RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Hi All, Rachel wrote want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? Answers are snipped, but no wonder DBA's have a bad reputation. In this case, the proper thing to do is give the best client service possible. Forget your database, push your keyboard away, focus, really concentrate, on your client (boss) and ask what can you help him/her with. When they jump up and down asking why is the db not up yet, state that his/her problem must be extremely important to bother you while a db is down and that you feel it is in the best interests of the corporation to devote all of your skills to fix it. Once you have cleaned up his/her problem you will then proceed to fix the db. Amazing how fast the boss's problem (along with the boss) disappears. :) Dave -- Dave Morgan DBA, Cybersurf Office: 403 777 2000 ext 284 -- Dave Morgan http://www.onlinerenter.com Calgary's Online Rental Marketplace [EMAIL PROTECTED] 403 399 2442 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Dave, I would REALLY like to introduce you to the CEO I was thinking of there are some people (ala the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert) who want what they want when they want it, and they want it now. Rachel From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 06:47:29 -0800 Hi All, Rachel wrote want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? Answers are snipped, but no wonder DBA's have a bad reputation. In this case, the proper thing to do is give the best client service possible. Forget your database, push your keyboard away, focus, really concentrate, on your client (boss) and ask what can you help him/her with. When they jump up and down asking why is the db not up yet, state that his/her problem must be extremely important to bother you while a db is down and that you feel it is in the best interests of the corporation to devote all of your skills to fix it. Once you have cleaned up his/her problem you will then proceed to fix the db. Amazing how fast the boss's problem (along with the boss) disappears. :) Dave -- Dave Morgan DBA, Cybersurf Office: 403 777 2000 ext 284 -- Dave Morgan http://www.onlinerenter.com Calgary's Online Rental Marketplace [EMAIL PROTECTED] 403 399 2442 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
OT RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Barbie doesn't talk when he takes her clothes off. || -Original Message- || From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 10:35 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || Eric, || || What's with you and Barbie? || || David A. Barbour || || Eric D. Pierce wrote: || || RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || - || || http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E || || Barbie as Glinda from The Wizard of Oz || || || Our Price: $19.99 || Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. || || Manufacturer's age: 3 years and up || Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. || Shipping weight: 0.7 pounds. || Note: Giftwrapping not available for this item. || Packaging: This item may be delivered in the || manufacturer's original || packaging, which could reveal the contents of the box. || ASIN: B4SU3E || || || || From Toysrus.com Amazon.com || Editorial Review || || Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of course--and || pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of the North from || the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is welcomed to || Munchkinland. She has long, curly strawberry-blonde hair || topped by a || tall lavender-pink crown, and she's wearing a sparkling pink satin || ball gown ornamented with silver stars and butterflies. || She also has || on a silver braided belt. Her outfit is completed with || pink heels and || a long, lavender magic wand that fits in her hand. Raise || her arm (or || press the button on her back), and you'll hear the wand's magical || brrinnng! sound or Glinda's voice saying, Tap your || heels together || three times. Sound effects are produced by three included button || cell batteries, which can be replaced. Say it again, || Glinda, just so || we'll never forget: There's no place like home. --Marcie Bovetz || Safety Information || Choking hazard: Small parts. Not for children under 3 years. || || - || || On 7 May 2001, at 10:21, Marianne Brooks wrote: || || Hmm, shaved head, why didn't I think of that? I would || imagine a woman with || a shaved head might be as effective...add a tatoo, some || leather pants and a || scowl and I've got a new me! :-) || || ... || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Eric D. Pierce ||INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like || subscribing). || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: David A. Barbour || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). || -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
OT RE: OT RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
I have been informed privately that some may find this remark offensive, perhaps even deeply so. For those people: Sorry!, that wasn't my intent. || -Original Message- || From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 12:23 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: OT RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || Barbie doesn't talk when he takes her || clothes off. || || || -Original Message- || || From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 10:35 PM || || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || || Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || || || || Eric, || || || || What's with you and Barbie? || || || || David A. Barbour || || || || Eric D. Pierce wrote: || || || || RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || || - || || || || http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E || || || || Barbie as Glinda from The Wizard of Oz || || || || || || Our Price: $19.99 || || Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. || || || || Manufacturer's age: 3 years and up || || Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. || || Shipping weight: 0.7 pounds. || || Note: Giftwrapping not available for this item. || || Packaging: This item may be delivered in the || || manufacturer's original || || packaging, which could reveal the contents of the box. || || ASIN: B4SU3E || || || || || || || || From Toysrus.com Amazon.com || || Editorial Review || || || || Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of || course--and || || pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of || the North from || || the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is || welcomed to || || Munchkinland. She has long, curly strawberry-blonde hair || || topped by a || || tall lavender-pink crown, and she's wearing a sparkling || pink satin || || ball gown ornamented with silver stars and butterflies. || || She also has || || on a silver braided belt. Her outfit is completed with || || pink heels and || || a long, lavender magic wand that fits in her hand. Raise || || her arm (or || || press the button on her back), and you'll hear the || wand's magical || || brrinnng! sound or Glinda's voice saying, Tap your || || heels together || || three times. Sound effects are produced by three || included button || || cell batteries, which can be replaced. Say it again, || || Glinda, just so || || we'll never forget: There's no place like home. || --Marcie Bovetz || || Safety Information || || Choking hazard: Small parts. Not for children under 3 years. || || || || - || || || || On 7 May 2001, at 10:21, Marianne Brooks wrote: || || || || Hmm, shaved head, why didn't I think of that? I would || || imagine a woman with || || a shaved head might be as effective...add a tatoo, some || || leather pants and a || || scowl and I've got a new me! :-) || || || || ... || || || || -- || || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || || -- || || Author: Eric D. Pierce || ||INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: || (858) 538-5051 || || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || || Mailing Lists || || || || || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an || E-Mail message || || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of || 'ListGuru') and in || || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed || from). You may || || also send the HELP command for other information (like || || subscribing). || || -- || || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || || -- || || Author: David A. Barbour || || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: || (858) 538-5051 || || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || || Mailing Lists || || || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of || 'ListGuru') and in || || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed || from). You may || || also send the HELP command for other information (like || subscribing). || || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Mohan, Ross || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || To REMOVE yourself from
RE: OT RE: OT RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Now I think that it was a very insencitive sexist remark? :-) Alex Hillman -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have been informed privately that some may find this remark offensive, perhaps even deeply so. For those people: Sorry!, that wasn't my intent. || -Original Message- || From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 12:23 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: OT RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || Barbie doesn't talk when he takes her || clothes off. || || || -Original Message- || || From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 10:35 PM || || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || || Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || || || || Eric, || || || || What's with you and Barbie? || || || || David A. Barbour || || || || Eric D. Pierce wrote: || || || || RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs || || || || - || || || || http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E || || || || Barbie as Glinda from The Wizard of Oz || || || || || || Our Price: $19.99 || || Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. || || || || Manufacturer's age: 3 years and up || || Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. || || Shipping weight: 0.7 pounds. || || Note: Giftwrapping not available for this item. || || Packaging: This item may be delivered in the || || manufacturer's original || || packaging, which could reveal the contents of the box. || || ASIN: B4SU3E || || || || || || || || From Toysrus.com Amazon.com || || Editorial Review || || || || Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of || course--and || || pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of || the North from || || the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is || welcomed to || || Munchkinland. She has long, curly strawberry-blonde hair || || topped by a || || tall lavender-pink crown, and she's wearing a sparkling || pink satin || || ball gown ornamented with silver stars and butterflies. || || She also has || || on a silver braided belt. Her outfit is completed with || || pink heels and || || a long, lavender magic wand that fits in her hand. Raise || || her arm (or || || press the button on her back), and you'll hear the || wand's magical || || brrinnng! sound or Glinda's voice saying, Tap your || || heels together || || three times. Sound effects are produced by three || included button || || cell batteries, which can be replaced. Say it again, || || Glinda, just so || || we'll never forget: There's no place like home. || --Marcie Bovetz || || Safety Information || || Choking hazard: Small parts. Not for children under 3 years. || || || || - || || || || On 7 May 2001, at 10:21, Marianne Brooks wrote: || || || || Hmm, shaved head, why didn't I think of that? I would || || imagine a woman with || || a shaved head might be as effective...add a tatoo, some || || leather pants and a || || scowl and I've got a new me! :-) || || || || ... || || || || -- || || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || || -- || || Author: Eric D. Pierce || ||INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: || (858) 538-5051 || || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || || Mailing Lists || || || || || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an || E-Mail message || || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of || 'ListGuru') and in || || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed || from). You may || || also send the HELP command for other information (like || || subscribing). || || -- || || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || || -- || || Author: David A. Barbour || || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: || (858) 538-5051 || || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || || Mailing Lists || || || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of || 'ListGuru') and in || || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed || from). You may || || also send the HELP command for other information (like || subscribing). || || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Mohan, Ross || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
totally random madness! http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B4T8RM.01.LZZZ.jpg http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B4T8RM --- Ken as Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz From Toysrus.com Amazon.com Editorial Review Ken is ready to follow Dorothy down the yellow brick road to re-create their adventures from the movie The Wizard of Oz. He has the painted eyebrows and nose of the Scarecrow, with the same wrinkled face and chin to show that his head is really supposed to be stuffed with straw. But this scarecrow does have brains, and he's holding his tiny rolled-up diploma in one hand to prove it. [COULD IT BE OCP???] Ken wears a scarecrow costume--a green velour shirt and brown velour pants with appropriate patches and touches of straw created from frayed yellow ribbon. He's jointed at the neck, elbows, waist, and knees so he can sit down to rest with Dorothy and all his other pals from the movie, which are also available in this line of dolls. --Marcie Bovetz --- On 7 May 2001, at 18:35, David A. Barbour wrote: Date sent: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:35:24 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] What's with you and Barbie? ... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E ... Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of course--and pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of the North from the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is welcomed to Munchkinland. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident as that on board. I disagreed and said that what the contractor was offering was exactly what we wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well. This story fits in with the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about things first, which is all about using your experience well. John Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643 -Original Message- From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Fwd: please help Jared, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend to forget basics when confronted with the pressures from management, users, and the constraints of time (primary key). I made this mistake once early on. Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the first thing I do is take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK about what I'm going to do before I ever touch the keyboard. Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo logs whenever I do a backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them inadvertently, but hopefully you will have practiced recovery scenarios (see Training a DBA by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with your tapes, disks, commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if you've got them, and everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can always give 'them' back something. David A. Barbour Jared Still wrote: Dick, Backing up the redo logs can have some serious consequences. Let's say you are restoring the database files, and a number of archived logs to roll forward through. Following that, you are going to roll forward through all archived logs that are still online, and then through your current redo logs for a complete recovery. Restoring old redo logs would render this strategy ineffective. Backing them up can be a good thing, but it would be very easy to inadvertently wipe out the current ones when restoring from tape. Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. It would also be prudent to make copies of the redo logs locally so you don't have to restore them from tape. Jared On Wednesday 02 May 2001 07:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan, It would appear that your friend has hit upon one of the problems of hot
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Title: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs These are good points, but beware of the boss that thinks looking over your shoulder and asking questions helps. Either your supervisor trusts you or he/she doesn't. For me, having someone right behind me breaks my concentration and can make the recovery take longer. Ugh. Happy Monday, all. Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Certified Self-Important Database Deity Slayer of Unix Administrators Wanton Kickboxing Goddess [EMAIL PROTECTED] NeoMedia 2201 Second St., Suite 600 Fort Myers, FL 33901, USA Phone: 941-337-3434 Fax: 941-337-3668 www.neom.com http://www.neom.com www.paperclick.com http://www.paperclick.com www.qode.com http://www.qode.com P a p e r C l i c k . c o m http://www.paperclick.com/home.htm Enter Your PaperClick Code Here! -Original Message- From: William Beilstein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident as that on board. I disagreed and said that what the contractor was offering was exactly what we wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well. This story fits in with the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about things first, which is all about using your experience well. John Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643 -Original Message- From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Fwd: please help Jared, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend to forget basics when confronted with the pressures from management, users, and the constraints of time (primary key). I made this mistake once early on. Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the first thing I do is take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK about what I'm going to do before I ever touch the keyboard. Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo logs whenever I do a backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them inadvertently, but hopefully you will have practiced recovery scenarios (see Training a DBA by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with your tapes, disks, commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if you've got them, and everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can always give 'them' back something. David A. Barbour Jared Still wrote: Dick, Backing up the redo logs can have some serious consequences. Let's say you are restoring the database files, and a number of archived logs to roll forward through. Following that, you are going to roll forward through all archived logs that are still online, and then through your current redo logs for a complete recovery. Restoring old redo logs would render this strategy ineffective. Backing them up can be a good thing, but it would be very easy to inadvertently wipe out the current ones when restoring from tape. Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Ah, yes...reminds me of the time I attended a meeting with our new COO. She had a zillion ideas and a bunch of requests for information. When the meeting ended, she asked me what I was going to do first. I startled her with, I'm going to lunch, wanna join me?. She did and we mapped out our plan of attack leisurely over hamburgers. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 09:30AM I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident as that on board. I disagreed and said that what the contractor was offering was exactly what we wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well. This story fits in with the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about things first, which is all about using your experience well. John Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643 -Original Message- From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Fwd: please help Jared, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend to forget basics when confronted with the pressures from management, users, and the constraints of time (primary key). I made this mistake once early on. Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the first thing I do is take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK about what I'm going to do before I ever touch the keyboard. Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo logs whenever I do a backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them inadvertently, but hopefully you will have practiced recovery scenarios (see Training a DBA by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with your tapes, disks, commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if you've got them, and everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can always give 'them' back something. David A. Barbour Jared Still wrote: Dick, Backing up the redo logs can have some serious consequences. Let's say you are restoring the database files, and a number of archived logs to roll forward through. Following that, you are going to roll forward through all archived logs that are still online, and then through your current redo logs for a complete recovery. Restoring old redo logs would render this strategy ineffective. Backing them up can be a good thing, but it would be very easy to inadvertently wipe out the current ones when restoring from tape. Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. It would also be prudent to make
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? From: William Beilstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 05:30:57 -0800 I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident as that on board. I disagreed and said that what the contractor was offering was exactly what we wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well. This story fits in with the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about things first, which is all about using your experience well. John Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643 -Original Message- From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Fwd: please help Jared, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend to forget basics when confronted with the pressures from management, users, and the constraints of time (primary key). I made this mistake once early on. Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the first thing I do is take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK about what I'm going to do before I ever touch the keyboard. Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo logs whenever I do a backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them inadvertently, but hopefully you will have practiced recovery scenarios (see Training a DBA by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with your tapes, disks, commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if you've got them, and everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can always give 'them' back something. David A. Barbour Jared Still wrote: Dick, Backing up the redo logs can have some serious consequences. Let's say you are restoring the database files, and a number of archived logs to roll forward through. Following that, you are going to roll forward through all archived logs that are still online, and then through your current redo logs for a complete recovery. Restoring old redo logs would render this strategy ineffective. Backing them up can be a good thing, but it would be very easy to inadvertently wipe out the current ones when restoring from tape. Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. It would also be prudent to make copies of the redo logs locally
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
You have to be like an ankylosaurus, with armour plating everywhere, and spikes on your tail. The armour plating to deal automatically with frets while you continue concentrating on your work, and spikes to keep people away to give you room to get the job done. If you can't bring the database back up you KNOW you will be out of a job. If you can bring it back, they can fire you but at least you will know that the database came back up. Be prepared to explain everything you do. If you can demonstrate that you took the time that it would have taken, then the monkey is off your back and if people are not happy they will look for other causes (OPS? Other vendor? More staff? More hardware? Better, more thorough testing procedures before implementing change?). Your only option is to be methodical, and bring the system back up. It will take the time that it takes - think things through, do it right the first time. One step at a time, until it's complete. Focus. There's no time to panic anyway, do that after the crisis is over. Fear and anger just waste time. Life is too short for that nonsense on regular days, it's even more obvious while there is a crisis. Chickens flying around in a wild frenzy never manage to achieve anything constructive. Listen to their concerns, if there is a good comment use it, otherwise just let them lose feathers. If some people need help leaving you alone, arrange for that to happen - tell your boss that interference is slowing down recovery time, please keep this person away from me. Maybe appoint someone to filter messages and have one contact person. It also helps others to see that the person responsible for bringing the system back up is methodical and calm. You can tell people in many cases: We haven't lost any data, it's all there. I am recovering the database now as fast as I can, but it WILL take some time. Can't say how long right now, but I am going as fast as possible, believe me I want this system back up as much as you do. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: (902) 426-4774 -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? From: William Beilstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 05:30:57 -0800 I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Rachel Carmichael wrote: want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? establish a perimeter and use automatic weapons?;-) -- Bill Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
I had this situation last year, when I recognised the voice of my boss at 4am I knew something was going wrong (24x7 database). The CEO held a quick meeting , ask us our advices , then let us work without asking us each 5 minutes how things were. I appreciated that a lot . --- Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? From: William Beilstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 05:30:57 -0800 I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act before they think things through. When I have a problem with the database, I get a cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and what to do to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware crashed, bad data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care of the problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the repair. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM The golden rule when there is a big crash is : 1. Panic 2. Stop panic 3. Fix the problem --- Hallas, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : FOR YOUR INFORMATION ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet email addresses of the staff has changed to the following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001. David, I support what you say about taking your time entirely. In fact at any interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are always asked. My standard answer is the at then first thing I will do is go for a cup of coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I explain how thinking time is required etc. On a similar theme a few years ago I was interviewing for a contract DBA and he made the statement along the lines of 'you are paying me more because I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from them so you will be safe with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently than that). After the interview the senior manager at the interview said that he would not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident as that on board. I disagreed and said that what the contractor was offering was exactly what we wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well. This story fits in with the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about things first, which is all about using your experience well. John Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643 -Original Message- From: David A. Barbour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Fwd: please help Jared, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Best practice of course is to make a backup of your database in it's current condition prior to restoring it. Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend to forget basics when confronted with the pressures from management, users, and the constraints of time (primary key). I made this mistake once early on. Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the first thing I do is take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK about what I'm going to do before I ever touch the keyboard. Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo logs whenever I do a backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them inadvertently, but hopefully you will have practiced recovery scenarios (see Training a DBA by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with your tapes, disks, commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if you've got them, and everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can always give 'them' back something. David A. Barbour Jared Still wrote: Dick, Backing up the redo logs can have some serious consequences. Let's say you are restoring the database files, and a number of archived logs to roll forward through. Following that, you are going to roll forward through all archived logs that are still online, and then through your current redo logs for a complete recovery. Restoring old redo logs would render this strategy ineffective
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Title: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs I usually hire a large, mean and extremely rude person to stand at the entrance to my cube and say Mr. Adams is busy right now. Come back later. R. Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meddle not in the affairs of troff, for it is subtle and quick to anger. -Original Message- From: Thater, William [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Rachel Carmichael wrote: want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your neck on the 24x7 database that's down? establish a perimeter and use automatic weapons?;-) -- Bill Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Title: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Yes, Rodd, you are right. There are times when being blunt is warranted. I do it now - I couldn't a few months ago. At my last employer I was very very good at it and my boss let us do our jobs without interference. However, the real question is, what's PHB? :P -Original Message- From: Rodd Holman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs Lisa, This is where I use my firm understanding of what I can do and all the other employers in the world that would like me to do for them. It gives me the confidence to tell the PHB leaning over my shoulder to get lost if he wants the system up in his lifetime. If PHB can't handle the fact that I have gained my own personal confidence then that his problem. I don't lose sleep over it. Generally when you bluntly point out that they are COSTING THE COMPANY MONEY by increasing the down time with their PHB actions they generally go scurrying away like a mouse when the light comes on. Then again, in such situations I tend to be VERY blunt and un-PC with those who don't understand the FULL situation. It doesn't necessarily endear me to being selected as the next department manager. However, after 12yrs as a Naval Officer and various other management and supervisory positions, I'm not really interested in leaving the senior technical staff for that any more. I've had my gut full of it. :-) Rodd Holman Oracle DBA (605) 988-1373 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Comments made are my own opinions and views. They do not represent views, policies, or procedures of LodgeNet Entertainment Corporation Original Message dated 5/7/01, 9:45:47 AM Author: Koivu, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs: These are good points, but beware of the boss that thinks looking over your shoulder and asking questions helps. Either your supervisor trusts you or he/she doesn't. For me, having someone right behind me breaks my concentration and can make the recovery take longer. Ugh. Happy Monday, all. Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Certified Self-Important Database Deity Slayer of Unix Administrators Wanton Kickboxing Goddess [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
At my previous employer (ATT) I was in charge if a large electronic switching system. When there were problems the manager would be breathing down my neck to make the diagnosis and repairs as quickly as possible. I made a sign and pointed to it when he would bother me during the crisis. It worked great. The sign said If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem!! ROR mª¿ªm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
---excerpt--- ? definition #1) Dilbert's boss, a clueless manager who likes to have pointless meetings, harass workers. He really doesn't have a clue. definition #2) A specific form of a very common creature, he is one of those people that are too stupid to get any real work done and are therefore transferred into management. Commonly seen carry his etch-a-scetch into endless meetings, he is the product of Scott Adams' Dilbert comic [further elucidation]: How a PHB eats a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup First, the PHB (or Pointy-Haired Boss) asks Alice to expense the Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and she of course files it under [idiot expenses, like everything else the PHB asks for. After the Peanut Butter Cups arrive in a mangled cardboard box, shipped UPS (pronounced oops) of course, the PHB retires to his office to ostensibly consume his sugar-filled morsels. He finally manages to remove the two peanut-buttery cups from the packaging, and places them on the table. He examines them, but is unable to decide what to do next with them. The PHB then reaches for his phone and calls up Dogbert for his expert advice. Dogbert assures the PHB that he is desperately in need of a Peanut-Butter Cup Consumption Device. The PHB expenses this as well, and upon receiving the PB-CC, which looks exactly like a spork, he finally consumes the peanut butter cups, and, unwittingly, their papers. ..and remember.. there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's ---end--- - http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Pointy%20Haired%20Bosslastnode_id=21643 - http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=PHB - http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=safe=offq=phb+bofh - ---excerpt--- http://www.suslik.org/Writings/bofh.html ... PHBs An associated character is the PHB (Pointy-Haired Boss) as espoused in the Dilbert cartoons of Scott Adams. Adam's PHB is clueless to the point of clinical brain death, yet retains his elevated position in the company. BOFHen draw the appropriate lesson, and see analogies in much of their companies' managers. Adams remarked [8] that virtually all of the events depicted in Dilbert have been claimed to have occurred in Real Life. The BOFHen are not surprised. Microsoft The general BOFH attitude towards large firms (VBCs) is one of contempt; their credo (hard to fault in terms of accuracy) is that VBCs promote stupid people who then produce stupid corporate policy. Corporate is a dirty word to most BOFHen. Microsoft notably comes in for an exceptionally high level of abuse. Much of this must be put down to job-related frustration; rare is the BOFH who is not required to support MS products, and these products have a long-established reputation for being a pig to maintain and support. The Microsoft policy of global domination by marketing may also raise the hackles of the BOFH hackers, being the opposite of all they stand for. The BOFH view of MS was summarised well by HK: I trust Microsoft. I trust them to be spectacularly unable to get anything right, including and especially hard things like industrial espionage. Sure, they'll make clownish, clumsy stabs at it and fail in predictable, amusing and embarrassing ways, and then do it all over again. And their victi^H^H users will not only forgive them but spend a lot of energy making up excuses for them. Having said that, grudging praise of very limited aspects of MS apps is not unknown among BOFHen. It is however very, very rare. Linux BOFHen do not generally share the unbounded joy that Linux seems to bring many hackers. Their concern is that a new generation of sysadmin wannabees is about to rise, who like to tell BOFHen their jobs but don't know their /dev/arse from their elbow. The BOFH creed on operating systems is summed up in the a.s.r. FAQ: Q3.1: Are there any OSs which don't suck? A: No. See the hall of shame and OSes that suck and GA was more specific: Eh? Linux is luserproof? What kind of proper set up is that, ripping out all removable media devices and ethernet, freezing the hard drive spindle, encasing it in concrete and dropping it off a pier? Darwination An interesting offshoot of the BOFH attitude has been appreciation of Darwin's theory of evolution. The BOFHen generally believe (and the facts appear to be on their side) that they are among the more clued and adaptable of Earth's inhabitants, and that any upwards evolution of the human race is only possible if the herds of lusers are thinned out a little. ... ---end--- On 7 May 2001, at 8:50, Koivu, Lisa scribbled with alacrity and cogency: ... However, the real question is, what's PHB? -- Please see the
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Work smarter not harderis that anything like, Know the difference between doing things right and doing the right thing? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 01:51PM PHB comes from Dilbert: Pointy Haired Boss. Those managers who wander around in a clueless state of perceived self-importance offering wonderful platitudes like Work smarter not harder and such. Generally they wind up being the chickens discussed in a related response. Rodd Original Message dated 5/7/01, 11:50:27 AM Author: Koivu, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs: Yes, Rodd, you are right. There are times when being blunt is warranted. I do it now - I couldn't a few months ago. At my last employer I was very very good at it and my boss let us do our jobs without interference. However, the real question is, what's PHB? :P -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E Barbie as Glinda from The Wizard of Oz Our Price: $19.99 Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. Manufacturer's age: 3 years and up Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. Shipping weight: 0.7 pounds. Note: Giftwrapping not available for this item. Packaging: This item may be delivered in the manufacturer's original packaging, which could reveal the contents of the box. ASIN: B4SU3E From Toysrus.com Amazon.com Editorial Review Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of course--and pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of the North from the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is welcomed to Munchkinland. She has long, curly strawberry-blonde hair topped by a tall lavender-pink crown, and she's wearing a sparkling pink satin ball gown ornamented with silver stars and butterflies. She also has on a silver braided belt. Her outfit is completed with pink heels and a long, lavender magic wand that fits in her hand. Raise her arm (or press the button on her back), and you'll hear the wand's magical brrinnng! sound or Glinda's voice saying, Tap your heels together three times. Sound effects are produced by three included button cell batteries, which can be replaced. Say it again, Glinda, just so we'll never forget: There's no place like home. --Marcie Bovetz Safety Information Choking hazard: Small parts. Not for children under 3 years. - On 7 May 2001, at 10:21, Marianne Brooks wrote: Hmm, shaved head, why didn't I think of that? I would imagine a woman with a shaved head might be as effective...add a tatoo, some leather pants and a scowl and I've got a new me! :-) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
Eric, What's with you and Barbie? David A. Barbour Eric D. Pierce wrote: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN2/B4SU3E Barbie as Glinda from The Wizard of Oz Our Price: $19.99 Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. Manufacturer's age: 3 years and up Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. Shipping weight: 0.7 pounds. Note: Giftwrapping not available for this item. Packaging: This item may be delivered in the manufacturer's original packaging, which could reveal the contents of the box. ASIN: B4SU3E From Toysrus.com Amazon.com Editorial Review Are you a good witch or a bad witch? A good witch, of course--and pretty as well! Dressed as Glinda, the good witch of the North from the beloved book and movie The Wizard of Oz, Barbie is welcomed to Munchkinland. She has long, curly strawberry-blonde hair topped by a tall lavender-pink crown, and she's wearing a sparkling pink satin ball gown ornamented with silver stars and butterflies. She also has on a silver braided belt. Her outfit is completed with pink heels and a long, lavender magic wand that fits in her hand. Raise her arm (or press the button on her back), and you'll hear the wand's magical brrinnng! sound or Glinda's voice saying, Tap your heels together three times. Sound effects are produced by three included button cell batteries, which can be replaced. Say it again, Glinda, just so we'll never forget: There's no place like home. --Marcie Bovetz Safety Information Choking hazard: Small parts. Not for children under 3 years. - On 7 May 2001, at 10:21, Marianne Brooks wrote: Hmm, shaved head, why didn't I think of that? I would imagine a woman with a shaved head might be as effective...add a tatoo, some leather pants and a scowl and I've got a new me! :-) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: David A. Barbour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
