RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
One of the most moving father involvements I have seen was many years ago. Their first baby, she was sweaty and untidy and in pain etc and he just kept whispering in her hear You're beautiful, I love you. Tear making stuff. They are still a happy couple after another three children and 20 years. cheers Judy --- Miriam Hannay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you, Megan! To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband and I share. He described me during labour and birth as being 'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary noises I made during birth were similar to the noises I make during orgasm! Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with no intervention. With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything about me mysterious after fourteen years, otherwise how would he know what I need and desire?! What would be fantastic for men would be for all practitioners to actively facilitate a role for them during the birth process that makes them feel involved and reflects the extraordinary beauty of the experience. If only... regards, Miriam. --- Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its interesting how the conversation focuses on the womans vagina. What about the rest of her body? My husband loved the feeling of my muscles working in my body, he says they have been different for each birth. The last 3 were water births, so no vagina watching by any one. Speaking on his behalf, I know that he was and is so awe inspired by watching me have our babies, it only added to his desire and love. So I guess the total experience of how women birth is what we are looking at. No surprises there! The book, I think titled, Father Time, which is a collection of interviews of Australain men, discusses this and the men who experienced homebirths very clearly did not experience the trauma. I'm not sure about this sexual mystery thing though. As a woman I take great pride in having a uterus, vagina and breasts that have created and given life 4 times, its not all about toys for boys. (Although having 4 sons kind of retracts that statement) My thoughts anyway Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I remember Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the effect on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been exposed to the birth process. Michel was advocating that women might want to retain some of their sexual mystery by excluding men from the birth room. I have been at births where I wondered how the father was taking the sight of a practitioner cutting an episiotomy. What does everyone think about this? http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html Regards, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Midwifery in Fremantle or Perth
Dear Midwives, Are there any midwifery/lactation conferences, seminars between 11th September and 27th September2005? I am visiting from NSW for the Annual Lace Week of Workshops at that time. Barbara Stokes, Parkes NSW
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
OK, I found it: Its a combination of gob, mouth, and smacked. It means utterly astonished, astounded. These stories makes me so sad. How nice that they can get some support. Vedrana From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:02 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births What does gobsmacked mean? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I wonder if anyone does these or similar in Melbourne specifically for men On the Joyous Birth forums there is a private section specifically for fathers who have been present at births which were traumatic. We also support them in planning, with their partners,for subsequent births in a more empowered and informed way. We have dads at Joyous Birth meetings in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney where they have access to all our books, videos and the like. Many men who attend home births, especially after experiencing how unnecessary they often are in the hospital hierarchy, become great advocates of woman centred birth. When I ran that article past the dad who moderatesthat forum,he was gobsmacked that anyone could find the normal, natural processes of birth anything other than wondrous. He sat like a deaf mute, through fear,watching his wife scream through repeated unwanted VEs, with the staff demanding that he help hold her still. He was sent home at one point as her induced labour ramped up because the hospital was having building done and she was forced to labour in one large room with other unsupported labouring women. He saw her repeatedly jabbed in the leg with pethidine without her knowledge or consent - it was done in the middle of a cx and she would ask what had been given to her when she came out of the pain. Eventually all this led to caesarean and the staff refusing both him and his wife the chance to hold their baby for many many hours. She is still recovering from PTSD 3 years later and after a great deal of work, they have reclaimed their marriage and are planning a home birth. He can't wait to actually be involved and be able to support his wife. And she can't wait to hold her own baby as soon as it's born. I think the pathologising of even normal, physiological birth has led us to this sad situation. We have at least one couple who have divorced partly over the husband supporting the hospital to pressure the wife into an unnecessary (and second!)elective caesarean. The physical injury she sustained from that operation was terrible, not to mention the PTSD, and she says in retrospect she didn't realise how much his attitude would impact negatively on their marriage, let alone her birth experience. So now she's single and dreaming of a HBA2C for her future. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
What does gobsmacked mean? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I wonder if anyone does these or similar in Melbourne specifically for men On the Joyous Birth forums there is a private section specifically for fathers who have been present at births which were traumatic. We also support them in planning, with their partners,for subsequent births in a more empowered and informed way. We have dads at Joyous Birth meetings in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney where they have access to all our books, videos and the like. Many men who attend home births, especially after experiencing how unnecessary they often are in the hospital hierarchy, become great advocates of woman centred birth. When I ran that article past the dad who moderatesthat forum,he was gobsmacked that anyone could find the normal, natural processes of birth anything other than wondrous. He sat like a deaf mute, through fear,watching his wife scream through repeated unwanted VEs, with the staff demanding that he help hold her still. He was sent home at one point as her induced labour ramped up because the hospital was having building done and she was forced to labour in one large room with other unsupported labouring women. He saw her repeatedly jabbed in the leg with pethidine without her knowledge or consent - it was done in the middle of a cx and she would ask what had been given to her when she came out of the pain. Eventually all this led to caesarean and the staff refusing both him and his wife the chance to hold their baby for many many hours. She is still recovering from PTSD 3 years later and after a great deal of work, they have reclaimed their marriage and are planning a home birth. He can't wait to actually be involved and be able to support his wife. And she can't wait to hold her own baby as soon as it's born. I think the pathologising of even normal, physiological birth has led us to this sad situation. We have at least one couple who have divorced partly over the husband supporting the hospital to pressure the wife into an unnecessary (and second!)elective caesarean. The physical injury she sustained from that operation was terrible, not to mention the PTSD, and she says in retrospect she didn't realise how much his attitude would impact negatively on their marriage, let alone her birth experience. So now she's single and dreaming of a HBA2C for her future. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also been a midwife long enough to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, and delivered a few myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at least they were mostly seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective C/S (nearly 21 years old now!) was for primip breech, although I was given the choice of vaginal birth, I knew just what that would entail within the large unit that I was obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, and I chose not to go there, however at that time there was no question that I would not be able to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not so. A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who was lucky enough to see a less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed Melissa :-)) and she chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to be induced on the 'right' day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that we really don't see them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who does do them does such a horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S rather than submit to his handling.( you can probably guess that one too Mel!) It is sad that student midwives today will not learn these essential skills within the hospital system. Personally I feel confident that I can handle an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next generation are going to cope with this, there is so much fear of what is really only a different variety of birth, in the same way that any 'different' presentation is. Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie Banks speak, watched her video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers will know that this is true Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling having just come to Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). It was a real shock to me to see how much all births are seen as being the doctor's property. One of my first births here was in a small hospital and I called the GP as per protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands and proceeded to rush in, without even washing his hands and virtually pushed me out of the way! I looked at him with horror and said quietly I think I may as well finish the job now don't you? He did step back and let me finish. Some years later he admitted that he had learned a few things from me - one of which was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver the shoulders! They were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby out, it drove me mad. When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician (often a male authority figure) telling them their baby is in danger - they will chose to protect their child because as a mother that is their instinct. An example of this happened to me just this week - the head was well and truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal distress) but OB insisted on listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about 100, and he took over from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for the baby as I knew there had been no compromise throughout and that he would be born within minutes, but within the system I am obliged to defer to the doctor's judgement, whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know well what happens when one tries to argue!! I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy - it is very different here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep pushing for midwifery led care. I feel that much of the problem lies with how we are percieved and presented within this system. We are seen as being secondary and forced into a 'waitress' role, while doctors are glorified as being all-knowing experts. I have spent ages discussing things with couples only to have everything overturned by a 5 minute doctor appointment. Nice to have your input on the list Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Rachel, Actually that was me (Brenda)not Sue, who wrote about the physiological breeches, and I do realise now that experience is rare. When you speak about choice what you'd do if you had a breech baby yourself you are really limited because there are not many of us in PP who have experience with breeches. I would definitely not alter plans to birth at home if my baby was breech (but I have had 4 children) finding a MW to attend would be a difficult task though! There is no way on earth I'd consent to surgery to remove my healthy baby just because he was upside down ! The next best option here would be to go to our local private hospital with my own MW the OB who supports us (he was the OB who had enough belief in women 10 years ago to be present for their breech births but now is 'not allowed' to do them because of the breech trial). I would just
Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!! Thanks for making me smile Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Noises during birth ARE similar to sex I think...not that I eaves drop that often! ;o) I think when people think of birthing positions and facial expressions not being 'ladylike' I often want to say it doesn’t seem to bother people at the other end of the equation! -being conception! Thanks to cosmo and cleo we can now all feel comfortable with orgasim and the such...saw the headline for an article called heads up on going down gawd even made me blush! But when it comes to birth we are far more comfortable with the quiet well behaved serene woman. Just think, the lay back and think of england sex of years gone by has changed to be empowering, fulfilling and activebut birth has so far to go! Jo SA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:49 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I'm with you, Megan! To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband and I share. He described me during labour and birth as being 'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary noises I made during birth were similar to the noises I make during orgasm! Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with no intervention. With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything about me mysterious after fourteen years, otherwise how would he know what I need and desire?! What would be fantastic for men would be for all practitioners to actively facilitate a role for them during the birth process that makes them feel involved and reflects the extraordinary beauty of the experience. If only... regards, Miriam. --- Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its interesting how the conversation focuses on the womans vagina. What about the rest of her body? My husband loved the feeling of my muscles working in my body, he says they have been different for each birth. The last 3 were water births, so no vagina watching by any one. Speaking on his behalf, I know that he was and is so awe inspired by watching me have our babies, it only added to his desire and love. So I guess the total experience of how women birth is what we are looking at. No surprises there! The book, I think titled, Father Time, which is a collection of interviews of Australain men, discusses this and the men who experienced homebirths very clearly did not experience the trauma. I'm not sure about this sexual mystery thing though. As a woman I take great pride in having a uterus, vagina and breasts that have created and given life 4 times, its not all about toys for boys. (Although having 4 sons kind of retracts that statement) My thoughts anyway Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I remember Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the effect on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been exposed to the birth process. Michel was advocating that women might want to retain some of their sexual mystery by excluding men from the birth room. I have been at births where I wondered how the father was taking the sight of a practitioner cutting an episiotomy. What does everyone think about this? http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html Regards, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or
[ozmidwifery] x-rays and other nasties for a pregnant woman
Can I please have some thoughts on where to look for info on this? This young woman was admitted to hospital with a suspected clot on the lung and suspected pneumonia. She is really freaked out and I'd love to direct her somewhere specific for information. This is direct from her. Cheers, J "I was taken straight through again the next morning for the other scan, which turned out to me like one of those CT scan things, where you lay down and the machine goes all around you taking photos. The man that did them was nice, but the doctor that came in to 'explain' everything was a real wench. She didn't look at me once, and just said that she couldn't guarantee that there would be no risk to the baby, but given that 'it's 20/40..' and she trailed off (wtf does that mean? that there should be no problem? that they would be extra careful?) before shoving a clipboard in my face and getting me to sign a disclaimer that she didn't give me time to read. (That was my fault I know, but not being familiar with hospitals and not having view of mum for reassurance I just signed ) Anyway, halfway through (trapped under a wide plate that came a cm from my nose) I was told to give them an arm, and was injected with what I now know was the radiation stuff they use to monitor the blood pumping. I asked what it was for, and wasn't answered until it was halfway into me. The whole time I just lay there in tears thinking that I was doing something that was really damaging to my baby, and no one was giving me any answers. Afterwards I was told that there was no clot, but that oxygen wasn't getting to my right lung properly and this meant pneumonia. I was given a quick checkup and more tablets and sent on my way. What makes it worse is that bubs has been very very active every single day since I could properly feel kicks (around 16 weeks) and since Tuesday night I've hardly felt him at all... Just a tiny tiny little bump maybe every couple of hours. That's two days now and I'm really really worried that I've let him be harmed in some way.. I have no idea what to do! Mum says to not worry about it because the doctors wouldn't have given me anything that would hurt the baby, but I feel like something is wrong." Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
PS I have a very dear friend who says that her labour WAS orgasmic - while I can't (unfortunately) claim the same, there was definitely a sexual/sensual aspect to it Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!! Thanks for making me smile Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Noises during birth ARE similar to sex I think...not that I eaves drop that often! ;o) I think when people think of birthing positions and facial expressions not being 'ladylike' I often want to say it doesn’t seem to bother people at the other end of the equation! -being conception! Thanks to cosmo and cleo we can now all feel comfortable with orgasim and the such...saw the headline for an article called heads up on going down gawd even made me blush! But when it comes to birth we are far more comfortable with the quiet well behaved serene woman. Just think, the lay back and think of england sex of years gone by has changed to be empowering, fulfilling and activebut birth has so far to go! Jo SA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:49 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I'm with you, Megan! To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband and I share. He described me during labour and birth as being 'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary noises I made during birth were similar to the noises I make during orgasm! Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with no intervention. With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything about me mysterious after fourteen years, otherwise how would he know what I need and desire?! What would be fantastic for men would be for all practitioners to actively facilitate a role for them during the birth process that makes them feel involved and reflects the extraordinary beauty of the experience. If only... regards, Miriam. --- Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its interesting how the conversation focuses on the womans vagina. What about the rest of her body? My husband loved the feeling of my muscles working in my body, he says they have been different for each birth. The last 3 were water births, so no vagina watching by any one. Speaking on his behalf, I know that he was and is so awe inspired by watching me have our babies, it only added to his desire and love. So I guess the total experience of how women birth is what we are looking at. No surprises there! The book, I think titled, Father Time, which is a collection of interviews of Australain men, discusses this and the men who experienced homebirths very clearly did not experience the trauma. I'm not sure about this sexual mystery thing though. As a woman I take great pride in having a uterus, vagina and breasts that have created and given life 4 times, its not all about toys for boys. (Although having 4 sons kind of retracts that statement) My thoughts anyway Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I remember Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the effect on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been exposed to the birth process. Michel was advocating that women might want to retain some of their sexual mystery by excluding men from the birth room. I have been at births where I wondered how the father was taking the sight of a practitioner cutting an episiotomy. What does everyone think about this? http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html Regards, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL
[ozmidwifery] NSW news
New credentials give hope for birth centre EMMA SWAIN Tuesday, 30 August 2005 New credentials for midwives assisting in low risk births may pave the way for a midwifery-managed birthing model to be established in Maitland, a young mother has said. Maitland mother of two, Sarah-Jane Hazell, said news that midwives working under midwifery-managed birthing models in NSW would now be credentialed was a positive move forward for women's choice when it came to giving birth. I think this is just fantastic news and I believe it means Maitland has a real chance of having a midwifery-led birthing model like the one already established at Belmont, Ms Hazell, a member of the NSW Maternity Coalition, said. The Belmont Birthing Service opened in July for those Hunter women unlikely to experience complications during pregnancy, labour and birth. This is the first midwifery-led birthing service to be established in the Hunter area. Ms Hazell gave birth to her second child at home after experiencing a traumatic hospital birth with her first child. One to one midwifery care is a wonderful thing and women should have the choice of using this method if they want to, besides obstetricians are becoming more difficult to find and more expensive so a midwifery-managed model seems like the perfect alternative. NSW Health Minister John Hatzistergos said the new credentialling process, to be administered by the NSW Midwives Association, would be a first of its kind for Australia. This new system of credentialling for midwives is a quality control mechanism that will optimise safety for women who opt for midwifery-managed antenatal, birthing and postnatal care, Mr Hatzistergos said. In the rare instance that a problem develops during pregnancy, labour, birth or the post-natal period, midwives working as primary care givers will need to make important decisions about the need to seek medical attention. The credentialling process will provide a further set of checks and balances to ensure midwives are competent and confident in providing this care to women in low-risk settings. President of the NSW Midwives Association Dr Pat Brodie said this exciting new initiative would enable the public and care providers to have increased confidence in the range of services provided by midwives working in this way. For the first time, midwives have an opportunity to participate in a standardised quality process across the State, Mr Brodie said. http://maitland.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=newssubclass=localcategory=general%20newsstory_id=419799y=2005m=8 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
I think the utter relief after giving birth and the euphoria and oxytocin running through your body with a wet warm baby on your belly can be likened to orgasm - except BETTER! Cheers Jo x -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2005 11:45 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births PS I have a very dear friend who says that her labour WAS orgasmic - while I can't (unfortunately) claim the same, there was definitely a sexual/sensual aspect to it Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Ah but they don't think that sex and childbirth are related!! Thanks for making me smile Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Noises during birth ARE similar to sex I think...not that I eaves drop that often! ;o) I think when people think of birthing positions and facial expressions not being 'ladylike' I often want to say it doesn't seem to bother people at the other end of the equation! -being conception! Thanks to cosmo and cleo we can now all feel comfortable with orgasim and the such...saw the headline for an article called heads up on going down gawd even made me blush! But when it comes to birth we are far more comfortable with the quiet well behaved serene woman. Just think, the lay back and think of england sex of years gone by has changed to be empowering, fulfilling and activebut birth has so far to go! Jo SA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:49 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I'm with you, Megan! To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband and I share. He described me during labour and birth as being 'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary noises I made during birth were similar to the noises I make during orgasm! Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with no intervention. With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything about me mysterious after fourteen years, otherwise how would he know what I need and desire?! What would be fantastic for men would be for all practitioners to actively facilitate a role for them during the birth process that makes them feel involved and reflects the extraordinary beauty of the experience. If only... regards, Miriam. --- Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its interesting how the conversation focuses on the womans vagina. What about the rest of her body? My husband loved the feeling of my muscles working in my body, he says they have been different for each birth. The last 3 were water births, so no vagina watching by any one. Speaking on his behalf, I know that he was and is so awe inspired by watching me have our babies, it only added to his desire and love. So I guess the total experience of how women birth is what we are looking at. No surprises there! The book, I think titled, Father Time, which is a collection of interviews of Australain men, discusses this and the men who experienced homebirths very clearly did not experience the trauma. I'm not sure about this sexual mystery thing though. As a woman I take great pride in having a uterus, vagina and breasts that have created and given life 4 times, its not all about toys for boys. (Although having 4 sons kind of retracts that statement) My thoughts anyway Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I remember Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the effect on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
Sheesh.. The old credentialing crap. Midwives do not need to be credentialed to provide care for low risk women. That is what we are trained to do. Credentialing should be for things that are outside the scope of normal midwifery care. Things like epidurals, interpreting electronic fetal monitoring, induction of labour etc. This drives me crazy Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. - Lois Wilson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
Oh.. and just to dig the hole for myself deeper. I believe that accreditation for independent midwives has not supported independent practice but is a way to control and punish midwives who wish to work within their full scope of practice. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. - Lois Wilson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] FW: Men at Birth
Hi all, On this thread of men at birth, see below an email I received asking for men to write their experiences of birth for an upcoming book written for men by men! A much needed resource. Please ask your male partners, clients and friends to write their story. Im not sure if the attachment will come through, if not let me know and Ill cut and paste it into a separate email. Cheers Jo Hunter P.S. My husband was totally present, supportive and awestruck at the births of our 4 children (1 birth centre, 3 homebirths all water births). He said to me later they were the best parties hed ever been to! From: Stringybarkers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:44 PM To: jo Subject: Men at Birth Dear Jo, I am writing to you to seek your assistance in an upcoming book I am writing. As you may have heard, I have edited an anthology of birth stories that highlight the value of midwifery care. After a considerable gestation time, the book, Having a Great Birth in Australia was published in early July 2005 (see http://www.acmi.org.au/greatbirth for more information), by the Australian College of Midwives on behalf of the College and the Maternity Coalition (MC). The breadth and quality of stories collected for 'Great Birth' attest to the assistance I received from people (such as yourself) in identifying possible authors. I am now asking doulas and midwives to assist me again to find authors for a new book that I intend to write. Like Great Birth this new book will focus on the value of midwives in being the main carer in birth, but this time from a man's perspective. My original idea for Great Birth was that it would have stories from women and men about their experiences. I received over fifty submissions, but only one was written by a man! As you are aware, men are very important at birth. They can either be supportive of the labouring woman, or they can communicate their fear of birth to the woman, and make the birth more difficult (and increase the likelihood of intervention). I believe (and research confirms) that much of this fear comes from birth being such an alien experience for men. Men do not talk about birth with each other and therefore they do not know what to expect. Their education comes from television, films and books. The little information they may get from pre-natal childbirth education courses still tend to focus on the biological aspects of birth, and little on 'the experience for men.' I wish to redress this lack of information by publishing a book of birth stories written by men for men. So what help would I like from you? Attached to this letter are Writer's Guidelines for the second book, seeking assistance from men willing to write their stories. I would greatly appreciate your assistance in sending these guidelines to your clients, other midwives or doulas, or anyone or any organization that may be interested in the project. I want stories that encompass the entire range of births - normal, caesarean, VBAC, twins, breech etc (and even stillbirth and miscarriage), in labour wards, birth centres and at home, so please don't feel I am seeking a particular 'kind' of birth when asking men for their help. If you don't have the time to contact your clients directly, please just forward them this email and guidelines. If you know of other people I should contact, I would appreciate if you could let me know. Thank you so much for considering this request. With best wishes, David Vernon
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
I agree with you Sally, but midwives in the new midwifery led models would probably need case loading skills and the truth is that many midwives work in the current fragmented system that is doctor oriented. They probably will need Upskilling in woman centered holistic care. MM Sheesh.. The old credentialing crap. Midwives do not need to be credentialed to provide care for low risk women. That is what we are trained to do. Credentialing should be for things that are outside the scope of normal midwifery care. Things like epidurals, interpreting electronic fetal monitoring, induction of labour etc. This drives me crazy Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. - Lois Wilson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
I tend to agree with you Sally! I would be interested to read the ACMI's ratiionale behind credentialling for midwives. I too believe that a qualified midwife should be fully capable and responsible to care for normal pregnancy and birth. I guess it comes back to old arguement: A midwife is a midwife or alternately: When is a midwife not a midwife? Leanne. From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:04:50 +0800 Sheesh.. The old credentialing crap. Midwives do not need to be credentialed to provide care for low risk women. That is what we are trained to do. Credentialing should be for things that are outside the scope of normal midwifery care. Things like epidurals, interpreting electronic fetal monitoring, induction of labour etc. This drives me crazy Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. - Lois Wilson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
I also agree with you that this is not turned out as it was originally intended. It was supposed to be a benchmark for ALL midwives to aspire to. It now is something that only independent midwives use to conform to certain rules in some workplaces. It certainly doesn't support us.A pity that this did not fulfill it's original purpose. MM Oh.. and just to dig the hole for myself deeper. I believe that accreditation for independent midwives has not supported independent practice but is a way to control and punish midwives who wish to work within their full scope of practice. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. - Lois Wilson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] More news on midwifery units
These two stories are in the Sydney Morning Herald today, along with a big colour photo, on page 3: Pregnant pause as birth program gets the push By Ruth Pollard, Health Reporter September 2, 2005 No continuity Lisa McLean, with son Luke, two, has lost her midwife. Photo: Peter Morris The NSW Government has abandoned a midwife project at Mona Vale and Manly hospitals, leaving up to 200 women - some of whom are due to give birth in the coming month - to scramble to find places at other hospitals. Just days before the project was to go ahead, the Northern Beaches Health Service decided to shelve it and undertake a review of maternity services in the area. Lisa McLean, who is due to give birth in eight weeks, has been affected by the change. She was attracted to the program because of the continuity of care it provided to expectant mothers, who were to have been allocated to one midwife for prenatal, birthing and postnatal care. Now, the women must choose to give birth at the unit without personalised midwives, or find obstetricians or birthing centres elsewhere. Mrs McLean will stay with the unit but has no idea which midwife will be caring for her and her baby. It was to become more of a personal, one-on-one experience; they are on call, they are there for the birth and the follow-up afterwards. That is the reason a lot of women go to obstetricians, even though they don't really need to, to have that continuity of care. AdvertisementAdvertisement The general manager of the Northern Beaches Health Service, Frank Bazik, said he was not prepared to give his final approval to the project before having all maternity services reviewed to determine which birthing model was appropriate for each hospital. Insisting that it had been deferred for only two to three months, Mr Bazik said there had been no safety concerns about the program. There have been some meetings with the obstetricians about this proposed model and they are supportive of it. However, the Herald understands that staff have been told that severe budget problems at the health service were a factor in the decision. Sally Tracy, an associate professor of midwifery practice development at the University of Technology, Sydney, said there was no reason to defer the program. I have no doubt that they have been bullied into not allowing this service to go ahead Clearly, there are people who have vested interests in this, who do not want to see a service where women go to midwives. --- Doctors irked at lack of say in midwifery talks September 2, 2005 A rift has emerged between the NSW Government and the Australian Medical Association, which says it has been shut out of consultations on the development of maternity services. So deep is the division that the association has begun a vigorous campaign to reclaim ground in the debate. Andrew Pesce, an obstetrician and senior member of the association, told the Herald that while a recent review of six international studies had found some modest benefits from midwife-assisted births, it had also found significant risks. It showed an 83 per cent increase in the risk of infant mortality, he said. Dr Pesce said NSW Health had made a policy decision to exclude the association from consultations, presumably because they know how we will respond. But Kathleen Fahy, the dean of midwifery at the University of Newcastle, and the co-author of the review, Denis Walsh, have disputed Dr Pesce's interpretation. AdvertisementAdvertisement The review, by the international non-profit group the Cochrane Collaboration, had not found a significant difference in baby deaths and it is less then honest of Dr Pesce to imply that it did, Professor Fahy said. After reviewing each of the studies included in the review she found 60 per cent of women who were supposed to give birth assisted by a midwife had been transferred to a hospital. Yet all the baby deaths were blamed on the birthing centres, even if the baby died hours, days or months after transfer to medical care. Most deaths were due to gross prematurity, gross abnormality or an unexplained stillbirth, she said. Their [the doctors'] fear is that midwives will get a Medicare number and set up in competition and women may choose midwives as their primary care providers rather than doctors. The association's NSW president, John Gullotta, said yesterday that he had also received no response to a request for a meeting with the Minister for Health, John Hatzistergos. It is very important that he does talk to his major medico-political lobby group. As health minister if you are not talking to the AMA you are not talking to the major group. Mr Hatzistergos would not say whether the Government had excluded the association, but said it had not put its concerns to him. Ruth Pollard - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in
[ozmidwifery] c-sections and dental health
THought this may be of interest, Kylie C-section linked to cavity-causing bug in infants Last Updated: 2005-09-01 16:44:08 -0400 (Reuters Health) By Amy Norton NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Some infants delivered by cesarean section may have a higher risk of developing cavities later in life, a new study suggests. Researchers found that among young children who harbored a particular cavity-causing bacterium in their mouths, those who were delivered by C-section acquired the infection one year earlier, on average, than those delivered vaginally. Mothers appeared to be the main source of transmission of the bacterium, known as Streptococcus mutans. Since early acquisition of S. mutans, which can make cavity development more likely, the findings suggest that these children could be at greater risk of cavities down the road. That's not certain, since the study did not follow the children long enough, lead study author Dr. Yihong Li told Reuters Health. Still, she said the "take-home message" is that women with cavities who deliver by C-section should pay particularly close attention to their children's oral health over time. Li, an associate professor at the New York University College of Dentistry, and her colleagues report the findings in the Journal of Dental Research. The researchers suspect that vaginal delivery offers infants some early protection against S. mutans colonization. Passing through the birth canal exposes newborns to "good bacteria" from their mothers that are key to setting up infants' defense against disease-causing bugs. These beneficial bacteria set up colonies that leave little space for less benign sorts like S. mutans. But because C-section deliveries are relatively aseptic, these infants may be more vulnerable to early S. mutans colonization, Li explained. For their study, she and her colleagues followed 156 mainly African-American mothers and their infants for 4 years. All of the women were low-income and three quarters had cavities. Overall, the researchers detected S. mutans in 35 percent of the children over the study period. Those who were delivered by C-section first showed the bacterium at the age of 17.1 months, on average, versus 28.8 months among children who were delivered vaginally. The age gap is important, Li said, because other research has suggested that earlier S. mutans acquisition increases a child's cavity risk. But "mode of delivery" was only one of the variables that affected a child's acquisition of S. mutans, Li pointed out. Among the other factors were the extent of a mother's tooth decay and the level of S. mutans in her saliva. The study adds to recent research that has highlighted the potential importance of a mother's oral health to her child. Several studies, for example, have linked maternal gum disease, which is caused by bacteria, to poorer fetal growth and a higher risk of preterm delivery and certain other pregnancy complications. SOURCE: Journal of Dental Research, September 2005. Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world. Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61242970115 m: +612418220638 f: +61242970747 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Re-learning how to do breech births
Hello listers, Yesterday I was talking to Maggie Banks about scheduling some more of her wonderful Birthspirit Intensive workshops for 2006. We hope to take in Adelaide and Brisbane as well as Sydney and Melbourne next year, given their enormous popularity (still a few places left in the December program: http://www.birthinternational.com/event/intensives2005/index.html Anyway, she mentioned that she now has a program designed to teach midwives how to manage breech births, that is in the process of being fully credentialled through the NZ College of Midwifery. She is now touring NZ offering this program so that midwives feel confident in facilitating this kind of birth, if it happens. Would there be enough interest in Australia for me to approach her to present some of these workshops here? It would make a very good alternative to the ALSO program, and is completely midwifery based. As far as I know, it is a one day program too. There has been quite a lot of discussion about breech births on the list and the loss of skills as a result of the swing towards C/Sec. This might be one way to help halt the slide. Please email me if you are interested. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW news
I too agree that a midwife should be fully qualified and capable of looking after normal pregnancy and birth. Having said that, I have to say that my university based training (grad dip)in no way prepared me to give complete holistic care.At 4 years post-grad I started working at the birth centre and I found it a huge learning curve, mostly in the antenatal care.Maybe this just reflects on my own training, but at the time it had more prac hours than any othermid coursein Aust. (or so they claimed). Cheers Michelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/02/05 10:22am I tend to agree with you Sally!I would be interested to read the ACMI's ratiionale behind credentialling for midwives. I too believe that a qualified midwife should be fully capable and responsible to care for normal pregnancy and birth.I guess it comes back to old arguement: " A midwife is a midwife" or alternately: "When is a midwife not a midwife?"Leanne.From: "Sally Westbury" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] NSW newsDate: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:04:50 +0800Sheesh..The old credentialing crap. Midwives do not need to be credentialed toprovide care for low risk women. That is what we are trained to do.Credentialing should be for things that are outside the scope of normalmidwifery care. Things like epidurals, interpreting electronic fetalmonitoring, induction of labour etc.This drives me crazySally WestburyHomebirth Midwife"Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story totell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually whereyou'll find it."- Lois Wilson--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.Leanne WynneMidwife in charge of "Women's Business"Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. *** This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return email. You should also delete this email and destroy any hard copies produced. ***
Re: [ozmidwifery] x-rays and other nasties for a pregnant woman
Hello All What she may like to do is write to the CEO of the hospital in question and tell the story. This is appalling and should not happen in today's health care system. This woman is entitled to a full explanation of her procedure and given that her consent was obtained under less than adequate conditions and was not informed; I believe she warrants an apology as well. Women should not be frightened or intimidated to lodge a complaint; it her right as a health system user. The information she seeks should have been provided by the person ordering the test before the procedure was carried out. Jenny Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPO Box 1465Howard Springs NT 0835 0419 528 717 - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] x-rays and other nasties for a pregnant woman Can I please have some thoughts on where to look for info on this? This young woman was admitted to hospital with a suspected clot on the lung and suspected pneumonia. She is really freaked out and I'd love to direct her somewhere specific for information. This is direct from her. Cheers, J "I was taken straight through again the next morning for the other scan, which turned out to me like one of those CT scan things, where you lay down and the machine goes all around you taking photos. The man that did them was nice, but the doctor that came in to 'explain' everything was a real wench. She didn't look at me once, and just said that she couldn't guarantee that there would be no risk to the baby, but given that 'it's 20/40..' and she trailed off (wtf does that mean? that there should be no problem? that they would be extra careful?) before shoving a clipboard in my face and getting me to sign a disclaimer that she didn't give me time to read. (That was my fault I know, but not being familiar with hospitals and not having view of mum for reassurance I just signed ) Anyway, halfway through (trapped under a wide plate that came a cm from my nose) I was told to give them an arm, and was injected with what I now know was the radiation stuff they use to monitor the blood pumping. I asked what it was for, and wasn't answered until it was halfway into me. The whole time I just lay there in tears thinking that I was doing something that was really damaging to my baby, and no one was giving me any answers. Afterwards I was told that there was no clot, but that oxygen wasn't getting to my right lung properly and this meant pneumonia. I was given a quick checkup and more tablets and sent on my way. What makes it worse is that bubs has been very very active every single day since I could properly feel kicks (around 16 weeks) and since Tuesday night I've hardly felt him at all... Just a tiny tiny little bump maybe every couple of hours. That's two days now and I'm really really worried that I've let him be harmed in some way.. I have no idea what to do! Mum says to not worry about it because the doctors wouldn't have given me anything that would hurt the baby, but I feel like something is wrong." Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.7/70 - Release Date: 11/08/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] More news on midwifery units
Well, you women in Oz are certainly the media darlings these days! Keep the ball rolling by phoning your local papers and asking if they'd like to do a feature on midwives, waterbirth, homebirth, birth centres or whatever you've got going. The little papers like to be led by the big ones and there will be interest. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] More news on midwifery units These two stories are in the Sydney Morning Herald today, along with a big colour photo, on page 3: Pregnant pause as birth program gets the push By Ruth Pollard, Health Reporter September 2, 2005 No continuity . Lisa McLean, with son Luke, two, has lost her midwife. Photo: Peter Morris The NSW Government has abandoned a midwife project at Mona Vale and Manly hospitals, leaving up to 200 women - some of whom are due to give birth in the coming month - to scramble to find places at other hospitals. Just days before the project was to go ahead, the Northern Beaches Health Service decided to shelve it and undertake a review of maternity services in the area. Lisa McLean, who is due to give birth in eight weeks, has been affected by the change. She was attracted to the program because of the continuity of care it provided to expectant mothers, who were to have been allocated to one midwife for prenatal, birthing and postnatal care. Now, the women must choose to give birth at the unit without personalised midwives, or find obstetricians or birthing centres elsewhere. Mrs McLean will stay with the unit but has no idea which midwife will be caring for her and her baby. It was to become more of a personal, one-on-one experience; they are on call, they are there for the birth and the follow-up afterwards. That is the reason a lot of women go to obstetricians, even though they don't really need to, to have that continuity of care. AdvertisementAdvertisement The general manager of the Northern Beaches Health Service, Frank Bazik, said he was not prepared to give his final approval to the project before having all maternity services reviewed to determine which birthing model was appropriate for each hospital. Insisting that it had been deferred for only two to three months, Mr Bazik said there had been no safety concerns about the program. There have been some meetings with the obstetricians about this proposed model and they are supportive of it. However, the Herald understands that staff have been told that severe budget problems at the health service were a factor in the decision. Sally Tracy, an associate professor of midwifery practice development at the University of Technology, Sydney, said there was no reason to defer the program. I have no doubt that they have been bullied into not allowing this service to go ahead . Clearly, there are people who have vested interests in this, who do not want to see a service where women go to midwives. --- Doctors irked at lack of say in midwifery talks September 2, 2005 A rift has emerged between the NSW Government and the Australian Medical Association, which says it has been shut out of consultations on the development of maternity services. So deep is the division that the association has begun a vigorous campaign to reclaim ground in the debate. Andrew Pesce, an obstetrician and senior member of the association, told the Herald that while a recent review of six international studies had found some modest benefits from midwife-assisted births, it had also found significant risks. It showed an 83 per cent increase in the risk of infant mortality, he said. Dr Pesce said NSW Health had made a policy decision to exclude the association from consultations, presumably because they know how we will respond. But Kathleen Fahy, the dean of midwifery at the University of Newcastle, and the co-author of the review, Denis Walsh, have disputed Dr Pesce's interpretation. AdvertisementAdvertisement The review, by the international non-profit group the Cochrane Collaboration, had not found a significant difference in baby deaths and it is less then honest of Dr Pesce . to imply that it did, Professor Fahy said. After reviewing each of the studies included in the review she found 60 per cent of women who were supposed to give birth assisted by a midwife had been transferred to a hospital. Yet all the baby deaths were blamed on the birthing centres, even if the baby died hours, days or months after transfer to medical care. Most deaths were due to gross prematurity, gross abnormality or an unexplained stillbirth, she said. Their [the doctors'] fear is that midwives will get a Medicare number and set up in competition and women may choose midwives as their primary care providers rather than doctors. The association's NSW president, John Gullotta, said yesterday that he had also received no response
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let' women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and intending to go into independent practice, so am availing myself of every extra learning opportunity available. A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime), attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel much more comfortable about the possibility now. I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle this situation. What a shame and potential danger it is if these skills fall by the way. Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else. Regards, Miriam (FUSA) --- Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also been a midwife long enough to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, and delivered a few myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at least they were mostly seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective C/S (nearly 21 years old now!) was for primip breech, although I was given the choice of vaginal birth, I knew just what that would entail within the large unit that I was obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, and I chose not to go there, however at that time there was no question that I would not be able to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not so. A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who was lucky enough to see a less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed Melissa :-)) and she chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to be induced on the 'right' day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that we really don't see them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who does do them does such a horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S rather than submit to his handling.( you can probably guess that one too Mel!) It is sad that student midwives today will not learn these essential skills within the hospital system. Personally I feel confident that I can handle an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next generation are going to cope with this, there is so much fear of what is really only a different variety of birth, in the same way that any 'different' presentation is. Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie Banks speak, watched her video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers will know that this is true Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling having just come to Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). It was a real shock to me to see how much all births are seen as being the doctor's property. One of my first births here was in a small hospital and I called the GP as per protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands and proceeded to rush in, without even washing his hands and virtually pushed me out of the way! I looked at him with horror and said quietly I think I may as well finish the job now don't you? He did step back and let me finish. Some years later he admitted that he had learned a few things from me - one of which was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver the shoulders! They were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby out, it drove me mad. When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician (often a male authority figure) telling them their baby is in danger - they will chose to protect their child because as a mother that is their instinct. An example of this happened to me just this week - the head was well and truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal distress) but OB insisted on listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about 100, and he took over from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for the baby as I knew there had been no compromise throughout and that he would be born within minutes, but within the system I am obliged to defer to the doctor's judgement, whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know well what happens when one tries to argue!! I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy - it is very different here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep pushing for midwifery led care. I feel that much of the problem lies with how we are percieved and presented within this system. We are seen as being secondary and forced into a 'waitress' role, while doctors are glorified as being all-knowing experts. I have spent ages discussing things with couples only to have everything overturned by a 5 minute doctor appointment. Nice to have your input on the list
