[PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
Comrades Removal of Clause 14 (Democratic Centtralism) is suicidal. This is clause encompasses democratic centralism and collective leadership intended to uproot factionalism and ensure unity and cohesion. Its violation does not warrant its removal from Disciplinary Code. Comrades should remember annual confereces do not adopt amendments but make recommendations to the supreme organ (highest decision making) of the Party - the National Congress- for adoption. Failing which, such amendments are unconstitutional, invalid and illegal Izwe Lethu! Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:55:50 PM GMT+0200 Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference Tshwane lobbies your support. In the coming conference. -- Forwarded message -- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Date: Aug 4, 2014 10:10 PM Subject: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference To: Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, DSG @ PAC d...@pac.org.za Cc: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, Tumediso Modise tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, mashao reuben mashao.reu...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, Albert Mokoena mokoen...@workmail.co.za Dear Secretary General In response to the updated conference notice dated 01 August 2014, the Tshwane Region hereby submit the proposed resolution for the Annual National Conference of 26 - 28 September 2014. The region submits two discussion documents (proposed resolutions) namely *Delegation of Authority Code* and* Public Office Secondment Code*. The region believes that the lack of regulations around this area is main source of conflict. Furthermore, the Tshwane Region hereby adds an agenda point:* removal of democratic centralism section (clause 14) of the disciplinary code*. The region believes that this clause can be replaced be a new code such as the delegation of authority code. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba Tshwane Regional Chairman -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Dear Smal Zondo The main problem here is that you clowns running the party and hope you will get the PAC progressive. You say Mphahlele is out and I think you suggest the SG is this messiah of whom I am told he is supporting you financially and hence you don't suggest he is not out. Unfortunately a lot of us were never raised in an environment where seeking favours from the powers might is the order of the day. Just read the correspondences written by your SG and you have an answer under your nose and stop behaving like those opportunists who think this story around September conference will leverage them to assume leadership whom I can undoubtly see is for personal gratification. Lastly if you have observed the last elections circus you will know that even parties contesting regional elections don't display such a joke. Before you say anything around what you have raised you better know there is no dignity in people used as pawns in a just cause. Izwe Lethu On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:16 AM, Smoll Zondo smollzo...@gmail.com wrote: Izwe Lethu The honest truth is that in PAC everyone speaks a lot of things here in media while doing nothing at all for the community or masses of Azania. Personally I am of the view that only cowards are within the rank and file of the PAC and its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we attack. The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? Regards, Thabani Zondo Tel : 072 020 5127 smollzo...@gmail.com HEAD OFFICE CENTENARY BUILDING CHURCH SQUARE PRETORIA 0001 TEL: 012 323 9892 FAX: 086 617 7851 PO BOX 5981 PRETORIA 0001 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From:payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com;
RE: [PAYCO] Re: focused practical action
Izwe lethu M’Afrika Our understanding of practical actions that must be undertaken to salvage PAC implies that we should forge principled unity by identifying and drawing all those who held and continue to hold PAC membership into one political roof. What will be the rational of excluding former PAC members who formed PAM? If Comrades were keen to draw Don Mattera, Pitiki ka Ntuli and some leaders who publicly resigned from PAC active politics and leadership roles, why exclude PAC? Shangu lashu Nkrumah From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] Sent: 06 September 2014 07:23 PM To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Cc: Malesela Mogashwa; po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; david mabitsela; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; Mapula Nkoana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; Mbuyiselo Kantso; mangalisomdhl...@gmail.com; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; d...@pac.org.za; ic...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Re: focused practical action Is PAM involved in PAC matters? I do not agree with this one. On 05 Sep 2014 2:37 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Add Charge-in on behalf of PAM! From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 05 September 2014 02:31 PM To: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: Mbuyiselo Kantso; payco@googlegroups.com; d...@pac.org.za; richardma...@yahoo.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; znyam...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; mrfihl...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; 'Mapula Nkoana'; 'david mabitsela'; mangalisomdhl...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; icuworkersun...@gmail.com; ic...@telkomsa.net; p...@vodamail.co.za; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; po...@yahoo.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Subject: [PAYCO] Re: focused practical action Comrades, The only way of making this work is to commit and honour promises we make. If we schedule a meeting, everyone who said will attend must be there and spend the duration of the meeting. Its hightime we make PAC priority. We must stop this thing of making promises and send apologies on an eleventh hour. The process plan with clear milestones has to be in place to ensure that we achieve what we seek to achieve. This might look insignificant but its these small things that have been setting PAC aback. Izwe lethu! Linda Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! _ From: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:45:03 +0200 To: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za Cc: Mbuyiselo Kantsombuyigan...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com; d...@pac.org.za; richardma...@yahoo.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; znyam...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; mrfihl...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; 'Mapula Nkoana'mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 'david mabitsela'mabitselada...@gmail.com; mangalisomdhl...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; icuworkersun...@gmail.com; ic...@telkomsa.net; p...@vodamail.co.za; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; po...@yahoo.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Subject: Re: focused practical action from our side in the Western Cape, the majority branches has mandated the PEC to do the work. I will ensure that they (PEC) communicate with all PECs (that include the parallel structures). On your side please talk to your RECs/PECs to be supportive and come on board. As Cde Kgagudi said that initial meeting of all these leaders must decide on the Mediation Team and Plan of Action. Myself (Ndamane), Kgagudi, Ndebele, Gantsu, Fihla let us assist this process to ensure it does rollout and all relevant interest groups and structures are on board. iAfrika On 2014-09-05 12:18, Linda Ndebele wrote: Comrades, The critical question now is who will bell the cat? Who will convene the mediation team? Who should form part of mediation team? How would the whole exercise
Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
The Disciplinary Code is a policy not Constitution or a constitutional clause. Therefore, within the Annual National Conference competence. The proposal is not anti democratic centralism. It in fact reinforces it. On Sep 8, 2014 8:07 AM, chargein...@gmail.com wrote: Comrades Removal of Clause 14 (Democratic Centtralism) is suicidal. This is clause encompasses democratic centralism and collective leadership intended to uproot factionalism and ensure unity and cohesion. Its violation does not warrant its removal from Disciplinary Code. Comrades should remember annual confereces do not adopt amendments but make recommendations to the supreme organ (highest decision making) of the Party - the National Congress- for adoption. Failing which, such amendments are unconstitutional, invalid and illegal Izwe Lethu! Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:55:50 PM GMT+0200 Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference Tshwane lobbies your support. In the coming conference. -- Forwarded message -- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Date: Aug 4, 2014 10:10 PM Subject: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference To: Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, DSG @ PAC d...@pac.org.za Cc: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, Tumediso Modise tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, mashao reuben mashao.reu...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, Albert Mokoena mokoen...@workmail.co.za Dear Secretary General In response to the updated conference notice dated 01 August 2014, the Tshwane Region hereby submit the proposed resolution for the Annual National Conference of 26 - 28 September 2014. The region submits two discussion documents (proposed resolutions) namely *Delegation of Authority Code* and* Public Office Secondment Code*. The region believes that the lack of regulations around this area is main source of conflict. Furthermore, the Tshwane Region hereby adds an agenda point:* removal of democratic centralism section (clause 14) of the disciplinary code*. The region believes that this clause can be replaced be a new code such as the delegation of authority code. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba Tshwane Regional Chairman -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[PAYCO] Re: focused practical action
Comrades, People who are genuine about the unity of the Party are not concerned about having unity talks with PAM. Currently, there are ongoing unity talks between PAM and PAC in Eastern Cape and Western Cape. The recent unity talk between PAM and PAC led to PAM members invited to attend yesterday's reburrial in Lady Frere of PAC cadre who died in exile. The reburial was addressed, among others, by PAC President Mphethi, comrade Makwetu, and Teenage Nyhontso. Unity of PAC and PAM was emphasized at reburial by all speakers. It must be noted that not all members of both PAC and PAM want unity of two parties for different reeasons best known to them. It must be also noted that many PAM members are skeptical about these unity talks because of our past experience with some PAC membes. I personally survived many assassination attempts in the process. We are taking a serious risk about these talks having that in our subconscious mind because of love for PAC. Our love for PAC may blind us to fall in a trap of finding ourselves one day in Dingane's kraal. That is why we treat this talks as a minefield. We are not prepared to rejoin PAC as individuals. We left PAC not as individuals. If our position is not acceptable to PAC, we are willing to end the talks before we enter to unholy marriage of convimience. PAM can survive on its own in SA politics. EFF proved many skeptics wrong in this regards. PAM can do it too. Izwe Lethu! -- Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com To: Mbulelo Raymond mrfihl...@gmail.com Cc: isa...@diplomatsa.co.za,Johnson Mlambo river.mla...@telkomsa.net,tyamza...@yahoo.com,po...@yahoo.com,david mabitsela mabitselada...@gmail.com,pasmapresid...@gmail.com,joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com,pacmogalec...@gmail.com,bulanng...@gmail.com,znyam...@gmail.com,tumimod...@hotmail.co.za,payco@googlegroups.com,takalaniligeg...@gmail.com,Mapula Nkoana mapulankoan...@gmail.com,sndam...@pac-cape.org.za,Malesela Mogashwa icuworkersun...@gmail.com,phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za,pacaza...@webmail.co.za,patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za,dud...@webmail.co.za,pac.nc...@gmail.com,pactshwanereg...@gmail.com,Mbuyiselo Kantso mbuyigan...@yahoo.com,nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com,mangalisomdhl...@gmail.com,p...@vodamail.co.za,d...@pac.org.za,ic...@telkomsa.net,richardma...@yahoo.com,sbusiso.x...@gmail.com,mbind...@gmail.com,tnta...@webmail.co.za,jtrimblefam...@hotmail.com,paroot...@yahoo.com,ntsiemohl...@gmail.com,Vusi Mahlangu vemahla...@gmail.com,dumisani...@gmail.com,Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com Date: Monday, September 8, 2014 12:57:48 PM GMT+0200 Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Re: focused practical action M’Afrika Fihla We should not fall victim of pulling barriers by design or default which possesses the potential to arrest any and all forward movement to unite and rebuild the PAC. If comrades agree to return and re-join PAC, they complete PAC membership forms as individual persons! Some of the comrades in PAM argue they were coerced out of PAC! Some advance ideological reasons to explain their movement to PAM! While others were Nicodemiously suspended and expelled un-constitutionally! The notion “we have joined the PAC as individuals and not as groups” cannot necessarily apply if we focus on the merits and demerits of what compelled some if not most former PAC comrades to PAM. If we can reconcile and unite with those who have done the worse damage and erosion of PAC politically and organisationally, these characters are also forming and fuelling feuding in the PAC, why can’t we close ranks with former PAC comrades in PAM? And it can’t be refuted that PAM is a PAC splinter group, hence the logic of their inclusion in the party unification process. Addressing your question directly, I know Charge-in has been consistent in Payco google group and has demonstrated keen interested on the resolution of PAC Affairs hence the proposal, if it’s not Charge-in, then it can any comrade from PAM, who shall play the role to draw PAM comrades into the fold, the thrust is PAC Must Unite and Advance its Revolutionary Pan Africanist Agenda. If you are not comfortable with Charge-in, then you can recommend any comrade! What is Supreme is to Achieve The Principled Unity and RE-Organisation of PAC! Shango lashu Nkrumah From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2014 12:19 PM To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Cc: isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; Johnson Mlambo; tyamza...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; david mabitsela; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Mapula Nkoana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; Malesela Mogashwa; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za;
Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
Comrade Sbusiso Xaba Does this mean, you insist those few branches in Tshwane Region are going ahead to attend Moloto (Less than Five) NEC Members grouping Bloemfontein September Conference. When your peers in the PAC are raising the notion that PAC cannot afford parallel and conflicting events which fuels feuding and weakens the PAC? Are you arrogantly saying to all of us PAC Branches and Members who want a united and focused PAC we are insane? It was not long that Comrade Linda Ndebele wrote the following:- Allow me to quote Lembede comrades for motivation purposes The philosophy of action must be the corner-stone of our policyIn our ranks we have men and women of high talent and ability. Our poor, disorderly position is not accasioned by lack of talent, but (a) by lack of scientific organisation and utilisation of that talent, (b) by lack of will-power. Africans! Our salvation lies in hard and systematic work! Anton Lembede writing on Umthetheleli wa Bantu. What are you going to loose if Tshwane Region joins many other branches and members who will not be attending the Moloto (Less than Five) NEC Members grouping Bloemfontein September Conference? It is high time we must put the interests of PAC above our personal interests, Ma-aforika! Izwe-lethu Ndima On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 8:07 AM, chargein...@gmail.com wrote: Comrades Removal of Clause 14 (Democratic Centtralism) is suicidal. This is clause encompasses democratic centralism and collective leadership intended to uproot factionalism and ensure unity and cohesion. Its violation does not warrant its removal from Disciplinary Code. Comrades should remember annual confereces do not adopt amendments but make recommendations to the supreme organ (highest decision making) of the Party - the National Congress- for adoption. Failing which, such amendments are unconstitutional, invalid and illegal Izwe Lethu! Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:55:50 PM GMT+0200 Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference Tshwane lobbies your support. In the coming conference. -- Forwarded message -- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Date: Aug 4, 2014 10:10 PM Subject: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference To: Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, DSG @ PAC d...@pac.org.za Cc: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, Tumediso Modise tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, mashao reuben mashao.reu...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, Albert Mokoena mokoen...@workmail.co.za Dear Secretary General In response to the updated conference notice dated 01 August 2014, the Tshwane Region hereby submit the proposed resolution for the Annual National Conference of 26 - 28 September 2014. The region submits two discussion documents (proposed resolutions) namely *Delegation of Authority Code* and* Public Office Secondment Code*. The region believes that the lack of regulations around this area is main source of conflict. Furthermore, the Tshwane Region hereby adds an agenda point:* removal of democratic centralism section (clause 14) of the disciplinary code*. The region believes that this clause can be replaced be a new code such as the delegation of authority code. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba Tshwane Regional Chairman -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For
Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
Comrade Ndima Since the unbanning of the PAC I have never come cross the PAC being in this pathetic state of affairs especially towards congresses. Even if there were differences in structures and NEC itself our congresses showed maturity of members and NEC towards them. Any normal human beings especially leading a party like PAC they will know that first you cannot organise a conference when there is no presidency and other elected NEC members attending. On the other hand the SG is an expelled member under the decree by his own confirmed and once regularly paraded president in the name of comrade Mphethi. On the 7th March 2014 he Narius Moloto went to court on two issues and that was first to ask the court to declare Mphethi as the party leader and Mbuyiswa Gantsu to be replaced by Narius Moloto as authorised person in the IEC. Today their once touted President has invoked the decree they are so embarrassed that he Moloto cant take it instead he fills he is above everyone but I understand humiliation he is going through. Any self-respecting branch, region or structure will never attempt to associate itself with such an arrangement. We as the Sedibeng/Vaal Region will never even entertain anything about the so called Bloemfontein Conference. Comrade Mlambo told us that during the launch of the two manifestos prior elections he sent Cde, Letlapa and Narius asking them that he suggest the launches must not be done separately. He said Cde Teenage told him that he appreciate the request but he think it came too late. Then he sent Cde Narius text him asking if the request was from him and when Cde Mlambo confirmed it was him Cde Narius just ignored him. But like I said it will be unfair to blame Cde Narius for all this mess but rather blame those who see logic and find sense in this chaos. It is not surprising when you see the behaviour of other comrades because even when the Gauteng Provincial Conference was organised you could laugh your stomach out, if you hear how things were done and how it was dismissed by the same people who organised it. The same comrades who are attending these kind of gatherings they hope they will use a crisis to emerge as leaders and it wont work. Just like the Birchwood Conference whether you are a member in good standing or not or a new member or a ghost all will be accepted as long as the people can fill the attendance register that will go in court papers for the November appeal. In short it will be all those who will attend such a conference no matter how small who will be carrying the crusade high not the SG. So let them close their ears and eyes and attend what is theirs and we continue to explore stabilising the party beyond the jamboree! IZWE LETHU! On Monday, September 8, 2014 3:02 PM, Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com wrote: Comrade Sbusiso Xaba Does this mean, you insist those few branches in Tshwane Region are going ahead to attend Moloto (Less than Five) NEC Members grouping Bloemfontein September Conference. When your peers in the PAC are raising the notion that PAC cannot afford parallel and conflicting events which fuels feuding and weakens the PAC? Are you arrogantly saying to all of us PAC Branches and Members who want a united and focused PAC we are insane? It was not long that Comrade Linda Ndebele wrote the following:- Allow me to quote Lembede comrades for motivation purposes The philosophy of action must be the corner-stone of our policyIn our ranks we have men and women of high talent and ability. Our poor, disorderly position is not accasioned by lack of talent, but (a) by lack of scientific organisation and utilisation of that talent, (b) by lack of will-power. Africans! Our salvation lies in hard and systematic work! Anton Lembede writing on Umthetheleli wa Bantu. What are you going to loose if Tshwane Region joins many other branches and members who will not be attending the Moloto (Less than Five) NEC Members grouping Bloemfontein September Conference? It is high time we must put the interests of PAC above our personal interests, Ma-aforika! Izwe-lethu Ndima On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 8:07 AM, chargein...@gmail.com wrote: Comrades Removal of Clause 14 (Democratic Centtralism) is suicidal. This is clause encompasses democratic centralism and collective leadership intended to uproot factionalism and ensure unity and cohesion. Its violation does not warrant its removal from Disciplinary Code. Comrades should remember annual confereces do not adopt amendments but make recommendations to the supreme organ (highest decision making) of the Party - the National Congress- for adoption. Failing which, such amendments are unconstitutional, invalid and illegal Izwe Lethu! Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:55:50 PM GMT+0200 Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd:
[PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
Comrades My point is proposed amendments on Asic Documents can be discussed in a conference but final amendments can only be forwarded to congress for adoption. Constitution stipulates which documents can be adopted in a conference (refer to clause 5.10 of constituton). Amenments to DC are not included in the clause. Amendments to PAC Basic Documents (Constitution, Manifesto Disciplinary Code) cannot be adopted by a lower structure, the conference. But by supreme- national congress- highest decision body with supervisory, deliberative, and determinative powers to lay down policies and programmes of PAC and its decisions are binding on all members (clause 5.1 5.3). That is why I say such adoption of amengments by lower structure is unconstitutional. If you disagree, quote the clause which empowers conference to do so. Adoption of amendments in a conference is clear violation of PAC Constitution which stipulates powers of all PAC structures. Izwe Lethu! -- Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, September 8, 2014 2:04:54 PM GMT+0200 Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference The Disciplinary Code is a policy not Constitution or a constitutional clause. Therefore, within the Annual National Conference competence. The proposal is not anti democratic centralism. It in fact reinforces it. On Sep 8, 2014 8:07 AM, chargein...@gmail.com wrote: Comrades Removal of Clause 14 (Democratic Centtralism) is suicidal. This is clause encompasses democratic centralism and collective leadership intended to uproot factionalism and ensure unity and cohesion. Its violation does not warrant its removal from Disciplinary Code. Comrades should remember annual confereces do not adopt amendments but make recommendations to the supreme organ (highest decision making) of the Party - the National Congress- for adoption. Failing which, such amendments are unconstitutional, invalid and illegal Izwe Lethu! Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:55:50 PM GMT+0200 Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference Tshwane lobbies your support. In the coming conference. -- Forwarded message -- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Date: Aug 4, 2014 10:10 PM Subject: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference To: Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, DSG @ PAC d...@pac.org.za Cc: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, Tumediso Modise tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, mashao reuben mashao.reu...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, Albert Mokoena mokoen...@workmail.co.za Dear Secretary General In response to the updated conference notice dated 01 August 2014, the Tshwane Region hereby submit the proposed resolution for the Annual National Conference of 26 - 28 September 2014. The region submits two discussion documents (proposed resolutions) namely *Delegation of Authority Code* and* Public Office Secondment Code*. The region believes that the lack of regulations around this area is main source of conflict. Furthermore, the Tshwane Region hereby adds an agenda point:* removal of democratic centralism section (clause 14) of the disciplinary code*. The region believes that this clause can be replaced be a new code such as the delegation of authority code. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba Tshwane Regional Chairman -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed
Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
It is nice to hide behind high emotional loaded language. Especially, when wanting to blackmail or intimidate. I will entertain neither emotional blackmail nor attempted intimidation. We are not much interested in personality cults either. Where are these many branches, You're talking about, Ndima? Branches that only told you? Why those branches have not attempted to persuade Tshwane and branches in Tshwane (no matter the number )? Engage us structural. those who have engage us found us persuadable and persuading. The view of Tshwane is unwavering. On the issues that should top the agenda of the conference. Yes, Bloemfontein Conference and other Annual Conferences that would follow in coming years. We are not married to our proposal or recommended solutions. We will subordinate our ideas to superior ideas and we expect other members and branches to do so. We are sure that the Party must subdue self interest to its interest. We are under no illusion about the state of the Party, which is not the new state. Same state prevailing since the sixties. We do not expect a perfect Annual Conferences. Nevertheless, we make our small contribution. I must say this in closing, Tshwane passionately hates the decree. We are not reasonable on the owners of the decree. Decree is our enemy. It is unconstitutional not only in it application but its existence. It continue to manifest itself as the biggest threat to the party. Therefore, we will never recognise it. We are moving for transparent decision making, clarity of roles and structure seconding members not individual (including individual office bearer) - this is democratic centralism not dictatorship labeled democratic centralism. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba On Sep 8, 2014 4:52 PM, 'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com wrote: Comrade Ndima Since the unbanning of the PAC I have never come cross the PAC being in this pathetic state of affairs especially towards congresses. Even if there were differences in structures and NEC itself our congresses showed maturity of members and NEC towards them. Any normal human beings especially leading a party like PAC they will know that first you cannot organise a conference when there is no presidency and other elected NEC members attending. On the other hand the SG is an expelled member under the decree by his own confirmed and once regularly paraded president in the name of comrade Mphethi. On the 7th March 2014 he Narius Moloto went to court on two issues and that was first to ask the court to declare Mphethi as the party leader and Mbuyiswa Gantsu to be replaced by Narius Moloto as authorised person in the IEC. Today their once touted President has invoked the decree they are so embarrassed that he Moloto cant take it instead he fills he is above everyone but I understand humiliation he is going through. Any self-respecting branch, region or structure will never attempt to associate itself with such an arrangement. We as the Sedibeng/Vaal Region will never even entertain anything about the so called Bloemfontein Conference. Comrade Mlambo told us that during the launch of the two manifestos prior elections he sent Cde, Letlapa and Narius asking them that he suggest the launches must not be done separately. He said Cde Teenage told him that he appreciate the request but he think it came too late. Then he sent Cde Narius text him asking if the request was from him and when Cde Mlambo confirmed it was him Cde Narius just ignored him. But like I said it will be unfair to blame Cde Narius for all this mess but rather blame those who see logic and find sense in this chaos. It is not surprising when you see the behaviour of other comrades because even when the Gauteng Provincial Conference was organised you could laugh your stomach out, if you hear how things were done and how it was dismissed by the same people who organised it. The same comrades who are attending these kind of gatherings they hope they will use a crisis to emerge as leaders and it wont work. Just like the Birchwood Conference whether you are a member in good standing or not or a new member or a ghost all will be accepted as long as the people can fill the attendance register that will go in court papers for the November appeal. In short it will be all those who will attend such a conference no matter how small who will be carrying the crusade high not the SG. So let them close their ears and eyes and attend what is theirs and we continue to explore stabilising the party beyond the jamboree! IZWE LETHU! On Monday, September 8, 2014 3:02 PM, Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com wrote: Comrade Sbusiso Xaba Does this mean, you insist those few branches in Tshwane Region are going ahead to attend Moloto (Less than Five) NEC Members grouping Bloemfontein September Conference. When your peers in the PAC are raising the notion that PAC cannot afford
