtrols like

\noleftkerning
etc


I pulled it off for my dissertation with a bunch of hacks, like the
above, which proved to me that it could actually work.  From the readers
I've had, it seems that as you read more of the prose, you start
noticing that the description is different in subtle ways and
eventually--I hope--learn to see the evidence of typesetting that I'm
writing about reproduced in my work and thus now can in the historical
item itself.


one aspect is how ligatures are made: some fonts have single shapes, 
others use replacements and kerning of (then) multiple shapes



But, I think that the actual solution is a real font for this.  I'm just
making hacks between appointments--I can afford the time away from the
treadmill of applications to do it correctly right now.

Sometimes, I wonder if a monospace, like DejaVu's, with the extra glyphs
would make the distinction between prose and description clearer, but
I'll have to wait until I have an occasion to try that too.

I'd be curious if anyone else has seen someone trying something similar.

yrs,
-jp



--

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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Otared Kavian via ntg-context]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

In which directory (or « folder », speaking MacOS…) have you installed the 
ConTeXt tree ? 
For instance, on my machine, I have installed the ConTeXt LMTX tree in

/Applications/context-osx-arm64/

and then if for example I need to execute the mtxrun coming with this tree, I 
can say

/Applications/context-osx-arm64/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin/mtxrun - -generate

(beware the « - - generate » should be actually two successive « - » dashes 
without a space between them… I am using Mail.app on my Mac and it replaces the 
two dashes with a longer n-dash « — »).

Of course the best would be to create an alias for 

/Applications/context-osx-arm64/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin/mtxrun

in your .bashrc, if you use bash.

Best regards: Otared K.

> On 7 Jan 2022, at 23:01, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello !
> Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS (High 
> Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other option 
> with mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found
> 
> I did that before :  echo "export 
> PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >> 
> ~/.bashrc
> 
> What I am missing ?
> JP
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Re: [NTG-context] Fallback fails for Linux Libertine O to Junicode over private area, debugging?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/7/2022 5:59 PM, J. P. Ascher via ntg-context wrote:

Thanks for asking!

It's just my example.  I maintain JunicodeRX (...with Restoration
Typographical Extensions) which includes yet more non-standard code
points and which I continue to add to.  In my actual work, I also add in
Symbola for additional fallbacks.

Some fonts have better language coverage (Libertine) and others have
some custom glyphs I want (JunicodeRX and Symbola).  If I had a bit more
time, I suspect maintaining a stand-alone
Libertine+JunicodeRX+Symbola.otf would be the best approach, but that's
a bit beyond me these days.
the complication in mixing fonts is that one cannot really mix the 
features arbitrary


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Youssef Cherem via ntg-context]

The instructions for MacOS are the same as for Unix, but note that:

   - MacOS versions from Catalina (10.15) and newer use *Zsh* by default.
   - MacOS versions before Catalina use *Bash* by default.

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation

fre. 7. jan. 2022 kl. 19:02 skrev Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl>:

> Hello !
> Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS
> (High Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other
> option with mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found
>
> I did that before :  echo "export
> PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >>
> ~/.bashrc
>
> What I am missing ?
> JP
>
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[NTG-context] Why mtxrun fails ?

[Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context]

Hello !
Sorry for this newbie question : I’ve just uploaded CTX on my new MacOS (High 
Sierra), and when I pass the command mtxrun —generate or any other option with 
mtxrun, I get this : -bash: mtxrun: command not found

I did that before :  echo "export 
PATH=/Users/adeimantos/Documents/context/tex/texmf-osx-64/bin:$PATH" >> 
~/.bashrc

What I am missing ?
JP___
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