RE: [ozmidwifery] Goodbye
I have been vocal on here of late havent I? I try to be quite but on this occasion I have a comment and a question or 2. I appreciate as a consumer that there are people prepared to say what may be perceived as challenging. I appreciate the struggle that it is to work with in a high risk environment. The challenge is what can we do with in our own environment to make the changes that women need? Is it to involve or start a local consumer group? Maybe, let them do battle for you because it is ultimately for themselves. It is always more powerful when families themselves say it. Midwives wont change the system alone and dont have to try too. I am sure you all recognize that. By giving the power to change it back to the women they are in fact able to become more empowered all round. My question is two fold. Does a woman have the right to refuse cord blood gases being tested? If the consequence of having cord blood gases done is that she woman and her baby get a lower level of care (midwife has to leave her), she cannot have cord left till pulsating ends possibly denying the baby life giving support, it is not evidenced based, etc. shouldnt she be explained these things at different times anti-natally and during birth (where possible) so that she can make an informed choice as to what she wants? I thinks so and in such a circumstance could you not use offered and refused by client as a very valid out with the pen pushers etc? I am really trying to think outside the square a little and think of ways this can be done that protects women and midwives. I may be nave about womens rights but I think we should have some say in these procedures. With respect, Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of carol Sent: Monday, 16 October 2006 2:48 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbye I agree with Felicity's comments Lisa please do not stop contributing to this list and sharing your valuable experience as even though I do not post often at all, I never miss reading everyone's posts and love learning from your valuable experience As you have stated Felicity, what is the point of everyone agreeing with everyone? Everyone's opinion is valuable and should be shared Carol. Stephen Felicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I love Lisa Barrett's contributions. I've NEVER found her rude (though often matter of fact, and her words are issued without watering down - which I personally appreciate); the reason I believe some may struggle to accept her contributions is because she's not focused on the needs or benefit of Midwives, Doulas, or other professionals, nor interested in talking in circles; she's focused squarely on the birthing women, every time, in every case. Let's remember that they're the ones who suffer when receiving care that is less than optimal (difficult though the Midwife's plight may be, it doesn't even compare to the struggle of the birthing women in our country)and let's applaud the efforts of experienced, passionate Midwives like Lisa who never lose sight of that, even at the cost of being attacked by her colleagues and being unpopular. Granted, we all do our bit in different ways; INCLUDING Lisa. I salute you, Lisa. Please don't stop contributing; your comments not only provide balance (what is the point of everyone agreeing with everyone when clearly there are many things VERY wrong with our system) but inspire me on a daily basis - inspire my renewed faith in Midwifery and in women. You talk a LOT of sense and it's refreshing. Thankyou. Sadie, I've enjoyed many of your comments as well. I'm sorry if you feel you want to leave. Goodbye, and best wishes for the future. On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make FREE PC-to-PC Calls
Re: [ozmidwifery] HBAW
Hi everyone can anyone tell me if there are any promotional materials availablee.g. posters, for National Home Birth Awareness week? cheers Natalie midwife, Margaret River ---Original Message--- From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Date: 08/24/06 21:55:47 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] HBAW Hi all, Just a reminder that Oct 25th 31st is National Homebirth Awareness Week, so if you are planning to do something in your local community it may be time to start organising! Regards Jo Hunter National Convenor HBA Coordinator HAS Innate Birth CBE and doula
Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases
Thanks everyone for your responses so far re cord blood gases. It will all be so helpful when we 'go into battle'. Shelly, you commented about letting the parents make the decision. This is one of our biggest areas of concern, as the medicos have made no mention of how informed consent will be obtained, and 'asking at the time', which was one response to this, is so very inappropriate. I truly despair at the interpretation of 'informed consent' that I regularly see at my place of work. Your references on this will be so useful. Naomi Naomi In England we have seen in increase in 'fear' of litigation. Obstetrics in this country has always taken a huge chunk of the litigation for most hospitals . We now have in our country CNST (clinical neglegence scheme for trusts). Trusts are what groups of health care organisations are called. CNST is an insurance that Trusts pay into so that litigation claims can be paid when won. The CNST set out standards for trusts and depending on how well you achieve the standards determines the insurance premiums, which you can imagine are huge figures. The trouble is that CNST requirements for the standards to be met are not always sensible or in the best interests of women. Some standards like (cord blood sampling for ph post birth) are simply taken to record results in the notes which may protect against litigation in the future. I have a million issues with this practice! We had a university supervised professional debate about this issue in the Trust where I worked when it first became an issue. The midwives against and the Obs. for. We won the debate but the CNST requirements meant that we could save the Trust loads of money if we did them so they were introduced. Some of us still refused to do them. I would only do them if it was explained in full to the mother and father and they agreed. I gave it to them warts and all (like the obs openly admit that it is just to defend them in cases of litigation.). I did not make the decision the parents did. Needless to say when you tell them how inaccurate the results are and that neither they nor the baby will benfit from the results. Many choose not to have it done. I will search out my references and post them seperately. Our debate was published in a midwifery mag here! Shelly Midwife - Original Message - From: Naomi Wilkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Hi all, Just wondering how common it is for cord blood gases to be done in maternity units. I work in a small metro. hospital with a very busy maternity unit and our medical 'powers that be' are pushing for them to be done at every birth. Something we, the midwives, are very, very reluctant to do. I was also wondering if anyone knows of any research that may help us to prevent this from becoming a routine thing. Thanks Naomi. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] rural nsw
HelloJustine, I'll just say part of the same area health as you! When I've got more energy I'll email you and get some more info on MC. I think there were some local women who joined up, but they wanted more postnatal care family care cottage stuff, didn't care about 1-2-1 midwifery care. The clinical midwifery consultant said when I spoke to her, it had to come from the women wanting midwifery care, basically not to bother trying. Most think it's great going to a doc, and not having to pay big prices like their city sisters. But they pay more than an antenatal clinic! Noone bulk bills in town, even though we're a low socio economic area. Sometimes I wish (work wise) I was still in the city - with antenatal clinics, midwifery run units, mid consultants, outpatient units etc etc How do you all stay sane ? Louise rural NSW [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
Hi Barb I had a client just last week for a pregnancy massage. She is 31 weeks and this is her second child. She breasted her first bub until she was about 18 months old. However, she is TERRIFIED not about the birth but about her new baby being given formula whilst it is in hospital. Apparently, this occurred with her first baby but without her knowledge and consent. At the time, she was absolutely furious that this had occurred because she had let everyone know how very keen she was to breastfeed. When she asked why this happened, she was given a variety of different reasons ranging from baby was hungry to a mere shrug of the shoulders. She spoke to her obs about it and he did not seem to be concerned about all the fuss. She couldnt understand why no-one seemed to think it was an issue because it was for her. In fact, she got really angry while talking about it during the massage and then she started crying still upset after almost 3 years!!! Ramona Lane Nunyara Healing From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris Bright Sent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 9:43 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include the other midwife told me the baby was hungry, we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something.And, my personal favourite, it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb
RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
I hope she wrote to the CEO of the hospital. She should make it VERY clear this time, in writing and I would put a big sign on the baby's cot. Is she aware that she could take legal action? The threat is usually enough. Women and midwives must take a stand because so many of the older midwives, and women still think it's ok to give a baby formula. On the other hand, a lot of mum's insist on comps even though the midwives discuss it stressing the importance of NOT giving formula. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of nunyaraSent: Monday, 16 October 2006 6:12 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies Hi Barb I had a client just last week for a pregnancy massage. She is 31 weeks and this is her second child. She breasted her first bub until she was about 18 months old. However, she is TERRIFIED not about the birth but about her new baby being given formula whilst it is in hospital. Apparently, this occurred with her first baby but without her knowledge and consent. At the time, she was absolutely furious that this had occurred because she had let everyone know how very keen she was to breastfeed. When she asked why this happened, she was given a variety of different reasons ranging from baby was hungry to a mere shrug of the shoulders. She spoke to her obs about it and he did not seem to be concerned about all the fuss. She couldnt understand why no-one seemed to think it was an issue because it was for her. In fact, she got really angry while talking about it during the massage and then she started crying still upset after almost 3 years!!! Ramona Lane Nunyara Healing From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris BrightSent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 9:43 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include "the other midwife told me the baby was hungry", we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something.And, my personal favourite, "it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk" Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb
Re: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
This is dreadful, This behaviour is assault and if i found someone had done that to my child I would have them charged! Di - Original Message - From: nunyara To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies Hi Barb I had a client just last week for a pregnancy massage. She is 31 weeks and this is her second child. She breasted her first bub until she was about 18 months old. However, she is TERRIFIED not about the birth but about her new baby being given formula whilst it is in hospital. Apparently, this occurred with her first baby but without her knowledge and consent. At the time, she was absolutely furious that this had occurred because she had let everyone know how very keen she was to breastfeed. When she asked why this happened, she was given a variety of different reasons ranging from baby was hungry to a mere shrug of the shoulders. She spoke to her obs about it and he did not seem to be concerned about all the fuss. She couldnt understand why no-one seemed to think it was an issue because it was for her. In fact, she got really angry while talking about it during the massage and then she started crying still upset after almost 3 years!!! Ramona Lane Nunyara Healing From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris BrightSent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 9:43 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses.I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include "the other midwife told me the baby was hungry", we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something.And, my personal favourite, "it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk" Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things.These are babieswho are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window.Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Very interesting, thank you! Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 4:18 AM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Dear All Further to our discussion on risk The Australian bureau of Statistics has a Mortality Atlas It is not available free but below is a snapshot Compare this with the Australian Mortality data for childbirth (1997-99) Yes that is the latest data. As usual they sit on this report (quite telling as to the importance of birthing women) The 19971999maternal mortality ratio (MMR) was 8.2deaths per 10confinements, compared with 9.1per 10in 19941996. JC Mortality Atlas from the ABS Age Standardised Death Rates (average 1997-2000) Cause Males (deaths per 100,000 persons) Females (deaths per 100,000 persons) Malignant Neoplasms 237.8 146.7 Ischaemic Heart Disease 190.0 119.9 Cerebrovascular diseases 65.8 65.8 Chronic lower respiratory diseases 46.6 23.2 Diabetes mellitus 18.8 13.6 Influenza and pneumonia 13.4 11.4 Accidents 35.6 17.7 Motor vehicle traffic accidents 13.1 5.5 Intentional self harm (suicide) 21.9 5.5 Organic, including symptomatic, mental disorders (includes dementia) 9.3 10.8
RE: [ozmidwifery] risk
I downloaded it from http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/327/7417/745.pdf. It is great, thank you. Puts things into perspective. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:20 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] risk Visit BMJ2003;327:745-748(27September), doi:10.1136/bmj.327.7417.745 Strategies to help patients understand risks. J Paling. I have found his Palings Perspective Scale and P P Palette very useful in explaining the degree of risk to women re screening tests and possible outcomes of various actions. MM Off the top of my head and without philosophical musings, I read thousands of words in dozens of references (just try googling health risk management) and this was the only thing I saw about doing no harm to the patient. Most of it was all about being blamed for harm that might be done and how to minimize being taken to the cleaners. It was not contained in the body of the quoted article by paul bellarmy whose article is interesting. I forget which one it was in, but could probably find it again if needed. Thanks for the compliment. MM What strikes you as particularly interesting about that Mary? I'm very interested in your perspective as you are one of the wisest women I know. warmly, Carolyn
RE: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies
Ramona, She may have to fight tooth and nail not to let the baby out of her sight this time. Only way to make sure formula is not given. Hope she succeeds this time. Cheers Judy --- nunyara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Barb I had a client just last week for a pregnancy massage. She is 31 weeks and this is her second child. She breasted her first bub until she was about 18 months old. However, she is TERRIFIED - not about the birth - but about her new baby being given formula whilst it is in hospital. Apparently, this occurred with her first baby but without her knowledge and consent. At the time, she was absolutely furious that this had occurred because she had let everyone know how very keen she was to breastfeed. When she asked why this happened, she was given a variety of different reasons ranging from baby was hungry to a mere shrug of the shoulders. She spoke to her obs about it and he did not seem to be concerned about all the fuss. She couldn't understand why no-one seemed to think it was an issue because it was - for her. In fact, she got really angry while talking about it during the massage and then she started crying - still upset after almost 3 years!!! Ramona Lane Nunyara Healing _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris Bright Sent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 9:43 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] blood gasses and other policies HI, Interesting conversation about blood gasses. I frequently get reports from mothers and health professionals that they gave birth in a Baby friendly hospital, or a hospital with clear policies on breastfeeding, but that babies are given infant formula often without their parents consent, or not with their parents INFORMED consent. This always intrigues me greatly. There seem to be no repercussions for staff who go against breastfeeding policies. Reasons I have heard for staff giving babies formula when I've asked midwives why they gave a baby formula include the other midwife told me the baby was hungry, we didn't want to disturb the mother etc. Mothers tell me they were told that staff didn't want to wake/disturb the mother - they knew she was tired. Told she had no milk. Told the baby was hungry and needed something. And, my personal favourite, it's OK, at this hospital we give babies the formula that is closest to human milk Rarely are they told WHY the midwife thinks these things. These are babies who are well, don't even start me on babies in the nursery where parent's rights seem to go right out the window. Some parents I have spoken to are very upset and angry. I wonder why breastfeeding policy is in a *different* category in most hospitals? Do others find this? Barb On Yahoo!7 Check back weekly for Trixi's new online adventures http://www.trixi.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: Re: [ozmidwifery] rural nsw
Justine - warrier princess! Sprung we had a review done tooas part of reasonable workloads, actually it was done by the assessors of Newcastle's choosing - but they're still ignoring it! Do you have a copy? It doesn't make us sound too good I'm sorry to say Rural areas always left out of the loop. We're not even on the HNE maternity booking in form "intended hospital of birth"!!! chocolate and bed Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---Original Message--- From: Justine Caines Date: 10/16/06 20:51:19 To: Grant and Louise McLeod Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] rural nsw Hey LouiseHow do I stay sane. At times it is difficult. But I have experienced the amazing life transforming care of 1-2-1 midwifery.Without my huge story it changed me from a damaged woman to Xena Warrior type. I can do anything (well guess you need that approach in this line of work!!)Hey we are out there so you need to fess up as to where you are. I am guessing Taree!!We can turn the post natal stuff around, PN is SO important and so lacking. We just need to work together cause HNEAHS is covered with MC (and with Terry Clout at the helm it needs to be!!) Am meeting with him again in Nov.Last week all the Obs at Muswellbrook resigned as a midwife had been consulted to do a review of services art MBk and Scone. They would only rescind their resos if she left, she lasted 40 hrs.A hard week last week. But I think these boys need some media attention to knock some sense into them!Kind regardsJustine
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference
Hi Di It does get easier and easier as you teach and becomes more comfortable and enjoyable. Yes it is making such a difference. Once the word gets out you will have lots of pregnant couples I'm sure. As far as I am aware Sue there are not any practitioners yet in WA. The laws in WA are still archaic so it makes it difficult tointroduce new programs like calmbirth in there. I believe that is starting to change though. The laws are the same in SA too. Amazing in this day and age that it can still be that way. Here is another story that just came through to me tonight. Sigh birth is so wonderful I hope it catches on *grin* I thought the listcould do with another beautiful story to uplift us and know we are out there working together for a beautiful causelife! warm regards Diane Gardner Hi there Diane Our little girl was born on Sunday the 1st of October at 5.30 am, after only a 3 hour labour and at 37 weeks this time. Saffron Lilli Shale weighing in at only 5lb, but perfect in every way. She came so quicklyI almost had her on the doorstep as we left for the hospital! When I woke at 2.30am and realised the birth was on its way, rather than being filled with dread at the thought of labour, I was overwhelmingly excited at the prospect of meeting my baby...that's when I really realised the value of calm birth. Despite a very fast progressing labour we were still both calm and using the techniques. The worst part was the car journey to the hospital. In hind-sight we probably would have been better placed not leaving home at all as I think I was probably already in transition by that stage, but 20 minutes later (which I thought was only about 10...so something was working well) and a few jumped red lights later we arrived at the Family Birth Centre (hospital name removed). Little Saffronpopped her head out for a leisurely look around (as the midwife put it)about 20 minutes later. Themidwife commented repeatedly about how relaxed little girl was and how fantastic the birth had been. It was pretty good from my point of view too! I picked her up, climbed into bed with her and we cuddled uninterupted for the next few hours. The cord wasn't cut till it stopped pulsating and I required no drugs to deliver the placenta. She fed at the breast spontaneously after about 10 minutes and stayed there for an hour! She certainly knows how to feed and she's piling the pounds on now! Apparently, She was posterior too, andI am toldwould have come quicker had she been the other way round! We have been so overjoyed by the fact that everything went according tothe birth plan, despite being surprised by the speed of it all. Thankyou so much for giving us confidence,positivity knowledge, and contributing to a wonderful birth experience for us and for Saffron. Coben has beena bit unsure about the whole thing but is getting the hang of being a big brother now as you can see from the photo. She loves him and won't take her eyes of him! Love from us all - Original Message - From: diane To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference Thanks from me too Diane, I just taught my first Calmbirth couple on the weekend, and although I felt a little awkward, I kept reminding myself of the difference it can make. (Im sure it will flow more easily as time goes on!). There are plenty of calmbirth practitioners on the NSW central Coast where I currently work. I will be setting up my classes when I move to Mackay next month. I will be needing one more volunteer couple when I get there, before gaining my certification as I dont have time to complete them before I move. So if anyone up that way knows of someone who may be keen to volunteer, please ask them to contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Other practitioners can be found on the Calmbirth register at www.calmbirthregister.com It doesnt look as if there are any on the register in WA though Sue, but you could contact Peter Jackson and ask him if there are any over that way. www.calmbirth.com.au Cheers, Di (L)
[ozmidwifery] testing
testing With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;[EMAIL PROTECTED] FN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ORG:themidwife TEL;HOME;VOICE:0359862535 TEL;CELL;VOICE:0409194623 TEL;HOME;FAX:0359862535 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20061016T134624Z END:VCARD
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference
Diane Gardner wrote: It is quite some time since I wrote on this list and after reading some of the posts recently it has made me really appreciate the job I am doing. I KNOW my job is encouraging women to change the way they give birth, again trusting their body's ability to just do it. Sorry this post is so long. I am not a midwife but part of childbirth education teaching the Australian calmbirth program. Previously I taught HypnoBirthing but because the USA had such a stranglehold on what we couldn't change to teach for Australia, the opportunity came along to be a part of the Australian program so I grabbed it knowing what a difference the previous program was already making and with an Australian influence it was even better. I also know many of you midwives out there are seeing a difference in the women who are coming in to birth their babies using these relaxation programs. I have been doing a small study which I only started a couple of months ago and of the last 17 couples who have birthed only one had medical intervention. They all listened to and worked with their bodies beautifully supported by their partners who also learn and appreciate how women birth. They also stood up to the system and said this is what I want. MY way! Only a week ago I returned home from Birsbane after a conference and one of my clients rang me to let me know she was in labour with her 3rd baby. Her first 2 births were horrendous. During her first birth she was losing control and her assigned midwife said you think this is bad, wait until the pain is so bad you will be BEGGING us to help you, the only thing that will get rid of this posterior labour pain is an epidural. So guess what she lost it totally there and then. During her second birth she had a wonderful and supportive midwife for the first couple of hours and then guess what the SAME midwife came on duty again. This time she said it would be better for everyone this time if you just have the epidural right now. My client went into immediate panick and the same scenario happened again. When she was pregnant again she knew she HAD to do something different. Nature was telling her to listen and this time she was. She rang in total fear of it repeating again and booked in for classes. When she spoke to me on the phone at the start of this 3rd labour she had been to the races and after going to the toilet realised she had, had a show. When she returned home she rang and said I am in labour but it is so different, it isn't painful, it is all in my back but I am breathing through the contractions easily. She knew her baby was posterior again so I let her know the postions to help encourage baby to rotate and also told her I would be around if she needed me for support. Two hours later her hubby rang and asked me to come into the hospital because a midwife who had relieved her assigned midwife to go to tea had bounced her and she was getting fearful of the same scencario being set up again. I arrived at the hospital 30 mins later to have missed the birth by 5 minutes. When her assigned midwife came back into the room and realised what had happened she immediately went to my client and whispered in her ear listen to your body, it knows what to do, just let it do it. From that moment there was no more panick, she was back on track. She said she just kept thinking to herself my body knows what to do, keep out of it's way and let it do its job. Her baby floated into the world calmly and peacefully. When I walked into the room she looked at me beaming and said I DID IT and it was so wonderful, my body is so wonderful. I NEVER had a doubt she could do it because we have birthed babies for thousands of years and our bodies just KNOW how to do it. She videoed the birth and it IS wonderful. So many times over the last five years I have been kicked in the face, riduculed, accused of interferring with hospital policy by telling women they have rights AND for daring to teach a program that encourages women to look back within and get back in touch with their natural ability to birth. In my early days I was shunned in the birthing room because others wanted to just take control of women's births and how dare I stand there and support a woman's rights. I stood my ground! You midwives out there ARE making a difference, please don't ever give up. I will never give up my support for women to have the births they deserve to have and having you wonderful women there fighting from within the system IS changing it one birth at a time. It only takes one pebble in a pond to start a ripple. I'm not naive, I know we have a long way to go but if I know birth IS changing one birth at a time then I am encourged to be there and continue the fight for the right to birth as nature intended. Thanks for listening. Diane Gardner Melbourne Dip Couns, Adv Dip Hypnosis NLP, HBCE ,calmbirth Prac. - Original Message -
RE: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases
Cord gases will be normal if it is an acute recent event, they are abnormal if it has been a chronic ongoing event this is why they are useful in litigation cases where the woman/child family are claiming negligence during labour, the usual being there were signs of fetal distress and a LSCS should have been done earlier, cord gases that are normal prove this was not the case. Just to play devils advocate I can understand how people feel the need to defend themselves against being sued when so often there is no proof that they did anything wrong at the time (benefit of hindsight being a wonderful thing of course). It is better to be doing cord blood gases to protect against litigation than even more LSCSs. I know it is only a few people that sue unnecessarily but as usual the few spoil it for the many. I would be interested to know what the rate of abnormal cord gases with a vigorous well baby were as sharing these stats are what will help decide sensible practices, we have to work towards being part of these decisions by using evidence and not just trying to go it on our own. Where I work the practice is to do cord gases at the births when a baby requires resus or there has been some problem in labour and any I have been involved in have been supportive of the care in labour. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wump fish Sent: 16 October 2006 20:34 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Hi Melissa I realise that from a 'scientific' perspective cord gases represent an accurate way of assessing fetal distress. But, I was on duty when a baby died due to shoulder dystocia - it's cord gases were normal. Kind of knocked my already weak faith in the technology. It was also policy in that hospital to do routine cord gases. Midwives would sometimes get poor cord gases with a vigorous baby??? I found that I was 'unable to obtain' cord gases unless there was an indication and/or the parents had consented (how can anyone prove otherwise?). I was concerned that if a baby came out healthy and I got documented 'proof' of compromise I was setting myself up for problems. Also, what do you tell the parents? You baby seems ok, but it's cord gases indicate otherwise? Kind of risk assessment in reverse. Quite interesting that cord gas analysis became routine overnight but waterbirth took years of battling to get up and running. I think cord gas analysis is an issue that needs debating - especially in relation to allocation of resources. Rachel From: Melissa Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:24:56 +0800 Hi Shelley, I recently attended a advanced fetal assessment course at our tertiary hospital and all the pros for cord blood gases were presented. CTG's were discussed with pros and cons such as 80% show some abnormality but 80% of babies are not sick or acidotic. It was presented as one of certain diagnostic tools for fetal acidosis and therefore useful for litigation. You mentioned the results are inaccurate. I'd be very interested in hearing why they are inaccurate. We don't do them and I don't agree with routinely doing them so any more information would be helpful. Thanks Melissa - Original Message - From: michelle gascoigne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Naomi In England we have seen in increase in 'fear' of litigation. Obstetrics in this country has always taken a huge chunk of the litigation for most hospitals . We now have in our country CNST (clinical neglegence scheme for trusts). Trusts are what groups of health care organisations are called. CNST is an insurance that Trusts pay into so that litigation claims can be paid when won. The CNST set out standards for trusts and depending on how well you achieve the standards determines the insurance premiums, which you can imagine are huge figures. The trouble is that CNST requirements for the standards to be met are not always sensible or in the best interests of women. Some standards like (cord blood sampling for ph post birth) are simply taken to record results in the notes which may protect against litigation in the future. I have a million issues with this practice! We had a university supervised professional debate about this issue in the Trust where I worked when it first became an issue. The midwives against and the Obs. for. We won the debate but the CNST requirements meant that we could save the Trust loads of money if we did them so they were introduced. Some of us still refused to do them. I would only do them if it was explained in full to the mother and father and they agreed. I gave it to them warts and all (like the obs openly admit that it is just to defend them in cases of
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)
On 17/10/2006, at 8:45 AM, Heartlogic wrote: Many (if not all) words from health professionals are hypnotic, and wire their way into a woman's mind and experience. While I agree with this in relation to women and birth, I have to (in most cases) disagree with this in regards to breastfeeding advice and support. MOST of the women I look after postnatally just don't listen or don't believe the advice they recieve - they don't trust their bodies. It's like the birth experience has been owned by someone else, and now they are being asked to trust their body, and that baby knows what he's doing, wanting to be on the breast every hour, for example to get the milk in - and they just don't believe it.No amount of education seems to make much difference, sadly. Do these women get sick of us telling them that it's normal? Would they be happier if we said, well actually, you don't have enough milk, so we'll need to intervene and give formula? Just musing :) Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference
Pleased to see he had a positive effect on a birth. Caroline Flint once talked about a woman who had a home birth in such circumstances and then sent the obstetrician a copy of A Guide to Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth with the relevant points highlighted as a gift to him. I agree about speaking truths but you have to respond to questions regarding your views too. Christine Hi Diane , What you said was great.Its interesting you talk of words used to encourage and support women in labour and language used that is the opposite- disempowering and destructive! I have birthed with a woman recently who soul searched and researched profusely about her chance of having a vaginal birth after a section first baby. When she told her doctor of thoughts of hiring a midwife and birthing at home , his response was then he would call the police on her!Needless to say this distressed her deeply but made her fight harder for what she wanted. And she pushed her baby out in water -DIRECT OP- at home , with no fears and total belief. So we should talk truths ( like Lisa does- good on you!) choose our words so they are caring , supportive and based on correct research and evidence. And in answer to your question Philippa - a woman has a right to choose what care and procedures she wants and a right to refuse.We can only offer care and totally inform. Wendy Thornton. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)
MOST of the women I look after postnatally just don't listen or don't believe the advice they recieve - they don't trust their bodies. It's like the birth experience has been owned by someone else, and now they are being asked to trust their body, and that baby knows what he's doing, wanting to be on the breast every hour, for example to get the milk in - and they just don't believe it. I utterly agree, Jo. The entire process of childbearing and rearing no longer belongs to women, we're bystanders at our own births a lot of the time and tested out of our wits throughout pregnancy. The assumption in medical birth is that pregnancy is dangerous and risky so why should bf be any different? Bodies are measured, sampled, quantified from the moment women step in the door and almost all without any evidence of usefulness. I see exactly what you're saying!!! We somehow expect women will go from being virtual science experiments in labour to bfing a baby without problems. If we tell women their bodies don't work to birth then we're also telling them they don't work to bf. It starts way back in the whole process, even when we're children and our faulty female bodies are disgusting in the eyes of most people. I struggle sometimes to find a time and place when a woman has trusted and believed in her body to relate to the ability to birth and bf. I often resort to talking about pooing and breathing which happen really well without a lot of attention being paid to them. Unhindered pooing is a popular theme in my life atm ; ) I even said VAGINA on the radio yesterday which caused the interviewer to do a quick intake of breath hahahaha. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] UniSA Students no longer able to attend births with Independant Midwives
Just got this email :( Any suggestions on what we can do about it? Dear BMid StudentsPlease be advised that due to insurance and professional indemity issues you are unable to follow through a woman if she is having her care provided by an independent practicing midwife.This would include the continuum of pregnancy care, labour and birth and during the postpartum period.Models of care such as midwifery group practice and the Northern Women's Community Midwifery Service will continue to be a valuable and encouraged pattern of midwfery care for follow through experiences and are not included in this advice.RegardsJanProfessor Jan PincombeProgram Director; MidwiferySchool of Nursing and MidwiferyUniversity of South AustraliaAdelaide SA AustraliaPhone o8 8302 2027
Re: [ozmidwifery] UniSA Students no longer able to attend births with Independant Midwives
Good grief this gets worse and worse. It so reminds me of the insurers attitude about the recent home birth here in Wangaratta. Where has this directive come from? University unsurers making decisions they know nothing about...namely normal birth. Frustrated and angry I don't have any answers to this one. What can be done? Wendy - Original Message - From: Honey Acharya To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] UniSA Students no longer able to attend births with Independant Midwives Just got this email :( Any suggestions on what we can do about it? Dear BMid StudentsPlease be advised that due to insurance and professional indemity issues you are unable to follow through a woman if she is having her care provided by an independent practicing midwife.This would include the continuum of pregnancy care, labour and birth and during the postpartum period.Models of care such as midwifery group practice and the Northern Women's Community Midwifery Service will continue to be a valuable and encouraged pattern of midwfery care for follow through experiences and are not included in this advice.RegardsJanProfessor Jan PincombeProgram Director; MidwiferySchool of Nursing and MidwiferyUniversity of South AustraliaAdelaide SA AustraliaPhone o8 8302 2027 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/477 - Release Date: 10/16/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)
With bf it's also all the propaganda women are subjected to in their life. Just look at the wording in formula ads. Hypnotic as well, I'd say. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:30 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long) MOST of the women I look after postnatally just don't listen or don't believe the advice they recieve - they don't trust their bodies. It's like the birth experience has been owned by someone else, and now they are being asked to trust their body, and that baby knows what he's doing, wanting to be on the breast every hour, for example to get the milk in - and they just don't believe it. I utterly agree, Jo. The entire process of childbearing and rearing no longer belongs to women, we're bystanders at our own births a lot of the time and tested out of our wits throughout pregnancy. The assumption in medical birth is that pregnancy is dangerous and risky so why should bf be any different? Bodies are measured, sampled, quantified from the moment women step in the door and almost all without any evidence of usefulness. I see exactly what you're saying!!! We somehow expect women will go from being virtual science experiments in labour to bfing a baby without problems. If we tell women their bodies don't work to birth then we're also telling them they don't work to bf. It starts way back in the whole process, even when we're children and our faulty female bodies are disgusting in the eyes of most people. I struggle sometimes to find a time and place when a woman has trusted and believed in her body to relate to the ability to birth and bf. I often resort to talking about pooing and breathing which happen really well without a lot of attention being paid to them. Unhindered pooing is a popular theme in my life atm ; ) I even said VAGINA on the radio yesterday which caused the interviewer to do a quick intake of breath hahahaha. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
