Re: RE: Rant
Banish him to the hinter lands, (where ever they are) and let us purify the list! And Gary, I have root privileges! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:49 PM hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n DBA's get to trash everybody else. go away! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the process before it completes. Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from you DBAs. :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
That happens even to us SAs who are also DBAs (or vice versa). About five years ago, I was explaining DCL and VMS to a new co-worker and describing how I help protect against accidental file deletion by having DEL*ETE :== DELETE/LOG/CONFIRM in my SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM. So, I confidently issued a DEL *.*.* -- in SYS$LIBRARY -- after running AUTOGEN. Seasoned VMS SAs know that AUTOGEN quietly deletes all global symbols, including those protecting accidental file deletes. After a Putz! comment from our Operations group, the files were given an emergency restore. The thing is that I knew better. Doing DBA work in Oracle, however, has made me even more paranoid. Hasn't happened since and I don't rely on site addons to protect me from myself. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. -- G.I.Joe, a real American Hero :) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: Rant you betcha. okay, I'll tell a story on myself. I really am usually very careful about doing something that is a sweeping change without checking either the directory I'm in or doing it so that I have to confirm. VAX/VMS, in my home directory. I could have SWORN I was in a temp directory, my login was supposed to be set up to tell me the directory I was in. It wasn't, 'cause I did the VMS equivalent of rm * and deleted EVERYTHING in my home directory (scripts, notes, login profile) I very meekly called the data center and asked them to please please restore my directory from the prior night's backup tape. After they stopped laughing, they made it a rush. See, I used to buy them pizza if I had to ask them to work late and do extra stuff. I know my limitations. I'm a pretty good general DBA but I ain't an SA Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
AMEN!!! Those yellow stickies all over the CD case just don't cut it and there is not enough screen space on any terminal I've seen that replaces multiple books open at the same time or books with paper weights holding them open to two separate sections for quick flipping. On the other hand, the CDs are easier to come by and I've learned to live with them. Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:03 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
oh goodie, now I can stop feeling badly over it :) I've learned that whenever I log into a database as a superuser (connect internal or / as sysdba) the FIRST command I issue is select * from v$database so that I confirm that I am in the database I think I'm in. just a habit, but one that stopped me cold from shutting down the forward-facing database, which would have effectively shutdown the website. --- Jesse, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That happens even to us SAs who are also DBAs (or vice versa). About five years ago, I was explaining DCL and VMS to a new co-worker and describing how I help protect against accidental file deletion by having DEL*ETE :== DELETE/LOG/CONFIRM in my SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM. So, I confidently issued a DEL *.*.* -- in SYS$LIBRARY -- after running AUTOGEN. Seasoned VMS SAs know that AUTOGEN quietly deletes all global symbols, including those protecting accidental file deletes. After a Putz! comment from our Operations group, the files were given an emergency restore. The thing is that I knew better. Doing DBA work in Oracle, however, has made me even more paranoid. Hasn't happened since and I don't rely on site addons to protect me from myself. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. -- G.I.Joe, a real American Hero :) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: Rant you betcha. okay, I'll tell a story on myself. I really am usually very careful about doing something that is a sweeping change without checking either the directory I'm in or doing it so that I have to confirm. VAX/VMS, in my home directory. I could have SWORN I was in a temp directory, my login was supposed to be set up to tell me the directory I was in. It wasn't, 'cause I did the VMS equivalent of rm * and deleted EVERYTHING in my home directory (scripts, notes, login profile) I very meekly called the data center and asked them to please please restore my directory from the prior night's backup tape. After they stopped laughing, they made it a rush. See, I used to buy them pizza if I had to ask them to work late and do extra stuff. I know my limitations. I'm a pretty good general DBA but I ain't an SA Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. I like the improved master index and the search facility I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the docs on the train --- kkennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AMEN!!! Those yellow stickies all over the CD case just don't cut it and there is not enough screen space on any terminal I've seen that replaces multiple books open at the same time or books with paper weights holding them open to two separate sections for quick flipping. On the other hand, the CDs are easier to come by and I've learned to live with them. Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:03 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL
RE: RE: Rant
Depends what version of Adobe you have. I believe I had version five at my last job and you could add notes and bookmarks.. Just most of us are using Adobe reader, Free but not containing the editing abilities! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Rant I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. I like the improved master index and the search facility I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the docs on the train -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I like the idea of the new search, but I don't like the requirement of Internet access to be able to use it. The useless 2nd doc CD should include an exported TS and the init.ora and scripts to recreate the OracleText DB that Oracle probably uses to do the search. I suppose that it would have to include the 9iAS setup, too, although I'm not as keen on that one. Then again, that's assuming it would even fit on a CD or two... :) You *can* write your own notes, but it takes a lot of work (editing of HTML and/or PDFs) and the search results won't point to your edited docs. Unless you dump the contents of the CD to a webserver like OSU for VMS (I haven't had time to setup Apache yet, but CGIs in DCL *rock*!), and do your own custom highlights, editing, and searches... Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Rant I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. I like the improved master index and the search facility I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the docs on the train -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: Rant
Don't forget the neat stuff you find by accident while thumbing through the books trying to find something else. Henry - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:03 AM CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: Rant...DOCUMENTATION
List, If you have problems with the CD's then the Doc's are available for download at http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/nav/docindex.htm Just like Alice's Restaurant. Ron ROR mô¿ôm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re:RE: Rant Would NOT surprise me. Actually the manuals are becoming a rare and endangered item. They've morphed into CD's. Those that remain are platinum plated to command $!%)) US a set!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
Yep... I figgur' we are hitting about 8 G's about now... Just wait for 10i and watch us top 10 G's!!! RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP Oracle Database Architect CSX Midtier Database Administration Author Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning curve --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of months ago. Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, now you need a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio VR headset recommended. :o) Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM you can see how often I use the GUI :) OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing it all again. T --- April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Good rant. :) I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is I click on this item on the GUI... (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind that little radio button) --- mkb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: RE: Rant
What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: Rant um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning curve --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of months ago. Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, now you need a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio VR headset recommended. :o) Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM you can see how often I use the GUI :) OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing it all again. T --- April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Good rant. :) I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is I click on this item on the GUI... (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind that little radio button) --- mkb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
RE: RE: Rant
Title: RE: RE: Rant Not me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Rant I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services | Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n DBA's get to trash everybody else. go away! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the process before it completes. Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from you DBAs. :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n DBA's get to trash everybody else. go away! I come in peace -- honest!!! I'm an aspiring DBA, and I want to do it the right way... How's that? :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Do you believe them? Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone: (203) 459-6855 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
what about self destruction?? Sunil -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Sounds like a movie I watched this weekend... Species. It's all science fiction to me. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. Quoting Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Do you believe them? Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone: (203) 459-6855 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I was about to say I won't be working anymore for Oracle version 27i. and then I realized that at the rate Oracle is releasing new versions, that would be next year so I'll probably still be doing this stuff --- Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: Rant um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning curve --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of months ago. Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, now you need a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio VR headset recommended. :o) Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM you can see how often I use the GUI :) OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing it all again. T --- April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Good rant. :) I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is I click on this item on the GUI... (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind that little radio button) --- mkb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author:
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: RE: RE: Rant Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. Quoting Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Do you believe them? Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone: (203) 459-6855 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: RE: Rant
Yes, of course. Because they are not Oracle. On Monday 22 July 2002 19:08, you wrote: Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: RE: Rant Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. Quoting Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Do you believe them? Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone: (203) 459-6855 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gogala; Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of I have a dream speach. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: Rant
CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
