Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
If I'm resorting to native code I care a lot less about it being cross-platform (not 100% less, but less). Give me a GLContext on Linux and Mac and whatever DirectX has on Windows. I just want a way to get content generated on the native side to the screen without losing performance. Scott On Jul 21, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Joseph Andresen joseph.andre...@oracle.com wrote: That's a good point Robert, If the GLContext work that steve and felipe did become an actual thing, this would help that cause become cross platform. Angle also is strictly es2, and I haven't looked at prism es2 in a while but I think we use GL2 calls for desktop in some cases. We would have to address those cases (if even possible) before any work started. -Joe On 7/21/2014 10:40 AM, Robert Krüger wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Joseph Andresen joseph.andre...@oracle.com wrote: I also forgot, The argument could be made that if we did indeed use angle, we could ditch our directx 9 pipeline altogether and just use one hardware pipeline. We would really have to evaluate this though, and I am not sure the work would be worth the benefit (if there even is any). Well, at least the presence of the directx pipeline was used as an argument against exposing a GL context via a low-level native api, which quite a number of people with particular graphics/performance requirements need IIRC, so this would be a potential benefit.
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
Another way to get some native visualization (though a different kind perhaps) would be to address some limitations in the media APIs. MediaPlayer needs a mechanism to allow developers to plug in their own codecs. If it played a stream of frames generated from whatever JNI code I wished, I could just feed it with whatever I rendered in my native code. Scott On Jul 22, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Kevin Rushforth kevin.rushfo...@oracle.com wrote: Here is the JIRA that is tracking this: RT-36215 https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-36215: Allow FX to interoperate with 3rd party (native) OpenGL visualizations There aren't any concrete plans to deliver it, though. When/if we do, Richard's earlier comments reflect current thinking as to how we would likely proceed. -- Kevin Richard Bair wrote: This sounds like there are concrete plans for this, which wood be great news. I’d say there were a lot of thoughts around it but it hasn’t been turned into an actionable plan. Heck, I don’t even know if we have a JIRA for it (Kevin would know…) Richard The approach where an integration API would only work on Windows with GL support would at least in our area not be uncommon. There are a number of digital media pro applications that require GL to be installed on Windows to work. Keep up the good work.
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
This sounds like there are concrete plans for this, which wood be great news. I’d say there were a lot of thoughts around it but it hasn’t been turned into an actionable plan. Heck, I don’t even know if we have a JIRA for it (Kevin would know…) Richard The approach where an integration API would only work on Windows with GL support would at least in our area not be uncommon. There are a number of digital media pro applications that require GL to be installed on Windows to work. Keep up the good work.
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
Here is the JIRA that is tracking this: RT-36215 https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-36215: Allow FX to interoperate with 3rd party (native) OpenGL visualizations There aren't any concrete plans to deliver it, though. When/if we do, Richard's earlier comments reflect current thinking as to how we would likely proceed. -- Kevin Richard Bair wrote: This sounds like there are concrete plans for this, which wood be great news. I’d say there were a lot of thoughts around it but it hasn’t been turned into an actionable plan. Heck, I don’t even know if we have a JIRA for it (Kevin would know…) Richard The approach where an integration API would only work on Windows with GL support would at least in our area not be uncommon. There are a number of digital media pro applications that require GL to be installed on Windows to work. Keep up the good work.
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
Hi Tobias, I took an extensive look into exactly what angle provides in terms of a feature set, and at the time, found that it wouldn't really get us anything. Technical challenges aside, being able to run the GL pipe on windows is not limited by prism, in fact in the past me and other engineers have used windows es2 to vet out platform specific bugs. I think we just don't ship with that support. I do think one interesting thing to set up would be to use it to validate our shaders (if all the legal stuff worked out and we were actually able to use it). -Joe On 7/21/2014 4:17 AM, Tobias Bley wrote: Hi, does anybody knows the AngleProject? (https://code.google.com/p/angleproject/) It’s used by Chrome and Firefox for WebGL to translate OpenGL ES2 code to DirectX on Windows…. Maybe it can be used to use the JavaFX OpenGL ES2 pipeline on Windows too? Best regards, Tobi
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
I also forgot, The argument could be made that if we did indeed use angle, we could ditch our directx 9 pipeline altogether and just use one hardware pipeline. We would really have to evaluate this though, and I am not sure the work would be worth the benefit (if there even is any). On 7/21/2014 10:04 AM, Joseph Andresen wrote: Hi Tobias, I took an extensive look into exactly what angle provides in terms of a feature set, and at the time, found that it wouldn't really get us anything. Technical challenges aside, being able to run the GL pipe on windows is not limited by prism, in fact in the past me and other engineers have used windows es2 to vet out platform specific bugs. I think we just don't ship with that support. I do think one interesting thing to set up would be to use it to validate our shaders (if all the legal stuff worked out and we were actually able to use it). -Joe On 7/21/2014 4:17 AM, Tobias Bley wrote: Hi, does anybody knows the AngleProject? (https://code.google.com/p/angleproject/) It’s used by Chrome and Firefox for WebGL to translate OpenGL ES2 code to DirectX on Windows…. Maybe it can be used to use the JavaFX OpenGL ES2 pipeline on Windows too? Best regards, Tobi
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
That's a good point Robert, If the GLContext work that steve and felipe did become an actual thing, this would help that cause become cross platform. Angle also is strictly es2, and I haven't looked at prism es2 in a while but I think we use GL2 calls for desktop in some cases. We would have to address those cases (if even possible) before any work started. -Joe On 7/21/2014 10:40 AM, Robert Krüger wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Joseph Andresen joseph.andre...@oracle.com wrote: I also forgot, The argument could be made that if we did indeed use angle, we could ditch our directx 9 pipeline altogether and just use one hardware pipeline. We would really have to evaluate this though, and I am not sure the work would be worth the benefit (if there even is any). Well, at least the presence of the directx pipeline was used as an argument against exposing a GL context via a low-level native api, which quite a number of people with particular graphics/performance requirements need IIRC, so this would be a potential benefit.
Re: ANGLE - Translating OpenGL ES 2 code to DirectX?
I was interested in Angle for exactly this same reason — it would allow us to expose OpenGL at the public API level. However there are licensing issues we’d have to look at, performance tests to be run, security audits performed, and whether or not it is actually able to perform well. Although the browsers use it for WebGL, WebGL is not the main thing browsers do. What I mean by that, is that if WebGL isn’t working, an HTML author can detect that and redirect or provide some kind of error to the user. If GL doesn’t work for us, we’d be dead in the water (probably just crash) without having some kind of fallback. We could maybe just fallback to software rendering (and realize that in such cases the performance will not be good and people will be mad). It didn’t look like a slam dunk to me. Rather, it seemed to me that we should allow the OpenGL stack to run on Windows with an option, let developers opt into it, but note that it isn’t a supported configuration so we don’t have support costs associated with it if it doesn’t work. And we’d have to forbid it on WebStart / Applets (within reason) so as not to allow bugs in the native drivers to be exploitable through us (if the board causes the VM to crash, there is potentially some security issues there). And then expose an API that works with GL, supported on Mac / Linux, but “known to work” on Windows in cases where Windows GL support works. That seemed to me a shorter path to victory. Richard On Jul 21, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Joseph Andresen joseph.andre...@oracle.com wrote: That's a good point Robert, If the GLContext work that steve and felipe did become an actual thing, this would help that cause become cross platform. Angle also is strictly es2, and I haven't looked at prism es2 in a while but I think we use GL2 calls for desktop in some cases. We would have to address those cases (if even possible) before any work started. -Joe On 7/21/2014 10:40 AM, Robert Krüger wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Joseph Andresen joseph.andre...@oracle.com wrote: I also forgot, The argument could be made that if we did indeed use angle, we could ditch our directx 9 pipeline altogether and just use one hardware pipeline. We would really have to evaluate this though, and I am not sure the work would be worth the benefit (if there even is any). Well, at least the presence of the directx pipeline was used as an argument against exposing a GL context via a low-level native api, which quite a number of people with particular graphics/performance requirements need IIRC, so this would be a potential benefit.
