RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe lethu Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a strong Party” Izwe lethu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the African Emancipation! From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi' Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference There is one stubborn truth that most people do not realise and it is this: “You cannot give anybody something that you do not have. You must have it first. If you do not have love, you can never give love to anybody. Likewise, when you give a positive a label ( description or attribute) to someone else, it means you also possess that attribute. When you attribute or ascribe a certain negative trait, attribute, quality or tendency to another person, you do that because you possess that trait, attribute, quality or tendency yourself, otherwise how would you recognise it in others?” Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a strong Party. Izwe lethu. Ngila Muendane. From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:15 PM To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika Nkrumah please poqo I am begging you, let us leave this matter because it adds no value to the future of the PAC. FIHLA On 11 Sep 2014 6:59 PM, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Conrade Fihla You are deliberately distorting everything I wrote and argued. It is evident you are personalising issues and also driving a character assasination. You have dismally failed to prove your claims that I did
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan Africanist perspective. I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are back in the PAC and are active. Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters Boycott Conference. We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. IAfrika Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 To: 'Mbuyiselo Kantso'mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'mnd...@yahoo.com; 'Kutie Thondlana'kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08'mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac'ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane'rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 'Xola Tyamzashe'tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 'Phumzile Nomnga'phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; 'Sbusiso Xaba'sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; 'L Lekgwathi'0825164...@vodamail.co.za; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; 'Nakaphala Bauba'nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 'justice mvakali'mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Shango lashu M’Afrika PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, Birchwood 2013 National Conference organised by the same NEC comrades organising the Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference, has dismally failed to unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a unity-and-revolutionary path. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a manner never seen in the history of the PAC, Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an untenable organisational state. Boycott and denounce Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! Boycott! Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members! Unite! Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference! Forward Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more divided. To defeat factionalism and divisions, It is my strongest believe that PAC branches and members must achieve principled unity. And those former PAC members who left PAC to form PAM must return to the PAC, those PAC members who were suspended should also return to the PAC; We must jointly and equally wage the struggle
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@gmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; mop...@pac.org.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE'; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; 'Vusi Mahlangu' Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika Nkrumah, with due respect son of the soil, I would not like us to engage in rhetoric. All I was responding to are your unfounded sweeping statements based on conjecture. You know nothing or very little about what is happening concerning our comrades in prison. Hence I am inviting you to join me at your earliest convince on a visit to Boksburg prison.To quote what you wrote, we have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of incarcerated APLA combatants. You go even further to say None of the two existing APLAMVA NEC s have been seen in action demanding the immediate release of these comrades. But today, APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failures of the PAC NEC members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits. I am not sure what it is that I am misunderstanding in this sweeping and judgemental statement. What you are actually saying here is that you are the only one who has a high moral ground to point a finger at the wrongs of the NEC members. To you, the rest of us except yourself are hypocrites and therefore have no right to participate in debates about PAC issues. You unfortunately when you have not visited any of these comrades in prison and you instead want to use their plight for political point scoring. My advice to you son of the soil is that instead of wright ing about the comrades in prison, please visit them, please go there and support them. For your information, I will as I am always doing, be visiting the comrades in Boksburg prison this weekend. Accept my regards Fihla Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Date:10/09/2014 10:41 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Mbulelo Raymond' , payco@googlegroups.com Cc: nnyq...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, i...@bataufc.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, wgaj...@gmail.com, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, tnta...@webmail.co.za, dud...@webmail.co.za, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, znyam...@gmail.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, payco@googlegroups.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, bulanng...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, monyanepin...@gmail.com, ad...@pac.org.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, lea...@hotmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, po...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dumisani...@gmail.com, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, jntab...@gmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, mop...@pac.org.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, s...@pac.org.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, digashuma...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pac.nc...@gmail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE' , kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Masoga Do not personalise the issues raised by attack me in person address issues raised directly. If there is justification to attend Bloemfontein September National Conference constructively share with us and persuade to attend! We have presented a political case that drawing from Birchwood and other events that instead of unity of PAC, we have seen Birchwood 2013 Conference deepening divisions and the high rate of disintegration of PAC! Hence, any parallel structure organising parallel events solidifies internal party feuding, factionalism therefore disintegration of the PAC. First aspect I am a paid up PAC member belonging to a branch; Secondly aspect, This is an open campaign against events which aims to further divisions and the disintegration of the PAC, like Birchwood 2013 Conference; Thirdly aspect, we must seek to re-mobilise all PAC members and branches under one roof, if former PAC comrades who formed PAM agree to return to PAC and form part of the process to rebuild and re-organise PAC, why should they be excluded? Fourth aspect, the Boycott the Bloemfontein Conference aims at defeating factionalism and mobilise PAC branches and members to an inclusive unifying national conference of PAC; Fifth aspect, I have not condemn any comrades who advocates any differing view, if there is please specify his/her name! Sixth aspect, We encourage and mobilise PAC branches and members to start unification process by organising inclusive regional and provincial meetings to defeat factionalism and disunity! Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mphi...@gmail.com Sent: 11 September 2014 11:12 AM To: payco@googlegroups.com; 'Mbuyiselo Kantso' Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08'; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac'; wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane'; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 'Tumediso Modise'; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; Simphiwe Nofuma; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; generalsecret...@sacwu.org.za Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan Africanist perspective. I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are back in the PAC and are active. Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters Boycott Conference. We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. IAfrika Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device _ From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 +0200 To: 'Mbuyiselo Kantso'mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'mnd...@yahoo.com; 'Kutie Thondlana'kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08'mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac'ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane'rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 'Xola Tyamzashe'tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Masoga Do not display arrogance if you are serious about unity in the PAC, the statement you made that is We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us.. It is a sign of arrogance and it further create us and them. No-one bedevilled you when you were organising a National Caucus, then respect other comrades views and proposals. Izwe lethu Ndima On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, mphi...@gmail.com wrote: Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan Africanist perspective. I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are back in the PAC and are active. Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters Boycott Conference. We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. IAfrika Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -- *From: * Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com *Date: *Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 +0200 *To: *'Mbuyiselo Kantso'mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com *Cc: *'Ndade Mxunya'mnd...@yahoo.com; 'Kutie Thondlana' kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08' mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac' ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane' rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 'Xola Tyamzashe' tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 'Phumzile Nomnga'phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; 'Sbusiso Xaba' sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; 'L Lekgwathi'0825164...@vodamail.co.za; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; 'Nakaphala Bauba'nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 'justice mvakali'mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com *Subject: *RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Shango lashu M’Afrika PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, *Birchwood 2013 National Conference* organised by the same NEC comrades organising the *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference*, *has dismally failed to unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a unity-and-revolutionary path*. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a manner never seen in the history of the PAC, *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference* will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an untenable organisational state. Boycott and denounce *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! * *Boycott!* *Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members!* * Unite!* *Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference!* *Forward * Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Greetings Cdes We have to accept and realise from all our points of conviction that the same area of convergence will be our first victory. Speculations and insecurities about the intentions of one or the other are probably our biggest obstacle. Open palm salute! On Tue, 9/9/14, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 6:34 PM Izwe lethu Once more, this debate further confirms that the September National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two tongued characters! For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are highly divided and some are hiding their subjective interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that in as much as Cde Letlapa, Cde Mpethi and Cde Moloto, might have made serious political blunders/errors, they cannot be made to be 100% liable for the entire divisions and feuding thus factionalism in the PAC. Another example, there is a PAC PEC Member in Mpumalanga organising non-members to complete forms and increase numbers for the September National Conference, are we going to blame the put this corrupt activities on either Moloto NEC Grouping for this while exanorating and calling the very same Mpumalanga PEC member a comrade. There are many examples, we can use to show that deeply, the PAC branches and members particularly comrades who are at the forefront of everything to be directly responsible and are hypocrites. We have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of Incarcerated APLA combatants. Surely comrades, neither Cde Letlapa nor Cde Mpethi nor Cde Moloto is stopping your branches and members to picket and organise mass protests demanding the immediate release of all the unprisoned APLA conrades. None of the two existing APLAMVA NECs have been seen in action demanding tye release of these comrades, but today APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failers of the PAC NEC Members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits, as shocking and also this explains the deep seated problems we are facing in the PAC. All PECs and RECs including all component structures are docile, dormant and moribound, relatively excluding PASMA with a serious qualification! There are and has been so many caucases ever since 2007/8 to date, but every caucuse have yielded no tangible results but the situation has worsened because the current crop of some PAC members and those with leadeship ambitions are highly unprincipled and determined to break any law just to secure positions be they at the REC, PEC and NEC. PAC Branches and members have abondaned principles and the correct political line as enshrined in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto including all Basic Documents. A lot in the party is from branch level to members to national leadership is totally wrong and rotten! Gone are the principles in the PAC, as others argue to justify their conduct they claim that people do eat principles. First task should be PAC
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrades, Can we elavate the level of discourse to focus on broader party building issues as opposed to narrow individual interests, personalities and factional positions. To a certain extent you reach a point of embarrassment when you follow the line of debate. Its even worse when its done by seasoned party cadres whom we have utmost respect and expect nothing other than guidance and decisive leadership. I humbly request cadres. Izwe lethu! Linda Ndebele Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: 'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:59:52 To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Greetings Cdes We have to accept and realise from all our points of conviction that the same area of convergence will be our first victory. Speculations and insecurities about the intentions of one or the other are probably our biggest obstacle. Open palm salute! On Tue, 9/9/14, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 6:34 PM Izwe lethu Once more, this debate further confirms that the September National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two tongued characters! For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are highly divided and some are hiding their subjective interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that in as much as Cde Letlapa
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An *All Inclusive* *Consultative Conference* may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not take us anywhere. All
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. Fihla Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Mbuyiselo Kantso Date:04/09/2014 08:41 (GMT+02:00) To: payco@googlegroups.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
and its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we attack. The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? Regards, Thabani Zondo Tel : 072 020 5127 smollzo...@gmail.com HEAD OFFICE CENTENARY BUILDING CHURCH SQUARE PRETORIA 0001 TEL: 012 323 9892 FAX: 086 617 7851 PO BOX 5981 PRETORIA 0001 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From:payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. Fihla Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Mbuyiselo Kantso Date:04/09/2014 08:41 (GMT+02:00) To: payco@googlegroups.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe Lethu The honest truth is that in PAC everyone speaks a lot of things here in media while doing nothing at all for the community or masses of Azania. Personally I am of the view that only cowards are within the rank and file of the PAC and its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we attack. The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? *Regards,* *Thabani Zondo* *Tel : 072 020 5127* *smollzo...@gmail.com smollzo...@gmail.com* *HEAD OFFICE* *CENTENARY BUILDING* *CHURCH SQUARE* *PRETORIA* *0001* *TEL: 012 323 9892* *FAX: 086 617 7851* *PO BOX 5981* *PRETORIA* *0001* On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Morning Cde. Raymond I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of time and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is since the Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its silence in the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG because if people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and suspensions and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough luck for PAC members and its future. Personally I hate people who like claiming things that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has developed capacity to operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak revolutionary theory to say the least. There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a revolutionary party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al what we are consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply see what works and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 years there as an SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, disorder, weekly suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of party operations. In short it does not matter how right he says things will remain the same. Izwe Lethu! On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Izwe lethu M'Afrika Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! Shango lashu Nkrumah -- Forwarded message -- From: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM Subject: attack on party annual conference To: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, Cape paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, smollzo...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, Delano Maloney dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1718 bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, Michael Muendane m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, Mohlomphegi Mphahlele mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, Pinkie Monyane monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, mnd...@yahoo.com, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com Cc: njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, tnta...@webmail.co.za Izwe Lethu Please find the attached for your attention. Pass the message to other structure and members. Regards PAC of Azania Tel
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.comcelenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.comnjabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.netvu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.comdumisani...@gmail.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Morning Cde. Raymond I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of time and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is since the Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its silence in the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG because if people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and suspensions and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough luck for PAC members and its future. Personally I hate people who like claiming things that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has developed capacity to operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak revolutionary theory to say the least. There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a revolutionary party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al what we are consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply see what works and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 years there as an SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, disorder, weekly suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of party operations. In short it does not matter how right he says things will remain the same. Izwe Lethu! On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Izwe lethu M'Afrika Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! Shango lashu Nkrumah -- Forwarded message -- From: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM Subject: attack on party annual conference To: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, Cape paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, smollzo...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, Delano Maloney dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1718 bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, Michael Muendane m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, Mohlomphegi Mphahlele mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, Pinkie Monyane monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, mnd...@yahoo.com, po
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, mnd...@yahoo.com, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Morning Cde. Raymond I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of time and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is since the Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its silence in the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG because if people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and suspensions and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough luck for PAC members and its future. Personally I hate people who like claiming things that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has developed capacity to operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak revolutionary theory to say the least. There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a revolutionary party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al what we are consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply see what works and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 years there as an SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, disorder, weekly suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of party operations. In short it does not matter how right he says things will remain the same. Izwe Lethu! On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: Izwe lethu M'Afrika Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! Shango lashu Nkrumah -- Forwarded message -- From: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM Subject: attack on party annual conference To: Admin @ Pac ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, Cape paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, Narius Moloto s...@pac.org.za, smollzo...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, Delano Maloney dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, Lekgathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1718 bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, Michael Muendane m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, Mohlomphegi Mphahlele mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
M'Afrika I fully agree with M'Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party's annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Zondo Your statement makes sense but you are dishonest. Cde Moloto has been paying for yourself and Eddie Mfulwane to attend NEC meetings and support his positions as far back as 11 May 2013. Your PAYCO is not driving any PAC Programmes among the youths in the country buts has been a voting cattle for Moloto NEC Grouping. Some of your youths members like Eddie Mfulwane, Justice Digashu and others are paid by Moloto to do what Moloto seeks from PAYCO. PYACO has no provincial, regional structures across the country with only handful few branches. We know radical and revolutionary AZANYU As PAYCO you have no youth programmes to mobilise and challenge the dominance of the ANCYL, DA Youth Organisation is doing far much better. Remember, PASMA collapsed under your leadership with Eddie Mfulwane, now PAYCO will be written off! PAC with all its mistakes and weaknesses, we used to pride ourselves about militant and revolutionary AZANYU, PASO and PASMA leadership and membership which was ideologically sound and politically sharp but today PAYCO has become a shame. You are leading PAYCO and a small pocket size trade union? All this is just a money making scheme, typical of lumpens. Withdraw yourself from being scrop-lappie of some moneyed people in PAC and focus on uniting and building PAYCO. Organise meetings and pursued Mpasha Pitso. Your Madadeni congress mandated that end of 2013 PAYCO must have an youth conference remain unfulfilled! PAC did not have youth during national elections because PAYCO only exists to vote during and at Moloto NEC meetings. Izwe lethu Ndima On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. Fihla Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Mbuyiselo Kantso Date:04/09/2014 08:41 (GMT+02:00) To: payco@googlegroups.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrades, I have been following your discussions attentively. Everyone is concerned even us who are outside PAC. We are what we are because of teaching and skills invested to us by PAC. We are expected to celebrate when PAC is in deep crisis and claim to vindicated. Instead, we are deeply hurt when people are making PAC a laughing stock. President Zuma offended me when said on live television, Where is PAC? and then laughed. We know the enemies of African people are celebrating for job well done. Continued divisions works in their favour. Comrades, action speaks more than words. It is not easy to rescue PAC without extraordinary means. We must jointly rational thinking more than emotions. Blame game will take us to nowhere. Fighting each other did not take us anywhere. I believe a well thought roadmap is the only answer to ''Rebuild the Broken Walls of Pan Africanism in South Africa. The time is now or never! The only way to draw up this roadmap as I see it is to convene a Mammelodi-type of Convention of all Pan Africanists, not conference or caucus. That is my suggestion. I may be wrong. I see no other avenue. To me, it is only in a convention where we can do thorough introspection without factions competing for leadershp position. Election of NEC, we have seen, will take PAC nowhere but further division. That is my oinion! It's not gospel truth but just a suggestion in positive direction. Some people will ask why I am concerned about PAC matters? My answer is, I took a conscious decision to join PAC of 1959 and grew up in PAC because I believe it was the only vehicle for liberation in this country. That is why we fought so hard for PAM to adopt PAC Basic Documents because we still regard ourselves as members of PAC of Sobukwe in self-imposed exile in response to PAC crisis. Those who feel threatened by unity will disagree with me for their own reasons. It's their choice. Comrades, whether we like it or not, PAM outside there is seen as PAC in disguise. We cant the voters, rivals and enemies. When they see comrade Makwetu in PAM they all say there is PAC. It's fact! Izwe Lethu! -- Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com To: payco@googlegroups.com,Kutie Thondlana kutie.thondl...@gmail.com,sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08 mrfihl...@gmail.com,linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za,ad...@pac.org.za,wgaj...@gmail.com,rammymfulw...@gmail.com,richardma...@yahoo.com,river.mla...@telkomsa.net,ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za,takalaniligeg...@gmail.com,tumimod...@hotmail.co.za,tyamza...@yahoo.com,tnta...@webmail.co.za,isaa...@diplomat-global.com,i...@bataufc.com,lea...@hotmail.com,phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com,p...@vodamail.co.za,paccapeme...@webmail.co.za,pasmapresid...@gmail.com,pactshwanereg...@gmail.com,pacmogalec...@gmail.com,pac.nc...@gmail.com,phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za,pacaza...@webmail.co.za,s...@pac.org.za,smollzo...@gmail.com,sbusiso.x...@gmail.com,dud...@webmail.co.za,digashuma...@gmail.com,dmalo...@klerksdorp.org,goqwana.san...@gmail.com,hlubi.so...@gmail.com,joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com,jntab...@gmail.com,L Lekgwathi 0825164...@vodamail.co.za,lucasmmol...@gmail.com,znyam...@gmail.com,billiard.s...@gmail.com,bulanng...@gmail.com,bennet_j...@yahoo.com,bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com,ndhlo...@pac.org.za,Nakaphala Bauba nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com,nnyq...@gmail.com,m...@soultalk.co.za,mapulankoan...@gmail.com,mvakalijust...@gmail.com,mbind...@gmail.com,mphah...@eskom.co.za,malingeplaat...@yahoo.com,mphothobej...@yahoo.com,mokoen...@workmail.co.za,moshemahlom...@gmail.com,monyanepin...@gmail.com,mop...@pac.org.za,mnd...@yahoo.com,po...@yahoo.com,celenjabulo...@gmail.com,njabulo.m...@gmail.com,vu...@telkomsa.net,dumisani...@gmail.com Date: Thursday, September 4, 2014 1:06:19 PM GMT+0200 Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika I fully agree with M'Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
.Mahlanguvemahla...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrade Zondo Your statement makes sense but you are dishonest. Cde Moloto has been paying for yourself and Eddie Mfulwane to attend NEC meetings and support his positions as far back as 11 May 2013. Your PAYCO is not driving any PAC Programmes among the youths in the country buts has been a voting cattle for Moloto NEC Grouping. Some of your youths members like Eddie Mfulwane, Justice Digashu and others are paid by Moloto to do what Moloto seeks from PAYCO. PYACO has no provincial, regional structures across the country with only handful few branches. We know radical and revolutionary AZANYU As PAYCO you have no youth programmes to mobilise and challenge the dominance of the ANCYL, DA Youth Organisation is doing far much better. Remember, PASMA collapsed under your leadership with Eddie Mfulwane, now PAYCO will be written off! PAC with all its mistakes and weaknesses, we used to pride ourselves about militant and revolutionary AZANYU, PASO and PASMA leadership and membership which was ideologically sound and politically sharp but today PAYCO has become a shame. You are leading PAYCO and a small pocket size trade union? All this is just a money making scheme, typical of lumpens. Withdraw yourself from being scrop-lappie of some moneyed people in PAC and focus on uniting and building PAYCO. Organise meetings and pursued Mpasha Pitso. Your Madadeni congress mandated that end of 2013 PAYCO must have an youth conference remain unfulfilled! PAC did not have youth during national elections because PAYCO only exists to vote during and at Moloto NEC meetings. Izwe lethu Ndima On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
M’Afrika Comrade Linda, Comrade and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by Cde Linda? We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common action plan to salvage the PAC! The disintegration of PAC must be arrested! Shango lashu NKrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 04 September 2014 03:31 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethi; lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrades, The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. The absence of substantive intellectual engagements battle of ideas drives us to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us fish chips without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions. Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness. Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based PAC,militant and revolutionary. We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can lead PAC to find itself: 1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with boers, why not with our own? 2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity) 3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's 4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures) 5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party and develop a National Programme of Action for the party) 6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months) We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! _ From: Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 +0200 To: payco@googlegroups.com mailto:payco@googlegroups.com%3cpa...@googlegroups.com payco@googlegroups.com ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlanakutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za mailto:sndam...@pac-cape.org.za%3csndam...@pac-cape.org.za sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pacad...@pac.org.za; Wandisile Gajanawgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwanerammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com mailto:richardma...@yahoo.com%3crichardma...@yahoo.com richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlamboriver.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com mailto:takalaniligeg...@gmail.com%3ctakalaniligeg...@gmail.com takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modisetumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashetyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethii...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlaminiphillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za mailto:p...@vodamail.co.za%3cp...@vodamail.co.za p...@vodamail.co.za; Capepaccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com mailto:pasmapresid
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Any initiative aimed at getting PAC right has to be supported. I am in and will lobby other comrades and branches to do the same. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi nrkgag...@gmail.com Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:00:10 To: payco@googlegroups.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Kutie Thondlana'kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08'mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac'ad...@pac.org.za; 'Wandisile Gajana'wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane'rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; 'Johnson Mlambo'river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 'Tumediso Modise'tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 'Xola Tyamzashe'tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; 'Alton Mphethi'i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; 'phillip Dhlamini'phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; 'Cape'paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; 'PAC TSHWANE'pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 'PAC Mogale city PAC'pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 'Phumzile Nomnga'phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; 'Narius Moloto's...@pac.org.za; 'Smoll Zondo'smollzo...@gmail.com; 'Sbusiso Xaba'sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; 'Lehlogonolo Digashu'digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M’Afrika Comrade Linda, Comrade and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by Cde Linda? We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common action plan to salvage the PAC! The disintegration of PAC must be arrested! Shango lashu NKrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 04 September 2014 03:31 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethi; lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrades, The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. The absence of substantive intellectual engagements battle of ideas drives us to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us fish chips without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions. Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness. Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based PAC,militant and revolutionary. We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can lead PAC to find itself: 1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with boers, why not with our own? 2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity) 3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's 4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures) 5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party and develop a National Programme of Action for the party) 6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months) We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao
