Re: [osdcmy-public] Fwd: [PC-BSD Announce] PC-BSD 8.0-RC
hm2.. will wait for any announcements then.. :)~ stakat jd ajk susun kusi tuh boleh la.. nk jd speaker.. huih ntah bile baru layak.. haha -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
Bros, Think out of the box? web server is not the only oss solution available kan. Figure/statistic is real. whats achieved is real. WTF? from 70s to 90s? thanks for the continuos awareness, marketing and supports from OSCC folks, and dont have to write a scrip to get the header out, ready solution is available. wait till total saving is announced...u all will be amazed and maybe wonder too, as usual. like it or not, demand for support and training is coming from this sector, and we all should start to get ready for this, rather than arguing the statistic. MM On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi all, I think not, I did a quick dirty survey of a few major .gov websites and this is the result: 4 out of 19 are NOT OSS, thats 79% OSS, and 79 is not 95%! Few intereting things to note: 1. www.malaysia.gov.my, THE MAIN .gov portal is running IIS! 2. those guys that went oracle prob have big budgets... 3. The TRANSFORMATION server is running IIS, http://www.transformation.gov.my WTF?! Isn't the whole transform. initiative to change the way we work, think 'out of the box', be bolder, have some 'blue ocean' endeavors, 'walk the talk...' ? -- and they fall back to a 'safe' and 'no-risk' way. Is the big man aware the message this is putting across - prob. not.. like they say: the're lies, damn lies and statistics... perhaps Raja can enlighten us further? Treasuryhttp://www.treasury.gov.my/ Apache ? EduWeb TV http://www.eduwebtv.com/Apache 2.2, PHP OSCChttp://www.oscc.org.my/ Apache 2.2.3 SSM,http://www.ssm.com.my/ Apache1.3 Companies Comm. MIDAhttp://www.mida.gov.my/en_v2/ apache2.2 MyIdea http://www.myideas.my Apache2.2.3 MDEChttp://www.mscmalaysia.my/ Apache2.2.3 JAKIM http://www.halal.gov.my/Apache2.2.6, PHP SMIDec http://www.smidec.gov.my/ drupal? Apach32.2.11 eGov Portsl http://www.malaysia.gov.my/EN/Pages/default.aspx IIS 7.0 MATRADE http://www.matrade.gov.my/cms/index.jsp Java? Gov Transfm http://www.transformation.gov.my/ IIS Server Program eSyariahhttp://www.esyariah.gov.my Oracle HTTP Server/1.3.22 BLESS, https://www.bless.gov.my Oracle-Application-Server-10g/10.1.2.0.2 Biz Licnsing Bank Negara http://www.bnm.gov.my/ PHP 1 Malaysia http://www.1malaysia.com.my/PHP Min of Entrphttp://www.mecd.gov.my/ timed out Coop PS how'd get the above info? write script to download the webpages form URLs, use regular expressions to pick up keywords, store into arrays, etc... nah, too long to write and debug, unless I got some web scraping code already.. just look at the HTTP response headers, sometime they give quite a bit of info.. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Mohd Fazli Azran Abd Malek mfazliaz...@gmail.com wrote: That was realy weird.. in gosconf the said 70% but the figure is increase... what to say Maybe term of server or application most figure they do.. like CMS/PHP/APACHE or OO... but not desktop... some Server like CentOS or FreeBSD On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: 95 percent Adoption does not mean everything is using OSS. Its good to know most of the agencies know what is OSS. Can OSS answer this 1) Who going to support? 2) The cost of implementation justify or not? 3) Training? With the large majority of government bodies currently on OSS, the Mampu's next goal is to help these agencies achieve self-sufficiency so that they would be able to support their own OSS implementations, and write their own in-house applications, said Tan. We want Malaysia to become a technology producer, rather than exclusively technology consumers, she said. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:34 PM, CL Chow klrkdek...@gmail.com wrote: i doubt that On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah rajaiskand...@gmail.com wrote: news article : http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,62060853,00.htm?scid=nl_z_ntnd details can get from : http://knowledge.oscc.org.my/practice-areas/government/oss-implementation-by-federal-and-state-government/latest-oss-adoption-17.12.09.pdf/at_download/file -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
Do agree with you bro. This year with the cutting cost gov moving into self made application and support and For me, OSS is the suitable choice. With free license, easy to get documentation, community support and OSCC. I do find surge in OSS demand. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:24 AM, MM marz...@gmail.com wrote: Bros, Think out of the box? web server is not the only oss solution available kan. Figure/statistic is real. whats achieved is real. WTF? from 70s to 90s? thanks for the continuos awareness, marketing and supports from OSCC folks, and dont have to write a scrip to get the header out, ready solution is available. wait till total saving is announced...u all will be amazed and maybe wonder too, as usual. like it or not, demand for support and training is coming from this sector, and we all should start to get ready for this, rather than arguing the statistic. MM -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
hi all, thanks for the criticism... I criticise because we NEED to be critical (not to condemn), one should not just accept being spoon-fed numbers as they are, but must be substantiated. Perhaps I am cynical, but I/we have been fed too much positive numbers by the powers that be, so much so that everything looks rosy... Look at what we have been told about MSC, is it a real success..? Maybe I have been in this industry, and at the 'bleeding edge' for too long, I wanna belief, but ... just believing ain't gonna make it happen. I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! Also, as a community I want us all to be wary, keep improving ourselves. No I don't wanna wait for the numbers, beacuse as I mentioned before, the numbers (or rather statistics) may lie! (and yes, I majored in Statistics). Web servers are not the only OSS soltn, true, but they are the most visible and easiest to assess. And Web Servers are where OSS has the strongest justification, compared to the desktop. If we don't/can't have a strong foothold there then, the chances on desktop are even slimmer. And looking at the link Haris provided, Open Office usage are pretty low, despite (from talking to OSCC staff), they have conducted many Open Office classes, so the uptake is still low... On the other hand, Raja I believe, has told me that the majority of Web Servers has gone OSS, mainly because internal IT Dept, either couldn't get a budget, or wait for a budget and decided to 'try' OSS, found that it works and took it from there. There could also have been guys that are already OSS supporters and persuaded their management to go OSS. These guys (respective IT depts) are the guerilla fighters of the OSS community and should be applauded and supported. They should be 'recruited' to be part of OSDC if not already so. Perhaps some of them are members of the OSDC, and could they pls give their views? But the point I'd like to make is that the success of OSS then is still limited, its the result of action of small groups of 'enthusiasts' within the government, and is still NOT A MATTER OF POLICY, or it may be policy but its not being followed... Case in point, talk to OSCC staff, and they'll tell you that their frustration is they have no 'enforcement' power for OSS. I think, a major victory would have been won, if a gov tender comes out, and states that it HAS to be OSS, then that would be significant. And this ties in to the point about demand for services for OSS, and I agree with the rest of you guys, yes this will grow, we better be ready. Just a rather blunt questions, if a tender for a big gov OSS project comes out, who do you think will get the job, companies like Acenture, IBM, Sun (Sun IBM are OSS companies too...) or some small OSS company? Do you think we can be part of it? So my point is not to just feel good, but be ready, otherwise the prize we are fighting for will be stolen by somebody ..wasn't it Steve Jobs who, in a speech to Stanford, said ..stay lean, stay hungry.. ? On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:31 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: Do agree with you bro. This year with the cutting cost gov moving into self made application and support and For me, OSS is the suitable choice. With free license, easy to get documentation, community support and OSCC. I do find surge in OSS demand. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:24 AM, MM marz...@gmail.com wrote: Bros, Think out of the box? web server is not the only oss solution available kan. Figure/statistic is real. whats achieved is real. WTF? from 70s to 90s? thanks for the continuos awareness, marketing and supports from OSCC folks, and dont have to write a scrip to get the header out, ready solution is available. wait till total saving is announced...u all will be amazed and maybe wonder too, as usual. like it or not, demand for support and training is coming from this sector, and we all should start to get ready for this, rather than arguing the statistic. MM -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
I'ts really hard to stop bitching but this 95 % business is really getting to me hahahhahaha... Anyway, just a few months ago, it was 70 % http://www.opensource.org/node/489. Wow! from 70% to 95% in a few months. By this rate we will have 115% by next year hahhahahaha... This was my take when it reached 70 % previously. Enjoy The gist of it: Revealing statistics without showing the methodology is the equivalent of saying the world is flat and you will fall off its edge if you travel too far. Anyway, keep up the good work Boh Yap. I'll be bitching^H^H^H^H^H criticising too I promise myself not to bitch too much but this is such a troll bait, I have to bite. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to belittle OSCC here, it's just that I believe that claims must be backed by facts, not just some numbers plucked from the air (maybe the facts are there that I just couldn't find it, if so, please point me to the right direction). My beef is this, how the heck do you get 70% from? just because a wannabe geek inside a gov. office uses OOo suddenly the whole office is counted as adopting open source? What about mixed environment, how do you count that? What's the methodology? What about running OOo on Windows? is that opensource or not? Things like these are important because it helps us to focus on what is needed. I mean, FOSS (OSS/FLOSS/whatever) is supposed to be winning and yet MS is laughing all the way to the bank with our tax money, what gives? The next guy shouting cybermerdeka! would be laughed at and yet the gov still kow-tow to Balmer like he's some enlighten being or something. Didn't someone say that the greatest achievement of the devil is to convince the world he does not exist... not necessarily true, but... Note: a more relevant study would show how much licenses purchased say last year compared to this year and how much we actually spend and how much saving is done. I guess those numbers are just too depressing to be released. Azrul Azrul Sensei On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi all, thanks for the criticism... I criticise because we NEED to be critical (not to condemn), one should not just accept being spoon-fed numbers as they are, but must be substantiated. Perhaps I am cynical, but I/we have been fed too much positive numbers by the powers that be, so much so that everything looks rosy... Look at what we have been told about MSC, is it a real success..? Maybe I have been in this industry, and at the 'bleeding edge' for too long, I wanna belief, but ... just believing ain't gonna make it happen. I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! Also, as a community I want us all to be wary, keep improving ourselves. No I don't wanna wait for the numbers, beacuse as I mentioned before, the numbers (or rather statistics) may lie! (and yes, I majored in Statistics). Web servers are not the only OSS soltn, true, but they are the most visible and easiest to assess. And Web Servers are where OSS has the strongest justification, compared to the desktop. If we don't/can't have a strong foothold there then, the chances on desktop are even slimmer. And looking at the link Haris provided, Open Office usage are pretty low, despite (from talking to OSCC staff), they have conducted many Open Office classes, so the uptake is still low... On the other hand, Raja I believe, has told me that the majority of Web Servers has gone OSS, mainly because internal IT Dept, either couldn't get a budget, or wait for a budget and decided to 'try' OSS, found that it works and took it from there. There could also have been guys that are already OSS supporters and persuaded their management to go OSS. These guys (respective IT depts) are the guerilla fighters of the OSS community and should be applauded and supported. They should be 'recruited' to be part of OSDC if not already so. Perhaps some of them are members of the OSDC, and could they pls give their views? But the point I'd like to make is that the success of OSS then is still limited, its the result of action of small groups of 'enthusiasts' within the government, and is still NOT A MATTER OF POLICY, or it may be policy but its not being followed... Case in
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
bos, with a little stretching, it can get to more than that: the number of agencies in the jpa list is 724 and from that number 691 have adopted some form of oss implementation which gives 95% but there are also a number of public sector agencies that are not listed in the jpa list (eg smaller and 'independent' badan / yayasan / majlis / pejabat / institut). if these agencies that adopted oss were added to the 691, it is possible to get more than 100%. but it is in the details which are interesting. pls do have a look at http://knowledge.oscc.org.my/practice-areas/government/oss-implementation-by-federal-and-state-government/oss-adoption this gives the details of which agency implemented what oss solution. for example, there are lots using lighttpd, besides apache. how did this agencies get to lighttpd ? for terengganu.gov.my and johordt.gov.my - the state agencies are running off from the state govt shared data centre services - creating multisite portals. it's in the details that scares m$. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Azrul MADISA azrulha...@gmail.com wrote: I'ts really hard to stop bitching but this 95 % business is really getting to me hahahhahaha... Anyway, just a few months ago, it was 70 % http://www.opensource.org/node/489. Wow! from 70% to 95% in a few months. By this rate we will have 115% by next year hahhahahaha... This was my take when it reached 70 % previously. Enjoy The gist of it: Revealing statistics without showing the methodology is the equivalent of saying the world is flat and you will fall off its edge if you travel too far. Anyway, keep up the good work Boh Yap. I'll be bitching^H^H^H^H^H criticising too I promise myself not to bitch too much but this is such a troll bait, I have to bite. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to belittle OSCC here, it's just that I believe that claims must be backed by facts, not just some numbers plucked from the air (maybe the facts are there that I just couldn't find it, if so, please point me to the right direction). My beef is this, how the heck do you get 70% from? just because a wannabe geek inside a gov. office uses OOo suddenly the whole office is counted as adopting open source? What about mixed environment, how do you count that? What's the methodology? What about running OOo on Windows? is that opensource or not? Things like these are important because it helps us to focus on what is needed. I mean, FOSS (OSS/FLOSS/whatever) is supposed to be winning and yet MS is laughing all the way to the bank with our tax money, what gives? The next guy shouting cybermerdeka! would be laughed at and yet the gov still kow-tow to Balmer like he's some enlighten being or something. Didn't someone say that the greatest achievement of the devil is to convince the world he does not exist... not necessarily true, but... Note: a more relevant study would show how much licenses purchased say last year compared to this year and how much we actually spend and how much saving is done. I guess those numbers are just too depressing to be released. Azrul Azrul Sensei On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi all, thanks for the criticism... I criticise because we NEED to be critical (not to condemn), one should not just accept being spoon-fed numbers as they are, but must be substantiated. Perhaps I am cynical, but I/we have been fed too much positive numbers by the powers that be, so much so that everything looks rosy... Look at what we have been told about MSC, is it a real success..? Maybe I have been in this industry, and at the 'bleeding edge' for too long, I wanna belief, but ... just believing ain't gonna make it happen. I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! I for one don't want the OSS community to just 'feel good' just becos some numbers says we are winning... been thru too many situations like that, where I thought I would win becos we/we had the better knowledge, better technology, better product, but underestimated the 'enemies' marketing power. Our enemies are strong and they have marketing dollars to spend... think M$! Also, as a community I want us all to be wary, keep improving ourselves. No I don't wanna wait for the numbers, beacuse as I mentioned before, the numbers (or rather statistics) may lie! (and yes, I majored in Statistics). Web servers are not the only OSS soltn, true, but they are the most visible and easiest to assess. And Web Servers are where OSS has the strongest justification, compared to the desktop. If we don't/can't have a strong foothold there then, the
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
The survey data base on survey forms given to gov agencies during workshop, training and conference. It will be verified by email and later on by phone call. Yep, the sudden increase due to OSCC has the data but need to wait for verification by phone call. I believe last month OSCC done that. If the gov agencies do not know OSS or do not have any OSS implimentation of OSS MAMPU will call them to OSCC for OSS Opportunity Workshop http://www.oscc.org.my/content/view/266/139/ No agencies can run from OSCC MAMPU. :) Hehehe. Anyway we need to understand, from OSCC own website The Malaysian Public Sector OSS Master Plan was launched on 16 July 2004 to create and enhance value using OSS within the Public Sector ICT framework in providing efficient, secure and quality services. my question :- Can we as OSS community and companies provided secure and quality OSS services to gov agencies? ps. Im not in OSCC MAMPU since August 2010. This opinion base on 2 and half years in OSCC MAMPU and its just my personnal view. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah rajaiskand...@gmail.com wrote: bos, with a little stretching, it can get to more than that: the number of agencies in the jpa list is 724 and from that number 691 have adopted some form of oss implementation which gives 95% but there are also a number of public sector agencies that are not listed in the jpa list (eg smaller and 'independent' badan / yayasan / majlis / pejabat / institut). if these agencies that adopted oss were added to the 691, it is possible to get more than 100%. but it is in the details which are interesting. pls do have a look at http://knowledge.oscc.org.my/practice-areas/government/oss-implementation-by-federal-and-state-government/oss-adoption this gives the details of which agency implemented what oss solution. for example, there are lots using lighttpd, besides apache. how did this agencies get to lighttpd ? for terengganu.gov.my and johordt.gov.my - the state agencies are running off from the state govt shared data centre services - creating multisite portals. it's in the details that scares m$. -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
Re: [osdcmy-public] Malaysian Government Claims 95 Percent OSS Adoption
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: The survey data base on survey forms given to gov agencies during workshop, training and conference. It will be verified by email and later on by phone call. Yep, the sudden increase due to OSCC has the data but need to wait for verification by phone call. I believe last month OSCC done that. If the gov agencies do not know OSS or do not have any OSS implimentation of OSS MAMPU will call them to OSCC for OSS Opportunity Workshop http://www.oscc.org.my/content/view/266/139/ No agencies can run from OSCC MAMPU. :) Hehehe. Anyway we need to understand, from OSCC own website The Malaysian Public Sector OSS Master Plan was launched on 16 July 2004 to create and enhance value using OSS within the Public Sector ICT framework in providing efficient, secure and quality services. my question :- Can we as OSS community and companies provided secure and quality OSS services to gov agencies? ps. Im not in OSCC MAMPU since August 2010. This opinion base on 2 and half years in OSCC MAMPU and its just my personnal view. Opps since august 2009 -- Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
