[ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Maleny
Lynn I was told that the currentinfo is the same as Sally mentions, the website will be updated as more is available. Jane "Joyce, Sally" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI everyone,Leigh - I noticed you got the web address slightly wrong - tryhttp://www.fountainhead.com.au/education.htmA bit of a background to the Maleny Conference - "From Here toMaternity"The world's # 1 childbirth expert will visit Fountainhead for probablyher last Australian visit. Sheila whom is published in 39 languages will assist you to build abirthplan empower you for the big day. Health experts are welcome to attend. Greg Neville andother speakers will also join us in supporting roles. Come for just the weekend or come for thewhole week to sample all Fountainhead has to offer. (Documentary being made for TV as it happens)I think they are still looking for people to assist in planning theconference.Sally-Original Message-From: Leigh Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]! ! .com.au]Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 8:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australiahi Lynne, Sheila is apparently coming to Maleny for a conference. Seewww.fountainhead.com. Leigh- Original Message -From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:33 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia What! Not QLD? -DISCLAIMERThe information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in re! ! liance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Hoi Mary and others of the list, That's a thing that is of our concern. We don't know how long the baby has to live, nobody can forsay that and the parents are also worried on how the baby is going to die. I am glad that you gave this information. Maybe in my messages it sounds if I have worked it all trough, but I am dreaming of it at night, and sometimes a lot of doubts are my share too. I try to listen to them and give my support. We also find a lot of friendship and support in our birthcentre, especially in the postnatal talkgroup. It's amazing how the other mothers are acting towards the mother. It gives a very good feeling. On the operation it's not only the matter of survival but also the question on quality of life. They forsay that if the baby would survive surgery, he has to stay for at least 2 years in the hospital and will have a lot of operations during his life. I hope we can give the baby love and warmth and I hope that the parents will afterwards have a warm feeling about it, without doubts of having acted well. Warm greetings Lieve On 02-12-2002 08:24, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lieve, 8 yrs ago I had a woman who had an U/S at 20 wks for her 4th baby (never had one before) and there were no abnomalities picked up on examination. Subsequently, she had a lovely homebirth waterbirth and had a little boy with good weight and APGARS. He wasn't as vigorous as the other children but fed and slept well. At about 2 wks of age he was going a bit blue in the lips after a feed and when X-Rayed was found to have an undeveloped left side of the heart. At that stage the only place to get treatment was thousands of kilometres away in Melbourne and only a 50/50 chance.of survival. The parents bravely opted not to put the baby through the operation and he died at home when he was 4 weeks old. The parents were so glad he was born at home and spent most of his short life with his family, in an atmosphere of love. MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alice's Baby!
Thank you, Robyn! I gatecrashed Leslie's birthday bbq yesterday...a few minutes before his birth time. Everyone was delighted when we had a hug at the moment his head was out and again just after when his body was all there. Rosie was there and his closest mates, who are all delightful youngsters. He was so happy Alice's baby arrived on his birthday, and I've just had an email from a dear friend...one of his daughters had a baby boy, not sure which day it was. Yes, I'm so privileged to be back in this field. Love to you all, Aviva, attempting to read the 188 emails unread! - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Alice's Baby! You are experiencing the euphoria of a grandmother Aviva. Well done women need women like you. Robyn --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
[ozmidwifery] Fw:
Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
RE: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Dear Lieve, The other thought that I have had on this is about when my grandfather died. He had cancer and we nursed him at home(I was a 15 year old at the time) until the very last when my grandmother suddenly wanted to go to hospital because she didn't want him to die in their bed, didn't want to lay in the bed that they shared and remember him dieing there but rather to remember their life together there. This was unexpected for the family and although this was a huge change of plans it was the in retrospect the right thing fro my grandmother and I am glad that my grandmother was respected in her wishes. The moral of the story, not to get too fixed on any one pathway. Being open, listening carefully with head and heart. In peace and joy Sally -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm Denise - it's Melissa here...I facilitate Birthtalk with Deb, my sister-in-law (who is the one who put the Question to Peter Beatty at Ipswich) and Karen (whose home birth story was mentioned in your friend's daughter's letter). I will not mention your friend's daughter's name here for privacy sake...but Denise - you should see the change in her since she started coming to Birthtalk. Her face is alive, and she is so focussed and excited about having a positive experience next time. She did not mention that at the last meeting, she also told part of her own story...which had us all shocked at the way she was treated, and how she was manipulated. I just want to say that not only is she making much effort, and with much enthusiasm, as you have said...but that she is very courageous and has a lot of spirit to come thru the experience she has and face it head on, to help make changes for other women, and for herself in the future. Melissa -- From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 6:51 AM Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings?? denise Hi Denise, I went with friends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
I know a male matron...we, his friends call him "Mother Pete"! - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! We have a maternity hospital run by a MATRON.. who signs herself nurse manager its like the dark ages! Sally Westbury --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:
Hi Denise -I have been trying to send you an email but it keeps bouncing back - please can you contact me off list . Power to these young mums!! And nice to have positive feedback too. Thanks pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Bumper stickers for ladies!
I like this one! aviva I guess the problem is finding a gentleman! or a man who will be one. LOL Rhonda ---Original Message--- --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Obviously you haven't seen me in sarong with workboots and thick socks! aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear kathleen I agree with what you say re Lady tagg. Can anyone with an etymological dictionary explain the derivation of woman I just here WOE MAN when it is said and the rib from Adam stuff, man came/ comes first therefore women are God's afterthought?? Denise - Original Message - From: Kathleen Fahy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Carolyn Hastie ; Lyn Ebert Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Aviva, I am one of those people who object to the term 'lady' and here is why. Lady is a term that has a particular set of expected behaviours. Those behaviours are the traditional feminine and submissive ones. Some women like behaving like ladies as it gains approval and assistance. Other women don't like behaving in those ways, or at least not all the time. In other words we don't want those expectations of behaviour put upon us by others. Thus, I cringe when I hear women who are the clients of midwifery services referred to as 'ladies' instead of 'women'. The concept of woman has not such behavioural expectations associated with it. Best wishes, Kathleen --Kathleen FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity Drive,Callaghan, 2308 Ph 02 49215966 Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/01/02 11:04am Hello, All, I refer to myself as a human being, a woman, as a lady, but most importantly, as me. One of my definitions of Woman: Woe to any man who attempts to harness me! A very dear male friend of mine defines a lady as a woman who has the patience to sit while the gentleman goes around to make her life just that little bit easier for a moment, by opening the car door and hold it open for her...to show his appreciation of her. After all, if she's wearing a dress, /or high heels, OR is pregnant, mothering, menopausing, PMT-ing, or otherwise feeling in any way vulnerable, small acts like opening heavy doors etc., can make her life easier. Personally, I like that. It was only when I was pregnant with Leslie and found opening very heavy doors to public buildings, and standing in trams became an issue for me, that I realised being a lady DID NOT mean sitting with one's knees together, but meant allowing others to make my life pleasanter. Enough of my prattling...I have some wonderful news! I'll put it in a separate email, so for those who have had no interest in the lady bit will still read it! Love to all the women, ladies, gents etc. on the list, Aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Pinky I enjoyed and then thought about what the title we use for ourselves means etymologically, overtly and co-vertly. Do I refer to myself as a Woman, lady or girl?? Which do I prefer and why. Possibly neither!Denise --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Lieve Lieve, Wij staan allemaal te samen met jullie. Veel sterkte aan jullie. Veel liefs, Aviva - Original Message - From: Lieve Huybrechts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together Hoi Mary and others of the list,That's a thing that is of our concern. We don't know how long the baby hasto live, nobody can forsay that and the parents are also worried on how thebaby is going to die.I am glad that you gave this information.Maybe in my messages it sounds if I have worked it all trough, but I amdreaming of it at night, and sometimes a lot of doubts are my share too.I try to listen to them and give my support. We also find a lot offriendship and support in our birthcentre, especially in the postnataltalkgroup. It's amazing how the other mothers are acting towards the mother.It gives a very good feeling.On the operation it's not only the matter of survival but also the questionon quality of life. They forsay that if the baby would survive surgery, hehas to stay for at least 2 years in the hospital and will have a lot ofoperations during his life.I hope we can give the baby love and warmth and I hope that the parents willafterwards have a warm feeling about it, without doubts of having actedwell.Warm greetingsLieve --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
RE: [ozmidwifery] Looking for Sarah
Hi I think Sarah changed her email recently - I have her listed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm Hi Melissa - could you please email me privately? Thanks, Lynne -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of rem melissa bruijnSent: Monday, 2 December 2002 11:39 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasmDenise - it's Melissa here...I facilitate Birthtalk with Deb, my sister-in-law (who is the one who put the Question to Peter Beatty at Ipswich) and Karen (whose home birth story was mentioned in your friend's daughter's letter). I will not mention your friend's daughter's name here for privacy sake...but Denise - you should see the change in her since she started coming to Birthtalk. Her face is alive, and she is so focussed and excited about having a positive experience next time. She did not mention that at the last meeting, she also told part of her own story...which had us all shocked at the way she was treated, and how she was manipulated. I just want to say that not only is she making much effort, and with much enthusiasm, as you have said...but that she is very courageous and has a lot of spirit to come thru the experience she has and face it head on, to help make changes for other women, and for herself in the future.Melissa--From: "Denise Hynd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 6:51 AM Dear ListersI am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasmI did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??deniseHi Denise, I went with friends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Hmmman afterthought - that is good - after the first thought and looking at what happened,further thought went into woman and just look what happened!! (Women are pretty awsome, you have to admit!) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Monday, 2 December 2002 11:35 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Obviously you haven't seen me in sarong with workboots and thick socks! aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear kathleen I agree with what you say re Lady tagg. Can anyone with an etymological dictionary explain the derivation of woman I just here WOE MAN when it is said and the rib from Adam stuff, man came/ comes first therefore women are God's afterthought?? Denise - Original Message - From: Kathleen Fahy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Carolyn Hastie ; Lyn Ebert Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Aviva, I am one of those people who object to the term 'lady' and here is why. Lady is a term that has a particular set of expected behaviours. Those behaviours are the traditional feminine and submissive ones. Some women like behaving like ladies as it gains approval and assistance. Other women don't like behaving in those ways, or at least not all the time. In other words we don't want those expectations of behaviour put upon us by others. Thus, I cringe when I hear women who are the clients of midwifery services referred to as 'ladies' instead of 'women'. The concept of woman has not such behavioural expectations associated with it. Best wishes, Kathleen --Kathleen FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity Drive,Callaghan, 2308 Ph 02 49215966 Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/01/02 11:04am Hello, All, I refer to myself as a human being, a woman, as a lady, but most importantly, as me. One of my definitions of Woman: Woe to any man who attempts to harness me! A very dear male friend of mine defines a lady as a woman who has the patience to sit while the gentleman goes around to make her life just that little bit easier for a moment, by opening the car door and hold it open for her...to show his appreciation of her. After all, if she's wearing a dress, /or high heels, OR is pregnant, mothering, menopausing, PMT-ing, or otherwise feeling in any way vulnerable, small acts like opening heavy doors etc., can make her life easier. Personally, I like that. It was only when I was pregnant with Leslie and found opening very heavy doors to public buildings, and standing in trams became an issue for me, that I realised being a lady DID NOT mean sitting with one's knees together, but meant allowing others to make my life pleasanter. Enough of my prattling...I have some wonderful news! I'll put it in a separate email, so for those who have had no interest in the lady bit will still read it! Love to all the women, ladies, gents etc. on the list, Aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Pinky I enjoyed and then thought about what the title we use for ourselves means etymologically, overtly and co-vertly. Do I refer to myself as a Woman, lady or girl?? Which do I prefer and why. Possibly neither!Denise --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
[ozmidwifery] Community Cabinet Meetings - QUEENSLAND
Hi everyone, Just a bit on the community cabinet process as it is a fantastic opportunity to actually meet with Ministers. QLD Cabinet Ministers meet in regional areas regularly. In 2002, Community Cabinets have beenheld at Stanthorpe (South East QLD), the Brisbane Convention Centre, Moranbah (Central QLD), the State Library (Brisbane), Sunnybank Hills (Brisbane), Cairns (North QLD), Barcaldine(Central QLD), Longreach (Western Queensland),the Royal Queensland Show (the Ekka -Brisbane), Gympie (South East QLD), Ipswich (South East QLD) and Chatsworth (North West QLD). In addition a full Cabinet has meet in Townsville (North QLD). The cabinet meetingsare part of the Government election promises to get out of hear what the community is saying. "It's part of the commitment to being a Government for everybody no matter where they live in Queensland" You can request a formal deputation or just rock up on the day and hope for the best. A formal deputation is the better option as you get allocated time but you have to get in early. The Department of Premier and Cabinetoffice handles the Community Cabinet so if anyone is interested in attending one next year (I don't think there are any more this year)I suggest you contact the Department and find out where they are being held. In addition there are quarterly Ministerial Forums which are held in each region of QLD. At the Forums, two Cabinet Ministers meet with twenty regional representatives, who represent a broad cross section of the community to discuss ideas and issues of regional significance. The purpose of the quarterly Forums is for regional communities to identify priority issues, needs and problems they want to raise with Government, and provide the mechanism for those issues to be presented directly to State Government Ministers by community members. This is another good opportunity to target the Pollies. There are opportunities for local individuals and groups can raise proposals directly with the State Government through these Forums . For more information you need to talk to Regional Communities Division (Department of Premier and Cabinet) on (07) 3235 9027 I am not sure if other states have similar processes as it was an initiative that the Labour party set up as part of it's election campaign. Sally. -Original Message-From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, 2 December 2002 8:51 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children. DISCLAIMER The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm Dear Melissa Thank you for that I have seen it for myself as I was in Brisbane with them last month! I wish other young mothers would find such heart and spirit to learn and share the learning with others and Act on what she has learnt . She is joy to her mother and family and community Denise - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm Denise - it's Melissa here...I facilitate Birthtalk with Deb, my sister-in-law (who is the one who put the Question to Peter Beatty at Ipswich) and Karen (whose home birth story was mentioned in your friend's daughter's letter). I will not mention your friend's daughter's name here for privacy sake...but Denise - you should see the change in her since she started coming to Birthtalk. Her face is alive, and she is so focussed and excited about having a positive experience next time. She did not mention that at the last meeting, she also told part of her own story...which had us all shocked at the way she was treated, and how she was manipulated. I just want to say that not only is she making much effort, and with much enthusiasm, as you have said...but that she is very courageous and has a lot of spirit to come thru the experience she has and face it head on, to help make changes for other women, and for herself in the future.Melissa--From: "Denise Hynd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 6:51 AM Dear ListersI am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasmI did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??deniseHi Denise, I went with friends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Fw:
PS I do not still have your contact details and cannot reply to you except this way for now Denise - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Pinky My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile 041 793 2570 Denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Hi Denise -I have been trying to send you an email but it keeps bouncing back - please can you contact me off list . Power to these young mums!! And nice to have positive feedback too. Thanks pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:
Dear Pinky My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile 041 793 2570 Denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Hi Denise -I have been trying to send you an email but it keeps bouncing back - please can you contact me off list . Power to these young mums!! And nice to have positive feedback too. Thanks pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Sounds like ahead of the fashion trends to me!!Denise - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Obviously you haven't seen me in sarong with workboots and thick socks! aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear kathleen I agree with what you say re Lady tagg. Can anyone with an etymological dictionary explain the derivation of woman I just here WOE MAN when it is said and the rib from Adam stuff, man came/ comes first therefore women are God's afterthought?? Denise - Original Message - From: Kathleen Fahy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Carolyn Hastie ; Lyn Ebert Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Aviva, I am one of those people who object to the term 'lady' and here is why. Lady is a term that has a particular set of expected behaviours. Those behaviours are the traditional feminine and submissive ones. Some women like behaving like ladies as it gains approval and assistance. Other women don't like behaving in those ways, or at least not all the time. In other words we don't want those expectations of behaviour put upon us by others. Thus, I cringe when I hear women who are the clients of midwifery services referred to as 'ladies' instead of 'women'. The concept of woman has not such behavioural expectations associated with it. Best wishes, Kathleen --Kathleen FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity Drive,Callaghan, 2308 Ph 02 49215966 Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/01/02 11:04am Hello, All, I refer to myself as a human being, a woman, as a lady, but most importantly, as me. One of my definitions of Woman: Woe to any man who attempts to harness me! A very dear male friend of mine defines a lady as a woman who has the patience to sit while the gentleman goes around to make her life just that little bit easier for a moment, by opening the car door and hold it open for her...to show his appreciation of her. After all, if she's wearing a dress, /or high heels, OR is pregnant, mothering, menopausing, PMT-ing, or otherwise feeling in any way vulnerable, small acts like opening heavy doors etc., can make her life easier. Personally, I like that. It was only when I was pregnant with Leslie and found opening very heavy doors to public buildings, and standing in trams became an issue for me, that I realised being a lady DID NOT mean sitting with one's knees together, but meant allowing others to make my life pleasanter. Enough of my prattling...I have some wonderful news! I'll put it in a separate email, so for those who have had no interest in the lady bit will still read it! Love to all the women, ladies, gents etc. on the list, Aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Pinky I enjoyed and then thought about what the title we use for ourselves means etymologically, overtly and co-vertly. Do I refer to myself as a Woman, lady or girl?? Which do I prefer and why. Possibly neither!Denise --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Community Cabinet Meetings - QUEENSLAND
What an opportunity for Qlders NMAP or related issues can be raised at many opportunities to ministers in front of other politically interested voters!!! Does any one on the list know if other state government do this ??Denise - Original Message - From: Joyce, Sally To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:08 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Community Cabinet Meetings - QUEENSLAND Hi everyone, Just a bit on the community cabinet process as it is a fantastic opportunity to actually meet with Ministers. QLD Cabinet Ministers meet in regional areas regularly. In 2002, Community Cabinets have beenheld at Stanthorpe (South East QLD), the Brisbane Convention Centre, Moranbah (Central QLD), the State Library (Brisbane), Sunnybank Hills (Brisbane), Cairns (North QLD), Barcaldine(Central QLD), Longreach (Western Queensland),the Royal Queensland Show (the Ekka -Brisbane), Gympie (South East QLD), Ipswich (South East QLD) and Chatsworth (North West QLD). In addition a full Cabinet has meet in Townsville (North QLD). The cabinet meetingsare part of the Government election promises to get out of hear what the community is saying. "It's part of the commitment to being a Government for everybody no matter where they live in Queensland" You can request a formal deputation or just rock up on the day and hope for the best. A formal deputation is the better option as you get allocated time but you have to get in early. The Department of Premier and Cabinetoffice handles the Community Cabinet so if anyone is interested in attending one next year (I don't think there are any more this year)I suggest you contact the Department and find out where they are being held. In addition there are quarterly Ministerial Forums which are held in each region of QLD. At the Forums, two Cabinet Ministers meet with twenty regional representatives, who represent a broad cross section of the community to discuss ideas and issues of regional significance. The purpose of the quarterly Forums is for regional communities to identify priority issues, needs and problems they want to raise with Government, and provide the mechanism for those issues to be presented directly to State Government Ministers by community members. This is another good opportunity to target the Pollies. There are opportunities for local individuals and groups can raise proposals directly with the State Government through these Forums . For more information you need to talk to Regional Communities Division (Department of Premier and Cabinet) on (07) 3235 9027 I am not sure if other states have similar processes as it was an initiative that the Labour party set up as part of it's election campaign. Sally. -Original Message-From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, 2 December 2002 8:51 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings??denise Hi Denise, I went withfriends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children. DISCLAIMER The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Touche Words have so many meanings Denise - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Hmmman afterthought - that is good - after the first thought and looking at what happened,further thought went into woman and just look what happened!! (Women are pretty awsome, you have to admit!) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Monday, 2 December 2002 11:35 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Obviously you haven't seen me in sarong with workboots and thick socks! aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear kathleen I agree with what you say re Lady tagg. Can anyone with an etymological dictionary explain the derivation of woman I just here WOE MAN when it is said and the rib from Adam stuff, man came/ comes first therefore women are God's afterthought?? Denise - Original Message - From: Kathleen Fahy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Carolyn Hastie ; Lyn Ebert Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Aviva, I am one of those people who object to the term 'lady' and here is why. Lady is a term that has a particular set of expected behaviours. Those behaviours are the traditional feminine and submissive ones. Some women like behaving like ladies as it gains approval and assistance. Other women don't like behaving in those ways, or at least not all the time. In other words we don't want those expectations of behaviour put upon us by others. Thus, I cringe when I hear women who are the clients of midwifery services referred to as 'ladies' instead of 'women'. The concept of woman has not such behavioural expectations associated with it. Best wishes, Kathleen --Kathleen FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity Drive,Callaghan, 2308 Ph 02 49215966 Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/01/02 11:04am Hello, All, I refer to myself as a human being, a woman, as a lady, but most importantly, as me. One of my definitions of Woman: Woe to any man who attempts to harness me! A very dear male friend of mine defines a lady as a woman who has the patience to sit while the gentleman goes around to make her life just that little bit easier for a moment, by opening the car door and hold it open for her...to show his appreciation of her. After all, if she's wearing a dress, /or high heels, OR is pregnant, mothering, menopausing, PMT-ing, or otherwise feeling in any way vulnerable, small acts like opening heavy doors etc., can make her life easier. Personally, I like that. It was only when I was pregnant with Leslie and found opening very heavy doors to public buildings, and standing in trams became an issue for me, that I realised being a lady DID NOT mean sitting with one's knees together, but meant allowing others to make my life pleasanter. Enough of my prattling...I have some wonderful news! I'll put it in a separate email, so for those who have had no interest in the lady bit will still read it! Love to all the women, ladies, gents etc. on the list, Aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Dear Pinky I enjoyed and then thought about what the title we use for ourselves means etymologically, overtly and co-vertly. Do I refer to myself as a Woman, lady or girl?? Which do I prefer and why. Possibly neither!Denise --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Looking for Sarah
Yes Jane that is Sarahs address Pinky - Original Message - From: Jane Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:41 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Looking for Sarah Hi I think Sarah changed her email recently - I have her listed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Community Cabinet Meetings - QUEENSLAND
Just a query to anyone who has an intimate knowledge (or a geneneral one) on how the State health system works. Denise's friend stated that she was told by Mr Beattie that NMAP had been presented to the federal government and it was up to them to implement and fund the proposal. This sounds to me like a palm off. My understanding was that each state was responsible for its own implementation of health services for their state. Certain funding did certainly come from federal coffers but the Federal Government did not direct state health policy (although it did provide minimum guidelines on acceptable practice) and that states were free to decide for themselves how their funds would be spent. Given this I would therefore understand that at state level decisions to implement alterate programs of childbirth services could occur. Therefore there would be no necessity to wait for federal approval of such a system it would merely mean reallocating funds from some "main stream" childbirth services to the new proposed services. This has already been done in some instances for example the Matar Hospital's community midwifery service - so why can't it be done on a state level. In addition the State Health Departments could certainly start approving for private midwives to be able to offer in hospital services the same way that private obstetricians can within the public hospitals and this may then cause an overflow to the private hospitals offering similar access. The State Governement could even legislate to make it illegal for the private hospitals to discriminate on practitioner access if a private qualified midwife who is registered with whate! ! ver the Midwivery board is applies to have clients at their hospitals. Mr Beatties answer seemed very weak and dismissive to me but I may have my facts wrong on how the state health system works so could anyone enlighten me (and others) as to whether my perception is correct or incorrect as this makes a big difference to the approach to getting NMAP implemented from a consumer advocate point of view. Thanks DebbyTired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Yes, women, whatever we call ourselves, are truly awesome! Heck, we can bring forth life! As for god creating woman out of man's rib -- who are they trying to kid? The bible was written to teach people how to be decent human beings; it was never meant to be taken literally. The first words, in Hebrew (transliterated), B'reshith bara elohim, mean In the beginning were those most high. Plural, genderless. God, masculine singular, came much later. I've spent a lot of time in the Sinai and Negev deserts. Forty days and forty nights alone there would drive anybody nuts. In utter irreverence, Aviva - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies! Hmmman afterthought - that is good - after the first thought and looking at what happened,further thought went into woman and just look what happened!! (Women are pretty awsome, you have to admit!) --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together Dankjewel Aviva Veel groetjes ginder Lieve On 02-12-2002 14:37, Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lieve Lieve, Wij staan allemaal te samen met jullie. Veel sterkte aan jullie. Veel liefs, Aviva - Original Message - From: Lieve Huybrechts mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together Hoi Mary and others of the list, That's a thing that is of our concern. We don't know how long the baby has to live, nobody can forsay that and the parents are also worried on how the baby is going to die. I am glad that you gave this information. Maybe in my messages it sounds if I have worked it all trough, but I am dreaming of it at night, and sometimes a lot of doubts are my share too. I try to listen to them and give my support. We also find a lot of friendship and support in our birthcentre, especially in the postnatal talkgroup. It's amazing how the other mothers are acting towards the mother. It gives a very good feeling. On the operation it's not only the matter of survival but also the question on quality of life. They forsay that if the baby would survive surgery, he has to stay for at least 2 years in the hospital and will have a lot of operations during his life. I hope we can give the baby love and warmth and I hope that the parents will afterwards have a warm feeling about it, without doubts of having acted well. Warm greetings Lieve --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 26/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
oh, you ain't seen nothin' yet!
{{ :-) 8O==|
aviva
- Original Message -
From: Denise
Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bumper stickers for ladies!
Sounds like ahead of the fashion trends to
me!!Denise
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 /
Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Answer to Debby State/Fed Health Funding
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Answer to Debby State/Fed Health Funding Hello Debby and All Ah the state federal health divide! Yes you are right the comment that it is a federal issue is pathetic and weak, lacking vision and showing no interest in reducing the obscene waste in unnecessary obstetric care! So essentially how the states spend their money on health is up to them. The intervening factor has been the PI stuff, which is a federal matter! But if community midwifery is funded by the state then the state takes on the PI as they would all their employees working in health facilities across the state (vicarious liability). The Fed Gov can intervene and ear mark funding for a specific purpose through the Australian Health Care Agreements. This is essentially what happened under the Labor Fed Gov when the Alternate Birthing Services Program was established. The Fed Gov directed the states to set Alt Birthing programs. An interesting aside is that the ABSP required homebirth to be an option. In the ACT a community midwifery model was set up with experienced ACMI accredited midwives. The Obs came in with the 11th hour power play stating they would not treat homebirth transfers (as if they can but naturally they did). Our Chief Minister got scared and would not veto homebirth. The Fed Gov nearly pulled funding due to the program not allowing HB!! what a joke. The community program (Due to the skilled midwives, community setting etc) had stunning results, either doubly as better or half as bad as the Canberra Birth Centre. But yet again the medicos won out and at the end of the funding this NMAP style program was subsumed into the Birth Centre, and what we have today is a 49% transfer rate overall (70% primip). WHY, because our midwives arent allowed to do what they do best, they are forced to work within a medical model based on fear and control, with only a flagrant regard for evidence and an overall view (from the Mgmt) as women forming the numbers for teaching material in our tertiary hospital. When the head of OG is also the head of the clinical school what hope do you have!! So long story, but with the current conservative Fed Gov state lobbying certainly is certainly the ticket, and no do not take such a pathetic response from Beattie. Hey get a group together for the next community cabinet and blitz them!! In solidarity Justine Caines Just a query to anyone who has an intimate knowledge (or a geneneral one) on how the State health system works. Denise's friend stated that she was told by Mr Beattie that NMAP had been presented to the federal government and it was up to them to implement and fund the proposal. This sounds to me like a palm off. My understanding was that each state was responsible for its own implementation of health services for their state. Certain funding did certainly come from federal coffers but the Federal Government did not direct state health policy (although it did provide minimum guidelines on acceptable practice) and that states were free to decide for themselves how their funds would be spent. Given this I would therefore understand that at state level decisions to implement alterate programs of childbirth services could occur. Therefore there would be no necessity to wait for federal approval of such a system it would merely mean reallocating funds from some main stream childbirth services to the new proposed services. This has already been done in some instances for example the Matar Hospital's community midwifery service - so why can't it be done on a state level. In addition the State Health Departments could certainly start approving for private midwives to be able to offer in hospital services the same way that private obstetricians can within the public hospitals and this may then cause an overflow to the private hospitals offering similar access. The State Governement could even legislate to make it illegal for the private hospitals to discriminate on practitioner access if a private qualified midwife who is registered with whate! ! ver the Midwivery board is applies to have clients at their hospitals. Mr Beatties answer seemed very weak and dismissive to me but I may have my facts wrong on how the state health system works so could anyone enlighten me (and others) as to whether my perception is correct or incorrect as this makes a big difference to the approach to getting NMAP implemented from a consumer advocate point of view. Thanks Debby Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection http://g.msn.com/8HMSEN/2017 with MSN 8. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] pregnancy mag
Ok you ladies got me thinking with this discussion about the rather lame way magazines seem to treat childbirth. I have emailed a number of the major magazines with a request for an article in order to provide me with information - the dumb consumer approach. (Ok so it is a little white lie.) Below is a copy of the email I sent and a list of the magazines and how you can also contact them with similar requests for articles on natural birth, caesarean risks and NMAP. If they are bombarded with requests for these types of articles then just maybe one of them may take the bait and provide some honest and useful info to Australian women. Debby New Idea [EMAIL PROTECTED] Womens Weekly[EMAIL PROTECTED] Womens Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Medicine http://goodmedicine.ninemsn.com.au/goodmedicine/feedback/magazinefeedback.asp New Woman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mother and Baby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Pregnancy and Birth Magazine) "Dear XXX, Some time ago I saw an article on the evening news about the national maternity action plan. It was a rally that was apparently held in each of the major cities and the spokeswoman for it here in Brisbane said that they were trying to get better maternity services for women in Australia. I have not been able to find any other information about it and I know from the insurance problem and what has been reported on TV that there is supposed to be a crisis with obstetricians leaving. I am interested because until my last baby I did not know there was a choice of different ways to deliver your baby except by an obstetrician. A friend told me about birth centre midwives in the public hospitals and that is where my last child was born. What other options are these people proposing? Could you please do a story on what this action plan is about, do any other countries have it and how would it improve our maternity services. Thanks Deborah Miller" Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] NMAP Article Request Responses
Just for info here are the responses I got. From: Margaret Rafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Request for an article to be done Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:09:14 +1100 Dear Debby Thanks for your email. We do regular stories on the different kinds of maternity services available to women in Australia. However, we're not planning do anything on the national maternity action plan at the moment. In the meantime, Mother Baby magazine is published every second month the next issue will be on sale on December 18 and this can be used as a general guide to help women understand what their options are for care during pregnancy and birth. Kind regards Margaret Margaret Rafferty Managing Editor Mother Baby, Pregnancy Birth, The Babycare Book, The Pregnancy Book Tel: (02) 9581 9496. -- From: Mary Kiley Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2002 2:58 PM To: Margaret Rafferty Subject: FW: Request for an article to be done [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: Debby M Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 2002 1:56 PM To: Mary Kiley Subject: Request for an article to be done Hi Mary, I am a new mum but am hoping you may be able to do an article for me (and probably lots of others). I have also sent this request to the editor of New Woman but didn't realise your magazines were done by the same group so it is probably more appropriate for it to be done in a pregnancy or parenting magazine if you are able. Some time ago I saw an article on the evening news about the national maternity action plan. It was a rally that was apparently held in each of the major cities and the spokeswoman for it here in Brisbane said that they were trying to get better maternity services for women in Australia. I have not been able to find any other information about it and I know from the insurance problem and what has been reported on TV that there is supposed to be a crisis with obstetricians leaving. I am interested because until my last baby I did not know there was a choice of different ways to deliver your baby except by an obstetrician. A friend told me about birth centre midwives in the public hospitals and that is where my last child was born. What other options are these people proposing? Could you please do a story on what this action plan is about, do any other countries have it and how would it improve our maternity services. I really appreciate your help with this and hope the information is available before I am pregnant with my next child. Thanks Deborah Miller _ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. Emap Australia www.emap.com.au _ The information in this email is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient of this message any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. Emap Holding P/L and or its subsidiaries do not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or other defects and accept no liability for any losses resulting from infected email transmissions. Please note that any views expressed in this email may be those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect those of this organisation. _ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
This makes me think back to a recent posting of the family whose first baby was born still at home and the baby had a lotus birth. Where the placenta was left attached to baby, and in this case forever. I see this as a wonderful gift to a child and perhaps the family you are with may consider this as an option. Love to the family and yourself Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lieve Huybrechts Sent: Monday, 2 December 2002 8:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together Dear friends, Thanks for your advices and sharing. The baby is inoperable. The left side of the heart is not there, the aorta is hihgly underdeveloped, so as soon as the ductus of botalli closes the baby will go into a coma. Only a transplantation could help and that's impossible, they only do it on older children. We have pretty good heartsurgeons in Belgium, lets say that they are much better in pathology, but forgot a lot about fysiology :-)) I already suggested the mother to write things down. She has a very good contact with the baby, she can exactly tell how he is laying in her womb. We listen to the heartbeat together and she can talk about it. We plan to make foto's at birth and after. The mothers chooses a homebirth at this moment. It was her decision already for a healthy child and now she wants to be sure that there are no interventions to 'save' the baby. In the university hospital they sayd that if she gives birth there, for sure the baby will get an operation, even when there is no hope for him. It will be a child of the science. In the nearby hospital, the gyn is very supportive to her, but in a hospital so many peaple are involved and she will never know what midwife will be with her, what gyn, or what pediatrician. Even when she gets all what she wants, you can never predict that it is not a very busy day with a lot of births and that she can't stay in peace with her baby and her husband. I indeed feel it as a great honor and privilige to be with them and I also see birth and death as 'gateway' experiences. Maybe the baby just needs to be live in the womb and be born to become complete. Thanks for your support and I will let you know what happens. Warm greetings Lieve -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Answer to Debby State/Fed Health Funding
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Answer to Debby State/Fed Health Funding Along the line of this subject, today I had a phone conversation with a staffer from Dept Human Services in SA, about midwifery of course. I had sent a letter having a go at them for lack of consumer input, in particular regards to a project to be set up using Alternative Birthing Services Unit money. Eventually we got on to NMAP and she felt that it would be a very long time before this type of care was mainstream because, A: its too expensive to run and B: there isn't the midwives to run it. I asked if the cost took into account that this type of care had less intervention, less hospital care, less postnatal depression and the ongoing costs etc. Reply was yes but, then went on to tell me how expensive it is to run the comm midwifery in SA nthn suburbs as the women who use the programme have special needs, low income, aboriginal, etc. I pointed out that this would not be the case for everyone if NMAP was available for all to access. What else can we say in response to this type of comments. She says she has read the document inside out, blah, blah, blah. What about not having enough midwives, what is the response to that. I said that there wasn't enough anyway, so whats the difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated, Megan. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Justine CainesSent: Tuesday, 3 December 2002 1:14To: OzMid ListSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Answer to Debby State/Fed Health Funding Hello Debby and AllAh the state federal health divide! Yes you are right the comment that it is a federal issue is pathetic and weak, lacking vision and showing no interest in reducing the obscene waste in unnecessary obstetric care! So essentially how the states spend their money on health is up to them. The intervening factor has been the PI stuff, which is a federal matter! But if community midwifery is funded by the state then the state takes on the PI as they would all their employees working in health facilities across the state (vicarious liability).The Fed Gov can intervene and ear mark funding for a specific purpose through the Australian Health Care Agreements. This is essentially what happened under the Labor Fed Gov when the Alternate Birthing Services Program was established. The Fed Gov directed the states to set Alt Birthing programs. An interesting aside is that the ABSP required homebirth to be an option. In the ACT a community midwifery model was set up with experienced ACMI accredited midwives. The Obs came in with the 11th hour power play stating they would not treat homebirth transfers (as if they can but naturally they did). Our Chief Minister got scared and would not veto homebirth. The Fed Gov nearly pulled funding due to the program not allowing HB!! what a joke.The community program (Due to the skilled midwives, community setting etc) had stunning results, either doubly as better or half as bad as the Canberra Birth Centre. But yet again the medicos won out and at the end of the funding this NMAP style program was subsumed into the Birth Centre, and what we have today is a 49% transfer rate overall (70% primip). WHY, because our midwives arent allowed to do what they do best, they are forced to work within a medical model based on fear and control, with only a flagrant regard for evidence and an overall view (from the Mgmt) as women forming the numbers for teaching material in our tertiary hospital. When the head of OG is also the head of the clinical school what hope do you have!!So long story, but with the current conservative Fed Gov state lobbying certainly is certainly the ticket, and no do not take such a pathetic response from Beattie. Hey get a group together for the next community cabinet and blitz them!!In solidarityJustine Caines
[ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while
Title: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Hi, all. Well, it's been really interesting and informative being on the Ozmid list...but I must sign off for a while. My family need me, and I get sidetracked keeping up with the Ozmid emails...'cos I love reading them! THank you for sharing your insights and experiences with me...and also your info for specific requests I have made. Feel free to email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] And feel free to recommend to any women in the Sunshine Coast/Brisbane/Gold Coast area whom you think could benefit from attending a Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth meeting. Thanks, Melissa Newsflash : we are starting a Healing From a Difficult Birth group - first meeting Dec 10. SO now there are two Birthtalk groups : Birthtalk Forum : for pregnant women, and any woman passionate about Birth, this is a forum designed to empower women as they journey towards birthing their baby. Talk to women who have already birthed babies and learn from each women's experience. Each month presents a different Topic to be discussed , however, individual concerns and questions are always welcome. Healing From a Difficult Birth Support Group : for women to debrief share their past birth experiences in a safe environment. Talk to other mothers also healing from disappointing, difficult or traumatic births and share ideas to support each other. This group may be of benefit to women recovering from a Caesarean birth or a traumatic vaginal delivery. birthtalk Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth birthtalk aims to: - provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth - to empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about birth and birthing options - provide a support network for women who are healing from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a disappointing, difficult or traumatic previous birth - to encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ph : Melissa on 3356 7449 Deb on 3379 7424 KAren on 3720 1101
Re: [ozmidwifery] NMAP Article Request Responses
very polite letter !! I am having a little chuckle here - I used to work with Mary Kiley - she is actually now working on the Slimming mag at emap -did you know she is a single childless young lass in her twenties with a wicked sense of humour and no intention of having babies in the near future!! I will add your request to the mag I am hoping to start soon - their budget permitting! Pinky - Original Message - From: Debby M To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:14 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] NMAP Article Request Responses Just for info here are the responses I got. From: Margaret Rafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Request for an article to be done Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:09:14 +1100 Dear Debby Thanks for your email. We do regular stories on the different kinds of maternity services available to women in Australia. However, we're not planning do anything on the national maternity action plan at the moment. In the meantime, Mother Baby magazine is published every second month the next issue will be on sale on December 18 and this can be used as a general guide to help women understand what their options are for care during pregnancy and birth. Kind regards Margaret Margaret Rafferty Managing Editor Mother Baby, Pregnancy Birth, The Babycare Book, The Pregnancy Book Tel: (02) 9581 9496. -- From: Mary Kiley Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2002 2:58 PM To: Margaret Rafferty Subject: FW: Request for an article to be done [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: Debby M Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 2002 1:56 PM To: Mary Kiley Subject: Request for an article to be done Hi Mary, I am a new mum but am hoping you may be able to do an article for me (and probably lots of others). I have also sent this request to the editor of New Woman but didn't realise your magazines were done by the same group so it is probably more appropriate for it to be done in a pregnancy or parenting magazine if you are able. Some time ago I saw an article on the evening news about the national maternity action plan. It was a rally that was apparently held in each of the major cities and the spokeswoman for it here in Brisbane said that they were trying to get better maternity services for women in Australia. I have not been able to find any other information about it and I know from the insurance problem and what has been reported on TV that there is supposed to be a crisis with obstetricians leaving. I am interested because until my last baby I did not know there was a choice of different ways to deliver your baby except by an obstetrician. A friend told me about birth centre midwives in the public hospitals and that is where my last child was born. What other options are these people proposing? Could you please do a story on what this action plan is about, do any other countries have it and how would it improve our maternity services. I really appreciate your help with this and hope the information is available before I am pregnant with my next child. Thanks Deborah Miller _ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. Emap Australia www.emap.com.au _ The information in this email is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient of this message any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. Emap Holding P/L and or its subsidiaries do not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or other defects and accept no liability for any losses resulting from infected email transmissions. Please note that any views expressed in this email may be those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect those of this organisation. _ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'',Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [ozmidwifery] Looking for Sarah
Thanks Jane -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jane Palmer Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Looking for Sarah Hi I think Sarah changed her email recently - I have her listed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Sarah is a GP who has had 4 homebirths and writes wonderful articles, she has written quite a lot about Lotus Birth. Good Luck [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Julie GarrattSent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:25 PMTo: ozmidSubject: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'', Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while
Title: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while hey, Melissa, I'll miss you! Feel free to contact me off the list if you like. Have a great break and enjoy it all. Aviva [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Hi, all. Well, it's been really interesting and informative being on the Ozmid list...but I must sign off for a while. My family need me, and I get sidetracked keeping up with the Ozmid emails...'cos I love reading them! THank you for sharing your insights and experiences with me...and also your info for specific requests I have made. Feel free to email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
[ozmidwifery] Community Cabinet -QLD
Debby, Qld is very proficient in cost shifting - State to Federal. Qld has suffered from its low tax state since GST came in. Tax credits went more to other states when the GST came in because they had to remove some of their taxes thereby loosing some income which the Fed compensated them with. 'Cos Qld didn't have many taxes equates to minimal increase in Federal revenue over several years but we can build great football stadiums when we are broke! State funds are then divided up, unfortunately health has not featured very much in recent state budgets, most have gone into family and education initiatives i.e. new programmes. The reduction in the number of Drs bulk billing has had an impact on our antenatal clinic numbers. Ladies are electing to come to hospital ANC rather than share caring with the GP paying a $15-20 gap. Handy for us midwives in the ANC to develop a positive relationship with birthing women and their family an enhance midwifery knowledge. In Qld Health, funds areallocated into each health district then it is up to the district manager how the funds are utilised- the health district budget. They look at all sources of funding to fund many programmes. One example is the Federal health initiative on diabetes and asthma. Immunisation incentives i.e. money are given to GP's if a child is fully immunised. This is one of my pet hates- drug company bribes. Private midwives need Medicare provider numbers in order to have admitting rights due to the DRG costings of the Federal health system. Gets too complicated after that to explain. Nursing/midwifery staff costs are a large part of any budget and also the one that gets cut the most - why one may ask- because we take it!! When will nurses and midwives stand up for themselves and ultimately for their clients. It is us who has to face the QNC when complaints or allegations are made. If we have insufficient staff in Birth Suite how many midwives would complain and follow up with an incident report. I do and now I am classed as been 'difficult' because nobody else complains. Why can't we be nice to each other. My role as a health district consultative forum Union rep is one that questions these budgets, workloads and other member related issues. I am an activist not a couch potato waiting for action from others to do things and often these people are the first to whinge when they are affected. As for community cabinets, this is an initiative of Peter Beattie's cabinet. A location is decided, usually in response to interested members of the communitysimply writing to the Premiers dept to be considered . I think it is held each 3 months and all ministers and usually the various Directors- General attend. Any member of the public can request an 'audience' usually 10 - 20 minutes. People can present their views or requests, notes are taken by staffers and feedback is usually made within the month. Very effective lobbying forum. You sit across the table and push your issue. In the ALP we also have community forums such as the one Sandra (Mareeba) mentioned. Change occurs because members raise issues and seek change. NMAP is slowly gathering momentum in the ALP and even in my faction ( yes we do need this forum as well) people even searched me out, knowing I was a midwife, to ask me about 'this stink about maternity services' they had heard about. NMAP is great and in this ALP forumI am able to state my personal views as a midwife (not restricted by my membership to a midwifery organization). They leave enlightened and ready to pass ontheir view to others. Sorry its such a lengthy response but health care is not an easy system to explain. Cheers Barb
Re: [ozmidwifery] pregnancy mag
Oh, well done, Debby! From the other end, maybe it would be "timely" (ahem) if I happen to send them an article in a week or two?! Pinky? Imagine, "Oh, look, we've all these requests, now this woman just happens to have sent in an article...maybe we'll publish it". What do you all think? Grinning, Aviva-the-opportunity-seeker - Original Message - From: Debby M To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] pregnancy mag Ok you ladies got me thinking with this discussion about the rather lame way magazines seem to treat childbirth. I have emailed a number of the major magazines with a request for an article in order to provide me with information - the dumb consumer approach. (Ok so it is a little white lie.) Below is a copy of the email I sent and a list of the magazines and how you can also contact them with similar requests for articles on natural birth, caesarean risks and NMAP. If they are bombarded with requests for these types of articles then just maybe one of them may take the bait and provide some honest and useful info to Australian women. Debby --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
