Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Belinda Maier]

Sheena the Aropax wouldn't be a problem and in these 
circumstance should not go off them. I would try  expressing and finger 
feeding so the baby relearns to feed comfortably feel satisfied and to start 
putting on weight. I have dealt with many serious and distressing cases of 
refusal and so far have been successful with them. It needs the scream try to 
feed scream frustration and finally sleep (not well usually) cycle to be broken. 
I start by finger feeding the baby until she is full for a few feeds (breast 
milk preferably). Mum can do this with the baby skin to skin (or dad or 
grandma). This helps ease some tension which is usually going on by now in that 
mums usually feel quite helpless and distraught and worried and confused etc 
etc!! So after about 12 24 hours or more if needed start the feed next to the 
breast and after a small amount of food slip the baby on to the breast (easier 
said than done often!, good attachment is sill essential otherwise feeding will 
remain a trauma). If the baby starts to get upset then cease and finish with a 
finger feed. This is done slowly but depends on the babys reaction. Some get 
very distraught so you would try only once each feed until they stayed calm and 
some get a bit restless but can try a few times in the one feed. The main thing 
is to re teach the baby she can get comfort and food at the breast without 
fighting. I know this is long and am happy to talk to you about this 
(0883692338) as I have successfully worked with many very difficult cases. 
Finger feeding is a specific technique as well so let me know if you need more 
info. There is also a way which involved bathing with the baby but many of my 
clients have not had access to one so it is not something I am confident 
discussing. It can be overcome
good luck Belinda

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sheena Johnson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 20 September, 2002 6:47
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
  breast
  
  Hi List
   
  Ruby Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) 
  baby grand-daughter is now refusing the breast most feeds. We have been 
  through colic and reflux. Mum has had mastitis twice and a vaginal infection. 
  Ruby started to refuse the breast the same time that her Mum started her 
  ?period. She has had an ultra sound that is inconclusive, the doctor says that 
  what is showing could just be the uterus involuting, but the Mum says that 
  babe has been refusing the breast since she has been losing blood. Have also 
  resorted to glycerine on the dummy and on the nipple to entice her to feed. 
  She only put on a couple of ounces last week. Babe seems to feed ok during the 
  night, but in the daytime, starts crying and won't feed. Any advice out there. 
  I favour going back to her obstetrician and asking for a second opinion on the 
  ultrasound reading. This Mum is on Aropax 30mg a day.
   
  Appreciate any advice going
   
  Thanks Sheena 
Johnson

Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[alastair tawns]

Oh dear, how miserable for you all. I can only 
suggest that the milk may have changed intaste since the mother's periods 
started. .My own experience was slightly similar in that my first four babies 
all refused the breast as soon as I became pregnant. My fifth , and last baby 
NEVER refused and would still be feeding now. Incidentally I had no periods 
until Elliot (no. 5  ) stopped b/feeding .
 Perhaps you could try feeding Ruby with 
expressed breast milk from a cup or bottle and see if she refuses that as 
well
hope you find the solution 
best wishes 
Mel 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sheena Johnson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:17 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
  breast
  
  Hi List
   
  Ruby Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) 
  baby grand-daughter is now refusing the breast most feeds. We have been 
  through colic and reflux. Mum has had mastitis twice and a vaginal infection. 
  Ruby started to refuse the breast the same time that her Mum started her 
  ?period. She has had an ultra sound that is inconclusive, the doctor says that 
  what is showing could just be the uterus involuting, but the Mum says that 
  babe has been refusing the breast since she has been losing blood. Have also 
  resorted to glycerine on the dummy and on the nipple to entice her to feed. 
  She only put on a couple of ounces last week. Babe seems to feed ok during the 
  night, but in the daytime, starts crying and won't feed. Any advice out there. 
  I favour going back to her obstetrician and asking for a second opinion on the 
  ultrasound reading. This Mum is on Aropax 30mg a day.
   
  Appreciate any advice going
   
  Thanks Sheena 
Johnson

RE: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Larry & Megan]

Hi Sheena,
If position is part of the problem, then an Osteopath with expertise in
cranium work could rule out discomfort to the baby. Also good for all
aspects of the body, including reflux.

Worth a try
Megan.

--
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Denise Hynd]

A few years ago I had a client who's baby fed 
sufficiently at night that it did not do much during the day but was putting on 
weight and the mother was getting criticised!Need less to say I asked her 
what she thought and she was ok with this baby and it is unique behaviour she 
just wanted some one to say it was ok 
Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sandra J. Eales 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:16 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
  breast
  
  Dear Sheena
  Breast refusal is often multi factorial and 
  difficult to give good advice over the internet without being able to see 
  exactly what is going on.  Have you been to see a Lactation Consultant? 
  
  Babies usually do have a pretty good (and 
  logical) reason for their behaviour. We just have difficulty reading it 
  sometimes.
   
  If she is breast feeding well at night but 
  refusing during the day then you need to look at what is different.  This 
  also makes it very hopeful that you should be able to remedy the situation 
  relatively easily once you recognise the cause of the behaviour.
  Is it
  
different feeding postion? - sometimes if 
they have been stressed at the breast by upset mum in pain, being held in 
uncomfortable position, being forced to the breast e.g. hand behind the head 
etc. then the babe will struggle against this.  If it is held for 
comfort in one position - say, up on the shoulder and then shifted to a 
different position to feed and it associates that position with 
struggle and stress then it will be thrown into a panic as soon as it is 
shifted from the "comfort" position to the "struggle" position - side lying 
with minimal handling of babe is often most comfortable for mum and babe in 
this situation.. and re-educating the babe (and mum) that the breast is a 
place of comfort and feeling good.. use the breast feeding hold at other 
times just to be close and cuddle... 
mum and baby sleepy and relaxed at the night 
feeds?..relaxation bath with mum and babe and lots of skin on skin time 
that is enjoyed by both mum and babe is important 
larger supply and quicker let down at 
night?..hungry babes will often get frustrated if milk is not coming 
quick enough - supply-line may be useful in this case until the supply has 
increased
  If mum or babe have been on antibiotics at any 
  stage then this can wreak havoc on the babies gut and immune system - can 
  cause thrush which can effect the way a babe sucks and cause lots of tummy 
  pains - Natren Lifestart which is a probiotic (bifidobacterium) will normalise 
  these effects from the antibiotics.
   
  I would be fairly confident that the cause of the breast refusal has 
  little to do with the "period" unless there has been retained 
  placental fragments which has been suppressing lactation.  If this is the 
  problem then besides the removal of the fragments the are various solutions 
  for increasing her milk supply.
  Poor attachment is often another contributing cause of these types of 
  difficulties (both supply problems and breast refusal issues).  Use of 
  dummy is also often associated with poor attachment .  I would strongly 
  recommend seeking out an LC.
   
  Hope something here is useful to you
   
  Good Luck 
   
  Sandra
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Sheena Johnson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:17 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
breast

Hi List
 
Ruby Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) 
baby grand-daughter is now refusing the breast most feeds. We have been 
through colic and reflux. Mum has had mastitis twice and a vaginal 
infection. Ruby started to refuse the breast the same time that her Mum 
started her ?period. She has had an ultra sound that is inconclusive, the 
doctor says that what is showing could just be the uterus involuting, but 
the Mum says that babe has been refusing the breast since she has been 
losing blood. Have also resorted to glycerine on the dummy and on the nipple 
to entice her to feed. She only put on a couple of ounces last week. Babe 
seems to feed ok during the night, but in the daytime, starts crying and 
won't feed. Any advice out there. I favour going back to her obstetrician 
and asking for a second opinion on the ultrasound reading. This Mum is on 
Aropax 30mg a day.
 
Appreciate any advice going
 
Thanks Sheena 
  Johnson

Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Sandra J. Eales]

Dear Sheena
Breast refusal is often multi factorial and 
difficult to give good advice over the internet without being able to see 
exactly what is going on.  Have you been to see a Lactation Consultant? 

Babies usually do have a pretty good (and logical) 
reason for their behaviour. We just have difficulty reading it 
sometimes.
 
If she is breast feeding well at night but refusing 
during the day then you need to look at what is different.  This also makes 
it very hopeful that you should be able to remedy the situation relatively 
easily once you recognise the cause of the behaviour.
Is it

  different feeding postion? - sometimes if 
  they have been stressed at the breast by upset mum in pain, being held in 
  uncomfortable position, being forced to the breast e.g. hand behind the head 
  etc. then the babe will struggle against this.  If it is held for comfort 
  in one position - say, up on the shoulder and then shifted to a different 
  position to feed and it associates that position with struggle and stress 
  then it will be thrown into a panic as soon as it is shifted from the 
  "comfort" position to the "struggle" position - side lying with minimal 
  handling of babe is often most comfortable for mum and babe in this 
  situation.. and re-educating the babe (and mum) that the breast is a place of 
  comfort and feeling good.. use the breast feeding hold at other times just to 
  be close and cuddle...
  mum and baby sleepy and relaxed at the night 
  feeds?..relaxation bath with mum and babe and lots of skin on skin time 
  that is enjoyed by both mum and babe is important
  larger supply and quicker let down at 
  night?..hungry babes will often get frustrated if milk is not coming quick 
  enough - supply-line may be useful in this case until the supply has 
  increased
If mum or babe have been on antibiotics at any 
stage then this can wreak havoc on the babies gut and immune system - can cause 
thrush which can effect the way a babe sucks and cause lots of tummy pains - 
Natren Lifestart which is a probiotic (bifidobacterium) will normalise these 
effects from the antibiotics.
 
I would be fairly confident that the cause of the breast refusal has little 
to do with the "period" unless there has been retained placental 
fragments which has been suppressing lactation.  If this is the problem 
then besides the removal of the fragments the are various solutions for 
increasing her milk supply.
Poor attachment is often another contributing cause of these types of 
difficulties (both supply problems and breast refusal issues).  Use of 
dummy is also often associated with poor attachment .  I would strongly 
recommend seeking out an LC.
 
Hope something here is useful to you
 
Good Luck 
 
Sandra

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sheena Johnson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:17 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
  breast
  
  Hi List
   
  Ruby Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) 
  baby grand-daughter is now refusing the breast most feeds. We have been 
  through colic and reflux. Mum has had mastitis twice and a vaginal infection. 
  Ruby started to refuse the breast the same time that her Mum started her 
  ?period. She has had an ultra sound that is inconclusive, the doctor says that 
  what is showing could just be the uterus involuting, but the Mum says that 
  babe has been refusing the breast since she has been losing blood. Have also 
  resorted to glycerine on the dummy and on the nipple to entice her to feed. 
  She only put on a couple of ounces last week. Babe seems to feed ok during the 
  night, but in the daytime, starts crying and won't feed. Any advice out there. 
  I favour going back to her obstetrician and asking for a second opinion on the 
  ultrasound reading. This Mum is on Aropax 30mg a day.
   
  Appreciate any advice going
   
  Thanks Sheena 
Johnson

Re: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[DebSlater]

Some years ago, I went to a conference (in London) about prenatal influences.  Peter Hepper gave a talk about his research on prenatal influences, including babies recognition of sound heard before birth - particularly the "neighbours" theme tune :-)

However, he did speculate that part of the bonding process includes the fact that - in utero - the baby swallows amniotic fluid, and that the fluid is very similar in taste to breastmilk.  Thus, when the baby first tastes breastmilk, he recognises the taste from his previous experience of swallowing amniotic fluid.  The taste in amniotic (as with breastmilk) is influenced by the mothers diet, and it is therefore important that mothers do not change their diet significantly after birth as the baby will find it "difficult" to recognise the breastmilk as coming from his mother.

Obviously, it's not the only factor.

Debbie Slater
Perth, WA

RE: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Rhonda]

   
  Have you tried giving her a bottle of Expressed Breast milk - is it 
  the taste of the milk that has put her off?  I would try to look at 
  the mothers diet - has it changed - may be a coincidence with the 
  bleeding?  As has been said before garlic is good to help to flavour 
  breat milk. 
  If it is the flavour that is - if she takes it out of the bottle then 
  it may be just a flow problem - wanting a faster flow - different 
  possitions can help this and there is a preasure spot on the shoulder that 
  if pressed when feeding helps with let down.  I have found this often 
  helps when babies wont settle quickly at the breast - Mum becomes tense 
  and this slows the let down so baby gets irritated and you have 
  a catch 22.  If you push on this area firm but gently it seems 
  to create an instant small let down of milk which gets baby going and then 
  Mum relaxes and problem solved.  It is about 4 fingers from the 
  neck.  Works wonders! 
   
  Hope that helps.   I also believe that if things do not 
  work out after many efforts at breast feeding - that the babies health is 
  more important than "breat feeding at all costs" and if baby needs formula 
  and wont take anything else then so be it.  We have these things here 
  to help in cases where they are actually needed and if baby is starving 
  then finding an alternative in formula is better than having a small sick 
  child.  Nobody should feel guilty about using formula when it is 
  necessary - we all know that ultimately 'breast is best' but we 
  also need to remember common sence.
  Good Luck.
   
  Rhonda  
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, September 
  20, 2002 21:06:00
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast
   
  
  Hi 
  Sheena,
  I’m 
  really cautious about recommending anything but breast, as despite my 
  desire to the contrary, my one year-old had to be bottle-fed from six 
  weeks (for reasons too personal to go into here). I was advised by our 
  paed to give her S26 Gold, a very reassuring name with lots of 
  scientific-sounding jargon on the label to allay an anxious mother’s 
  fears. Still deferring to medical opinion (being in a highly suggestible 
  post-partum state), I fed her this and several other formulas until it 
  became clear that her digestion was being seriously compromised by 
  drinking it. Each brand produced the same result: projectile reflux, 
  nasty-smelling nappies, skin problems 
  etc.
  I 
  then went with what I had been advised against since suggesting it. I 
  talked it over with my husband, who was very keen to try it. It’s called 
  Barley Formula. You make it yourself. It’s almost totally organic, if you 
  get the right ingredients, and is as close to mother’s milk as you can 
  get, in my humble opinion.
  It 
  worked for my little one. She became a happy, thriving little girl. She 
  inherited eczema from one or both sides of my family, and has some other 
  medical issues that are genetic in origin, so she’s a very sensitive 
  little possum, but barley formula confounded many who pooh-poohed it. I 
  also happen to personally know at least 10 people who have had total 
  success with it and have anecdotal evidence of success with hundreds 
  more.
  If 
  you really need to supplement, please consider this formula. My email is 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I’ll 
  write out the recipe for you and explain more about it off-list, if you 
  wish to know.
  In 
  the meantime, good luck, I hope Ruby goes from strength to 
  strength.
  Regards,
  Lyn 
  Cottee 
  
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sheena 
  JohnsonSent: Friday, 20 
  September 2002 7:17 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the 
  breast
  
  Hi 
  List
  
  Ruby 
  Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) baby grand-daughter is now refusing 
  the breast most feeds. We have been through colic and reflux. Mum has had 
  mastitis twice and a vaginal infection. Ruby started to refuse the breast 
  the same time that her Mum started her ?period. She has had an ultra sound 
  that is inconclusive, the doctor says that what is showing could just be 
  the uterus involuting, but the Mum says that babe has been refusing the 
  breast since she has been losing blood. Have also resorted to glycerine on 
  the dummy and on the nipple to entice her to feed. She only put on a 
  couple of ounces last week. Babe seems to feed ok duri

RE: [ozmidwifery] Refusing the breast

[Lyn Cottee]

Hi Sheena,

I’m really
cautious about recommending anything but breast, as despite my desire to the
contrary, my one year-old had to be bottle-fed from six weeks (for reasons too
personal to go into here). I was advised by our paed to give her S26 Gold, a
very reassuring name with lots of scientific-sounding jargon on the label to
allay an anxious mother’s fears. Still deferring to medical opinion (being in a
highly suggestible post-partum state), I fed her this and several other
formulas until it became clear that her digestion was being seriously
compromised by drinking it. Each brand produced the same result: projectile
reflux, nasty-smelling nappies, skin problems etc.

I then
went with what I had been advised against since suggesting it. I talked it over
with my husband, who was very keen to try it. It’s called Barley Formula. You make
it yourself. It’s almost totally organic, if you get the right ingredients, and
is as close to mother’s milk as you can get, in my humble opinion.

It worked
for my little one. She became a happy, thriving little girl. She inherited
eczema from one or both sides of my family, and has some other medical issues
that are genetic in origin, so she’s a very sensitive little possum, but barley
formula confounded many who pooh-poohed it. I also happen to personally know at
least 10 people who have had total success with it and have anecdotal evidence
of success with hundreds more.

If you
really need to supplement, please consider this formula. My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I’ll write out
the recipe for you and explain more about it off-list, if you wish to know.

In the
meantime, good luck, I hope Ruby goes from strength to strength.

Regards,

Lyn Cottee


 

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Sheena Johnson
Sent: Friday, 20 September 2002
7:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Refusing
the breast

 

Hi List

 

Ruby Rainbow our 10 week old (3 weeks prem) baby grand-daughter is
now refusing the breast most feeds. We have been through colic and reflux. Mum
has had mastitis twice and a vaginal infection. Ruby started to refuse the
breast the same time that her Mum started her ?period. She has had an ultra
sound that is inconclusive, the doctor says that what is showing could just be
the uterus involuting, but the Mum says that babe has been refusing the breast
since she has been losing blood. Have also resorted to glycerine on the dummy
and on the nipple to entice her to feed. She only put on a couple of ounces
last week. Babe seems to feed ok during the night, but in the daytime, starts
crying and won't feed. Any advice out there. I favour going back to her
obstetrician and asking for a second opinion on the ultrasound reading. This
Mum is on Aropax 30mg a day.

 

Appreciate any advice going

 

Thanks Sheena Johnson