[obsnw] Re: Earth Moving Activities at Liesbeeck River

[stephen van der spuy]

On Friday, September 6, 2013 6:29:11 PM UTC+2, Brett Herron wrote:

 Late this afternoon I was alerted to some earth moving activties on the 
 banks of the Liesbeeck River near the River Club.  I do not know what this 
 is about nor whether it is authorised works or not.  I did however report 
 this to the Director: Environmental Resource Management who has asked the 
 manager for the area to investigate and intervene.   I will post more 
 information when I have it.
  
 Regards
  
 Brett Herron


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[obsnw] Re: Earth Moving Activities at Liesbeeck River

[stephen van der spuy]

...Dear Brett,  
Twelve years ago Ross Demolition filled an entire wetland on the Cape F 
lats.  They were severly reprimanded by the CITY.   
It would appear that the environment is not important to them.  They should 
be fined for what they have done to the Liesbeek River.Stephen van der 
Spuy











On Friday, September 6, 2013 6:29:11 PM UTC+2, Brett Herron wrote:

 Late this afternoon I was alerted to some earth moving activties on the 
 banks of the Liesbeeck River near the River Club.  I do not know what this 
 is about nor whether it is authorised works or not.  I did however report 
 this to the Director: Environmental Resource Management who has asked the 
 manager for the area to investigate and intervene.   I will post more 
 information when I have it.
  
 Regards
  
 Brett Herron


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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, obsnw@googlegroups.com wrote:

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-  Car break in again, Milner Road #14913bc0a0b01625_group_thread_0
- 1 Update

   Car break in again, Milner Road
 http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/d9f7d1719e2f3175?utm_source=digestutm_medium=email
   Rich evera...@gmail.com: Oct 14 11:14AM -0700

 Our car was broken into again last night, the second time in 2 weeks in
 the Milner Road cul de sac.

 Same thing, smashed quarter light and car ransacked but nothing taken as
 we never leave anything in it!
   Back to top #14913bc0a0b01625_digest_top
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[obsnw] informal car guards

[stephen van der spuy]

If you see anyone loitering in the area who is obviously not a recognised
vagrant,,,then call Obs Safety Patrol immediately for him to be
removed,,you do not need to give your name.   Stephen

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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 3 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

The best crime-prevention in Observatory is visible policing ... not
expensive security cameras. Regards, Stephen

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:22 PM, obsnw@googlegroups.com wrote:

 obsnw@googlegroups.com
 https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digestutm_medium=email#%21forum/obsnw/topics
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-  Spate of Drug Dealer Arrests in Observatory by Woodstock SAPS - 22
to 24 April 2015 #14cfad499500d18f_group_thread_0 - 4 Updates
-  Attempted Armed Robbery: Main Road - Wednesday Evening - 22 April
2015 #14cfad499500d18f_group_thread_1 - 4 Updates
-  Is crime and instability not related to the way oureconomy is
structured? #14cfad499500d18f_group_thread_2 - 1 Update

   Spate of Drug Dealer Arrests in Observatory by Woodstock SAPS - 22 to
 24 April 2015
 http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/113ab8f021caca04?utm_source=digestutm_medium=email
   James Cowley jamesobs...@gmail.com: Apr 26 11:58PM +0200

 A spate of drug dealer arrests were recently reported by Constable Berry,
 the Woodstock SAPS Sector 1 Manger for Observatory. On Thursday 22
 April just before 8 pm a drug dealer, who was operating along the Lower
 Main Road, was spotted by him and Constable Frank Ontong. The drug dealer
 tried to run away but was chased by them on foot. He was caught with 12
 packets of 'tik' and immediately arrested.

 Later, just past 10 pm, the two Woodstock SAPS Constables caught another
 drug dealer who was operating at Trump Towers in front Ezithebeni Braai
 Lounge pub on Lower Main Road Observatory. He apparently was found with
 lots of drugs and tik on him, and subsequently arrested.

 On Friday night at around 9 pm Constable Berry conveyed that they were
 monitoring a drug dealer's home who operates in the Observatory area.
 Later they entered and searched through the home but neither the dealer or
 any drugs were found. They subsequently managed to find the dealer on
 Lower Main Road, searched him, but nothing was found on him. The club,
 Ezitherbeni were later searched through by them for drugs but nothing was
 found there. He noted that SAPS will keep the pressure up regarding the
 drug trafficking in Obs.

 Soon after at 11 pm Constable Berry conveyed that they caught a Nigerian
 drug dealer who was operating in Lower Main Road. They noticed his car,
 pulled him over and searched the vehicle. They eventually found a packet
 of 'tik' in a hidden compartment inside the vehicle's dash board. The drug
 dealer was arrested, and I assume, the vehicle was impounded.

 The success of these arrests is contributed to Constable Berry and Ontong
 going around in an unmarked SAPS vehicle and wearing plain clothes while on
 duty. Captain Althea Jeftha, an ex Woodstock Officer and a former 'tough
 roaring tiger' in Woodstock, having been transferred to the Cape Town Drug
 Squad a few years ago, is still on the rampant and often performs drug
 operations in the wider Cape Town areas and in the Woodstock precinct from
 time to time.

 Never the less, The ONW is proud to have Constable Mark Berry as ouur
 Secttor Manger and his shadow, Constable Frank Ontong, doing the rounds in
 Observatory in their marked Police van or in unmarked vehicles, and just as
 appreciative to the Sector 1 SAPS Patrol vehicle Shift Staff who are often
 seen patrolling the empty streets by day or night. Thank you Woodstock
 SAPS!
   Frank Schuitemaker fschuitema...@gmail.com: Apr 27 11:17AM +0200

 Well done Messrs Berry and Ontong for cleaning up LMR Drug scene, how many
 to go?

 Also thanks for sorting out some of the rogue clubs and pubs.

 Time for some of them to move far far away from Obs and serenity to return
 to our lovely village..

   Natalie Leon nataliehelenel...@gmail.com: Apr 27 10:52AM +0200

 Sorry about all the the typos, sent too early...
 Natalie

 ___
 Natalie Leon
 Senior Scientist
 Health Systems Research Unit
 Medical Research Council of South Africa

 natalie.l...@mrc.ac.za
 +27-79-501-2179
 Skype: colveone



 On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Natalie Leon 
 nataliehelenel...@gmail.com
 wrote:

   Natalie Leon nataliehelenel...@gmail.com: Apr 27 10:51AM +0200

 This is very encouraging indeed. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. If ONW
 can support these police efforts in any way, e.g through local eyes on the
 roade tuype intelligencea nd quick communication via WHAT'S APP, there may
 yet be some way to turn the tide around.
 Natalie

 ___
 Natalie Leon
 Senior Scientist
 Health Systems Research Unit
 Medical Research Council of South Africa

 natalie.l...@mrc.ac.za
 +27-79-501-2179
 Skype: colveone



 On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:58 PM, James 

Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 10 updates in 4 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

FOUND : light ginger, very fluffy, unneutered male cat.   FOUND : black &
white, small adult, big eyes, unneutered male cat.Please contact Beth
Adams 021 404 3261 ... 073 1763 107.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:12 PM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- FIRE WORKS <#150dcb65bc9497c3_group_thread_0> - 4 Updates
>- Missing cat <#150dcb65bc9497c3_group_thread_1> - 2 Updates
>- Mugging at gunpoint <#150dcb65bc9497c3_group_thread_2> - 2 Updates
>- We are busy building your hood. <#150dcb65bc9497c3_group_thread_3> - 2
>Updates
>
> FIRE WORKS
> 
> bapettit1 : Nov 05 11:38AM -0800
>
> My dog is traumatised by very loud fireworks Does anyone know where
> these big bangs are being thrown around? It sounds like somewhere in Obs?
> I've never heard such loud explosions here...
> bapettit1 : Nov 05 11:38AM -0800
>
> My dog is traumatised by very loud fireworks Does anyone know where
> these big bangs are being thrown around? It sounds like somewhere in Obs?
> I've never heard such loud explosions here...
> bapettit1 : Nov 05 11:38AM -0800
>
> My dog is traumatised by very loud fireworks Does anyone know where
> these big bangs are being thrown around? It sounds like somewhere in Obs?
> I've never heard such loud explosions here...
> bapettit1 : Nov 05 11:38AM -0800
>
> My dog is traumatised by very loud fireworks Does anyone know where
> these big bangs are being thrown around? It sounds like somewhere in Obs?
> I've never heard such loud explosions here...
> Back to top <#150dcb65bc9497c3_digest_top>
> Missing cat
> 
> Suzette Swart : Nov 05 04:59PM
>
> Hi Trevor & others
> I believe the 'hood' site would be more effective for these kind of
> notices than the City. I for one am definitely joining in.
> Regards
> Suzette
> 0746419573
> Jenny Calder : Nov 05 11:57PM +0200
>
> The link is
> *https://www.capetown.gov.za/en/citypetfinder/Pages/default.aspx*
>
> Welcome to CityPetFinder.
>
> CityPetFinder
>
> If you have lost a pet, use CityPetFinder to search through a single
> database of all the animals in the care of the City's 21 *Registered
> Animal Organisations (RAOs). Because CityPetFinder has been created in
> partnership with these RAOs, it has a broader database than any of these
> organisations might have on their own, which greatly improves your
> chances of finding your pet.
>
> To add your pet’s details to CityPetFinder,click *here*
> .
>
> Please note that registration is required to protect the pets listed in
> CityPetFinder. If you identify a pet on CityPetFinder as yours, contact
> the relevant RAO directly.
>
> RAOs can also use CityPetFinder to search for animals in their care that
> have been identified as lost.
>
> *Make sure your pet can’t get lost by:
>
> *
>
> * Teaching your pet a command such as ‘Stop!’
> * Enclosing your garden
> * Not leaving your dog outside public places unattended
> * Having your pet microchipped or buying him/her a collar or a
> disc with your contact details engraved on it
> * Ensuring that you exercise your pet sufficiently to keep it from roaming
> * If your pet runs away but is near enough to hear you, call him/her
> to you in a pleasant tone of voice. Do not shout - this may scare
> him/her away
> * Keeping your dog on a leash in public places to prevent him/her
> wandering off
>
>
> *A RAO is an animal welfare organisation such as a pound or shelter,
> that has been registered with the City of Cape Town.
>
>
> On 11/5/2015 12:20 PM, Trevor Hughes wrote:
> Back to top <#150dcb65bc9497c3_digest_top>
> Mugging at gunpoint
> 
> Hannes Bronkhorst : Nov 05 04:58AM -0800
>
> Hi All,
>
> As i have noted the alarming crime incidents of late, I have taken it upon
> myself to let all know that the Wrensch Road subway is now being locked
> earlier than before. In an effort to protect the Community and residents
> alike. I do know that the last trains run till 21h00 at night in the week,
> and till 20h00 on weekends. Taking all this in mind and to stop further
> criminal attacks the subway is being locked earlier than before.
>
> Regards,
> Hannes.
> OPS 

[obsnw] Re: Carthorse running down Lower Main?

[stephen van der spuy]

Hi Jo-Anne,   Please call me on 0214470667 or on 0714246805.  Regards, 
Stephen

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 2:34:38 PM UTC+2, Jo-Anne Stolk wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> My husband was at Hello Sailor yesterday and saw a driverless horse and 
> cart running down Lower Main. Does anyone have any more details? I really 
> hope the poor horse didn't run into traffic on Main Road :-(
>
> Jo
>

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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 2 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

Thanks Rosemary,,,you always give good advice.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:17 PM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
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> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
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> 
>
>- found animals <#1515d7a3affdb7ce_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>- Cat needs a home <#1515d7a3affdb7ce_group_thread_1> - 2 Updates
>
> found animals
> 
> Rosemary Robins : Nov 30 04:27PM +0200
>
> Natalie and David
>
> Have you by any chance taken the found animals to a vet (Vanessa in Lower
> Main Road is close) and checked for micro chipping? Vets do not charge for
> this - even the after hours clinic. Many people chip their pets these days.
> Back to top <#1515d7a3affdb7ce_digest_top>
> Cat needs a home
> 
> david : Nov 30 05:41AM -0800
>
> More Help Needed
> This young bitch was found at the corner of Low & Lower Wrench this
> morning
> at about 10. She is wearing a pinkish collar.
> You can reach me on davidmarcu...@gmail.com.
>
> On Monday, 30 November 2015 13:05:39 UTC+2, Amiena Davids wrote:
> Natalie Poultney : Nov 30 01:47PM
>
> And yet another request for help.
>
> I apologise in advance for those of you who object to these types of posts
> on this forum.
>
> Delicate fluffy white cat found on the corner of Milton & Arnold last
> night. She is very friendly, and must have come from a loving home.
>
> Please contact me, Natalie - 082 577 6642 or 081 811 4319 or email
> nat_...@hotmail.com
>
> Picture attached.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Natalie
> Back to top <#1515d7a3affdb7ce_digest_top>
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

ask the police to do you a favour and tell him to stay away from your house

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 2:24 PM,  wrote:

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>- suggestions please? <#151cecc6584660ad_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>
> suggestions please?
> 
> Rosemary Robins : Dec 23 01:09PM +0200
>
> You may or may not have seen in recent months a fellow with a Husky in
> Station Road - frequently with Troubles and his little dog/dogs. (The
> latter I have been feeding for approx. 8 years - with assistance). Owner
> of Husky knows where I live and comes to my house nearly every single day
> asking for dog food. Just a few minutes ago he was here calling me an
> animal hater, what has he done to me that I won't feed his dog, etc. etc.
> - the verbal abuse just didn't stop. He further told me Husky has a broken
> leg and "is laying the yard with a stick tied to her leg". Whether or not
> this is true, I have no idea but I have asked SPCA to do a check.
>
> Any suggestions as to how I can prevent this man from coming to my door all
> the time? He lives at 28 Shelley Street.
>
> Thank you.
> Back to top <#151cecc6584660ad_digest_top>
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 4 updates in 2 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

I hope the car guards will be just that,,,car guards,,, and not direct
motorists to park on yellow and red lines,,,and not block other parked cars
from getting out.

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

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>- Lost Keys <#2129390076_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>- Feb ObsLife <#2129390076_group_thread_1> - 3 Updates
>
> Lost Keys
> 
> Steve Killick : Feb 11 09:35PM +0200
>
> Please refer to the attached photos of three bunches of keys recently found
> by OPS.
>
> Please note that these have now been handed over to SAPS Woodstock.
>
>
> --
> Steve Killick
> Cell 084 447 5544
> email: steve.kill...@gmail.com
> Back to top <#2129390076_digest_top>
> Feb ObsLife
> 
> "mail37404" : Feb 11 05:30PM +0200
>
> Dear Barbara and all,
> Noting the attached comment from Barbara below...
> Reference is made about OBSID “taking the initiative to introduce some
> accountability at the car park.” and “OBSID will be improving on the
> existing system of random people.”
> Pray , tell what these statements... have to do with reality?
> What car park is referred to?
> What is the “system of random people’’ referred to?
> Is there such a system and if it is random how could it be improved?
>
> Maybe Hudson’s information is being misinterpreted?
> Regards
> Marc
>
> From: Barbara Anne Langridge
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 2:59 PM
> To: Rosemary Robins
> Cc: Hudson McComb Coo ; The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch
> Subject: Re: [obsnw] Feb ObsLife
>
> Well done to OBSID for taking the initiative to introduce some
> accountability at the car park. I think it's a great idea that OBSID will
> be improving on the existing system of random people.
>
> I'm confident a certain amount of training and controls will be in place
> and we will all have a better parking exoerience.
>
> Thanks Hudson for the initiative.
>
> Barbara
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 10 Feb 2016, at 1:58 PM, Rosemary Robins  wrote:
>
>
> Dear Hudson
>
> It is always - with interest - that I read the centre spread of ObsLife
> which is the OBSID page.
>
> I have a few questions about the "official" car guards who are to be
> employed:
> * what will be their main purpose?
> * where will they be stationed?
> * what hours will they work?
> * how will one identify them as "official"? - (just a bib is useless, it
> can be handed over to anyone)
> * will they have IDs with photographs?
> * are they going to stand in the road and try to wave people into parking
> bays whilst standing in the said bay?
>
> I don't want to appear 100% negative but I do have concerns about this
> project. I further appreciate what you are all trying to do for the
> disadvantaged.
>
> I should appreciate some clarification.
>
> Kind regards
> Rosemary (Robins)
>
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

There is nothing to indicate that anyone in Obs is photographed simply
because he/she is black.   People get photographed when there is suspicion
about them.   The colour of the photographer and the colour of the person
being photographed has got absolutely nothing to do with it.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:38 AM, <obsnw@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
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> Groups
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>
>- Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
><#m_2115493877702657198_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>
> Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
> <http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/e19b15606a2ac47f?utm_source=digest_medium=email>
> willow <mushroomfil...@gmail.com>: Jul 16 11:30AM -0700
>
> Hi Stephen. It seems I think that you have misunderstood the key issue
> here. I dont really see that anyone takes exception to the colour of the
> photographer, all though of course in the instances mentioned they are
> caucasian, but even if they were not, the issue is about the colour of the
> person being photographed and it would appear that black people in Obs are
> being photographed simply because they ARE black.
>
>
> On Saturday, 16 July 2016 09:37:55 UTC+2, stephen van der spuy wrote:
> Back to top <#m_2115493877702657198_digest_top>
> You have received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for
> this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/join>
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an
> email to obsnw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

People need to be photographed when there is suspicion about them.  Their
colour should be of no consideration whatsoever.  If we are going to be
over-sensitive on this issue , then we might as well scrap the Obs
Neighbourhood Watch.  Criminals are not sensitive, so why should the
neighbourhood watch be ?  Persons being photographed should accept this
sort of thing, and not be overly sensitive themselves if they have nothing
to hide.   It's for the good of everyone that people are photographed.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:26 AM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
><#m_2191741723566252972_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>- SAPS and Lower Obs <#m_2191741723566252972_group_thread_1> - 1 Update
>
> Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
> 
> Obs NW Chairman : Jul 18 10:02PM +0200
>
> Hi Willow, Jodi and Gazarow,
>
> Thanks you for your comments on this issue.
>
> I am disturbed that you are under the impression that ONW members view
> people as are suspicious simply because they are black. (And I remind
> everyone that we don't know that the two incidents mentioned here were ONW
> members, but for the sake of debate lets consider that they might have
> been)
>
> I offered an explanation to Itumeleng as to why he possibly may have been
> considered suspicious in light of recent crimes in Obs and the suspect
> profiles that SAPS has shared with us. I offered this explanation because I
> believe that he, like most Obs residents, is progressive enough to see this
> incident for what it is - a mistake. And hopefully also to realize that the
> ONW is once again active and that we are trying to act in the best
> interests of our entire community.
>
> There are no firm guidelines as to what constitutes a suspicious person or
> not. Sometimes its because they fit a particular profile but more often its
> because they have a nervous or aggressive air about them. It is subjective
> and mistakes are bound to be made.
>
> I would rather risk offending someone by reporting them and found to be
> mistaken, than to walk away for fear of being branded a racist only to find
> that that same person commits a crime a few minutes later. Although, having
> said that, over the last few days these exchanges have led me to hesitate
> in reporting persons I normally would have. I think it is detrimental to
> what we are trying to do as a neighborhood watch if this impression
> persists and if our members (or community at large) become afraid to report
> out of fear of causing offence. It is a sensitive subject, especially at
> the moment, and I think it is important that we discuss it publicly for
> three main reasons:
> to remind ONW members to be sensitive in their behaviour (and legal
> limitations);
> to inform the community of what the neighborhood watch is about (thier
> legal limitations) and how we are trying to make a difference in the
> community and;
> so we can use this as an opportunity to bring the community closer together
> rather than the opposite.
>
> I would like to invite you (an anyone in the community) to join us at one
> of our monthly meetings so that you can see how we operate and meet the
> people involved. I would also appreciate your input on how we can deal with
> this issue in a constructive and sensitive way. Our next meeting is on 27
> July at the Obs Community Centre at 6pm and I would like to make this
> subject the focus of the meeting. I hope that you will be able to make it
> and if not perhaps we can hold the discussion over for a future meeting?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> Back to top <#m_2191741723566252972_digest_top>
> SAPS and Lower Obs
> 
> Andrew Ziffo : Jul 18 05:57PM +0200
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks very much to Carolyn, Hudson, Jason, Wayne, Paul and Steve for
> following up personally and appropriately regarding the issues I raised on
> Friday. Having met Wayne now my opinion is that he is going to have a
> strong positive impact as the new night manager.
>
> Gwen and Pierre are active as the organizers of the Lower Obs patrols, and
> away until mid-August. So I'd like to suggest that a Lower Obs ONW/Obsid
> meeting is held sometime thereafter.
>
> Best wishes,
> Andrew
>
> Back to top <#m_2191741723566252972_digest_top>
> You have received this digest because you're 

Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

What does it matter whether the guy who photographed you was black, brown,
yellow, pink or white.?   What"s the colour got to do with it?

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 11:26 AM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Unauthorized photographer Corner Wesley and station road
><#m_-5091654324182154839_group_thread_0> - 6 Updates
>
> Unauthorized photographer Corner Wesley and station road
> 
> molopo riva : Jul 13 05:22PM +0200
>
> Hello all hope this finds you well, My name is Itumeleng I stay in
> Observatory Pepperquare, Today I experienced an incident were I was treated
> like a culprit by a Caucasian male between the age of 40-45. I had just
> parked my car next to the church on Wesley got out of the car ,waiting for
> a friend , the white man was passed by ,after 20 meters he proceeded to
> take pictures of the car while I was standing next to it. I understand the
> law permits people to freely take photographs in public spaces ,but in this
> instance this it was not artistic. I started wondering wether he would
> have reacted the same if it was a Caucasian male parked in the same manner
> that I was. What if I had reacted to his actions ? I kindly ask that man
> to Please refrain from such actions as being black does not mean criminal.
> attached is a picture of the car I drive, feel free to launch a police
> investigation seeing that you have a lot of time on your hands. This is
> Africa. Regards.
> Itumeleng
>
> --
>
>
> [image: --]
>
> Itumeleng Kgobokoe
> [image: https://]about.me/itumeleng_kgobokoe
> <
> https://about.me/itumeleng_kgobokoe?promo=email_sig_source=email_sig_medium=email_sig_campaign=external_links
> >
> Obs NW Chairman : Jul 14 11:25AM +0200
>
> Hi Itumeleng,
>
> Thanks for your mail.
>
> I can't confirm whether the person that photographed your vehicle yesterday
> was one of our members as I am not aware of any pictures of your vehicle
> having been posted to any of our platforms.
>
> However, it is quite likely that it could have been one of our members and
> I sorry that you were offended.
>
> Unfortunately we have recently experienced a number of incidents where
> black males use hired vehicles to come into Obs to commit crimes ranging
> from house breaking to armed robbery. These vehicles are often new shape
> Toyota's, VW's or Chev's and often have EC or GP number plates due them
> being rented vehicles. The occupants are usually well dressed and well
> spoken.
>
> Our members will often post pictures of suspicious vehicles/persons onto
> our Central Whatsapp Group so that SAPS can check on the registration
> details and then together with Law Enforcement, OBSID and the wider
> community, monitor their activities while they are in the area.
>
> Our members are encouraged to be as discreet as possible in taking these
> kind of pictures - for their safety and to avoid offending anyone. We(ONW)
> are not allowed to stop and search anyone - only SAPS and Law Enforcement
> can do that - and you should not have been harassed in any way.
>
> Once again, I apologise on behalf of the ONW if it was one of our members
> who offended you.
>
> Please report any inappropriate behavior from our members in the future so
> we can deal with it.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Steve
> ONW Chair
>
>
>
> Jodi : Jul 14 05:40AM -0700
>
> Is this an apology from Steve, or an attempt at justifying racial
> profiling
> in a mixed-race suburb and free country? Because it reads a lot more like
> the latter. What constitutes "suspicious" - are there any clearly written
> up criteria that we as the community can see, or is it just left up to any
> member's subjective decision in a country where we know racial bias is
> still a thing? I would have hoped that Obs would be a little more
> progressive than this and not be actively justifying the racial profiling
> of people visiting, living in, working in, studying in Obs.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 14 July 2016 11:25:37 UTC+2, chairman wrote:
> Gazarow : Jul 14 07:31AM -0700
>
> well said!
>
> On Wednesday, 13 July 2016 17:22:22 UTC+2, moloporiva wrote:
> edenmusa...@gmail.com: Jul 14 05:55PM +0200
>
> Good day all.
> On Sunday I went to see a friend of mine on Scot road, while waiting for
> him to come out around 3pm , a caucasian guy approach my car, just because
> there were two packet of paper bags of kfc and he assume it's was me who
> dispose on inappropriate place and he said 

[obsnw] Re: ONW Monthly Meeting - 29 June 2016 at 6pm

[stephen van der spuy]

Hi Everyone,  I did not attend last night s meeting.  On the agenda was the
railway fence.  In this regard I wish to say that vegetation should not be
grown up the fence as a solution.  I regularly use the Wrensch Road subway
and I need visibility of the other side before entering the subway.
Vegetation on the fence would obscure my visibility placing me at risk
because I would not know who I would be passing in the middle of the
tunnel.   Furthermore, the vegetation would make yet another hiding place
for criminals.   Also, the Police, OBSID Patrols, etc would not be able to
see what is happening on the other side of the railway line if there was
vegetation on the fence.  We need visibility.   Thanks, Stephen

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Obs NW Chairman 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> It's our monthly meeting this Wednesday evening at the Obs Community
> Center.
>
> Please find the agenda attached.
>
> Please spread the word. New comers are especially welcome. We look forward
> to seeing you there.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Steve
>

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TEL: 021-447-1066   or   072-063-1653
--

EMERGENCIES:  10111

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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 2 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

Where is the Woodstock Police sub-station in Obs.?At the railway
station.   yes,,, but where are they?   I walk a lot in my part of Obs
,, but

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Stolen driveway <#m_2977668164289257370_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>- Bloody tunnel by the station <#m_2977668164289257370_group_thread_1>
>- 2 Updates
>
> Stolen driveway
> 
> Anton Twigg : Sep 19 02:00PM +0200
>
> On Friday evening a very large piece of metal that was used as a ramp onto
> the pavement in Scott Road was ripped out of it's fixtures and carried off.
> Due to the weight it would have required at least two people to carry it
> away.
>
> Ironically this happened less than 15 meters from the OBCID horse box,
> which was parked on the corner of Scott and Robins at the time. While I
> understand that the guard on duty cannot be at the horse box all the time I
> do find it disconcerting that something like this happens in such close
> proximity to the horse box.
>
> Anton Twigg
> Back to top <#m_2977668164289257370_digest_top>
> Bloody tunnel by the station
> 
> Marlin Forbes : Sep 19 03:02AM -0700
>
> Someone walked into the cafe where I work, and told us they were hosing
> down blood in the tunnel under the railway line down the road in
> Observatory.
>
> I have been held up at gunpoint (in a cafe in Obs) to have my laptop and
> mobile phone taken. Two of my close friends have been brutally mugged
> (stabbed multiple times) within the last few months.
>
> What are the police doing about any of this?
>
> I have yet to hear a single word about the armed robbery I was involved
> in,
> despite being quite clear that I could identify at least one the
> perpetrators.
>
> It *seems* like they make a great big show on the day that it happens
> (police colonels interviewing us at the scene of the crime), and then...
> nothing, absolutely nothing.
>
> When someone says they can identify a suspect, get a drawing immediately.
> This happened over a month ago, memory fades, and so does confidence in
> the
> police force.
>
> Predators are on the prowl. Don't stray too far from the pack and don't
> look weak.
>
>
> Be careful out there, folks. Apparently, no-one is looking after your arse
> except yourself.
> Adele Grosse : Sep 19 12:29PM +0200
>
> Yes, I was just told by someone else that when she walked through the
> tunnel the morning there was a lot of blood. Can anyone give us info on
> this please
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Committed2Continue Madiba Magic
>
> Adéle MomNdela Grosse
> CEO, ISWM GLOBAL (PTY)Ltd
>
> PROUD2b ME® Centre4Change
>
> 76 Arnold Street, Observatory, Cape Town
>
> PO BOX 13841, Mowbray, 7705, Cape Town, South Africa
>
> +27 21 447 2282 [office]
>
> +27 83 6588 733 [mobile]
> 086 652 1300 [fax]
>
> www.proud2b.org
>
> ad...@proud2b.org
>
> © Copyright 2003 All rights reserved: ISWM Global PTY(Ltd)
>
>
>
> From:  on behalf of Marlin Forbes <
> marl...@datashaman.com>
> Date: Monday 19 September 2016 at 12:02 PM
> To: The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch 
> Subject: [obsnw] Bloody tunnel by the station
>
>
>
> Someone walked into the cafe where I work, and told us they were hosing
> down blood in the tunnel under the railway line down the road in
> Observatory.
>
> I have been held up at gunpoint (in a cafe in Obs) to have my laptop and
> mobile phone taken. Two of my close friends have been brutally mugged
> (stabbed multiple times) within the last few months.
>
> What are the police doing about any of this?
>
>
> I have yet to hear a single word about the armed robbery I was involved
> in, despite being quite clear that I could identify at least one the
> perpetrators.
>
> It *seems* like they make a great big show on the day that it happens
> (police colonels interviewing us at the scene of the crime), and then...
> nothing, absolutely nothing.
>
> When someone says they can identify a suspect, get a drawing immediately.
> This happened over a month ago, memory fades, and so does confidence in the
> police force.
>
> Predators are on the prowl. Don't stray too far from the pack and don't
> look weak.
>
>
> Be careful out there, folks. Apparently, no-one is looking after your arse
> except yourself.
>
>
>
> --
> 

Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 2 topics

[stephen van der spuy]

where is obsid safety patrol?where is the sa police?  I see very little
of them

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:35 PM, stephen van der spuy <
vanderspu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Where is the Woodstock Police sub-station in Obs.?At the railway
> station.   yes,,, but where are they?   I walk a lot in my part of Obs
> ,, but
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:16 PM, <obsnw@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> obsnw@googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>  Google
>> Groups
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> Topic digest
>> View all topics
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>
>>- Stolen driveway
>><#m_-1893329171255638499_m_2977668164289257370_group_thread_0> - 1
>>Update
>>- Bloody tunnel by the station
>><#m_-1893329171255638499_m_2977668164289257370_group_thread_1> - 2
>>Updates
>>
>> Stolen driveway
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/8470d322a6d81eb4?utm_source=digest_medium=email>
>> Anton Twigg <anton.tw...@gmail.com>: Sep 19 02:00PM +0200
>>
>> On Friday evening a very large piece of metal that was used as a ramp onto
>> the pavement in Scott Road was ripped out of it's fixtures and carried
>> off.
>> Due to the weight it would have required at least two people to carry it
>> away.
>>
>> Ironically this happened less than 15 meters from the OBCID horse box,
>> which was parked on the corner of Scott and Robins at the time. While I
>> understand that the guard on duty cannot be at the horse box all the time
>> I
>> do find it disconcerting that something like this happens in such close
>> proximity to the horse box.
>>
>> Anton Twigg
>> Back to top <#m_-1893329171255638499_m_2977668164289257370_digest_top>
>> Bloody tunnel by the station
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/c89aad909f7d9cbc?utm_source=digest_medium=email>
>> Marlin Forbes <marl...@datashaman.com>: Sep 19 03:02AM -0700
>>
>> Someone walked into the cafe where I work, and told us they were hosing
>> down blood in the tunnel under the railway line down the road in
>> Observatory.
>>
>> I have been held up at gunpoint (in a cafe in Obs) to have my laptop and
>> mobile phone taken. Two of my close friends have been brutally mugged
>> (stabbed multiple times) within the last few months.
>>
>> What are the police doing about any of this?
>>
>> I have yet to hear a single word about the armed robbery I was involved
>> in,
>> despite being quite clear that I could identify at least one the
>> perpetrators.
>>
>> It *seems* like they make a great big show on the day that it happens
>> (police colonels interviewing us at the scene of the crime), and then...
>> nothing, absolutely nothing.
>>
>> When someone says they can identify a suspect, get a drawing immediately.
>> This happened over a month ago, memory fades, and so does confidence in
>> the
>> police force.
>>
>> Predators are on the prowl. Don't stray too far from the pack and don't
>> look weak.
>>
>>
>> Be careful out there, folks. Apparently, no-one is looking after your
>> arse
>> except yourself.
>> Adele Grosse <ad...@proud2b.org>: Sep 19 12:29PM +0200
>>
>> Yes, I was just told by someone else that when she walked through the
>> tunnel the morning there was a lot of blood. Can anyone give us info on
>> this please
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Committed2Continue Madiba Magic
>>
>> Adéle MomNdela Grosse
>> CEO, ISWM GLOBAL (PTY)Ltd
>>
>> PROUD2b ME® Centre4Change
>>
>> 76 Arnold Street, Observatory, Cape Town
>>
>> PO BOX 13841, Mowbray, 7705, Cape Town, South Africa
>>
>> +27 21 447 2282 [office]
>>
>> +27 83 6588 733 [mobile]
>> 086 652 1300 [fax]
>>
>> www.proud2b.org
>>
>> ad...@proud2b.org
>>
>> © Copyright 2003 All rights reserved: ISWM Global PTY(Ltd)
>>
>>
>>
>> From: <obsnw@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Marlin Forbes <
>> marl...@datashaman.com>
>> Date: Monday 19 September 2016 at 12:02 PM
>> To: The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch <obsnw@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: [obsnw] Bloody tunnel by the station
>>
>

Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

hi steve,   re- proposed new railway fence,,,upon further reflection i
would like to suggest that the type of fence which we should aim for is an
eight foot high steel palisade fence in which the uprights are welded on to
the horizontals,,,this type would be the most difficult to
vandalize,,,this type can be seen on one or two sections at Obs railway
station and also at Hartleyvale Sports Stadium. The fence with the bolt
can easily be broken.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:18 PM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Lets put our village back into the Village Green
><#m_1397197598789488928_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>
> Lets put our village back into the Village Green
> 
> Obs NW Chairman : Oct 21 02:41PM +0200
>
> Good day,
>
> Please join us this Sunday afternoon at 5pm for a cleanup of the Village
> Green.
>
> This will be the first of many such gatherings with the aim of bringing
> village life back to the Village Green.
>
> Please bring bags, rakes etc for the cleaning part of the event and balls,
> dogs and picnics for the rest.
>
> We look forward to seeing you there.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Steve
>
> PS I will not be there. Trevor Hughes is coordinating this one.
> Back to top <#m_1397197598789488928_digest_top>
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

Mithila,,, it appears that this noise is going to drive you crazy
please phone me on 071 424 6805 and I'll do my best to help you get this
problem sorted out as soon as possiblewithout strong -arm tactics,

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:58 PM, stephen van der spuy <
vanderspu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Matilda,   Keep a record of everything you do.   First complain to
> those who are making the noise.   Next,, complain to the landlordtake
> it from there,,nobody is allowed to disturb your sleep,I could
> advise further if I knew where you stayed.
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:16 PM, <obsnw@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> obsnw@googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>  Google
>> Groups
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> Topic digest
>> View all topics
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>
>>- Need solution of Noisy problem.
>><#m_7536577062551995852_m_-7497426135772653349_group_thread_0> - 9
>>Updates
>>
>> Need solution of Noisy problem.
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/d79cf8ef8949ae2e?utm_source=digest_medium=email>
>> Mithila Orna <mithila.orna...@gmail.com>: Dec 20 04:37AM -0800
>>
>> Hi,
>> I am Mithila.
>> I am facing Noisy problem. My upstairs are very rude and always play loud
>> music in my sleeping time.
>> I feel always disturb for them. I need help. Need solution.
>> What should I do now??
>> Should I complaint to authorities or take revenge? Any here have done
>> anything effective?
>> Thanks
>> Carolyn Neville <caro...@neville.za.net>: Dec 20 03:41PM +0200
>>
>> Hi Mithila
>> Where do you live? Are you renting or are you an owner? Are the people
>> upstairs renting? Do you know who the landlord is?
>> What times of the day are they playing music?
>> Can you keep a time log of exactly when they are playing music, and then
>> note down when you go and speak to them to ask them to turn it down, and
>> what their response is.
>> If you can do this for a couple of weeks then you are in a better
>> position to make a complaint to the authorities.
>> Let me know how it goes.
>> Best wishes
>> Carolyn Neville
>>
>> "Barbara Langridge" <langridge...@gmail.com>: Dec 20 04:06PM +0200
>>
>> Hallo,
>>
>>
>>
>> The City of Cape Town has by laws which stipulate times where noise over
>> a certain level is not acceptable, and a legitimate basis for complaint can
>> be lodged with the authorities.
>>
>>
>>
>> Firstly, check the by laws and times one can expect “peace and quiet”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, speak to your neighbour.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thirdly, are you a property owner, or tenant, and what of the offender?
>> Do they have a landlord you can approach?
>>
>>
>>
>> Logging the times are pointless if they fall outside the hours when noise
>> is permissible, but if the noise is unreasonable after 10.00 pm in the
>> weekdays, and 12.00 midnight over the weekends, then you have a case. Just
>> check those hours as well, that was the law the last time I checked up and
>> I don’t know if there have been and changes since.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obsnw@googlegroups.com [mailto:obsnw@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Carolyn Neville
>> Sent: 20 December 2016 03:41 PM
>> To: Mithila Orna
>> Cc: The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch
>> Subject: Re: [obsnw] Need solution of Noisy problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Mithila
>>
>> Where do you live? Are you renting or are you an owner? Are the people
>> upstairs renting? Do you know who the landlord is?
>>
>> What times of the day are they playing music?
>>
>> Can you keep a time log of exactly when they are playing music, and then
>> note down when you go and speak to them to ask them to turn it down, and
>> what their response is.
>>
>> If you can do this for a couple of weeks then you are in a better
>> position to make a complaint to the authorities.
>>
>> Let me know how it goes.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Carolyn Neville
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20

Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

when I saw it in Weekend Argus today I immediately thought it must be an
April Fools Joke , I still find it hard to believe that it's not an
April Fool joke please tell me that it's all a big con ,,,hell I can't
believe this

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:15 PM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Dagga to be legal <#m_-326660360017162369_group_thread_0> - 1 Update
>
> Dagga to be legal
> 
> Trevor Hughes : Apr 01 09:39AM +0200
>
> Perhaps the local constabulary and OBSID officers will take note
>
> Look at the date
>
> Trev
>
>
> March 31 - Cape Town – The Western Cape High Court has made a landmark
> Back to top <#m_-326660360017162369_digest_top>
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> .
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

[stephen van der spuy]

let's see what the newspapers say on Monday

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 7:32 PM, stephen van der spuy <vanderspu...@gmail.com
> wrote:

> when I saw it in Weekend Argus today I immediately thought it must be an
> April Fools Joke , I still find it hard to believe that it's not an
> April Fool joke please tell me that it's all a big con ,,,hell I can't
> believe this
>
> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:15 PM, <obsnw@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> obsnw@googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>  Google
>> Groups
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email/#!overview>
>> Topic digest
>> View all topics
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/topics>
>>
>>- Dagga to be legal
>><#m_256679152301390133_m_-326660360017162369_group_thread_0> - 1
>>Update
>>
>> Dagga to be legal
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/obsnw/t/47b4dd3f1775e4d9?utm_source=digest_medium=email>
>> Trevor Hughes <tghug...@gmail.com>: Apr 01 09:39AM +0200
>>
>> Perhaps the local constabulary and OBSID officers will take note
>>
>> Look at the date
>>
>> Trev
>>
>>
>> March 31 - Cape Town – The Western Cape High Court has made a landmark
>> Back to top <#m_256679152301390133_m_-326660360017162369_digest_top>
>> You have received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for
>> this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!forum/obsnw/join>
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an
>> email to obsnw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>
>

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[obsnw] Re: MAKULU LODGE

[stephen van der spuy]

I don't think anyone in the community will think badly of Barbara ,,, she's
already proved her worth

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Thea Nicole de Klerk <
thea.nicole...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> As a single mother of three children who she has solely managed to educate
> and aid through all our trials and tribulations, Barbara is an incredible
> woman and major benefactor of time and contribution to the Observatory
> community, and who has over the past three years transformed Makulu Lodge
> into what it is today, investing hundreds of hours into it and often
> putting her own needs aside for the sake of lodge tenants' happiness. For
> anyone who might know her, although a strong minded and outspoken woman,
> she does nothing but good for those around her, and I hope that this email
> can perhaps quell any negativity that any might have toward her. I urge one
> and all to think twice about a foreign investor who perhaps stepped foot on
> the property all of twice in the past three years, and who considers
> Barbara's single handed hard work to create a successful business as
> 'disregard'.
>
> I never impose on other people's business but I feel very strongly about
> this case and hope that everyone who reads this knows that there are always
> two sides to every story.
>
> Thank you and all the best,
>
> Thea de Klerk
> Proud Observatory Neighbour, Proud South African, and Proud Daughter
>
> On 30 May 2017 at 12:22, Makulu Lodge  wrote:
>
>> Dear all
>>
>>
>>
>> *Please be advised that Makulu Lodge (4/6 Irwell Road, Observatory) is
>> under new management as from 20**th** May 2017.*
>>
>> The owner of the property, Mr Chris Lautre, has taken back ownership of
>> the property and full management of the business.
>>
>>  To give you a brief summary of a long story:-
>>
>> Chris Lautre was the sole investor in both the property and the business
>> and he was the majority owner (75%) of the property for the past 3 years.
>> Unfortunately Barbara believed the property and the business belonged to
>> herself and ran the Lodge for her own benefit with total disregard for the
>> majority owner’s investment in the property and business. After a
>> protracted legal dispute this has now been resolved and Chris Lautre is now
>> the sole owner of Makulu Lodge.
>>
>>  Please note that Barbara Anne Langridge is no longer associated with
>> Makulu Lodge in any way.
>>
>>
>> If you need to contact Makulu Lodge, please use the following contacts: -
>>
>> General Enquiries and Bookings: - email the Manager, Paula Sher on
>> i...@makululodge.com
>>
>> Assistant Manager: - Victor Imbaydzo on vic...@makululodge.com
>>
>> Accounts:-  email Michelle Roëbert on accou...@makululodge.com
>>
>> Owner: - ch...@lautre.ee
>>
>>
>>
>> Yours sincerely
>>
>> Chris, Paula, Michelle and Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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