Re: 16-50 redo

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 16.07.21 um 18:54 schrieb Bill:


That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
decades.


But lately only thanks to rich collectors from the Far East.

Their traditional European customer base of lawyers and dentists with
lots of undeclared money is slowly dying and most European countries no
longer allow bigger cash payments.

Ralf

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Re: 16-50 redo

[Alan C]

Does it count if you put a few pictures on your noticeboard?

Alan C


On 16-Jul-21 07:22 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Leica almost died a couple of times.

I'll bet Pentax still makes money for Ricoh on every unit sold. In 
fact the imaging division may be the only profit center making a profit.


There is also a lot of synergy in their current, and past digital 
camera lines.  I expect the the next K1 iteration will have the 
focusing module that's in the K-3III and the new processing engine 
with very little difference in programming, but a faster bus, to make 
the frame rate a bit more competitive.


If there is a follow on to the 645z, and I think there probably will 
be since most of the R was done for the K-3III, the new bus, 
processor and AF modules will all be rolled into that model, with only 
minimal changes to firmware, and almost no changes to the actual 
hardware beyond flex boards and chips.


It would be nice to see a few new lenses for the 645 line but when I 
was working for an actual working pro, he only had two normal lenses, 
a wide and portrait telephoto for his brace of Bronicas.


On 7/16/2021 1:03 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Yes, but no company has the snob appeal of Leica!

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 12:54 PM Bill  
wrote:


On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 8:48 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola, 

wrote:


It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need

and

fewer can afford.


That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
decades.

bill

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Re: 16-50 redo

[Bill]

Leica is putting their name onto Huawei camera phones these days.
The mighty have kind of fallen off their plinth.


On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 11:04 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola, 
wrote:

> Yes, but no company has the snob appeal of Leica!
>
> Dan Matyola
> *https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
> *
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 12:54 PM Bill  wrote:
>
> > On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 8:48 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola, <
> danmaty...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need
> > and
> > > fewer can afford.
> > >
> >
> > That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
> > decades.
> >
> > bill
> >
> > >
> > --
> > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> > follow the directions.
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Re: 16-50 redo

[P. J. Alling]

Leica almost died a couple of times.

I'll bet Pentax still makes money for Ricoh on every unit sold. In fact 
the imaging division may be the only profit center making a profit.


There is also a lot of synergy in their current, and past digital camera 
lines.  I expect the the next K1 iteration will have the focusing module 
that's in the K-3III and the new processing engine with very little 
difference in programming, but a faster bus, to make the frame rate a 
bit more competitive.


If there is a follow on to the 645z, and I think there probably will be 
since most of the R was done for the K-3III, the new bus, processor 
and AF modules will all be rolled into that model, with only minimal 
changes to firmware, and almost no changes to the actual hardware beyond 
flex boards and chips.


It would be nice to see a few new lenses for the 645 line but when I was 
working for an actual working pro, he only had two normal lenses, a wide 
and portrait telephoto for his brace of Bronicas.


On 7/16/2021 1:03 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Yes, but no company has the snob appeal of Leica!

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 12:54 PM Bill  wrote:


On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 8:48 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola, 
It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need

and

fewer can afford.


That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
decades.

bill

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Re: 16-50 redo

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Yes, but no company has the snob appeal of Leica!

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 12:54 PM Bill  wrote:

> On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 8:48 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola,  >
> wrote:
>
> > It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need
> and
> > fewer can afford.
> >
>
> That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
> decades.
>
> bill
>
> >
> --
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Bill]

On Fri., Jul. 16, 2021, 8:48 a.m. Daniel J. Matyola, 
wrote:

> It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need and
> fewer can afford.
>

That's what being a niche player is all about. It worked for Leica for
decades.

bill

>
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Daniel J. Matyola]

It sounds like Ricoh is designing wonderful niche lenses that few need and
fewer can afford.

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 6:03 AM  wrote:

> They are yes, and it promises to be an outstanding lens.
>
> Mike Muizenbelt did a short review of a pre-release copy on Youtube.
>
> It is focussing fast and accurate, and is amazingly sharp, even in the
> corners.
>
>
> However, since I already have the older one (SDM) which works OK, and also
> have the K1 with 24-70 en 15-30, an upgrade is not really worth it at some
> 1400 Euros/dollars I think ;-)
>
> Regards, JvW
>
>
> > On 15 Jul 2021, at 08:49, Larry Colen  wrote:
> >
> > It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:
> >
> >
> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/
> >
> > My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or
> some other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the
> original.
> >
> > I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so
> well for the K-1 crowd.
> >
> > In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once
> it is available.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Larry Colen
> > l...@red4est.com
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: 16-50 redo

[pentax]

They are yes, and it promises to be an outstanding lens.

Mike Muizenbelt did a short review of a pre-release copy on Youtube.

It is focussing fast and accurate, and is amazingly sharp, even in the corners.


However, since I already have the older one (SDM) which works OK, and also have 
the K1 with 24-70 en 15-30, an upgrade is not really worth it at some 1400 
Euros/dollars I think ;-)

Regards, JvW


> On 15 Jul 2021, at 08:49, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:
> 
> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/
> 
> My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
> other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.
> 
> I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well 
> for the K-1 crowd.  
> 
> In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it 
> is available.
> 
> 
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com
> 
> 
> --
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Henk Terhell]

$1400 according to Imaging Resource:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2021/07/14/ricoh-announced-new-da-16-50mm-f-2.8-aps-c-with-new-advanced-pulse-motor-pl

Henk

Op 2021-07-15 om 17:12 schreef Bill:

On 7/15/2021 1:14 AM, mike wilson wrote:



On 15 July 2021 at 07:49 Larry Colen  wrote:


It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/ 



My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 
or some other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for 
the original.


I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not 
so well for the K-1 crowd.


In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs 
once it is available.


I must admit to a burning curiosity over the "strict standards of the 
next-generation star series" which, without the benefit of 
futuresight, I would have described as theoretical aspirations.  Or 
maybe I just woke up particularly skeptical this morning.


You just haven't been paying attention. The Star series lenses are 
moving towards optical performance with no compromises, and 
sufficiently high optical standards to be able to support much higher 
pixel densities.


One of the things I noticed when moving up the pixel count ladder was 
that lenses that were great at 6mp became lens and less good as the 
pixel count increased and their weaknesses were exaggerated. Ricoh is 
making the new Star lenses to a much higher optical standard in an 
attempt to future proof the designs as much as possible.


And yes, they are also moving towards being very expensive objects. 
The price of admission for the 16-50 will be in the US$2k range, which 
is a significant price jump from the just over US$1k price of the lens 
it is replacing.


bill
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Re: 16-50 redo

[mike wilson]

> On 15 July 2021 at 16:12 Bill  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 7/15/2021 1:14 AM, mike wilson wrote:
> > 
> >> On 15 July 2021 at 07:49 Larry Colen  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:
> >>
> >> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/
> >>
> >> My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
> >> other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.
> >>
> >> I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well 
> >> for the K-1 crowd.
> >>
> >> In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once 
> >> it is available.
> > 
> > I must admit to a burning curiosity over the "strict standards of the 
> > next-generation star series" which, without the benefit of futuresight, I 
> > would have described as theoretical aspirations.  Or maybe I just woke up 
> > particularly skeptical this morning.
> 
> You just haven't been paying attention. The Star series lenses are 
> moving towards optical performance with no compromises, and sufficiently 
> high optical standards to be able to support much higher pixel densities.

Sounds like an aspiration to me.
> 
> One of the things I noticed when moving up the pixel count ladder was 
> that lenses that were great at 6mp became lens and less good as the 
> pixel count increased and their weaknesses were exaggerated. Ricoh is 
> making the new Star lenses to a much higher optical standard in an 
> attempt to future proof the designs as much as possible.

And again.
> 
> And yes, they are also moving towards being very expensive objects. The 
> price of admission for the 16-50 will be in the US$2k range, which is a 
> significant price jump from the just over US$1k price of the lens it is 
> replacing.

My aspiration is to have the pennies to play in the deep end of the pool.
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I think you speak for a lot of us there, PJ!

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 7:10 AM P. J. Alling 
wrote:

> Not for me really. I have what I need right now, as well as a lot of
> things I don't, and only have a very short purchase list, most of which
> I cannot afford.
>
>
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Paul Stenquist]

For K-1 we have the 24-70. Same FOV,

Paul

> On Jul 15, 2021, at 7:10 AM, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> Not for me really. I have what I need right now, as well as a lot of things 
> I don't, and only have a very short purchase list, most of which I cannot 
> afford.
> 
> I expect, based on the new selling price of the K-3III that the price for 
> this lens will be astronomical, (not to mention the fact that inflation is 
> heating up and will end up eroding even more purchasing power).
> 
> I do hope that Ricoh sells a boat load of them, to keep the K mount system 
> alive.
> 
>> On 7/15/2021 2:49 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
>> It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:
>> 
>> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/
>> 
>> My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
>> other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.
>> 
>> I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well 
>> for the K-1 crowd.
>> 
>> In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it 
>> is available.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
> America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
>- P.J. O'Rourke
> 
> 
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Bill]

On 7/15/2021 1:14 AM, mike wilson wrote:



On 15 July 2021 at 07:49 Larry Colen  wrote:


It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/

My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.

I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well for 
the K-1 crowd.

In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it is 
available.


I must admit to a burning curiosity over the "strict standards of the 
next-generation star series" which, without the benefit of futuresight, I would have 
described as theoretical aspirations.  Or maybe I just woke up particularly skeptical 
this morning.


You just haven't been paying attention. The Star series lenses are 
moving towards optical performance with no compromises, and sufficiently 
high optical standards to be able to support much higher pixel densities.


One of the things I noticed when moving up the pixel count ladder was 
that lenses that were great at 6mp became lens and less good as the 
pixel count increased and their weaknesses were exaggerated. Ricoh is 
making the new Star lenses to a much higher optical standard in an 
attempt to future proof the designs as much as possible.


And yes, they are also moving towards being very expensive objects. The 
price of admission for the 16-50 will be in the US$2k range, which is a 
significant price jump from the just over US$1k price of the lens it is 
replacing.


bill
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Bill]

On 7/15/2021 12:49 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/

My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.

I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well for 
the K-1 crowd.



The K1 crowd just got a full refresh of the 31mm, 43mm and 77mm Limited 
lenses. Last year was the D FA*85/1.4 and the DFA 70-210/4, the only 
lenses introduced that year.. The year before that was the refresh of 
the 35/2 along with a refreshed DA10-17, in 2017 they introduced the 
DFA*50/1.4.
In 2016, two of the three lenses they introduced were full frame lenses 
and in 2015 three of the five lenses they introduced were for full 
frame. That year they also released a 645 lens.


The D FA 21mm LTD (another lens for the K1 crowd) will likely be 
announced within the next couple of months and should be on the market 
sometime in the fall.


I don't think the release of a lens to replace one that desperately 
needed replacing in the APS-C format is any kind of portent of bad 
things for full frame.


What was concerning was the lack of a new APS-C flagship. The K3 is a 
2013 release, and it got mildly pimped up up in 2015. Six to eight years 
was starting to look like the APS-C line was being relegated to red 
haired stepchild status, with second tier bodies becoming all that those 
users were going to be offered.


I expect that the Pentax 645 line isn't going forwards. I suspect they 
will quietly abandon it.


bill
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Re: 16-50 redo

[Henk Terhell]

PLM versus SDM will make the difference in properties as well as 
identification.

My Tamron 17-50/2.8 needs no replacement yet at a cost of $1400.

Henk

Op 2021-07-15 om 08:49 schreef Larry Colen:

It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/

My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.

I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well for 
the K-1 crowd.

In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it is 
available.


--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com


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Re: 16-50 redo

[mike wilson]

> On 15 July 2021 at 07:49 Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:
> 
> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/
> 
> My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
> other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.
> 
> I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well 
> for the K-1 crowd.  
> 
> In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it 
> is available.

I must admit to a burning curiosity over the "strict standards of the 
next-generation star series" which, without the benefit of futuresight, I would 
have described as theoretical aspirations.  Or maybe I just woke up 
particularly skeptical this morning.
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Re: 16-50 redo

[P. J. Alling]

Not for me really. I have what I need right now, as well as a lot of 
things I don't, and only have a very short purchase list, most of which 
I cannot afford.


I expect, based on the new selling price of the K-3III that the price 
for this lens will be astronomical, (not to mention the fact that 
inflation is heating up and will end up eroding even more purchasing power).


I do hope that Ricoh sells a boat load of them, to keep the K mount 
system alive.


On 7/15/2021 2:49 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/

My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.

I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well for 
the K-1 crowd.

In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it is 
available.


--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com


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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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16-50 redo

[Larry Colen]

It looks like Ricoh is coming out with a new version of the 16-50:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/star_lens/special/sp_da16-50/interview/

My first thought is that they really ought to have made it a 15-50 or some 
other adjustment to the range just so it isn’t confused for the original.

I also note that this bodes well for K-3 iii owners, but maybe not so well for 
the K-1 crowd.  

In any case, it will be interesting to see how it actually performs once it is 
available.


--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com


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