[ozmidwifery] birthing a still baby
I am wondering if anyone knows of some text, essay, or writing of some sort by women (or a woman) who has birthed a live baby and a still baby and then written about the differences. I know that sounds weird; but I was talking to someone who said she had heard from a woman who had experienced this scenario and the woman had said there was a difference between the two birth experiences other than one baby had died. I just dont feel right in approaching this person for confidentiality issues. The context of the conversation was about how the child is an active participant in the birth process and birthing a still baby would be different to birthing a live one. Knowing how traumatic and/or personal this is, I would not like to ask if anyone knows someone who has been there and done this- rather just ask if anyone has read anything before? Am I making sense??? I have run out of coffee Cheers Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004
RE: [ozmidwifery] niphedipine
There are two forms of nifedipine - one sub-lingual and the other 20mg for oral ingestion. We use the 20mg oral ingestion every 20 minutes by 5 doses only. but I do know some places use the S/l dose but only 10mg. One brand was the green gel capsule that one could aspirate the solution and pop under the tongue - I haven't seen that for some time. If using please warn the women the side effects which can be very uncomfortable - flushing, heat, headache and sweats are the ones that first come to mind. A very potent vasodilating agent that lowers end diastolic pressures quickly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ID AC Quanchi Sent: Sunday, 21 November 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] niphedipine we often have cause to use niphedipine for prem labour while awaiting transfer to a tertiary centre and usually do so under advice from the obstetric people at the receiving hospital which will be either RWH, Monash or Mercy ( in Victoria). They usually ask that the women chew the first dose to break open the enteric cover on the medication and allow it to be absorbed quicker. (Because of the enteric coating even putting it under the tongue is low if you dont crush it first) A second dose can be swallowed at the same time which will be absorbed more slowly as the coating disolves in the GI tract. The subsequent doses are then swallowed. If time is not important then swallowing all doses will be OK but I figure that when a woman is suspected to be contracting then the aim is to stop it asap and time from ingestion to absorption needs to be hastened for the first dose. Hope this helps but pharmacy at the big centres is always ready to help if you want to call them Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] was gestational diabetes now Practising Midwife
Hi Marilyn, I should have this article - will check in the office tomorrow and post a copy to you. Cheers Andrea At 01:25 AM 21/11/2004, you wrote: Great study but not looking at what I am trying to find some research for. Does anyone have a copy of this article in The Practising Midwife 2001: Antenatal expression of colostrum. Pract Midwife. 2001 Apr;4(4):32-5. Review. No abstract available. PMID: 12026613 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] - I would send a stamped self addressed envelope for a copy. thanks marilyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Original Message - From: mh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm They're not assigned to BF or AF. Just that if they're BF an d for some reason change their mind at any time during the (I think) 1st year, or use a comp etc, they use the one supplied which is unidentified (I think). You can look it up if you google TRiGR. I heard an inservice on it which didn't sound at all unethical. They are trying to promote BF but the fact of the metter is that in the real world the majority of mothers do comp with something at least once during their breastfeeding experience and many do wean to a bottle and formula. It is these they are trying to catch. Monica - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Unfortunately, they seem to be signing people up before they have their babies, to be in a RCT between cow's milk and non-cow's milk based formulas. A bit dodgy ethically to me! Does anyone else know more about this? Nicole C - Original Message - From: Sandra J. Eales [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Marilyn There might not be much on expressing antenatally, but there is quite a bit of research on the increased risk of children developing type1 diabetes if they are exposed to cow's milk. In fact I heard just the other night on the news that there is a multi centre study going on - they were trying to recruit pregnant women or babies where one parent was diabetic.. hoping to follow 6000 kids. I don't recall the details of where it was being done though. Sandra - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Way to go Denise, I totally agree. However, am part of a working group for BFHI reaccreditation and was asked to find the evidence. So, I was just wondering if there was some that I had missed. marilyn - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Hi Marilyn I won't swear to it but I don't know that there is any research out there on this practice. However to give newborns their own mother's milk is kinda natural and not really something that we need research to prove is a good thing do we? Wouldn't it be more to the point to ask those who are giving newborns something other than breastmilk to come up with the evidence to prove that what they are doing is not detrimental?? I'd like to see that ... could have them running around in circles for years trying to find anything to support that practice as opposed to giving mother's own colostrum. All you really need proof of is that expressing antenatally won't put a mother into preterm labor, which it won't and I'm sure you'll find plenty out there on that - then ensure that the mothers know how to store and transport their milk safely when the time comes. There's lots more than just giving breastmilk though that can stabilise the newborn's glucose levels quickly and efficiently - starting with undisturbed skin-to-skin on mother's chest from the moment of birthing. I really do implore everyone to think long and hard before scampering around trying to find research articles to prove what is normal and natural while practices using what is detrimental to birthing/breastfeeding/whatever continue without questioning. Please consider looking the perpetrators in the eye and saying First, do no harm! - your practice is not 'normal' - prove to me that it is doing no harm!! Cheers Denise *** Denise Fisher Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE
Re: [ozmidwifery] niphedipine
Apparently sub-lingual and gelcap Nifedipine was taken off the market a few years ago. Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACM ProMid Professional Midwifery Education Service 0419 528 717 - Original Message - From: B G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] niphedipine There are two forms of nifedipine - one sub-lingual and the other 20mg for oral ingestion. We use the 20mg oral ingestion every 20 minutes by 5 doses only. but I do know some places use the S/l dose but only 10mg. One brand was the green gel capsule that one could aspirate the solution and pop under the tongue - I haven't seen that for some time. If using please warn the women the side effects which can be very uncomfortable - flushing, heat, headache and sweats are the ones that first come to mind. A very potent vasodilating agent that lowers end diastolic pressures quickly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ID AC Quanchi Sent: Sunday, 21 November 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] niphedipine we often have cause to use niphedipine for prem labour while awaiting transfer to a tertiary centre and usually do so under advice from the obstetric people at the receiving hospital which will be either RWH, Monash or Mercy ( in Victoria). They usually ask that the women chew the first dose to break open the enteric cover on the medication and allow it to be absorbed quicker. (Because of the enteric coating even putting it under the tongue is low if you dont crush it first) A second dose can be swallowed at the same time which will be absorbed more slowly as the coating disolves in the GI tract. The subsequent doses are then swallowed. If time is not important then swallowing all doses will be OK but I figure that when a woman is suspected to be contracting then the aim is to stop it asap and time from ingestion to absorption needs to be hastened for the first dose. Hope this helps but pharmacy at the big centres is always ready to help if you want to call them Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing a still baby
Hello Jo Women often say a dead baby feels cold inside of them. There are a few texts on women's experience of stillbirth. Jane Warland's The Midwife the Bereaved Family is very good.Like all births each one is different, live or still. A woman's first birth is different to her second which is different to her third...and so on. Each birthing experience is unique and while there are principles that govern midwifery care in the instance of stillbirth, we have to approach each couple as unique each time. As well as experiencing birth, there is death to deal with. Physically birthing a dead baby is little different than a live baby. The baby undergoes the usual mechanisms in order to negotiate the birth canal. Depending on how long the baby has been dead, a dead baby is softer and more easily mouldable than a live baby therefore women rarely tear or require episiotomy. Also we need to be very gentle and careful handling a stillborn baby as the skin and underlying tissues may be very soft and fragile, macerated is the medical term. Hope this helps Jenny Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMProMid Professional Midwifery Education Service0419 528 717 - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:08 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] birthing a still baby I am wondering if anyone knows of some text, essay, or writing of some sort by women (or a woman) who has birthed a live baby and a still baby and then written about the differences. I know that sounds weird; but I was talking to someone who said she had heard from a woman who had experienced this scenario and the woman had said there was a difference between the two birth experiences other than one baby had died. I just dont feel right in approaching this person for confidentiality issues. The context of the conversation was about how the child is an active participant in the birth process and birthing a still baby would be different to birthing a live one. Knowing how traumatic and/or personal this is, I would not like to ask if anyone knows someone who has been there and done this- rather just ask if anyone has read anything before? Am I making sense??? I have run out of coffee Cheers Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004
Re: [ozmidwifery] nifedipine
All tertiary centres seem to have their own protocols for Nifedipine in prem. labour, but thanks for the new perspective, i.e. crushing the 1st dose - sounds perfectly sensible, eh! I gasped at first at the thought of crushing anything entericly coated. Our tertiary centre wouldn't hear of it though - it's 20mg 1/2 hrly x max. 3 doses ( if contractions don't cease sooner), followed by 20mg q6h maintainance till maximum steroid loading achieved - paeds. like 48hrs after 1st dose of steroids before bub delivers. Cheers, Gaye.
Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm
Hi, Have you checked the Australian Breastfeeding Association's Lactation Resource centre? Their number is (03) 9885 0855. Also, write up your case studies and send them to the LRC. They have guidelines available. This is helpful to those who come after you. Warm Regards, Barb - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Thanks Sandra. I am surprised that there is no research on this as I have heard it recommended for years and have done so (recommended) myself. However, since it actually was a practice in the 50's and 60's and possibly the 70's as preparation of the breasts for breastfeeding along with nipple massage etc.. there actually seems to be a wealth of articles descrying (sp.) the idea. Just goes to prove it all keeps going around. Of course this isn't antenatal expressing for GDM mum's just antenatal expressing in general. You'd all be suprised at what does come up for antenatal expression but I actually wont go there... check it out yourself!! marilyn - Original Message - From: Sandra J. Eales [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Marilyn There might not be much on expressing antenatally, but there is quite a bit of research on the increased risk of children developing type1 diabetes if they are exposed to cow's milk. In fact I heard just the other night on the news that there is a multi centre study going on - they were trying to recruit pregnant women or babies where one parent was diabetic.. hoping to follow 6000 kids. I don't recall the details of where it was being done though. Sandra - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Way to go Denise, I totally agree. However, am part of a working group for BFHI reaccreditation and was asked to find the evidence. So, I was just wondering if there was some that I had missed. marilyn - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] gestational diabetes and antenatal ebm Hi Marilyn I won't swear to it but I don't know that there is any research out there on this practice. However to give newborns their own mother's milk is kinda natural and not really something that we need research to prove is a good thing do we? Wouldn't it be more to the point to ask those who are giving newborns something other than breastmilk to come up with the evidence to prove that what they are doing is not detrimental?? I'd like to see that ... could have them running around in circles for years trying to find anything to support that practice as opposed to giving mother's own colostrum. All you really need proof of is that expressing antenatally won't put a mother into preterm labor, which it won't and I'm sure you'll find plenty out there on that - then ensure that the mothers know how to store and transport their milk safely when the time comes. There's lots more than just giving breastmilk though that can stabilise the newborn's glucose levels quickly and efficiently - starting with undisturbed skin-to-skin on mother's chest from the moment of birthing. I really do implore everyone to think long and hard before scampering around trying to find research articles to prove what is normal and natural while practices using what is detrimental to birthing/breastfeeding/whatever continue without questioning. Please consider looking the perpetrators in the eye and saying First, do no harm! - your practice is not 'normal' - prove to me that it is doing no harm!! Cheers Denise *** Denise Fisher Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
Hi, can anyone help me in locating info about the dangers of gentian violet? It was my understanding that in Oz we stopped recommending it quite some time ago because of some dangers?? My sister in America has been told to use it on her 4 week old daughter for thrush. Any info, especially online that I can access and email straight to her would be great. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have other ideas about the benefits etc. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] terbutaline
Where does terbutaline fit in with all this? I have heard of them using it at RWH, but haven't seen it at my workplace. Nicole C Nicole, I am at home and so do not have access to a MIMS but I am sure you can check with your pharmacist but zisnt Terbutaline an asthma medication? Therefore its action may be similar to ventolin which we used for this purpose for years. All of these treatments are aiming for relaxation of smooth muscle and are not selective which smooth muscle they act on once they are in the blood stream hence the side effects you get to achieve the desired result on the muscle you want. To get enough ventolin to the bronchial tree in a severe asthma attack requires so much via neb ( or IV) that the person shakes viloently as all their smooth muscle is affected. Same in our situation we five the nifedipine or whatever until the smooth muscle of the uterus relaxes and hopefully gives up contracting but the woman will experience the effects of that much nifedipine on all her smooth muscles and needs to be supported ( and observed closely) until the effects subside Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
Hi Abby, Yes, it is very difficult to obtain in Australia. There was a study that showed it caused cancer in rats/mice but this was in very large doses - far more than a baby would receive. Sorry, I don't have the reference for the actual study. It is still recommended by Dr Jack Newman, a VERY breastfeeding friendly paediatrician in Canada. His information is freely available on the web -www.erols.com/cindyrn/6htm Hopefully, this address is still current, if not, do a search for Dr Jack Newman articles. Hope this is of some help Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLC BRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet? Hi, can anyone help me in locating info about the dangers of gentian violet? It was my understanding that in Oz we stopped recommending it quite some time ago because of some dangers?? My sister in America has been told to use it on her 4 week old daughter for thrush. Any info, especially online that I can access and email straight to her would be great. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have other ideas about the benefits etc. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
Gentian violet is very effective at treating thrush, particularly nipple thrush. I tend to use Daktarin gel for the baby. The concerns about carcinogenic effects of gentian violet have been deemed to be over reactive by many, and so some people prescribe gentian violet for mother and baby. If your sister is breastfeeding she needs to treat her nipples too, even if asymptomatic. Thomas Hale has a book, I think it is called medications and mothers milk or something like that(!) It is used by many lactation consultants, but it is difficult to purchase. Some people buy it from their vet! However, you have to be careful to get the correct strength. A lactation consultant can help with this. Nicole C - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet? Hi, can anyone help me in locating info about the dangers of gentian violet? It was my understanding that in Oz we stopped recommending it quite some time ago because of some dangers?? My sister in America has been told to use it on her 4 week old daughter for thrush. Any info, especially online that I can access and email straight to her would be great. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have other ideas about the benefits etc. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
also be careful to use AQUEOUS gentian violet - if it has spirit in, it will burn Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet? Gentian violet is very effective at treating thrush, particularly nipple thrush. I tend to use Daktarin gel for the baby. The concerns about carcinogenic effects of gentian violet have been deemed to be over reactive by many, and so some people prescribe gentian violet for mother and baby. If your sister is breastfeeding she needs to treat her nipples too, even if asymptomatic. Thomas Hale has a book, I think it is called medications and mothers milk or something like that(!) It is used by many lactation consultants, but it is difficult to purchase. Some people buy it from their vet! However, you have to be careful to get the correct strength. A lactation consultant can help with this. Nicole C - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet? Hi, can anyone help me in locating info about the dangers of gentian violet? It was my understanding that in Oz we stopped recommending it quite some time ago because of some dangers?? My sister in America has been told to use it on her 4 week old daughter for thrush. Any info, especially online that I can access and email straight to her would be great. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have other ideas about the benefits etc. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
A lactation consultant can help with this. Nicole C Thanks Joy, Nicole and Pinky. I'll pass on the info to my sister. All the info I found on the internet was people recommending it's good to know that it is safe. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Birth Matters SA
Quick reminder to all on list who are interested and in SA that Birth Matters SA are having our coffee evening this week, Thursday 25th November, 7.30-9.30pm at the Eastwood Community centre in the back room. All welcome! Tania
