Re: formula without consent?
yes, I think we all need to be aware that the birth plans on the internet all seem to be about 20 yrs out of date. We don't use eye drops anymore in America at least not in Washington or California. And does anyone give perineal shaves anymore? But those items are still on the internet birth plans. I guess they just need to be updated. We seem to need a template for everything. marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
The website www.childbirth.org has a lot of information on biirthing plans that seems a little more current .It gives samples ,info on how to write one ,opinions of mothers who used them and a lot of other information.Although they are written with an American view they still have a lot of useful ideas that we can use Lyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/08/01 07:07pm yes, I think we all need to be aware that the birth plans on the internet all seem to be about 20 yrs out of date. We don't use eye drops anymore in America at least not in Washington or California. And does anyone give perineal shaves anymore? But those items are still on the internet birth plans. I guess they just need to be updated. We seem to need a template for everything. marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: formula without consent?
Tina as far as I know there is no body that has the power to formally investigate complaints and police hospitals about breaches (not breeches - they're different) of the 10 Steps or WHO Code, or any other voluntary standard. The real power is the collective voice of consumers. A letter to the management, with a cc to the State Baby Friendly committee, stating the person's concerns - not so much about the failure to adhere to the standard, but about the potential harm that could result from that act - will be read. The Health Complaints Commissioner could be contacted, but you may have a job convincing her/him to act on your behalf. The baby friendly assessment at present refers to well mothers and babies, so a baby readmitted for jaundice would be considered outside the 10 steps standard. This does not change the issue of the mother's expectation to be informed and to give consent. I used to work in a the first Australian Baby Friendly hospital, and there was a notice on the board stating very clearly that if any staff member gave a breastfed baby anything other than mother's milk without mother's consent and following the written protocol, that staff member would not continue their employment. Joy -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
What do others think? Could it? Would it? I actually feel that it probably doesn't in our local hospitals, but you still hear of women feeling threatened into giving formula. If you don;t he'll be dehydrated/it will clear up his jaundice etc. Any thoughts? A bit off topic, , but I remember, with my first child, while breastfeeding was still such a 'personal' social challenge, my mother providing me with a bottle and formula during a visit to her - my child was about 2 months old. I knew it was wrong (for me and my son) to bottle-feed (I had breastfed up till then) but suddenly I felt more comfortable/accepted giving my son a bottle than I ever felt exposing my breast to feed him at my mother's house Somehow I felt that I had gained her approval. Sad. Luckily he totally refused the bottle! He was not impressed. And the breastfeeding continued regardless of my mother's plans... But for a few minutes I gained my mother's approval - which is what I bet many daughters challenge today, isn't it? And for those few minutes of approval, I felt happy - more so than any other time feeding my child at my mother's house. I also always felt that I was doing the wrong thing, but somehow in 'conforming' to what my mother thought was right (ie, bottler-feeding) felt good... Mothers have so much impact on their daughter's success at breastfeeding - they should be incorporated into all breastfeeding information classes. They need to learn what is best for their grandchildren and then they would probably be the best advocates - something they may have lacked in their own personal experiences. Just some thoughts. BB Jackie Mawson. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
This confirms my own experience albiet from a different anle. My mother being a 1930's trained midwife was a strong breast feeding advocate, having breast fed me her only child in 1951, despite considerable social pressure to be more modern. When she returned to work in 1958 I do remember her being at the very least appalled at not only the drugs being used in labour but the decline in breast feeding. She always encouraged mums to breast feed when she could and I knew in my heart from an early age that was the only way to feed a baby in her eyes. At the small rural hospital wher she worked (Tully, Qld.,) the midwives routinely collected breast milk from term mothers for any preemies that were in the nursery and needed extra milk (they were all quite fastidious, I remember, so I am sure the milk was treated appropriately). So, when I had my own babies there was no conflict only support from my mum. I had my first 2 daughters at Corinda Maternity Center in Brisbane, Qld., in 1976 and 1978 and I felt the staff were very supportive of breast feeding. They did encourage pumping so that if we needed to sleep through at night they had milk for feeds. I remember checking the fridge to see that my milk was appropriately labelled. To my knowledge no formula was given and even though we didn't have rooming in for my first daughter, they did 2 yrs later. I wonder if Corinda Maternity still exits?? So, i agree grandmothers have a strong influence on how infants are fed and if at all possible should be included in childbirth/infant care classes. Regards, marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: formula without consent?
The principle In normal birth there should be a valid reason to interfere with the natural process (WHO Care in Normal Birth 1996) applies just as much to the establishment of breastfeeding as it does to pregnancy and birth. Unfortunately we have in many cases lost the perspective of a natural process. Some of you may think I am nitpicking, but the statement firstly it is medically indicated is the exact point at which most babies are given supplements, as well as interferences such as inductions and augmentations are carried out. WE (the professionals) carry the power to say what's medically indicated. Many many times I have witnessed this situation, which Jan and others have written about too. The FIRST (not 2nd) step should be a skilled counsellor (preferably imho a known and trusted midwife, since this happens in the days after birth) who is 'with woman' before any problems (medical reasons) develop, and who explores the problem (real or perceived) with the woman and commits to an agreed plan. In that way most breastfeeding difficulties can be managed without thinking about formula. I stand by the BFHI '10 Steps to successful breastfeeding' as a clear statement of best practice for maternity service providers. The acceptable reasons for supplementation in the BFHI are quite stringent. (The most acceptable alternative to a mother's own milk is milk from another woman.) Many hospitals have become accredited as 'baby friendly' in the past decade, but that doesn't mean the culture of interference has been changed. 'Fiddling' is part of the human condition - there are very few cultures in which unsupplemented breastfeeding of newborns is the norm. Those who are working in hospitals, as well as those who are attending women and their babies in their homes need to be constantly vigilant. This doesn't mean ignoring the unsettled, hungry baby who is trying to get the precious liquid, but hasn't got it right, or the sleepy, jaundiced baby who is trying to come out of narcotic haze. It means finding ways to support each unique mother/baby pair to achieve their goal, without doing any harm. This is part of a lifelong learning process for me. Learning to work with, and not against, the wonderful human body is far more difficult and challenging than learning how to interrupt and interfere. Joy Johnston -Original Message- From: Malavisi, Pete [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 6:21 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject:RE: formula without consent? I saw a mother today in my child health capacity and she mentioned that her 2 day old babe had been given boiled water overnight because it was unsettled, not sure if consent was gained or not, but my understanding is that we shouldn't be giving anything except for the breast unless firstly it is medically indicated ( I do appreciate it that this is open to interpretation) and secondly only after consent is gained from parents. yours in midwifery, pete malavisi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
In a message dated 8/12/01 9:23:15 AM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The acceptable reasons for supplementation in the BFHI are quite stringent. (The most acceptable alternative to a mother's own milk is milk from another woman.) Many hospitals have become accredited as 'baby friendly' in the past decade, but that doesn't mean the culture of interference has been changed. Hi Joy and all, sooo true Joy!! Earlier this year a personal friend gave birth to her second child. A beautiful physiological birth, babe and woman well. This woman was committed to BF her babe (BF babe No 1 well into his second year) and BF was established immediately at birth and was moving along well with the Woman home 24 hours after birth. Day 3 babe was readmitted to special care nursery for phototherapy for severe jaundice. Woman was expressing milk and running backwards and forwards every couple of hours to feed her babe (day and night). She phoned me distraught one day during this time saying her babe had been given formula WITHOUT her consent !! The nursery staff had run out of EBM and she wasn't due back for an hour. Staff gave the babe formula WITHOUT her consent, insisting that they considered her rest more important and didn't wish to disturb her Re: EBM or returning earlier to feed the babe. This woman lived 2 minutes drive from the hospital !!! I was astonished to think that this could and would happen in a 'baby friendly' accredited institution - I urged her to contact the Unit Manager for an explanation first and foremost to discuss the situation and what would be done to ensure it didn't happen again to her or anyone else !! I also urged her to contact ACMI, ABA, ALCA to share her experience and for further information of avenues to lodge her complaint Re: The 'baby friendly' stuff. I followed her up on this only recently to find that she was given a good hearing by the 'MUM' who also shared her distress that this occurred. The woman took no further action on this (despite my urging she contact the ACMI Re: 'baby friendly' breech.) In such instances, any advice on who is the most appropriate 'authority' to report such a breech of 'baby friendly' policy ?? Yours in birth, Tina Pettigrew Birthworks Independent CBE and aspiring B.Mid Midwife. Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective [EMAIL PROTECTED] As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth Harriette Hartigan. --- -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
On 8/12/01 10:44 AM, Grant and Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh I see this happen regularly, consent is given - but not INFORMED consent. Your baby NEEDS a bottle/comp/some food because s/he's hungry/dry/jaundiced/big/little/sleepy/crying/prem/overdue/urates in the nappy (or you've laboured/had a caesar/had diabetes/were overdue/had lots of visitors) No discussion of alternatives or possible outcomes of the little bottle. In the mothers eyes it's okay because WE ( who are classed as the medical) say so. Louise The cure for all things is salt water - Sweat, tears, or the sea. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. This shameful situation would cease to occur if midwives educated women during their pregnancy about their baby's nutritional needs over the first few days of life and help them plan their first interactions with their baby. Isn't anyone making Birth Plans with women? Birth Plans are the greatest insurance to getting informed consent to anything but they also give the women confidence to ask appropriate questions/ and/ or politely refuse offers not just during labour and birth but with situations such as inappropriate formula for their baby In fact Birth Plans are the greatest asset any midwife or mother could have WHO USES THEM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
10 years ago my friend and I made birth plans concerning the very most important things to us regarding the births of our babies..hers was totally disregarded and her new born was given sugared boiled water and formula (despite stating that her baby was to receive NOTHING BUT BREAST MILK).I had a list of 7 things on mine - I didn't want to seem too pushy they were all ignored except that the baby not be given any supplements which they did try to get my consent for anyway. I remember when I handed my birthplan over to a midwife when I was admitted to the hospital and she had a quick look and rolled her eyes!! My next 2 babies were born at home and I was skeptical about filling out the detailed birthplans the midwives provided me with. I did though because as they explained, they may help if I was transferred to hospital. This shameful situation would cease to occur if midwives educated women during their pregnancy about their baby's nutritional needs over the first few days of life and help them plan their first interactions with their baby. Isn't anyone making Birth Plans with women? Birth Plans are the greatest insurance to getting informed consent to anything but they also give the women confidence to ask appropriate questions/ and/ or politely refuse offers not just during labour and birth but with situations such as inappropriate formula for their baby In fact Birth Plans are the greatest asset any midwife or mother could have WHO USES THEM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: formula without consent?
Unfortunately I work in the private OBSTETRIC system, and very rarely see a birth plan. Those we see have NOT been discussed with a caregiver - medical or midwifery- and usually have been copied from an American internet site/book and include things like no eye drops for the baby. sigh we keep going and help those we can... Louise ---BeginMessage--- On 8/12/01 10:44 AM, Grant and Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh I see this happen regularly, consent is given - but not INFORMED consent. Your baby NEEDS a bottle/comp/some food because s/he's hungry/dry/jaundiced/big/little/sleepy/crying/prem/overdue/urates in the nappy (or you've laboured/had a caesar/had diabetes/were overdue/had lots of visitors) No discussion of alternatives or possible outcomes of the little bottle. In the mothers eyes it's okay because WE ( who are classed as the medical) say so. Louise The cure for all things is salt water - Sweat, tears, or the sea. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. This shameful situation would cease to occur if midwives educated women during their pregnancy about their baby's nutritional needs over the first few days of life and help them plan their first interactions with their baby. Isn't anyone making Birth Plans with women? Birth Plans are the greatest insurance to getting informed consent to anything but they also give the women confidence to ask appropriate questions/ and/ or politely refuse offers not just during labour and birth but with situations such as inappropriate formula for their baby In fact Birth Plans are the greatest asset any midwife or mother could have WHO USES THEM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. ---End Message---
Re: formula without consent?
I remember when I handed my birthplan over to a midwife when I was admitted to the hospital and she had a quick look and rolled her eyes!! When I presented an Obstetrician with my birthplan, she flicked through it (pen held at the ready) and crossed out most of it, saying Well, that's not going to happen, and that's not going to happen... Sigh... Needless to say, I beat a hasty retreat from the interview! Birthing Beautifully, Jackie Mawson. Convenor of Birthrites: Healing After Caesarean Inc. Visit our Website at: http://www.birthrites.org Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 61 08 9418 8949 Please note I am not a Professional Healthcare Provider, and all opinions given in this email are not to be taken as medical, or legal, advice. Please seek such advice from the relevant professional service. Email me your postal details for a FREE copy of our quarterly magazine, if you live within Australia - Overseas postage costs are above budget, sorry! Too many Gods; so many creeds, Too many paths that wind and wind, When just the art of being kind Is all the sad world needs... -- -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: formula without consent?
Unfortunately it can and does happen It goes like this your baby has had a blood test which shows it needs extra calories so we will be correcting this, assumed consent or your baby has not passed urine and is dehydrated so we will be giving him extra fliud informed consent. would you like us to care for your baby and bring it back for feeds/ yes oh poor thing [mother] let her sleep a little top up won't hurt . Unless there is a policy where written consent is needed there is always a risk.jan ' - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 3:49 AM Subject: formula without consent? Hi, Just wanted your thoughts. Last week we held a seminar for health professionals on breastfeeding. About 30 midwives and ABA counsellors attended, which I thought was terrific. One midwife raised the issue that she felt some babies were still being given formula without parental consent in hospital. This was greeted by a very angry response by most attending (over the top, I actually thought, as she didn't mention any particular midwives/hospitals and was not accusing those present) What do others think? Could it? Would it? I actually feel that it probably doesn't in our local hospitals, but you still hear of women feeling threatened into giving formula. If you don;t he'll be dehydrated/it will clear up his jaundice etc. Any thoughts? Barb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: formula without consent?
I saw a mother today in my child health capacity and she mentioned that her 2 day old babe had been given boiled water overnight because it was unsettled, not sure if consent was gained or not, but my understanding is that we shouldn't be giving anything except for the breast unless firstly it is medically indicated ( I do appreciate it that this is open to interpretation) and secondly only after consent is gained from parents. yours in midwifery, pete malavisi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
