Re: Photo

[Jack Davis]

Appreciated remarks, Subash!
Thanks!
Will look forward to your Shaheen
shot.:-)

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Subash Jeyan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Jack Davis  wrote:
> 
>> Peregrine Falcon. Often seen at this refuge.
>> 
>> Shot yesterday at the Sacramento Federal Preserve prox 70 miles from
>> where I live
> 
>> https://www.photo.net/photo/18503409
> 
> very nice Jack. we have them here, or another sub-species called the
> shaheen falcon. yet to photograph it...
> 
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Re: Photo

[Subash Jeyan]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
Jack Davis  wrote:

> Peregrine Falcon. Often seen at this refuge.
> 
> Shot yesterday at the Sacramento Federal Preserve prox 70 miles from
> where I live
 
> https://www.photo.net/photo/18503409

very nice Jack. we have them here, or another sub-species called the
shaheen falcon. yet to photograph it...

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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[John]

On 10/26/2018 16:43, Jostein wrote:
After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept nagging me 
for its license key every time I open the program. All online suggestions for 
fixing have been tried to no avail.


So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the UI does 
not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC subscription is not an 
option.


Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

Jostein



If you activated CS6 when you originally installed it you should be able to find 
your product key in your Adobe "Account".


I went through that my failed attempt to install the Windoze10 "upgrade" on my 
Photoshop computer & discovered that the Microsoft Windoze backup I made 
wouldn't restore. I ended up having to reinstall software from disk.


Fortunately I had the disks.

IIRC, I had to go on to Adobe's site to "deactivate" one instance of Photoshop 
on my computer before I could activate it on the same computer even though I was 
attempting to install it on the same computer it had already been installed on.


It wouldn't let me enter my license key as long as it thought it was already 
installed on two computers.


When I later switched over to SSD's it migrated with no hassle. Go figure.

I've used Corel Paintshop Pro and found their licensing arrangements to be even 
less congenial than Adobe's.


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Re: a new camera ...

[John]

On 10/26/2018 16:52, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 26/10/18, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:


Keep it rubber side up. cheers


Er, down, hopefully :-)



I was about to say ...

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Re: a new camera ...

[John]

On 10/26/2018 14:00, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:



Eh? Two minutes with a Dremel Moto Tool and that useless thumb rest is a
goner. ];-)

G



Godfrey



Depending your skill with the Moto Tool, you may end up removing the thumb 
anyway.

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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[P. J. Alling]

Look into RawTherapee it does a nice job, and it's Free, well they ask 
for a donation, but it's essentially free.  I did manage to crash it, 
but it does make nice renders.  It also seems to support every current 
Camera.  I'm not using it, but it's become my current backup if DxO Mark 
pisses me off as much as Adobe has.



On 10/26/2018 4:43 PM, Jostein wrote:
After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All 
online suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.


So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
subscription is not an option.


Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

Jostein



--
America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[Steve Sharpe]

> 
> Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
> - I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

I switched to Affinity from Elements about a year ago. I got tired of having to 
switch my images to 8 bit for Elements to process and losing all that 
information. It seems to be a very capable programme...with far more features 
than I use. The only quirk I have yet encountered is that it frequently asks 
you to save your image when you close or quit...even if you just saved it. I 
know, it's a feature, not a bug.
---

Steven Sharpe - The Office Gallery

d...@eastlink.ca

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Re: a new camera ...

[P. J. Alling]

No, No, No, for clubbing seals effectively you really need a Kodak 
Medalist, Zenits are just too light weight.



On 10/26/2018 4:07 PM, mike wilson wrote:

On 26 October 2018 at 19:02 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
The Fujis have this 'familiarity' also. Heft and metal. I don't prefer 
lightweight cameras with lots of plastic.

Get yourself a Zenit.  Useful for seal clubbing when photography palls.



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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[Jostein]

I plan to stick with Lightroom 6.14 for a while yet. It's Photoshop I 
want to replace.

Jostein

Den 26.10.2018 23:37, skrev Paul Sorenson:
You might give On1 PhotoRAW a look.  Like Lightroom, its processing 
engine is non-destructive and, unlike Adobe,  the company is very 
customer-centric.  The latest version is due to be available some time 
in November and will include focus stacking and the layers module will 
retain all the layers as RAW files rather than converting to PSDs.  I 
still have LR6 on my computer but haven't used it in at least 8 months - 
all post processing in the On1 software.


https://www.on1.com/

-p



On 10/26/2018 3:43 PM, Jostein wrote:
After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All 
online suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.


So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
subscription is not an option.


Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

Jostein





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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[Paul Sorenson]

You might give On1 PhotoRAW a look.  Like Lightroom, its processing 
engine is non-destructive and, unlike Adobe,  the company is very 
customer-centric.  The latest version is due to be available some time 
in November and will include focus stacking and the layers module will 
retain all the layers as RAW files rather than converting to PSDs.  I 
still have LR6 on my computer but haven't used it in at least 8 months - 
all post processing in the On1 software.


https://www.on1.com/

-p



On 10/26/2018 3:43 PM, Jostein wrote:
After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All 
online suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.


So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
subscription is not an option.


Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

Jostein



--
Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[mike wilson]

> On 26 October 2018 at 21:43 Jostein  wrote:
> 
> 
> After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
> nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All online 
> suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.
> 
> So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
> UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
> subscription is not an option.
> 
> Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
> - I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

No matter what the technical shortcomings are of alternatives, they are 
infinitely better than enduring Adobe's appalling installation manners and 
perpetual attempts to extract monies for being merely in proximity to one of 
its products.

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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[Dale H. Cook]

At 04:43 PM 10/26/2018, Jostein wrote:

>Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?

I have been using Paintshop Pro for about 25 years, ever since it was a JASC 
product. I am still using Corel PSP Photo XI as my primary image editor. It is 
getting a bit long in the tooth but runs well under Win7 64 bit.

Dale H. Cook, many years as 35mm SLR photographer,
now Pentax K-70 w/ Pentax-DA 18-270mm walking-
around lens or SMC Pentax-A 50mm/f2 lens  


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Re: Nuts to Adobe

[Mark Roberts]

Jostein wrote:

>After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
>nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All online 
>suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.
>
>So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
>UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
>subscription is not an option.
>
>Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
>- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

I've been using Affinity Pro. The interface obviously takes some
getting used to - the massive inertia of Adobe's installed user base
is probably its biggest asset these days - but the software as a whole
is very good.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Photo

[Jack Davis]

Thanks, Steve. Generous of you!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 1:51 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 26/10/18, Jack Davis, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> 
>> Peregrine Falcon. Often seen at this refuge.
>> 
>> Shot yesterday at the Sacramento Federal Preserve prox 70 miles from
>> where I live
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.photo.net/photo/18503409
> 
> I like that the tree resembles the fingers of a hand :-)
> 
> Great shot mate
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: a new camera ...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
>> Keep it rubber side up. cheers
> 
> Er, down, hopefully :-)

Spandex/Lycra up, rubber down. :-)

G
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Re: Photo

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Jack Davis, discombobulated, unleashed:

>
>Peregrine Falcon. Often seen at this refuge.
>
>Shot yesterday at the Sacramento Federal Preserve prox 70 miles from
>where I live
>
>
>
>
>https://www.photo.net/photo/18503409

I like that the tree resembles the fingers of a hand :-)

Great shot mate

-- 


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  Cotty


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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Keep it rubber side up. cheers

Er, down, hopefully :-)

-- 


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  Cotty


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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

> it's time for my afternoon bicycle ride

Keep it rubber side up. cheers

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  Cotty


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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Get yourself a Zenit.  Useful for seal clubbing when photography palls.

Also, the film advance spools inside make great wale-skinning tools.

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Nuts to Adobe

[Jostein]

After a harddrive replacement a good year ago, Photoshop CS6 has kept 
nagging me for its license key every time I open the program. All online 
suggestions for fixing have been tried to no avail.


So, now I'm thinking it's time to move on. CS6 is getting old, and the 
UI does not scale well on larger screen resolutions. But a CC 
subscription is not an option.


Anyone on the list using Corel Paintshop Pro or Affinity Photo?
- I'd love to hear your experiences. :-)

Jostein

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Re: a new camera ...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 11:02 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> I think the notion is too broad. Film or digital is irrelevant: I want
>> my Leica M to feel and work like a Leica M always did. That's much more
>> specific and concrete. It's not how my Nikon F felt and works, nor my
>> Rolleiflex EX, etc. A Leica M from 1953 to the first Leica digital M
>> always felt pretty much the same. The M8 and M9 series lost a lot of the
>> responsiveness, regained in the typ 240 going forward. All the digital
>> models but for the M Edition 60, the M-D, and this new M10-D have a
>> different feel because of the LCD and all the buttons on the back that
>> my fingers have to work their way around: these three models, with those
>> unnecessary bits absent, now feel like a Leica M always did, to me.
> 
> Interesting points.
> 
> One of the things I like about my Oly Pen F is that it is so reminiscent in 
> size and feel to my Pentax MXs of yesteryear.
> 
> I know this should not be important but actually the familiarity is quite 
> pleasant, really. Much like the 'feel' of your Leica M is effectively 
> recreated in the more modern digital examples. You obviously prefer that - 
> familiarity?
> 
> The Fujis have this 'familiarity' also. Heft and metal. I don't prefer 
> lightweight cameras with lots of plastic.
> 
> I suppose I would be a good Leica customer but I'd rather spend my 
> hard-earned crust pouring diesel into my Land Rover, or saving for the day 
> when I can buy myself a boat.
> 
> Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice :-D

One does, one does. :)

Yes: What I've been reaching for all these years as digital capture cameras 
have come into being and matured into usable devices is a camera with the 
familiarity to muscle memory and mind that it disappears from my sight when in 
use the same way that my first Leica M and my Nikon F cameras did fifty some 
years ago. The Leica M-D 262 finally achieved that; the closest an SLR ever 
came was the Olympus E-1, but that's now been replaced by the Leica CL which 
can be configured to do that disappearing act for me (and which also feels in 
use much like my Olympus Pen FT half-frame camera once did, one of my favorite 
film cameras…). 

No desire for a boat here, and I have the car, the motorcycle, and the bicycle 
which make me smile on the vehicle front. Speaking of which, it's time for my 
afternoon bicycle ride … :-)

G
—
"… And miles to go before I sleep, 
 miles to go before I sleep."
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Re: a new camera ...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 1:18 PM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
>> On 26 October 2018 at 17:44 Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> The thumb rest? Ach: never used a film wind lever like that to begin with. 
>> If I happen to buy this camera, I'll remove it. :-)
> 
> If I happen to buy this camera, I'll keep it in the glove box of the Rolls 
> Royce I pick up for shopping trips.

Good of you to buy a proper vehicle to carry the camera in for its shopping 
trips. :)

G
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Re: a new camera ...

[mike wilson]

> On 26 October 2018 at 17:44 Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

> The thumb rest? Ach: never used a film wind lever like that to begin with. If 
> I happen to buy this camera, I'll remove it. :-)

If I happen to buy this camera, I'll keep it in the glove box of the Rolls 
Royce I pick up for shopping trips.

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Re: a new camera ...

[mike wilson]

> On 26 October 2018 at 19:02 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> The Fujis have this 'familiarity' also. Heft and metal. I don't prefer 
> lightweight cameras with lots of plastic.

Get yourself a Zenit.  Useful for seal clubbing when photography palls.

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Photo

[Jack Davis]

Peregrine Falcon. Often seen at this refuge.

Shot yesterday at the Sacramento Federal Preserve prox 70 miles from where I 
live




https://www.photo.net/photo/18503409


J

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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Eh? Two minutes with a Dremel Moto Tool and that useless thumb rest is a
>goner. ];-)

@ 2 mins you'd be left with a stub!!

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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I think the notion is too broad. Film or digital is irrelevant: I want
>my Leica M to feel and work like a Leica M always did. That's much more
>specific and concrete. It's not how my Nikon F felt and works, nor my
>Rolleiflex EX, etc. A Leica M from 1953 to the first Leica digital M
>always felt pretty much the same. The M8 and M9 series lost a lot of the
>responsiveness, regained in the typ 240 going forward. All the digital
>models but for the M Edition 60, the M-D, and this new M10-D have a
>different feel because of the LCD and all the buttons on the back that
>my fingers have to work their way around: these three models, with those
>unnecessary bits absent, now feel like a Leica M always did, to me.

Interesting points.

One of the things I like about my Oly Pen F is that it is so reminiscent in 
size and feel to my Pentax MXs of yesteryear.

I know this should not be important but actually the familiarity is quite 
pleasant, really. Much like the 'feel' of your Leica M is effectively recreated 
in the more modern digital examples. You obviously prefer that - familiarity?

The Fujis have this 'familiarity' also. Heft and metal. I don't prefer 
lightweight cameras with lots of plastic.

I suppose I would be a good Leica customer but I'd rather spend my hard-earned 
crust pouring diesel into my Land Rover, or saving for the day when I can buy 
myself a boat.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice :-D

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Re: a new camera ...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Eh? Two minutes with a Dremel Moto Tool and that useless thumb rest is a goner. 
];-)

G



Godfrey
-- 
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> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> The thumb rest? Ach: never used a film wind lever like that to begin
>> with. If I happen to buy this camera, I'll remove it. :-)
> 
> Easier to remove your thumb ;-)

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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 26/10/18, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>The thumb rest? Ach: never used a film wind lever like that to begin
>with. If I happen to buy this camera, I'll remove it. :-)

Easier to remove your thumb ;-)

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Re: New Camera

[Ken Waller]

Ya know with a used lens from KEH and my K10D he'd have a decent starter 
kit.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: 

Subject: Re: New Camera


Ken's k10? I also saw a kr at keh for about the same price, better low 
light performer, not as nice of a ui.


On October 26, 2018 6:56:53 AM PDT, Ed Keeney  wrote:

My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.

Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
round $700 for a single lens kit.

Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
might lose the photo bug in a short time.

Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Ed
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
Instagram: @ridgewood.photog

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Re: FS - K10D Body Kit

[Ken Waller]

Probably the biggest working difference with the *istD, K10D,K20D and K-3 
for me is the usuable range of ISO with the *istD having the smallest usable 
ISO range and the K-3 having the highest for my type of shoopting.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Womer" 

Subject: Re: FS - K10D Body Kit



My impressions are a bit different than Peter’s.

I had an ist-D, and went from that to a K10D. It provided a distinct 
advantage in image quality in tonality as well as megapixels. The only 
problem with the K10D was that noise became bothersome at ISO 800, and 
night shots at ISO 1600 (the maximum) were ruined by banding in the dark 
areas.


Because of the ISO problem I bought a K-7 when it came out. I liked the 
all-metal construction and the additional 2 stops of ISO headroom, and 
banding was no longer a problem. However the tonal spectrum seemed more 
limited than that on the K10D, and gradations from bright areas into 
shadow were uneven. In good light (preferably fairly even) it’s fine.


I got a K-5 several months after it came out. I love it. Its sensor has 
the tonal spectrum of the K10D, with much more sensitivity and lovely 
handling of shadows. Night shots turn out beautifully; I often shoot at 
ISO 6400 (indoors and outdoors), and there is no banding and the noise 
cleans up nicely. From what I’ve seen, Pentax hasn’t improved on that 
sensor.


I only shoot RAW, and have no idea how any of these cameras does with 
JPGs.


The istD died after several years of worthy use by my daughter. My son has 
the K10D, and is turning out very nice photos with it. The K-7 is my 
backup camera.


Your fuel economy might vary, of course.

Rick

On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:13 AM, P. J. Alling  
wrote:


I skipped the K10D, when it came out.  The K100D used pretty much same, 
though improved, probably in manufacturing, guts as the *ist Ds series, 
if you compare the specifications they were damned near identical.


The K10D had roughly 60% more MP than the*ist-Ds but linear resolution 
was only a tad over 30% higher, so really not that much extra cropping 
room to get a 250 dpi 8x10 which was my criteria for not jumping on the 
K10D band wagon.


I remember downloading sample raw files and comparing quality to the *ist 
D and Ds that I owned.  Image quality was about the same but with 
marginally higher resolution.  Printed un-cropped 8x10s the quality was 
indistinguishable.  If you insisted on making the largest print you could 
with either sensor,   you could make a ~13 x 8 1/2 inch print with the 10 
vs ~10 x 6 2/3 inch print at 300 dpi, but an 8x10 print at ~250 dpi for 
the *ist-D or Ds was pretty much equal quality to 300dpi  at normal 
viewing distances and for the web they were all overkill.


Image quality between the K20D and the *Ist D/Ds, which is for all 
intents and purposes the same as the K100D, this I can make some actual 
personal, comparisons.


The resolution of the K20D allowed a 50% larger print at any given DPI, 
and I needed higher resolution than the *ist cameras for a paid gig, 
which I thought might lead to a lot more work in the future...


Well enough about that.

So to reiterate, the resolution is considerably higher, enough so that I 
thought it was well worth getting a K20D. I would have bought one anyway.


Good, /well/ /exposed/ images from the K20D (Samsung sensor), are just as 
nice as the lower resolution Sony 6mp sensor in the *ist-D/Ds.  So I'd 
say the K10D sensor is probably on a par with the K20D sensor for IQ if 
you get everything right in the camera with the K20D, and with the K20D 
you get to crop more, or make much bigger prints at equal dpi.


However, the smaller resolution Sony sensor produces files that can stand 
a lot more manipulation before they begin to fall apart.  For example the 
6mp files are much easier to recover from underexposure.  The K20D files 
are prone to some really ugly artifacts and banding, (which you can 
sometimes see in shadows even in well exposed images).


I don't know if the K10D files are prone to the same problems, 
personally, but from all accounts they are much more forgiving than the 
K20D files, more like the 6mp files in that regard.


Finally you can compare the scores at DxO Mark for the K20D and K10D, 
(the K100D apparently wasn't tested by them, none of the 6mp sensor 
Pentax cameras were).   There is a 1 point difference in overall sensor 
score between the K10D and K20D with most of the raw data favoring the 
K10D.


Then there are the non image quality related differences between the K20D 
and K10D, (and K100D), the K10D is a huge step above the K100D in buffer 
size.  I believe it's rated as unlimited up to filling the card with full 
resolution jpegs at high (3fps, seems slow now, but it's a bit faster 
than the K20D and K100D at 2.8 fps) fps.


For some reason the RAW buffer is smaller than the K20D, 9 vs 14.

Personally I never remember the buffer on 

Re: FS - K10D Body Kit

[Ken Waller]

I've made many, many prints with the *istD, K10D, K20D and K-3 - alot were 
18" by 12" and when mounted on the wall, I can't tell by image quality which 
camera made which print. I've also had several 2' by 3' prints comercially 
made with the same results.


And yes I do take extra effort to take care of my equipment - I've got 
several lenses purchased new in 1988 that are still in use and have never 
been serviced.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "P. J. Alling" 

Subject: Re: FS - K10D Body Kit


I skipped the K10D, when it came out. The K100D used pretty much same, 
though improved, probably in manufacturing, guts as the *ist Ds series, if 
you compare the specifications they were damned near identical.


The K10D had roughly 60% more MP than the*ist-Ds but linear resolution was 
only a tad over 30% higher, so really not that much extra cropping room to 
get a 250 dpi 8x10 which was my criteria for not jumping on the K10D band 
wagon.


I remember downloading sample raw files and comparing quality to the *ist 
D and Ds that I owned. Image quality was about the same but with 
marginally higher resolution. Printed un-cropped 8x10s the quality was 
indistinguishable. If you insisted on making the largest print you could 
with either sensor, you could make a ~13 x 8 1/2 inch print with the 10 vs 
~10 x 6 2/3 inch print at 300 dpi, but an 8x10 print at ~250 dpi for the 
*ist-D or Ds was pretty much equal quality to 300dpi at normal viewing 
distances and for the web they were all overkill.


Image quality between the K20D and the *Ist D/Ds, which is for all intents 
and purposes the same as the K100D, this I can make some actual personal, 
comparisons.


The resolution of the K20D allowed a 50% larger print at any given DPI, 
and I needed higher resolution than the *ist cameras for a paid gig, which 
I thought might lead to a lot more work in the future...


Well enough about that.

So to reiterate, the resolution is considerably higher, enough so that I 
thought it was well worth getting a K20D. I would have bought one anyway.


Good, /well/ /exposed/ images from the K20D (Samsung sensor), are just as 
nice as the lower resolution Sony 6mp sensor in the *ist-D/Ds. So I'd say 
the K10D sensor is probably on a par with the K20D sensor for IQ if you 
get everything right in the camera with the K20D, and with the K20D you 
get to crop more, or make much bigger prints at equal dpi.


However, the smaller resolution Sony sensor produces files that can stand 
a lot more manipulation before they begin to fall apart. For example the 
6mp files are much easier to recover from underexposure. The K20D files 
are prone to some really ugly artifacts and banding, (which you can 
sometimes see in shadows even in well exposed images).


I don't know if the K10D files are prone to the same problems, personally, 
but from all accounts they are much more forgiving than the K20D files, 
more like the 6mp files in that regard.


Finally you can compare the scores at DxO Mark for the K20D and K10D, (the 
K100D apparently wasn't tested by them, none of the 6mp sensor Pentax 
cameras were). There is a 1 point difference in overall sensor score 
between the K10D and K20D with most of the raw data favoring the K10D.


Then there are the non image quality related differences between the K20D 
and K10D, (and K100D), the K10D is a huge step above the K100D in buffer 
size. I believe it's rated as unlimited up to filling the card with full 
resolution jpegs at high (3fps, seems slow now, but it's a bit faster than 
the K20D and K100D at 2.8 fps) fps.


For some reason the RAW buffer is smaller than the K20D, 9 vs 14.

Personally I never remember the buffer on the K20D or even the, *ist-Ds 
limited as it is, as being a huge handicap, but the K10D is a big 
improvement over the K100D and a bit better than the K20D for Jpegs at 
least.


The controls are pretty much exactly the same and same locations as the 
K20D, which makes it a pain transitioning between the K20D and the K5II, 
(and I expect the K3 or K1), or the *istDs, (which aside from the tiny 
review screen is pretty close to the K100D and actually more like the K5II 
than the K10/20D).


Now considering the image quality and other tangible qualities of the 
K10D, would I want one, well it's ergonomically pretty much a K20D with 
slightly better image quality with slightly lower resolution. I still use 
my K20D even though the SD card door is broken and the OVF has a cracked 
rear element, it's not worth enough to sell and not economically 
repairable, (cursing it's differences from the K-5II every damn time I 
press an incorrect button).


I expect that Ken takes a lot better care of his equipment than I do mine.

On 10/26/2018 1:12 AM, l...@red4est.com wrote:

How does the image quality compare to the k100 and the k20?

On October 25, 2018 8:53:10 PM PDT, Ken Waller  
wrote:

Looking to sell a very slightly 

Re: New Camera

[Igor PDML-StR]

Ed,

I often get asked this type of questions by friends.

While I am myself a big fan of the SLRs I have (and had before), - today, 
I would not suggest a DSLR as the first camera in the case like yours.


Here is my earlier response on this list to a similar question from Eric:
http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2018-March/443539.html
where I explain why.
Even though that was written for a 12-y.o., practically all the same 
thoughts are applicable to a 15-y.o.



So, I would suggest either one of the micro-2/3 cameras, if the 
interchangeable lenses are desired, or a well-capable ("more advanced")
P, - such that offers manual control for most parameters (almost the 
same as in case of an SLR or rangefinder).


In case of a P, I'd suggest to buy a camera with a fast lens (f/2.0 or 
faster, -- there are a few cams with 1.4 or 1.7).

A faster lens typically shortens the reach of the zoom.
But the practice shows that typically, you don't use as much of the long 
end of a P "superzoom" (the image quality is not as good, and

you are not buying a P for birding), but you'd appreciate
a fast lens.

For about 10 years, I've been following the models of the advanced P's
(but stopped in the past ~3 years). We usually had one either for my wife 
or as a camera for me when I cannot take a DSLR (e.g. on a snow mountain).


Brand- and model-wise, for a P, I'd look at the Lumix LX line, - 
currently it is Lumix LX10, or Canon Powershot:  G7 X Mark II at this 
point, or its predecessor, that is still available and cheaper, - G7 X.
These two model lines have been very close to each other, - but somehow 
I've always made a choice in favor of Lumix, and never regretted.


I don't know the most recent micro-2/3rds models, but I am sure some 
people on this list can recommend those.



You might also want to see what other PDMLers wrote in that earlier thread:
http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2018-March/thread.html
(That thread is about 1/3 down on that page, with the subject "Cameras for 
a kid")




Now, let me comment on the C, N, and P lower-end (D)SLRs.
 While I haven't looked at those in the past 3-4 years, my experience from 
the previous 20 years form my opinion that the lowest end Canon DSLRs (and 
SLRs),- "Digital Rebel" (and Rebel before that) are a bad choice.
 They are made cheaply, and are not as good performers as the counterparts 
from Nikon and Pentax. Canon good cameras are their high-end models (And I 
don't have sufficient experience with Canon mid-level models.) It seems 
that the intent of those cameras is to hook people on Canon brand with a 
low price, and lock them in there, expecting the need for an upgrade.


In contrast, the low-end Pentax and Nikon have been good, solid performers.


I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Igor




Ed Keeney Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:57:59 -0700 wrote:

My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.


Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
round $700 for a single lens kit.

Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
might lose the photo bug in a short time.

Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Ed

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Re: New Camera

[P. J. Alling]

The K-70 is a better all around camera than Nikon and Canon entry level 
systems.  I haven't looked at Canon's bottom tier Rebels lately but 
earlier ones had crappy viewfinders and not particularly great IQ in 
addition to having smaller sensors, plus feeling decidedly plasticy.  
The Nikons have a lot fewer features and IIRC their bottom rung D3xxx 
series is pretty hobbled by it's feature set, and their viewfinder again 
isn't the best.  They're not as cheap feeling as the Canons were though.


I have an analogy here.  When I was just a wee youth, my parents paid 
for guitar lessons, and an inexpensive instrument.   The one I picked 
out was obviously the nicest I could find, it just looked good, but what 
did I know about guitars.  I didn't realize until much later that I was 
always cutting my fingers on the strings because they were positioned 
too far from the fretboard.  Because of that I never enjoyed playing and 
gave it up.


My point is, if the equipment is unpleasant to use, it will kill a new 
users enthusiasm as fast as anything.



On 10/26/2018 9:56 AM, Ed Keeney wrote:

My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.

Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
round $700 for a single lens kit.

Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
might lose the photo bug in a short time.

Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Ed
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
Instagram: @ridgewood.photog



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Re: a new camera ...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 26, 2018, at 8:29 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 25/10/18, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> I agree about the "advance" lever. That kind of tat is beneath Leica
>> (or should be).
>> 
>> I also notice: Unlike the  PIXII, the M10-D does accept standard
>> memory cards. And it uses DNG as its native raw format.
>> 
>> This is officially the first leica that's ever interested me.
> 
> Worth a gllmpse of Kai Wong trying it out...
> 
> 

Kao is always reasonably entertaining, and it's good to see him enjoying a 
Leica M. He does get into a bit overmuch on the Focusing stuff ... most M users 
in good light like that will set f8 and the zone they want and not touch the 
focus at all unless they move in or want a broader distance view. 

The other minor but significant thing I notice in all these reviews is that 
they always say the camera is trying to be a "analog" ... aka "film" ... camera 
in feel and use, even Leica themself does that. 

I think the notion is too broad. Film or digital is irrelevant: I want my Leica 
M to feel and work like a Leica M always did. That's much more specific and 
concrete. It's not how my Nikon F felt and works, nor my Rolleiflex EX, etc. A 
Leica M from 1953 to the first Leica digital M always felt pretty much the 
same. The M8 and M9 series lost a lot of the responsiveness, regained in the 
typ 240 going forward. All the digital models but for the M Edition 60, the 
M-D, and this new M10-D have a different feel because of the LCD and all the 
buttons on the back that my fingers have to work their way around: these three 
models, with those unnecessary bits absent, now feel like a Leica M always did, 
to me.

The thumb rest? Ach: never used a film wind lever like that to begin with. If I 
happen to buy this camera, I'll remove it. :-)

G
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Re: K-1 Mark II Upgrade?

[Paul Stenquist]

Thanks Bill. Good info.


> On Oct 26, 2018, at 11:42 AM, William Robb  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:03 AM Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone sent in a camera for the upgrade? I think both Stan and Bill
>> have done so. How long did it take? Is there a marked improvement in
>> performance over the original? Any downside other than price?
> 
> 
> I didn’t bother as the upgrade wasn’t giving me anything I especially care
> about. The brouhaha about the noise reduction is, IMHO, an overreaction.
> The very thorough test that Pentax Forums did showed that noise was
> reduced, detail wasn’t. The test that DPR did showed the opposite, but DPR
> has a long history of not being able to run a test without fucking
> something up.
> If you do a lot of shooting at higher ISOs the upgrade would be a good
> thing.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Paul
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Re: K-1 Mark II Upgrade?

[William Robb]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:03 AM Paul Stenquist  wrote:

> Has anyone sent in a camera for the upgrade? I think both Stan and Bill
> have done so. How long did it take? Is there a marked improvement in
> performance over the original? Any downside other than price?


I didn’t bother as the upgrade wasn’t giving me anything I especially care
about. The brouhaha about the noise reduction is, IMHO, an overreaction.
The very thorough test that Pentax Forums did showed that noise was
reduced, detail wasn’t. The test that DPR did showed the opposite, but DPR
has a long history of not being able to run a test without fucking
something up.
If you do a lot of shooting at higher ISOs the upgrade would be a good
thing.

Bill



>
> Paul
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FSF: Pentax K5

[Paul Stenquist]

I’d like to sell my K5. It looks great. Hasn’t been used in several years. 
comes with all the accessories and instruction manual in the original box. 
Strap, cables and charger were never used. It’s missing the plug for the 
battery grip.

$250 or $300 with the battery grip
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Re: New Camera

[Paul Stenquist]

I have a K5 that looks like new, with the original box (nice condition), the 
strap, charger, cables, instruction manual and battery, all in the box and 
never used. Not sure of the shutter count, but it was my backup and I don’t 
think I used it a lot. Can’t get a count on my shutter count, and since I have 
a Mac the EXIF reader won’t work. You can have it for $250 or $300 with a 
battery grip.
Paul

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Ed Keeney  wrote:
> 
> My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
> for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
> camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.
> 
> Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
> depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
> round $700 for a single lens kit.
> 
> Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
> might lose the photo bug in a short time.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> Ed
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
> Instagram: @ridgewood.photog
> 
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Re: a new camera ...

[Steve Cottrell]

On 25/10/18, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I agree about the "advance" lever. That kind of tat is beneath Leica
>(or should be).
>
>I also notice: Unlike the  PIXII, the M10-D does accept standard
>memory cards. And it uses DNG as its native raw format.
>
>This is officially the first leica that's ever interested me.

Worth a gllmpse of Kai Wong trying it out...



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Re: New Camera

[Jack Davis]

Does the "kit" composition, perhaps,
explain a part of the difference?
J




Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:56 AM, Ed Keeney  wrote:
> 
> My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
> for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
> camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.
> 
> Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
> depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
> round $700 for a single lens kit.
> 
> Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
> might lose the photo bug in a short time.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> Ed
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
> Instagram: @ridgewood.photog
> 
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Re: New Camera

[lrc]

Ken's k10? I also saw a kr at keh for about the same price, better low light 
performer, not as nice of a ui.

On October 26, 2018 6:56:53 AM PDT, Ed Keeney  wrote:
>My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
>for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
>camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.
>
>Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
>depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
>round $700 for a single lens kit.
>
>Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
>might lose the photo bug in a short time.
>
>Am I missing something?
>
>Thanks!
>Ed
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
>Instagram: @ridgewood.photog
>
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New Camera

[Ed Keeney]

My sister-in-law is looking to get her 15 year old son a new camera
for Christmas.  I took a quick look at B to get the entry level
camera prices for Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony.

Prices for Canon and Nikon entry level cameras come in around $450-600
depending on the lens kit included.  Sony and Pentax (K70) both start
round $700 for a single lens kit.

Kinda hard to push Pentax at $250 more for a beginner and someone who
might lose the photo bug in a short time.

Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Ed
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edkeeney
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ridgewood_photog
Instagram: @ridgewood.photog

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Re: FS - K10D Body Kit

[Rick Womer]

My impressions are a bit different than Peter’s.

I had an ist-D, and went from that to a K10D. It provided a distinct advantage 
in image quality in tonality as well as megapixels. The only problem with the 
K10D was that noise became bothersome at ISO 800, and night shots at ISO 1600 
(the maximum) were ruined by banding in the dark areas.

Because of the ISO problem I bought a K-7 when it came out. I liked the 
all-metal construction and the additional 2 stops of ISO headroom, and banding 
was no longer a problem. However the tonal spectrum seemed more limited than 
that on the K10D, and gradations from bright areas into shadow were uneven. In 
good light (preferably fairly even) it’s fine.

I got a K-5 several months after it came out. I love it. Its sensor has the 
tonal spectrum of the K10D, with much more sensitivity and lovely handling of 
shadows. Night shots turn out beautifully; I often shoot at ISO 6400 (indoors 
and outdoors), and there is no banding and the noise cleans up nicely. From 
what I’ve seen, Pentax hasn’t improved on that sensor.

I only shoot RAW, and have no idea how any of these cameras does with JPGs. 

The istD died after several years of worthy use by my daughter. My son has the 
K10D, and is turning out very nice photos with it. The K-7 is my backup camera.

Your fuel economy might vary, of course.

Rick

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:13 AM, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> I skipped the K10D, when it came out.  The K100D used pretty much same, 
> though improved, probably in manufacturing, guts as the *ist Ds series, if 
> you compare the specifications they were damned near identical.
> 
> The K10D had roughly 60% more MP than the*ist-Ds but linear resolution was 
> only a tad over 30% higher, so really not that much extra cropping room to 
> get a 250 dpi 8x10 which was my criteria for not jumping on the K10D band 
> wagon.
> 
> I remember downloading sample raw files and comparing quality to the *ist D 
> and Ds that I owned.  Image quality was about the same but with marginally 
> higher resolution.  Printed un-cropped 8x10s the quality was 
> indistinguishable.  If you insisted on making the largest print you could 
> with either sensor,   you could make a ~13 x 8 1/2 inch print with the 10 vs 
> ~10 x 6 2/3 inch print at 300 dpi, but an 8x10 print at ~250 dpi for the 
> *ist-D or Ds was pretty much equal quality to 300dpi  at normal viewing 
> distances and for the web they were all overkill.
> 
> Image quality between the K20D and the *Ist D/Ds, which is for all intents 
> and purposes the same as the K100D, this I can make some actual personal, 
> comparisons.
> 
> The resolution of the K20D allowed a 50% larger print at any given DPI, and I 
> needed higher resolution than the *ist cameras for a paid gig, which I 
> thought might lead to a lot more work in the future...
> 
> Well enough about that.
> 
> So to reiterate, the resolution is considerably higher, enough so that I 
> thought it was well worth getting a K20D. I would have bought one anyway.
> 
> Good, /well/ /exposed/ images from the K20D (Samsung sensor), are just as 
> nice as the lower resolution Sony 6mp sensor in the *ist-D/Ds.  So I'd say 
> the K10D sensor is probably on a par with the K20D sensor for IQ if you get 
> everything right in the camera with the K20D, and with the K20D you get to 
> crop more, or make much bigger prints at equal dpi.
> 
> However, the smaller resolution Sony sensor produces files that can stand a 
> lot more manipulation before they begin to fall apart.  For example the 6mp 
> files are much easier to recover from underexposure.  The K20D files are 
> prone to some really ugly artifacts and banding, (which you can sometimes see 
> in shadows even in well exposed images).
> 
> I don't know if the K10D files are prone to the same problems, personally, 
> but from all accounts they are much more forgiving than the K20D files, more 
> like the 6mp files in that regard.
> 
> Finally you can compare the scores at DxO Mark for the K20D and K10D, (the 
> K100D apparently wasn't tested by them, none of the 6mp sensor Pentax cameras 
> were).   There is a 1 point difference in overall sensor score between the 
> K10D and K20D with most of the raw data favoring the K10D.
> 
> Then there are the non image quality related differences between the K20D and 
> K10D, (and K100D), the K10D is a huge step above the K100D in buffer size.  I 
> believe it's rated as unlimited up to filling the card with full resolution 
> jpegs at high (3fps, seems slow now, but it's a bit faster than the K20D and 
> K100D at 2.8 fps) fps.
> 
> For some reason the RAW buffer is smaller than the K20D, 9 vs 14.
> 
> Personally I never remember the buffer on the K20D or even the, *ist-Ds 
> limited as it is,  as being a huge handicap, but the K10D is a big 
> improvement over the K100D and  a bit better than the K20D for Jpegs at least.
> 
> The controls are pretty much exactly the same and same locations as the K20D, 
> 

Re: Ramblin Roots Revue

[Steve Cottrell]

On 25/10/18, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>What guitar is it a photo of?

Fender Parlor CP100

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__UK Shoot / Edit and
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Re: K-1 Mark II Upgrade?

[P. J. Alling]

Hey, I just posted a lengthy reply to Larry's question on K10D vs K20D 
vs K100D image quality, which I hope is informative.  So there is some 
Pentax content.


On 10/25/2018 11:32 PM, John wrote:

Oooh! Harsh!  8^)

On 10/25/2018 13:45, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Tough to get any Pentax info here. Leica, yes. Pentax, no.


On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:43 PM, John  wrote:

On 10/25/2018 12:01, Paul Stenquist wrote:
Has anyone sent in a camera for the upgrade? I think both Stan and 
Bill

have done so. How long did it take? Is there a marked improvement in
performance over the original? Any downside other than price? Paul


I was thinking about that just the other day (Monday in fact). Isn't it
getting close to the end of the period Ricoh were offering the upgrade?

I hope someone who has had the upgrade done & has had a chance to 
evaluate
the upgrade will share so that some of us who are still on the fence 
about
it will still have time to send ours in if it turns out to be a good 
deal.








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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
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Re: FS - K10D Body Kit

[P. J. Alling]

I skipped the K10D, when it came out.  The K100D used pretty much same, 
though improved, probably in manufacturing, guts as the *ist Ds series, 
if you compare the specifications they were damned near identical.


The K10D had roughly 60% more MP than the*ist-Ds but linear resolution 
was only a tad over 30% higher, so really not that much extra cropping 
room to get a 250 dpi 8x10 which was my criteria for not jumping on the 
K10D band wagon.


I remember downloading sample raw files and comparing quality to the 
*ist D and Ds that I owned.  Image quality was about the same but with 
marginally higher resolution.  Printed un-cropped 8x10s the quality was 
indistinguishable.  If you insisted on making the largest print you 
could with either sensor,   you could make a ~13 x 8 1/2 inch print with 
the 10 vs ~10 x 6 2/3 inch print at 300 dpi, but an 8x10 print at ~250 
dpi for the *ist-D or Ds was pretty much equal quality to 300dpi  at 
normal viewing distances and for the web they were all overkill.


Image quality between the K20D and the *Ist D/Ds, which is for all 
intents and purposes the same as the K100D, this I can make some actual 
personal, comparisons.


The resolution of the K20D allowed a 50% larger print at any given DPI, 
and I needed higher resolution than the *ist cameras for a paid gig, 
which I thought might lead to a lot more work in the future...


Well enough about that.

So to reiterate, the resolution is considerably higher, enough so that I 
thought it was well worth getting a K20D. I would have bought one anyway.


Good, /well/ /exposed/ images from the K20D (Samsung sensor), are just 
as nice as the lower resolution Sony 6mp sensor in the *ist-D/Ds.  So 
I'd say the K10D sensor is probably on a par with the K20D sensor for IQ 
if you get everything right in the camera with the K20D, and with the 
K20D you get to crop more, or make much bigger prints at equal dpi.


However, the smaller resolution Sony sensor produces files that can 
stand a lot more manipulation before they begin to fall apart.  For 
example the 6mp files are much easier to recover from underexposure.  
The K20D files are prone to some really ugly artifacts and banding, 
(which you can sometimes see in shadows even in well exposed images).


I don't know if the K10D files are prone to the same problems, 
personally, but from all accounts they are much more forgiving than the 
K20D files, more like the 6mp files in that regard.


Finally you can compare the scores at DxO Mark for the K20D and K10D, 
(the K100D apparently wasn't tested by them, none of the 6mp sensor 
Pentax cameras were).   There is a 1 point difference in overall sensor 
score between the K10D and K20D with most of the raw data favoring the 
K10D.


Then there are the non image quality related differences between the 
K20D and K10D, (and K100D), the K10D is a huge step above the K100D in 
buffer size.  I believe it's rated as unlimited up to filling the card 
with full resolution jpegs at high (3fps, seems slow now, but it's a bit 
faster than the K20D and K100D at 2.8 fps) fps.


For some reason the RAW buffer is smaller than the K20D, 9 vs 14.

Personally I never remember the buffer on the K20D or even the, *ist-Ds 
limited as it is,  as being a huge handicap, but the K10D is a big 
improvement over the K100D and  a bit better than the K20D for Jpegs at 
least.


The controls are pretty much exactly the same and same locations as the 
K20D, which makes it a pain transitioning between the K20D and the K5II, 
(and I expect the K3 or K1), or the *istDs, (which aside from the tiny 
review screen is pretty close to the K100D and actually more like the 
K5II than the K10/20D).


Now considering the image quality and other tangible qualities of the 
K10D, would I want one, well it's ergonomically pretty much a K20D with 
slightly better image quality with slightly lower resolution.  I still 
use my K20D even though the SD card door is broken and the OVF has a 
cracked rear element, it's not worth enough to sell and not economically 
repairable, (cursing it's differences from the K-5II every damn time I 
press an incorrect button).


I expect that Ken takes a lot better care of his equipment than I do mine.

On 10/26/2018 1:12 AM, l...@red4est.com wrote:

How does the image quality compare to the k100 and the k20?

On October 25, 2018 8:53:10 PM PDT, Ken Waller  wrote:

Looking to sell a very slightly used K10D body. Has 2590 shutter
clicks.
Complete with original box and all items originally contained in the
box,
including battery.
Absolutely no wear visible.


I bought this K10D late in its product cycle, a few months before the
K20D
was available. I immediately bought a K20D and treated the K10D
as my backup which I never used. Its been sitting covered on a shelf
all
these years.

If it were listed by KEH it would be a LN - 99% of new, including box
and
instructions.

$145 USD

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller


--

Re: a new camera ...

[mike wilson]

> On 25 October 2018 at 23:01 Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> 
> Barbarian! The best Leicas don't have a red dot.

Ah, yes.  The world-renowned Kommando series.

> 
> > On 25 Oct 2018, at 17:46, mike wilson  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> On 25 October 2018 at 17:29 Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Beautiful!
> > 
> > I'm not getting that.  Functional, maybe, and well-finished.  But the 
> > advance lever is just ugly.  And only a tiny red dot on the back for your 
> > 8K.
> > 
> >> 
> >>> On 25 Oct 2018, at 17:21, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> >>> 
>  Slightly off-topic for PDML, but I thought BobW, Cotty, and maybe a 
>  couple others might be interested. 
>  
>  ---
>  This is a new take on the "M-mount digital camera" that I saw on Leica 
>  Rumors: https://pixii.fr. 
>  
>  Rangefinder, manual focus and exposure, no LCD, 256G built-in memory 
>  only, WiFi connect for data transfer, etc. They don't list a sensor 
>  format and Mpixel yet, but rumor has it that it's an APS-C format with 
>  12 to 16 Mpixels. Another information update is supposedly due soon.
> >>> 
> >>> Has anyone yet mentioned that Leica has since announced that they're
> >>> making essentially the same kind of camera?
> >>> https://petapixel.com/2018/10/24/leica-m10-d-a-minimalist-analog-body-with-wi-fi-instead-of-an-lcd/
> >>> 
> >>> Minimalist. No LCD. WiFi only. 
> >>> It's 24MP full-frame. (I can's see myself using a Leica rangefinder
> >>> with Leica lenses if not full frame - just doesn't "feel" right to
> >>> me.)
> >>> 
> >>> Of course, being Leica, the *price* isn't minimalist: 8 grand.
> >>> 
> >>> If not for the price I could quite see myself using one of these.

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