Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Sukender, Well, this can easily happen with mails, since we often write quite quickly (or well, at least *I* do answer often quickly, and I suppose that's the same for many!)... That and we're missing some vital information to be able to ascertain someone's tone (facial expressions, voice level, etc.) :-) J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Well, this can easily happen with mails, since we often write quite quickly (or well, at least *I* do answer often quickly, and I suppose that's the same for many!)... That and we're missing some vital information to be able to ascertain someone's tone (facial expressions, voice level, etc.) :-) You're right! From now, I'll fill my mails with plenty of stupid smileys and typos, as if I was a 14 years old analphabet chatting on intant messaging while listening to Crazy Frog: kikoo lol put1 tro mdr le keum lol lol lol ll :) :) :) :) :) =) XD :) !! allé @+ x15. (Note: I you don't understand french... well you miss nothing) A last one: :D Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
The supreme shame is that I made a typo in my normal text... (I you don't understand = If...) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Guys, On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sukender, Well, this can easily happen with mails, since we often write quite quickly (or well, at least *I* do answer often quickly, and I suppose that's the same for many!)... That and we're missing some vital information to be able to ascertain someone's tone (facial expressions, voice level, etc.) :-) Can we stop all the kiss and make up nonsense, next we'll be wearing flowers in our hair and listening to girly pop. I think what we really need is an osgflamefest example that we can put sparring partners in for a few rounds, and let the rest of cheer the blood letting for the sidelines on! Robert @ (my best attempt at a flower in the hair smiley ;-) ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Robert, Can we stop all the kiss and make up nonsense Hey, come on, we're just trying to be friendly... J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Robert, Can we stop all the kiss and make up nonsense Hey, come on, we're just trying to be friendly... And I was only joking... or at least trying to... But now you are picking on ME, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!! ;-) Trying hard not to take oneself too seriously xxx Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Mattias, That's for the further note about your binaries. I have on my TODO list setting up svn branch for dependencies and binaries - I'm slowly getting there. Getting yourself write access to this would be appropriate. In the meantime I can add a link to your zip. Could members of the community also test this package? Robert. On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Mattias Helsing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHelsing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Gordon, Mattias You can edit the wiki page .. :) Search the wiki site for the password its on there Nope, the downloads page is locked and can only be edited by an admin. J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi, C++ object/static library/dynamic library are not compatible across compilers because the standard does not define a mangling format. The C standard defines the way to name the variables and the functions in object files. C++ doesn't. So there is one mangling format per compiler. Gordon Tomlinson wrote: Mattias You can edit the wiki page .. :) Search the wiki site for the password its on there __ Capture the magic of Christmas this year see http://www.capturethemagic.com __ Gordon Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vis-sim.com www.gordontomlinson.com __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mattias Helsing Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:34 PM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHels ing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Sukender, IMHO your tone is too confrontational. Nothing is gained from this tone, as no one here as far as I know has any control over these issues. Stupid question #1: Why use VC9? For me there is *absolutely no improvements* that I'll use. May we wait for VC10? If you don't need it don't buy it. Speak with your wallet. Stupid question #2: Why the hell C++ .lib can't be compatible across compilers; I mean, is that so difficult to set an standard? Or is there something I don't know? Ask Microsoft, I'm not sure anyone here can answer this (other than say that it's marketing or bad programming, but I think even that isn't the whole story - it's rarely that simple - and just bad mouthing without having all the facts doesn't gain us anything) There are some other features in MSVC that will make your programs crash if you link libs with the feature disabled into an executable with the feature enabled. One example is iterator debugging (_HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING), another is checked iterators (_SECURE_SCL). These can bring problems akin to those which different versions of the VC++ runtime (DLL vs static, or version number) can bring. There are only three solutions IMHO: 1. be informed about these issues in order to keep control over your build system 2. code in pure C so that the VC++ runtimes are not involved 3. do not use MSVC to compile anything (and be aware of the business implications of this) J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
I stand corrected :), ( sitting actually ) Gordon __ Gordon Tomlinson Product Manager 3D Email : gtomlinson @ overwatch.textron.com __ (C): (+1) 571-265-2612 (W): (+1) 703-437-7651 Self defence is not a function of learning tricks but is a function of how quickly and intensely one can arouse one's instinct for survival - Master Tambo Tetsura -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Sébastien Guay Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies Hi Gordon, Mattias You can edit the wiki page .. :) Search the wiki site for the password its on there Nope, the downloads page is locked and can only be edited by an admin. J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Mattias, I have been meaning to do exactly what you have done, but have not gotten around to it. According to Microsoft, if your libraries have only plain C interfaces, and don't use STL internally, then you can get away with mixing libraries from different versions of their compiler. When I quickly looked over the third party libs for OSG they all seemed to be C (but I could have easily missed something), except for maybe the input device one, which we don't use, so we just used the VS8 third party libs while building OSG for VS9. But I have been meaning to get around to building everything for VS9, just to be safe. Are your binaries built with _SCL_SECURE=0 and _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGIING=0? This would only apply to C++ third party libs, but as J-S pointed out, it does cause binary incompatibilities, similar to those caused by mixing /MT and /MD binaries. We turn these two features off for performance reasons, and we recently discovered that boost 1.36.0 now hardwires them to off - so anyone linking with this version (or I assume a later version as well) of boost would need to build OSG and their own code with these two features disabled as well. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Mattias Helsing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHelsing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi JS, IMHO your tone is too confrontational. Nothing is gained from this tone, as no one here as far as I know has any control over these issues. Wow... this was absultely *not* intentional; sorry if you found it that way. I was just aking some questions that maybe other share... Stupid question #1: Why use VC9? For me there is *absolutely no improvements* that I'll use. May we wait for VC10? If you don't need it don't buy it. Speak with your wallet. Well, I was talking about Express (free) versions. I forgot to mention, sorry. And thank you for precisions about .libs. Anyway, I'll (for now) keep VC8 for my use and wait for a compiler to support C++0x :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Sukender, Wow... this was absultely *not* intentional; sorry if you found it that way. I was just aking some questions that maybe other share... OK, good to know. I may have misunderstood as well, but it did seem that way to me. Well, I was talking about Express (free) versions. I forgot to mention, sorry. When VC9 express came out, MS had removed links to VC8 express... But now, perhaps seeing that some people preferred to stay with VC8 express, both are available so you can choose. I still use VC8 as well, but we have clients who use VC9 (perhaps because that's what comes when you subscribe to MS's software subscriptions) so we have to support all three (VC7.1, VC8 and VC9). Sorry again for having overreacted... J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Brian, Sukender, all, Nice to see the response I expected when posting the first notice about this in sept. Either that post was a) in my imagination b) lost in space or c) not very clear ;) Sukender: #1 I didn't need VC90 (Express). My customers did and thats all the motivation I need #2 Can't answer this in any better way then previous posters On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Brian Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mattias, I have been meaning to do exactly what you have done, but have not gotten around to it. According to Microsoft, if your libraries have only plain C interfaces, and don't use STL internally, then you can get away with mixing libraries from different versions of their compiler. When I quickly looked over the third party libs for OSG they all seemed to be C (but I could have easily missed something), except for maybe the input device one, which we don't use, so we just used the VS8 third party libs while building OSG for VS9. But I have been meaning to get around to building everything for VS9, just to be safe. Are your binaries built with _SCL_SECURE=0 and _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGIING=0? This would only apply to C++ third party libs, but as J-S pointed out, it does cause binary incompatibilities, similar to those caused by mixing /MT and /MD binaries. We turn these two features off for performance reasons, and we recently discovered that boost 1.36.0 now hardwires them to off - so anyone linking with this version (or I assume a later version as well) of boost would need to build OSG and their own code with these two features disabled as well. I cant answer this of the top of my head. I have the source tree around of course (but not here) so I will look into it and possibly rebuild/resubmit. Basically I have used Mike Weiblen build scripts for building these deps so if the msvc80 deps didn't do anything special for these defines then I haven't either. I will get back with more info. cheers Mattias On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Mattias Helsing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHelsing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi JS, Thanks for detailed explanation. I had spoted that the previsous version link appeared on the VS9 web page. Sorry again for having overreacted... No problem. Moreover you started your sentence with IMHO :) . Well, this can easily happen with mails, since we often write quite quickly (or well, at least *I* do answer often quickly, and I suppose that's the same for many!)... Cheers, Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Hi Mattias, I did not went to VC9 since VC8 is almost identical and no dependencies were built. Thanks for clearing that second point. Stupid question #1: Why use VC9? For me there is *absolutely no improvements* that I'll use. May we wait for VC10? Stupid question #2: Why the hell C++ .lib can't be compatible across compilers; I mean, is that so difficult to set an standard? Or is there something I don't know? Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:33:37 +0100, Mattias Helsing [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHelsing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
#2 is simple is because Microsoft cannot write a decent linker and compiler and DLL's suck on Windoze compare to how binaries are on Unix/Linux ( the IDE is the only useful things and thats because they stole all Borland's IDE engineers ;) ) #1 I cannot see any need to go to VC9 I know wee are not planning to , simply no reason whats so ever __ Capture the magic of Christmas this year see http://www.capturethemagic.com __ Gordon Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vis-sim.com www.gordontomlinson.com __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sukender Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:15 PM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies Hi Mattias, I did not went to VC9 since VC8 is almost identical and no dependencies were built. Thanks for clearing that second point. Stupid question #1: Why use VC9? For me there is *absolutely no improvements* that I'll use. May we wait for VC10? Stupid question #2: Why the hell C++ .lib can't be compatible across compilers; I mean, is that so difficult to set an standard? Or is there something I don't know? Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:33:37 +0100, Mattias Helsing [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHels ing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies
Mattias You can edit the wiki page .. :) Search the wiki site for the password its on there __ Capture the magic of Christmas this year see http://www.capturethemagic.com __ Gordon Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vis-sim.com www.gordontomlinson.com __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mattias Helsing Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:34 PM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: [osg-users] msvc90 dependencies Hi all, I have seen in recent posts that people aren't aware of my set of prebuilt binaries for vc90. It is here: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/People/MattiasHels ing It has been there since early sept. A few people have requested that it be linked to from the win32 dependencies wiki page but I have refrained from poking Robert about this since I know that Mike has a plan for msvc90. Until then the link may be a good idea. cheers Mattias ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
