Re: OT: LIONS

[John Francis]

On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 09:53:50AM -0700, Nolan Hinshaw wrote:
> On Jul 23, 2022, at 07:31, Alan C  wrote:
> > 
> > Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
> > Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a 
> > waterhole.
> > I have posted the link so you can see her submission:
> > 
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/606970746122355/permalink/2289765277842885/
> 
> Note that three of the four are "Ho-Hum", but the cub nearest mama seems to 
> have noticed the photographer...

Oh, I think they've all noticed the photographer (cub #1 certainly has), but 
gettinmg a drink is more important.
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Re: OT: LIONS

[ann sanfedele]

gorgeous!

On 7/23/2022 10:31 AM, Alan C wrote:

Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a 
waterhole.

I have posted the link so you can see her submission:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/606970746122355/permalink/2289765277842885/ 



She mostly uses her K5 with a Sigma 170-500 DG.

Alan C
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Re: OT: LIONS

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 23.07.22 um 16:31 schrieb Alan C:

Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a
waterhole.


A great shot indeed.

Ralf

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Re: OT: LIONS

[Paul Stenquist]

Excellent! And I see your group offers a nice award!

Paul

> On Jul 23, 2022, at 10:31 AM, Alan C  wrote:
> 
> Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
> Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a 
> waterhole.
> I have posted the link so you can see her submission:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/606970746122355/permalink/2289765277842885/
> 
> She mostly uses her K5 with a Sigma 170-500 DG.
> 
> Alan C
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Re: OT: LIONS

[Daniel J. Matyola]

WOW! What a great shot.

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 10:31 AM Alan C  wrote:

> Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
> Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a
> waterhole.
> I have posted the link so you can see her submission:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/606970746122355/permalink/2289765277842885/
>
> She mostly uses her K5 with a Sigma 170-500 DG.
>
> Alan C
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OT: LIONS

[Alan C]

Karin van Zyl is a member of PENTAX PHOTOGRAPHERS SOUTH AFRICA.
Here is a link to a recent photo of hers - A Lioness with 3 cubs at a 
waterhole.

I have posted the link so you can see her submission:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/606970746122355/permalink/2289765277842885/

She mostly uses her K5 with a Sigma 170-500 DG.

Alan C
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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Darren Addy]

A story The Onion just couldn't ignore:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lions-tigers-killed-in-ohio,26428/

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Sessoms]

From: frank theriault

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:23 AM, P. J. Alling  
wrote:

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
about.

If I decide to kill a fellow human being, it's more than a bad
decision it's also (in most cases) illegal.  Most of us agree that
laws that restrict our right to kill other people are good and
necessary.

I guess the question in the aftermath of this case is "what legal
restrictions or regulations ought to be in place to protect society
from wild exotic animals from running loose and creating mayhem,
damage, injury and death?"

Every law is a balancing act so one must weigh the right to public
safety against the right to house dangerous animals.  Then there's
considering the rights of the animals (a bit radical here, I'll admit)
to be kept and exploited without their consent (since they're not
capable of communicating their consent or lack thereof to us humans).

I would lean on the side of public safety and not keeping wild animals
penned.  I see no reason why anyone needs to have these sorts of
animals, unless they've been rescued from small private zoos or
private collections or labs or the like, and even in that case such
sanctuaries should be very heavily regulated.

If we allow private collections and zoos, the trade and exploitation
of these poor wild beasts will continue and we'll have more situations
like this, or like ones that we read about every so often where some
small roadside private zoo is found to have sick and mistreated
animals.


No law can protect society from the deliberate criminal lawlessness of 
those intent on committing murder.


I agree that these kind of operations should be well regulated, but 
legal restrictions & regulations can only provide protection against 
negligence. Laws can require the owner of exotic animals to provide 
adequate safeguards to secure the animals for the protection of both the 
community and the animals themselves.


But there's no way the law can prevent someone from deliberately opening 
the cages and setting the animals loose on society.



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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Francis]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 01:57:59PM -0400, John Sessoms wrote:
> 
> But, it's not unfair to question whether the authorities even
> bothered to look very hard to see if there might be other workable
> alternatives to slaughter. There's certainly little indication of
> such in any of the news reports I've seen.

Then I suggest you try watching a different news channel.

I've seen interviews with the local chief of police (or somesuch)
justifying their actions because it was getting dark, and animals
were  attempting to run for cover.  As others have pointed out,
it would be pretty hard to justify anything they did that allowed
a wild animal to escape and potentially harm local residents.

I've also seen interviews with Jack Hanna (well known animal handler,
and director of the nearby Columbus Zoo) supporting the police action.

I've gleaned this reporting from my local San Francisco CBS TV outlet,
BBC World News America, the San Jose Mercury News, and the Internet.
None of these sources could be characterised as right-wing; in fact
most of them are often named as part of the liberal media conspiracy.


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Steven Desjardins]

I saw that they had tried the tranq dart on the tiger and it didn't
work.  Once that starts to happen, they are going to use live rounds
to err on the side of public safety.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Ken Waller  wrote:
> The news I've heard said he complied with the state requirements for exotic
> animals - as loose as they might be.
>
> Also that the cops initially shot some of the escapees with tranquilizers
> but they had little effect and the decision was made to take them out rather
> than put human life at risk.
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
>
> - Original Message - From: "P. J. Alling"
> 
>
> Subject: Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears
>
>
>> People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
>> about.  Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
>> the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of the
>> animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/2011 12:15 AM, John Francis wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:50:38PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which
>>>> decisions had to be made.
>>>>
>>>> The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner,
>>>> for not thinking any further out of his mind than his own state.
>>>
>>> Well, there's also the viewpoint that it should be necessary to get
>>> a permit (with real, hard-to-answer qualification questions) before
>>> being allowed to house that many wild animals on your property.
>>>
>>> I understand that this comes up fair and square against the doctrine
>>> of removing excessive government regulation of private individuals.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to
>> avoid a lengthily search.
>>
>>
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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Sessoms]

From: Keith Whaley

P. J. Alling wrote:

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
about. Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of
the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.


The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows
why. The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and
let his animals out?




The owner didn't just up and die for no known reason, he opened the 
gates to free the animals and then committed suicide; shot himself in 
the head.




Makes no sense except that at least one other party was involved and it
seems to have been a badly misguided attempt to bring attention to the
animals' plight. They didn't let themselves out.

The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can
HE be called irresponsible?




He had been in prison on weapons charges - possessions of unlicensed 
machine guns - and was just released in September. He apparently had one 
or more employees who cared for the animals while he was incarcerated.




The authorities were trigger happy? They had a bunch of wild animals
running loose, in a heavily populated area with a lot of school children
around. They had no way of knowing whether this menangerie was truly
dangerous or not, but...they did the right thing.

Had anyone been killed or maimed because the 'authorities' didn't take
fast enough action, the hubbub would have been loud and clear. "You are
NOT doing your job!!!"

You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.



I don't have to like the outcome to understand why the authorities felt 
they had no other option.


But, it's not unfair to question whether the authorities even bothered 
to look very hard to see if there might be other workable alternatives 
to slaughter. There's certainly little indication of such in any of the 
news reports I've seen.


And, it's clear the owner intentionally set the animals free hoping they 
would rampage across the area and attack local residents before being 
killed.


The owner wasn't just irresponsible, he was a homicidal sociopath!




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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[frank theriault]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:23 AM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
> about.

If I decide to kill a fellow human being, it's more than a bad
decision it's also (in most cases) illegal.  Most of us agree that
laws that restrict our right to kill other people are good and
necessary.

I guess the question in the aftermath of this case is "what legal
restrictions or regulations ought to be in place to protect society
from wild exotic animals from running loose and creating mayhem,
damage, injury and death?"

Every law is a balancing act so one must weigh the right to public
safety against the right to house dangerous animals.  Then there's
considering the rights of the animals (a bit radical here, I'll admit)
to be kept and exploited without their consent (since they're not
capable of communicating their consent or lack thereof to us humans).

I would lean on the side of public safety and not keeping wild animals
penned.  I see no reason why anyone needs to have these sorts of
animals, unless they've been rescued from small private zoos or
private collections or labs or the like, and even in that case such
sanctuaries should be very heavily regulated.

If we allow private collections and zoos, the trade and exploitation
of these poor wild beasts will continue and we'll have more situations
like this, or like ones that we read about every so often where some
small roadside private zoo is found to have sick and mistreated
animals.

cheers,
frank


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Ken Waller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Whaley" 

Subject: Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears



P. J. Alling wrote:

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
about. Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of
the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.


The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows 
why.


News here says he commited suicide - shot himself after he openned the 
cages.


The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and

let his animals out?
Makes no sense except that at least one other party was involved and it 
seems to have been a badly misguided attempt to bring attention to the 
animals' plight. They didn't let themselves out.


The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can 
HE be called irresponsible?


The authorities were trigger happy? They had a bunch of wild animals 
running loose, in a heavily populated area with a lot of school children 
around. They had no way of knowing whether this menangerie was truly 
dangerous or not, but...they did the right thing.


Had anyone been killed or maimed because the 'authorities' didn't take 
fast enough action, the hubbub would have been loud and clear. "You are 
NOT doing your job!!!"


You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.

keith whaley



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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Ken Waller]

The news I've heard said he complied with the state requirements for exotic 
animals - as loose as they might be.


Also that the cops initially shot some of the escapees with tranquilizers 
but they had little effect and the decision was made to take them out rather 
than put human life at risk.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "P. J. Alling" 


Subject: Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears


People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all 
about.  Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case 
the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of the 
animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.



On 10/20/2011 12:15 AM, John Francis wrote:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:50:38PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote:
Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which 
decisions had to be made.


The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner,
for not thinking any further out of his mind than his own state.

Well, there's also the viewpoint that it should be necessary to get
a permit (with real, hard-to-answer qualification questions) before
being allowed to house that many wild animals on your property.

I understand that this comes up fair and square against the doctrine
of removing excessive government regulation of private individuals.





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avoid a lengthily search.



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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Sessoms]

Made me very angry. Mainly frustration because the guy who's responsible 
is already beyond retribution.


From: Ann Sanfedele

Very upsetting.

ann

On 10/19/2011 18:25, Steven Desjardins wrote:

That's just sad.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

Really fucked up story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[P. J. Alling]

I don't know, I doubt he was thinking that far in advance.  He decided 
to kill himself but couldn't leave the animals caged.  You  see that 
when unthinking animal rights activists simply release captive animals.  
They don't consider what will happen to them once they're released.


On 10/20/2011 1:05 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
I wish it had been possible to recapture the animals, but I understand 
why the local law enforcement didn't think they could do that.


I don't like what the local law enforcement did. They didn't think 
they had any other choice. All of the choices were bad, so I won't 
fault them for making the least bad choice to protect the local people.


All the blame resides with the guy who owned the place. I expect he 
intended the animals would be killed, but that they would kill 
innocent people first.



From: Joseph McAllister
Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which 
decisions had to be made.


The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner, for not thinking 
any further out of his mind than his own state.


Sad situation, bad outcome.



On Oct 19, 2011, at 12:17 , John Sessoms wrote:


Really fucked up story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html 








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lengthily search.


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Sessoms]

I wish it had been possible to recapture the animals, but I understand 
why the local law enforcement didn't think they could do that.


I don't like what the local law enforcement did. They didn't think they 
had any other choice. All of the choices were bad, so I won't fault them 
for making the least bad choice to protect the local people.


All the blame resides with the guy who owned the place. I expect he 
intended the animals would be killed, but that they would kill innocent 
people first.



From: Joseph McAllister

Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which decisions 
had to be made.

The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner, for not thinking any 
further out of his mind than his own state.

Sad situation, bad outcome.



On Oct 19, 2011, at 12:17 , John Sessoms wrote:


Really fucked up story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html



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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Stan Halpin]

On Oct 20, 2011, at 12:15 AM, John Francis wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:50:38PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote:
>> Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which 
>> decisions had to be made.
>> 
>> The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner,
>> for not thinking any further out of his mind than his own state.
> 
> Well, there's also the viewpoint that it should be necessary to get
> a permit (with real, hard-to-answer qualification questions) before
> being allowed to house that many wild animals on your property.
> 
> I understand that this comes up fair and square against the doctrine
> of removing excessive government regulation of private individuals.
> 

When my wife was in the Missouri legislature, the son of one of her 
constituents was bitten by a monkey that had escaped from it's cage at the 
house next door. The son became infected with some exotic disease which led to 
extensive and expensive hospital time (with eventual full recovery). The 
monkey's owner and/or their insurance company eventually provided  financial 
compensation, but the constituents nevertheless enlisted Meg in a mini-crusade 
to strengthen the licensing requirements for owning exotic animals and 
clarifying owner's liability in the event that harm was caused by such an 
animal. The legislation did not get far, there was a huge backlash from 
conservatives who pointed out that the Bible said that they had dominion over 
beasts of the field etc. and they didn't need no government telling them what 
they could own or what they could or should do with the animals they owned. The 
same constellation of attitudes that maintains Missouri as the nation's premier 
spot for puppy mills.

stan
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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Ann Sanfedele]

KEith, he shot himself after letting all the animals out!

ann

On 10/20/2011 07:14, Keith Whaley wrote:

P. J. Alling wrote:

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
about. Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of
the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.


The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows
why. The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and
let his animals out?
Makes no sense except that at least one other party was involved and it
seems to have been a badly misguided attempt to bring attention to the
animals' plight. They didn't let themselves out.

The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can
HE be called irresponsible?

The authorities were trigger happy? They had a bunch of wild animals
running loose, in a heavily populated area with a lot of school children
around. They had no way of knowing whether this menangerie was truly
dangerous or not, but...they did the right thing.

Had anyone been killed or maimed because the 'authorities' didn't take
fast enough action, the hubbub would have been loud and clear. "You are
NOT doing your job!!!"

You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.

keith whaley




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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Steven Desjardins]

If a single person had died or was even badly injured by these animals
because the police hesitated to kill them, the police would have been
destroyed in the court of public opinion.  I wish they could have
figured out a way to capture the animals, but that is beyond what most
municipalities are willing to PAY for the standard operating
capabilities of the police. Given the tight money these days, no can
expect the cops to invest a large chunk of their budget into tiger
management unless they are explicitly told but the public authorities.
 Given what they did, it's just a different group of people yelling at
them.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Keith Whaley  wrote:
> P. J. Alling wrote:
>>
>> People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
>> about. Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
>> the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of
>> the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.
>
> The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows why.
> The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and let his
> animals out?
> Makes no sense except that at least one other party was involved and it
> seems to have been a badly misguided attempt to bring attention to the
> animals' plight. They didn't let themselves out.
>
> The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can HE
> be called irresponsible?
>
> The authorities were trigger happy? They had a bunch of wild animals running
> loose, in a heavily populated area with a lot of school children around.
> They had no way of knowing whether this menangerie was truly dangerous or
> not, but...they did the right thing.
>
> Had anyone been killed or maimed because the 'authorities' didn't take fast
> enough action, the hubbub would have been loud and clear. "You are NOT doing
> your job!!!"
>
> You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.
>
> keith whaley
>
>
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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Keith Whaley  wrote:

> The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows why.

All of the reports I've seen, including the current version of the NY
Times story, indicate that the keeper released the animals himself,
and then committed suicide.

> The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and let his
> animals out?

Because he wasn't right in the head.

> The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can HE
> be called irresponsible?

"Mr. Thompson [the keeper] was released from a federal prison three
weeks ago after a serving a year for possessing illegal firearms."

> You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.

Indeed.

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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Keith Whaley]

P. J. Alling wrote:

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all
about. Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this case
the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner of
the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.


The keeper of that wild animal compound just up and DIED, nobody knows 
why. The gate was found open. Why would a keeper just open the gates and 
let his animals out?
Makes no sense except that at least one other party was involved and it 
seems to have been a badly misguided attempt to bring attention to the 
animals' plight. They didn't let themselves out.


The owner had shown no evidence of malfeasance prior to this, so how can 
HE be called irresponsible?


The authorities were trigger happy? They had a bunch of wild animals 
running loose, in a heavily populated area with a lot of school children 
around. They had no way of knowing whether this menangerie was truly 
dangerous or not, but...they did the right thing.


Had anyone been killed or maimed because the 'authorities' didn't take 
fast enough action, the hubbub would have been loud and clear. "You are 
NOT doing your job!!!"


You might want to rethink your opinion before throwing blame about.

keith whaley


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[P. J. Alling]

People are allowed to make bad decisions, that's what being free is all 
about.  Hopefully they'll make more good decisions than bad. In this 
case the authorities seem to have been a bit trigger happy and the owner 
of the animals seems to have been more than a little irresponsible.



On 10/20/2011 12:15 AM, John Francis wrote:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:50:38PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote:

Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which decisions 
had to be made.

The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner,
for not thinking any further out of his mind than his own state.

Well, there's also the viewpoint that it should be necessary to get
a permit (with real, hard-to-answer qualification questions) before
being allowed to house that many wild animals on your property.

I understand that this comes up fair and square against the doctrine
of removing excessive government regulation of private individuals.





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Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Doug Brewer]

On 10/20/11 1:00 AM, Darren Addy wrote:

I believe firmly that:
When lions and tigers and bears are outlawed, only outlaws will have
lions and tigers and bears.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska



earlier tonight I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of, "I 
wish the Ohio cops would quit pretending hunting exotic animals in the 
streets of the city wasn't completely awesome."


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Darren Addy]

I believe firmly that:
When lions and tigers and bears are outlawed, only outlaws will have
lions and tigers and bears.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Francis]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:50:38PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote:
> Chilled me somewhat too. But I understand the parameters under which 
> decisions had to be made.
> 
> The blame lies, in my mind, entirely with the owner,
> for not thinking any further out of his mind than his own state.

Well, there's also the viewpoint that it should be necessary to get
a permit (with real, hard-to-answer qualification questions) before
being allowed to house that many wild animals on your property.

I understand that this comes up fair and square against the doctrine
of removing excessive government regulation of private individuals.


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Ann Sanfedele]

Very upsetting.

ann

On 10/19/2011 18:25, Steven Desjardins wrote:

That's just sad.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

Really fucked up story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html


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Re: OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[Steven Desjardins]

That's just sad.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> Really fucked up story:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html
>
>
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OT: Lions, Tigers and Bears

[John Sessoms]

Really fucked up story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html


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