Re: [PD] call for test : else test release for mac arm

[hans w. koch]

just tried 1.0-0_rc11-Pre-Test-Release3 on my macbook pro M1 sonoma 14.2.1

the link to All objects in the ELSE library in the All_about_else.pd opens 
„All_objects.pd“ from cyclone (seperate folder in PD/externals) instead of else.
if i open the All_objects.pd from the else folder it will open (after a while) 
without complaints.

thanks for your efforts!

best
hans

> Am 12.01.2024 um 23:55 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres :
> 
> '1.0-0_rc11-Pre-Test-Release3' is  now up :) hopefully I worked out all bugs
> 
> Em sex., 12 de jan. de 2024 às 19:27, Alexandre Torres Porres 
>  escreveu:
> Hi Apple Silicon people, can you do me a favor and test if my test release up 
> in deken ("1.0-0_rc11-pre-test-release2") can load all objects just fine by 
> opening the "All_objects.pd" file in the 'else' folder? You need Pd 0.54-1 by 
> the way. Some users are complaining some objects were crashing the app or not 
> properly loading. I have been fixing this but it seems different users get 
> issues with different objects, which is insane...
> 
> The deken upload is just for mac. 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ps. by the way, it does take quite some time to load all objects, like even a 
> couple of minutes, cause my lib is a bit big (524 objects and counting). It's 
> weird how it all loads quite fast on my 10 year old macbook air running 
> mojave... I wonder if we could do something about or if we just have to live 
> with this hassle in current macs/macOSes... can someone at least confirm me 
> if when you load an object first it may take a while but then the OS and Pd 
> remembers it is 'good' forever and ever on?
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Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

[hans w. koch]

+1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss thinking back of the 
times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing feature).
advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-)

cheers
hans

> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres :
> 
> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I think Pd 
> needs something natively. What do you people think and say?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres 
>  escreveu:
> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres 
>  escreveu:
> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be still 
> neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as fine, but 
> let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, someone already 
> told me that, I think I have an idea for that too.
> 
> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I created an 
> object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of preset 
> transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside the 
> preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good this 
> is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and can be 
> used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff.
> 
> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object to allow 
> one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values, also 
> incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my repository 
> this weeked.
> 
> cheers
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Re: [PD] off topic: congrats Miller for the Silver Lion award from La Biennale di Venezia

[hans w. koch]

thats really well deserved and a wonderful news!congratulations miller and a deep thank you for all your work.hanswww.hans-w-koch.netAm 21.10.2023 um 10:29 schrieb Antoine Rousseau :Excellent! Congrats Miller!Le sam. 21 oct. 2023 à 07:05, Matt Davey  a écrit :ON Topic, surely!  Congrats Miller!  Nobel Prize next...
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Re: [PD] Mobmuplat bug...

[hans w. koch]

that would be great, thanks so much in advance!

best
hans

> Am 11.07.2023 um 17:01 schrieb Daniel Iglesia :
> 
> sure I'll update it
> 
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 12:15 AM hans w. koch  <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> after reading here: https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues/87 
> <https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues/87>
> that the android version got updated to pd 0.51-3 (last comment) i feel (more 
> than) a little sad this didn´t happen for iOS.
> 
> esp. since in my understanding the multi channel I/O got significantly 
> improved with newer versions of libPd.
> 
> i still love the GUI building capabilities of mobmuplat.
> 
> @daniel: what would it take to convince you of updating the iOS version as 
> well?
> 
> cheers
> hans
> 
>> Am 11.07.2023 um 03:27 schrieb Daniel Iglesia > <mailto:daniel.igle...@gmail.com>>:
>> 
>> Please file an issue on the github issue tracker
>> https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues 
>> <https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues>
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Simon Iten > <mailto:itensi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Don’t know if mobmuplat is still developed further.
>> 
>> I found a problem:
>> 
>> When programatically switching to a specific page (x) of a GUI via setPage, 
>> the page is displayed halfway between page x and x+1 with no way to change 
>> pages anymore. This problem is happening on iOS 12.5.7 with an iPhone 6 in 
>> landscape mode. In portrait mode the problem is less pronounced, but the 
>> page is still not “fully” switched, so it is somewhere between x and x+1.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Mobmuplat bug...

[hans w. koch]

after reading here: https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues/87
that the android version got updated to pd 0.51-3 (last comment) i feel (more 
than) a little sad this didn´t happen for iOS.

esp. since in my understanding the multi channel I/O got significantly improved 
with newer versions of libPd.

i still love the GUI building capabilities of mobmuplat.

@daniel: what would it take to convince you of updating the iOS version as well?

cheers
hans

> Am 11.07.2023 um 03:27 schrieb Daniel Iglesia :
> 
> Please file an issue on the github issue tracker
> https://github.com/monkeyswarm/MobMuPlat/issues 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Simon Iten  > wrote:
> Don’t know if mobmuplat is still developed further.
> 
> I found a problem:
> 
> When programatically switching to a specific page (x) of a GUI via setPage, 
> the page is displayed halfway between page x and x+1 with no way to change 
> pages anymore. This problem is happening on iOS 12.5.7 with an iPhone 6 in 
> landscape mode. In portrait mode the problem is less pronounced, but the page 
> is still not “fully” switched, so it is somewhere between x and x+1.
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-0 released

[hans w. koch]

thanks for the double precision builds, johannes!
just in time before i started to roll my own.

best
hans

> Am 04.07.2023 um 13:01 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig :
> 
> On 7/4/23 06:46, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> To Pd announce:
>> Pd version 0.54-0 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
>> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data .
> 
> hooray!
> 
> for those who need to download via https, get it via 
> https://puredata.info/downloads/pure-data/releases/0.54-0
> 
> I've also uploaded experimental double-precision builds (only for 64bit 
> platforms):
> https://puredata.info/downloads/pure-data/releases/0.54-0-pd64
> 
> have fun.
> 
> gfasdr
> IOhannes
> 
> PS: there are no Debian packages yet (as I have to go through some 
> bureaucratic hickups first; hopefully they will be available within the next 
> week or so)
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Re: [PD] Installation with Pure Data and Faust

[hans w. koch]

sorry for a late response, jerome,

its actually beautiful work, thanks for sharing!
also sharing the code etc.

best
hans


> Am 16.04.2023 um 22:33 schrieb Jérôme Abel :
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I just want to share a recent robotic installation i've made with Pure Data 
> and Faust, "Sentinelle" : https://jeromeabel.net/workshop/sentinelle/
> 
> It is very simple in fact, but I've enjoyed integrated first objects with 
> Faust and pd-faustgen.
> 
> Many thanks for all Faust/Pd developers, maintainers, it's a new playground 
> for me.
> 
> Best.
> 
> Jerome Abel / https://jeromeabel.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[hans w. koch]

how about this one: https://github.com/cuinjune/purr-data 

running pd in a browser, which also would run on android.
(disclaimer: i only glanced at it casually)

but as christoph said, it has some masochistic aspect to it.

best

hans


> Am 24.02.2023 um 13:05 schrieb Matevz Leskovsek :
> 
> Well I kinda abandoned all desktop OS about 10 years ago, just running
> chromiumOS everywhere now and patiently waiting for all runtimes to
> become available in cloud :D Also I dont run crostini or crossover or
> other any WM.. yes, its a simple life :D I just kept one windows
> computer to run VSTs and OBS studio, otherwise chromebooks and android
> devices for everything :) But I miss pd heavily... btw i saw your APK
> builder for pddroid - awesome! Google wants aab bundles now though,
> which is really annoying, so I guess we will abandon google play
> eventually and use some alternative repo/installer. Anyhow, if someone
> has an idea how to edit patches on stock android devices or on
> chromebooks that would be great!
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:52 PM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> It depends on your workflow. For PdParty, you can stream *all* live sensor 
>> events over OSC while prototyping in desktop Pd, which is sufficient for my 
>> use case. Then again, I don’t use my mobile device as an everything 
>> computer, so I suppose I’m biased.
>> 
>> enohp ym morf tnes
>> ---
>> Dan Wilcox
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
>>> really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
>>> popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
>>> livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
>>> desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
>>> be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
>>> willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
>>> tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
>>> pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
>>> suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
>>> easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
>>> js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
>>> patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
>>> is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
>>> respect! Thanks!
>>> 
 On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
 
 Howdy Matevz,
 
 I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
 Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.
 
 Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a 
 live, graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:
 
 1. the interaction metaphors are different
 2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)
 
 That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something 
 that can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, 
 however, once things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating 
 most of the core logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try 
 to keep it up to date with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. 
 In short: it's a lot of thankless work that is best *not* done without 
 lots of interest, resources, and support.
 
 The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
 distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where 
 your question is focused.
 
 As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear 
 decision early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the 
 reasons mentioned above.
 
 On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
 From: Matevz Leskovsek 
 To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
 Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
 Message-ID:
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 
 Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
 pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
 that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
 still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
 creating and running pd patches. Thanks!
 
 
 
 Dan Wilcox
 @danomatika
 danomatika.com
 robotcowboy.com
 
 
 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.

[hans w. koch]

hi dan,

thanks for putting this up!
we had one student in a pd class this week, who was running recent pd on 
M1/ventura and it solved her problems!
we didn´t stress test it, but a patch with audio and midi was running fine.
patch loading did take a good while though (couldn´t measure if it was equally 
sluggish before)

before your fix, pd would not let her select an audio device or come to a crawl 
on simple operations.

three cheers
hans

> Am 02.02.2023 um 21:38 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Howdy Theron,
> 
> can you try this build?
> 
> Pd-0.53-1-arm64-pa1970.zip 
> 
> 
> It is for arm64 (Apple Silicon) and has Portaudio v19.7.0. I tried Miller's 
> build and saw the same "unknown API" print on macOS 11. This build seems to 
> work fine for me so, hopefully, it will for you.
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2023, at 7:20 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 22:12:08 -0800
>> From: Theron Trowbridge > >
>> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
>> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at " 
>> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.
>> Message-ID:
>>  > >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Mac Mini M1, Ventura 13.1
>> 
>> It works better in some ways - the windows close and things quit when I ask
>> them to. I don't have to force quit, and it doesn't seem to be messing up
>> audio on the computer.
>> 
>> But when I turn on the DSP the output console just spams "unknown API" over
>> and over again, and when I go into audios settings, I don't see my usual
>> devices. The input device list has three options: "input device #1", "input
>> device #2" and "input device #3" and there is no pull-down menu for output
>> device, but only says "(same as input device)..." And I can't get it to
>> make any sound.
>> 
>> When I turn off DSP, it outputs "sys_close_audio: unknown API 4"
>> 
>> 
>> -Theron
>> ^
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] PdParty 1.3.2

[hans w. koch]

that would certainly help amnesiacs like me :-)
otherwise i am very fine with the folderstructure as it is.

> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:28 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> I mention it in the release notes when adding or changing one of the tests or 
> included samples, but not this time it looks like. I can make it more obvious 
> for the next release.
> 
> Example: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty/blob/master/CHANGES.txt#L86 
> <https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty/blob/master/CHANGES.txt#L86>
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:26 PM, hans w. koch > <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> but you do mention that behaviour in the documents on your website.
>> i had just forgotten about it.
>> 
>>> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:22 schrieb Dan Wilcox >> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> No, you are not at fault, it's a workflow issue. Maybe I should move all of 
>>> the included stuff into a read-only folder and leave libs for user-stuff. 
>>> Then when updating, it will just update the normally read-only folder. The 
>>> current situation is a tradeoff between providing a folder structure and 
>>> stuff to try out on start and making everything accessible.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:18 PM, hans w. koch >>> <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> aha, great, thanks!
>>>> typical noob problem :-)
>>>> 
>>>> best hans
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:09 schrieb Dan Wilcox >>>> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> multi_channel.pd in the tests folder. If you don't see it, update via: 
>>>>> Settings -> Copy libs -> tests
>>>>> 
>>>>> The libs, samples, and tests folder are copied from an internal location 
>>>>> but not automatically after an app update if you already had it installed.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:07 PM, hans w. koch >>>>> <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> hi dan,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> congratulations and thank you for the great work!
>>>>>> finally starting to join the (Pd)Party as a longtime MobMuPlat user 
>>>>>> (which still works on the newest iOS, but sadly hasn´t caught up w 
>>>>>> recent developments in Pd/libPd esp. w regards to multichannel).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> one question: in the release notes for 1.3.0/1.3.1 you mention
>>>>>> * added multi_channel test patch
>>>>>> where would i find that?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> three cheers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> hans
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 29.12.2022 um 22:33 schrieb Dan Wilcox >>>>>> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Howdy all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> hot on the heals of 1.3.0 and 1.3.1, comes PdParty 1.3.2 with a few 
>>>>>>> more bug fixes now that people are testing it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PLUG: If you appreciate this work, I can be sponsored on Github and am 
>>>>>>> available for workshops, performances, etc. :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Website: http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty 
>>>>>>> <http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Github: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty 
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ## 1.3.2: 2022-12-29
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * fixed 44.1k samplerate "41000" typo (reported by thumpclang)
>>>>>>>   NOTE: if you are using a 44.1k samplerate, please go to settings, 
>>>>>>> select a new
>>>>>>> samplerate, then reselect 44.1k to ensure the correct value is 
>>>>>>> saved
>>>>>>> * fixed no initial audio inputs by setting audio session category and 
>>>>>>> activating
>>>>>>>   on start (reported by Josef Novotny)
>>>>>>> * fixed #pdparty acceleration orientation message handling
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * force browser toolbar width so auto layout can handle bar items on 
>>>>>>> iOS 11+
>>>>>>>   without exceptions
>>>>>>> * slightly increase controls view height to keep mic icon from being 
>>>>>>> cut off on
>>>>>>>   iphone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>>>>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>>>>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>>>>>>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] PdParty 1.3.2

[hans w. koch]

hi dan,

congratulations and thank you for the great work!
finally starting to join the (Pd)Party as a longtime MobMuPlat user (which 
still works on the newest iOS, but sadly hasn´t caught up w recent developments 
in Pd/libPd esp. w regards to multichannel).

one question: in the release notes for 1.3.0/1.3.1 you mention
* added multi_channel test patch
where would i find that?

three cheers

hans

> Am 29.12.2022 um 22:33 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Howdy all,
> 
> hot on the heals of 1.3.0 and 1.3.1, comes PdParty 1.3.2 with a few more bug 
> fixes now that people are testing it.
> 
> PLUG: If you appreciate this work, I can be sponsored on Github and am 
> available for workshops, performances, etc. :)
> 
> Website: http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty 
> 
> 
> Github: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty 
> 
> 
> ## 1.3.2: 2022-12-29
> 
> * fixed 44.1k samplerate "41000" typo (reported by thumpclang)
>   NOTE: if you are using a 44.1k samplerate, please go to settings, select a 
> new
> samplerate, then reselect 44.1k to ensure the correct value is saved
> * fixed no initial audio inputs by setting audio session category and 
> activating
>   on start (reported by Josef Novotny)
> * fixed #pdparty acceleration orientation message handling
> 
> * force browser toolbar width so auto layout can handle bar items on iOS 11+
>   without exceptions
> * slightly increase controls view height to keep mic icon from being cut off 
> on
>   iphone
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] PdParty 1.3.2

[hans w. koch]

but you do mention that behaviour in the documents on your website.
i had just forgotten about it.

> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:22 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> No, you are not at fault, it's a workflow issue. Maybe I should move all of 
> the included stuff into a read-only folder and leave libs for user-stuff. 
> Then when updating, it will just update the normally read-only folder. The 
> current situation is a tradeoff between providing a folder structure and 
> stuff to try out on start and making everything accessible.
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:18 PM, hans w. koch > <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> aha, great, thanks!
>> typical noob problem :-)
>> 
>> best hans
>> 
>>> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:09 schrieb Dan Wilcox >> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> multi_channel.pd in the tests folder. If you don't see it, update via: 
>>> Settings -> Copy libs -> tests
>>> 
>>> The libs, samples, and tests folder are copied from an internal location 
>>> but not automatically after an app update if you already had it installed.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:07 PM, hans w. koch >>> <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> hi dan,
>>>> 
>>>> congratulations and thank you for the great work!
>>>> finally starting to join the (Pd)Party as a longtime MobMuPlat user (which 
>>>> still works on the newest iOS, but sadly hasn´t caught up w recent 
>>>> developments in Pd/libPd esp. w regards to multichannel).
>>>> 
>>>> one question: in the release notes for 1.3.0/1.3.1 you mention
>>>> * added multi_channel test patch
>>>> where would i find that?
>>>> 
>>>> three cheers
>>>> 
>>>> hans
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 29.12.2022 um 22:33 schrieb Dan Wilcox >>>> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Howdy all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> hot on the heals of 1.3.0 and 1.3.1, comes PdParty 1.3.2 with a few more 
>>>>> bug fixes now that people are testing it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> PLUG: If you appreciate this work, I can be sponsored on Github and am 
>>>>> available for workshops, performances, etc. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Website: http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty 
>>>>> <http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Github: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty 
>>>>> <https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty>
>>>>> 
>>>>> ## 1.3.2: 2022-12-29
>>>>> 
>>>>> * fixed 44.1k samplerate "41000" typo (reported by thumpclang)
>>>>>   NOTE: if you are using a 44.1k samplerate, please go to settings, 
>>>>> select a new
>>>>> samplerate, then reselect 44.1k to ensure the correct value is 
>>>>> saved
>>>>> * fixed no initial audio inputs by setting audio session category and 
>>>>> activating
>>>>>   on start (reported by Josef Novotny)
>>>>> * fixed #pdparty acceleration orientation message handling
>>>>> 
>>>>> * force browser toolbar width so auto layout can handle bar items on iOS 
>>>>> 11+
>>>>>   without exceptions
>>>>> * slightly increase controls view height to keep mic icon from being cut 
>>>>> off on
>>>>>   iphone
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>>>>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] PdParty 1.3.2

[hans w. koch]

aha, great, thanks!
typical noob problem :-)

best hans

> Am 30.12.2022 um 17:09 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> multi_channel.pd in the tests folder. If you don't see it, update via: 
> Settings -> Copy libs -> tests
> 
> The libs, samples, and tests folder are copied from an internal location but 
> not automatically after an app update if you already had it installed.
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2022, at 5:07 PM, hans w. koch > <mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> hi dan,
>> 
>> congratulations and thank you for the great work!
>> finally starting to join the (Pd)Party as a longtime MobMuPlat user (which 
>> still works on the newest iOS, but sadly hasn´t caught up w recent 
>> developments in Pd/libPd esp. w regards to multichannel).
>> 
>> one question: in the release notes for 1.3.0/1.3.1 you mention
>> * added multi_channel test patch
>> where would i find that?
>> 
>> three cheers
>> 
>> hans
>> 
>>> Am 29.12.2022 um 22:33 schrieb Dan Wilcox >> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Howdy all,
>>> 
>>> hot on the heals of 1.3.0 and 1.3.1, comes PdParty 1.3.2 with a few more 
>>> bug fixes now that people are testing it.
>>> 
>>> PLUG: If you appreciate this work, I can be sponsored on Github and am 
>>> available for workshops, performances, etc. :)
>>> 
>>> Website: http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty 
>>> <http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty>
>>> 
>>> Github: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty 
>>> <https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty>
>>> 
>>> ## 1.3.2: 2022-12-29
>>> 
>>> * fixed 44.1k samplerate "41000" typo (reported by thumpclang)
>>>   NOTE: if you are using a 44.1k samplerate, please go to settings, select 
>>> a new
>>> samplerate, then reselect 44.1k to ensure the correct value is saved
>>> * fixed no initial audio inputs by setting audio session category and 
>>> activating
>>>   on start (reported by Josef Novotny)
>>> * fixed #pdparty acceleration orientation message handling
>>> 
>>> * force browser toolbar width so auto layout can handle bar items on iOS 11+
>>>   without exceptions
>>> * slightly increase controls view height to keep mic icon from being cut 
>>> off on
>>>   iphone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] [hidraw] pre Deken release. was:(Reading/writing a HID device current best practice?)

[hans w. koch]

looks like you can „ask apple“ only if you are  "members of the Apple Developer 
Program or Apple Developer Enterprise Program“
furthermore topics are set to apples latest + shiniest
https://developer.apple.com/events/ask-apple/questions-and-answers/ 


your proposed question is great: I would like to know how an open source 
project which relies on freely-shared plugins is supposed to exist on a 
platform that is making it harder on accessibility.
just apple doesn´t seem to provide a slot to ask it - they might have their 
reasons…

i could try to wrestle my institution into paying for a dev account, which i 
could open up to people like lucas.
another possibility would be a donated dev account - 100$ per year is like 2 
beers per month. drink less, have more code :-) 
would that even be allowed by apple?

best
hans

> Am 11.10.2022 um 23:37 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Looks like we could “Ask Apple”…
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/events/ask-apple/ 
> 
> 
> I would like to know how an open source project which relies on freely-shared 
> plugins is supposed to exist on a platform that is making it harder on 
> accessibility.
> 
> I have had a developer account for many years but that doesn’t mean I like 
> jumping through these hoops after spending too long figuring them out. It 
> would be nicer if you, as a user, could simply tell the system: “Pd can load 
> whatever dynamic libs.”
> 
> It’s the same situation for other environments such as Max.
> 
> enohp ym morf tnes
> ---
> Dan Wilcox
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 8:01 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> You already have you answer: no code signing or notarization means users 
>> get the security popup when the dylibs are loaded but they just have to 
>> select open as far as I know. Gatekeeper asks them once, then the system 
>> remembers the selection. I believe it may also require changing a privacy 
>> setting in System Preferences to allow it.
>> 
>> I already added the "Disable library validation" entitlement back for the 
>> first Pd release for 10.15 which introduced the stronger security settings.
>> 
>> Also, I think calling them "thieves" is misleading. If you don't want to use 
>> the platform or the services which are provided with the developer account, 
>> don't. No one is forcing you. Please don't contribute to FUD.
>> 
>> You could simply provide the code and perhaps the make files to automate the 
>> process, then convince an institution to pay for the developer account 
>> license. I included this as one of my expenses for my last funded iOS 
>> project... :)
>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 7:12 PM, Lucas Cordiviola >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> @ Dan
>>> 
>>> Thanks for sharing this. I'll be digging about  ` you need an Apple 
>>> Developer account (and Apple ID to sign up for one)`. If there's no 
>>> workaround about the us$100 i'll be giving up notarizing builds. Do you 
>>> know of a way to not send money to the thieves (if i'm not mistaken) ?
>>> 
>>> or to put it in another way:
>>> 
>>> if I don't codesign/notarize the builds: is just that users have an "open 
>>> anyway" dialog? or is it a total "show stopper" that quits Pd?
>>> 
>>> Which way should I go without the $100 ?
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika 
>> danomatika.com 
>> robotcowboy.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [hidraw] pre Deken release. was:(Reading/writing a HID device current best practice?)

[hans w. koch]

hi lucas,

> if I don't codesign/notarize the builds: is just that users have an "open 
> anyway" dialog? or is it a total "show stopper" that quits Pd?
its a bit more than just that (sigh), but not a complete show stopper.

i fully symphatize with your take on that, even if it means i will have to hop 
thru the (firey) loops, apple is setting up to letting me allow running your 
code on my machine.

for us as a community we should probably start thinking how we can pool 
ressources, so that developers who don´t have / don´t want an apple dev account 
etc. can still provide their work to the community.
if i understood correctly, apples firewall around its ecosystem will be getting 
even harder to overcome with the next system (ventura) and who knows, whats in 
the pipeline after that.

my 2 (unhelpful) cents

hans

> Am 11.10.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> @ Dan
> 
> Thanks for sharing this. I'll be digging about  ` you need an Apple Developer 
> account (and Apple ID to sign up for one)`. If there's no workaround about 
> the us$100 i'll be giving up notarizing builds. Do you know of a way to not 
> send money to the thieves (if i'm not mistaken) ?
> 
> or to put it in another way:
> 
> if I don't codesign/notarize the builds: is just that users have an "open 
> anyway" dialog? or is it a total "show stopper" that quits Pd?
> 
> Which way should I go without the $100 ?
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 11/10/2022 12:55, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> Howdy Lucas,
>> 
>> I have the makefiles working but realize now I need to do some refactoring 
>> to better handle non-app bundles like dylib libraries. Apparently the 
>> notarization process is a little different. In any case, you can check them 
>> out for now but I will be working on them further:
>> 
>> https://github.com/zkmkarlsruhe/mac-app-builder
>> 
>> Yes, you need an Apple Developer account (and Apple ID to sign up for one) 
>> in order to create the certificates for code signing as well as 
>> notarization. The overview is in the readme.
>> 
>> The notarization process for dylibs appears to be:
>> 
>> * build the dylibs (in our case pd externals)
>> * codesign them
>> * notarize them (upload to Apple notarization server)
>> * package them into a disk image .dmg
>> * sign the dmg
>> * staple the dmg with the notarization ticket
>> 
>> Distributing via zip will not work in this case because the zip cannot be 
>> signed like a dmg.
>> 
>> I think it might make sense for us to make a Makefile.pdlibnotarizer or 
>> something similar.
>> 
>> I also have a separate repo with example programs (Cocoa, openFrameworks, 
>> console + dylib) for testing, but it's not ready yet. I managed to get the 
>> dylib signed this morning which is when I found out my assumptions for the 
>> whole process are different between apps and libs. :(
>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
>>> 
>>> @ Dan
>>> 
>>> I'm back on my "machines home". I did:
>>> 
>>> xcrun notarytool
>>> 
>>> and I got its help options.
>>> 
>>> Do I need an `apple developer` account ?
>>> 
>>> I don't even have an `apple id`.
>>> 
>>> How should I proceed? do I wait for your script? do i get my `apple id`?
>>> 
>>> I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to provide arm64 builds (pd-porres 
>>> has already inquired me on this).
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika >
>> danomatika.com  > >
>> robotcowboy.com  > >
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [hidraw] pre Deken release. was:(Reading/writing a HID device current best practice?)

[hans w. koch]

hi lucas,

i just tested on mac os monterey / M1 and i still had to allow the same way as 
william.
then it worked fine (only had an external mouse to test - not very thrilling…)

thanks for the effort!

hans

> Am 06.10.2022 um 16:41 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> Hi William,
> 
> Thanks for the test. I did an ad-hoc codesign but seems it is not enough. Now 
> I signed with a self certificate:
> 
> https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/KL3dF777TPwTkM9 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if your mac can test this one as you already got the file in 
> your white list.
> 
> If you know a way to not get false positives tests are welcomed.
> 
> (also for anyone else reading with an arm64 macOS).
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 06/10/2022 10:28, William Brent wrote:
>> Hi Lucas - thanks for this! I just tested it on an M1 MacBook Pro under 
>> macOS Monterey. I got the "malicious software" warning and had to go to 
>> system prefs/security & privacy to allow the external to be run anyway, but 
>> then it worked just fine to access my Logitech game controller.
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 7:00 AM Lucas Cordiviola  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi all,
>> 
>>Next week or so i'll hopefully release hidraw. An object that
>>reads raw
>>bytes from HIDs.
>> 
>>Can anyone test this builds on a mac M1 with arm64 or a Monterey
>>x64 intel?
>> 
>>https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/Rk7HRq67eCqF7kQ
>> 
>>i'm not sure if i did correctly the code sign. (the object seems
>>to work
>>on my monterey VM).
>> 
>>If anyone (not on macOS) is willing to test the above link also has
>>Linux and Windows binaries.
>> 
>>feedback is welcomed.
>> 
>> 
>>--
>> 
>>-- Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> William Brent
>> 
>> “Great minds flock together”
>> Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
>> 
>> www.conflations.com  
>> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] flite (text to speech) v0.03 test release.

[hans w. koch]

thank you, lucas,

its very nice to have this in PD without the need to rely on (on a mac) [shell] 
+ “say” and rerouting of external sound!
dynamic loading of extra voices would be very cool of course…just saying :-)

best
hans


> Am 04.06.2022 um 05:59 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> There seems to be more voices at 
> http://festvox.org/flite/packed/flite-2.1/voices/ that can be loaded on the 
> fly. (I'm reading a couple of lines above 
> https://github.com/festvox/flite#voice-quality)
> 
> I should try to implement this in the external.
> 
> But first I should drastically improve my "hyper-naive" and "bad" threading 
> attempt.
> 
> 
> Lucarda
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 03/06/2022 14:54, Peter P. wrote:
>> Lucas,
>> 
>> thank you, this is wonderful! Do you know if five voices is a hard-coded
>> limitation from within the used libraries?
>> 
>> cheersz, Peter
>> 
>> * Lucas Cordiviola  [2022-06-02 11:06]:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> "flite" is and old "text to speech" external.
>>> 
>>> I had made some updates which includes:
>>> 
>>>   - single binary without dependencies.
>>> 
>>>   - support for the 5 voices
>>> 
>>>   - read from a text file
>>> 
>>>   - threaded functions for "synthesis" and "read file"
>>> 
>>> There are amd64 builds for tests at
>>> https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-flite/releases
>>> click on "Assets" and get the version for your OS.
>>> 
>>> Let me know if this is good enough for a Deken release or whatever.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lucarda.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [PD] irreversibly high CPU usage with 'use callbacks' (macOS)

[hans w. koch]

no such luck here…
mac OS 11.6.2
Pd 0.52-1-really

open test audio+midi patch + cpu load meter
set core audio to 48kh / blocksize 64 /5ms
activate callbacks, switch on audio = instant crash.

log attached

hans

Process:   pd [97091]
Path:  
/Applications/Pd-0.52-1-really.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
Identifier:pd
Version:   ???
Code Type: X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:Pd [97089]
Responsible:   Pd [97089]
User ID:   501

Date/Time: 2022-01-12 15:15:31.871 +0100
OS Version:macOS 11.6.2 (20G314)
Report Version:12
Anonymous UUID:93EE2292-1DCF-4ED3-BEA8-482512C78291

Sleep/Wake UUID:   3722F958-E979-4E67-A2CE-1F32AA0B04EE

Time Awake Since Boot: 89 seconds
Time Since Wake:   12000 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Crashed Thread:0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes:   KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0400
Exception Note:EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal:Segmentation fault: 11
Termination Reason:Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0xb
Terminating Process:   exc handler [97091]

VM Regions Near 0x400:
--> 
__TEXT  10c389000-10c4a8000[ 1148K] r-x/rwx SM=COW  
/Applications/Pd-0.52-1-really.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libsystem_platform.dylib0x7fff2036210c 
_platform_memmove$VARIANT$Haswell + 268

Thread 1:: AMCP Logging Spool
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202ea2f6 semaphore_wait_trap 
+ 10
1   com.apple.audio.caulk   0x7fff283dd8da 
caulk::mach::semaphore::wait_or_error() + 16
2   com.apple.audio.caulk   0x7fff283ca836 
caulk::semaphore::timed_wait(double) + 110
3   com.apple.audio.caulk   0x7fff283ca784 
caulk::concurrent::details::worker_thread::run() + 30
4   com.apple.audio.caulk   0x7fff283ca502 void* 
caulk::thread_proxy > >(void*) + 45
5   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031f8fc _pthread_start + 224
6   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b443 thread_start + 15

Thread 2:
0   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b420 start_wqthread + 0

Thread 3:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202ea2ba mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202ea62c mach_msg + 60
2   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI   0x7fff34d45bd6 
XServerMachPort::ReceiveMessage(int&, void*, int&) + 94
3   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI   0x7fff34d76473 
MIDIProcess::MIDIInPortThread::Run() + 111
4   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI   0x7fff34d5c4e2 
XThread::RunHelper(void*) + 10
5   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI   0x7fff34d5d65b 
CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 77
6   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031f8fc _pthread_start + 224
7   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b443 thread_start + 15

Thread 4:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202eccde __psynch_cvwait + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031fe49 _pthread_cond_wait + 
1298
2   py.pd_darwin0x00010c68710b 
flext_multi::ThrHelper(void*) + 187
3   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031f8fc _pthread_start + 224
4   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b443 thread_start + 15

Thread 5:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202eccde __psynch_cvwait + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031fe49 _pthread_cond_wait + 
1298
2   libopenblas.0.dylib 0x0001112a620f blas_thread_server + 
207
3   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031f8fc _pthread_start + 224
4   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b443 thread_start + 15

Thread 6:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202eccde __psynch_cvwait + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031fe49 _pthread_cond_wait + 
1298
2   py.pd_darwin0x00010c68872e 
flext_multi::ThrCond::TimedWait(double) + 158
3   py.pd_darwin0x00010c68f124 
flext_base_multi::QWorker(flext_multi::thr_params*) + 52
4   py.pd_darwin0x00010c686da1 
LaunchHelper(thr_entry*) + 33
5   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031f8fc _pthread_start + 224
6   libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x7fff2031b443 thread_start + 15

Thread 7:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff202f2656 __select + 10
1   libpython3.7m.dylib 0x0001109890f3 time_sleep + 323
2   libpython3.7m.dylib 0x0001107cb379 
_PyMethodDef_RawFastCallDict + 665
3   libpython3.7m.dylib 0x0001107cc546 PyCFunction_Call + 
166
4   py.pd_darwin0x00010c67c22b 

Re: [PD] (Tcl) UNHANDLED ERRORR: window name starts with an upper-case letter

[hans w. koch]

ok, i just submitted an issue on github: [array] (Tcl) UNHANDLED ERRORR: window 
name starts with an upper-case letter

best 
hans

> Am 09.01.2022 um 20:30 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> Can confirm! Actually, I also see this with Pd 0.49 (haven't tried even older 
> version). Can you open an issue on GitHub?
> 
> On 09.01.2022 19:30, hans w. koch wrote:
>> hello,
>> 
>> don´t know, if this is known, but i see it with Pd-0.52-1-really and 
>> Pd-0.51-4-macosx:
>> 
>> opening the patch E05.chebychev.pd from audioexamples, clicking in the array 
>> to display properties and selecting “listview” gives:
>> (Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: window name starts with an upper-case letter: 
>> "E05-tabArrayWindow"
>> while executing
>> "toplevel $windowName -class DialogWindow"
>> (procedure "pdtk_array_listview_new" line 6)
>> invoked from within
>> "pdtk_array_listview_new .gfxstub7fe688fc4330 E05-tab 0"
>> ("uplevel" body line 2)
>> invoked from within
>> "uplevel #0 $docmds"(Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: window name starts with an 
>> upper-case letter: "E05-tabArrayWindow"
>> while executing
>> "toplevel $windowName -class DialogWindow"
>> (procedure “pdtk_array_l
>> 
>> creating a new patch with an array, starting with a capital (eg Array1) 
>> gives the same.
>> 
>> weird, ain´t it?
>> 
>> cheers
>> hans
>> 
>> 
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[PD] (Tcl) UNHANDLED ERRORR: window name starts with an upper-case letter

[hans w. koch]

hello,

don´t know, if this is known, but i see it with Pd-0.52-1-really and 
Pd-0.51-4-macosx:

opening the patch E05.chebychev.pd from audioexamples, clicking in the array to 
display properties and selecting “listview” gives:
(Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: window name starts with an upper-case letter: 
"E05-tabArrayWindow"
while executing
"toplevel $windowName -class DialogWindow"
(procedure "pdtk_array_listview_new" line 6)
invoked from within
"pdtk_array_listview_new .gfxstub7fe688fc4330 E05-tab 0"
("uplevel" body line 2)
invoked from within
"uplevel #0 $docmds"(Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: window name starts with an 
upper-case letter: "E05-tabArrayWindow"
while executing
"toplevel $windowName -class DialogWindow"
(procedure “pdtk_array_l

creating a new patch with an array, starting with a capital (eg Array1) gives 
the same.

weird, ain´t it?

cheers
hans


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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.52-1 released / libpd

[hans w. koch]

out of curiosity i tried to build libpd included in the src folder, by doing
  cd libpd
make

on macOS BigSur 11.6.2 this throws some errors and doesn´t produce a 
libpd.dylib:
Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64:
  "_s_float", referenced from:
  _sigmund_new in sigmund~.o
  "_s_list", referenced from:
  _pique_new in pique.o
  _pique_list in pique.o
  _sigmund_new in sigmund~.o
  "_s_signal", referenced from:
  _bob_new in bob~.o
  _bonk_new in bonk~.o
  _loop_new in loop~.o
  _pd_tilde_new in pd~.o
ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture x86_64
clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
make: *** [libpd.dylib] Error 1

clueless as to where to start looking what´s gone wrong as the README claims: 
"This is tested on Linux, macOS,
and on Windows using Msys2/MinGW.”

its not really urgent, but i thought i share.

bests
hans


> Am 20.12.2021 um 20:36 schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-announce 
> :
> 
> To Pd-announce:
> 
> Pd version 0.52-1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.52-1 released

[hans w. koch]

thank you so much miller and all the others involved, thats wonderful news!
also happy to report that a nasty scratchy/distorted sound coming from a really 
simple automationism patch i had made for my class, has gone away now.
(it was not happening in Pd-0.51-4-macosx, but in all the 0.52 tests i´ve run 
before - would have set out to investigate over the holidays, but seems solved 
now :-)

cheers
hans



> Am 20.12.2021 um 20:36 schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-announce 
> :
> 
> To Pd-announce:
> 
> Pd version 0.52-1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

nothing against a pre compiled binary, but considering that even i am able to 
roll that for myself, i wonder if thats really necessary.
with the right tools installed (explained in install.txt) , i use this:
cd path/to/pd
./autogen.sh
./configure CPPFLAGS="-DPD_FLOATSIZE=64"
 make
make app

and bingo.



> Am 26.11.2021 um 05:19 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres :
> 
> again the same question, with 0.52 around the corner, will we have a Pd 
> double precision binary distributed?
> 
> cheers
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Re: [PD] Pd in cross-platform frameworks

[hans w. koch]

the closest i know of is mobmuplat: https://danieliglesia.com/mobmuplat/
available for iOS and android. GUI is created in json.

hand

> Am 08.10.2021 um 17:33 schrieb Antoine Rousseau :
> 
> libpd... https://github.com/libpd/libpd
> what is your cross-platform framework? maybe there's already a module that 
> integrates libpd into it?
> 
> Antoine
> 
> 
> 
> Le ven. 8 oct. 2021 à 14:25, Jakob  a écrit :
> Dear list,
> Has anyone of you heard/seen of a possibilty to integrate a pd patch into a 
> cross-platform framework ? My goal is to have an app for android and ios with 
> the (more or less) same gui. The sound engine, however, should be an existing 
> pd patch. The gui-code from the cross-platform framework needs to communicate 
> with the patch.
> 
> Thanks and best regards,
> 
> Jakob
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] random routing of 8 audio-streams to 8 outputs

[hans w. koch]

(to keep me from what i am supposed to do :-)

here is a solution for 3 channels, easily expandable - vanilla only.
it uses c_urn from PdParty_composerpack/lib/rj
which i attach as convenience

hth
hans



randomize_loudspeakers.pd
Description: Binary data


c_urn-help.pd
Description: Binary data


c_urn.pd
Description: Binary data



> Am 05.10.2021 um 00:08 schrieb Simon Iten :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is there a somewhat elegant way to route 8 audio outputs (from readsf~) to 8 
> dac~ outputs randomly (on a bang for example)?
> 
> i.e. out1 to dac4, out2 to dac7 etc.
> 
> each output is allowed to one dac~ channel only.
> 
> mathematically speaking that would be 8! 8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1 (40320) 
> possibilites, but i don’t see an easy way to program this in puredata.
> 
> some way of dynamic patching maybe? or a throw~ and catch~ approach? i get 
> stuck on the random logic, since every “step” that chooses a destinations 
> changes the subsequent outputs that are still allowed to be chosen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Can't launch DeepLearningWithAudio patches

[hans w. koch]

thanks for the clarification, johannes.
since the “deep learning with audio” examples do require to activate a magenta 
environment via terminal prior to launching pd and the py external, i was under 
the impression, that there is some communication taking place between that 
environment and pd.
but admittedly, i have a poor understanding of whats going on behind the scenes.

best
hans

> Am 02.10.2021 um 21:14 schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig :
> 
> Am 2. Oktober 2021 14:23:39 MESZ schrieb "hans w. koch" 
> :
>> 
>> on may machine that prints a lot of info to pd´s console and i´d take it as 
>> an indication that communication is not blocked.
>> 
> 
> I think this is quite unrelated (apart from involving Pd and Python in both 
> cases)
> 
> 'Py' (which I think is used here) does,not launch a separate "Python3" 
> executable and then communicates with it in the way `[command]` would do.
> Instead it hosts an interpreter within Pd by using "libpython"
> 
> 
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Can't launch DeepLearningWithAudio patches

[hans w. koch]

hi yann,

for hypothesis 1 + 3 i am out of my depth (don´t have an M1)

for testing 2 you could maybe use romans  [command] utility, which he posted 
yesterday. its up on deken.
send it an "exec python3 -v” and watch it print via the right outlet
on may machine that prints a lot of info to pd´s console and i´d take it as an 
indication that communication is not blocked.

i´d wager your problem is either 1 or/and 3, for which i have no clue 
unfortunately :-(

best
hans

> Am 02.10.2021 um 07:31 schrieb Yann Seznec :
> 
> Thanks Hans, that’s very good to know. 
> 
> Here’s what my Pd window says about python when I launch:
> --
> py/pyext 0.2.2 - python script objects
> (C)2002-2019 Thomas Grill - http://g.org/ext
> 
> using Python 3.7.11 (default, Jul 27 2021, 07:05:34) 
> [Clang 10.0.0 ]
> 
> Python array support enabled
> —
> 
> 
> My current working theories (apart from user error) are:
> 
> 1. This is something to do with the M1 chip, maybe one of the packages isn’t 
> fully compatible?
> 2. I’m using a work computer, and despite having admin rights perhaps it is 
> quietly blocking something (like the communication between Pd and Python)
> 3. This is something to do with Python 3.7.11 vs 3.7.10?
> 
> You’ve helped me eliminate my fourth theory, which was that it was something 
> to do with Pd 0.51.4 vs 0.51.3. So, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1 Oct 2021, at 19:14, hans w. koch  wrote:
>> 
>> hello yann,
>> 
>> probably not much help, but i am running the patches from example 1 + 2 
>> succesfully on pd 0.51.4
>> my machine is intel mbp os x 11.6.
>> 
>> pd console gives this for python:
>> py/pyext 0.2.2 - python script objects
>> (C)2002-2019 Thomas Grill - http://g.org/ext
>> 
>> using Python 3.7.10 (default, Feb 26 2021, 10:18:37) 
>> [Clang 10.0.0 ]
>> 
>> Python array support enabled
>> 
>> installing the dependencies for 02_ddsp was a bit like jumping thhru moving 
>> loops, trying to settle for the minimum amount of error messages, but in the 
>> end i somehow managed.
>> even if it makes my 2015 13inch mbp really sweat…
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>>> Am 01.10.2021 um 10:19 schrieb Yann Seznec :
>>> 
>>> Hello hello,
>>> 
>>> I’ve posted this issue on GitHub but I’m wondering if anyone on this list 
>>> has run into this before me: 
>>> https://github.com/SopiMlab/DeepLearningWithAudio/issues/8
>>> 
>>> I’m trying to get started on the Deep Learning With Audio resources, and 
>>> I’m reasonably certain I’ve managed to set up Python, Conda, Magenta, and 
>>> PyExt correctly. However none of the Pd patches will launch. A few more 
>>> details at the link above, but to be honest I’m finding it hard to track 
>>> down any more clues as I’m not seeing any error messages anywhere and there 
>>> are no crash logs or anything that I can see.
>>> 
>>> I’m on a MacBook Pro M1, macOS 11.6, Pd 0.51.4. 
>>> 
>>> Any tips appreciated,
>>> 
>>> Yann
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> 




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Re: [PD] Can't launch DeepLearningWithAudio patches

[hans w. koch]

hello yann,

probably not much help, but i am running the patches from example 1 + 2 
succesfully on pd 0.51.4
my machine is intel mbp os x 11.6.

pd console gives this for python:
py/pyext 0.2.2 - python script objects
(C)2002-2019 Thomas Grill - http://g.org/ext

using Python 3.7.10 (default, Feb 26 2021, 10:18:37) 
[Clang 10.0.0 ]

Python array support enabled

installing the dependencies for 02_ddsp was a bit like jumping thhru moving 
loops, trying to settle for the minimum amount of error messages, but in the 
end i somehow managed.
even if it makes my 2015 13inch mbp really sweat…

best
hans

> Am 01.10.2021 um 10:19 schrieb Yann Seznec :
> 
> Hello hello,
> 
> I’ve posted this issue on GitHub but I’m wondering if anyone on this list has 
> run into this before me: 
> https://github.com/SopiMlab/DeepLearningWithAudio/issues/8
> 
> I’m trying to get started on the Deep Learning With Audio resources, and I’m 
> reasonably certain I’ve managed to set up Python, Conda, Magenta, and PyExt 
> correctly. However none of the Pd patches will launch. A few more details at 
> the link above, but to be honest I’m finding it hard to track down any more 
> clues as I’m not seeing any error messages anywhere and there are no crash 
> logs or anything that I can see.
> 
> I’m on a MacBook Pro M1, macOS 11.6, Pd 0.51.4. 
> 
> Any tips appreciated,
> 
> Yann
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Re: [PD] MobMuPlat multitouch and preset saving

[hans w. koch]

that would make me very happy :-)
thanks,

hans

> Am 14.08.2021 um 17:05 schrieb Daniel Iglesia :
> 
> Sure I can do another app release
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 14, 2021, at 2:01 AM, hans w. koch  wrote:
>> 
>> (slightly hijacking the thread because of love for mobmuplat)
>> 
>> while i am very grateful, that mobmuplat just keeps working on the newest 
>> iOS, i keep wondering if the recent developments in pd, which made it into 
>> libpd wouldn´t warrant a new release?
>> thinking specifically of the text suite of objects, but maybe also things 
>> like [savestate], [pdcontrol], [slop~].
>> plus using multiple audio I/O configurations for me always are a bit hit or 
>> miss.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 14.08.2021 um 00:43 schrieb Simon Iten :
>>> 
>>> thanks!
>>> 
>>>>> On 11 Aug 2021, at 02:38, Daniel Iglesia  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> 1) The multitouch widget sends out 4 different streams of data, each 
>>>> sorted a different way, for different desired usage. In your case, if you 
>>>> listen on "touchesByVox", the first element is the voice number, so a 
>>>> [route 1 2 3 4 5] should separate it into a stream per voice. Is that what 
>>>> you get? (it's been a while since I looked at it)
>>> it was the touch outlet from route, not touchbyvox which works this way, 
>>> perfect, thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 2) There is not a single official format for saving, but you can read and 
>>>> write text files to/from disk with the vanilla objects, and come up with 
>>>> your own state-saving pattern. Rather than come up with a universal 
>>>> format, I assumed every user would have their own custom needs and would 
>>>> prefer their own mechanism.
>>> fair enough, should work for me too!
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 2:41 PM Simon Iten  wrote:
>>>> For MobMuPlat devs or users…
>>>> 
>>>> what is the preferred way to receive data from a multitouch GUI object? 
>>>> i.e. send out a bunch of MIDI CC messages according to 3 or 4 fingers x/y 
>>>> position. (two CC messages per finger)
>>>> i looked at the documentation and i can see the values, but i am stuck at 
>>>> extracting x and y independently for each finger “voice”. i don’t get the 
>>>> magic with [list prepend set] into [list trim], or how i can get a numeric 
>>>> stream (one value per outlet) from it.
>>>> 
>>>> thanks, and sorry if this question is obvious
>>>> 
>>>> also, is there a mechanism to save states like in pdparty? saving to a 
>>>> .sav file and recalling later?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: [PD] MobMuPlat multitouch and preset saving

[hans w. koch]

(slightly hijacking the thread because of love for mobmuplat)

while i am very grateful, that mobmuplat just keeps working on the newest iOS, 
i keep wondering if the recent developments in pd, which made it into libpd 
wouldn´t warrant a new release?
thinking specifically of the text suite of objects, but maybe also things like 
[savestate], [pdcontrol], [slop~].
plus using multiple audio I/O configurations for me always are a bit hit or 
miss.



> Am 14.08.2021 um 00:43 schrieb Simon Iten :
> 
> thanks!
> 
>> On 11 Aug 2021, at 02:38, Daniel Iglesia  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 1) The multitouch widget sends out 4 different streams of data, each sorted 
>> a different way, for different desired usage. In your case, if you listen on 
>> "touchesByVox", the first element is the voice number, so a [route 1 2 3 4 
>> 5] should separate it into a stream per voice. Is that what you get? (it's 
>> been a while since I looked at it)
> it was the touch outlet from route, not touchbyvox which works this way, 
> perfect, thanks!
>> 
>> 2) There is not a single official format for saving, but you can read and 
>> write text files to/from disk with the vanilla objects, and come up with 
>> your own state-saving pattern. Rather than come up with a universal format, 
>> I assumed every user would have their own custom needs and would prefer 
>> their own mechanism.
> fair enough, should work for me too!
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 2:41 PM Simon Iten  wrote:
>> For MobMuPlat devs or users…
>> 
>> what is the preferred way to receive data from a multitouch GUI object? i.e. 
>> send out a bunch of MIDI CC messages according to 3 or 4 fingers x/y 
>> position. (two CC messages per finger)
>> i looked at the documentation and i can see the values, but i am stuck at 
>> extracting x and y independently for each finger “voice”. i don’t get the 
>> magic with [list prepend set] into [list trim], or how i can get a numeric 
>> stream (one value per outlet) from it.
>> 
>> thanks, and sorry if this question is obvious
>> 
>> also, is there a mechanism to save states like in pdparty? saving to a .sav 
>> file and recalling later?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection

[hans w. koch]

> /Applications/Pd-0.51-4.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd ; exit;
seems to indicate, that this is on mac.
not wanting to allege anything, but there once was a hack to the hostconfig 
file to prevent a pirated copy of adobe from phoning home.
i´ve had people in workshops, who were unable to launch pd because they had 
applied this hack overzealous and nuked localhost altogether.

@maurice, i´d suggest to use finder to navigate to /etc (go to folder) and look 
up the host file.
on my mac mojave it looks like this:
##
# Host Database
#
# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
# when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
##
127.0.0.1   localhost
255.255.255.255 broadcasthost
::1 localhost 

hope this helps
hans

> Am 15.07.2021 um 00:20 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> I believe it's a macOS system but the suggestion is still useful. If there is 
> a firewall or application like Little Snitch running, it should add Pd to the 
> whitelist otherwise the Pd core cannot communicate with the Pd GUI.
> 
>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 12:16 AM, Josh Moore  wrote:
>> 
>> On windows he will need to allow pd thru the firewall
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:04 PM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> Something is weird with your system. In general, localhost should *always* 
>> be available.
>> 
>> What happens when you run the following in Terminal with wifi off? Press 
>> CTRL+C to stop once it's running.
>> 
>> ping localhost
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2021, at 9:55 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>>> 
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 09:39:55 +0200
>>> From: Maurice Moncozet 
>>> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>> Subject: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> When I have no internet connection I can start Pd 0.52-2 (iMac Mojave) with
>>> the Terminal by going through Contents/resources/Bin/pd.
>>> But it does not work with Pd 0.52-3 and Pd 0.52-4.
>>> This is what the Terminal reports :
>>> 
>>> Last login: Tue Jul  6 09:30:01 on ttys000
>>> mauricemoncozet-1:~ moncozetmaurice$
>>> /Applications/Pd-0.51-4.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd ; exit;
>>> localhost not found (inet protocol not installed?)
>>> nodename nor servname provided, or not known (8)logout
>>> Saving session...
>>> ...copying shared history...
>>> ...saving history...truncating history files...
>>> ...completed.
>>> 
>>> [Op?ration termin?e]
>>> 
>>> What setting should I make?
>>> Thank you for your response.
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] start pd + choose which settingsfile to load

[hans w. koch]

thank you lucas,

that did the trick :-)

three cheers
hans

> Am 11.07.2021 um 01:14 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> I'm not sure but I think you have to start the terminal in 
> /$PdPath/Contents/Resources/bin
> 
> and not in /$PdPath/Contents/MacOS/Pd
> 
> I can't test on a mac atm.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 7/10/2021 6:55 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> (sorry for winded wording):
>> 
>> on mac os 10.14 i regularily work in both “normal” vanilla and a version 
>> compiled for double.
>> they both share the same settings file - no problem, if i don´t autoload 
>> some library
>> 
>> but now for some reason i need to put zexy into auto loaded libs for vanilla.
>> expectedly, this throws an error  in double:
>> "refusing to load 32bit-float object 'zexy' into 64bit-float Pd”
>> so i saved an "autoload library" free settingsfile für my double.
>> 
>> however, trying to launch with options as described in 
>> http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x3.htm#s4
>> both
>> /Applications/Pd-0.51.4double.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd -prefsfile 
>> /Users/hwk/Documents/Pd/settings_pd-double.pdsettings
>> /Applications/Pd-0.51.4double.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd -noprefs
>> 
>> fail with "unknown option: -prefsfile” or "unknown option: -noprefs”.
>> 
>> thanks in advance for any pointers
>> 
>> hans
>> 
>> 
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[PD] start pd + choose which settingsfile to load

[hans w. koch]

(sorry for winded wording):

on mac os 10.14 i regularily work in both “normal” vanilla and a version 
compiled for double.
they both share the same settings file - no problem, if i don´t autoload some 
library

but now for some reason i need to put zexy into auto loaded libs for vanilla.
expectedly, this throws an error  in double:
"refusing to load 32bit-float object 'zexy' into 64bit-float Pd”
so i saved an "autoload library" free settingsfile für my double.

however, trying to launch with options as described in 
http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x3.htm#s4
both 
/Applications/Pd-0.51.4double.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd -prefsfile 
/Users/hwk/Documents/Pd/settings_pd-double.pdsettings
/Applications/Pd-0.51.4double.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd -noprefs

fail with "unknown option: -prefsfile” or "unknown option: -noprefs”.

thanks in advance for any pointers

hans


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Re: [PD] mtof does cents (hooray!) suggestion to state that in the helpfile

[hans w. koch]

went ahead and did it. (didn´´t find a way to add a label for documentation 
though)
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1345



> Am 25.06.2021 um 22:11 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres :
> 
> open an issue on github https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues I'll do 
> it
> 
> Em sex., 25 de jun. de 2021 às 16:30, hans w. koch  
> escreveu:
> today to my amazement, i discovered, that the midi decimals in mtof equal 
> cents :-)
> sorry, for stating the obvious. better late then never, at least for me…i 
> literally hit my head when i recognized this.
> i´ve searched the archives for "mtof cents” and didn´t find a mention of this.
> 
> now that i´ve outed myself as a dummie, forward on with one suggestion:
> wouldn´t it be helpful for future slowfoxes like me, to mention that somehow 
> in mtofs helpfile?
> at the moment it reads: You can specify microtonal pitches as in "69.5" (a 
> quarter tone higher than 69).
> my suggestion would be to add: The decimals specify cents as in .01 = 1 cent.
> 
> further question:
> i am working in a recent pd vanilla double and was expecting to see more 
> decimals
> e.g. 
> pd: 69.031 into mtof gives 440.789
> javascript: 440 + 3.1 cent gives: 440.78858311490677
> its not that i would claim to hear a difference between 440.789 and 440.7885 
> hz, but i could imagine cases, where working further these roundings 
> accumulate.
> or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?
> 
> best
> hans
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] mtof does cents (hooray!) suggestion to state that in the helpfile

[hans w. koch]

yes, of course :-)
i stated here for [div] and [mod]: 
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2020-09/128152.html
and on git: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1150


> Am 25.06.2021 um 23:20 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
>> not every object is double ready though in my experience.
> 
> It would be very useful if you tell whats not ready. Either here on the 
> "list" or issues on https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues
> 
> :)
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 6/25/2021 6:01 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> yes, i am already using pd double.
>> not every object is double ready though in my experience.
>> sometimes hard to tell apart...
>> 
>> @alexandre: thanks for the offer to file a feature request for the helpfile 
>> change.
>> i can do it too, but wasn´t sure if i should flood the long list with this 
>> trivia.
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>>> Am 25.06.2021 um 22:41 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>>> 
>>>> Also, all numbers in Pd are 32-bit floats while all numbers in JS are 
>>>> 64-bit doubles.
>>> I might be missing something but Hans said he was using "vanilla double"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>> 
>>> On 6/25/2021 5:30 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:
>>>>> or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?
>>>> This.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, all numbers in Pd are 32-bit floats while all numbers in JS are 
>>>> 64-bit doubles.
>>>> 
>>>> Christof
>>>> 
>>>> On 25.06.2021 21:27, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>> today to my amazement, i discovered, that the midi decimals in mtof equal 
>>>>> cents :-)
>>>>> sorry, for stating the obvious. better late then never, at least for me…i 
>>>>> literally hit my head when i recognized this.
>>>>> i´ve searched the archives for "mtof cents” and didn´t find a mention of 
>>>>> this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> now that i´ve outed myself as a dummie, forward on with one suggestion:
>>>>> wouldn´t it be helpful for future slowfoxes like me, to mention that 
>>>>> somehow in mtofs helpfile?
>>>>> at the moment it reads: You can specify microtonal pitches as in "69.5" 
>>>>> (a quarter tone higher than 69).
>>>>> my suggestion would be to add: The decimals specify cents as in .01 = 1 
>>>>> cent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> further question:
>>>>> i am working in a recent pd vanilla double and was expecting to see more 
>>>>> decimals
>>>>> e.g.
>>>>> pd: 69.031 into mtof gives 440.789
>>>>> javascript: 440 + 3.1 cent gives: 440.78858311490677
>>>>> its not that i would claim to hear a difference between 440.789 and 
>>>>> 440.7885 hz, but i could imagine cases, where working further these 
>>>>> roundings accumulate.
>>>>> or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?
>>>>> 
>>>>> best
>>>>> hans
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Re: [PD] mtof does cents (hooray!) suggestion to state that in the helpfile

[hans w. koch]

yes, i am already using pd double. 
not every object is double ready though in my experience.
sometimes hard to tell apart...

@alexandre: thanks for the offer to file a feature request for the helpfile 
change.
i can do it too, but wasn´t sure if i should flood the long list with this 
trivia.

best
hans

> Am 25.06.2021 um 22:41 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
>> Also, all numbers in Pd are 32-bit floats while all numbers in JS are 64-bit 
>> doubles.
> 
> I might be missing something but Hans said he was using "vanilla double"
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 6/25/2021 5:30 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:
>>> or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?
>> This.
>> 
>> Also, all numbers in Pd are 32-bit floats while all numbers in JS are 64-bit 
>> doubles.
>> 
>> Christof
>> 
>> On 25.06.2021 21:27, hans w. koch wrote:
>>> today to my amazement, i discovered, that the midi decimals in mtof equal 
>>> cents :-)
>>> sorry, for stating the obvious. better late then never, at least for me…i 
>>> literally hit my head when i recognized this.
>>> i´ve searched the archives for "mtof cents” and didn´t find a mention of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> now that i´ve outed myself as a dummie, forward on with one suggestion:
>>> wouldn´t it be helpful for future slowfoxes like me, to mention that 
>>> somehow in mtofs helpfile?
>>> at the moment it reads: You can specify microtonal pitches as in "69.5" (a 
>>> quarter tone higher than 69).
>>> my suggestion would be to add: The decimals specify cents as in .01 = 1 
>>> cent.
>>> 
>>> further question:
>>> i am working in a recent pd vanilla double and was expecting to see more 
>>> decimals
>>> e.g.
>>> pd: 69.031 into mtof gives 440.789
>>> javascript: 440 + 3.1 cent gives: 440.78858311490677
>>> its not that i would claim to hear a difference between 440.789 and 
>>> 440.7885 hz, but i could imagine cases, where working further these 
>>> roundings accumulate.
>>> or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?
>>> 
>>> best
>>> hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>> 
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[PD] mtof does cents (hooray!) suggestion to state that in the helpfile

[hans w. koch]

today to my amazement, i discovered, that the midi decimals in mtof equal cents 
:-)
sorry, for stating the obvious. better late then never, at least for me…i 
literally hit my head when i recognized this.
i´ve searched the archives for "mtof cents” and didn´t find a mention of this.

now that i´ve outed myself as a dummie, forward on with one suggestion:
wouldn´t it be helpful for future slowfoxes like me, to mention that somehow in 
mtofs helpfile?
at the moment it reads: You can specify microtonal pitches as in "69.5" (a 
quarter tone higher than 69).
my suggestion would be to add: The decimals specify cents as in .01 = 1 cent.

further question:
i am working in a recent pd vanilla double and was expecting to see more 
decimals
e.g. 
pd: 69.031 into mtof gives 440.789
javascript: 440 + 3.1 cent gives: 440.78858311490677
its not that i would claim to hear a difference between 440.789 and 440.7885 
hz, but i could imagine cases, where working further these roundings accumulate.
or maybe another case of limitation on the display-side of things?

best
hans


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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array ?

[hans w. koch]

ok, i bulit a simple colored 8chan oscilloskope from the pdpatchrepo link given 
by jean-yves.
it fits my needs, though it suffers from some unpleasant flickering - i attach 
it anyway, in case someone finds it useful.
(its “oszi8_color.pd” in the folder. pretty self-explanatory, if you have an 
8ch audio interface, but less is of course possible too)

now i´ll be opening a new topic on how to create one in gem, as joao suggested.
i really have no clue, where to start…

thanks to everybody who contributed to the thread!

best
hans

<>


> Am 29.05.2021 um 12:06 schrieb Jean-Yves Gratius :
> 
> 
> Great !
> If your project is to create a fixed-size oscilloscope abstraction, may be 
> it's a good idea  to check also  the original discussion and patch  by Ingox
> 
> (https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/11184/colarray-a-graphical-array-where-color-and-line-width-can-be-set)
> 
>  , as my work was mainly  to embed it with some extra features (dynamic 
> patching, properties gui, state saving, mobmuplat export) that make 
> complexity grow.
> J.Y.G.
> On 29/05/2021 11:18, hans w. koch wrote:
>> thanks jean-yves,
>> 
>> thats some serious wizzardry and it seems that i could build my oscilliscope 
>> from that :-)
>> have to study it a bit more to really understand, whats going on under the 
>> hood.
>> 
>> in the meantime i built sth with purr data, which has a properties dialogue 
>> with a colorpicker. for arrays.
>> (i wanted sth simple + workable quickly).
>> ultimately i think, that would be good to have in pd as well.
>> 
>> also will check out your mob collection, as i am a big fan of mobmuplat, 
>> which sadly seems dormant but still keeps working on the newest iOS.
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 29.05.2021 um 10:17 schrieb Jean-Yves Gratius :
>>> 
>>> Hi hans,
>>> 
>>> You should try my sarray abstraction (based on this discussion 
>>> https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/11184/colarray-a-graphical-array-where-color-and-line-width-can-be-set)
>>> 
>>> download here https://github.com/jyg/mob/releases/tag/mob-0.1
>>> 
>>> There is some trickery to get an array name with $0 tag, but it's explained
>>> 
>>> J.Y.G.
>>> 
>>>> Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?
>>>> From: "hans w. koch" 
>>>> Date: 28/05/2021 à 22:02
>>>> To: Pd-List 
>>>> 
>>>> thank you, roman and alexandre, for the pointers!
>>>> 
>>>> it seems, the best option is to wait, till the discussion alexandre 
>>>> referenced (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/711) comes to 
>>>> fruition.
>>>> purr data has implemented such a color picker for arrays, so that would be 
>>>> the second best option.
>>>> i looked into Jmmmp multiarray, but i seemed to be better suited at 
>>>> displaying static waveforms.
>>>> maybe i overlooked something.
>>>> 
>>>> i am (ab)using pd as an eight channel oszilloscope.
>>>> things get messy pretty fast without colors.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 28.05.2021 um 14:59 schrieb Roman Haefeli :
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 14:04 +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 13:31 +0200, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>>>> using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase
>>>>>>> differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique
>>>>>>> color to each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
>>>>>>> i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> things, like "Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1]
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> another one "[PD] colored arrays?” from 2007 [2],
>>>>>>> but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!
>>>>>> As someone mentioned in one of the other threads, you could achieve
>>>>>> colored array displays with data structures.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> An example is here:
>>>>>> https://www.netpd.org/fl-hishv.png
>>>>> Probably much closer to what you actually need is the [multiarray] from
>>>>> the jmmmp library. It's in Deken.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roman
>>>>> 
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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array ?

[hans w. koch]

(resending to the list, as i answered to jean-yves privatley only by mistake - 
sorry)
> 
> 
> thanks jean-yves,
> 
> thats some serious wizzardry and it seems that i could build my oscilliscope 
> from that :-)
> have to study it a bit more to really understand, whats going on under the 
> hood.
> 
> in the meantime i built sth with purr data, which has a properties dialogue 
> with a colorpicker. for arrays.
> (i wanted sth simple + workable quickly). 
> ultimately i think, that would be good to have in pd as well.
> 
> also will check out your mob collection, as i am a big fan of mobmuplat, 
> which sadly seems dormant but still keeps working on the newest iOS.
> 
> best
> hans
> 
> 
>> Am 29.05.2021 um 10:17 schrieb Jean-Yves Gratius :
>> 
>> Hi hans,
>> 
>> You should try my sarray abstraction (based on this discussion 
>> https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/11184/colarray-a-graphical-array-where-color-and-line-width-can-be-set)
>> 
>> download here https://github.com/jyg/mob/releases/tag/mob-0.1 
>> 
>> There is some trickery to get an array name with $0 tag, but it's explained
>> 
>> J.Y.G.
>> 
>>> Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?
>>> From: "hans w. koch" 
>>> Date: 28/05/2021 à 22:02
>>> To: Pd-List 
>>> 
>>> thank you, roman and alexandre, for the pointers!
>>> 
>>> it seems, the best option is to wait, till the discussion alexandre 
>>> referenced (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/711) comes to 
>>> fruition.
>>> purr data has implemented such a color picker for arrays, so that would be 
>>> the second best option.
>>> i looked into Jmmmp multiarray, but i seemed to be better suited at 
>>> displaying static waveforms. 
>>> maybe i overlooked something.
>>> 
>>> i am (ab)using pd as an eight channel oszilloscope. 
>>> things get messy pretty fast without colors.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 28.05.2021 um 14:59 schrieb Roman Haefeli :
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 14:04 +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 13:31 +0200, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>>> using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase
>>>>>> differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique
>>>>>> color to each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
>>>>>> i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> things, like "Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1]
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> another one "[PD] colored arrays?” from 2007 [2],
>>>>>> but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!
>>>>> 
>>>>> As someone mentioned in one of the other threads, you could achieve
>>>>> colored array displays with data structures.
>>>>> 
>>>>> An example is here:
>>>>> https://www.netpd.org/fl-hishv.png
>>>> 
>>>> Probably much closer to what you actually need is the [multiarray] from
>>>> the jmmmp library. It's in Deken.
>>>> 
>>>> Roman
>>>> 
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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?

[hans w. koch]

thanks joao,

i looked into multiarray which of course is great,
just for my purpose of creating an oscilloscope, where updating at audiorate is 
crucial, it didn´t seem to be the right candidate.
your answer about limiting data refresh rate seems to confirm my (admittedly 
quick) asessment.

i am trying to kind of model the mordax data eurorack module 
(https://www.mordax.net/products/data) with 8 channels.

best
hans

> Am 29.05.2021 um 00:57 schrieb João Pais :
> 
> A solution already exists for several months, [jmmmp/multiarray]. It is of 
> course an abstraction using the available ressources based on data 
> structures, as since they rely so heavily on tcl/tk are far from efficient. A 
> practical compromise could be to limit the data's velocity, at the expense of 
> the refresh rate (and still not really being cpu efficient).
> 
> 
>> using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase 
>> differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique color to 
>> each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
>> i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and other things, 
>> like "Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1] and another one 
>> "[PD] colored arrays?” from 2007 [2],
>> but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!
>> 
>> if not, would that warrant a sensible feature request?
>> 
>> thanks
>> hans
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array?

[hans w. koch]

using 4 superimposed arrays to show different waveforms (e.g. phase 
differences), i was wondering, if there is a way to assign a unique color to 
each array, to visually better separate the waveforms.
i found a discussion "[PD] Array Enhancements" about that (and other things, 
like "Hide Array name” - still not working) from 2009 [1] and another one "[PD] 
colored arrays?” from 2007 [2],
but no tangible result - or i missed that, then sorry!

if not, would that warrant a sensible feature request?

thanks
hans

[1]: https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-09/072542.html
[2]: https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-11/056251.html


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Re: [PD] Patterns for Pd Documentation

[hans w. koch]

as someone using pd in teaching in a german art academy context,
i agree, that sometimes the assumption that english = international is plain 
wrong (e.g. we have many korean students, for whom german is the second 
language and which are quite lost with english).

but i would like you to consider also a "two tiered” approach, based on my 
observations on how people learn: 
1. keep the english documentation as it is and maybe gradually introduce local 
translations into the helpfile patches with .po file strings (= a lot of work…)
2. around this core, try to coordinate the growing ecosystem of tutorial videos 
(very popular) available in many languages, also written tuts and blogs.
this, to have a kind of maintained ressources pool in all the languages. 
similar to this: https://puredata.info/docs/BooksAboutPd
e.g. how many people do know, that there is a spanish version of johannes 
kreidlers bang book, which -however outdated some of its content is- still 
covers a lot of ground? (i for one used it successfully in a short course with 
spanish only speaking housewives…)

reasoning:
the helpfiles as they are, are helpful only, if one already has some clues 
about the operation of pd. 
but then their (mostly) super concise style makes it easy to pluck information 
from.

but for construction patches / solutions to “real world” problems there is more 
often than not multiple ways to skin one cat.
and i´d say the more the merrier in any language.
the deeper one gets into, the easier it becomes to transcend the language 
barrier (thats my personal experience)
but beginnning is bloody hard in any language.

best
hans


> Am 25.05.2021 um 17:41 schrieb Esteban Viveros :
> 
> Reading this question makes me feel uncomfortable.  How would defining
> above criteria shape the way the documentation is going to be built?
> And isn't using that criteria to define the shape presumptuous, forcing
> you and me to make assumptions about groups of people you're/I'm not
> part of? IMHO, inclusiveness is not achieved with identity politics.
> Thanks thanks a lot for taking a stand and explaining gaps in my 
> communication! What I pretend is to put ourselves open to welcome other 
> points of view, welcome the needs of others than us when they surface. I 
> don't know at this moment how to surface this need without some friction. 
> Sorry about that and I think we can continue from the point of the 
> explicitness of the need of welcoming diverse points of view.
> 
> I'm sorry for not giving you a more interesting/challenging view. I'm
> not saying the documentation cannot be improved, but I fail to see
> obvious problems with it. OTOH, I'm interested to hear about problems
> people face with the current documentation.
> I think you showed strong points of the actual documentation that has to be 
> kept in a review if needed.
> 
> About the point 2. It is addressed to open the scope of feedbacks. I think 
> that the effort to create a new standard for documentation should cover as 
> many opinions as possible at first (like this one). It's like a brainstorm. 
> Then we will try to systematize and organize the material we have in order to 
> constitute a form that satisfies everyone as much as possible with easy 
> maintenance, open to collaborations.
> 
> Thanks again Roman!
> 
> 
> Em ter., 25 de mai. de 2021 às 11:00, Roman Haefeli  
> escreveu:
> Hi
> 
> On Mon, 2021-05-24 at 20:49 -0300, Esteban Viveros wrote:
> 
> > 1. What is the audience that you believe will make use of the Pd
> > documentation? Things like, advanced english speakers, academics, the
> > gender, low/high earning power, if they are programmers, musicians,
> > open source people, nationality... whatever you can write in a few
> > words.
> 
> Reading this question makes me feel uncomfortable.  How would defining
> above criteria shape the way the documentation is going to be built?
> And isn't using that criteria to define the shape presumptuous, forcing
> you and me to make assumptions about groups of people you're/I'm not
> part of? IMHO, inclusiveness is not achieved with identity politics. 
> 
> I'm rather interested in what _you_ think is wrong with existing
> documentation and what _you_ think how it can be improved. I think this
> would lead to a more honest discussion. 
> 
> Just to give you one data point: 
> 
> For me the most important part is a comprehensive reference. Pd already
> covers what I need with the existing help-files (section 5) describing
> object classes and their supported methods. However, the reference is
> only interesting once you know how the language works and when you are
> familiar with its concepts. I learned Pd with the documentation it is
> delivered with. So, the sections 1-4 - for me at least - already did a
> great job at introducing me into Pd. Having said that, it took me years
> until I even tried to use data structures and I am not even sure I
> understand them now.
> 
> I'm sorry for not giving you a more 

Re: [PD] how to get big numbers from array into a file?

[hans w. koch]

there have been a few discussions around this last year (in which i was 
involved).

1. its not about pd 64bit (that is liekly already running on your machine)! its 
about pd double precision, which is possible to compile easily (as i found out, 
being a noob)

2. regarding the makefilename approach: be carefule, if you generate lots of 
numbers:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2020-10/128229.html

3. (one of) the other discussions: Problem With Correct Numbers In Pd Double 
Precision
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2020-09/128107.html

it ain´t easy…



> Am 07.05.2021 um 16:33 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> If your numbers are integers, you can convert them to symbols with 
> [makefilename %d] and add them to a text file, e.g. with [text set].
> 
> If the numbers are floats, you can use [makefilename %f]. Unlike %g, the %f 
> specifier prevents the use of scientific notation. See also 
> https://stackoverflow.com/a/5913115/6063908.
> 
> Works for me (tm).
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 07.05.2021 16:15, ro...@dds.nl wrote:
>> hi,
>> 
>> i'm struggling with the way Pd handles numbers bigger then 99.
>> 
>> i have an array with thousands of numbers, which i write to a file to 
>> analyse them.
>> 
>> however, as soon as a number is bigger then 99 i get the abbreviated 
>> notation and am loosing the lower digits.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> in Pd i can make a big number showing all digits by transforming it into a 
>> symbol, e.g. with makefilename.
>> 
>> but a thus created text-file does not work in a spreadsheet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> probably there's a way to overcome this seemingly limitation, but i've not 
>> found it yet.
>> 
>> anybody with a hint?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> rolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Context menu depending on window focus?

[hans w. koch]

incidentally i noticed the same behaviour today, but found it rather funny 
(macOS 10.14.6)
probably because i am old and grew up with windows not in focus not doing 
anything.

since on macOS other apps behave mostly differently (the non focus window 
accepts control-click), i suspect its a tcl/tk issue.
but what do i know?

cheers hans

> Am 24.04.2021 um 12:48 schrieb Peter P. :
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> on OS X and Linux the context menu of a patch behaves differentely
> whether the window is focussed (foreground) or not.
> 
> Selecting "Help..." for an object in an unfocussed window will open the
> introduction help patch regardless, selecting "Open" for a subpatch or
> abstraction will silently fail. I feel making a right click on an
> unfocussed window should either not open a context menu at all or pull
> that window into the foreground (focus it) and open the menu with its
> correct function. Maybe this is an OS/Tk issue and it is known since
> a long time?
> 
> thanks/regards,
> P
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] can a [clone] instance determine the total number of clones?

[hans w. koch]

i sometimes used the attached idiom, which works in certain circumstances.
(using the [max] object).
christofs solultion is more sane though…

hans

<>


> Am 03.03.2021 um 21:34 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> 
>> I find myself passing in the number of total clones as a parameter.
> Yes, that's the only way.
> 
> 
>> I would like to avoid this if possible.
> Why? Is it only for cosmetic reasons, or for technical reasons?
> 
> Yes, [clone foo 20 20] might look ugly, but it does the job. Personally, I 
> haven't ever needed the number of cloned instances inside an instance... but 
> if you need it frequently, you can make a feature request on GitHub.
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 03.03.2021 20:12, William Huston wrote:
>> Is there a way for a clone instance to determine the total number of clones?
>> 
>> Because often the behavior of a clone depends on its relative position
>> within a chain of instances. 
>> 
>> "I am instance 12 of 100, therefore, I should behave like so"
>> 
>> I find myself passing in the number of total clones as a parameter. 
>> I would like to avoid this if possible. 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> BH
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
>> Binghamton NY
>> 
>> Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
>> Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
>> Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
>> Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [textfile] vs [text define]

[hans w. koch]

+1 in heaping praise on [text] and its comrades: albeit a bit slow with growing 
size, it allows for loads of data manipulation in a very flexible way.

hans

> Am 08.02.2021 um 09:57 schrieb Lorenzo Sutton :
> 
> On 06/02/21 23:28, Christof Ressi wrote:
>> They all operate on binbufs internally, so there shouldn't be a significant 
>> performance difference.
> 
> For certain scenarios I find the -k flag for [text define]  useful as it 
> allows you to save the contents (keep it) with the patch. This (having some 
> data embedded in the patch vs. in an external text file), might be desirable 
> or not, but it's defintely a nice to have the option and AFIK [textfile] 
> deosn't have this kind of option.
> 
> Personally I also like it that you can have different objects which clearly 
> do different things like 'define', 'get', 'insert', 'size', 'tolist' instead 
> of having to look at messages attached to them... Maybe because I've been 
> playing with pseudo-random MIDI generation lately, but this is really a very 
> subjective preference :-)
> 
> Lorenzo.
> 
>> On 06.02.2021 23:18, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>> I guess the advantage is if it runs faster or not, right?
>>> 
>>> Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 18:03, Christof Ressi >> > escreveu:
>>> 
>>>> are there any concrete advantages?
>>>What's the advantage of having two different objects for the same
>>>job?
>>>If you like [textfile] for its simple interface, keep using it.
>>>I'm just
>>>saying that it's more or less obsolete.
>>> 
>>>On 06.02.2021 16:38, João Pais wrote:
>>>> It is surely overall more powerful. But when using it just for
>>>> read/get whole lines/save, are there any concrete advantages?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [text define] is basically a more powerful and flexible
>>>replacement
>>>>> for [textfile] and [qlist]. I would only use [textfile] if you
>>>prefer
>>>>> the simpler interface or need the [add2( method. Personally, I
>>>only
>>>>> use [text define].
>>>>>
>>>>> Christof
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06.02.2021 14:28, João Pais wrote:
>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for simple read/get/save operation, are there are advantages on
>>>>>> using [text define] instead of [textfile]?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jmmmp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Announcing PdWebParty (alpha)

[hans w. koch]

thats really great news, thanks a lot for making this happen!

best

hans

> Am 02.12.2020 um 07:19 schrieb Zack Lee :
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I would like to share my recent work PdWebParty which is a web app that 
> allows you to run Pd patches in a web browser and share them by using a web 
> link. As the name implies, it is inspired by PdDroidParty and PdParty.
> 
> Currently, the app only supports Bang(bng), Toggle(tgl), Canvas(cnv), and 
> Comment but other objects will be added soon.
> 
> You can try the app from https://pdwebparty.herokuapp.com/
> 
> For more information, visit https://github.com/cuinjune/PdWebParty
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Best,
> Zack
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Re: [PD] earplug~ on pd-externals GitHub group

[hans w. koch]

interesting, didn´t know about that ircam site, thanks for sharing!
(and now brought the mail back to pd list, which i omitted in my original post)

good luck with the mac arm64 build - was looking at the specs of their mac mini 
today and some benchmarks, did look interesting.

hans

> Am 19.11.2020 um 02:02 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> I added some basic info about loading custom data sets from what was already 
> there. Maybe that's worth trying. Could be good to have some sort of way to 
> convert something like data from here to earplug~: 
> http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/download.html.
> 
> In any case, we use it in Zirkonium and will need build for mac arm64 soon.
> 
>> On Nov 19, 2020, at 1:57 AM, hans w. koch  wrote:
>> 
>> thanks dan,
>> 
>> this can be very useful!
>> compiled here easily (mac os 10.14.6) and runs in pd 0.51-3
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>>> Am 19.11.2020 um 01:04 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>> 
>>> Howdy all,
>>> 
>>> We use the old, but venerable earplug~ external in a project at work which 
>>> we are currently updating. I went ahead and pulled the earplug~ git dump 
>>> from svn onto a GitHub repo and have made some updates for a version 0.2.2 
>>> release:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug
>>> 
>>> As it's a pure C external with pd-lib-builder, it should be easy to build.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika
>>> danomatika.com
>>> robotcowboy.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 




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Re: [PD] ISO works combining PD and sculpture

[hans w. koch]

i did quite a few (and counting):
mengenlehre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7CfOGga8gU
clock of fifths (app version,made with mobmuplat): 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0V57rxAJoA
clock of fifths (installation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ef9XVDf9U
shanti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxhYZCgtVgg

hth, best

hans

> Am 26.10.2020 um 20:54 schrieb bbob :
> 
> for my students, I'm looking for examples of work that combines PD and 
> sculpture (or installations)... i've got a few of the obvious 
> pd-sequencer-triggering-drum-solenoids to show them, what else?  links to 
> artist sites &/or videos appreciated.
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Re: [PD] RPI stereo USB audio was: audio interface with multiple ins on raspberry pi

[hans w. koch]

…and i thought, i had learned a new trick here :-)

> Am 07.10.2020 um 17:53 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Ja ja, autocorrect... XLR inputs.
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2020, at 5:22 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> From: Christof Ressi 
>> To: Pd-List 
>> Subject: Re: [PD] RPI stereo USB audio was: audio interface with
>>  multiple ins on raspberry pi
>> Message-ID: <8bee4a0b-e882-bf01-c31c-7856294a6...@christofressi.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> 
>>> but I require XML
>> In my experience, XML works just fine on all Raspberry Pi models :-p
>> 
>> On 07.10.2020 17:06, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>> Yeah, I know a lot of these small mini-jack boards work, but I require 
>>> XML and jack inputs and stereo jack outputs.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Concatenating two atoms into one?

[hans w. koch]

but be aware of the risks of invoking makefilname all too often.
it may clutter the symboltable, as per this recent discussion (started by me 
and confirmed by johannes):
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2020-09/128158.html

best
hans


> Am 01.10.2020 um 08:46 schrieb oliver :
> 
> jayrope wrote:
>> Hello list,
>> I want to combine integer values from two sources into ONE new value,
>> preferably a number, just like
>> Source 1 sends 1, source 2 sends 1, result = 11
>> Src 3 sends 3, src 2 sends 8, result = 38
> 
> hi, here's my approach using [makefilename]
> 
> best
> 
> oliver
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Re: [PD] Concatenating two atoms into one?

[hans w. koch]

how about just mulitplying source 1 by 10 and then adding to source 2?
or am i missing something? (patch attached)

hth

hans



combination.pd
Description: Binary data



> Am 01.10.2020 um 00:44 schrieb jayrope :
> 
> Hello list,
> I want to combine integer values from two sources into ONE new value,
> preferably a number, just like
> 
> Source 1 sends 1, source 2 sends 1, result = 11
> Src 3 sends 3, src 2 sends 8, result = 38
> 
> and so on.
> 
> Example patch below. A resulting message combines two values, but
> doesn't forward anything to a subsequent float or number object.
> (OSX 10.9.5, PD 0.50-2)
> 
> 
> #N canvas 405 254 606 341 12;
> #X obj 31 23 hsl 128 15 1 4 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144
> -1 -1 1200 0;
> #X obj 178 23 hsl 128 15 1 4 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144
> -1 -1 3900 0;
> #X obj 204 133 pack 1 1;
> #X obj 28 73 f;
> #X obj 28 43 i;
> #X obj 175 43 i;
> #X floatatom 186 229 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X msg 204 181 11;
> #X msg 204 157 set \$1\$2;
> #X obj 186 205 float;
> #X obj 175 79 t b b f;
> #X connect 0 0 4 0;
> #X connect 1 0 5 0;
> #X connect 2 0 8 0;
> #X connect 3 0 2 0;
> #X connect 4 0 3 0;
> #X connect 5 0 10 0;
> #X connect 7 0 9 0;
> #X connect 8 0 7 0;
> #X connect 9 0 6 0;
> #X connect 10 0 9 0;
> #X connect 10 1 3 0;
> #X connect 10 2 2 1;
> 
> 
> would appreciate a hint. Thanx very much in advance!
> 
> -- 
> jayrope
> +++
> jayrope.com
> aircushionfinish.com
> kliklak.net
> 
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Re: [PD] question regarding symboltable

[hans w. koch]

thanks for confirming, johannes!

for now i settled for breaking up the numbers in chunks of 6 digits without 
using makefilename.
but i agree:
> on the long run, we should just improve the way numbers are written to disk.

best

hans


> Am 24.09.2020 um 13:53 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig :
> 
> On 2020-09-24 10:40, hans w. koch wrote:
>> has this changed somehow since or should it still be avoided?
> 
> nothing changed.
> 
>> or is there a way to “flush” the symboltable at runtime?
> 
> no.
> 
> [makefilename] is definitely the wrong tool to solve the problem
> (although it's probably the one that is available right now, in Pd-vanilla).
> 
> on the long run, we should just improve the way numbers are written to disk.
> 
> gfadsrm
> IOhannes
> 
> 
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[PD] question regarding symboltable

[hans w. koch]

i seem to recall, that using [makefilename] a lot (i.e. in the range of 1e+08) 
will flood the symboltable and at best slow down pd, at worst crash it.
on the pd list i found a thread about that from 2002 with miller saying:
In general, it's a bad idea in Pd to write externs which create indeterminate 
numbers of symbols at run time. 
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2002-09/007966.html

has this changed somehow since or should it still be avoided?
or is there a way to “flush” the symboltable at runtime?

i am asking in the context of pd double, exploring strategies for storing big 
numbers. 
so far the most reliable one involves [makefilename %.0f] and fromsymbol as 
discussed in this thread recently 
(https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2020-09/128113.html).
but if that creates a problem with symboltable, i´d try other options (e.g. 
splitting them up into parts).

thanks for confirming or appeasing my fears

hans





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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision / problem with div and mod

[hans w. koch]

done: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1150

> Am 23.09.2020 um 18:29 schrieb hans w. koch :
> 
> ack, yes, of course…thanks, martin!
> 
> meaning that [div] and [mod] are not “doublified“ yet.
> i gues that warrants an entry in issues.
> 
>> Am 23.09.2020 um 17:27 schrieb Martin Peach :
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 11:19 AM hans w. koch  wrote:
>>> .
>>> but they only go until 2147483647
>>> anything special about this number?
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,147,483,647#In_computing
> 




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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision / problem with div and mod

[hans w. koch]

ack, yes, of course…thanks, martin!

meaning that [div] and [mod] are not “doublified“ yet.
i gues that warrants an entry in issues.

> Am 23.09.2020 um 17:27 schrieb Martin Peach :
> 
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 11:19 AM hans w. koch  wrote:
>> .
>> but they only go until 2147483647
>> anything special about this number?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,147,483,647#In_computing




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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision / problem with div and mod

[hans w. koch]

the onyl thing i don´t like about the [makefilename %.0f] method is, that for 
big amount of data, it may clutter the symboltable.

so i started investigating alternativ ways of storing big numbers in chunks, 
using the [div] and [mod] objects.
but they only go until 2147483647 after which they overflow and produce wrong 
results.

anything special about this number? seems [div] and [mod] are not fully double 
yet.
demo patch attached

hans



big-numbers4_div-mod.pd
Description: Binary data


> Am 23.09.2020 um 10:34 schrieb hans w. koch :
> 
> lucas thanks for alerting me to
>> Attached patch edited to show that it is "no go" using txt files.
> its indeed a major headache :-(
> conclusion: the only reliable way using [text] with big numbers is with 
> from/tosymbol.
> 
> i totally agree, it would be good to be able to write/read 64bit-arrays.
> what i like about [text] is multi column data - though it gets really slow 
> with bigger files.
> 
> hans
> 
>> Am 21.09.2020 um 10:46 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>> 
>> On 9/20/2020 2:38 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>> but would it warrant opening an issue on github?
>> 
>> There should be some way to write/read 64bit arrays in Pd-double. [text] can 
>> be used for other stuff as it is not really efficient inside Pd (even if it 
>> worked without the actual issues).
>> 
>> I think the easiest feature request could be adding [soundfiler] the ability 
>> to "write" with the -raw flag (actually is only for "reading") and also 
>> making it able to handle 8 bytes per value.
>> 
>> A little discussion here might lead Hans or me to issue some request.
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> 
>> Attached patch edited to show that it is "no go" using txt files.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>> 
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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

lucas thanks for alerting me to
> Attached patch edited to show that it is "no go" using txt files.
its indeed a major headache :-(
conclusion: the only reliable way using [text] with big numbers is with 
from/tosymbol.

i totally agree, it would be good to be able to write/read 64bit-arrays.
what i like about [text] is multi column data - though it gets really slow with 
bigger files.

hans

> Am 21.09.2020 um 10:46 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> On 9/20/2020 2:38 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> but would it warrant opening an issue on github?
> 
> There should be some way to write/read 64bit arrays in Pd-double. [text] can 
> be used for other stuff as it is not really efficient inside Pd (even if it 
> worked without the actual issues).
> 
> I think the easiest feature request could be adding [soundfiler] the ability 
> to "write" with the -raw flag (actually is only for "reading") and also 
> making it able to handle 8 bytes per value.
> 
> A little discussion here might lead Hans or me to issue some request.
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Attached patch edited to show that it is "no go" using txt files.
> 
> 
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

thanks johannes,

for the clarification! 
always better to know, there is no magic involved :-)
(though i wasn´t implying [text] but the .txt format, which i believed to be 
“external" to pd, if that makes sense - appearantly not).

as long as there are workarounds, i can live with that.
a fix is quite likely waaayyy beyond my capabilities.
but would it warrant opening an issue on github?
i am a bit shy for finding the correct wording…

best

hans


> Am 20.09.2020 um 17:32 schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig :
> 
> Am 20. September 2020 16:41:56 MESZ schrieb "hans w. koch" 
> :
>> yeah, this is consistent with my findings too…
>> it just mystifies me, why writing the contents of [text] containing
>> symbols to a .txt file and reloading converts them silently back to
>> floats, perserving precision.
>> seems like the .txt file format does some behind-the-scenes magic.
> 
> 
> hmm, no.
> the behaviour you are seeing is exactly because [text] does NOT do any behind 
> the scenes magic.
> 
> all the problems come from the fact that the default string-representation 
> (and only the string-representation) of numbers is too coarse for 
> double-precision.
> 
> 
> mfg.hft.fsl
> IOhannes
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

yeah, this is consistent with my findings too…
it just mystifies me, why writing the contents of [text] containing symbols to 
a .txt file and reloading converts them silently back to floats, perserving 
precision.
seems like the .txt file format does some behind-the-scenes magic.

(adapted your patch to demonstrate, also Pd-double only)

hans



big-numbers2.pd
Description: Binary data



> Am 20.09.2020 um 12:40 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> Interesting I got into troubles storing big numbers into a [text] using the 
> -k flag but this can be solved using [list fromsymbol] / [list tosymbol].
> 
> See attached patch (needs Pd-double).
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 9/19/2020 3:38 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> just to report another weirdness:
>> if i
>> 1. write those big numbers  (e.g. 8278095582780955) with [text set] to a 
>> [text define ] with [makefilename %.0f] (i used this to avoid unnecessary 
>> decimal points)
>> 2. then write the textfile to disk as .txt
>> 3. read it in again
>> the symbols are automatically converted to exponential notation (8.2781e+15) 
>> inside the [text]/textfile, BUT retain their full precision!
>> 
>> but in order for this to work, they have to be written to the [text] as 
>> symbols with [makefilename %.0f] first.
>> 
>> weird, ain´t it?
>> 
>> hans
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 19.09.2020 um 10:49 schrieb hans w. koch :
>>> 
>>> arrghhh…sometimes live can be so easy :-)
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> hans
>>> 
>>>> Am 19.09.2020 um 10:45 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>>>> 
>>>> I think you can convert symbol back to float just using [f ].
>>>> 
>>>> [123123123(
>>>> |
>>>> [makefilename %f]
>>>> |
>>>> [t a 0]
>>>> | |
>>>> [text set foo]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [0(
>>>> |
>>>> [text get foo]
>>>> |
>>>> [f ]
>>>> |
>>>> [print]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> :)
>>>> 
>>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/19/2020 4:16 AM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>> thanks lucas,
>>>>> 
>>>>> transitioning numbers over to symbolland could solve my problem, 
>>>>> interesting to know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> i need to store some of the big numbers in a textfile and there i get the 
>>>>> same problems with representation.
>>>>> if i recall them later, they´ve lost their precision.
>>>>> so i can make the transition back from symboldland with a bit of fudi 
>>>>> objects voodoo and be good :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> what i use is this:
>>>>> [makefilename %f]
>>>>> |
>>>>> [list trim symbol]
>>>>> |
>>>>> [fudiformat -u]
>>>>> |
>>>>> [fudiparse]
>>>>> 
>>>>> and have my number back from symbol.
>>>>> 
>>>>> best
>>>>> hans
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 19.09.2020 um 05:32 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you want to print the numbers nicely to the console add [makefilename 
>>>>>> %f] :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [t b f]
>>>>>>  |
>>>>>>  [makefilename %f]
>>>>>>  |
>>>>>>  [print count]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Be aware of https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/812
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/18/2020 6:12 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>>>> hello,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> its probably due to my lack of understanding the correct number 
>>>>>>> representations, but here it goes anyway:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i compiled pd 51-2 double precision for mac 10.14.6
>>>>>>> with this version i was hoping to do some maths on big numbers.
>>>>>>> but already an increment of 1 on some moderatly big number gives me 
>>>>>>> problems of representation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i made a simple version of the problem as a patch.
>>>>>>> to verify you have a working version of pd double, it contains a simple 
>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>> and then an iterative addition +1 starting from 99.
>>>>>>> i get this:
>>>>>>> count: 99
>>>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1.0e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the algorith terminates succesfully by a [select] after 10 iterations, 
>>>>>>> but the results don´t show what i expect.
>>>>>>> this to me indicates, that the internal numbers are correct, but they 
>>>>>>> don´t “surface” as such.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i would be grateful for any pointers and possible workarounds, as the 
>>>>>>> numbers i hope to be dealing with are potentially orders of magnitude 
>>>>>>> higher.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> thanks hans
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

just to report another weirdness:
if i 
1. write those big numbers  (e.g. 8278095582780955) with [text set] to a [text 
define ] with [makefilename %.0f] (i used this to avoid unnecessary decimal 
points)
2. then write the textfile to disk as .txt
3. read it in again
the symbols are automatically converted to exponential notation (8.2781e+15) 
inside the [text]/textfile, BUT retain their full precision!

but in order for this to work, they have to be written to the [text] as symbols 
with [makefilename %.0f] first.

weird, ain´t it?

hans



> Am 19.09.2020 um 10:49 schrieb hans w. koch :
> 
> arrghhh…sometimes live can be so easy :-)
> 
> cheers 
> hans
> 
>> Am 19.09.2020 um 10:45 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>> 
>> I think you can convert symbol back to float just using [f ].
>> 
>> [123123123(
>> |
>> [makefilename %f]
>> |
>> [t a 0]
>> | |
>> [text set foo]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [0(
>> |
>> [text get foo]
>> |
>> [f ]
>> |
>> [print]
>> 
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>> 
>> On 9/19/2020 4:16 AM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>> thanks lucas,
>>> 
>>> transitioning numbers over to symbolland could solve my problem, 
>>> interesting to know.
>>> 
>>> i need to store some of the big numbers in a textfile and there i get the 
>>> same problems with representation.
>>> if i recall them later, they´ve lost their precision.
>>> so i can make the transition back from symboldland with a bit of fudi 
>>> objects voodoo and be good :-)
>>> 
>>> what i use is this:
>>> [makefilename %f]
>>> |
>>> [list trim symbol]
>>> |
>>> [fudiformat -u]
>>> |
>>> [fudiparse]
>>> 
>>> and have my number back from symbol.
>>> 
>>> best
>>> hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 19.09.2020 um 05:32 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to print the numbers nicely to the console add [makefilename 
>>>> %f] :
>>>> 
>>>> [t b f]
>>>>  |
>>>>  [makefilename %f]
>>>>  |
>>>>  [print count]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Be aware of https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/812
>>>> 
>>>> :)
>>>> 
>>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/18/2020 6:12 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>>> hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> its probably due to my lack of understanding the correct number 
>>>>> representations, but here it goes anyway:
>>>>> 
>>>>> i compiled pd 51-2 double precision for mac 10.14.6
>>>>> with this version i was hoping to do some maths on big numbers.
>>>>> but already an increment of 1 on some moderatly big number gives me 
>>>>> problems of representation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> i made a simple version of the problem as a patch.
>>>>> to verify you have a working version of pd double, it contains a simple 
>>>>> test.
>>>>> and then an iterative addition +1 starting from 99.
>>>>> i get this:
>>>>> count: 99
>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>>> count: 1.0e+06
>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>>> 
>>>>> the algorith terminates succesfully by a [select] after 10 iterations, 
>>>>> but the results don´t show what i expect.
>>>>> this to me indicates, that the internal numbers are correct, but they 
>>>>> don´t “surface” as such.
>>>>> 
>>>>> i would be grateful for any pointers and possible workarounds, as the 
>>>>> numbers i hope to be dealing with are potentially orders of magnitude 
>>>>> higher.
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks hans
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>>>>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
> 




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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

arrghhh…sometimes live can be so easy :-)

cheers 
hans

> Am 19.09.2020 um 10:45 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> I think you can convert symbol back to float just using [f ].
> 
> [123123123(
> |
> [makefilename %f]
> |
> [t a 0]
> | |
> [text set foo]
> 
> 
> 
> [0(
> |
> [text get foo]
> |
> [f ]
> |
> [print]
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 9/19/2020 4:16 AM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> thanks lucas,
>> 
>> transitioning numbers over to symbolland could solve my problem, interesting 
>> to know.
>> 
>> i need to store some of the big numbers in a textfile and there i get the 
>> same problems with representation.
>> if i recall them later, they´ve lost their precision.
>> so i can make the transition back from symboldland with a bit of fudi 
>> objects voodoo and be good :-)
>> 
>> what i use is this:
>> [makefilename %f]
>> |
>> [list trim symbol]
>> |
>> [fudiformat -u]
>> |
>> [fudiparse]
>> 
>> and have my number back from symbol.
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 19.09.2020 um 05:32 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
>>> 
>>> If you want to print the numbers nicely to the console add [makefilename 
>>> %f] :
>>> 
>>> [t b f]
>>>   |
>>>   [makefilename %f]
>>>   |
>>>   [print count]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Be aware of https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/812
>>> 
>>> :)
>>> 
>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>> 
>>> On 9/18/2020 6:12 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>> hello,
>>>> 
>>>> its probably due to my lack of understanding the correct number 
>>>> representations, but here it goes anyway:
>>>> 
>>>> i compiled pd 51-2 double precision for mac 10.14.6
>>>> with this version i was hoping to do some maths on big numbers.
>>>> but already an increment of 1 on some moderatly big number gives me 
>>>> problems of representation.
>>>> 
>>>> i made a simple version of the problem as a patch.
>>>> to verify you have a working version of pd double, it contains a simple 
>>>> test.
>>>> and then an iterative addition +1 starting from 99.
>>>> i get this:
>>>> count: 99
>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>> count: 1e+06
>>>> count: 1.0e+06
>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>> count: 1.1e+06
>>>> 
>>>> the algorith terminates succesfully by a [select] after 10 iterations, but 
>>>> the results don´t show what i expect.
>>>> this to me indicates, that the internal numbers are correct, but they 
>>>> don´t “surface” as such.
>>>> 
>>>> i would be grateful for any pointers and possible workarounds, as the 
>>>> numbers i hope to be dealing with are potentially orders of magnitude 
>>>> higher.
>>>> 
>>>> thanks hans
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
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>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
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Re: [PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

thanks lucas,

transitioning numbers over to symbolland could solve my problem, interesting to 
know.

i need to store some of the big numbers in a textfile and there i get the same 
problems with representation.
if i recall them later, they´ve lost their precision.
so i can make the transition back from symboldland with a bit of fudi objects 
voodoo and be good :-)

what i use is this:
[makefilename %f]
|
[list trim symbol]
|
[fudiformat -u]
|
[fudiparse]

and have my number back from symbol.

best
hans



> Am 19.09.2020 um 05:32 schrieb Lucas Cordiviola :
> 
> If you want to print the numbers nicely to the console add [makefilename %f] :
> 
> [t b f]
>   |
>   [makefilename %f]
>   |
>   [print count]
> 
> 
> Be aware of https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/812
> 
> :)
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 9/18/2020 6:12 PM, hans w. koch wrote:
>> hello,
>> 
>> its probably due to my lack of understanding the correct number 
>> representations, but here it goes anyway:
>> 
>> i compiled pd 51-2 double precision for mac 10.14.6
>> with this version i was hoping to do some maths on big numbers.
>> but already an increment of 1 on some moderatly big number gives me problems 
>> of representation.
>> 
>> i made a simple version of the problem as a patch.
>> to verify you have a working version of pd double, it contains a simple test.
>> and then an iterative addition +1 starting from 99.
>> i get this:
>> count: 99
>> count: 1e+06
>> count: 1e+06
>> count: 1e+06
>> count: 1e+06
>> count: 1e+06
>> count: 1.0e+06
>> count: 1.1e+06
>> count: 1.1e+06
>> count: 1.1e+06
>> 
>> the algorith terminates succesfully by a [select] after 10 iterations, but 
>> the results don´t show what i expect.
>> this to me indicates, that the internal numbers are correct, but they don´t 
>> “surface” as such.
>> 
>> i would be grateful for any pointers and possible workarounds, as the 
>> numbers i hope to be dealing with are potentially orders of magnitude higher.
>> 
>> thanks hans
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
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[PD] problem with correct numbers in pd double precision

[hans w. koch]

hello,

its probably due to my lack of understanding the correct number 
representations, but here it goes anyway:

i compiled pd 51-2 double precision for mac 10.14.6
with this version i was hoping to do some maths on big numbers.
but already an increment of 1 on some moderatly big number gives me problems of 
representation.

i made a simple version of the problem as a patch.
to verify you have a working version of pd double, it contains a simple test.
and then an iterative addition +1 starting from 99.
i get this:
count: 99
count: 1e+06
count: 1e+06
count: 1e+06
count: 1e+06
count: 1e+06
count: 1.0e+06
count: 1.1e+06
count: 1.1e+06
count: 1.1e+06

the algorith terminates succesfully by a [select] after 10 iterations, but the 
results don´t show what i expect.
this to me indicates, that the internal numbers are correct, but they don´t 
“surface” as such.

i would be grateful for any pointers and possible workarounds, as the numbers i 
hope to be dealing with are potentially orders of magnitude higher.

thanks hans




pd_double_numberproblem.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-2 released (updates to pd~ object)

[hans w. koch]

its not, that i don´t like it :-)

> Am 09.09.2020 um 01:52 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres :
> 
> 
> 
> Em ter., 8 de set. de 2020 às 20:31, hans w. koch  
> escreveu:
> you know that in your release notes for 0.51-1 you have an almost freudian 
> slip refering to the next mac os as "Bug Sur” :-)
> 
> yup, he knew... he was warned but this was intentionally kept :) 
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/740212e66012d35ee14eb0fc3fb9a81841025be7
>  




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-2 released (updates to pd~ object)

[hans w. koch]

thanks miller!

you know that in your release notes for 0.51-1 you have an almost freudian slip 
refering to the next mac os as "Bug Sur” :-)
http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x5.htm

cheers
hans

> Am 09.09.2020 um 01:04 schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-announce 
> :
> 
> To Pd-announce:
> 
> Pd version 0.51-2 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm or
> via github.  Updates to the pd~ object, particularly fixing problems when 
> there
> is white space in the path to pd (as in "Program Files").  The pd~ object is
> now also working in Max/MSP.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] messages to array define

[hans w. koch]

hello,

probably a memory malfunction on my part…but:
how do i tell an [arry define] to display its contents in points rather than 
bezier?

the [arry define]-helpfile also mentions: "... other messages are also 
forwarded to the array like those above - xticks, etc, and also lists to set 
values.”
are these messages documented somewhere?
(i seem to recall that this was listed someplace…if i only could remember 
where…)

pd 0.51.1., mac os x 10.14.6

thanks for any pointers

hans


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Re: [PD] getting vanilla gui objects into standalone builds

[hans w. koch]

well, as a relative oldie, let me tell you this is wrong :-)
last commit to github 5 days ago: https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data
last relase: 26 days ago (14 committs since): 
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/releases

or your world is aging fatser than mine…

hth
hans

> Am 28.06.2020 um 16:28 schrieb henry birdseye :
> 
> As a relative newbie to PD, let me suggest that PurrData is old, and 
> incomplete. Unless you have a very specific reason for using it, PD Vanilla 
> is the one to use. 
> 
> On 6/28/2020 9:42 AM, Jakob Laue wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Alright, so I have looked a little bit into pdparty and mobmuplat. Seriously 
>> these are cool projects!
>> But I would like to have standalone apps, so it seems that I cannot use both 
>> of them..
>> Maybe I need to go for ofelia then or try native coding.
>>  
>> But it is also interesting what you mentioned about purr-data. I have heard 
>> of it a lot, but i dont know what it is. You mentioned that purr-data is 
>> able to port the native guis to non-tk-frameworks. Does this mean e.g. 
>> porting to iOS? I guess I need to take a look into purr-data as well:)
>>  
>> All the best, jakob
>>  
>>  
>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 um 20:15 Uhr
>> Von: "Dan Wilcox" 
>> An: "Jakob Laue" 
>> Cc: "Pd-List" , "Christof Ressi" 
>> , "enrike" 
>> Betreff: Re: [PD] getting vanilla gui objects into standalone builds
>> Howdy Jakob,
>>  
>> There is no "standalone GUI" for mobile. The UI widgets for PdDroidParty and 
>> my own PdParty are custom re-implementations which intercept messages using 
>> sends/receives. Both apps are open source, so you can reuse the widgets but 
>> PdDroidParty's implementation is not feature complete, ie. no radio buttons, 
>> etc. MobMuPlat, for instance, uses the Pd UI implementation form PdParty.
>>  
>> For mobile, it's often better to use the native sliders and buttons and send 
>> the state changes to/from libpd. Either way, you will have to do native 
>> platform coding & integration, unless you simply want to run patches, in 
>> which case try using PdParty and/or PdDroidParty.
>>  
>> My long-term plan is to bring changes into libpd & the pd core so GUI 
>> messaging could be abstracted to make porting the native UIs to non-Tk 
>> frameworks easier. Purr-data has achieved this, for instance, so we know 
>> it's possible.
>>  
>> On Jun 21, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Christof Ressi  wrote:
>>  
>> Hi,
>> 
>> on desktop it's easy: just bundle Pd with your patch, add a simple starter 
>> script and maybe use the KIOSK plugin to hide the console.
>> 
>> Mobile is tricky, because of the locked down nature of the platforms 
>> (especially iOS). There are projects to run Pd patches on Android 
>> (http://droidparty.net/) and iOS (http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty) with 
>> some compatibility between the two 
>> (http://danomatika.com/code/pdparty/guide#pddroid-party-compatibility). You 
>> have to follow some conventions, though.
>> 
>> If you design your patch for PdParty and/or PdDroidParty and don't use 
>> mobile specific features, it should automatically work in desktop Pd 
>> vanilla. I think @Dan can tell you more about it.
>> 
>> Christof
>> 
>> On 21.06.2020 12:16, Jakob Laue wrote:
>> Hey dear friends,
>> i am currently building an instrument with many vanilla-native gui objects 
>> (mainly buttons).
>> I would like to build standalone versions of that patch, preferably for 
>> linux, osx, ios and android.
>> I know that building standalones is possible eg with ofxPof or ofelia. But 
>> as far as i know, if i use ofxPof or ofelia, I will need to use "their" gui 
>> objects, which means re-working my patch.
>>  
>> Do you know of a tool that allows building standalone versions from a pd 
>> patch that will keep the original pd-vanilla-gui objects - or even better - 
>> a tool that is able to "convert" pd-vanilla-gui objects into its own types 
>> of gui objects, which look maybe a bit different from the pd-object, but 
>> fulfill the same purpose?
>>  
>> :-)))
>>  
>> Best, jakob
>>
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>> 
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Re: [PD] Can someone build midifile for mac and linux?

[hans w. koch]

i gave it a go…midifile.pd_darwin zipped inside a zipped folder :-)
works on my machine (mac os10.14.6). 
the midifil- help has a problem, as the subpatch midifile_read is in vain 
looking for a file “wowo.mid”.

get it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n73968w7ej6d94w/midifile_darwin.zip

best
hans 



> Am 07.06.2020 um 19:25 schrieb William Brent :
> 
> Hmm, Gmail won't let me attach the Mac OS d_fat or pd_darwin here. I'll 
> upload it later today and send you a link directly...
> 
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:07 PM William Brent  wrote:
> Here's a build of midifile for Linux x86_64. Switching over to Mac OS now to 
> get you that as well.
> 
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 11:37 AM João Pais  wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> Martin Peach has released a new version of midifile. But since in the 
> present situation he's not able to get to his computers, the binaries 
> for the mac and linux versions can't be built and uploaded to deken.
> 
> Would it be possible for someone with build powers to build these two 
> binaries? Here are the instructions sent by Martin:
> 
> 
> You can get the code from the sourceforge repository:
> svn checkouthttps://svn.code.sf.net/p/pure-data/svn/trunk  pure-data-svn
> 
> I added the pd-lib-builder to the mrpeach directory in trunk/externals
> so you just have to go there and type 'make' and see if it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone can send that to me, I can make them arrive to the correct place.
> 
> Best,
> Joao
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] canvas window "relocate" message strangeness ...

[hans w. koch]

hi,

on mac os 10.14.6 and pd 51-0 i don´t see scrollbars in any your examples 
(i don´t have the propertybang installed, so your last case doesn´t apply)

am i missing sth?

best
hans

> Am 05.06.2020 um 01:40 schrieb oliver :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i just discovered a really strange phenomenon when opening patch windows with 
> remote messages
> 
> Attached is a test patch that presents the "problem":
> 
> The window is always opening with active scroll sidebars, even though there's 
> nothing to scroll.
> 
> The only exception is, when the "relocate" message mechanism is done "by 
> hand". Messages that are sent remotely or with a delay produce the scrollbars.
> 
> It really seems that the visual representation of a clicked BANG or a 
> [message box( comes into play here, though i don't understand how or why.
> 
> It seems as if only as long as the window messages are passed WITHIN the 
> "visual representation time" (in lack of a better description ... i mean the 
> short thickening of the border of a message box when it is clicked with the 
> mouse) the window is opening as it should (without sidebars).
> 
> I discovered this phenomenon using the [propertybang] external from IEMGUTS, 
> where the window would only open with said sidebars.
> 
> To make matters worse, this behaviour is not consistent, but seems a little 
> random. What's sure though, is that only a direct mouseclick onto a bang or 
> message box reliably opens the window without sidebars.
> 
> Feels a little voodoo-ish to me ...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Oliver
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-0 released

[hans w. koch]

usually the changes are documented here:
http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x5.htm

best
hans

> Am 06.06.2020 um 12:56 schrieb Peter P. :
> 
> Thank you so much Miller!
> 
> I can't seem to find some changelog or info for users what has changed.
> Where would I best look? src/CHANGELOG seems to be rather old.
> 
> best, P
> 
> * Miller Puckette via Pd-announce  [2020-06-06 
> 04:51]:
>> To Pd-announce:
>> 
>> Pd version 0.51-0 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
>> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data .
>> 
>> cheers
>> Miller
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [clone] with individual signal inlets/outlets exposed ?

[hans w. koch]

+1 for dynamic change in instance numbers

has come up here before…

best
hans

> Am 06.06.2020 um 11:31 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> You are missing clone individual instance outlets and I’m missing dynamic 
> clone instance numbers.
> 
> I’d like to be able send a message to clone to change the number of instances 
> so the server could save a bit more resources beyond using [switch~]. This is 
> important for performance scaling between working on a project on a Macbook 
> Air then performing with it live on a Mac Pro in the studio. More 
> importantly, we have older projects which use large multi-channel files, so 
> it would be nice to dynamically change the sound file outputs individually up 
> to 32 channels. My only thought for these is to have separate *light* and 
> *heavy* server patches which load different instances of the main 
> abstractions with more or less numbers. Eh, seems clunky too.
> 
> enohp ym morf tnes
> ---
> Dan Wilcox
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> On Jun 6, 2020, at 10:47 AM, baptiste chatel  
> wrote:
> 
>> That looks like an impressive bit of work !
>> I did something along thoses lines a while ago, while at a smaller scale. In 
>> the end, i guess the "clunkiness" was too much for me to deal with.
>> But that was pre intelligent patching era ! That's why i can now think about 
>> simply connecting multi-i/os objects (IEM ambisonics plugins with 
>> [vstplugin~]) together in a blink, and scale the number of i/o as i need 
>> without resorting to workarounds, and more importantly without having to 
>> re-engineer what looks like a simple thing (in my head, that is). So now i 
>> feel that since we can connect a great number of cable easily, we should be 
>> able to multiply objects in the same way.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le ven. 5 juin 2020 à 21:22, Dan Wilcox  a écrit :
>> I think you can also be clever about the mixing and the outputs...
>> 
>> In my case, I usually end up with an output abstraction to [dac~]:
>> 
>> [receive~ out$1]
>> |
>> [*~] <--- some gain control input
>> |
>> [dac~ $1]
>> 
>> A use case would be the zirk_id -> zirk_speaker -> zirk_output handling in 
>> the ZKM Zirkonium server patches:
>> 
>> https://github.com/ZKM-IMA/ZirkoniumSpatializationServer
>> 
>> (It's currently macOS-only as it includes custom binaries for the 
>> spatialization algorithms. I will probably fix this by fall.)
>> 
>> In this case, Zirkonium has the following layout:
>> 
>> 64 live input channels
>> 64 input sound files (with 8 channels)
>> 64 IDs aka objects mapping between input channels (live or sound file) and 
>> spatialization algorithms to virtual speakers
>> 64 virtual speakers wich are mapped to outputs
>> 64 output dac~ wrappers
>> 
>> The ID objects & spat algo wrappers use additional clones internally to map 
>> each channel to all of the virtual speakers. I imagine a setup like this 
>> could work for you. A [zirk_vbap] object, for example, has an internal clone 
>> with [zirk_dispatcher]s which handle the connections between the named 
>> sends~/receives~. It's a little clunky but it works.
>> 
>> I think a bunch of giant 64-channel output objects would also be clunky and 
>> also work, but in a different way. :)
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 8:43 PM, baptiste chatel  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Clever, but you have to do a repetitive error-prone lengthy clicky process 
>>> either on the send side or on the receive side.
>>> Since in my case i have four 16-tracks sends to a 64 by 16 matrix (3rd 
>>> order ambisonics monitoring), i mitigated the issue by making an 
>>> abstraction containing 16 settable sends, taking a float as an argument for 
>>> the first send number. On the other side, i still had to make 64 unique 
>>> receives...
>>> 
>>> Le ven. 5 juin 2020 à 20:23, Dan Wilcox  a écrit :
>>> Your abstraction can have a named [send~] which you can receive into your 
>>> matrix. Use the $1 id assigned by clone to differentiate the sends, ie.
>>> 
>>> In abstraction:
>>> 
>>> |
>>> [send~ out$1]
>>> 
>>> For matrix:
>>> 
>>> [receive~ out1]  [receive~ out2] [receive~ out3]
>>> ||   |
>>> [matrix  -   -  ...]
>>> 
>>> etc
>>> 
>>> In this way, the [clone] itself has no outputs, but you have all of the 
>>> outputs via [send~]. I use this approach very often.
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2020, at 7:49 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
 
 Message: 5
 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 19:20:36 +0200
 From: baptiste chatel 
 To: Pd-List 
 Subject: [PD] [clone] with individual signal inlets/outlets exposed ?
 Message-ID:

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 Would it be possible to have a [clone] option that allows clones individual
 signal inlets/outlets to be exposed ?
 
 An example : i need to make 64 of the following patch :
 [receive~ thing-$1]
 |
 [outlet~]
 that should go to a matrix, $1 in [1:64].
 
 [clone] is useless 

Re: [PD] compiling pd-0.51-0test2 on mac os 10.14.6 / INSTALL.txt

[hans w. koch]

as a friendly reminder i just opened an issue for that on github
and made a (naive) suggestion.

hope that wasn´t inappropriate,

best 
hans

> Am 30.05.2020 um 20:53 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Feel free to edit INSTALL.txt...
> 
>> On May 30, 2020, at 6:53 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> a) ./configure CPPFLAGS="-DPD_FLOATSIZE=64"
>> 
>> (for all subsequent calls to "make")
>> 
>> b) make CPPFLAGS="-DPD_FLOATSIZE=64"
>> 
>> (only for this call to "make")
>> 
>> 
>> Looks like these instructions are still missing in the INSTALL.txt...
>> 
>> Christof
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] compiling pd-0.51-0test2 on mac os 10.14.6

[hans w . koch]

hello,

following the friendly nudging from christof, i tried to install a pd-double on 
my mac.
i tried to follow the “install.txt” provided with the pd-0.51-0test2.src.tar.gz
i managed to produce an “ordinary” Pd-0.51.0 app…at least something :-)

but:
what is unclear, 1. at which stage and 2.how i specify, that i want a double pd 
to result?
./configure ?
make?
make app?

in the mac specific README.txt it says:
If you want to build a 64 bit Pd, perform the same steps and use the build-mac64
script:
  ./build-mac64 0.47-1

which i couldn´t find...

thanks for any pointers!

hans


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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.51-0 test 1 released

[hans w. koch]

thanks for nudging my laziness…i´ll give it a spin :-)

hans

> Am 29.05.2020 um 11:31 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
>> so far i compiled nicolas danets “spaghettis” pd fork 
>> (https://github.com/Spaghettis/Spaghettis), but i guess its now time to try 
>> and compile pd myself.
>> unless some kind and more knowledgable soul provides a binary for mac, hint, 
>> hint :-)
> If you managed to compile "spaghettis" from source, than compiling Pd should 
> be no big deal. Did you give it a try? The INSTALL.txt contains the necessary 
> info.
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 29.05.2020 11:25, hans w. koch wrote:
>> thanks, christof,
>> 
>> that makes sense.
>> a more general question: is that the plan for a transisiton period or will 
>> it stay that way for the foreseeable future?
>> 
>> apart from the obvious profits for the playback of longer soundfiles and the 
>> ones specified in katjas research some time ago 
>> (http://www.katjaas.nl/doubleprecision/doubleprecision.html),
>> i use double for simple math tasks involving really big numbers.
>> 
>> so far i compiled nicolas danets “spaghettis” pd fork 
>> (https://github.com/Spaghettis/Spaghettis), but i guess its now time to try 
>> and compile pd myself.
>> unless some kind and more knowledgable soul provides a binary for mac, hint, 
>> hint :-)
>> (dan wilcox did one for pd50-2 some time ago)
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>>> Am 29.05.2020 um 10:48 schrieb Christof Ressi :
>>> 
>>> Hi Hans,
>>> 
>>> it means that Pd can be compiled -DPD_FLOATSIZE=64, so it will use 64-bit 
>>> doubles instead of 32-bit floats everywhere, and all built-in objects 
>>> should still work as expected.
>>> 
>>> This has advantages (better precision/stability for certain filters, large 
>>> precise table indicies, etc.) and possible disadvantages (needs more 
>>> memory, some code paths might be a bit slower).
>>> 
>>> Currently, we only ship the good old single precision builds, but people 
>>> can compile double precision builds from source for themselves to 
>>> experiment with.
>>> 
>>> Christof
>>> 
>>> On 29.05.2020 08:58, hans w. koch wrote:
>>>> excited about that release, thanks to all involved!
>>>> 
>>>>> * maybe mention that Pd is now double precision ready?
>>>> what does that exactly mean? is it in, but not enabled or is it a subset?
>>>> ( certainly its not a marketing scam as these tv sets labeled “HD ready” 
>>>> :-)
>>>> 
>>>> thanks for clarification,
>>>> 
>>>> hans
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[hans w. koch]

(had replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by mistake.)

that annoying behaviour is called notarization and should protect the galaxy 
from evil bananas.
the delay could be caused by the notarization process checking against an 
internal database of good actors and in case there is no entry trying to do so 
online.
i´ve heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem integrity 
protection), but i am on mojave, which is slightly less annoying.

in addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check if that assumption 
about notarization is true, there is some info here:
https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896
so the test would be to measure with and without that stuff…but thats certainly 
not a generally recommandable case.

best
hans

> Am 29.05.2020 um 10:42 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> 
>> Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just something stupid that macOS now does 
>> for ALL applications. 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/12/23/apple-will-enforce-app-notarization-for-macos-catalina-in-february
> 
> Welcome to macOS Catalina :-)
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 29.05.2020 03:16, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> Hey macOS/Catalina people (do we have any here?), I formatted my computer 
>> and decided to install Catalina just to test things and now I can't go back. 
>> I was forced to stay in the latest release because I can't install XCode 
>> from app store in the previous OS, it has to be Catalina... Miller is right 
>> to hate mac and windows force pushing upgrades <3 - I might still try to go 
>> back and install XCode somehow cause I'm starting to hate a few things - 
>> enough ranting!
>> 
>> Anyway, I already opened an issue that seems to affect Catalina - 
>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/988 - but for that tcl/tk 
>> might be the one to hate for. As long as we're at it, do other Catalina 
>> users have the same issue there?
>> 
>> Now for the actual subject of the email. I'm finding that externals in 
>> Catalina are taking too long to load. Anyone else feels that? It's kind of 
>> intermittent. Sometimes it does that, sometimes not... it's happening for me 
>> in Pd 0.50-2 and the new 0.51-0-test1 as well.
>> 
>> As for yet another annoyance, Catalina will now say it can't open Pd right 
>> out of the box when you download, and it'll even ask you if you want to 
>> delete. It does this even if you right click and ask to open it. Previously, 
>> you had to right click and ask to open so it would give you an option "do 
>> you really want to open this?". Now it just says something like 
>> 
>> "“Pd-0.50-2” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified.
>> 
>> macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
>> 
>> Chrome downloaded this file today at 22:05 from msp.ucsd.edu." 
>> 
>> It's only when you say cancel and try that for a SECOND time is that if 
>> offers you the possibility to open if you really really want it and changes 
>> the warning to macOS cannot verify the developer of “Pd-0.50-2”. Are you 
>> sure you want to open it?. Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just something 
>> stupid that macOS now does for ALL applications. 
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.51-0 test 1 released

[hans w. koch]

thanks, christof,

that makes sense.
a more general question: is that the plan for a transisiton period or will it 
stay that way for the foreseeable future?

apart from the obvious profits for the playback of longer soundfiles and the 
ones specified in katjas research some time ago 
(http://www.katjaas.nl/doubleprecision/doubleprecision.html),
i use double for simple math tasks involving really big numbers. 

so far i compiled nicolas danets “spaghettis” pd fork 
(https://github.com/Spaghettis/Spaghettis), but i guess its now time to try and 
compile pd myself.
unless some kind and more knowledgable soul provides a binary for mac, hint, 
hint :-)
(dan wilcox did one for pd50-2 some time ago)

best
hans

> Am 29.05.2020 um 10:48 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> it means that Pd can be compiled -DPD_FLOATSIZE=64, so it will use 64-bit 
> doubles instead of 32-bit floats everywhere, and all built-in objects should 
> still work as expected.
> 
> This has advantages (better precision/stability for certain filters, large 
> precise table indicies, etc.) and possible disadvantages (needs more memory, 
> some code paths might be a bit slower).
> 
> Currently, we only ship the good old single precision builds, but people can 
> compile double precision builds from source for themselves to experiment with.
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 29.05.2020 08:58, hans w. koch wrote:
>> excited about that release, thanks to all involved!
>> 
>>> * maybe mention that Pd is now double precision ready?
>> what does that exactly mean? is it in, but not enabled or is it a subset?
>> ( certainly its not a marketing scam as these tv sets labeled “HD ready” :-)
>> 
>> thanks for clarification,
>> 
>> hans
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.51-0 test 1 released

[hans w. koch]

excited about that release, thanks to all involved!

> * maybe mention that Pd is now double precision ready?

what does that exactly mean? is it in, but not enabled or is it a subset?
( certainly its not a marketing scam as these tv sets labeled “HD ready” :-)

thanks for clarification,

hans


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Re: [PD] Vanilla List / Array / Text Sort

[hans w. koch]

helo

as of pd 0.50-2 text has a sort function.
its details live inside the text define subpatch in text help.

best

hans

> Am 17.03.2020 um 14:50 schrieb me.grimm :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Was just reading an old list post where Miller mentions adding a possible 
> "sort" to [list] [array] [text] objects:
> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-05/110066.html
> 
> Was wondering if this is still on the table for adding this functionality? I 
> think just sorting ascending and descending would be enough to simplify 
> patches and remove some reliance on [list-drip] stuff.
> 
> m
> 
> -- 
> 
> m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
> cornell u., tc3
> megrimm.net
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[hans w. koch]

lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance for using 
mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with compressed formats 
requires decompression first (that this is done “behind the scenes” in other 
softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a computational overhead, 
which might it make look unattractive to some (including me e.g.).

so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content delivery” 
codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no point read it 
as an attempt to block anything for anyone.
he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone would 
develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able to block 
it?
on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.

best

hans




> Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston :
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> What would you say are the core values of PD? 
> 
> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive. 
> Telling me what I "need to" do!!! 
> 
> One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl). 
> Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as
> 
> 1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid 
> limitations 
> 
> 2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and programming 
> style,
> and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates 
> it to 
> looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths that 
> people
> make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the sidewalks 
> there. 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
> 
> Who said anything about a DJ setup? 
> As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool. 
> 
> Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use? 
> 
> YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
> in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc. 
> 
> But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
> by crippling PD to enforce them!
> 
> The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
> in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
> any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD. 
> 
> This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
> WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source. 
> 
> This is ALWAYS the case! 
> 
> Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean that 
> it is a high-quality sample. 
> 
> So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
> alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me. 
> 
> Again, PD should be like Perl:
> NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS. 
> Make it as flexible as possible. 
> 
> If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs, 
> then lets make this possible. 
> 
> I understand there are licensing issues with
> MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
> seem to have found a way to make it easy to 
> speak MP3 despite this limitation. 
> 
> Even if it happens in an external which is easy 
> to find and load. 
> 
> The answer to the question,
> "Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
> being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
> does not sound acceptable to me. 
> 
> Thanks,
> BH
> 
> 
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
> 
> Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
> Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
> Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
> Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> > 
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
> 
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats 

Re: [PD] [pd] sending lists via [comport]

[hans w. koch]

if the incoming data all have the same structure (i.e. the strings of numbers 
have the same lenght),
you could group them in lists and then use unpack to sort their destinations.
like in the patch attached

hth
hans



grouplist.pd
Description: Binary data


> Am 28.01.2020 um 23:25 schrieb Dr. Maik Hester :
> 
> Dear list,
> 
> does anyone know how to send the different values of each line from the
> sample below to [comport] as a list, strip this list in [pd] and route
> the values to their different destinations?
> 
> The data comes via Arduino from a pixy cam.
> 
> Here is a sample from Arduino's serial monitor:
> 
> Detected 6
>   block 0: sig: 2 x: 273 y: 36 width: 42 height: 5 index: 41 age: 18
>   block 1: sig: 1 x: 272 y: 187 width: 36 height: 4 index: 37 age: 18
>   block 2: sig: 1 x: 266 y: 151 width: 28 height: 4 index: 226 age: 71
>   block 3: sig: 1 x: 274 y: 109 width: 20 height: 4 index: 155 age: 124
>   block 4: sig: 2 x: 280 y: 48 width: 32 height: 2 index: 223 age: 72
>   block 5: sig: 1 x: 240 y: 136 width: 24 height: 2 index: 52 age: 5
> 
> At the moment [comport] receives all the numbers one after another (e.g.
> 2  273  36  42  5  41  18 ...), so that it is impossible for me to tell
> [pd] which number should go where.
> 
> I kept checking the internet for a solution for several days which did
> not bring me any further, so I hope that someone in the [pd] community
> could give me a clou.
> 
> Thanks
> Maik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> __
> Dr. Maik Hester
> Musiker, Musikwissenschaftler, Akkordeon-Restaurator
> Himmelohstraße 23
> D-58454 Witten
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.50-0 test1 released

[hans w. koch]

same here…trying to explore the sort function via helpfile (subpatch 
“sorting-text”) tanks pd instantly.
mac OS 10.14.6

best
hans

> Am 10.08.2019 um 12:01 schrieb s.le...@incalcando.com:
> 
> Reading this mail with interest, I just wanted to explore the sort function.
> 
> Opening the help file and clicking on 'sort' crashes pd. :(
> Same in the [pd sorting] subpatch.
> Irrespective of whether text window is open or closed, with data or without.
> 
> Mac OS 10.14.5, Pd-0.50-0test1
> 
> Best,
> Sebastian
> 
> On 2019-08-09 17:19, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> "sort" doc is hidden away in "text define" (one sends "sort" message to the
>> define object, no need for a separate "text sort" object just to do that.)
>> There's no "gui" method to pdcontrol anymore - I was talked out of it.  I 
>> have
>> to get it out of the help window though - will do that now.
>> thanks
>> Miller
>> On Fri, Aug 09, 2019 at 01:52:49PM +0200, hans w. koch wrote:
>>> thank you very much, miller!
>>> very excited about the ???range??? in text search, hooray!
>>> and pdcontrol is super useful too!
>>> two other observations as per release notes:
>>> 1. didn??t find "sort method for text object??? ?
>>> 2. pdcontrol: the example for system command in the help file "gui pdsend 
>>> [concat bazoo [exec date]]??? didn??t work for me. (mac os 10.14.6)
>>> console says: pdcontrol: no method for ???gui'
>>> cheers
>>> hans
>>> > Am 09.08.2019 um 02:09 schrieb Miller Puckette :
>>> >
>>> > To Pd-announce:
>>> >
>>> > Pd version 0.50-0test1 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
>>> > or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
>>> >
>>> > I'm hoping to be able to put out a "stable" release in a week.
>>> >
>>> > cheers
>>> > Miller
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.50-0 test1 released

[hans w. koch]

thank you very much, miller!

very excited about the “range” in text search, hooray!
and pdcontrol is super useful too!

two other observations as per release notes:
1. didn´t find "sort method for text object” ?
2. pdcontrol: the example for system command in the help file "gui pdsend 
[concat bazoo [exec date]]” didn´t work for me. (mac os 10.14.6)
console says: pdcontrol: no method for ‘gui'

cheers
hans

> Am 09.08.2019 um 02:09 schrieb Miller Puckette :
> 
> To Pd-announce:
> 
> Pd version 0.50-0test1 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
> 
> I'm hoping to be able to put out a "stable" release in a week.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] ot: ambisonics/surround

[hans w. koch]

this one is a good ressource:

https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

best
hans

> Am 19.04.2019 um 17:18 schrieb michael strohmann :
> 
> Hello!
> 
> i am looking for a mailing list / forum centered around ambisonic and 
> surround audio.
> since the IEM Graz is very prominant in that field i hoped that there might 
> be something similar to this marvellous pd-list.
> any suggestions?
> 
> thanks!
> mkl
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] playing soundfont files under Vanilla / fluid~

[hans w. koch]

purr data has fluid~ bulit in, its working on mac OsX 10.14.2
https://agraef.github.io/purr-data/

best
hans

> Am 02.01.2019 um 19:46 schrieb Robert Grah :
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> I like to play some soundfont files in PD.  Does someone know a way to simply 
> install the fluid~ external with deken?
> Or is there a different way to play soundfont instruments?
> 
> I don't want to use extended.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Abstraction arguments: tell apart symbols from floats from no argument at all

[hans w. koch]

i have this vanilla abstraction based on a patch by johannes, which gives 1 for 
argument present and 0 if absent
maybe thats for you?

best hans



checkarg.pd
Description: Binary data


argtest.pd
Description: Binary data


> Am 22.12.2018 um 16:52 schrieb Matt Davey :
> 
> If you're ok with using an external library, then there is [pofutil] in the 
> pof library which outputs a list of arguments when sent a [dollarg( message.
> 
> so, like:
> 
> [dollarg(
> |
> [pofutil]
> 
> You can then just use pd's list functions (list length, list split, etc) to 
> pull that list apart and check its length, etc. 
> 
> [route symbol float] should do the last bit you wanted, 
> 
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Re: [PD] Status of PD double precision

[hans w. koch]

and then there is also spaghettis: https://github.com/Spaghettis/Spaghettis
which is double prec. but not as encompassing as purr data.

best hans

> Am 16.12.2018 um 13:16 schrieb Giulio Moro via Pd-list :
> 
> It's been done this past summer for Purr-data/Pd-l2ork. Here is the report: 
> http://disis.music.vt.edu/pipermail/l2ork-dev/2018-August/002019.html
> 
> Best,
> Giulio
> 
> On Sunday, 16 December 2018, 11:29:25 GMT, Dario Sanfilippo 
>  wrote: 
> 
> Hello, list.
> 
> I'm just curious to know if anybody is actively working on a double precision 
> version of PD. Please let me know if I can help in any way.
> 
> Best,
> Dario
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Re: [PD] Grid, x y control

[hans w. koch]

in my collection i found a vanilla patch, named “doll” + helpfile, which 
implements a nice x-y grid based on datastructures.
(and don´t forget to switch on audio, if you try out the helpfiles funny 
fm-thingy)
unfortunately i don´t have any note who was its author.

maybe thats what you are looking for?

best 
hans



doll.pd
Description: Binary data


doll-help.pd
Description: Binary data

> Am 15.12.2018 um 12:10 schrieb João Pais :
> 
> if it has to be controlled by the mouse, it should be possible to program 
> something in vanilla using data structures - I don't have any prototypes 
> ready, except maybe the control points in [jmmmp/bezier].
> It's dependent on tcl/tk, so not suited for very fast changes.
> 
> Am Fr., 14. Dez. 2018 um 15:35 Uhr schrieb Max :
> Hi list,
> 
> what's the current recommendation for a simple x-y Pd GUI controller 
> type of thing? Like a slider but horizontal and vertical.
> There are probably a few externals providing this, which one is the 
> best/most compatible/future proof?
> In vanilla this can be emulated with an object reporting its position on 
> a canvas, but to use it one must change to the edit mode which is kind 
> of counter-intuitive.
> 
> Anything I'm missing?
> 
> m
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.49-0 released

[hans w. koch]

thanks very much!

best hans

> Am 26.09.2018 um 09:47 schrieb hi :
> 
> You can find the new features listed and described here:
> 
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/374
> 
> and have a look here:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/273707442
> 
> and here:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/279631360
> 
>> Am 26.09.2018 um 00:35 schrieb hans w. koch :
>> 
>> thanks to everybody involved!
>> 
>> (maybe dumb question) how can i find out about all the new patching features?
>> the changelog mentions them, but not, how to discover them.
>> 
>> best
>> hans
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 25.09.2018 um 22:17 schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig :
>>> 
>>> On 9/25/18 5:56 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>> At long last...
>>>> 
>>>> Pd version 0.49-0 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
>>>> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> hooray!
>>> 
>>> the Debian packages are already available for Debian/unstable.
>>> They should be available in Debian/testing (aka: buster) within the next
>>> 3 days.
>>> Within the next 7 days, they should hit Debian/stable-backports (aka:
>>> stretch-backports).
>>> 
>>> cheers, and happy (& intelligent) patching.
>>> 
>>> gfamdsr
>>> IOhannes
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.49-0 released

[hans w. koch]

thanks to everybody involved!

(maybe dumb question) how can i find out about all the new patching features?
the changelog mentions them, but not, how to discover them.

best
hans


> Am 25.09.2018 um 22:17 schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig :
> 
> On 9/25/18 5:56 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> At long last...
>> 
>> Pd version 0.49-0 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
>> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
>> 
> 
> hooray!
> 
> the Debian packages are already available for Debian/unstable.
> They should be available in Debian/testing (aka: buster) within the next
> 3 days.
> Within the next 7 days, they should hit Debian/stable-backports (aka:
> stretch-backports).
> 
> cheers, and happy (& intelligent) patching.
> 
> gfamdsr
> IOhannes
> 
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Re: [PD] recursive searching with [text search]

[hans w. koch]

i´d love to have a list output of all matches!
as one immediate benefit, it would make removing duplicate lines in textfiles a 
snap.

best
hans

> Am 21.07.2018 um 14:28 schrieb Miller Puckette :
> 
> I keep thinking about that too.  One idea would be to specify a range of
> lines to search in, so that one could use the results of the previous search
> to start teh next one.
> 
> Another would be to output a list of ALL search-matches.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 09:10:57AM +, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>> People often ask about how to get multiple matches with [text search] (see 
>> here).
>>  There are a few ways of doing it but none of them are very optimal, and it 
>> seems like something that would be much easier and more efficient if it were 
>> implemented with code.
>> 
>> Would there be any traction for a new feature, say [text search -r], to 
>> allow for recursive searching?
> 
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[PD] job angebot in experimenteller informatik an der kunsthochschule für medien köln

[hans w. koch]

(sorry in german only)

Künstlerisch-wissenschaftliche/r Mitarbeiter/in (50%) Experimentelle Informatik:

https://www.khm.de/stellen/news.4529.kuenstlerisch-wissenschaftliche-r-mitarbeiter-in-50-experimentelle-informatik/





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Re: [PD] Random

[hans w. koch]

but couldn´t that pi limitation worked around by a loadbang -delay combo to 
read a date, once the system has established one?
would need mention in the helpfile though.

currently i use [shell] to read a date/hour into pd. 
it works well (e.g. in an installation, where i cue this every second, running 
since mid march), but always wondered, why there was no native way.
time stamped filenames would be another good use, among many others.
i even made a donation once, to have this in mobmuplat.

cheers
hans


> Am 31.05.2018 um 20:20 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Ok, makes sense. A [date] object would still be useful for my case: 
> generating filenames with timestamps. :)
> 
> That's why I was thinking of some sort of [seed] or [salt] object which would 
> wrap reading from a default pseudo-random source such as /dev/random or some 
> system equivalent.
> 
>> On May 31, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
>> 
>> The Pi always boots at a constant date (no battery to keep a clock running).
>> 
>> cheers
>> M
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 01:14:08PM -0500, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>> I was thinking it would just return the posix date via outlets or a list. 
>>> Why would Pd need to save the previous date?
>>> 
>>>> On May 31, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Warning:  [date] won't work so well on Raspberry Pi startup scripts (no
>>>> way to save date from boot to boot).
>>>> 
>>>> I think the best vanilla way on linux or mac is to read /dev/random into
>>>> an array using soundfiler.
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Miller
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 01:00:40PM -0500, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>>>> Yeah. I could use it as [date] is the only reason I have zexy installed 
>>>>> right now.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 31, 2018, at 12:56 PM, hans w. koch  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> wouldn´t it be more interesting/useful to incorporate a [date] object 
>>>>>> into vanilla pd, from which it would be trivial to generate unique 
>>>>>> seeds, but which also could be used in (many) other contexts?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> hans
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 31.05.2018 um 19:21 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It would relatively easy to add a right outlet to [random]. Another 
>>>>>>> option might be an explicit [seed] object which could give you further 
>>>>>>> control or perhaps some creation flags for [random] as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> you still have control on the seed... just seed it
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> no because you need to add an extra outlet to [random] and prints out 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> seed value.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> or even seed it with the system time on creation?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if one adds now this behaviour one need to put a flag for backward
>>>>>>>> compatibility.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> what if [seed( without argument would take the current system time?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> this could be an idea but one need the second outlet.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ciao
>>>>>>>> -Marco Matteo Markidis
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>>>> @danomatika
>>>>>>> danomatika.com
>>>>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [PD] Random

[hans w. koch]

wouldn´t it be more interesting/useful to incorporate a [date] object into 
vanilla pd, from which it would be trivial to generate unique seeds, but which 
also could be used in (many) other contexts?

hans


> Am 31.05.2018 um 19:21 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> It would relatively easy to add a right outlet to [random]. Another option 
> might be an explicit [seed] object which could give you further control or 
> perhaps some creation flags for [random] as well.
> 
>>> you still have control on the seed... just seed it
>> 
>> no because you need to add an extra outlet to [random] and prints out the
>> seed value.
>> 
>>> or even seed it with the system time on creation?
>> 
>> if one adds now this behaviour one need to put a flag for backward
>> compatibility.
>> 
>>> what if [seed( without argument would take the current system time?
>> 
>> this could be an idea but one need the second outlet.
>> 
>> ciao
>> -Marco Matteo Markidis
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [until] ceiling

[hans w. koch]

thanks, cyrille,

but why does the computation for 5pow12 [print start] in my patch then still 
produce 2.44141e+08?
or 5pow12 - 4pow12 work?
(see attached)

cheers hans



big_number_precision2.pd
Description: Binary data

> Am 26.04.2018 um 09:46 schrieb cyrille henry <c...@chnry.net>:
> 
> hello,
> 
> this is not a probem with until, but a problem of big number precision.
> see attachment.
> cheers
> c
> 
> 
> Le 26/04/2018 à 09:30, hans w. koch a écrit :
>> dear miller,
>> all
>> for a project i am working with very high number of iterations.
>> but it seems i´ve literally hit a ceiling with [until]
>> for 4pow12 iterations it performs fine.
>> but 5pow12 doesn´t.
>> feeding it into a counter,  5pow12 produces the same result as 4pow12.
>> attached a small patch to demonstrate.
>> is this limitation by purpose?
>> (i have a workaround not using [until], but wanted to make sure i didn´t 
>> overlook something)
>> thanks
>> hans
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[PD] [until] ceiling

[hans w. koch]

dear miller,
all

for a project i am working with very high number of iterations.
but it seems i´ve literally hit a ceiling with [until]
for 4pow12 iterations it performs fine.
but 5pow12 doesn´t.
feeding it into a counter,  5pow12 produces the same result as 4pow12.

attached a small patch to demonstrate.

is this limitation by purpose?
(i have a workaround not using [until], but wanted to make sure i didn´t 
overlook something)

thanks
hans



until_ceiling_test.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] suggestion: $0 in messages

[hans w. koch]

yes, great to say that, chris: thank you so much miller for the wonderful pure 
data!

hans

> Am 05.04.2018 um 12:53 schrieb Chris McCormick :
> 
> Anyway, I'm sorry to conjure up the spectacle of another several decades of 
> challenging software development and maintenance work. We probably don't say 
> this often enough around here: thank you very much for Pd, Miller.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris.


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Re: [PD] Creating a GUI object on Pd 0.48.1 with keyboard shortcut

[hans w. koch]

somehow, i have the feeling that the key repeat rate (set in system 
preferences) has changed in mac os recently.
this might also be the culprit for multiple obect creations:
if you press a key and hold it, it is interpreted as several keypresses at key 
repeat rate.
until you turn that off entirely.

hth hans
> Am 23.03.2018 um 16:17 schrieb Jack :
> 
> The previous JY's message unencrypted :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Same trouble
> 
> Pd 0.48.1
> 
> Osx 10.10.2
> 
> I dont know if this is related, but on my system,
> 
> Keyup object outputs  its value immediately after key, when I press a
> key, not when I release it.
> 
> 
> 
> Le 23/03/2018 à 14:24, jean-yves a écrit :
>> create two objects on MacOSX (Jack)
>> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:19:27 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
>> Reply-To: jean-yves 
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Message-ID: <964950891.5.1521811167720.javamail@gumo.fr>
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Re: [PD] clone object - dynamically change number of instances?

[hans w. koch]

someone with a better memory…or searching skills…
:-)
lets hope it gets upped on the to do list this way.



> Am 06.03.2018 um 10:38 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoel...@iem.at>:
> 
> On 2018-03-06 00:58, hans w. koch wrote:
>> is there any known way to dynamically change the number of instances 
>> associated with a clone object, e.g. via message?
>> i know, the dsp graph would need to be rebulit, but for a project i am 
>> contemplating that would be less of a concern.
>> 
>> if not, can i suggest this for consideration as a feature request?
> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2018-01/021422.html
> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> 
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[PD] clone object - dynamically change number of instances?

[hans w. koch]

hello list, 
hello miller,

is there any known way to dynamically change the number of instances associated 
with a clone object, e.g. via message?
i know, the dsp graph would need to be rebulit, but for a project i am 
contemplating that would be less of a concern.

if not, can i suggest this for consideration as a feature request?

thanks for the object anyway, very helpful

hans
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