Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
[in an old thread] on 2013-10-10 9:28 CollinB wrote So it's like the old 6-10Mp cameras equal shooting 125 and now we all have blad equivalent bodies and still drool for more. taking this thought experiment literally, if we assume megapixel increases are equivalent to film area increases (that is, that every denser sensor resolves as well per pixel, and that lenses are perfect, etc.), and we assign 35mm film a nominal 10 megapixels, here are the pixel counts we'd need to achieve what larger film formats could resolve: 36x24 mm = 864 sq mm = 10 mp 6x4.5 cm = 2700 sq mm = 31 mp 6x7 cm = 4200 sq mm = 49 mp 4x5 in = 12903 sq mm = 149 mp 8x10 in = 51613 = 597 mp -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Curiously, we had our friends visit us today. I have exported all the photos from our vacation in 1000 pixels over long side format and ran them through built-in slide show program of my Panasonic 32 TV. They looked rather surprisingly good in terms of visibility of things that I thought made the photos work. What I would like Pentax-Ricoh to do, is to produce another GXR camera body with built in viewfinder (it is so much more convenient this way) and 16 MP sensor similar to that of K-5, but with output equal to that of current M-module in terms of color separation/quality and tonal gradation (*). It is probably even less likely that what you ask for, Peter. Boris (*) If necessary - limit highest ISO to 3200, I don't care. On 10/11/2013 8:26 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: I not goo-goo gah-gah over 24mp. Everything in my image processing system is sized for making at most 300dpi 13x19 prints, and even that will severely strain the system. Any processing out of the ordinary with a K20D file, (about 240dpi at that print size), can take a very long time to complete in Photoshop, and those are files that only expand out to about 80meg in memory when being processed. That said if I use a lowish ISO and get the exposure right, so that the file doesn't need a lot of processing and keep in mind the limitations of my particular printer when processing the file, I get really nice printed results. What I'd really like to see is a K-5III with a lot of the improvements that the K-3 has but without the headphone bump and a 16mp image processing train. Oh, yea, you if they could put the SR switch back instead of the movie stuff that would be nice, and an aperture simulator as long as I'm asking for the improbable. That's not to say that I wouldn't like to see a 24mp full frame Pentax K-1 with full K mount support, I just don't really need one at this point in time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On 09/10/2013 8:03 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 09:42:36PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 9:03 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 08:46:33PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 8:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. I think that's when you realize that it's Ricoh and not Pentax OMG! Pentax is DOOOomed! I think the Pentax brand has more going for it now than it has had in years. thanks to Ricoh... Watch the sarchasm, that first step is a doozy. Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill I agree with much of what you say, but leapfrogs??? It's still a 24MP camera that's a year and a half to two years late. It's amazing that 3 months ago the K-5/K-5II fulfilled everyone's needs and 'why would one want more resolution?', and now it's goo-goo ga-ga over the K-3. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill I agree with much of what you say, but leapfrogs??? It's still a 24MP camera that's a year and a half to two years late. It's amazing that 3 months ago the K-5/K-5II fulfilled everyone's needs and 'why would one want more resolution?', and now it's goo-goo ga-ga over the K-3. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Darren Addy wrote: Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. Dear Darren, 1. What are you comparing? You haven't touched it yet. 2. You beat the same old drum even when Pentax now has a higher resolution body. 3. MP is one of the few attributes that can be stated unequivocally as a number and is a known metric. 4. If you don't believe imaging sensor resolution is not among the most important metrics in determining the technical 'quality' of a recorded image (along with the resolving power of the lens at X aperture, and yes noise characteristics, etc.), then you're missing something. Your use of the word 'only' was presumptuous and mistaken. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. How soon we forget ... that the bigger the neg the better the image. Pixel count is merely the digital equivalent of larger film formats -- except we get to keep our lenses. So it's like the old 6-10Mp cameras equal shooting 125 and now we all have blad equivalent bodies and still drool for more. If there's one principle that defines American society it is embodied in the term upgrade. And we're all guilty. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: Darren Addy wrote: Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. Dear Darren, 1. What are you comparing? You haven't touched it yet. What are bashing? You haven't touched it yet. 2. You beat the same old drum even when Pentax now has a higher resolution body. Not sure what you are referring to when you say beat the same old drum, and maybe you haven't been following the earlier threads on the K-3 specs - but this camera is upgraded in wy more ways than just a higher resolution sensor. To me the biggest thing that unlocks most of its capabilities is the PRIME III image processor (Fujitsu Milbeaut version 7). Others are intrigued by the innovative, selectable AA. Others are happy that Pentax finally appears to be catching up in the AF arena. ALL of these upgrades in one camera? 3. MP is one of the few attributes that can be stated unequivocally as a number and is a known metric. This is certainly true, but it is like judging a computer based only on the speed of the processor and not looking at the other components like bus speed, etc. etc. Cameras and computers are similar in that, just because a new processor comes out (or a new sensor) there may not be hardware and software that can take advantage of all of its capabilities for a year or two. That is why the age of the processor (even if it is 1-1/2 year old technology) doesn't matter. The PRIME III can handle the data that sensor puts out. The Nikon D7100 is an example of a camera with the same sensor, but crippled by using the previous generation of image processor in concert with it. (Nikon - and other manufacturers that use the Milbeaut v7 - will catch up, and probably very soon, but there is a reason why Nikon guru Thom Hogan was moaning about how the K-3 meets the needs of a certain demographic of serious photographer that Nikon seems to be neglecting). 4. If you don't believe imaging sensor resolution is not among the most important metrics in determining the technical 'quality' of a recorded image (along with the resolving power of the lens at X aperture, and yes noise characteristics, etc.), then you're missing something. Where did you get the impression that I don't think it is among the most important components? Your use of the word 'only' was presumptuous and mistaken. [Rereads the message that I was replying to.] Yep. The higher resolution sensor was the ONLY thing you mentioned. Not that being presumptuous and mistaken is entirely foreign to me, however. :) -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. How soon we forget ... that the bigger the neg the better the image. Pixel count is merely the digital equivalent of larger film formats -- Snore. Snore. Sno ... Wazzat? Oh, did something interesting happen? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
You are oversimplifying things a bit Collin. In the film world there was more than size, there was WHAT FILM you put in the camera. You had your choice of different speed films and had to pay a price in the grain (for example). Similarly, in the digital world more pixels does not equal larger negative if the resolution is offset by greater noise (which is what happens when you put more pixels on the SAME SIZE SENSOR). Loss in the S/N ration department means loss of dynamic range too. The camera's design has to mitigate those problems for there to be a real improvement. That's why I'm very interested to see what Pentax has done with this sensor, especially in the dynamic range and high ISO noise departments. Those are the two metrics that are the most important (to me). I'm in no hurry to upgrade, in any event, but I'm happy to see the patience of the Pentax community rewarded by what looks like what will be the top APS-C camera on the market (for the moment, at least). In any event, it should remain a very good buy for a good couple of years, assuming it's performance is as exciting as its specs. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 10:28 AM, CollinB coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote: Wow. I thought that most of us had advanced beyond thinking that megapixels was the only metric to use when comparing DSLR capabilities. How soon we forget ... that the bigger the neg the better the image. Pixel count is merely the digital equivalent of larger film formats -- except we get to keep our lenses. So it's like the old 6-10Mp cameras equal shooting 125 and now we all have blad equivalent bodies and still drool for more. If there's one principle that defines American society it is embodied in the term upgrade. And we're all guilty. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Darren Addy wrote: What are bashing? You haven't touched it yet. You. :) Certainly not the K-3. I was reacting to the word leapfrogs in Bill's post. Not sure what you are referring to when you say beat the same old drum, and maybe you haven't been following the earlier threads on the K-3 specs - but this camera is upgraded in wy more ways than just a higher resolution sensor. To me the biggest thing that unlocks most of its capabilities is the PRIME III image processor (Fujitsu Milbeaut version 7). Others are intrigued by the innovative, selectable AA. Others are happy that Pentax finally appears to be catching up in the AF arena. ALL of these upgrades in one camera? When the topic has come up regarding the lack of a higher resolution sensor you tend to downplay the desirability of one when Pentax doesn't have one and make statements like 'it's not the only thing that's important', which is true. Then when I mention just the 24MP sensor, without mentioning other specifications, you infer my 'thinking has not advanced' regarding the importance of MP, as if it was retarded. That's what I mean. Yes I understood all that. I heard that AF was upgraded on the K-7, the K-5, and the K-5II as well. I'm not saying it's not on the K-3. It is on paper. We'll know when someone is able to objectively test it. This is certainly true, but it is like judging a computer based only on the speed of the processor and not looking at the other components like bus speed, etc. etc. Cameras and computers are similar in that, just because a new processor comes out (or a new sensor) there may not be hardware and software that can take advantage of all of its capabilities for a year or two. That is why the age of the processor (even if it is 1-1/2 year old technology) doesn't matter. The PRIME III can handle the data that sensor puts out. The Nikon D7100 is an example of a camera with the same sensor, but crippled by using the previous generation of image processor in concert with it. (Nikon - and other manufacturers that use the Milbeaut v7 - will catch up, and probably very soon, but there is a reason why Nikon guru Thom Hogan was moaning about how the K-3 meets the needs of a certain demographic of serious photographer that Nikon seems to be neglecting). It's your assumption that it's the only thing I judge it on. The sensor MP was the only thing I mentioned because it's an easy number to reference and defines the camera in many ways. Manufacturers and writers don't say the The K-3 is a PRIME III camera, or the K-3 is a Milbeaut X camera, or 'the K-3 is an 8.3 FPS camera'. They say the K-3 is a 24MP camera because the sensor is the preeminent component. I wasn't planning on reiterating the entire list of specifications. I read Thom Hogan also. As you say he's a Nikon afficiando. Much of what he writes though is criticisms of Nikon in the hopes that it will possibly influence their decision making. I suspect the use of image processor is largely a case of 'what' was available 'when'. Where did you get the impression that I don't think it is among the most important components? Really now Darren. :) [Rereads the message that I was replying to.] Yep. The higher resolution sensor was the ONLY thing you mentioned. Not that being presumptuous and mistaken is entirely foreign to me, however. :) See above. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
You are oversimplifying things a bit Collin. Simplifying yes, but not, I would argue, oversimplifying. Different films have the characteristic differences of changes to sensors and firmware behind them. Certainly nobody would argue that all DSLRs are functional equivalents. What comes after that is how much information can be packed into an image. I agree that the K3 looks to be a real leader. Let's just hope that it is not orphaned like the last 2 outstanding solutions from Pentax -- LX and MZ-S. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
I was reacting to the word leapfrogs in Bill's post. I know you were. The thing that, frankly, bugs me the most about your criticisms, in particular, is that they come from someone who has no personal experience with Pentax bodies since the K-7. What you cannot know, from personal experience, is that Pentax leapfrogged the competition in the APS-C world, in the metric that is important to most people (Image Quality, even at higher ISOs) when they introduced the K-5. In your mind, apparently it didn't happen. In fact, it has been only relatively recently that anything APS-C has even come close to SURPASSING it. And as they do, Pentax appears to be raising the bar yet again with the K-3. (I'm not one of those people who just has to have the latest/greatest of everything, but I'm happy to see that after their ownership change and all of the wondering by the Pentax faithful that the company answers the bell with so strong of a product - according to the specs. I realize it remains to be seen if the K-3 delivers on what its specs promise, but if you can name another APS-C camera ( that has been announced today) that comes out in front of the K-3 even if only in specs, I think we'd all love to hear it. If you can't then the K-3 will become the APS-C front-runner. It will have gotten there by leapfrogging the competition. Nothing wrong (at all) with Bill's choice of words and thus nothing to react to, unless you have a (severely dull) axe to grind. Aside: If the switchable AA filter thing works as intended, it will be something that Nikon and Canon *can't* easily replicate - since they don't have sensor movement as part of their current design. Sony might, some day. I sincerely hope you are happy with your D800E and your Sony NEX-7. They are both fine cameras and I understand your rationale for choosing them (very valid, IMHO). But what I truly don't get is why it makes you happy to urinate in the Cheerios of those who still like Pentax products. What does that do for you? More than anybody on this list, I'm sure that I've gained the most from your leaving Pentax for Nikon/Sony. I've gained your Bigma, your DA 16-45mm, and a BG-4 grip. I'm much obliged. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
I know you were. The thing that, frankly, bugs me the most about your criticisms, in particular, is that they come from someone who has no personal experience with Pentax bodies since the K-7. What you cannot know, from personal experience, is that Pentax leapfrogged the competition in the APS-C world, in the metric that is important to most people (Image Quality, even at higher ISOs) when they introduced the K-5. In your mind, apparently it didn't happen. In fact, it has been only relatively recently that anything APS-C has even come close to SURPASSING it. And as they do, Pentax appears to be raising the bar yet again with the K-3. (I'm not one of those people who just has to have the latest/greatest of everything, but I'm happy to see that after their ownership change and all of the wondering by the Pentax faithful that the company answers the bell with so strong of a product - according to the specs. And I say, so what if I didn't own a K-5? Whether I've owned a K-5 or not has not been the basis for my camera purchasing decisions. You make numerous claims about it's superiority yet I can figure you haven't actually picked up the competition and examined the output scientifically. What criticisms? Not of the K-5. I've never said the K-5 is an inferior camera in it's class. In fact by all accounts it's excellent in terms of high ISO. It seems to me that you take statistics and statements that are in reality a 'splitting of hairs' and then make grandiose statements like 'Pentax leapfrogged the competition in the APS-C world, in the metric that is important to most people (Image Quality, even at higher ISOs) when they introduced the K-5'. dpreview writes in it's K-5 review: The Pentax K-5's noise reduction does a remarkably good job and is pretty much on par with the best performing APS-C camera in low light that we've tested so far, the Nikon D7000 (not that much of a surprise as both cameras are built around the same sensor technology)... Generally the differences in high ISO performance between the APS-C models of this latest generation of digital SLRs is fairly small. The K-5 uses a slightly more contrasty tone-curve than the Nikon D7000 but in terms of detail the difference between the two cameras is marginal. dxomark: gives the K-5 sensor a score of 82 and the D7000, a score of 80. The K-5 is clearly better, right? dxomark goes on to write: Sensor Overall Score is logarithmic. A 5-point difference on the scale corresponds to a gain or loss of sensitivity of 1/3 of a stop. So the difference in real terms is less than 1/6 of a stop. Luminous Landscape explains: Don't get hung up on score differences of only a few points: 5 points is roughly the smallest visible difference in actual photos (DxO says it is equivalent to 1/3 stop). The measurements themselves appear to be repeatable in DxO’s lab to within one or two points Those and other reviews lead me to believe that the statement Pentax leapfrogged the competition is inaccurate and exaggerated. The reality is that the IQ between the K-5 and the D7000 at least, is almost identical and if one does have an edge it's likely invisible to the eye. Pentax leapfrogged their prior model, and the prior generation of sensors, not the competition. I realize it remains to be seen if the K-3 delivers on what its specs promise, but if you can name another APS-C camera ( that has been announced today) that comes out in front of the K-3 even if only in specs, I think we'd all love to hear it. If you can't then the K-3 will become the APS-C front-runner. It will have gotten there by leapfrogging the competition. Nothing wrong (at all) with Bill's choice of words and thus nothing to react to, unless you have a (severely dull) axe to grind. That's plain ridiculous Darren. If I can name another APS-C announced TODAY? What about tomorrow? I don't think the K-3 leapfrogs the competition. It's merely the newest Pentax model, to be followed by newer models by others, and by Ricoh (Pentax). If leapfrogging is something to be proud about then we might as well admit it doesn't really matter because you know how the game works. Aside: If the switchable AA filter thing works as intended, it will be something that Nikon and Canon *can't* easily replicate - since they don't have sensor movement as part of their current design. Sony might, some day. I frankly see that feature as a footnote that would not enter into a purchasing decision. I sincerely hope you are happy with your D800E and your Sony NEX-7. They are both fine cameras and I understand your rationale for choosing them (very valid, IMHO). But what I truly don't get is why it makes you happy to urinate in the Cheerios of those who still like Pentax products. What does that do for you? More than anybody on this list, I'm sure that I've gained the most from your leaving Pentax for Nikon/Sony. I've gained your Bigma, your DA 16-45mm, and a BG-4 grip. I'm much obliged. You're
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 12:57:21PM -0600, Tom C wrote: dpreview writes in it's K-5 review: The Pentax K-5's noise reduction does a remarkably good job and is pretty much on par with the best performing APS-C camera in low light that we've tested so far, the Nikon D7000 (not that much of a surprise as both cameras are built around the same sensor technology)... Generally the differences in high ISO performance between the APS-C models of this latest generation of digital SLRs is fairly small. The K-5 uses a slightly more contrasty tone-curve than the Nikon D7000 but in terms of detail the difference between the two cameras is marginal. For whatever it's worth, the one time that I had a chance to compare a K-5 side by side with a D7000 in a low light situation (in the -2EV to 2EV range), the K-5 vastly outperformed the D7000 in every regard. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Larry, you shoot with a Pentax, so what do YOU know. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 12:57:21PM -0600, Tom C wrote: dpreview writes in it's K-5 review: The Pentax K-5's noise reduction does a remarkably good job and is pretty much on par with the best performing APS-C camera in low light that we've tested so far, the Nikon D7000 (not that much of a surprise as both cameras are built around the same sensor technology)... Generally the differences in high ISO performance between the APS-C models of this latest generation of digital SLRs is fairly small. The K-5 uses a slightly more contrasty tone-curve than the Nikon D7000 but in terms of detail the difference between the two cameras is marginal. For whatever it's worth, the one time that I had a chance to compare a K-5 side by side with a D7000 in a low light situation (in the -2EV to 2EV range), the K-5 vastly outperformed the D7000 in every regard. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Larry wrote: For whatever it's worth, the one time that I had a chance to compare a K-5 side by side with a D7000 in a low light situation (in the -2EV to 2EV range), the K-5 vastly outperformed the D7000 in every regard. I'm not here to argue the merits of a K-5 vs. D7000 Larry. Why would I? But was it a scientific comparison or was it swapping cameras and handling it for a few minutes? Too many variables involved to make meaningful judgement calls (including lens) especially if it was just one time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Oct 10, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: Larry wrote: For whatever it's worth, the one time that I had a chance to compare a K-5 side by side with a D7000 in a low light situation (in the -2EV to 2EV range), the K-5 vastly outperformed the D7000 in every regard. I'm not here to argue the merits of a K-5 vs. D7000 Larry. Why would I? But then you do:-) But was it a scientific comparison or was it swapping cameras and handling it for a few minutes? Too many variables involved to make meaningful judgement calls (including lens) especially if it was just one time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
I'm not here to argue the merits of a K-5 vs. D7000 Larry. Why would I? But then you do:-) That's BS Paul and you know it. :) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 01:55:52PM -0600, Tom C wrote: Larry wrote: For whatever it's worth, the one time that I had a chance to compare a K-5 side by side with a D7000 in a low light situation (in the -2EV to 2EV range), the K-5 vastly outperformed the D7000 in every regard. I'm not here to argue the merits of a K-5 vs. D7000 Larry. Why would I? Because if nobody else were around you'd argue with your own shadow whether the sun was shining. But was it a scientific comparison or was it swapping cameras and handling it for a few minutes? Too many variables involved to make meaningful judgement calls (including lens) especially if it was just one time. It was not a scientific comparison, I was helping a friend learn how to use his new D7000 for photographing blues dancing. I was very excited to have a chance to try it out. I was very tempted to buy one when they came out because it was the first affordable nikon that would work well with my box of nikon mount lenses. We were both using glass that was around f/1.8. It was a very informal comparison, and could have been done a lot more scientifically. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On 10/10/2013 8:15 AM, Tom C wrote: From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill I agree with much of what you say, but leapfrogs??? In some respects yes. Nikon has nothing that specs out to the K3 for example. It's still a 24MP camera that's a year and a half to two years late. That's one metric. I'm sure you know there is more to cameras than pixel count. It would have been nice if Hoya had done more with the brand in the five years or so they had it, but it is what it is. It's amazing that 3 months ago the K-5/K-5II fulfilled everyone's needs and 'why would one want more resolution?', and now it's goo-goo ga-ga over the K-3. I've never said i didn't want a higher res sensor, though whether I need it is another story. What I need is an AF system that works reliably in the studio. Pentax fell down, and fell down badly with the K5 in this regard. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
I wonder if your camera wasn't defective in some way. I haven't done a lot of studio work with the k5, but on those jobs I've done it focused well on the modeling lights. Paul via phone On Oct 10, 2013, at 7:44 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/10/2013 8:15 AM, Tom C wrote: From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill I agree with much of what you say, but leapfrogs??? In some respects yes. Nikon has nothing that specs out to the K3 for example. It's still a 24MP camera that's a year and a half to two years late. That's one metric. I'm sure you know there is more to cameras than pixel count. It would have been nice if Hoya had done more with the brand in the five years or so they had it, but it is what it is. It's amazing that 3 months ago the K-5/K-5II fulfilled everyone's needs and 'why would one want more resolution?', and now it's goo-goo ga-ga over the K-3. I've never said i didn't want a higher res sensor, though whether I need it is another story. What I need is an AF system that works reliably in the studio. Pentax fell down, and fell down badly with the K5 in this regard. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On 10/10/2013 5:53 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I wonder if your camera wasn't defective in some way. I haven't done a lot of studio work with the k5, but on those jobs I've done it focused well on the modeling lights. It's definitely defective. It was a known issue with the camera when it was introduced. The camera front focuses really badly under low tungsten illumination, unfortunately, it isn't consistent, so dialing in a focus bias doesn't help. One picture might need a -6, the very next one a -10 isn't enough. The workaround has been easy enough, actually easier in some ways. I use live view with AF off the sensor set to face detect. It's an embarrassingly easy way to secure good focus. Not every camera showed it badly, and they did a couple of firmware fixes that were supposed to straighten it out, though mine never did. I have a feeling that Hoya low balled the components for the K5, and mine just happens to be one of the really bad ones. topic change One of the reasons I am quite excited by the Ricoh buy out is because Ricoh wants the camera division, Hoya never did, and made no bones about it. My feeling is that the K5II is the camera the K5 should have been, had Hoya not been trying to sqeeze every last Yuan out of their suppliers, and the K3 is definitely setting a nice precedent as the first Ricoh developed Pentax DSLR. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
I not goo-goo gah-gah over 24mp. Everything in my image processing system is sized for making at most 300dpi 13x19 prints, and even that will severely strain the system. Any processing out of the ordinary with a K20D file, (about 240dpi at that print size), can take a very long time to complete in Photoshop, and those are files that only expand out to about 80meg in memory when being processed. That said if I use a lowish ISO and get the exposure right, so that the file doesn't need a lot of processing and keep in mind the limitations of my particular printer when processing the file, I get really nice printed results. What I'd really like to see is a K-5III with a lot of the improvements that the K-3 has but without the headphone bump and a 16mp image processing train. Oh, yea, you if they could put the SR switch back instead of the movie stuff that would be nice, and an aperture simulator as long as I'm asking for the improbable. That's not to say that I wouldn't like to see a 24mp full frame Pentax K-1 with full K mount support, I just don't really need one at this point in time. On 10/10/2013 10:15 AM, Tom C wrote: From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Pentax has been on it's way out since I was selling cameras 30 years ago. They went from being an industry leader to a wannabe in one generation of cameras. All of a sudden, they have something to market that, in many ways, leapfrogs the competition rather than being two steps behind with their best. There is no sarcasm in looking at what they have come up with here and saying they have more on the ball now than they have had for nearly three decades. It seems to have worked out for Pentax, finally. bill I agree with much of what you say, but leapfrogs??? It's still a 24MP camera that's a year and a half to two years late. It's amazing that 3 months ago the K-5/K-5II fulfilled everyone's needs and 'why would one want more resolution?', and now it's goo-goo ga-ga over the K-3. Tom C. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On 10/9/2013 8:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. I think that's when you realize that it's Ricoh and not Pentax Mark -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 08:46:33PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 8:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. I think that's when you realize that it's Ricoh and not Pentax OMG! Pentax is DOOOomed! -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On 10/9/2013 9:03 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 08:46:33PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 8:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. I think that's when you realize that it's Ricoh and not Pentax OMG! Pentax is DOOOomed! I think the Pentax brand has more going for it now than it has had in years. thanks to Ricoh... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 09:42:36PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 9:03 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 08:46:33PM -0400, Mark C wrote: On 10/9/2013 8:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. I think that's when you realize that it's Ricoh and not Pentax OMG! Pentax is DOOOomed! I think the Pentax brand has more going for it now than it has had in years. thanks to Ricoh... Watch the sarchasm, that first step is a doozy. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: I seem to have stepped into an alternate universe...
Quoting Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com: Pentax marketing is being PRAISED? http://petapixel.com/2013/10/09/attention-camera-marketing-departments-tell-sensor/ Pinch me, I must be dreaming. The author of the article might be impressed but that doesn't seem to have much support in the comments. -- Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
