RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this. If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses. If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RN’s as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this. I don’t intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here. Rgds Mike On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question. As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described! My original response stemmed from the fact that I became a nurse ONLY to become a midwife (as there was no other way at the time), but found that, I was unable to get any exposure to such, as training nurses and RN's are generally unwelcome in maternity. I would have given anything to have the opportunity to work and 'help out' in maternity whilst waiting to secure a student midwife place. Instead I went straight
Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
I however have found that many midwives who have worked as an RN prior to being a midwife often see women as sick and need saving and intervention to birth their babies. I have found that most who go straight from their bachelor of nursing into midwifery without a year of two of nursing are more women centred. Just a generalisation of course. Sonja - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here. Rgds Mike On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question. As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described! My original response stemmed from the fact that I became a nurse ONLY to become a midwife (as there was no other way at the time), but found that, I was unable to get any exposure to such, as training nurses and RN's are generally unwelcome in maternity. I would have given anything to have the opportunity to work and 'help out' in maternity whilst waiting to secure a student midwife place. Instead I went straight into Mental
Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
I however have found that many midwives who have worked as an RN prior to being a midwife often see women as sick and need saving and intervention to birth their babies. I have found that most who go straight from their bachelor of nursing into midwifery without a year of two of nursing are more women centred. Just a generalisation of course. Sonja - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here. Rgds Mike On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question. As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described! My original response stemmed from the fact that I became a nurse ONLY to become a midwife (as there was no other way at the time), but found that, I was unable to get any exposure to such, as training nurses and RN's are generally unwelcome in maternity. I would have given anything to have the opportunity to work and 'help out' in maternity whilst waiting to secure a student midwife place. Instead I went straight into Mental
RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
Hi Chrisine, Im with you on this one completely, but I wonder if some of the confusion and difficulty in defining things is because there is also a Post-grad Bachelor of Midwifery here in Adelaide? Essentially you are either an undergrad doing the three year full time BMid, or a post-grad, already an RN as you and I were, doing the one year full time BMid. I think if we can get the powers to be to realize that Nursing is Nursing, and Midwifery is Midwifery, and demand that to become a Midwife, you become educated as a Midwife, all in the same way, then perhaps this blurry line in the middle will become a little less so and people will stop comparing the twojust my thoughts Tania (someone who WAS a Nurse, IS a Midwife, and who believes it would have been a more comprehensive and appropriate course if Id been able to do the 3 yr BMid) x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Christine Holliday Sent: Thursday, 5 October 2006 8:09 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this. If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses. If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RNs as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this. I dont intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland
Re: [ozmidwifery] DO SOMETHING!
I agree with the do something philosophy. The government in NZ didn't wake up one day and decide oh i think I will change the entire obstetric system. Midwives and women (and men ;) created the climate for change and the government eventually got the message. The midwives in this unit could: 1 Refuse to train/supervise RN's in this role unless they are completing a recognised mid program. Remembering that they not the hospital accepts responsibility for any role they delegate to an RN. 2 Refuse to do overtime/extra shifts 3 Contact nursing/midwifery/union organisations to support them 4 Use the networking resources of this group to provide support, evidence and submissions It would cost this hospital about $10,000 over and above wages to fully sponsor an RN to become a qualified midwife. When compared to recruitment costs this is very reasonable and the hospital gets a multiskilled professional as a bargain price. rgds mikeOn 10/2/06, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many of us seem to think that it is a retrograde step, but telling each other stories will not change things. What can we do to put forward our views to the government? I guess we could rely on "someone else" to "do something" but WE really need to write to our Federal Health Minister, our local fed Politician, go and see them, etc. If everyone on this list wrote to Minister Tony Abbott, he would have to be a little bit impressed and may actually get more info before continuing on his rigid way. LETS DO IT. MM From: owner- ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of brendamanning Sent: Monday, 2 October 2006 8:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step Going back to the maternity nurse or Gen/ Obstetric nurse workingin Midwifery ishow NZ worked in the 70's 80's. It was unsatisfactory then would be the same now, despite the fact the we did 6 months obsin our general training we weren't midwives it showed. I worked in mid whilst attending homebirths, worked in birth suite, postnatal, taught pre-natal classesspent 3 yearsin charge of SCN as a RGON in the early 80's when I went to train as a midwife justlike Di MI too found it a revelation. It's a retrograde step undermines all the recognition of your specialised professionyou Australian midwives have fought so hard for. It's just another path on: follow the American leader. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: D. Morgan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: I agree Michelle, I too worked in a rural area prior to completing my Mid many years ago and can still remember the revelations I felt while learning Midwifery.As anRN non Midwife, I was quite ignorant of what a true Midwife's role involved. It was scarey stuff. Cheers Di M -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
[ozmidwifery] article FYI
Stress During Pregnancy Linked to Smaller Babies WEDNESDAY, Sept. 27 (HealthDay News) -- Stressed-out pregnant women may carry smaller-than-average babies, a new study finds. In findings published in the September-October issue of Psychosomatic Medicine, researchers from the University of Miami School of Medicine studied 98 women who were 16 to 29 weeks pregnant. The women completed questionnaires that measured their levels of distress from daily hassles, depression and anxiety. The women also underwent ultrasounds to measure their fetuses, and they provided urine samples to measure levels of stress-linked hormones such as cortisol and norepinephrine. The researchers found that the fetuses of the mothers with higher rates of depression, anxiety and stress weighed less and were smaller than average. In addition, cortisol levels were linked to the weight of the fetus, indicating that cortisol may be a potential mechanism for transmitting a mother's stress to her unborn baby. One of the things this research highlights is that if you are pregnant and under extreme amounts of stress or feeling depressed, you should talk with your doctor about ways of treating these conditions during pregnancy, study author Miguel A. Diego said in a prepared statement. -- Krisha McCoy SOURCE: Health Behavior News Service, news release, Sept. 22, 2006 Copyright © 2006 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
Good point, I guess the problem is there is only one route to nursing but two to Mid at the moment. When we had a mix of hospital trained and Uni trained nurses the issues were the same. It took a long t6ime to accept Uni trained nurses which is ofcourse the norm now. Mid will be the same, eventually ;) On 10/5/06, Christine Holliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this. If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses. If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RN's as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this. I don't intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here. Rgds Mike On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question. As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described! My original response stemmed from the fact
RE: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Hi Leanne Thanks for your posting. These research findings sit very well with me. I'm not sure if you have heard of the author Ellen White, but she has written much on many subjects, and as a midwife I have been very interested in her comments on prenatal influences. She says that where possible mothers should try to have a pleasant disposition when pregnant as their temperament affects the personality of their unborn child. This makes a lot of sense from a 'scientific' point of view, but there was no research to date that I was aware of, and I was curious to know how this could be tested. I have been deliberating on plans to do research in the near future, and this has inspired me somewhat. Thank you. Kind regards, Angela -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of leanne wynne Sent: Thursday, 5 October 2006 9:07 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] article FYI Stress During Pregnancy Linked to Smaller Babies WEDNESDAY, Sept. 27 (HealthDay News) -- Stressed-out pregnant women may carry smaller-than-average babies, a new study finds. In findings published in the September-October issue of Psychosomatic Medicine, researchers from the University of Miami School of Medicine studied 98 women who were 16 to 29 weeks pregnant. The women completed questionnaires that measured their levels of distress from daily hassles, depression and anxiety. The women also underwent ultrasounds to measure their fetuses, and they provided urine samples to measure levels of stress-linked hormones such as cortisol and norepinephrine. The researchers found that the fetuses of the mothers with higher rates of depression, anxiety and stress weighed less and were smaller than average. In addition, cortisol levels were linked to the weight of the fetus, indicating that cortisol may be a potential mechanism for transmitting a mother's stress to her unborn baby. One of the things this research highlights is that if you are pregnant and under extreme amounts of stress or feeling depressed, you should talk with your doctor about ways of treating these conditions during pregnancy, study author Miguel A. Diego said in a prepared statement. -- Krisha McCoy SOURCE: Health Behavior News Service, news release, Sept. 22, 2006 Copyright (c) 2006 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
Iam a bachelor of midwifery graduate who has also done the rn degree as a top up as I also want to do other things but my focus is mainly midwifery and loving it. As far as I can see experience is what we gain when we work in our chosen field. knowledge we may learn but the real learning takes place in the field from the women in our care and our peers. Iam lucky to be employed in a hospital that takes great pride in assisting new graduates and supporting each other wether it be that you are out for a short time or for years. The respect for each other and our individual skills and life experiences is good to be a part of., Regards sharon From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: Thursday, 5 October 2006 8:46 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step Good point, I guess the problem is there is only one route to nursing but two to Mid at the moment. When we had a mix of hospital trained and Uni trained nurses the issues were the same. It took a long t6ime to accept Uni trained nurses which is ofcourse the norm now. Mid will be the same, eventually ;) On 10/5/06, Christine Holliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this. If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses. If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RN's as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this. I don't intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the
RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
Title: Message Sonja, I agree having preceptored a newly graduated RN who was accepted to do her midwifery without any post grad work as a nurse. After her initial culture shock of not being one to one in the post natal ward which they have had as student nurses.She had an extreme learning curve in time management and to gain skills as a midwife. She was probably the most intuitive midwife when she finished that I have had the pleasure of nurturing. Nurses cannot handle pain they have to manage pain nor are they able to simply sit beside a woman without having a reason. Thanks Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sonja BarrySent: Thursday, 5 October 2006 8:59 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I however have found that many midwives who have worked as an RN prior to being a midwife often see women as sick and need saving and intervention to birth their babies. I have found that most who go straight from their bachelor of nursing into midwifery without a year of two of nursing are more women centred. Just a generalisation of course. Sonja - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife
