Re: GIMP question
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri PM 02:59:41 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: GIMP question - Original Message - From: mike wilson Subject: Re: GIMP question Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. I believe that if that was anywhere near a realistic figure, even Adobe would have figured out that it was better business sense to reduce the price dramatically. I dunno Mike, we live in a world where someone will break your car window to steal a couple of dollars in loose change that you keep for parking money. I don't think it matters where they price it, people will steal what they think they can get away with, and for some reason, even generally honest people have a liberal view of software piracy. Agreed. But the triangle of price/ease of theft/chance of getting caught is heavily balanced at the moment towards theft. The price is high, the ease is, er, easy and the chance of being caught (and punished) is negligible. Reduse the price and the other two sides become less attractive. If Adobe was _giving_ it away there would still be some people who would steal it but I think the balance can only shift to Adobe's advantage with a reduced price. Scott kind of summed it up with the it's too expensive for me to buy, so since I wouldn't be buying it, I'm not hurting them by stealing it theory. I'm wondering if I could get a Mercedes Benz that way. A friend of mine taught Photoshop classes for several years at one of our community colleges. I don't recall the precise number he told me for the % of pirated programs, but it was very high, well over three quarters. From what Sandy tells us, now that the Chinese are starting to industrialize, and ripping the program off in large numbers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the number was close to 90%. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri AM 12:29:45 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: GIMP question - Original Message - From: Brian Walters Subject: Re: GIMP question Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. I believe that if that was anywhere near a realistic figure, even Adobe would have figured out that it was better business sense to reduce the price dramatically. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: mike wilson Subject: Re: GIMP question Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. I believe that if that was anywhere near a realistic figure, even Adobe would have figured out that it was better business sense to reduce the price dramatically. I dunno Mike, we live in a world where someone will break your car window to steal a couple of dollars in loose change that you keep for parking money. I don't think it matters where they price it, people will steal what they think they can get away with, and for some reason, even generally honest people have a liberal view of software piracy. Scott kind of summed it up with the it's too expensive for me to buy, so since I wouldn't be buying it, I'm not hurting them by stealing it theory. I'm wondering if I could get a Mercedes Benz that way. A friend of mine taught Photoshop classes for several years at one of our community colleges. I don't recall the precise number he told me for the % of pirated programs, but it was very high, well over three quarters. From what Sandy tells us, now that the Chinese are starting to industrialize, and ripping the program off in large numbers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the number was close to 90%. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Jun 27, 2008, at 7:59 AM, William Robb wrote: ...and for some reason, even generally honest people have a liberal view of software piracy. Scott kind of summed it up with the it's too expensive for me to buy, so since I wouldn't be buying it, I'm not hurting them by stealing it theory. People have a similar attitude to photographs. Think about it ... how many photographs are used without permission nowadays? These things are not valued because people do not see them as tangible goods. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: GIMP question People have a similar attitude to photographs. Think about it ... how many photographs are used without permission nowadays? About the same time that the quick copy machines hit the camera shops, I gave up entirely and just started handing the negatives over to my wedding clients, on the theory that they were gonna copy them anyway, they may as well get a print from the negative that would make me look better. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
2008/6/27 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: \ dave, for people who have been using open source/free software for years it is more than a question of cost. i guess it's just a different way of looking at the world HAR! OK cost some kinda weird underdog philosophy :-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:17:53 +0800 David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/6/27 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: \ dave, for people who have been using open source/free software for years it is more than a question of cost. i guess it's just a different way of looking at the world HAR! OK cost some kinda weird underdog philosophy :-) right, you are almost there... :-) regards, subash -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
There's Krita. It's got colour management, 16 bit support, a friendly user interface. But it's somewhat slow, at least in my system. It's worth a try if you use one of the Linux variants. Carlos Sandy Harris escribió: Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. -- Best regards, Bruce Monday, June 23, 2008, 9:15:27 PM, you wrote: BL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Paul BL None taken, Paul. However I use GIMP as a complementary software for the BL LightRoom. I cannot justify buying full PhotoShop and find Elements too BL restrictive. GIMP appears to be just about perfect. BL In fact, hopefully soon, GIMP will support 16-bit editing all over. Then BL it will be better still. BL I do hope that my degree of seriousness hadn't suffered any change due BL to the above revelation ;-). BL Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:12 -0400 Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? with colour depth and a few tools showfoto and digikam are a good pair but until gimp gets 16 bit there are really no photoshop subs i do not think. cinepaint maybe? Bran -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Open source? None that I know of. Sandy Harris wrote: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
The alternative is to not be a serious photographer, apparently. You have to decide if the photography is more important than the hardware/software. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, June 26, 2008, 2:10:12 PM, you wrote: SH Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. SH Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable SH resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, SH several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives SH to GIMP? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul -- Original message -- From: Bran Everseeking [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:12 -0400 Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? with colour depth and a few tools showfoto and digikam are a good pair but until gimp gets 16 bit there are really no photoshop subs i do not think. cinepaint maybe? Bran -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? I have access to reasonable Linux machines, and not to any Windows boxes. For most applications, Linux does everything I need, and in some areas it is obviously, at least for my purposes, superior to Windows. Photo editing may be the exception; that's what I'm trying to discover. Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? No, but I believe that for much software development, you get better results with an open model, where people publish their work for others to criticise and build on. To me, commercial secrecy in software seems much like the secrecy military requirements impose on nuclear science. It may be necessary, but it is obviously bad for the science. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GIMP question I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I am not one of them. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I've been living in China. The normal way to configure a computer (or a building full of them) there is to buy three CDs at around a dollar each: Windows, MS Office and Photoshop. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:48:04 -0700, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. I tried Picture Window Pro recently when I was looking for a 16 bit editor that didn't cost the arm and several legs that Adobe wants for Photoshop CS3. I liked it but couldn't get my head around the multiple windows it created every time I made some sort of adjustment. Short of saving every window as a separate file, I couldn't work out how to save the workflow created by all of the various adjustments. The program doesn't seem to have an easy way to allow the user to tweek the processed image further at a later date. If the program created a layer stack that could be saved in a single file (like PS and PS Elements), I probably would have bought it. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ Monday, June 23, 2008, 9:15:27 PM, you wrote: BL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Paul BL None taken, Paul. However I use GIMP as a complementary software for the BL LightRoom. I cannot justify buying full PhotoShop and find Elements too BL restrictive. GIMP appears to be just about perfect. BL In fact, hopefully soon, GIMP will support 16-bit editing all over. Then BL it will be better still. BL I do hope that my degree of seriousness hadn't suffered any change due BL to the above revelation ;-). BL Boris -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:12 -0400, Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? Probably only Cinepaint - but it's interface is just as inscrutable as the GIMP's.. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 06:42:40PM -0400, Sandy Harris wrote: On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? I have access to reasonable Linux machines, and not to any Windows boxes. For most applications, Linux does everything I need, and in some areas it is obviously, at least for my purposes, superior to Windows. Photo editing may be the exception; that's what I'm trying to discover. Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? No, but I believe that for much software development, you get better results with an open model, where people publish their work for others to criticise and build on. Well, there's nothing stopping people doing this with image software, either. But to date the results aren't thrilling - dcraw is nowhere near as good as Adobe Camera Raw, and GIMP is pitiful when compared to just about any of the Adobe image editing products. I think Lightroom and PhotoShop Elements are well worth the money. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Hi Paul On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:04:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: Brian Walters Subject: Re: GIMP question Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Brian Walters wrote: when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. This anecdote may or may not help you, perhaps it was a rare event. I initially bought PS Elements from adobe.com as a download (ie no box, but also didn't have to pay for shipping) for about $100 US way back in 2004. I registered it and signed-up for email announcements so I could get the little freebie (some headline font). About 4 months later Adobe emailed me an offer to upgrade to full PS CS2 for $399 US. I thought about that for about 15 seconds then went straight for the download. I recently updated that to CS3 when I upgraded to an iMac from my aging Powerbook G4. That download cost $199 US. So, even counting PSE in there, my use of full PS has cost me $700 US for four years of use, and I expect to use CS3 until well into the CS4 cycle, perhaps even skipping that and waiting for CS5. Seeing as how the initial upgrade at $399 is less than the amount I paid for one decent all-metal prime, I think it's justified. Photoshop, Bridge and Camera Raw are the critical parts of my workflow now. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Okay. Although it's not completely accurate. PhotoShop won't work without a valid serial number. It has to be authorized over the web. But what does any of this have to do with insisting on open source software? What's the motivation there? That was my question. Paul -- Original message -- From: Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I've been living in China. The normal way to configure a computer (or a building full of them) there is to buy three CDs at around a dollar each: Windows, MS Office and Photoshop. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
At 07:12 AM 27/06/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GIMP question I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I am not one of them. Me neither. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
I'm with you here. I haven't gone to PSCS 3. I still use PSCS, and it works just fine. Sixteen bit support, pretty much every photoShop function one might want, and excellent RAW conversions. The lack of batch processing is a problem, but I findi I want to treat each frame individually anyway. Paul -- Original message -- From: Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Paul On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:04:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Brian Walters Subject: Re: GIMP question Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. That would be a valid consideration IF enough of the people who are stealing it would be willing to buy it if they couldn't steal it anymore. But I seriously doubt enough of them are, and your price would probably stay the same. The folks running unlicensed software would just move on to something else. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Remember, you only pay the bad price once. Once you have a legit copy of PS, upgrades are very reasonably priced (~$200) -Adam On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paul On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:04:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Sandy Harris wrote: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to consider Picture Window Pro - it has much more power than elements such as full color management, full 16 bit support for all operations, curves, masking, etc. But it is priced about the same as Elements. Assuming one wants to use only open source software and has reasonable resources -- some variant of Unix, a few cores at a few gigahertz each, several gigs of RAM and a decent video system -- what are the alternatives to GIMP? Lightzone. It's not free, but it's in the same ballpark as Lightroom or Aperture. http://www.lightcrafts.com/products/ The Linux version went through an extended beta after the Windows and Mac versions were released. It was available at no cost for a couple years and if you poke around you might be able to find an older version out there somewhere. Check out some of the video tutorials. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
At 09:44 AM 27/06/2008, Paul Stenquist wrote: Okay. Although it's not completely accurate. PhotoShop won't work without a valid serial number. It has to be authorized over the web. Sorry Paul that's just wrong. Cracked software works just fine But what does any of this have to do with insisting on open source software? What's the motivation there? That was my question. Cost Here CS3 runs at about AU$800, CS3 Extended about AU$1200. GIMP other open source SW runs at about AU$0. As an example I own PTGui for stitching my panoramas. I bought it before I knew about Hugin. Hugin, is open source, does everything that PTGui does, and is free. Cheers, Dave -- Original message -- From: Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I've been living in China. The normal way to configure a computer (or a building full of them) there is to buy three CDs at around a dollar each: Windows, MS Office and Photoshop. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
-- Original message -- From: David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 07:12 AM 27/06/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GIMP question I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I am not one of them. Me neither. Dave Methinks he doth protest too much:-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
At 10:04 AM 27/06/2008, Paul Stenquist wrote: A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I am not one of them. Me neither. Dave Methinks he doth protest too much:-) Nope. When I bought Lightroom recently I also got the CS2 - CS3 Extended upgrade. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
And with internet authorization and serial number recording, it's not all that easy to steal a copy. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, you only pay the bad price once. Once you have a legit copy of PS, upgrades are very reasonably priced (~$200) -Adam On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paul On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:04:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And with internet authorization and serial number recording, it's not all that easy to steal a copy. Paul And with BitTorrent, it's not all that hard. Just sayin'. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Re: GIMP question Okay. Although it's not completely accurate. PhotoShop won't work without a valid serial number. It has to be authorized over the web. I'll tell that to my friends who are using freeCS3 . If you check around, there are several ways to crack the validation. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: Scott Loveless Subject: Re: GIMP question Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. That would be a valid consideration IF enough of the people who are stealing it would be willing to buy it if they couldn't steal it anymore. But I seriously doubt enough of them are, and your price would probably stay the same. The folks running unlicensed software would just move on to something else. Like what? The GIMP? We've been over this justificaton for stealing software before. It doesn't cut it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GIMP question And with internet authorization and serial number recording, it's not all that easy to steal a copy. Paul If you are talking Photoshop, it's dead easy. Perhaps Mac users don't have access to cracked software, but Windows users certainly do. Perhaps I'll post the instructions for how to get freeCS3, I am sure one of my friends will tell me. I also know a fellow who is using freeLightroom. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Scott Loveless Subject: Re: GIMP question Consider that those of us who buy the software are subsidising the 98% of the users who are stealing it. That would be a valid consideration IF enough of the people who are stealing it would be willing to buy it if they couldn't steal it anymore. But I seriously doubt enough of them are, and your price would probably stay the same. The folks running unlicensed software would just move on to something else. Like what? The GIMP? We've been over this justificaton for stealing software before. It doesn't cut it. I didn't justify anything. Read it again. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
The auth system was cracked day of release. Uses the Phone Authorization option rather than internet authorization (as Adobe can't guarantee that PS systems are net connected). I've yet to see a software-based validation system that hasn't been broken. Dongle-based auth is much better, but still breakable (requires a patch though). Stealing PS is dead easy. Easier than windows in fact (MS's auth system is significantly harder to circumvent than Adobe's). -Adam On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 10:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And with internet authorization and serial number recording, it's not all that easy to steal a copy. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, you only pay the bad price once. Once you have a legit copy of PS, upgrades are very reasonably priced (~$200) -Adam On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paul On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:04:51 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. Paul Even though I use a lot of free and open source software, I have no problem with software developers getting a reasonable profit from their efforts. But when the cost of the software is about the same as the cost of the camera (as in CS3), I remain to be convinced that it's reasonable. Abobe also seems to be intent on keeping Elements sufficiently crippled to force photographers to the higher priced product (eg, no 16 bit adjustment layers). I'll happily buy Elements when and if it supports 16 bit adjustment layers but, until then, my old version of PS 6 will have to suffice. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:01:54 +0800 David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:44 AM 27/06/2008, Paul Stenquist wrote: But what does any of this have to do with insisting on open source software? What's the motivation there? That was my question. Cost dave, for people who have been using open source/free software for years it is more than a question of cost. i guess it's just a different way of looking at the world each to his/her own... digikam serves my purposes quite well as does Gimp. :-) regards, subash -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
\ dave, for people who have been using open source/free software for years it is more than a question of cost. i guess it's just a different way of looking at the world HAR! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Any copy protection scheme can be broken, I expect that the pirate software available in China doesn't require connecting to Adobe in any way. Of course incremental upgrading won't happen either and new releases will be available sometime after the normal release, but for a dollar... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay. Although it's not completely accurate. PhotoShop won't work without a valid serial number. It has to be authorized over the web. But what does any of this have to do with insisting on open source software? What's the motivation there? That was my question. Paul -- Original message -- From: Sandy Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still mystified by this. Why does someone with reasonable resources need a Linus based photo processing system? Do you believe that software developers arent't entitled to profit and some protection of their intellectual property? If so, please send me all yur photos so I can sell them. A lot of people do. Photoshop is just about the most pirated program out there at the moment. I personally know close to a dozen people with pirated Photoshop on their computers. I've been living in China. The normal way to configure a computer (or a building full of them) there is to buy three CDs at around a dollar each: Windows, MS Office and Photoshop. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
D. Glenn Arthur Jr. a écrit : Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? I know how to tell it, apply the same corrections to these two images, but not how to tell it, apply different corrections to these images in such a way that this patch of floor comes out the same in both. -- Glenn When I want to simulate a color degradation (virage de couleurs in french) on my BW photos, I use the menu : Color-Map-Color up using a sample (not sure of the terms, I use a french version) Then I Capture colors from a sample and I give to Gimp a sample taken here : http://epaperpress.com/psphoto/index.html in BlackWhite-Classic Tones If it can modify my black and white photos to map theses tones, maybe it the same for colored ones. Xavier. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 9:21 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, being able to properly handle RAW files in one step (instead of converting them with dcraw and then reading the TIFFs) would be nice, especially since dcraw seems to lose the camera metadata when I do that. You could try the ufraw plugin, which provides a GUI frontend to dcraw for opening raw files in the Gimp. I don't know if it will solve your metadata problem or not. http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Bit of all 3, as well as cost (OS is free, so are all major upgrades and it runs better on old hardware than any other current OS) and ease of installation (it's actually a lot easier to install and initially configure Ubuntu or Fedora Core than any version of Windows). Not to mention it's a far better server OS for those of us who run servers in-house (I use a mix of OS X and Linux on my servers, depending on what hardware's available). Linux actually isn't hard to use, and is very usable as a desktop OS provided you aren't wedded to any major commercial software and you don't game. -Adam On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. I'm not a computer guy, so pardon my ignorance. But I can't help but wonder why people choose to run linux. Is it a form of self flagellation? Or is it a way of protesting Microsoft's domination of the world outside of apple? Or just a cult of sorts? Educate me. Paul On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Brian Walters wrote: On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) I've tried installing Photoshop 6 under Linux via Wine but the installation hangs. However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Paul None taken, Paul. However I use GIMP as a complementary software for the LightRoom. I cannot justify buying full PhotoShop and find Elements too restrictive. GIMP appears to be just about perfect. In fact, hopefully soon, GIMP will support 16-bit editing all over. Then it will be better still. I do hope that my degree of seriousness hadn't suffered any change due to the above revelation ;-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
GIMP question
Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? I know how to tell it, apply the same corrections to these two images, but not how to tell it, apply different corrections to these images in such a way that this patch of floor comes out the same in both. -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? I know how to tell it, apply the same corrections to these two images, but not how to tell it, apply different corrections to these images in such a way that this patch of floor comes out the same in both. -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
No, the levels tool is not a 'Smart' tool. -Adam On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:24 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? I know how to tell it, apply the same corrections to these two images, but not how to tell it, apply different corrections to these images in such a way that this patch of floor comes out the same in both. -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Well, obviously it's free and open source, and it's not so hard on files, the photographer however may experience severe frustration. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? I know how to tell it, apply the same corrections to these two images, but not how to tell it, apply different corrections to these images in such a way that this patch of floor comes out the same in both. -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) What's out there that's as serious as GIMP that's also free and cross-platform? (Really, I haven't been keeping up, so far all I know there might _be_ alternatives now.) -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
I'm fairly ignorant in regard to operating systems, so my comment may be misguided. PhotoShop Elements comes free with a lot of hardware, but it doesn't run on LInux. I don't happen to have a free install at the moment, but someone else on the list might. Of course it doesn't run under Linux. Sorry if my post offended. Hope everything works out well for you. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) What's out there that's as serious as GIMP that's also free and cross-platform? (Really, I haven't been keeping up, so far all I know there might _be_ alternatives now.) -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Not to belabor this, but you might also consider that a used copy of PSCS 1 running on a moderately fast windows machine will probably blow the doors of GIMP. I still use PSCS 1 for most of my photo work. It's just fine for almost everything. But I don't have a network. Just a good machine that will process my photos. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) What's out there that's as serious as GIMP that's also free and cross-platform? (Really, I haven't been keeping up, so far all I know there might _be_ alternatives now.) -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: (Does Photoshop run under Linux? Thanks to WINE, yes it does ... http://appdb.winehq.org/ Limited to CS2, and there are some usability issues, so it may or may note be truly practical. If you can stick to using just Windows (and/or a Mac), Photoshop Elements 6 is an absolute bargain. It costs less then $100 US to buy full retail, and it includes a full version of Adobe Camera Raw (apparently). Cheers! -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (quoting out of order...) Sorry if my post offended. Hope everything works out well for you. You did not offend me; you asked why I would do such a thing, and I gave one explicit answer (poverty) and implied another (lack of knowledge of alternatives). If you'd told me that the Obvious Answer to my problems was that I really Ought To Use a particular other (non-free) tool, _that_ might have been offensive (and in the past I've used the Oh, you're offerring me a copy, are you? line) ... instead, you asked and I answered. No offense. I'm fairly ignorant in regard to operating systems, so my comment may be misguided. PhotoShop Elements comes free with a lot of hardware, but it doesn't run on LInux. Two things there: a) all I know about Photoshop Elements (and I may be mistaken about even this much) is that it's a stripped-down version of Photoshop ... is that right? How badly will I miss features I learned to expect when I did have access to a (now ancient) copy of Photoshop on a Mac Classic, and that I take for granted in GIMP? Or is it really all but a little bit that hardly anybody ever misses of Photoshop? And b) until/unless I can afford to seriously upgrade my Windows hardware -- and I have trouble convincing myself to throw hardware upgrades at Windows when I do so much more under Linux -- not being able to run it under Linux will continue to be a factor. I'm using an assortment of hand-me-down hardware, so none of it is ever close to the power of what people are buying new, and I tend to have a lot of stuff going at once. Running out of RAM is always a concern, and splitting the workload across several computers (even if I'm only sitting in front of one of them) helps. If Photoshop Elements plays nicely under WINE (and if WINE plays nicely with X (I've never actually gotten WINE to behave in the first place, so I'm doing something wrong)), that could be a workaround. IFF[*] it also provides all the tools I'm accustomed to relying on. FWIW, I'm not averse to mixing command-line tools, like the ImageMagick suite, into my workflow, when I'm not trying to do something with them that really wants to be moused. -- Glenn [*] Mathematics shorthand for if and only if. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] suggestedr: Not to belabor this, but you might also consider that a used copy of PSCS 1 running on a moderately fast windows machine will probably blow the doors of GIMP. PSCS? And I'm not sure what counts as moderately fast these days; I'm running a 200MHz Windows machine and a couple of 800MHz Linux boxes. (Even so, RAM footprint is a bigger issue than processor speed for me, most of the time.) -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Bruce Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: (Does Photoshop run under Linux? Thanks to WINE, yes it does ... Ah. Good to know. Time to revisit the why can't I get WINE to work like the manual says problem. (I wonder whether it'll behave any better under Ubuntu than under Debian ...) Limited to CS2, and there are some usability issues, so it may or may note be truly practical. Er ... If you can stick to using just Windows (and/or a Mac), Oh please don't sentence me to just Windows! Even with Cygwin, that's just not right! (And a Mac, for general use, is out of reach -- I've got one hand-me-down Mac that's officially supposed to be able to run OS X, but the friend who gave it to me says it only _walks_ OS X and suggested keeping Classic on it. If another friend's startup gets off the ground and he hires me as a part-time developer, that will be how I wind up with a modern Mac. Right now I only use a Mac when spending the night at a Mac-owner's house. I *like* Macs, but there doesn't seem to be much of a hand-me-down stream of them.) Photoshop Elements 6 is an absolute bargain. It costs less then $100 US to buy full retail, ... which is about $150 more than I can spare right now (yeah, money is scary-tight and I'm a bit short of being able to pay the water bill, and when I _do_ come up with that much spare cash, I already owe it to another list member to pay for the *istD, before I can in good conscience go spending it on software). But the suggestion that spare copies that came with other stuff might be floating around could bring the answer there. and it includes a full version of Adobe Camera Raw (apparently). Okay, being able to properly handle RAW files in one step (instead of converting them with dcraw and then reading the TIFFs) would be nice, especially since dcraw seems to lose the camera metadata when I do that. Not that I have enough CF storage to be able to afford to shoot RAW very much yet. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:24 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way in GIMP to tell the 'levels' tool, make this bit here look like this sample from that image over there? No, the levels tool is not a 'Smart' tool. Ah. I was afraid of that. So I guess the next question is: is there enough information available to the Script-Fu interface for me to write a filter that'll do that? Time for my long-procrastinated reading of the Script-Fu docs. -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
PSCS is PhotoShop CS 1. However, as someone else mentioned, PhotoShop Elements may well be superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] suggestedr: Not to belabor this, but you might also consider that a used copy of PSCS 1 running on a moderately fast windows machine will probably blow the doors of GIMP. PSCS? And I'm not sure what counts as moderately fast these days; I'm running a 200MHz Windows machine and a couple of 800MHz Linux boxes. (Even so, RAM footprint is a bigger issue than processor speed for me, most of the time.) -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
I'm running a 1.8GHz Windows (Win2K) box. It's a bit on the slow side these days... D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] suggestedr: Not to belabor this, but you might also consider that a used copy of PSCS 1 running on a moderately fast windows machine will probably blow the doors of GIMP. PSCS? And I'm not sure what counts as moderately fast these days; I'm running a 200MHz Windows machine and a couple of 800MHz Linux boxes. (Even so, RAM footprint is a bigger issue than processor speed for me, most of the time.) -- Glenn -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) I've tried installing Photoshop 6 under Linux via Wine but the installation hangs. However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Interesting. I'm not a computer guy, so pardon my ignorance. But I can't help but wonder why people choose to run linux. Is it a form of self flagellation? Or is it a way of protesting Microsoft's domination of the world outside of apple? Or just a cult of sorts? Educate me. Paul On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Brian Walters wrote: On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) I've tried installing Photoshop 6 under Linux via Wine but the installation hangs. However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:06:32 -0400, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Interesting. I'm not a computer guy, so pardon my ignorance. But I can't help but wonder why people choose to run linux. Is it a form of self flagellation? Or is it a way of protesting Microsoft's domination of the world outside of apple? Or just a cult of sorts? Educate me. Paul Actually, it's probably a bit of all three. (Self flagellation, is good for the soul, so they say...) Initially I run it to access the internet through a (relatively) virus-free environment and to see if I could successfully install a dual boot system. Later, I found that there was very little I needed Windows for. Open Office does everything I need regarding word processing and spreadsheets and Linux HTML editors are as good as any in Windows so managing my websites was not a problem. Email, web browsers, FTP clients - they're all available in Linux. But image editing and management - that's another story. Much as I tried I could not learn to love GIMP and when I went looking for a good image archiving program, there wasn't anything suitable in Linux (there may be now but it's too late - I've invested too much time in StudioLine to consider starting again). Fortunately I can run both Photoshop and StudioLine under Win 2000 in a Linux Virtual Box. Having said all that, I still maintain my Windows XP partition as a dual boot with Linux for those occasions when I need to do serious image editing. There is, of course, a fourth reason to run Linux. It's free, and that appeals to the cheapskate in me! Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Brian Walters wrote: On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [EMAIL PROTECTED] opined: Please don't take offense, but the real question is why would any serious photographer subject their file to GIMP? Uh, because in addition to the other adjectives and nouns that describe me, 'broke' and 'poor' must be included. I'm trying to figure out how to pay my water bill and buy gasoline; the software budget has been empty for a very long time, alas. (Does Photoshop run under Linux? I'm short on processing power in my workstations, so I often run GIMP on a server downstairs and throw the interface to a machine upstairs using X. So I'm running it on more than one machine, sometimes under Windows, sometimes under Linux, and sometimes on a borrowed Mac when I'm visiting somebody else.) I've tried installing Photoshop 6 under Linux via Wine but the installation hangs. However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Interesting. I'm not a computer guy, so pardon my ignorance. But I can't help but wonder why people choose to run linux. Is it a form of self flagellation? Or is it a way of protesting Microsoft's domination of the world outside of apple? Or just a cult of sorts? Educate me. For some minority of Linux users, it's a protest against Microsoft. Those folks exist and are vocal, but it's not the best reason to use Linux. Nor, AFAICT, anywhere near being the most common reason. (And a bunch of them run BSD instead of Linux anyhow.) And it's certainly not self flagellation. In some ways, this is like asking, Why would anyone care how easy it is to use manual mode on their camera when modern exposure automation is so good? Or, Why would anyone choose to drive a Land Rover instead of a Lexus? I'm going to be deliberately careless about distinguishing between Linux and Unix here, because for the purposes of answering this question, they may as well be interchangeable. That's not something one can get away with in every context, but reasons for choosing Linux mostly ovelap reasons for choosing Unix at the level I'm going to get into here. For certain kinds of things, Linux -- well, Unix and other Unix-like operating systems -- is just _better_. Really. And for a larger number of things it's about as good or not significantly worse. For some things, it's not so great (or it's not bad but Windows beats it there). But there's a saying among us computer geeks: All operating systems suck. They just suck in different ways. So you pick the OS to fit a) the task, and b) the operator's style. Actually, for many tasks you satisfy the operator's mental style first, and then ask whether the task parameters are important enough to override that. Because folks tend to work better when their tools fit their hands ... or their brains, as the case may be. Now admittedly, Mac OS X changes the equation here. A lot. Because beneath its very well crafted GUI facade, it's Unix underneath, and exposing that for the Unix-geeks is trivial (just call up the application called ... uh, I think it's called 'terminal'). But some folks still like Linux for various reasons (or NetBSD or FreeBSD or ...), and some of us can't afford Macs, or don't see the point to using a Mac as a server when something cheaper could do that job and the Mac can be saved for use as a workstation, or like the greater freedom to _tinker_ that comes with using an open source OS. And a few are Apple-haters, avoiding what they know is a good OS out of principle, just like the Microsoft-haters, but most people have less 'activist' reasons for picking their OS. Have you ever explored the Command.COM interface under Windows? (In some versions it's labelled MS-DOS Prompt.) I bet it feels kinda clunky. Well, it is, but it doesn't have to be ... under Unix/Linux you have a choice of 'shells' -- programs that do the kind of thing Command.COM does, but more more powerfully and cleanly. But why, when everything is so much easier with a GUI? Because not everything is ... and some of us find a command-line interface easier to work with even for tasks that a GUI doesn't inherently suck at. With Linux, whether you're using the CLI or the GUI at the moment, more control, more power is at your fingertips than under Windows. And if you're the sort who knows what he wants to do with that power, _not_ having it makes using Windows feel like you're wearing handcuffs. Me, I'd much rather spend a minute and a half thinking and then type one long command that tells the computer exactly how I want all the files in this directory renamed, than to spend however long it takes to right-click-rename-type the new name for a few hundred files one after the other. So what's to stop me from turning this around and asking why everybody doesn't switch to Linux? Because for some people, Windows really does fit their brains better. Choose a tool to fit the hand/brain. And even for people who aren't that strongly wired for Windows, there's an issue of allocation of mental resources: with great power comes great responsibility -- one of the consequences of having so much more control using Linux is that the user is _expected_ to control more instead of just letting the OS guess. If you need (or just want) that control, this isn't a big price. If you're not bumping into Windows' limitations, then the question becomes, is learning how to wield this power I'm not going to use often, just to be able to drive this thing the rest of the time, worth it? And sometimes, however much it makes us geeks want to shout, You don't know what you're missing!, it really _isn't_ worth it for a number of people -- they can better spend that time learning something else. There's another old saying: Unix _is_ user-friendly. It's just choosy about who its friends are. (This saying dates back to before graphical
Re: GIMP question
Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) Not familiar with VirtualBox, but I think I can guess what it does. :-) Now, I wonder whether my ex-housemate took his WinXP install media with him ... -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I don't use windows. My experience with microsoft OS is limited to those times I've been stuck with a PC and nothing else.. I'm on Macs now, but I started on Apple //s. In the early days -- early eighties -- I wrote strings in ASCII Express to log onto bulletin boards and internet sites. Nowadays, I use terminal from time to time, but only for diagnosis or system fixes. And I'm not savvy enough to wing it in unix without help. Computers are just an appliance for me these days. My Macs run nicely and do everything I want. But I can understand why some might want to play in Linux. Paul On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:10 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Interesting. I'm not a computer guy, so pardon my ignorance. But I can't help but wonder why people choose to run linux. Is it a form of self flagellation? Or is it a way of protesting Microsoft's domination of the world outside of apple? Or just a cult of sorts? Educate me. For some minority of Linux users, it's a protest against Microsoft. Those folks exist and are vocal, but it's not the best reason to use Linux. Nor, AFAICT, anywhere near being the most common reason. (And a bunch of them run BSD instead of Linux anyhow.) And it's certainly not self flagellation. In some ways, this is like asking, Why would anyone care how easy it is to use manual mode on their camera when modern exposure automation is so good? Or, Why would anyone choose to drive a Land Rover instead of a Lexus? I'm going to be deliberately careless about distinguishing between Linux and Unix here, because for the purposes of answering this question, they may as well be interchangeable. That's not something one can get away with in every context, but reasons for choosing Linux mostly ovelap reasons for choosing Unix at the level I'm going to get into here. For certain kinds of things, Linux -- well, Unix and other Unix-like operating systems -- is just _better_. Really. And for a larger number of things it's about as good or not significantly worse. For some things, it's not so great (or it's not bad but Windows beats it there). But there's a saying among us computer geeks: All operating systems suck. They just suck in different ways. So you pick the OS to fit a) the task, and b) the operator's style. Actually, for many tasks you satisfy the operator's mental style first, and then ask whether the task parameters are important enough to override that. Because folks tend to work better when their tools fit their hands ... or their brains, as the case may be. Now admittedly, Mac OS X changes the equation here. A lot. Because beneath its very well crafted GUI facade, it's Unix underneath, and exposing that for the Unix-geeks is trivial (just call up the application called ... uh, I think it's called 'terminal'). But some folks still like Linux for various reasons (or NetBSD or FreeBSD or ...), and some of us can't afford Macs, or don't see the point to using a Mac as a server when something cheaper could do that job and the Mac can be saved for use as a workstation, or like the greater freedom to _tinker_ that comes with using an open source OS. And a few are Apple-haters, avoiding what they know is a good OS out of principle, just like the Microsoft-haters, but most people have less 'activist' reasons for picking their OS. Have you ever explored the Command.COM interface under Windows? (In some versions it's labelled MS-DOS Prompt.) I bet it feels kinda clunky. Well, it is, but it doesn't have to be ... under Unix/Linux you have a choice of 'shells' -- programs that do the kind of thing Command.COM does, but more more powerfully and cleanly. But why, when everything is so much easier with a GUI? Because not everything is ... and some of us find a command-line interface easier to work with even for tasks that a GUI doesn't inherently suck at. With Linux, whether you're using the CLI or the GUI at the moment, more control, more power is at your fingertips than under Windows. And if you're the sort who knows what he wants to do with that power, _not_ having it makes using Windows feel like you're wearing handcuffs. Me, I'd much rather spend a minute and a half thinking and then type one long command that tells the computer exactly how I want all the files in this directory renamed, than to spend however long it takes to right-click-rename-type the new name for a few hundred files one after the other. So what's to stop me from turning this around and asking why everybody doesn't switch to Linux? Because for some people, Windows really does fit their brains better. Choose a tool to fit the hand/brain. And even for people who aren't that strongly wired for Windows, there's an issue of allocation of mental resources: with great power comes great responsibility -- one of the consequences of having so much
Re: GIMP question
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:10:11PM -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: For certain kinds of things, Linux -- well, Unix and other Unix-like operating systems -- is just _better_. Really. Indeed. Linux runs perfectly well on a 256MB 800MHz Pentium-3. And if what you want to do involves inter-process communication, or shell programming, Linux is definitely the better platform. But why, when everything is so much easier with a GUI? Because not everything is ... and some of us find a command-line interface easier to work with even for tasks that a GUI doesn't inherently suck at. With Linux, whether you're using the CLI or the GUI at the moment, more control, more power is at your fingertips than under Windows. That depends. I write cross-platform code for a living, most of which usually runs on a Linux box. But when I'm debugging I'll often run the code on my windows XP box; the incremental compile and continue interface I get from Windows Visual Studio is vastly superior to what I get from the gcc/g++/gdb Linux platform. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GIMP question
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:13:46 -0400, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, you can run Photoshop 6 in VirtualBox under Linux, but, of course, you need a Windows OS to install in the VirtualBox (I installed Windows 2000) Not familiar with VirtualBox, but I think I can guess what it does. :-) I'm sure you can. But here's the link anyway: http://www.virtualbox.org/ There are other virtual machines but this suits me very well. The main advantage is that I can have Linux and Windows both open at the same time. Switching between one and the other is as simple as clicking on the desktop switcher. The only downside is that you have to allocate a chunk of RAM to VirtualBox so that you can load the other OS. This means that your applications have less RAM available than if you were only running one OS. I haven't run into any problems on my 1 GB system. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
