Re: [OpenEgypt:1452] أخبار صناعة المصادر المفتوحةو في الصحف
Hey there, Just a brief intro: I'm a scientist PhD and freelance writer interested in FLOSS and freedom of expression online at large. Some of you here may know me under @MaliciaRogue on Twitter (hey ya Samar :) ). Sorry for speaking English only, my Arabic remains limited to slang and very basic reading (yet). Am currently writing a big piece on this story for Jadaliyya and will anyway continue to follow these developments for other outlets such as Global Voices Advocacy (where I coordinate and write a big part of the MENA Netizen Report http://advocacy.globalvoicesonline.org/author/rayna-st/). As former moderator of the French equivalent of slashdot (== LinuxFr.org), I can also pitch in there anytime I like it and at the length I like it :) Lastly, having being a board member of the biggest French-speaking NGO advocating in favour of free software and having worked as research associate with Unesco on Gender Equality in FLOSS, I'll be happy to help if you guys need input and feedback from elsewhere. France has other issues and Micro$oft's market monopoly is pretty scary here, so I have some experience in outreach and promotion. Hope this helps. Best wishes and Happy New Year :) Rayna 2012/12/31 Ahmad Gharbeia gharb...@gmail.com أظن واجب علينا السعي لإقناع رؤساء أقسام التقنية في الصحف بمتابعة أخبار المصادر المفتوحة عن قرب أكثر، و نفكّر ازاي ممكن نساعدهم في الوصول إلى الأخبار و الترجمة، و بخاصة الأخبار المتعلقة بقطاعات الأعمال و الحكومات و معدلات لاستخدام، ليس فقط الأخبار التقنية. و كذلك أخبار الشركات المصرية. مثلا: http://www.zdnet.com/topic-open-source أحمد غربية -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs.
Re: [OpenEgypt:1477] أي باد لكل وكيل نيابة
Question is that: 1) there is no transparency on what is going on; 2) the Prosecution has no ties whatsoever with the MCIT meaning that it has its own budget; 3) depending on who (== what institution) allocates the Prosecution's budget, they have to be held accountable for this spending by this institution. If the Min of Justice allocates the budget of the Prosecution, this means that the Prosecution spends money coming from taxes, that is people's money. In case these assumptions are correct, it is the institution which handles the taxpayers' contributions that is in charge of agree upon (or not) with such a spending. Btw, is the information about the purchase confirmed by any official statement from the Prosecution? And/or by any other media outlet? My 2 cents, 2013/1/6 Samar Ali newgeneratio...@gmail.com على ما أعتقد أنه كل مسئول بيتصرف حسب الميزانية الموجودة تحت أيديه من اﻵخر بدون الرجوع لقرارات وتوصيات الوزارات الباقية 2013/1/6 Mostafa Hussein most...@gmail.com أحمد، السؤال هنا هو ليه القطاعات المختلفة بالدولة لا تلتزم باستراتيجية تكنولوجيا المعلومات بتاعة وزارة الأتصالات. يعني الحكومة مركزية في كل شيئ ما عدا الشوبنج؟ لأن على كده كل وعود الوزارة ملهاش لازمة لو كل محافظ أو مسئول بيشتري ويشغل اللي هو عاوزه براحته. م. 2013/1/6 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com رأيى اننا نصدر بيان على موضوع الزبالة والموضوع ده.. ونبين ان المقابل المفتوح المصدر (اندرويد) جيد جدا وارخص بكتير.. وفى نفس الوقت نقول ان الزبالة مش محتاجة اكتر من تليفون اندرويد ب 500 جنيه بالكتير. لو اكتر من بيان اعتقد اننا حنتشتت فى اكتر من مواجهة واعتقد ان ده مش فى صالحنا حاليا Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com 2013/1/6 Samar Ali newgeneratio...@gmail.com إحنا نقدر نتصرف أزاي بالنسبة للموضوع؟! 2013/1/6 Moushira Elamrawy moushi...@gmail.com 2013/1/5 Mostafa Hussein most...@gmail.com مر المستشار طلعت إبراهيم النائب العام بالتعاقد مع شركات متخصصة لتوريد أجهزة كمبيوتر “أى باد” لكل عضو نيابة محمل عليها التشريعات والأحكام اللازمة لمباشرة عمله بسرعة ويسر، وللتواصل مع زملائه من خلال شبكة المعلومات الدولية “الإنترنت”. http://onaeg.com/archives/499162 يقدر عدد أعضاء النيابة ب3100 .. يعني الصفقة ثمنها 18 مليون جنيه تقريبا. م. هي المشكة اﻷكبر غير الرقم الخبر إن أوبن إيجبت لو طلبت تطّلع على دراسة أسباب القرار /عشان تعترض بشكل موضوعي معندهاش أي قانون يسمح لها طلب المعلومات. حسب ما قريت (الدستور) الجديد مازال محتفظ بجملة فيما عدا اﻷمن القومي . . . حاجة آخر عك. -- With My Respect, Samar Ali -- With My Respect, Samar Ali -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas
Re: [OpenEgypt:1532] Reddit co-founder's death ignites journal access debate - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Aaron was a great person. RIP. https://hatewasabi.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/freedom-fighter-aaron-swartz-commits-suicide/ 2013/1/14 Ahmed ElHefnawy dr.elhefn...@gmail.com http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-14/activists-suicide-ignites-debate-on-journal-access/4463268 -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas
Re: [OpenEgypt:1611] openvpn.net is BLOCKED
Additional info: not sure what the issue is but one can connect to openvpn.net sometimes. When I ssh to some virtual machine, it allows me to wget ... or not. Also, sometimes the wget works, sometimes it doesn't. The IP address that sends the last hop response (the traceroute log) is openvpn.net home so to speak (its IP is 67.228.116.150). So -- at least, thus far -- it does not seem to be the govt blocking it: it just has issues on its end, in other countries... Rayna 2013/2/17 Rayna rayna...@gmail.com Not sure the traceroute tells you something about blocking. Fact is a traceroute with various options through different ports (80, 22) from Paris stops at exactly the same point (somewhere within the US, guessing around Seattle). They may just have issues there. Rayna 2013/2/17 Mostafa Hussein most...@gmail.com Can't connect to openvpn.net .. connection times out. However this is my traceroute, I am using Noor DSL. I am not an expert in this but seems that traceroute reaches a server in Dallas, Texas and the dies. M. $ traceroute openvpn.net traceroute to openvpn.net (67.228.116.150), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 3.866 ms 3.832 ms 3.816 ms 2 bng.rams.ca (217.139.253.19) 41.483 ms 41.476 ms 46.727 ms 3 172.17.10.98 (172.17.10.98) 67.476 ms 67.478 ms 172.17.10.102 (172.17.10.102) 67.422 ms 4 host-41.33.173.69.tedata.net (41.33.173.69) 67.415 ms 67.393 ms 67.339 ms 5 213.242.116.13 (213.242.116.13) 98.646 ms 98.664 ms 213.242.116.9 (213.242.116.9) 104.711 ms 6 * * * 7 ae-23-23.ebr2.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.143.126) 219.404 ms ae-21-21.ebr2.paris1.level3.net (4.69.143.118) 222.331 ms ae-23-23.ebr2.paris1.level3.net (4.69.143.126) 228.058 ms 8 ae-42-42.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.137.54) 229.909 ms ae-43-43.ebr2.washington1.level3.net (4.69.137.58) 231.914 ms 235.401 ms 9 ae-82-82.csw3.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.154) 237.785 ms 243.621 ms 247.265 ms 10 ae-3-80.edge3.Washington4.Level3.net (4.69.149.146) 255.760 ms ae-2-70.edge3.washington4.level3.net (4.69.149.82) 259.259 ms ae-1-60.edge3.washington4.level3.net (4.69.149.18) 262.997 ms 11 softlayer-t.edge3.washington4.level3.net (4.53.116.66) 264.969 ms 266.859 ms 175.538 ms 12 ae7.bbr02.eq01.wdc02.networklayer.com (173.192.18.195) 175.523 ms 175.510 ms 222.325 ms 13 ae1.bbr02.eq01.chi01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.155) 228.545 ms 233.709 ms 239.805 ms 14 ae1.bbr02.cs01.den01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.131) 248.538 ms 248.575 ms 248.562 ms 15 ae7.bbr01.cs01.den01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.168) 248.508 ms 253.250 ms 253.249 ms 16 ae0.bbr01.wb01.sea02.networklayer.com (173.192.18.144) 262.679 ms 262.703 ms 262.690 ms 17 ae0.dar01.sr01.sea01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.199) 236.509 ms ae0.dar02.sr01.sea01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.159) 236.474 ms ae0.dar01.sr01.sea01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.199) 240.017 ms 18 po2.fcr01.sr01.sea01.networklayer.com (67.228.118.138) 234.613 ms po1.fcr01.sr01.sea01.networklayer.com (67.228.118.134) 244.078 ms 237.931 ms 19 * * * [...] 30 * * * On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Ahmed Kamal email.ahmedka...@googlemail.com wrote: meh! but that doesn't even make much sense, as openvpn.net is not a public vpn endpoint On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com wrote: openvpn.net is blocked in Egypt. this can mean lots of things.. larger blocking coming? seems that google issue is getting serious --- Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO www.SpirulaSystems.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups
Re: [OpenEgypt:1633] Re: censorship explanation materials
Hi, Although I find Mohamed's approach pretty exhaustive, I'm not sure one could comprehensively talk about this during a TV show. These are pretty thorough and high-voltage questions which, when approached in this very quickdirty way as during a TV show, repel the people and give them the impression everything is so complicated and doesn't concern them at all. You need to find a much more low-level approach, so to speak. Which may be: what is censorship, why do I need to circumvent it, and how does the govt know what to censor? These are three pretty different yet intimately related questions. You need to explain why the govt (or a company) may want to censor content on the web. In the case of a company, for instance, the censorship may be explained by we block Facebook cuz we don't want our employees to waste their time there, which will be considered as OK by most of the people. If you speak of govts censoring politically-motivated content, you need to *really* well define in which cases this happens. Then, this immediately calls the question of circumvention. Many will react that the company has the right to do so, and that there is nothing you can do legally, so you are actually infringing your work contract by circumventing. This is a defendable or not position, you can discuss it, but the conditions are that you do have a contract with a company which rules this kinds of things as well. The question is much trickier when it boils down to politically motivated censorship. What is it? How do you prove it so? No need to go in China: have a look at Qatar, KSA, Bahrain, UAE, keda. In the case of govt censoring politically incorrect content and the circumvention of such censorship are clearly a form of disobedience. This is a point people don't always get: they'll just mock the officials as idiots and tell them I can use a proxy. Sure, but this is a somewhat dull reaction... Which brings the question of surveillance, right. Which is imho THE issue when it comes to censorship. Censoring content is the consequence of the govt/company knowing your internet habits. How do they know this? Aslan, by spying you... Do I need to tell the story about FinFisher? Or Ammar 404 in Tunisia? Etc. This part of the story is something people don't think of at all. Or when you talk to them, they generally react as: well, I have nothing to hide, so they can always have a look. Which is wrong. You need to argue on this to make the point of the red line that must not be crossed by the govt when it boils down to people's personal communications. (Again, for the company, it is different cuz one can assume that your workstations belongs to the company, so if they want to dig your web browsing while you work on this station, it is their right. Whether one finds this cool or not is a totally different question.) Lastly, if you want to speak of copyright-motivated censorship, I do advise you to adopt a vocabulary that speaks to anyone, and to have a few very easy-to-get examples. Yet this part is really tricky as copyright-based internet regulations are a nightmare and don't really concern Egypt thus far. I'd much more get into a discussion of cybercrime provisions (see Iraq, UAE), the ongoing discussions around the EU Directive on the topic + the EU Data Protection directive that is being reformed atm, CISPA in the USA. These all touch to -- putting it simply -- transposing the penal laws that govern our everyday offline life to the transborder and governmentless internet. With this respect, you may be interested to get the troll going around the ITU ;) Not sure this is clear, as I ignore anything about your knowledge of the above + the indications that have been given by the people from the TV. But hope this is useful :) Rayna 2013/2/21 unixmecha...@gmail.com Hi Ahmed, I don't have any materials ready but If I were you I would try to: 1-The internet as a large scale network with few points of controls and highlight that both good and bad(for various definitions of good and bad) content and usage exist 2-Censorship, both as an act of controlling information/content flow and the motivations, broken down to Political, Legal, Moral and how that affects the censorship techniques. 2.A- Various examples for the different types : China's censorship of Facebook, Netflix or Youtube blocking certain media content in certain countries because of legal/licensing issues, Restriction of content based because of legal reasons like Export control. 3-Regimes and governments most often associated with censorship: totalitarian regimes 4-Censorshop techniques : ISP managed, Server side managed, Routing based, Transparent and non transparent proxies. 5-Determining if you are being censored 5-Bypassing the censors, VPNs, SSL/SSH tunneling, proxies, anonymous proxies and the risks associated with them. P2P anonymity networks as a mean to bypass censorship. 6-The cost of censorship, in terms of latency, computing
Re: [OpenEgypt:1708] Open Patent Non-Assertion Pledge by Google
Thanks for the notification :) I'd be cautious: although it is a good step forward, it only encompasses 10 patents (all related to MapReduce which has already caused issues: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/01/googles-mapreduce-patent-what-does-it-mean-for-hadoop/). Google says it may someday extend this to other patents but nothing sure for now. Ofc, Google has already taken stance in favour of a patent reform to 'foster innovation', as they phrase it, which is an anti patent troll strategy: http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.fr/2013/02/lets-defend-innovators-against-patent.html. They've come up with these four licensing strategies each trying to limit what a patent holder can do: http://www.google.com/patents/licensing/comparison/ To be honest, as I said, the Pledge is a good step forward. It does not -- nor does Google's work in favour of patent reform -- address the fundamental issue of software patents, a non-sense by design. My 2 cents, 2013/3/30 mosab.ah...@gmail.com mosab.ah...@gmail.com Hi all, Google has started an initiative. They pledge not to sue any open source developer if he/she/they infringe Google patents unless he/she/they start assault on Google, and they encourage other people to take the same pledge. http://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/ --* Mosab Ahmad * Entrepreneur in the make Cell : +201119942443 E-mail : mosab.ah...@gmail.com LinkedIn : http://www.linkedin.com/in/mosab github : https://github.com/mos3abof -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [OpenEgypt:1765] Openegypt wiki
Good to have it set up but why does it require login? And ok, sending login and password on a public mailing-list is not the most secure thing to do ;) Rayna 2013/4/9 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com Hi all, in case someone didn't notice my reply on the email before, here's our wiki, which is still empty till the moment of writing this: http://wiki.openegypt.net username: openegypt password: openegypt123 Thanks, Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [OpenEgypt:1775] Openegypt wiki
That's cool, thanks :) Will handle this thing during the week-end (my week-end ya3ni, starting tomorrow evening ;) ). Nighty, 2013/4/10 Rehab Massoud rehab.mass...@gmail.com I can volunteer, but it's my first web-page administration experience ever. Besides, I won't be available during working hours; is this ok? On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:33:14 AM UTC+2, Ahmed Mekkawy wrote: Seems like a plan to me :-) Create a user on the wiki and tell me your username to grant you all privileges. Guys, any volunteers to help Rayna in this? On Apr 9, 2013 11:11 PM, Rayna rayn...@gmail.com wrote: I can lend a hand but -- from experience -- one person can quickly be overwhelmed. There may be a lot of spam (for which I have scripts but they are really brute force :) ) and if you get to have more than 5-6 people editing the wiki regularly, you need 2 people to administrate it. So, I can help but I'd need a second person, and preferably who's fluent in Arabic. Cuz I am guessing (extensive knowledge of) slang only rarely helps in such a venture ;) Rayna 2013/4/9 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed@spirulasystems.**com http://www.wikihow.com/Become-**a-Wikipedia-Administratorhttp://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Wikipedia-Administrator Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:28 PM, AMahdy AbdElAziz ama...@gmail.comwrote: I believe pages on wikipedia do not have admin/admins, do they? -- AMahdy AbdElAziz http://www.AMahdy.net On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed@spirulasystems.**com wrote: AMahdy, I understand. it would be great if someone stands up for administrating the wiki. It would be more than great. I suggest that we remove the authentication whenever we found this one :) Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:17 PM, AMahdy AbdElAziz ama...@gmail.comwrote: Mekkawy: I didn't mean to ask you in specific. You are not supposed to admin everything. Let the community do that, the same way wikipedia is operated for example. Just a suggestion and again up to the community here to decide. -- AMahdy AbdElAziz http://www.AMahdy.net On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed@spirulasystems.**com wrote: Samar, No, you have to create a new account. AMahdy and Rayna, Well I don't believe that opening the site is the best solution, as I see that we'll get poisoned by ones who are not of our interest. I'm not worried about reading but I'm worried about writing. The best solution IMHO is to remove the user/pass and make the registration by approval, and require login for editing. I totally understand that this isn't a real security measure, a basic authentication on an http website is so unsecure anyway. About AMahdy's suggestion that I watch over the wiki, actually I don't have time to filter the registration, not the data. If anyone is interested to have all privileges to do that, then please say so. Anyway I can remove the authentication if people here see them useless. Thanks, Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Rayna rayn...@gmail.com wrote: Good to have it set up but why does it require login? And ok, sending login and password on a public mailing-list is not the most secure thing to do ;) Rayna 2013/4/9 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed@spirulasystems.**com Hi all, in case someone didn't notice my reply on the email before, here's our wiki, which is still empty till the moment of writing this: http://wiki.openegypt.net username: openegypt password: openegypt123 Thanks, Ahmed Mekkawy Founder | CTO Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+...@**googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/** groups/opt_out https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/**raynashttp://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+...@**googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_outhttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+...@**googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_outhttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you
Re: [OpenEgypt:1792] OpenEgypt portal preview
Hi :) Comments inline. 2013/4/14 unixmecha...@gmail.com: Hi Rayna, A few things to note: 1-This is only a staging site, not final production decision. Never said the opposite. And so? :) 2-The license controversial status is in itself a debatable statement, depending on whether you see copyleft to be more free than liberal styled licensed. however I think the limitation of non-derivative work is a secondary concern so is the non-commercial use. Wait, you are mixing stuff. First: the NC and ND clauses have been widely denounced as non-free, by many in the FOSS and free culture communities at large. (People have even written alternative licenses to support and widen the -by-SA type, but this is another discussion.) I am sorry to disappoint you but I do consider that a content/site/whatever which is distributed under either -by-NC or -by-ND or under -by-NC-ND is non-free. In the definition of free software, you have the freedoms to use, study, modify and do whatever you like, which includes sell. So, by not allowing some of these -- that is, what NC and ND and their combination do -- you restrict certain freedoms. Which, imho, is not acceptable: either we defend all freedoms or just some of them. Second, the goal of the website has nothing to do with the license under which the CMS running it is released. These are totally unrelated. Third, what does liberal styled license mean? Lastly, NC and ND are totally independent clauses. So, your very last sentence is irrelevant and invalid :) 3-I never thought of wordpress as a CMS, it is a great blogging engine but that is where I see it. on drupal or joomla, we could swing either way. I am personally a ruby/python guy for lightweight web projects but it might be more challenging to find more people to support/customize radiantCMS for example. What does it mean a CMS is a great blogging tool but that is where I see it? A CMS -- *content* management, that is -- just does this: handles content. Regardless of the content ya3ni. 4-The world doesn't end by choosing a CMS that we think later we should change, version 2.0 of anything is always better so as long as we start somewhere and succeed enough to need 2.0 then we will cross that bridge when we get there. Er, I beg to disagree. It is volunteer community. Migrating a website with content and stuff is a sheer volume of work, I will certainly avoid doing it if I can. And this means choosing the CMS wisely. 5-Typo3 has fairly easy to manage admin interface for content editor/site administrator I thought that was a big advantage. Why not taking Wordpress then? if this is the only advantage of Typo3, then it is not an advantage cuz it is already a basic feature of many others :) Bottom line is that it's better to take a CMS that the biggest number of contributors know how to work with rather than something that's just cool. Don't forget that the entry barrier must be as low as possible in order not to restrict people willing to help but not knowing how to use the tool. 6-This is still on staging, if there are volunteers who want to setup drupal or joomla so we can try before we buy that is great. if not, as mentioned in #4, we can move forward and come back to that later. I beg to disagree again :) To me, we need to prototype and set up needs then match tools to these. Not take one tool and try to shoehorn stuff into it, then decide to engage into even more time- and effort-requiring direction. Sorry to sound kinda harsh, it is not my intention, written communication has its limits ;) Just that I've been seeing this kind of discussions a countless number of times and communities getting stuck and drawn back by endless discussions on tools without identifying needs and targets. Talk laterz, and belhanna to all these who are going to have dinner :) Rayna Regards Mohamed On Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:43:16 PM UTC+2, Rayna / Malicia wrote: Hey Mohamed et al, Thanks for taking care of this. I have a few questions: * what exactly motivated you to use a CMS which is distributed under the controversial -by-NC-ND license? :) * what are the advantages and disadvantages of this CMS in comparison to Drupal, WordPress, keda? Thanks, Rayna 2013/4/13 unixme...@gmail.com: Hi, I setup Typo3 on a VPS. There is not much content but that will build up over time. It is now in staging environment, before we move it to be the official site, would like to get feedback from the community http://5.9.149.155/ Regards Mohamed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://de.linkedin.com/in/raynas -- You received this message because you
Re: [OpenEgypt:2006] Self criticism: an open letter to Egyptian FOSS community
Hi Ahmed and al, Thank you for the email, Ahmed. Many of us have been there, very few have been brave enough to face the situation. Since it's going on the opening up way, why not sharing all these things you say have remained behind closed doors? :) Rayna 2013/12/30 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com Hi everybody, I was thinking about the evolving of the FOSS movement in Egypt and my contribution to it. Not that I was thinking about how good I did, but about what wrong did I do. It then stroke me lots of mistakes that seemed small then, but combining them showed me that I was actually deviating the direction I should have followed. My only good thing that I was doing this not for my personal benefit, but with the intention of speeding it up in rough times in Egypt. Anyway this still doesn't seem to be a fair deal for the idea, or for the FOSS communities and believers. In this email I will try to show it up, for the sake of the things I violated. FOSS is about collaboration, transparency, and equal opportunity. These are the real values that derives the four freedoms and the open source definition. These are what ensures users freedom through many implementation techniques in the models I am aware of, free software and open source software. I will start when I became one of the three admins in EGLUG, the LUG was pretty much dying then - and still is -. Though it had great legacy and even greater charter, but the effort needed for bringing it up was huge. I was more or less the main player then, everyone else was either busy or exhausted from the previous years. I was actually suggesting, modifying, and executing the activities and sometimes even the discussions. True that the LUG did some good activities at that time, but the outcome wasn't a sustainable entity. Symptoms were showing pretty obvious back then: all activities were in Alex were I lived, and I was in the heart of all of them. Tried to create a second line LUGgers, but I failed. What did I miss there? That was my first mistake, losing collaboration. That was something that the original creators of EGLUG focused on, and I failed to sustain. This didn't show up much cause the LUG was dying anyway and I gave it a last minute life kiss, and it worked for few years. So everyone was thankful and I didn't have enough criticism to stop me from what I was doing. My next encounter was creating my private company, where I made mistakes as well but let's keep this email focused about community work for now. Then it was the revolution, and the first meeting for me with the late Dr. Ali Shaath and the immediate support by Dr. Naglaa Rizk. That was when we decided to create the Egyptian Open Source Forum (EOSF) as suggested by Ali. Again he was seeing clearly it's about collaboration. Then the name changed, and it became OpenEgypt. At first few meetings, a governmental entity tried to claim credit for unifying the FOSS community in a public speech, two other NGOs tried to make OpenEgypt a subsidiary (I'm not questioning their intentions though). And we were expecting to be penetrated by all kind of entities soon, which partially happened later. After few meetings, it was clear that formulating a strategy in such big circle and trying to involve everyone including the ones who don't have strategic vision is more of a waste of time. We needed a small circle to draft, and the big crowd to feedback and evaluate. So it was decided to have a small number that play both roles, to work on the strategy and be the founders of the NGO. The idea of the NGO is to have an official entity that can address the government, deal with other Egyptian or international entities. It was chosen to be in the most opened legal form available, and planned for the founders to lose control quickly: half of them to be normal members after 3 years, and the rest after another 3 years. This is the quickest way in the Egyptian law. All of this planning was good IMHO, especially that there was a call for founders on the public mailing list. Anyway the mistakes started from then, the criteria of founders selection wasn't public, the names of the chosen founders were not declared in public. While the founders were trying to address ministries and other entities for FOSS directions, the community which we claim to work for its benefit didn't know anything about it. Another more major setback in transparency was forming MCIT's strategy group. MCIT called for a group to draft a strategy towards FOSS. Though it's logical that such choice is to be behind closed doors due to the government's nature - though we didn't make a better job in choosing OpenEgypt's founders -, but it wasn't logical not to tell the community about the forming of such consultancy group. The community knew after the protest of Micro$oft's deal with the Egyptian government. Moreover, we succeeded in convincing MCIT to involve
Re: [OpenEgypt:2021] Re: OpenEgypt NGO
Hey, Happy New Year and all dat. Thanks for the details, Mekkawy. In light of recent clarifications, my question remains: is OpenEgypt supposed to be a community or is it supposed to be a think tank? Because thus far I see many features for a think tank but (nearly?) none for a community. Rayna 2014/1/5 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com اسلام، فيه ايميل تانى اتبعت امبارح، اقراه من فضلك Ahmed Mekkawy CTO | Founder Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Eslam Farid es...@vision-as.com wrote: مازلت في انتظار الكلام هنا.. جزاكم الله خيرا. On Wednesday, 1 January 2014 13:53:35 UTC+3, Eslam Farid wrote: شكرا يا أحمد وفي انتظار اني أسمع منك، وأرجوا فعلا انك تكتب بالعربي .. جزاك الله خيرا. On Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:57:45 UTC+3, Ahmed Mekkawy wrote: I'll try in this email to dump my info about this topic, so please ask me if anything seems to be missing. In anything other than official info, I'm saying my own openion, not OpenEgypt's official one. لو أى شخص متضايق من كلامى باللغة الانجليزية يقول. OpenEgypt is an NGO under establishment, with currently 10 founders after the loss of Ali Shaath. This shouldn't be mixed with MCIT FOSS strategy group, which consists of governmental employees, private sector representative, and independant consultants. First, OpenEgypt founders are as follows, in alphabetical order, with due respect: - The late Ali Shaath. - Ahmed ElEzabi. - Ahmed ElHefnawy. - Ahmed Hussein. - Ahmed Mekkawy. - Diaa Radwan. - Haitham Nabil. - Manal Hassan. - Mahmoud Tawfik. - Naglaa Rizk. - Sherif ElKassas. I'm not sure that I'm the best one to introduce everyone of the founders, so I invite everyone of them to introduce himself. But in short I believe that they are all great minds with diversed backgrounds. Currently we have one employee in OpenEgypt, which is Samar Ali, in the role of coordinator. The first coordinator, which was Ahmed Koraiiem, was working on volunteeraly basis. The place is donated from ADEF, the NGO founded by the late Ali Shaath. The fund for OE is till now solely by the founders donations. The agreed amount at first was EGP 5k per founder. Currently OE had spent slightly more than 50% of its money. Spendings are only on Samar's salary, the paper work for establishment of the NGO, and similar stuff. The official name for the NGO is الجمعية المصرية للبرمجيات الحرة, and in english it's OpenEgypt. Till the moment the official establishment was not complete, and here we are back to square zero as the papers has to be all remade, cause of the loss of Ali. But I expect the paper to be smoother as we already got some approvals that should be automatically granted this time. The aim of OE isn't clearly written yet, we are currently working on defining the missing points. The main idea is clear though, it's to work on a strategic direction to create a FOSS ecosystem in Egypt, even if it's a small one in the beginning. This means that OE shouldn't be redoing what users group does, it should rather focus on coordinating their efforts, work with government entities and private sector, and of course universities. This work should be targeting the decision makers rather than targeting users base. This isn't a preference for change, but it's a trial to complete what user groups does and open the closed doors for them. About MCIT group, will send this tomorrow isA. Seems I will have the habit of a daily email to this group Ahmed Mekkawy CTO | Founder Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://me.hatewasabi.info/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [OpenEgypt:2030] Re: OpenEgypt NGO
Hey again, Building upon this exchange and emails piling up in the sister thread makes me think (correct me if I'm wrong): * for you, Mekkawy, and for most of the people who've spoken so far, OE is and has to continue to be a think tank/lobby/advocacy org (you name it); * the only types of community you envision are either a GLUG (sorry, I always use GNU/Linux User Group) or a developers' group. Which gets me thinking: 1/ why would you artificially impose boundaries such as what activities define or not a community? 2/ why is the alleged institutional work only done in favour of open source and not in favour of open knowledge in general? 3/ what exactly is understood under open source, who's set up these limits and when did the community (ie, the people on this list to start with) agree with? 4/ what's exactly the job of a community coordinator (== what tasks was the person having this position supposed to accomplish) and until when is the respective contract going? My question #1 actually relates to the different activities envisioned (or not) here. Outreach, event organisation, content production, training, hacking, etc. are all activities that communities do. It may sound blunt and harsh, but I fail to believe you'll achieve great change on the ground only through drafting strategies and white papers. France is the only country in the EU -- and perhaps in the world -- where a law imposes a preference for FLOSS solutions for all publicly funded research institutions. The law was not just voted, but also promulgated which means each and every of these institutions has to apply it. I let you guess the outcome (hint: none does). And why? Well, very simple: because the majority has no idea whatsoever this exists, what it means and -- most importantly -- how to comply with. Why? Cuz there's nearly nobody out there to do outreach and training. And we are speaking of the country that has one of the strongest FLOSS communities worldover. Ofc, if such a law -- and other previous successes against software patents in the EU -- existed, it's precisely because there was some serious institutional work ongoing. But there are very few people who do just this, the overwhelming majority of the community being busy with geeking out and outreach. There's an event, even a small one, every week. There are wikis and wikis with people translating content, producing their own. There are Ubuntu Parties twice a year in major cities, and for having been in the core team of the Parisian editions for 2 years, we get these happening with nearly no money (I think less than 100 euros was the biggest we've spent) and with volunteers only. Each Parisian editons brings between 2,000 and 4,000+ people over a week-end. Thus, you understand my confusion when I read emails where people spill ink (actually bits) telling how the only community that could make it is a think tank to draft national strategies that mention how lovely it'd be to use open source and cloud (thus, SaaS) in the country. Apologies if this sounds blunt and harsh, but that's delirious :) It doesn't mean your work is bullshit, it means that limiting the possible options is insane and irrational when there's a heavy bunch of challenges ahead. In no way should someone be put-off from participating but this is what happens (and this is a part of the rationale behind your _mea culpa_, Mekkawy). Being part of the civil society that stands its grounds when it boils down to policy-making is one thing. Limit and lock such activities as the only possible way forward is dangerous -- and here I agree with Eslam's stance that such deeds are contrary to the values that make up FLOSS. I am sorry my Arabic doesn't allow me to explicit these thoughts, yet I believe the language won't put people off and others will chim in anyway so that the discussion remains constructive. Best, Rayna 2014/1/5 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com Hey Rayna, Happy new year for you. Actually what I sent till now is more of headlines, but I can't say the details of 2 years in an email, will keep sending whatever comes to my mind. Well OpenEgypt isn't a users group, nor a developers group, if that's what you are asking about. I didn't actually classify it, but yeah the current role is more of a think tank and interfacing FOSS communities with the government. It's valid to do more roles later, but it's meant that it shouldn't be competing with users group, but rather empowering them. I see the future of OE to include planning, coordinating between users groups, even lobbying, or all/none of that. No solid idea yet. Ahmed Mekkawy CTO | Founder Spirula Systems www.spirulasystems.com On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, Happy New Year and all dat. Thanks for the details, Mekkawy. In light of recent clarifications, my question remains: is OpenEgypt supposed to be a community or is it supposed to be a think tank? Because thus
Re: [OpenEgypt:2035] Re: OpenEgypt NGO
Hi, Thanks for swift response. More - inline. 2014/1/6 Ahmed Mekkawy ahmed.mekk...@spirulasystems.com [snip] On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Hey again, Building upon this exchange and emails piling up in the sister thread makes me think (correct me if I'm wrong): * for you, Mekkawy, and for most of the people who've spoken so far, OE is and has to continue to be a think tank/lobby/advocacy org (you name it); Not really, everything is discussable and modifiable. Ok, so what about setting up a pad (or using the wiki) to start putting together ideas? * the only types of community you envision are either a GLUG (sorry, I always use GNU/Linux User Group) or a developers' group. These are the only types of communities that currently exist in Egypt, not the only types that can be. Yes, but beware the way you express it cuz it sounds like it's this or that, khalas. And given that the rare co-founders who've spoken out so far keep this rhetoric consistent, it reads (from afar) that no other options are ok. Which gets me thinking: 1/ why would you artificially impose boundaries such as what activities define or not a community? I didn't. The community defines its activities not vice versa. See my remark above. 2/ why is the alleged institutional work only done in favour of open source and not in favour of open knowledge in general? Open knowledge is important indeed, it's just a matter of focus, not ignorance. Elaborate? 3/ what exactly is understood under open source, who's set up these limits and when did the community (ie, the people on this list to start with) agree with? I don't understand what limits you mean. Usually we talk about FOSS/FLOSS, not open source. When this started it was under the slogan For an Egyptian strategy towards FOSS, and it was kicked off in a meeting. :) Don't be naive, Mekkawy. A slogan is just this: a slogan. My question is a different way of speaking of ethical guidelines and values the community abinds to. The link you pointed the other day reads more like a NGO rules, not as a charter wich values the community must respect and act in agreement with. Ethics-wise you can imagine different things that preserve the principles the community is said to protect, e.g. not using proprietary software for the NGO and community activities. (There was a discussion several months ago about this if I recall correctly.) 4/ what's exactly the job of a community coordinator (== what tasks was the person having this position supposed to accomplish) and until when is the respective contract going? It's not a _community_ coordinator, the position is about admin work for the NGO mainly, meetings coordination, official papers handling, ... etc. It's a monthly contract so it can be stopped anytime with a 30 days notice. Oh ok, that's clearer. My question #1 actually relates to the different activities envisioned (or not) here. Outreach, event organisation, content production, training, hacking, etc. are all activities that communities do. It may sound blunt and harsh, but I fail to believe you'll achieve great change on the ground only through drafting strategies and white papers. France is the only country in the EU -- and perhaps in the world -- where a law imposes a preference for FLOSS solutions for all publicly funded research institutions. The law was not just voted, but also promulgated which means each and every of these institutions has to apply it. I let you guess the outcome (hint: none does). I totally agree. Strategies and similar stuff doesn't change anything by itself. The idea of OpenEgypt is to facilitate other communities (and even FOSS companies) work. If other communities stopped working then OE is useless. It's more of completing other communities work, not replacing them. So if we are talking about something like an installfest, OE should help the other community that does it, but not do it by itself, or at least that was the main idea. I disagree. If tomorrow I want to be part of the NGO and -- as such -- hold an installparty in Tantaa cuz I happen to be there for holidays, who will stop me? Or do I have to wait for a community to be kicked off in Tantaa to be allowed to hold such an event? Sorry, but that's insane :) This is where I speak about limits. I really fail to understand why you insist on constraining and limiting the scope and reach of activities. The basics when it boils down to sharing information is that people do it as they see fit. If it goes through an event, ok. If it goes through community building, ok. If it goes through translat'party, ok. Ofc, it's always better to involve people from other communities, but the two are not exclusive in any way. [snip] Thus, you understand my confusion when I read emails where people spill ink (actually bits) telling how the only community that could make it is a think tank to draft
Re: [OpenEgypt:2050] Meetup next week?
Tab, sounds good :) Lets say starting at 6pm so that people working elsewhere during the day can make It. Who is up for setting up a draft agenda? (Which doesn't leave out a casual discussion ofc :) ) Thanks, Rayna P. S. Brevity and typos courtesy of HTC Le 26 janv. 2014 02:27, Ahmed Koraiem amkora...@gmail.com a écrit : in On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Dr. Ahmed ElHefnawy dr.elhefn...@gmail.com wrote: I think, I can make it too. I have some homework to do however, before the meeting. Wish me good luck.. على 25/01/2014 03:07 م, كتب Ahmed Mekkawy: great. tueaday/wedneaday is cool with me. On Jan 25, 2014 12:49 PM, Samar Ali newgeneratio...@gmail.com wrote: It would be great if it's in Tuesday or Wednesday! Let's organize it! :) On 25 January 2014 12:41, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Hey everyone, A quick message to say I am in Cairo, so we could meet up and get more concrete things going. When will most of you be available? I am leaving on Sat morning, so will keep the Friday for me but any other day works. Lemme know :) Rayna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- With My Respect, Samar Ali -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[OpenEgypt:2054] Re: Meetup next week?
Ahlan :-) So, let's stick to Wednesday 6pm at ADEF. Samar, may you please give everyone the address? Thanks and see ya :-) Le lundi 27 janvier 2014, Asmaa Ghieth asmaa1ghi...@gmail.com a écrit : Welcome to Cairo Rayna ,, I am available Wednesday if this is ok for you :) Looking forward to meet you Kind regards Asmaa Ghieth On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Hey everyone, A quick message to say I am in Cairo, so we could meet up and get more concrete things going. When will most of you be available? I am leaving on Sat morning, so will keep the Friday for me but any other day works. Lemme know :) Rayna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- *Kind regards Asmaa Ghieth Business Intelligence consultant. MBA, International Scope* *Business Analyst professional Certified * *M.a Economic Geo. ESRI Certified Instructor* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://me.hatewasabi.info/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [OpenEgypt:2057] Re: Meetup next week?
Hi Asmaa, There are people who work and It is impossible for them to come during working hours. Thus, 6pm sounds convenient :) Thanks for understanding and looking forward to meeting you later today. Rayna Le 29 janv. 2014 00:37, Asmaa Ghieth asmaa1ghi...@gmail.com a écrit : why at 6 PM ,,, what if we make it at 3:00 or 4:00 PM ?? or 12:00 ?? Thank you :) On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Samar Ali newgeneratio...@gmail.comwrote: عنوان أضف، فيﻻ 143 ش 8 متفرع من ميدان النافورة، المقطم. On 28 January 2014 00:07, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Ahlan :-) So, let's stick to Wednesday 6pm at ADEF. Samar, may you please give everyone the address? Thanks and see ya :-) Le lundi 27 janvier 2014, Asmaa Ghieth asmaa1ghi...@gmail.com a écrit : Welcome to Cairo Rayna ,, I am available Wednesday if this is ok for you :) Looking forward to meet you Kind regards Asmaa Ghieth On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Rayna rayna...@gmail.com wrote: Hey everyone, A quick message to say I am in Cairo, so we could meet up and get more concrete things going. When will most of you be available? I am leaving on Sat morning, so will keep the Friday for me but any other day works. Lemme know :) Rayna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- *Kind regards Asmaa Ghieth Business Intelligence consultant. MBA, International Scope* *Business Analyst professional Certified * *M.a Economic Geo. ESRI Certified Instructor* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs. http://me.hatewasabi.info/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- With My Respect, Samar Ali -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- *Kind regards Asmaa Ghieth Business Intelligence consultant. MBA, International Scope* *Business Analyst professional Certified * *M.a Economic Geo. ESRI Certified Instructor* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OpenEgypt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openegypt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
