Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/10/07, Simon Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/9/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 06:06:30PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: On 9/7/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ack! How the heck did I forget hspeak? No wonder I had room for madplay+oggenc :( Good news! We forgot UPX! After running game and custom through UPX on brute force strength (eclipsed only by the ULTRA-BRUTE setting in terms of CPU wastage) I managed add madplay, oggenc, plotdictionary.html and whatsnew.txt into the floppy package with just 37kb of floppy space to spare. Yes, it takes several minutes to compress each of game and custom, but we're only doing it once. Why did you leave whatsnew.txt out anyway? Forgot again? The commands: (should we add upx.exe to /support?) upx --brute game.exe upx --brute custom.exe Interesting. I had totally abandoned UPX, because when I last tried it (years ago) compressing with UPX compressed EXEs always resulted in ZIP compression what was worse than if I had never used UPX... but I didn't know about --brute, and I guess UPX's compression algorithms could have improved since then. I had a 2002 version of UPX. Updating, I found they greatly simplified the commandline options (--brute is new), and it seems compression is also a lot better. But UPX does much better than zipping. (.zip is a pretty bad format anyway) See below (If we were really desperate to squeeze out extra kB, we could decompress oggenc, madplay and hspeak and recompress them at brute force strength (which tries 36 compression settings), and do SDL_mixer.dll too (compressed dll's can't be shared between programs using the same dll, but this shouldn't be too big a problem for our custom build) Actually, that is probably a good thing. Since we are not installing our dll's system-wide, it is better that they can't be shared with other apps. We could run nightly builds of game and custom through UPX at --best setting too: this shaves about 100kb off the zips, and only takes a couple seconds. The nightyly builds run on a Qemu instance on a MacOS X box, and they are slooow, so it would be a heck of a lot more than a few extra seconds-- but it could still be worth it. What's a floppy disk? Seriously, this machine is now about 9 years old, and I can probably count the number of times I've used a floppy on two hands (in fact, the only occasion I can remember was when I needed some files off my Atari ST, which was a 720k floppy anyway). I use USB drives for carrying things around these days, and my smallest capacity is 16Mb. I don't have a USB drive, I burn CDs for large stuff (since it is generally things that I would like a backup of anyway), use networks, and occasionally floppies when windows dies or I boot into pure DOS or I want to use an old 486 I have lying around. I really don't see the point in spending a lot of time on this. Well, if anyone uses it they'd might like those utilities. If it's scrapped, I think we could still do with ohrrpgce_play, since a lot of OHR games come without (or with old builds of) Game, and the full distribution is quite large. I'm sure UPX compression can be beaten by non-executable compression, such as the free open-source 7zip. Is this distribution supposed to be executable from the floppy or just unpackable from the floppy? OK, I tried out 7zip: Using game.exe at various UPX compression, and trying zip -9, 7zip (ultra, deflate), winrar (best compression) to produce .zips, and also a .7z: game.exe: 662,528 bytes zip: 258,250 7zip: 248,607 winrar: 257,933 game.7z: 182,914 game.exe through UPX --best: 208,384 zip: 204,933 game.exe through UPX --brute: 189,952 zip: 187,324 winrar: 187,165 7zip: 186,751 game.7z: 189,264 So UPX --brute shaves 70kb off the zip. 7zip did better .zip compression than anything else, but it was still way off UPX. I should note that UPX tries LZMA, the default algorithm for .7z files., while zips morely use the notsogood deflate algorithm. TMC ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/7/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 03:39:41AM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02AM +0930, David Gowers wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) --- James Paige On my computer it takes about 15 seconds to render plotdict.xml, but I still prefer it to the wiki. The html version will compress down to only a few kB. I don't see any good reason to leave it out even if people didn't have old copies lying around. The full package and installers are meant to include everything you need to make a game, and plotscripting documentation is definitely part of that. The slowness of plotdict.xml is a good point. it takes about 12 seconds on my very-fast work computer. (Also, I still use Hssed, but I don't normally use its help function) Funny, that was the only feature of HssEd that I missed when I started doing my plotscripting in SciTE Actually, what exactly is the aim of the minimalist .zip? A not insignifigant contingent of OHR users genuinely wants to put the zip on a floppy to take it home. Remember that the OHR is a low-system requirement program, that makes it attractive to people who still use floppies for things. Of course, feedback on the floppy release of ubersetzung will detemine whether or not we keep doing it in Voxhumana. It doesn't include the necessities for scripting, and the only way to get them is by getting the full distribution, OR a nightly and an HSpeak nightly at the point Ubersetzung was released. A nightly HSpeak after the release may not be compatible. It's sort of more of a ohrrpgce_play with Custom thrown in for examining games. Ack! How the heck did I forget hspeak? No wonder I had room for madplay+oggenc :( Good news! We forgot UPX! After running game and custom through UPX on brute force strength (eclipsed only by the ULTRA-BRUTE setting in terms of CPU wastage) I managed add madplay, oggenc, plotdictionary.html and whatsnew.txt into the floppy package with just 37kb of floppy space to spare. Yes, it takes several minutes to compress each of game and custom, but we're only doing it once. Why did you leave whatsnew.txt out anyway? Forgot again? The commands: (should we add upx.exe to /support?) upx --brute game.exe upx --brute custom.exe (If we were really desperate to squeeze out extra kB, we could decompress oggenc, madplay and hspeak and recompress them at brute force strength (which tries 36 compression settings), and do SDL_mixer.dll too (compressed dll's can't be shared between programs using the same dll, but this shouldn't be too big a problem for our custom build) We could run nightly builds of game and custom through UPX at --best setting too: this shaves about 100kb off the zips, and only takes a couple seconds. TMC ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02AM +0930, David Gowers wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) --- James Paige On my computer it takes about 15 seconds to render plotdict.xml, but I still prefer it to the wiki. The html version will compress down to only a few kB. I don't see any good reason to leave it out even if people didn't have old copies lying around. The full package and installers are meant to include everything you need to make a game, and plotscripting documentation is definitely part of that. (Also, I still use Hssed, but I don't normally use its help function) Actually, what exactly is the aim of the minimalist .zip? It doesn't include the necessities for scripting, and the only way to get them is by getting the full distribution, OR a nightly and an HSpeak nightly at the point Ubersetzung was released. A nightly HSpeak after the release may not be compatible. It's sort of more of a ohrrpgce_play with Custom thrown in for examining games. TMC ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 03:39:41AM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02AM +0930, David Gowers wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) --- James Paige On my computer it takes about 15 seconds to render plotdict.xml, but I still prefer it to the wiki. The html version will compress down to only a few kB. I don't see any good reason to leave it out even if people didn't have old copies lying around. The full package and installers are meant to include everything you need to make a game, and plotscripting documentation is definitely part of that. The slowness of plotdict.xml is a good point. it takes about 12 seconds on my very-fast work computer. (Also, I still use Hssed, but I don't normally use its help function) Funny, that was the only feature of HssEd that I missed when I started doing my plotscripting in SciTE Actually, what exactly is the aim of the minimalist .zip? A not insignifigant contingent of OHR users genuinely wants to put the zip on a floppy to take it home. Remember that the OHR is a low-system requirement program, that makes it attractive to people who still use floppies for things. Of course, feedback on the floppy release of ubersetzung will detemine whether or not we keep doing it in Voxhumana. It doesn't include the necessities for scripting, and the only way to get them is by getting the full distribution, OR a nightly and an HSpeak nightly at the point Ubersetzung was released. A nightly HSpeak after the release may not be compatible. It's sort of more of a ohrrpgce_play with Custom thrown in for examining games. Ack! How the heck did I forget hspeak? No wonder I had room for madplay+oggenc :( --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/5/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02AM +0930, David Gowers wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) You mean there're actually better alternatives now? o.O I've just been using HSSEd! XD I, for one, love the help feature on it. :) ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/6/07, Kizul Emeraldfire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean there're actually better alternatives now? o.O I've just been using HSSEd! XD I, for one, love the help feature on it. :) I've always used notepad, myself... What's this help feature I keep hearing about? (Sounds useful, actually :) ) ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 12:21:24PM -0500, Kizul Emeraldfire wrote: On 9/5/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) You mean there're actually better alternatives now? o.O I've just been using HSSEd! XD I, for one, love the help feature on it. :) Nah, I just use a generic source code editor (SciTE) I think the best way to implement an HssEd replacement might be to write a plug-in for some existing source code editor. --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
Ah! I use SciTE for Ruby. Fantastic program! Hmm... James might know this one best: Are there any editors that support plugins of the kind that link words with the documentation. So, e.g., if you open a script in this editor and hover over suspend player, then it will show a small caption describing the help for that specific segment. Also, are there any which enable auto-complete if you hit some keystroke? (Ctrl + Space) These would be two features I'd really like in a general-purpose text-editor plugin for the OHR. What do other people think about them? --Seth --- James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 12:21:24PM -0500, Kizul Emeraldfire wrote: On 9/5/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) You mean there're actually better alternatives now? o.O I've just been using HSSEd! XD I, for one, love the help feature on it. :) Nah, I just use a generic source code editor (SciTE) I think the best way to implement an HssEd replacement might be to write a plug-in for some existing source code editor. --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/5/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 06:33:50PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! You forgot to include the sample RPGs in the release candidate ful .zip and windows installer! That was intentional. We need to upload those to the wiki, and direct-link them from the relevant tutorials. Well... ok :( Also, I think the minimal .zip should include ohrrpgce.new. It compresses to nothing, and is require both for upgrading and new games! Ouch! Thanks for noticing that one. I'll fix it for RC4 Incidentally, when Game upgrades an RPG, does it require ohrrpgce.new for really old games? When upgrading games older than May 8 2000, the upgrade sub uses ohrrpgce.new to get the default vehicles. If it can't find the .new file, it will just leave out the default vehicles. Oh wait, it won't be required anyway. --- James Paige James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. TMC ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02AM +0930, David Gowers wrote: On 9/6/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 08:15:48AM -0700, James Paige wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 07:57:27PM +1200, Ralph Versteegen wrote: James! James! You forgot plotdictionary.html! I really hope you don't try to justify using the wiki instead. It's just not convenient! The html file has related commands documentated sequentially, normally assuming that you don't need cross links to find relevant commands documented one paragraph down the page. I see the value in having the all-in-one file, but I don't see the advantage of actually including the file. How about if I ad a URL shortcut that points to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml ... actually, I just realized why I still need to include plotdictionary.html ... because a lot of people will be installing right over a previous installation, and if their old plotdict.html doesn't get overwritten with a new one, they will be wondering why they cant find the docs for the new commands (or they won't even know the new commands exist at all) Then why don't you just make plotdict.html contain a single link to http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/docs/plotdict.xml, plus some blurb about new location? generating plotdictionary.html from plotdict.xml is pretty easy, and keeping plotdictionary.html is a courtesy to those who are masochistic enough to keep using hssed :) --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
[Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
Howdy, all! Uberetzung is getting close enough that it is time to start thinking about packaging. Previously, stable releases for windows were made of thee files ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe ohrrpgce.zip (AKA custom.zip) ohrrpgce_play.zip the contents of the installer and the zip were about the same. ohrrpgce_play.zip was the minimal version with just game.exe and some text files. Here is what I envision for Ubersetzung and future releases: ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe This would be the biggest file. It would include game and custom and all support files, as well as the import subdirectory with some sample songs and sfx and fonts, and a copy of Vikings of Midgard (hopefully, if Fenrir is ready) I would expect this file to be fairly big. Probably bigger than 5 mb, but less than 10 mb. Then we would have: ohrrpgce.zip The minimalist distribution. It would just have game and custom and the stuff you need to run them. included Readme files would direct you where to download the sample music and sounds, and where do download Vikings of Midgard (and other games). I am not sure whether madplay+oggenc should be separate or included. This would probably be close to the same size it was for the Hasta-la-qb+ release, since the loss of game-qb and customqb will approximately make up for the new dll files. Then: ohrrpgce_play.zip Should probably go away. (or redirect to ohrrpgce.zip) Beyond those, I can see pros and cons to having other packaging. Are people going to want a minimalist windows installer? Are people going to want a full zip file including Vikings and all the import media? Does the benefit of extra choices outweigh the confusion of which one do I donwload? for new users? --- James Paige ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 8/24/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy, all! Uberetzung is getting close enough that it is time to start thinking about packaging. Previously, stable releases for windows were made of thee files Since there is more than one, the correct grammar is ye files. (No one respects Old English anymore.) ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe ohrrpgce.zip (AKA custom.zip) ohrrpgce_play.zip the contents of the installer and the zip were about the same. ohrrpgce_play.zip was the minimal version with just game.exe and some text files. Here is what I envision for Ubersetzung and future releases: ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe Am I the only one who prefers zips to installers? This would be the biggest file. It would include game and custom and all support files, as well as the import subdirectory with some sample songs and sfx and fonts, and a copy of Vikings of Midgard (hopefully, if Fenrir is ready) Are you going to stop packaging BAMs in import? You should. I would expect this file to be fairly big. Probably bigger than 5 mb, but less than 10 mb. Then we would have: ohrrpgce.zip The minimalist distribution. It would just have game and custom and the stuff you need to run them. included Readme files would direct you where to download the sample music and sounds, and where do download Vikings of Midgard (and other games). I am not sure whether madplay+oggenc should be separate or included. This pleases me. This would probably be close to the same size it was for the Hasta-la-qb+ release, since the loss of game-qb and customqb will approximately make up for the new dll files. Then: ohrrpgce_play.zip Should probably go away. (or redirect to ohrrpgce.zip) Beyond those, I can see pros and cons to having other packaging. Are people going to want a minimalist windows installer? Doubtful. Minimalists don't want an installer. Are people going to want a full zip file including Vikings and all the import media? Does the benefit of extra choices outweigh the confusion of which one do I donwload? for new users? Good point -- maybe the full file, installer and imports and all, can be called OHRRPGCE Game Development Kit or something along those lines to disambiguate. I still want my no-installer zip. ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 12:27:18PM -0700, Adam Perry wrote: On 8/24/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Previously, stable releases for windows were made of thee files Since there is more than one, the correct grammar is ye files. (No one respects Old English anymore.) Forsooth! With a certainty, thou must knowest that mine hands did slip upon this devil's board of prodden letters and whilst it was my most fervent desire to utter the longcrafting of the numeral 3, being; three, I failed and instead spake another word. Am I the only one who prefers zips to installers? No. This would be the biggest file. It would include game and custom and all support files, as well as the import subdirectory with some sample songs and sfx and fonts, and a copy of Vikings of Midgard (hopefully, if Fenrir is ready) Are you going to stop packaging BAMs in import? You should. I might keep one for old time's sake, but mainly, no. Their time has come. Plus, I want to move the import data out of subversion and onto the wiki, and making BAMs uploadble there is too much of a pain. --- James ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 8/24/07, Adam Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/24/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy, all! Uberetzung is getting close enough that it is time to start thinking about packaging. Previously, stable releases for windows were made of thee files Since there is more than one, the correct grammar is ye files. (No one respects Old English anymore.) ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe ohrrpgce.zip (AKA custom.zip) ohrrpgce_play.zip the contents of the installer and the zip were about the same. ohrrpgce_play.zip was the minimal version with just game.exe and some text files. Here is what I envision for Ubersetzung and future releases: ohrrpgce-win-installer.exe Am I the only one who prefers zips to installers? Nope, I do as well. . This would be the biggest file. It would include game and custom and all support files, as well as the import subdirectory with some sample songs and sfx and fonts, and a copy of Vikings of Midgard (hopefully, if Fenrir is ready) Are you going to stop packaging BAMs in import? You should. I would expect this file to be fairly big. Probably bigger than 5 mb, but less than 10 mb. Then we would have: ohrrpgce.zip The minimalist distribution. It would just have game and custom and the stuff you need to run them. included Readme files would direct you where to download the sample music and sounds, and where do download Vikings of Midgard (and other games). I am not sure whether madplay+oggenc should be separate or included. This pleases me. This would probably be close to the same size it was for the Hasta-la-qb+ release, since the loss of game-qb and customqb will approximately make up for the new dll files. Then: ohrrpgce_play.zip Should probably go away. (or redirect to ohrrpgce.zip) Beyond those, I can see pros and cons to having other packaging. Are people going to want a minimalist windows installer? Doubtful. Minimalists don't want an installer. Are people going to want a full zip file including Vikings and all the import media? Does the benefit of extra choices outweigh the confusion of which one do I donwload? for new users? Good point -- maybe the full file, installer and imports and all, can be called OHRRPGCE Game Development Kit or something along those lines to disambiguate. I still want my no-installer zip. Same here. I just like being able to extract everything to whatever directory, et VOILÀ! It's ready to be used. Unlike with installer things where I have to go delete registry entries because I'm not gonna be uninstalling the program, and extraneous shortcuts off of the Start Menu's Programs section because I never use the bloody menu. XD ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
Re: [Ohrrpgce] ubersetzung packaging ideas
On 8/24/07, James Paige [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure whether madplay+oggenc should be separate or included. Include madplay+oggenc always with every distribution. Most Windows users will have absolutely no idea what's going on when you say you need madplay and oggenc. They'll hate googling for it. Even if it is the minimal install, it's still a support library. You'd include ohrrpgce.???, right? :P Based on your idea, I think there should be: ohrrpgce-full-installer.exe (the .exe implies Windows) ohrrpgce-full-win.zip ohrrpgce-minimal.zip For Linux, there's a dozen ways to do it. On Gentoo, OHRRPGCE is seperate packages for game/custom (ohrrpgce-player-wip, ohrrpgce-custom-wip). I don't know how you package it on Debian/Ubuntu. Speaking of which, I still have bunches more work to do on the packaging... -- Keith Gable Lead Programmer / Project Leader The Ignition Project http://www.ignition-project.com/ [Ask me how you can get a free Gmail account - Now with Google Chat!] ___ Ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
