Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
Stefano Maffulli wrote: The wiki served for many years the purpose of 'poor man CMS' when we didn't have an easy way to collaboratively create content. So the wiki ended up hosting pages like 'Getting started with OpenStack', demo videos, How to contribute, mission, to document our culture / shared understandings (4 opens, release cycle, use of blueprints, stable branch policy...), to maintain the list of Programs, meetings/teams, blueprints and specs, lots of random documentation and more. Lots of the content originally placed on the wiki was there because there was no better place. Now that we have more mature content and processes, these are finding their way out of the wiki like: * http://governance.openstack.org * http://specs.openstack.org * http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ Also, the Introduction to OpenStack is maintained on www.openstack.org/software/ together with introductory videos and other basic material. A redesign of openstack.org/community and the new portal groups.openstack.org are making even more wiki pages obsolete. This makes the wiki very confusing to newcomers and more likely to host conflicting information. One of the issues here is that the wiki also serves as a default starting page for all things not on www.openstack.org (its main page is a list of relevant links). So at the same time we are moving authoritative content out of the wiki to more appropriate, version-controlled and peer-reviewed sites, we are still relying on the wiki as a reference catalog or starting point to find those more appropriate sites. That is IMHO what creates the confusion on where the authoritative content actually lives. So we also need to revisit how to make navigation between the various web properties of OpenStack more seamless and discoverable, so that we don't rely on the wiki starting page for that important role. I would propose to restrict the scope of the wiki to things that anything that don't need or want to be peer-reviewed. Things like: * agendas for meetings, sprints, etc * list of etherpads for summits * quick prototypes of new programs (mentors, upstream training) before they find a stable home (which can still be the wiki) +1 -- I agree on the end goal... Use the wiki a bit like we use etherpads or pastebins, and have more appropriate locations for all of our reference information. It will take some time but we should move toward that. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
On Fri, 2015-01-09 at 10:35 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: One of the issues here is that the wiki also serves as a default starting page for all things not on www.openstack.org (its main page is a list of relevant links). So at the same time we are moving authoritative content out of the wiki to more appropriate, version-controlled and peer-reviewed sites, we are still relying on the wiki as a reference catalog or starting point to find those more appropriate sites. That is IMHO what creates the confusion on where the authoritative content actually lives. There is an intention to redesign the Community page http://www.openstack.org/community/: maybe this can be used as a starting point for discovery of governance, specs, infra manual, contributor docs, etc? The wiki may need a new category for 'stackforge' projects but probably it makes sense to wait until the new programs.yaml and some tags are set. Eventually we may match those tags in wiki [[Category:]]... something for the future. Between redesigning www/Community and docs/developers(contributors) I'm quite confident that most personas currently served by the wiki will have their interests served better elsewhere. To answer Carol's comment: no content will be pushed out of the wiki without a proper migration and redirection. We're discussing the scope of the wiki so that we can communicate more clearly what content should be expected to be in the wiki and what we should plan on putting elsewhere (since so much redesigning is going on). So we also need to revisit how to make navigation between the various web properties of OpenStack more seamless and discoverable, so that we don't rely on the wiki starting page for that important role. Indeed. The new www.openstack.org has a better navigation bar, IMHO and the wiki pages (and mailing list archives and other sites) have been left behind. It shouldn't be too hard to sync the navigations for the sites and offer a common to-level path at least. /stef ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
I understand that you're moving content out of the wiki, which I think will be fine, as long as the wiki provides links to the new content location. Is that the intention? Carol -Original Message- From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thie...@openstack.org] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 1:36 AM To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all] Stefano Maffulli wrote: The wiki served for many years the purpose of 'poor man CMS' when we didn't have an easy way to collaboratively create content. So the wiki ended up hosting pages like 'Getting started with OpenStack', demo videos, How to contribute, mission, to document our culture / shared understandings (4 opens, release cycle, use of blueprints, stable branch policy...), to maintain the list of Programs, meetings/teams, blueprints and specs, lots of random documentation and more. Lots of the content originally placed on the wiki was there because there was no better place. Now that we have more mature content and processes, these are finding their way out of the wiki like: * http://governance.openstack.org * http://specs.openstack.org * http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ Also, the Introduction to OpenStack is maintained on www.openstack.org/software/ together with introductory videos and other basic material. A redesign of openstack.org/community and the new portal groups.openstack.org are making even more wiki pages obsolete. This makes the wiki very confusing to newcomers and more likely to host conflicting information. One of the issues here is that the wiki also serves as a default starting page for all things not on www.openstack.org (its main page is a list of relevant links). So at the same time we are moving authoritative content out of the wiki to more appropriate, version-controlled and peer-reviewed sites, we are still relying on the wiki as a reference catalog or starting point to find those more appropriate sites. That is IMHO what creates the confusion on where the authoritative content actually lives. So we also need to revisit how to make navigation between the various web properties of OpenStack more seamless and discoverable, so that we don't rely on the wiki starting page for that important role. I would propose to restrict the scope of the wiki to things that anything that don't need or want to be peer-reviewed. Things like: * agendas for meetings, sprints, etc * list of etherpads for summits * quick prototypes of new programs (mentors, upstream training) before they find a stable home (which can still be the wiki) +1 -- I agree on the end goal... Use the wiki a bit like we use etherpads or pastebins, and have more appropriate locations for all of our reference information. It will take some time but we should move toward that. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
On Thu, 2015-01-08 at 12:52 -0800, Sean Roberts wrote: Thanks for bringing this up Stef. I have found while introducing OpenStack fundamentals in the user groups, what seems logical to us, the fully OpenStack immersed, is confusing to newcomers. Yeah, I'm diving more in the wiki in preparation for a redesign for docs.openstack.org/developer (which I think should be called contributor/ in order to avoid collision with developer.openstack.org). The How_to_contribute page on the wiki is way past its time and needs to be gutted, too. A specific example comes from the How To Contribute wikipage. Explaining the corporate CLA and CCLA link was moved to the infra manual. It is cleaner presentation of the information for sure. It also left the google searchable wiki links hanging. This is the primary way most newcomers will look for information. It wasn't easy to find the information once it was brought to my attention it was missing. I fixed it up pretty easily after that. Indeed, this is something I've experienced myself. Moving content around, changing processes, etc are things we should all be doing with care allowing time and constant communication across multiple channels (and taking care of proper http redirects, when possible, to instruct web spiders, too). In order to better map the anchors we had on the wiki, I've suggested to add a subsection to the developer guide in infra-manual: https://review.openstack.org/145971 so that we can have something more precise for CLA then the general link to http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html#account-setup I've also moved most of the content from CLA-FAQ into a set of FAQ on Ask OpenStack, since that site gets lots more hits from search engines: https://ask.openstack.org/en/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/tags:cla,faq/page:1/ /stef ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
hello folks, TL;DR Many wiki pages and categories are maintained elsewhere and to avoid confusion to newcomers we need to agree on a new scope for the wiki. A suggestion below is to limit its scope to content that doesn't need/want peer-review and is not hosted elsewhere (no duplication). The wiki served for many years the purpose of 'poor man CMS' when we didn't have an easy way to collaboratively create content. So the wiki ended up hosting pages like 'Getting started with OpenStack', demo videos, How to contribute, mission, to document our culture / shared understandings (4 opens, release cycle, use of blueprints, stable branch policy...), to maintain the list of Programs, meetings/teams, blueprints and specs, lots of random documentation and more. Lots of the content originally placed on the wiki was there because there was no better place. Now that we have more mature content and processes, these are finding their way out of the wiki like: * http://governance.openstack.org * http://specs.openstack.org * http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ Also, the Introduction to OpenStack is maintained on www.openstack.org/software/ together with introductory videos and other basic material. A redesign of openstack.org/community and the new portal groups.openstack.org are making even more wiki pages obsolete. This makes the wiki very confusing to newcomers and more likely to host conflicting information. I would propose to restrict the scope of the wiki to things that anything that don't need or want to be peer-reviewed. Things like: * agendas for meetings, sprints, etc * list of etherpads for summits * quick prototypes of new programs (mentors, upstream training) before they find a stable home (which can still be the wiki) Also, documentation for contributors and users should not be on the wiki, but on docs.openstack.org (where it can be found more easily). If nobody objects, I'll start by proposing a new home page design and start tagging content that may be moved elsewhere. /stef ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] The scope of OpenStack wiki [all]
Thanks for bringing this up Stef. I have found while introducing OpenStack fundamentals in the user groups, what seems logical to us, the fully OpenStack immersed, is confusing to newcomers. A specific example comes from the How To Contribute wikipage. Explaining the corporate CLA and CCLA link was moved to the infra manual. It is cleaner presentation of the information for sure. It also left the google searchable wiki links hanging. This is the primary way most newcomers will look for information. It wasn't easy to find the information once it was brought to my attention it was missing. I fixed it up pretty easily after that. The point being, we need present a certain level of organizational maturity to the public. The wiki is important for us to innovate and make changes on the fly. Some bits of information are super critical and need to be handled with the utmost care. I was able to help the person that was stuck looking for the CCLA. Without that direct contact, we would have lost a new contributor for at least the short term. ~sean On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:31 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: hello folks, TL;DR Many wiki pages and categories are maintained elsewhere and to avoid confusion to newcomers we need to agree on a new scope for the wiki. A suggestion below is to limit its scope to content that doesn't need/want peer-review and is not hosted elsewhere (no duplication). The wiki served for many years the purpose of 'poor man CMS' when we didn't have an easy way to collaboratively create content. So the wiki ended up hosting pages like 'Getting started with OpenStack', demo videos, How to contribute, mission, to document our culture / shared understandings (4 opens, release cycle, use of blueprints, stable branch policy...), to maintain the list of Programs, meetings/teams, blueprints and specs, lots of random documentation and more. Lots of the content originally placed on the wiki was there because there was no better place. Now that we have more mature content and processes, these are finding their way out of the wiki like: * http://governance.openstack.org * http://specs.openstack.org * http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ Also, the Introduction to OpenStack is maintained on www.openstack.org/software/ together with introductory videos and other basic material. A redesign of openstack.org/community and the new portal groups.openstack.org are making even more wiki pages obsolete. This makes the wiki very confusing to newcomers and more likely to host conflicting information. I would propose to restrict the scope of the wiki to things that anything that don't need or want to be peer-reviewed. Things like: * agendas for meetings, sprints, etc * list of etherpads for summits * quick prototypes of new programs (mentors, upstream training) before they find a stable home (which can still be the wiki) Also, documentation for contributors and users should not be on the wiki, but on docs.openstack.org (where it can be found more easily). If nobody objects, I'll start by proposing a new home page design and start tagging content that may be moved elsewhere. /stef ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
